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The Mets (83–65) lost to the Phillies (80–69) by the score of 5 to 3 in Shea Stadium today.
For a recap and boxscore, go to Yahoo! Sports.
…what is up with the Mets playing like Little Leaguers when the Phillies are around…
…it’s sad…and very, very embarrassing…
…Pedro Martinez looked outstanding today…he had all his pitches clicking, he changed speeds with his fastball, and had very good control…in fact, in the first inning, the home-plate umpire called a ball on a pitch that pedro was convinced should have been a strike, and so he actually walked towards home plate and argued a bit, with a smile, of course…
…the thing is, he left with a two-run lead in the sixth, yet his performance got blown to bits by the team’s bullpen and a ton of sloppy play…oddly enough, of Pedro Feliciano, Jorge Sosa, Guillermo Mota and Scott Schoeneweis, it was mota and schoeneweis who did not allow a run…go figure…to his credit, feliciano did strike out the heart of philly’s order at one point…
…however, while i’d love to fault the bullpen, the rest of the Mets, short of pedro, did not play sharp…again…Carlos Beltran misjudged a ball in the first that led to a run, and he really misjudged a ball in the eighth that let two runs to score and give the Phillies a game-winning lead…Jose Reyes got picked off trying to steal twice, one of which was in to third with David Wright at the plate…wild pitches allowed runners to advance…
…speaking of beltran, in a weird twist, i always hear fans complain that beltran plays too far back, yet, on the crucial play in the ninth, he was clearly not playing back enough…
…in the ninth, Marlon Anderson lost his mind arguing a ‘strike’ with the home-plate umpire, on a pitch that was at least a foot off the plate…he was ejected…just like last night with Paul Lo Duca, Willie Randolph had to hold his player back…the thing is, i would like to have seen willie get a bit loud with the ump here, as well…usually, i don’t put a lot of stock in to this, but back-to-back nights he sees his player got tossed, in the ninth, and i’d like to think his players would appreciate knowing willie is as angry about it as they are…
…how is it the Phillies bullpen is amazing when facing the Mets, yet is a total disaster every other series…
…this bugs me…i mean, based on what i watched today and yesterday, if i woke up having been asleep all season and never looked at the standings i would think the Phillies must have a 10–game lead for first place in this division, while the Mets must be toiling around in the third or fourth…because that’s what it looks like…
…fortunately, the Phillies are still five games back of first, where the Mets can continue to sit comfortably, even if philly wins tomorrow…
…still, though, guys, you’re in the first place and being embarrassed…it’s just not right…
just gotta win tomorrow and pray PHI missed the wildcard
Pedro Pitched another Gem. The offense is stale once again. The bullpen is horrible. Willie needs to use Humber, Collozo and Pelfrey in the pen , they cant be any worse then who we have going now. Still 4.5 games up , we all know Philly will choke again after this series. Lets hope they play better vs the lessor teams coming up.
Agree on all counts. We do stink against the Phils but we know they stink against everyone else. Luckily our post season will not be based on our games against the Phils.
The bull pen we know has been our achilles heel all season but we have found ways to overcome that . It is the sloppy embarrassing play (defense and offense) that kills us. This game was once again within our grips but we played like we thought we were infallable and got lazy. If the BP is failing, that is the time to step up and play clean ball in the field and at the plate so we do not hand the game over to the other team. Both last night and today, we handed the game over to them. If they win because their hitting is stronger, that I can tolerate but not walking on runs, getting thrown out on unecessary steals, misjudging fly balls….
The umpiring did not help either. I am wondering if it is time to bring in “challenges” on calls in baseball where we go to the videotape. But since that probably will not happen, fixing the things we can fix should be Willie’s message before tomorrow’s game.
Today was just a bad loss all around except for Petey pitching well…need to suck it up and pull out a win tomorrow…unfortunately Rollins, Utley & Howard are going to be haunting us for years to come.
I find it interesting that Torre has used inexperienced youngsters called up from their minor leagues in both starting and relieving roles and in key situations and has been generally rewarded while the Mets are reluctant to do so (and please Perez and Maine as well as Wang of the Yankees do not fall into this category while a Chamberlain does). When we finally see a Humber and/or Collozo it will most probably be in a mop up role after they have not pitched for 7 or 8 days and will most probably fail from lack of use.
I can see your point but there are some distinct differences.
1) The Yankees starting rotation has been an utter mess almost all year long, with Mussina and Igawa (as well as Pavano) being really bad or MIA. So they really needed some reliable arms to fill in. And don’t forget the Mets have used Pelfrey for over 10 starts this year.
2) The Yankees were able to make room for fresh arms in their bullpen by trading Proctor and releasing Myers. They were 2 mainstays in their bullpen. The Mets chose not to clear room for fresh arms because the worst arms have too much time and money left on their contracts. I assume Omar does not want to eat their contracts.
But I would like to see Humber get a start soon. With El Duque hurt and the need to give everyone adequate rest, I hope that happens. I do not want to see Lawrence get a start instead. I’ll be pissed if he does. As for Collazo, he hasn’t been exactly lights out in his two brief appearances.
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
Pretty indicative of the way the Mets have lost these last two games, wouldn’t you say? On at least two occaisions the Mets had the bases loaded and did nothing of value with the chances. Beyond that the Phils bullpen, which usually has more holes than swiss cheese, completely shut down the Mets again today. It’s mind boggling to think that this team is on their way to their second straight sweep by the second place team in the middle of a tight divisional race. I assume nobody else wants to see a 3 1/2 game lead, because I sure don’t. Thank God the Phillies aren’t playing well against any other teams….at the moment, that is. Now, alot of people are gonna say that they know for sure the Mets will make the playoffs, but the only thing I’m positive of is that I don’t want to meet the Phils in the NLCS, provided the Mets make it to the post season.
And when the hell did the 2007 Phillies turn into the 1992-2005 Braves in their ability to stomp the Mets in crucial games in September?
how are these crucial games in sept?
crucial for the Phillies .. for the Mets, not so much.
Is it me, or does Jose Reyes just seem to have an attitude that’s affecting his play? Since the break and all the talk about whether he was showing people up, he has changed. Doesn’t seem to be having any fun anymore, and it’s affecting him.
I’ve seen that too .. it seems like at some point they realized Jose was one of the reasons teams were coming up so big against the Mets, as if the whole league felt he was showing them up, and someone had a talk with him, and he’s been sort of pouting since, almost like a scolded puppy that wants to cavort, but is doing as it’s told grudgingly. I personally think the league takes itself too seriously and Jose was a great break from all that, and it’s a shame to see him discouraged like this. But I think he’ll bounce back, and hopefully it’s soon!
That said, when he came up with the bases loaded, I said “he’ll probably just pop the first pitch straight up” … ugh. The caught stealing at third was another huge mental error. We do forget how young the guy is, and I’m sure this is all going to pass as he grows up.
Yes, pouty is a better way to describe it. I know that he is young, but that was one of the great things about him, he’s young and seemed unaffected by how important he is to the team. I hope that he snaps out of it soon, preferably before the playoffs.
I wonder if the pouting is caused by his performance, rather than the other way around. But it’s an interesting point.
definitely a negative feedback cycle, and a chicken-or-the-egg .. but at some point, the HR celebrations definitely were toned down, and I don’t think he’s really been the same player since.
Did it come out that Willie and/or the coaches and vets said something to Jose? I tend to think what Jamie said is true. That whatever some perceive as an attitude is more the result of his poor performance.
And I tend to think he may be performing poorly mainly because he is fatigued or Ricky and/or Hojo changed something in his hitting approach. But I think it is more the fatigue from stealing so many bases. He has attempted to steal a lot more than last year, and every attempt may involve 2-3 times where he has to go back to first because the hitter fouled off the ball. So he’s running his body ragged?
One of the broadcasters mentioned that Rickey was preaching to Jose to try to steal more and not worry about getting caught. Maybe this is not the best approach for Reyes because it tires him out and it also means he gets thrown out at bad times — like today with Wright at the plate! Jose has average base-running instincts. They are not as good as Beltran or Wright. So it might be best for him to go back to a more cautious approach.
yes its just you. you are reading into things.
the worst part about these last 2 losses is that I was in Philadelphia for the weekend visiting college friends. Watching the games with all Phillies fans was just brutal.
I was at the game today. After the phils tied the game there must have been at least 3 fights that broke out in the stands. On one of them you could clearly see a met fan beating the heck out of a philly fan. I liked it. HA
Anyways, I put this loss on Willie. Anyone else here was wondering why Feliciano was back for a second inning? I just don’t understand why Sosa couldn’t pitch the eight inning. Willie did the same thing with Mota last week. He leaves them in one batter to long. And its affecting the team now.
The ball hit to Beltran was almost impossible to catch. It was a line drive in the sun. He first came in then went back then came in again and couldnt put the glove on the ball. I love Beltran and I think he’s amazing in the field. It just seems that everytime he makes an error its in a big spot.
Oh well The mets are still up by 5 in the loss column with Olie “big game” Perez up. I have no worries.
its just getting comical. how can i love the mets this much but cant stand how stupid mets fans are? you seriously need your head examined if you watch a game like that and what you get from it is “this loss is on willie randolph”. seriously, what is wrong with you people? what possibly happened in your lives that you think like this? the mets are not the jets so stop whining about things like, “why is feliciano in this game” people WERE SCREAMING when he pulled feliciano the other day when he faced 1 batter. he struck out the heart of the order!
this cannot be simpler. the ny mets PLAYERS did not play a crisp game. picked off. bad defense. bad calls by the ump and bad pitching. WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH WILLIE RANDOLH AT ALL???
Actually it has alot to do with Randolph. 1) He could have put the brakes on Reyes that inning.
2) Feliciano did GREAT to get out of his first inning. Let him leave on a good note. I can see him trying to keep him in to test him. Sosa could have used that test also.
Ghobot, when the mets got swept by the Philiies and Beningo had that temper tantrum I was the one DEFENDING the Mets, when everyone else Jumped ship. All i’m saying is sometimes managers cost the team a game and this was one of them. That is all.
wait, you wanted willie to put the brakes on a guy that that has stolen 76 bases this year? if you were defending the mets at their lowest, how can you sit here and say that its willies fault that this game was lost? i just cant get how anyone can say that when this game was full of PLAYERS not doing what they needed to do.
Its not worth arguing. LETS GO METS. I will never lose faith.
why are you making endless excuses for the mets players? what is seriously wrong with you people????? stop trying to blame everything. baseball is baseball. you lose. its the nature of the game. and if you make mistakes, you give yourself a really big chance of losing.
and there is the first post blaming Willie. Not blaming Jose for his dumb base running, or Sosa for his unnecessary walks to guys who were just picked up 10 days ago to bring up Rollins the Met killer, or Beltran for not one but 2 misjudged fly balls.
Listen, I don’t blame guys often for what causes the loss and I won’t today either. Some very dumb plays but no one person lost the game…and that includes Willie Randolph. Feliciano looked great striking out 3 in a row, including the righty Burrell, and he stuck with him. I have no problem with that move. I don’t want to see Mota or Show because you would cry immediately about that move. Sosa has been shaky lately too.
Come out and get ‘em tomorrow.
people cant be this dumb. they seriously cant be this dumb. again, i really have a bad feeling that jets fans , who went through the herm edwards era, are obsessed with blaming the coach/manager for EVERYTHING. and they bring their ridiculous amount of negativity into every single play the mets make. THIS IS NOT FOOTBALL. if you want football its on all this weekend.
darling and cohen after the HR went on about Willie trying to figure just who he can get two innings from in a big spot, in the playoffs, should one of the starters crap the bed .. and they both agreed that so far the answer has been a resounding no one!!! We all know Willie is apt to use games that are not “must win” as tests for his guys, which is actually pretty smart, so he knows the answers to those questions come October, where we are still more than likely headed, even after these last two games.
As we all know, the Phillies are treating these games like game 7 of the world series, and will more than likely suffer a huge letdown come monday, when they realize they won game 7 a couple times and still have to play for two more weeks.
right on.
Excellent point about needing to test guys for the postseason.
A manager has to manage for the long-term and with foresight. But some impatient Met fans only care about today’s game. Nothing else.matters. Not the need to avoid overusing some relievers. Not the need to keep others sharp. Not the need to find out who can fill holes better.
What’s especially galling is how many fans were skewering Willie for yanking Feliciano after he walked a batter and before Francoeur came to bat, then they skewer him when he leaves Feliciano in and he has good stuff. There’s no consistency.
The Phillies are in the fight of their life for the WC spot and are only a game behind SD at the moment. Every game they play, not only the games against the Mets, from here out is a must win for them. Unless the Mets totally collapse (and baseball has had its share of such failures) the Phillies shot at winning the division is minimal at best. But the Phillies have a legitimate shot at the WC. Since the WC team has had its share of success in the playoffs if the Phillies can grab the WC brass ring they have as good as chance as anyone else of getting to the WS. Thus there is no reason for the Phillies to look at this series with the Mets as their WS. They cannot afford a let down after this series.
I find it disquieting that with only two weeks left to go in the season the bullpen is still in a state of flux with Willie having to “test” people to see who can go two innings if need be in the post season.
I agree that they must win every game .. but to say they’re not playing above themselves against the Mets is to ignore the evidence your eyes are feeding you. I know most of us don’t get a chance to watch the Phillies against other teams much, but if you do, just a little, (or just check the stats real quick) you’ll see it’s obvious that they team they have been in these 17 games is not the team they’ve been in their other 100.
That’s basically the idea. I just wish he’d try out guys like Colazzo and Humber more to see if they can really help. I’m done with Mota.
beltran has 3 errors this season. i dont know if that includes today, but if he misses 3-4 big plays in a season i’ll take the good with the bad.
Watching the Red Sox vs. Yanks — how could the Mets beat either in the WS??
how could the cardinals possibly beat the tigers? (07)
how could the reds possibly beat the A’s? (90)
how could the mets possibly beat the Orioles? (69)
how could the braves possibly beat the indians? (95)
oh yeah, it’s baseball, and that’s why we watch!.
that’s just a few… there’s tons more .. this is a good list ….
try this
This is why Mets fans make me sad. You have the one’s who say you know what, it’s a loss and it’s not on one person. Then you have the Mets fans who have been on Willie since day 1. So what has Willie done since day 1? He’s made this a winning team again! Even his first year he got us to a respectable level then his 2nd season we’re in the lead since coming out of the gate, even when not in 1st still clearly the best team in the NL East. Then his 3rd season as manager he has us in the lead almost the entire season. we’ve been in first since May….MAY! In a division with the phils and braves, who have helped us in shutting down in a big spot but still there. Willie isn’t the one throwing, hitting or catching, or failing to do any of those so get off. And to all you arm chair quarterbacks what would you have done? Our 2 best pen arms screwed it for us today, blame willie for that. our gold glove CF botched 2 catches today, again, blame willie. The umps have the most inconsistent strike zone in the history of mankind, blame him there to. The only thing I critisize him of is not making more of a fuss with another stupid throw out. The 2nd night in a row that a Met gets run he doesn’t make a huge scene, he should have. Willie is the right man for this team and the players LOVE HIM. Find someone else who can manage this team as well as Willie does and then we’ll talk. Or we can always bring Art Howe back! yeah! And don’t say Gary Carter, he’s awesome but Willie is a players manager that the team loves to play for. I swear, some mets fans are never happy. Even if they win the WS you’ll still complain about something. BE HAPPY! We’re the best team in the NL, just not against the Phils. DEAL!
I am fine with Willie and agree with almost all of his decision. I was a very high level athlete and would have loved to play for someone like him. I wish we can go back and see how many of these posters were on Willie when the mets got swept by the Phills. I am dealing and I’m fine but sometimes his moves are a little weird and it costs them a game here and there.
I surrender: I admit that I don’t want the phills in the postseason. They really seem to have our number, or be in our heads, or whatever.
But some of these reactions are just ridiculous. A win tomorrow, and we’re 5.5 ahead again. We lose, and we’re 3.5 ahead. But Beltran misses a play, he’s garbage. Willie doesn’t get thrown out, he’s garbage. Billy blows a save, he’s garbage. I really wonder where some of you learned about baseball–or ,i> if you even bothered. And it really is pathetic that so many flock to post after a loss to pile on whomever, but after a win there’s like 26 posts.
I understand getting frustrated, but there were 20 posts about how the Mets were done while they were leading. And they’ll jump right up and say “well I was right, they blew it!” Congratulations for being a negative cock.
Mets are in first w, up by 4.5 games, with 15 to go. Back to back division winners for teh 1st time in their history. And who knows what will happen in the post season, but at least we’ll be one of four teams in teh league that get there.
I agree. Outside of Mota, I really have a hard time blaming any loss (or crediting any win for that matter) on one player or on Willie. Willie has made some questionable moves but he has also made some brilliant ones. What I like best about him is probably what frustrates the Willie bashers – that no matter what, he never lets ‘em see him sweat. He always keeps his cool, and I believe is well respected by the players.
If I were a Philly player, it would annoy me that Willie blows the game loss off as “just another game.:, nothing important. Keep in mind we have no knowledge of what he does behind closed doors and I would bet some players were getting a “schooling” after the game today but I love that he never shows opposing teams he is losing his cool. And I do not think he is similar to Torre. Torre is respected by the players but I think he sometimes looks comatose during a game.
nice post .. Willie’s “cool” style is a huge reason I like him so much. The old Leo Durocher storming around the dugout and cussing about everything style of management has lost its charm with me. Guys like Cox and Pineilla who overreact about every little thing are just obnoxious spotlight hogs, and I think with today’s independent minded player, the “player’s manager” is much more effective.
Willie is a Pea Brain Manager. He has no skills to motivate and excite his team. He has no game plan to stimulate runs and make the other team fear them!!!
WILLIE SUCKS… Do you understand that????
yeah, 263-206 as a manager is AWFUL. Being 1st in the division since May is pitiful! Taking the team from 66-95 in 03 and 71-91 in 04 to 83-78 in his first big league season and leading them to 97 wins last year and leading them to the division lead since may is AWFUL. Man I wish that he knew how to manage! And don’t say that it’s been luck. 1 season is luck, 3 is skill. sure he can learn to manage his pen a little better but he’d need arms that don’t suck first. and no skills to motivate his team? Did you read the SI article last year when his players said he’s the best manager they’ve played for? Name sometimes when he as a manager flubbed? Oh thats right, when he told Beltran not to swing in Game 7 last year. You people are never happy
You’re fotgetting the most appalling disgrace of all: leading the Mets (in all probability) to two consecutive division titles for the first time in team HISTORY! If that’s not enough to get him fired, I don’t know what is!
Matt, You have the Phils at 80-69 which would put them at 3.5 back. Now I know the way we are playing against them this year it will most certainly be that by this time tomorrow. But I have to believe and watch the gut wrenching reality tomorrow and hopefully they will have to get that 80th win against the Cardinals.
Willie is pathetic. He is managing this team into oblivion. This team is loaded with talent and should blowing away every other team in the league. Instead they are treading water against all these garbage teams. If they are embarrassed in the playoffs and kicked out in the first round, he is on some VERY, VERY thin ice. At some point he’s going to have to wake up and change his attitude or else he can go back to being nobody with the Yankees.
I have problems with Willie as a manager.
Things like leaving in relievers for two innings. Never ever doing a squeeze play. Not giving Humber or Collazo anything even close to a chance. His love affair with Mota. The way he tried to show up Omar with his overuse of Franco. His lack of fire, which is the opposite of Met fans. His association with the yankees… etc…
I am worried that he is a great coach. But a sub-par manager.
I feel as though he has no overall plan. That he just goes with whatever his gut tells him… I appreciate the fact that he does what he thinks is right, and could care less about what the media and fans think… but I worry that he is too stubborn.
He should not be fired, as we have played the best all around ball of any met team I have remember (I was too young to really remember the play of the late 80’s). But I do not have great confidence in him. And I worry that he will ride out the talent Omar has brought him and never lead us to full potential.
The mets are a funny franchise. Unlike any other in sports. We are truly the underdog’s. Always will be. We play with fire, and with an attitude. The 86 team had it, and it is reflected in the style of ball our fans want to see. And if we dont get what we want, we can be some of the harshest fans in the game. Willie is the opposite of that, he comes from the yankee pedigree… which is to play the game like it is a job, like emotion (good or bad) will hurt more then it helps. I dont think you can do that in queens. We want to believe that our team cares as much about this game as we do. I know Willie does care, but its hard to tell and it would be nice to see his desire to win get the better of him. As it does all of us at the games.
This is the most accurate and important post on metsblog this season. Please Omar, make a move this offseason. PLEASE.
thank god omar has two eyes and would not entertain this insane thought.
I think your “we” is speaking of the loud, vocal minority of fans at games …
Phucking Phillies.
It’s not a huge deal, though. They’re a bump in the road, and we’ll breeze past it.
omg i watched the game and i was so giddy that pedro was pitching so well and hit 93mph on the gun and have 9ks through 6 innings. i thought we had this game in the books but when pedro left i knew it wasn’t going to be easy because i remembered that the bp needed to get 9 outs to close it out and then i was scared out of my pants. last year i didnt have that feeling because when the bp comes in during the 7th or even the 6th i knew we had the game in the books but this year the bp just freaking sucks ok, i dont care if they are rank as one of the better bps in the league it doesn’t seem like it. how could we lose to a team with the worst pitching staff in the league n only score 2 and 3 runs during these two games. the mets might go to the playoffs, might even win the division, but this team will not go far in the playoffs when u can’t put the hammer down in ur own division. imagine if we took 2 games from them the magic number would of been 7 and they would be like 3-4 games back in the wild card too. i still dotn know y willie uses his bp guys for more than 1 inning and whats the point of calling up the kids from minors to help out the bp when ur not going to even use them, so they can sit n watch instead of helping out n showing wat they have. i guess the phillies are our new daddy instead of the braves… but somehow i feel we have two now….
Willie needs to go. It is the only way this team will ever win a World Series. He can’t manage the team to win in small games.
how about 20 pushups for every popup, like willie mays hayes in major league?
Tehre is nothing comfortable about this season
Once again, the Mets players are all talk. I am sick of Wagner, Willie, Wright talking about pay back and this team coming out and playing like bafoons against the Phils. I agree with someone who posted earlier, why 2 innings from Feliciano? There wasn’t even a matchup that warranted his second inning. Reyes is playing like someone who has had no A ball experience, running at the most ridiculous times, and why is Gotay stealing at all when the guy is all over the strike zone? Willie has no control of these guys. The bullpen can’t be relied upon at all and the offense is totally inconsistent.
Just sickening.
Willie should have the hold sign up.
Can anyone justify Reyes trying to steal third with two out and Wright up? What is the possible benefit? He can score from second on any hit with two out, pitcher wasn’t throwing wild pitches. Did he do this on his own? Does Willie have a stop sign?
Beltran has to catch that first inning pop up. The triple was very poorly played but excusable due to the sun and how hard it was hit.
Does anybody know Feliciano’s record in the second inning of work? I don’t think of him as a two inning pitcher.
Why won’t Randolph squeeze under any circumstance?
No one here was trying to justify Reyes attempt to steal third as far as I can see. And if I had to take a guess, I would Say was not part of that decision. It was a very dumb move by Reyes but that is the extent of it.
As for Beltran, his defense is usually spectacular. He was not on his game today. Because he is so sharp other times, I chalk this up to just playing very sloppy.
The whole team played sloppy as a matter of fact. The only ones who played crisp was Martinez and possibly DWright. The others basically handed the game to the Phils last night and today. But on the whole, the Mets play of late has been spot on.
the mets have the 2nd best record in baseball against the current playoff teams.
jatson stark espn:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=3016985
too bad willie can’t out-manage teams with similar playoff talent. oh, he does.
i have to admit. there are a lot more wackos for mets fans than i knew there were before the internet. hope to read more posts by the reasonable fans out there as i do so often
let’s go mets.
This is very, very frustrating!! But, looking at the positive side of things, if the Mets can avoid the sweep and get that two-game swing tomorrow, this can help get us on a roll again. Let’s hope the Ollie can pitch a good game and the rest of the team plays like the pros that they are!
This is now getting rediculous. Are the Mets this bad, the Phils this good, or did the Mets just decide to mail it in since the division was clinched?
Oh wait, the Mets have thrown the race right back in the Phillies laps. Hard to believe, but instead of putting the race away, they now pretty much made tomorrow a must win game!
Not because they fall out of first, or too far back to catch up, but because if they lose, the race is back on, and the Mets may actually have to play well and win games to take it! Or conversely, the Phils will be in position to run off a modest hot streak and take over first place.
And no, you can’t just asume that The Mets will just mop up the “patsies” on the schedule (the same patsies that the Phils play). If this team proved anything, it is that they can easily go from real good to real bad, and quickly.
So, even if just for psychological reasons, I put tomorrow as a must win game.
And finally, the Phils pen (and starters) get mauled bey every team in the league, but the Mets make them look great. This makes no sense. 1 hit in 4 innings against that pen? THe day after they madeGordan look good?
And finally finally, if WIllie puts in his “Sunday, give up the game and empty the bench” lineup tomorrow, and the Mets then get blown out, he should be put on notice to be fired!
I have to say, I agree with the last point (except for the firing part)…I’m gonna be really frustrated if half the starters are sitting tomorrow. I won’t say it’s a ‘must win’, but the difference between 3.5 and 5.5 is…well, two games. So I’d rather it be 5.5.
5.5, and it is pretty much over. 3.5, and there is still plenty of time and they are close enough to take the division.
yup…two games difference.
At least Eaton is pitching today, the dude with the 6.31 ERA, still worst in the majors (I think).
Oh wait, that is practically a guaranteed win for the Phils!
I may bang my head on the desk if I check the score later and the Mets are losing 2-1 in the 7th inning, with Eaton throwing a gem of a game!
Where the heck does the offense go against the Phils anyway? It really makes no sense.
SO, they are left with a “not must win, but really they need to win it” game today.
I find it hysterical that people complain so much about Jose Reyes. No perspective whatsoever.
You can complain about someone who isn’t playing smart baseball. Doesn’t matter who it is.
Sure, you CAN complain. It doesn’t mean you have any perspective.
While I understand where you are coming from, because any team would want to have him atop there lineup, there is no denying that his play yesterday was monumentally stupid. With David Wright up you can’t try and steal third. it made no sense.
Reyes has been struggling and no one knows why. Whether it be he is tired, trying to match Rolins’ home run pace, he is pressing; whatever the case may be, he is not the same player he was in the first half.
It just takes a really dumb, and honestly game changing, play for people to harp on his struggles.
Reyes is struggling because this game is hard. Why did Wright struggle in April? Why has Delgado struggled most of this season? Why did Beltran suck in 2005?
Anyone that bitches about Reyes and Wright, who are both only 24 and still learning the game by the way, have no perspective. None.
he’s been pretty bad lately. not nearly up to his potential. is it so hard to understand why some would be frustrated with a guy who is supposed to compete for an mvp award each year failing time in and time out to drive in a run? i love him, but i’m frustrated.
The Braves may be out of the playoffs, but they do have something going for them. I just can’t believe she passed on the obvious Larry joke.
http://www.comcast.net/providers/fan/popup.html?v=517541368&pl=515957513.xml&launchpoint=Cover&cid=fancover&attr=default_headline&config=/config/common/fan/default.xml
Eaton’s had a couple outings vs Mets this year where he goes 5 or 5 and allows 2 runs. That’s about the best the Phillies can hope for out of him
Well, I hope we avoid the sweep today but regardless, after today we are rid of these pests for the season. The other good thing is that the rest of the NL they play will probably smack them around good.
If they miraculously make it to the post season, then I will start to worry. The Phils do seem to be our nemisis. however we clearly handed the last 2 games over to them on a silver platter. But for today, I will root for the best, not be surprised over the worst and then be like Willie, and just move on to tomorrow and hopefully not have to worry about facing these pests again till next year.
Lets go Mets!!!
“Willie is pathetic. He is managing this team into oblivion. This team is loaded with talent and should blowing away every other team in the league.”
icedrake, you are a fool. How is being in first place managing the team into oblivion?
Yes, the Mets have a lot of talent, but the Phils have more in their starting 8 – the difference PITCHING.
If the Phillies had even league average pitching the Mets would be several games behind. Phillies fans have kept track of blown leads/losses attributable to the Phils’ pen, and so far this year it’s been 24 games
With a decent bullpen, you could probably cut that number in half, and the Mets would be 8 games back right now.
Uneducated, baseball-ignorant, stupid, foolish, whiny…..
Quit the first place stuff, it means nothing.
“Yes, the Mets have a lot of talent, but the Phils have more in their starting 8 – the difference PITCHING.”
Yeah, Greg Dobbs, Jayson Werth, and Chris Coste are real household names.
If their pitching sucks, why are they unhittable against the Mets?
As for Willie, he is a nightmare of a manager. He ran them out of big innings all day. He horribly mismanaged the bullpen (Sosa should have started the 8th but of course he goes by a hunch than stats). Also, he did not go out to protect Marlon Anderson. It took him a couple seconds and he walked out there like he was making a pitching change. As soon as Marlon got upset, he should have ran up there and separated them. Also, Reyes or a coach should have done the same and not just watch.
There seems to be something up with him and Wagner. I have no idea why he would think Wagner needed the day off. They had off Thursday, Wagner was great the game before, and Wagner knows the bridge to him is shaky and he would probably like nothing more than to close out a Pedro gem against the Phillies.
Willie deserves blame. Thinking otherwise is just avoiding the problem. The sooner he is gone, the sooner this team will get a ring.
the ny mets will win the 2007 world series.
willie is making up excuses, he said heilman was to be the closer b/c wagner was tired. but wags sed he was fine…………. i ahte willie, i’d love to start a wilie sucks chant, but it seems like the suburban families in the stands like him for some reason.
its really funny how people dont know how good they have it until they lose it, or its gone. i wish i could take this post, put it onto a plaque so everyone can remember how foolish sports makes us.
kRUSY THE kLOWN: YOU ARE SO RIGHT , WILLIE SUCKS LETS START A WEB SITE THAT SAYS WILLIESUCK.COM. START A PETITION TO HIM HIS DUMB ASS FIRED. SEND HIM BACK TO THE SKANKEES SO HE CAN EMULATE JOE NOSE PICKER TORRE
icedrake – go down the lineup;
1B – Howard or DelGado: advantage P
2B – best in all of baseball or …who’s the Mets 2B?: advantage P
SS Reyes or Rollins – Reyes is a much better basestealer, and slightly better defensively, but inferior in all other aspects of the game – a tie, IMO
3B – David Wright is emerging as the best 3B in the NL Advantage NY
LF – Burrell or the oft injured Alou Advantage P
CF – Beltran clearly better – but Rowand’s no slouch: Advantage NY
RF – Shawn(I can’t use steroids anymore) Green .280, 8 HR, 43 RBI, unrealized potential Milledge .284, 5 HR, 26 RBI, Chavez .261, 1 HR, 15 RBI, 4 SB vs Platoon of Victorino .284, 11 HR, 44 RBI, 37 SB /Werth .322, 6 HR, 39 RBI, 5 SB – tie
C – A declining LoDuca .266, 8 HR, 46 RBI or the platoon of Coste/Ruiz .270, 11 HR 77 RBI combined
So, unless you’re a complete homer, or allow the overwhelming coverage of the NY media taint your evaluation, the Phils are better 1 through 8, which is what I said. Ask any scout or GM, or any of the writers on any site. You’ll get the same answer.
our 2bmen isnt supposed to be the number 3 hitter, he fits well with us. itd be better to compare the lineup 1-8
and BTW the phillies may have a better lineup, but its not such a big disparity. but the rotation on the other hand, the mets have a HUGE advantage in the rotation. and better bullpen
Team – Mets in 1st place about to go to another postseason or Phils who every year tease and choke despite playing in a bandbox and seemingly create a “killer” lineup…. ADVANTAGE METS!
yup they definitely have a better lineup, for sure. but contrary to the recent met performances against the phils, they have no pitching staff. the guy today i think has a 6 era. apparently SOMEONE is beating them.
“Quit the first place stuff, it means nothing.”
That comment alone shows what an absolute fool you are.
I’m going to post it on a Phillies blog so they can make fun of you and laugh at your ignorance also.
I’m just trying to be optimistic..but if you wanna call me ignorant for being optimistic then that’s fine I guess :)
It means nothing because any manager could be in 1st place with this team. But if you had a smart strategist like Bobby V, we’d be 20-30 games up and have clinched in August. Only with Willie are we treading water and barely getting by in this pathetic league.
Despite the team being in first place, willie is losing his players! To a man, I would bet that all of the players have a beef with willie and it is affecting the team. Loduca and Anderson got thrown out and you can tell the players are at the boiling point since willie never argues and never gets thrown out sticking up for the players. He is in a coma, he sucks and he must get fired. I hope Jeff and Fred Wilpon are paying attention to their moron manager’s actions and lack of fire….
Fred Wilpon was there yesterday at the game. Hopefully he gave Willie an earful after the game.
Yes, the Mets had a great year in 2006 but look at the OFFENSE a number of guys put up. Who couldn’t be the best team in either league? The offense shielded Willie from any wrong doing.
uhhh he still has the best record in the national league.
ur a true fan!
Here’s something to chew on:
Only 9 teams currently have W-L records that exceed their pythagorean ones by at least one game. Which suggests they are actually playing over their heads, and that their managers are doing a better than average job. The Mets are one of these teams.
I predict you will be wrong. I bet Willie stays as Met manager at least through the end of his current contract. Remember, the person who hired him and would fire him already re-hired him once. There is no way Willie would be let go after this year. It would reflect poorly on Omar if he did that.
give me 3 people who could manage this team better?
bobby v, joe girardi,manny acta
ill give you bobby v but youll all bitch the same when joe plays yankee baseball in queens. And Manny Acta i’m not entirely sold on…but thanks for giving an intelligent response. Willie is still the best manager that we’ve had in a while..
i’d love to have bobby v and girardi, i just threw in acta for the 3rd manager. if you look at what girardi did with that marlins team last year i’d love to know how he’d do with this talent, but maybe that same thing goes for acta because hes done a fine job with the nationals who have the worst talent of the league
Hmmm. Is that the same Bobby V. who presided over not one but two of the worst late-season meltdowns in Met history? And you want him in charge now?
I beg to differ.
the same one who can’t get a job in America?
Bobby V? The same Bobby V who when he left had almost totally alienated his players? Whose team lost 12 in a row during his last year? The Bobby V who couldn’t even motivate them enough to win 1 lousy game during that long streak? Where were the manufactured runs then? The squeeze bunts? The hit-and-runs?
No thanks. The players have more respect for Willie than they did for Bobby V.
Are you joking?
I think it’s simply because it’s not his style and he doesn’t believe getting thrown out will accomplish a lot.
well, they’re successful about 80% of the time. That’s productive. Today was bad, but overall, their stolen bases produce runs. I’d do the numbers for you, but I’m tired and drunk. Maybe tomorrow.
The phils do not have a better running game. They attempt less, sure, but they’re successful less too (not by much, but they are).
reyes was stealing third so castillo could move to second then ud have 2 RISP for the “mvp”
Fact check:
Phils have stolen 126 bases, been caught 18 times, 88 percent success.
(So, yes, Phillies as a team have 2 less CS than Jose Reyes all by himself).
Mets 193 and 42, 82 percent.
fact: reyes has more than half of the stolen bases that the phillies have.
you’re right; like I said though, I was tired and drunk. Now I’m just drunk