The first-place Mets (83–62) welcome the second-place Phillies (77–69) for the first game of a three-game series in Shea Stadium tonight.
The Lineup
- SS Jose Reyes
- 2B Luis Castillo
- 3B David Wright
- CF Carlos Beltran
- LF Moises Alou
- 1B Jeff Conine
- C Paul Lo Duca
- RF Lastings Milledge
- SP Tom Glavine
The Pitchers
Jamie Moyer (13-11, 5.23 ERA) starts for the Phillies. The 44-year-old left-hander has allowed eight runs in 19 innings in three starts against the Mets this season, during which he is 0–2.
Tom Glavine (13-6, 3.95) will start for the Mets. He has allowed just two runs in 20 innings over his last three starts. He is 2-0 with a 2.08 ERA in four starts against the Phillies this season.
The Notes
The Phillies are seven losses behind the Mets for first place in the NL East.
The Phillies have won five games in a row. The Mets are 10–2 since being swept by the Phillies in Philadelphia.
Jose Reyes is 6-for-12 with four runs scored in his last three games.
The Bleachers: For a live chat, head over to The Hot Foot Bleachers. …enjoy…and as always, let’s go mets…
{ 189 comments }
Huh? Phils are 3-2 in their last 5 games and 5-5 in their last 10, and lost 8-2 and 12-0 on Tue and Wed.
I’m pretty sure the Phillies have not won 5 in a row. Actually, they have won one in a row because they got clobbered by the Rockies on Tuesday and Wednesday before bouncing back yesterday.
i think he meant to write…5 in a row..VS THE METS!
Probably meant they’ve one 5 in a row against the mets…
*won
Let’s end this nonsense tonight! Big night from Glavine.
Time to dominante, kids!
Time to make the Phillies forget about the Wild Card.
Way to make fun of the Phils Matt…..5 in a row hehehe Then they woke up!
The only thing I would like better than ending the f*llies season with a sweep, would be to sweep them, then have them back into the wild card on the poor play of the other contenders, and then sweep them in the NLCS….
I hope they beat the hell out of the Phillies this weekend, I’m going to the game on Sunday and hope to see the final nail in the coffin for the division and possibly an end to their wild card hopes. Philly fans have some of the biggest inferiority complex, which I imagine is an extension of how they feel about their city’s largest accomplishment coming back in the 18th century. Since then their city has seen New York become a much more important place of commerce and DC take over as the epicenter of the national government.
The E-A-G-L-E-S chants need to stop, no one is impressed that you can spell your own team’s name. I really don’t care about basketball but I know the Sixers pretty much gave up for the rest of the decade when they traded Iverson. The Flyers were commonly known as some of the biggest choke artists of the NHL the past decade. I take a certain amount of delight that each year we’ve won the division, Philly has been second and by a wide margin at that.
So let’s prove once and for all who’s the team to beat and send them back down I-95 thinking what their excuse for 2008 will be, because they’re not going win then either.
I can’t stand the Jose chant that they’re doing in Philly now…
using J-Roll in place of Jose…then again those fans are the same retards that iceballed Santa!
BOO-YA!
MVP MVP MVP !!!!!!!!!
yes sir! d-dubb!
RALPH KINER!
that K was awful. Reyes had every right to argue. Awful!
That was some BS, better come back to us later!
If Glavine gets the same strikzone for the rest of the game, he’ll pitch a shutout.
Look at those rusty knees run.
Luis makes this lineup very functional
Now that’s 2007 New York Mets baseball! Luis steals 2… Beltran walks… Alou with a rope!
Keep on keepin’ on boys…..boy I’ll be glad when Conine is back to being a bench player…come back heathly and hearty Carlos!
Alou…the strength to be there…almost
Gotta be honest here. Conine has been flat out terrible. In fact, he looks like a Julio Franco clone.
Isn’t it great to be able to laugh about mustaches/uni-brows in the middle of september and a pennant race!
#$#@$ING Chase Utley!
Keep it tied Tommy….
…thank you….go get em back boys….
76 pitches through 7… yikes!
Keep us tied….jeez, these tight games with the Phils will wear on ya!
Yes, but I’m saying Lo Duca is not calling good pitches. The pitch to Utley was awful. Everything he called for Burrell was right in his wheelhouse.
MVP!!!…I’ll be damned!
DWright is the Mayor
It’s time that Wright be recognized for his defense. Last year he was shaky on some of his throws (Delgado didn’t help much) but this year he’s been as good as any Met 3rd basemen has been.
Time to make the runners count!
WE NEED TO SCORE….this bullpen is giving me ulcers….
Get the bunt down rook!
reyes has to be gone on the first pitch right?
or not, what the heck man?!
Will someone please tell Willie what a suicide squeeze is.
i guess they’re scared of Wright
come on Beltran….something here
OMG – I think we need Mota to bean someone next half inning. But that is all we need Mota for.
jesus!
I don’t care what his stats are…Beltran might be the one guy I don’t want up in a clutch spot.
hmm….Beltran….bases juiced….breaking ball…..the wiff
that would be nice metschamps…a 95 mph right between the numbers on pat the bat….but in this situation, w/howard up next i dunno if i would actually do it.
At least Beltran got the bat off his shoulder this time.
Seriously, this guy either strikes out or hits a ball REALLY hard. And the latter usually comes when it matters the least.
I hope we hold ‘em cause there went our shot to score until at least the 10th.
when he hits lefthanded, a good curve will get him almost every time. it certainly sucks, doesnt it?
No matter what, this is a really great game – edge-of-your-seat good. And go Wags, wiff the Met Killer.. woo hoo
do I smell some Marlon heroics?
Prediction: Heilman comes in. Gets 2 quick outs, walks a guy, gives up a double or home run to give the Phillies the lead. Alou flies out to left, Conine singles, Lo Duca grounds into a double play, game over.
I’ll gladly eat crow after that inning.
Or you could just take that negative wipe over to the Yankees/Redsox game and leave us ‘Believers” alone, eh?!
*vibe* not wipe
K…..K……K
gotta love that slider
Way to go Wagner
beautiful, billy.
Country Time!
welcome back, Billy… that was filthy!
I think Wagner is back in shape.
Wagner was throwing heat. He is pumped.
Say what you want about our boy #13 but if you piss him off he will get the best of you next time around. Alou…time to end this buddy!
Good on ya, Paulie. Emmel’s been a blind turd all night
Since when did umpires go after the batter, I mean gimme a break. LoDuca said something to him shouldn’t he have just turned away instead of jawing with Paul?
yeah, and he cursed at him, which is blatantly against the rules.
i’ve had it with these friggin umps…you cant say ANYTHING to them without getting rung up immediately
Ballsh*t
Willie needs to get thrown out there. That guy has had a chip on his shoulder all game. He gave Reyes lip early on a ball on the chalk of the other batter’s box.
Randolph the Genius should have bunted with Castillo in the 8th. You have a guy who is faster than Reyes on 3rd, 1 out, and a great bunter. Put pressure on the Phillies and not your hitters. Of course Willie is waiting for the 5-run homer.
Alright, I’ve blown off this date as long as I possibly can… Lets Go Mets!!! Everyone have a great evening and look forward to Petey tomorrow.
Heilman kills me!
THIS UMPIRE IS FRIGGIN GARBAGE.
What in the world are we doing out there?!?!?!?!
I’m so sick of this bullpen. Enough. Step up big once in a big game for christ’s sake. ENOUGH.
Jus throwin this out there. i woulda thought about keepin wagner in.
I personally hated the 6out save opportunity last attempt that burned him against the phillies but this is a different situation. He only threw 12 pitches, the bottom of the lineup is up instead of the middle, and after 3 Ks and loduca tossing, he can’t possibly be more pumped up.
as im typing heilmans got 2nd and 3rd w/1out…..either way theres always a negative to it.
These darn Phillies, Mets just need to win ONE GAME….wait, I’ve said this before….right?
HEILMAN SUCKS!!!!
Sounds like the air has been let out of the Stadium, We cannot lose this damn game. I really loathe the Phillies – more than the Braves.
this is not do or die, this game isn’t really that important for the mets…its huge for the phillies, but why the sudden change from “great game regardless” to “fire wilie cuz heilman threw the ball away” calm down
thrilledge, green, reyes….sounds like some runs
Ok, we can ONE frickin run this inning right?
I like Heilman alot but he is just so friggin unpredictable. At least Mota you know you know what you get most of the time. Heilman is always a mystery – but I still like his stuff.
It does come back to the bases loaded inning for the Mets and no runs scored – that will be turning point for me
……besides, of course, the Heilman inning. Just not our night
How is that a strike?
Did anybody really think anything else would happen after that 9th inning? Phils are the new Braves. This bullpen sucks in big spots
I can’t wait until Heilman isn’t on this team anymore!
This game sucked. They blew a 3-2 lead and couldn’t hit a whiff off the worst pitching staff in the NL.
And this is a surprise to you?
With Lohse and Eaton coming up, it’s going to be another battle. Too bad Hamels isn’t around. I’d have more confidence going against him.
At some point we have to get to their bullpen right? Just win one game guys, just one and move on to Florida. All the pre-game talk about revenge and blah blah blah, just win ONE of these games.
We’ll get to their bullpen when we’re winning 5-0. They’ll bring in 5 guys and they’ll give up 6 or 7 runs. But in 1-run games, their bullpen just destroys the Mets. Probably because all the Mets do is strikeout or pop up the first pitch.
Of course, the wild card race is more important for the Phillies now. Pretty sure the Mets have wrapped up the division even if Phillies sweep.
I so hate the Phillies – their arrogant claims at the beginning of the season (we are the team to beat) just will always get on my last nerve till the season is over. Why can’t we beat these a$$ clowns???
The mets suck, fire willie, cut heilman, beltran is a bum, there goes the season
ooo wait, the mets have a 6 game lead on the East goin into september 15th with one of the best if not the best lineups in the national league, a solid pitching staff, and oh did i mention a 6 game lead on the east…..one more time thats an 83 an 63 record, 6game lead on the east.
come back down to earth, its friday, have a drink or 2, let it go, wake up 2morrow with a 6 game lead in our division
I think it is 5.5, but who’s counting?
6 in the loss
this guys got it right…
Hope the Phils celebration was low key enough for LoDuca, if he was watching from wherever you go after ejected.
Touche
In a way, not the worst result. Big picture, it is better for the Phils to get the WC than the Pads. Who really wants the Pads over the Cubs?
terrible looking game. They reverted to most of th ebad habits of mid summer (except for the lousy SP).
You can point to specific breakdowns that cost them, but the big issue is getting shut down (5 hits?) against a bunch of stiffs that the est of the league feasts on.
Now I expect Eaton to go 7 tomorrow, giving up 1 run!
But, at the end when they had the cahnce, Castillo not getting a ball in play with 1 out man on 3rd was a killer. They guy can’t do anything with the bat other than ground balls, and making contact (no power), and with Gomez on , just about anything scores him.
The other goat is Defilice. 1st he muffs the foul pop, then, on the botched sacrifice, he just stood there while Heilmann vapor locked. Heilmanns back was to the play, the C was looking at it. His job is to point at first and scream to go there so Heilmann doesn’t think of doing something stupid, since he had no idea whee the runner was.
Instead, he just stood there holding his mask.
Should we blame DiFelice or LoDuca for losing his cool and getting thrown out in the first place?
This game is Heilman’s loss . . . this guy should absolutely be a starting pitching – for the darn Orioles. Get rid of him!
I feel the Mets had NO drive to win and have Killer Instinct in their own park. Their motivation has to come from within and from direction of their leader. Their is weak and shows no emotion and feeling to drive them. How come Willie ( I play AL baseball) Randolph, didnot go out and argue that 2 of his batters were hit in the same inning. He should have argued more about the poor strike calls being made. When he had Lasting on base, with Gomez at bat, how come he didnot let Lasting steal. Instead, they failed to score that inning. I still believe he needs to change the lineup and take Jose out of the lead off spot. At this point let him bat 7th. Willie cost them this game due to poor managing, poor motivation and having a killer instinct to win. I am still a believer that the Mets down fall will be because of Pea Brain Willie!!!
I think these Mets haven’t had the “killer” instinct all year – they had an opportunity to bury the Phillies this weekend by taking revenge for the 4 game sweep 12 games ago. Can we put the Phillies away . . . Please. Make them go AWAY!!!
Willie is the only goat – not castillo
Mets sure looked like world chumps tonight. Lo Duca didn’t complain about the low strike when Burrell got 3 called strikes on balls that were just as low as the Lo Puke-a strikeout. Mutts at the ballpark were matched by the Mutts on the field!!
The Eagles, 76ers, Flyers and the sillies all suck!! Take your 10,000 plus loses and go choke on a cheese steak………one last thing – Rocky sucks too
I have some words to sum up the poor manager they have!!!
WILLIE HAS TO GO, SEND HIM BACK TO THE SKANKEES!!! HE SHOWS NO EMOTION AND LACKS SENSE OF URGENCY AND KILLER INSTINCT. HE NEEDS TO GO!!! HE IS HORRIBLE!!! HE HAS NO GAME PLAN OR STRATEGY TO MANUFACTURE RUNS. WHEN IS HE GOING TO START GOING CRAZY ON HIS PLAYERS WHEN THEY KEEP HITTING THE FIRST PITCH. DO THEY BELIEVE IN LETTING THE PITCHER THROW SOME PITCHES. IT ALL FALLS BACK ON HIS LACK OF EXPERIENCE AND MOTIVATION!!! WILLIE HAS TO GO ,WILLIE HAS TO GO ,WILLIE HAS TO GO ,WILLIE HAS TO GO ,WILLIE HAS TO GO ,WILLIE HAS TO GO ,WILLIE HAS TO GO ,WILLIE HAS TO GO ,WILLIE HAS TO GO ,WILLIE HAS TO GO ,WILLIE HAS TO GO
I dont see how u can blame this game on willie, they got beat…fair and square, it happens
sheaboy–sorry to break it to you, but the Mutts aren’t going far in the playoffs. Phils have had way too many injuries to overcome, but your old and overpaid bunch of whiners will flame out in the playoffs. Can’t decide which is worse–your bullpen or your brain cramp of a manager.
have fun with your 10,000 losses phillyman . . . they’ll keep accumulating –
Go beat the Rockies!
Hey Adrian – You know as well as your whole city does, that the Phillies won’t even make the playoffs and if they do, they will just blow it somehow – just like Bitch Williams…………………….regardless, you must be lost…………..go to your own blog (probaley dont have one) …………go burn TO jerseys and cry yourself to sleep
Well sorry to break it to you phillyman but no matter how good or bad the Mets, the Phillies are worse. You see it goes by the standings, not by what one little philly fan says. We;ve also got a better bullpen. And a better manager. So even if they are bad, yours are worse.
Mets have had just as many injuries as the Phillies. So don’t try the stupid injury sob story. :cry:.
Jealousy from a typical Philly fan…
But anyways Heilman is going to be a huge problem in the playoffs…he ruined it last year and there’s no reason he won’t do that.
WRIGHT FOR MVP! Huge HR in the game and he had to get hit in a huge situation for damn Beltran…tough inning there
Glavine’s had a lot of tough luck this year. One mistake to Utley and another ND, and a team loss on top of that.
We gotta start beating Philadelphia…it’s tough loss after tough loss…we could’ve won each of the last 4 games…the final 3 in Philly were all close and heartbreaking…and this one was no exception
Mets bullpen is shaky to say the least…………Over the next 2 weeks, Mets should give Humber, Pelfrey & Collazo a shot – maybe we can catch lightining in a bottle – a la Joba
Mota and Sosa do not inspire confidence – I still have faith in heilman (not sure why)
Assuming Willie doesn’t blow it & Mets make the playoffs – I would only go with 10 or 11 pitchers
4 starters (assuming Duque is healthy), put Maine in Pen with
1. Glavine
2. Pedro
3. Duque
4. Perez
5. Maine
6. Wagner
7. Heilman
8. Feliciano
9. Sosa
10. Pelfrey
11. Humber – would rather have Carlos Gomez if that is the case
Mota, Sele & Schowenweis should BOT be on the roster
you guys are all retarded this wasnt on Willie what other manager wouldnt pull the closer in that situation … Billy has proven he cant go 2 innings… The guy to blame is LoDuca if he hadnt got thrown out he would have made that catch ,, im tired of all of ya’ll being dumb as hell and blaming willie for everything if he brought in mota then yes it was his fault but he didnt that was a good move,,, you guys need to learn baseball and we cant go 161-0 this isnt football,,, tough loss dont get me wrong but come on now
If Willie had Castillo bunt, Gomez would have scored and they’d be up 3-2 with Reyes at 2nd, Wright at bat, and 1 out. Then Wagner would have plowed through the Phillies in the top of the 9th for the save, giving us a win. Instead he managed with his head up his rear end and was too stubborn to utilize the speed he had on the basepaths and put the pressure on the phillies.
the only retard is Willie…………..please explain why he didn’t have Castillo bunt in the winning run???????????????????????????????????????????????????? – did he have a “hunch”???????????
btw – it’s 162 games
Lo Puke-a sure backed up the smack he talked after the Mutts got swept in Philly with a great performance tonight.
Paul Lo Duca was the one Met to voice his displeasure with the Phillies after that last series, bitterly saying, “They’re dancing around the field now, but we’ll see what happens when the time comes.”
Mutts rolled over for us, once again. Go fetch!!
What the difference? Even if the Mets get swept here, the Phillies will lose 7 out of their next 8 anyway and probably blow 12-1 leads in the process.
let me tell you something i live in san diego and i see the NL west and let me tell you they suck,,,, the NL sucks,,,, its 1 lose who care we are still making the playoffs,,,,, now if we lose in the playoffs then we can bitch to high heaven but right now dont worry about it god im tired of all you bitching clueless fans
doesn’t matter that they won or lost……………….just frustrarted with Willie. He is a poor manager. He is the NL version of Joe Torre – the only probelm is, Joe Torre has been in a coma for the last five years
That’s OK. The Mets can lose both games in the rest of the series and it’ll still be good knowing the Phillies won’t make the posteason. Because no matter how good you play the Mets, you guys choke like wimps against the rest of the NL. Have fun watching the Mets in the postseason while your team is out of it! :mrgreen:
seeing all those dogs at Shea tonight reminded me that Moises says he pees on his hands. Yeah, NY sure is a sophisticated place. by the way, Lo Puke-a loves the girls in Philly.
At least Lo Duca doesn’t beat his wife.
tonight was “bring your Philly girl to Shea night”
YO Adrian – of course Duca loves the Philly girls – that’s why they let the bitches in the park tonight
I was going to say seeing all those dogs tonight reminded me of the citizenry of Philadelphia but why stoop to your level and act like a sixth grader?
I’ll just say I do feel sorry for you as you apparently have such low self-esteem that you feel the need to post incessantly on another team’s blog. Maybe if you’re a good boy when you grow up your team will win a division one day and you won’t feel compelled to display your inadequacies so openly without shame.
seeing all those hotdogs at shea tonight make me think of people choking, just liek the phillies
That home plate umpire sucked and Randolph did a terrible job tonight.
absolutley
after Duca got tossed, Willie should have been in the umps face, telling him that he will be protesting the game and demandeing ques-tek – he should have thrown some bases and got his team fired up…………….not just for the 9th but for the rest of the series………….can someone (except for the phillygirl) please explain why Willie didn’t squeeze in the bottom of the 8th?????????????
I can’t remember the last time the Willie led Mets did squeeze – shame full!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
V Carver–”low self-esteem”? That is synonymous with Mutts fans, whose team has always been a weak second fiddle to the Yankees. I would not bet your ridiculously high rent money on the Mutts winning the World Series this year with that weak rotation and bullpen your GM has bought for you.
Yo Adrian – on this site it’s the Skankees
Well, ignorant as you are, let me educate you. For a good portion of their history, almost half, the Mets have had higher attendances than the Yankees. And they were the darlings of the early 60s and absolutely owned New York for most of the 80s. The Yankees were the Mets poor second cousins at the time. So you are clearly wrong. But that’s ok. I can’t expect a philly fan to know much about baseball.
Don’t be embarrassed by your inferiority complex. That’s what that long history of losses and just 1 championship in over 100 years will do for you! :lol:
weak rotation? HA look whos talking! our “5th” starter in perez has a better era than ur whole 1-5 EVERY STARTER ON OUR STAFF HAS A LOWER ERA THAN ANY1 ON UR ROTATION RIGHT NOW!
sorry sheaboy–Lo Puke-a loves his skankees.
Just like Myers loves beating his wife.
u say mets play second fiddle to the yankees? if you didn’t know, when the yankees had stars and were contending in 2001-2005 the mets actually had better attendance, that goes to show you who has a better fanbase. and please don’t knock lo duca YOU’D LOVE TO HAVE HIM ON UR SILLIES CHOKE! CHOKE! CHOKE!
Seriously, as a diehard mets fan, i would love to believe that statement. I dont think its true. If you can prove it to me, or show me somehwere where I can research it, (too drunk now) Id be more then happy to support you. I do hope you are right
just so we are clear:
Yankees = Skankees
Philly Women = What Mets fans brought to game tonight
Philly City Flower = Rocky
Lo Puka-a? LOL, seriously, how old are you? That’s something that 6th grade boys do … make lame flat attempts at humor by twisting names around.
So tell me that law firm that you have linked to your nick is where your daddy works. Because with your childlike attempt at humor, you can’t be more than a kid.
I was at the game, and I have no idea what game many of the commenters were watching. (Granted–a lot of the game is unseen due to TV editing and commercials.) Randolph was out frequently questioning the umpire’s calls. He was passionate about taking this game. Simply put, the Mets refused to execute in key situations, despite an exceptional play by Wright and a great catch by Alou. I felt the game was “lost” when Glavine walked the 8th place hitter on 4 straight, setting up the Utley HR that tied the game. (And he was behind on Utley 3-0 at one point.) The crowd was 100% behind the Mets, and they just REFUSED to push that run across to seal the deal. That Moyer pitched into the 8th with a very low pitch count was embarrassing. I can get on reyes and Heilman and castillo, but what’s the point. They take a game in this series, the Phillies are in the Wild Card hunt–period. And since their World Series is verses the Mets, I don’t expect Philly to make the postseason.
willie will never win the big game…beltran will strike out in key situations in the playoffs and heilman will give up runs in big spots!
It was really Heilmans fault (pitching wise anyway) if you were watching the game. You wanna fault him for making a stupid throw, thats fine, but he made his pitches. He pitched well.
willie has 6 world series rings…he always wins the big game.
bottom line: too many mets fans are mentally weak and can’t handle losses or adversity. it’s pathetic. baseball is a marathon not a sprint. crying about little moves in EVERY game is ridiculous.
critics, trust me…you don’t know half of what willie knows about baseball. you prove it with every post….
I agree with you, zen. We got this wrapped up, so lets just enjoy it. Lets not go crazy over every move and watch our wins win this division. Of course, I got the Mets on over 91 wins, so I hope they dont get too lackadaisacal. 9-7 the rest of the way to hit that….
Hey Mr. PhillyFan, s*ck it. Sorry if thats bad language on the message boards Mr. Cerrone. stick to your philly stuff, take pride in beating the mets all you want, but you aint winning nothing this year.
Philly fans are the worst in the world, all they do is complain and whine about how good they are, and they never win nothing. Philly is a horrible baseball town, and stop whining about he patriots cheating against you in the super bowl. YOU LOST. I will never root for a philly team EVER, except VILLANOVA.
hey…atleast everyone stopped gettin on willie for not knowing how to double switch…
by the way if green gets on and scores suddenly willie is a genious with a brilliant late inning double switch…so what are we complaining about now…oo yea a suicide squeeze.
excuse willie for having faith in a career .300 hitter to put the ball in play and not have to worry about the probability of a suicide squeeze and bunting the ball in the perfect place to get gomez in.
Even a “safety squeeze” would have been better than nothing. Look — you have 2 guys on base with blazing speed. The guy on 3rd might be faster than even Reyes. Gomez doesn’t necessarily even need to be in motion. Just bunt the ball and run on contact and as long as its not a one hopper to the pitcher or the catcher they have no chance of throwing him out. Worst case scenario is you still have a runner in scoring position for Wright with 2 outs.
seriously .. it’s not like the squeeze is a very high probability play… Castillo rarely strikes out and should at least be able to get a fly ball or a ball on the ground there.
i am certainly not blaming willie. but you have less than two outs with a man on third. the guy at the plate hardly hits fly balls. you preach, you gotta get that run home from third in situations like that. why arent you using arguably this guys best offensive talent and tell him to bunt. i hope next time, castillo just bunts on his own. i just want to know WHY willie doesnt like suicides. i know why torre doesnt, i guess. but why not willie. he should elaborate why he doesnt like doing that play. i am very curious.
I’m sorry but when does Willie NEVER NOT call a bunt? He seems to call it at the worst times when it’s the least efficient. I have to say, when everyone at the game was texting me about “why isn’t he calling a suicide squeeze” at that moment, i have to think the observers really think it should have been done
I THINK THE METS LOSING IS A GOOD THING AT THIS POINT. THEY SEEM TO PLAY BETTER WITH AN EDGE. I’D RATHER THEM HAVING TO GO INTO THE PLAYOFFS FIRING ON ALL CYLINDERS THAN COASTING TO A DIVISION CHAMPIONSHIP.
David Wright was hit on purpose last night!!!! Even though Charlie Manuel put on a nice dog and pony show looking upset at the play, you have to k now that Beltran is the match up they wanted in that situation. Everyone in baseball knows beltran can’t hit a 12 to 6 curve ball in a pressure situation. Its obvious to me the mets need to throw at Utley or even Rollins this afternoon. No more Mr. Nice guy with these dudes.. Come out and take someone out.. Send them a statement. I’m tired of looking like a bunch of pansies.
Hey… off topic…
Last night was “Dog Day at Shea”… we brought our 130 lb Bullmastiff (Bella) dressed in her Reyes jersey. While walking on the field prior to the game, we walked past the Phillies dugout and who is leaning on the rail but Par Burrell.
He looks at us and tells us how cute Bella is.
I ask him what he has against our beloved team and to take it easy on us tonight.
He laughs.
I congratulated him on a great season and he shook my hand.
Very nice guy….
I still hate him, but a really nice guy!
Jamie Moyer, however is such a piece of human garbage.
He had just emerged from the bullpen (well before the start of the game). I asked him very nicely for an autograph for my son who was right at my side.
His reply… “sure, if you pick up that piece of dog sh*t over there”.
Some dog had an accident.
I could not believe he would say that with a kid there.
My reply…
“that is not the only piece of crap out here” and we walked away.
Anyway… we all had a great time out there last night. A great bunch of folks out there with great dogs.
Can’t argue about the squeeze play too much. Yeah Willie could have done it, but the bottom line is:
2 runs off Jamie Moyer. A club of the Mets calibur should be able to get some more done off a guy like that.
For some reason….crappy Philly pitching is the Mets kryptonite.
I do have to say, at least our two best bullpen pitchers didn’t give up 6 runs in the 8th to squander a 5 run lead, dropping a once 12 game lead down to 4.5!! Imagine the Boston blogs right now!!
I was at the game too last night. I definitely saw a Phillies tattoo on homeplate ump’s arm!
But seriously, I think Milledge was hit on purpose. They must have some beef with him. It seemed that as soon as he was plunked, Howard and Utley went up to the pitcher and patted him on the butt and said something to him. Maybe they were just trying to calm him?? or were they telling him thanks?
and D Wright was hit on purpose. They were gonna walk him anyway. I hope Pedro hits Utley tonight(but only if we are ahead!)
The following quote is from the authors of The Book: Playing the Percentages in Baseball:
Assuming that under the best of circumstances a suicide is occasionally a marginally correct play, which I think is a pretty good assumption, given only that it is one of the rarest elective plays in baseball, it is absolutely, unequivocably, NEVER correct to try a suicide with anything but a single runner on third base (with one out of course).
Case closed. Can we just move on?
no i get there is an argument against it, but why is it bad to attempt a suicide with two men on? case isnt closed because i dont get what this source you cite is getting at. that book is about percentages yet it provides no statistical evidence why a squeeze is a bad call. i am not saying it is a good call, but no one, not you, not willie has provided me with ample information why its a bad call.
Honestly, I understand all this, and people know, I’m one of Willie’s biggest fans around here.
But you have an exceptional bunter in Castillo and your fastest runner in Gomez on third. One out. Your hard up for runs. Your not swinging the bats well. I honestly would have called for the squeeze there. Worst case scenario you have Reyes in scoring position, Castillo on first with your two RBI guys coming up to hit. It’s not like it was an 8-8 game and the Mets were swinging the bats well all night.
Either way, at the end of the day the game was lost in that inning. Wheter its a strategical failure or poor execution by players, you HAVE to get that run in there in that situation.
Just win today and get this Philly monkey off our backs. I don’t get why this team seems to be our kryptonite all of a sudden.
Also in that inning…when Gomez stole second, the ball was thrown into center field, Gomez wasn’t paying attention to his third base coach and didn’t sieze the opportunity to run to third. If he was paying attention, he would’ve scored when Reyes hit the single and the we would’ve won. I guess they didn’t show that on TV. I was sitting right by third base and alomar was pissed!! He was pointing to Gomez who was still at second and pointing at his eyes and ears yelling at him that he should’ve been paying attention. Rookie mistake I guess
The reason I didn’t give all the stats is that it all gets fairly complicated. The RE from swinging away is far far superior to the RE from squeezing. (If anyone’s that interested, I can try to post the relative probabilities. But it’s true; believe me). You’d rather have that runner on third with fewer than two out when your sluggers come up. Many many things can go wrong with a squeeze: a pitchout; a missed bunt (yes, even from a good bunter) ; a missed sign (big danger with a rookie on third) etc.
Also, since it’s in the 8th inning (and not the 9th, when the second run doesn;t matter), you’d like to have MORE than one run, if at all possible. We’ve seen plenty of times that one run hasn’t held up.
Anyway, Willie made the right call.
yeah post it. i am really curious! i am a stats guy.
here’s some interesting stuff…I don’t have info on the success rate of a bunt attempt, but the following is the win expectancy rate of each possible outcome of squeezing in the 8th, tie game with one out and man on 1 and 3, home team batting:
one out, 1st and 3rd: WER = .6667 (starting point of squeeze)
Failed squeeze, out at home, 2out, 1st and 2nd: WER = .5200
Failed squeze, batter K’s or pops out, 2 out, 1st and 3rd: WER = .5714
Failed squeeze, DP, out at home and 1st, man on 2nd: WER = .6406 (this takes us into the ninth, and assumes the visiting team doesn’t score in the top of the inning)
So in three possible failed attempts, the win expectancy drops by as much as 17%
Now if the squeeze is successful:
3rd scores, batter safe at 1st, still one out, runner advances to 2nd: WER = .9412
3rd scores, batter out at first, 2 out, runner on 2nd: WER = .9546
So the win expectancy in those outcomes increases by almost 30%.
It looks like the reward of playing for one run in that circumstance outweighs the risk: a 30 % increase vs at most a 17% decrease.
Of course, this doesn’t take into account the success rate of Castillo laying down the bunt, but it’s pretty interesting on its own. Looks like willie should’ve bunted.
I would think you’d need to know the win expectancy rate of not bunting vs. bunting (composite WER under each circumstances) in order to make that assumption.
Did anyone give the WER for having Castillo not bunt?
The deeper you get into it, the more complicated the stats become. There are so many intangibles to factor out. The best I can do is pass along the following link. Check out the discussion that follows, and you’ll get a glimpse of some of the variables. I know I promised proof that squeezing was wrong in that situation. It’s harder to do than I thought. I still think Willie made the right choice. But baseball’s a complicated game.
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/when_should_you_exercise_a_suicide_squueze/#comments
Good research. Thanks for the links and info.
umm wat did chris cotter do to himself with that stache…jose valentine(who?) i think not
You do realize that Utley hit that homerun right?
lol
He does suck. He blew the game the day before (You don’t use your worst reliever in that spot. EVER). You need to get that run from 3rd in with a squeeze play. It’s Gomez, not Castro. He can make it easily.
Just because a team is winning doesn’t mean the manager should get away with screwing up games.
Agreed. This loss wasn’t on Willie. Some fans just like to blame Willie for every single loss no matter what. Where there’s a Willy, there’s a way (to blame him). The team as a whole just didn’t play well enough.
I would hardly call a 5.5 game lead over the second place team “comfortable…” especially when said 2nd place team is in town!!
It is Willie’s fault. He had Reyes and 1st and Gomez at 3rd. He could have tried a double steal. He also could have had Castillo, a good bunter, bunt to bring in Gomez (who is fast). If he did that, Reyes would be at 2nd, 2 outs, and Wright up. They could have gotten an insurance run and be up 4-2 in the 9th and have Wagner mow them down for the win. Instead he waits for a home run, doesn’t put pressure on the Phillies, and then just spews the same “we played well. X threw the ball well, Y hit the ball well, etc.”.
I don’t blame Willie for the 9th or 10th, I blame him for his horrific managing in the 8th with Gomez at 3rd. Castillo should have done a squeeze and gotten him in to get the lead. He has no grasp on the concept of manufacturing runs.
Huh? The Mets manufacture runs every day. With their speed. A squeeze doesn’t always work. Castillo could just as easily have gotten a sac fly. Or if he could have hit a grounder that might have scored a run.
I guess the second guessing will never end. For every loss, some of you will find a way to blame Willie.
Every other day doesn’t matter. They didn’t manufacture the one crucial run tonight. Castillo wouldn’t have gotten a sac fly. A ball he hits in the air usually ends up a few feet from the dirt. Doesn’t matter if a squeeze doesn’t always work, it puts pressure on the Phillies as much as it does on the Mets.
Castillo is an excellent bunter and Gomez is faster than Reyes – why not try it???????? It’s not 2nd guessing when you are screaming it at the top of your lungs at the TV
that was the perfect situation(2 to2 bottom of 8th 1st & 3rd and one out) , only Willie & Torre wouldn’t do it there.
Yes the mets are in 1st place and the players seem to like Willie (like Torre), but his mistakes are so obvious. Whitey Herzog, Jim Leyland, Felipe Alou, Bobby Cox and any other good in game manager would have at least tried –
If you can’t see his mistakes – you must be blind
sheaboy — here is proof that your reaction to Willie is knee-jerk and you have a “grass is greener” mentality like many of our Willie bashing brethren. Do you know that Braves fans complain that Bobby Cox doesn’t manufacture runs? That he doesn’t hit-and-run enough or do the squeeze play? If you don’t believe me, go to any Braves forum/blog and ask them. You’ll see half of them are just like you. Second guessing after every loss and calling for his head. So maybe it’s you who are blind.
BTW, I am not saying a squeeze wouldn’t have been a good idea there. I was thinking of it myself. But I don’t believe that was the only option or necessarily the best one.
Were they complaining about that when he was winning 14 division titles or in the past few years?
My eyes are wide open………unfortunatley, Willie is a problem.
Regardless, Mets still best team in NL – let’s put these Philly putzes away
Willie’s post game comments lost the season for us!!!
Actually, that’s *six* straight losses for the Mets against the Phillies. It was five, leading up to this series after a four-game sweep in CBP.
and why shouldn’t Castillo squeeze? He’s a tremendous bunter and with the infield playing back, a good bunt for a base hit would have been key there. He is a bunt/slap hitter, not a flyball hitter. Therefore, w/o the squeeze or safety squeeze on, you take one of the tools out of Castillo’s hand!
hey i love willie. but why is it a bad play to squeeze and take the lead in the 8th? i dont understand the logic. i wish willie would elaborate there. maybe you can? would you be upset if castillo hit a sac fly? of course not. why would a suicide be bad at that moment?
so forcing him into one option is taking a tool out of his hand? Interesting.
How about Gomez is a rookie and could easily have been picked off, given it away, made some stupid play or the guy on the mound has a great curveball which is one of the toughest pitches to bunt anyway.
Did we just lose the World Series or lost a game that brings our lead to 5.5? Maybe you guys should go blog about the Red Sox pulling a Phillies against the Yankees last night. I wonder what you would say about that.
Come out and get ‘em today!! Go Mets
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