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In a recent e-mail exchange about Willie Randolph, a fellow fan casually tossed out the following statement…
“I don’t think it is a coincidence that Jose Reyes has had a big decline and has looked clueless at times in the field and on the basepaths since he got embarrassed by Willie in Houston.”
Actually, in the previous 29 at-bats before being pulled off the field on July 6, Reyes hit .172.
In the 31 at-bats that immediately after being pulled, Reyes hit .387 with three stolen bases in five games.
…my point is, there is nothing to suggest the public embarrassment from six weeks ago did anything to contribute to jose’s recent struggles, which actually started only two weeks ago – a month after being pulled…in fact, the opposite may be true…
…nevertheless, reyes is not right…he’s making odd mental mistakes on the base paths, physical errors in the field, not just on grounders and throws, but on where he is setting up in advance of the play and on cut off throws, and he’s not always running hard out of the box…he just has a strange, uncharacteristic, low-energy confusion about him, that actually reminds me of reyes circa 2004…i have no explanation for it, and do not hear the team talking about it much, as well…last week it was all about him needing a day off…if he’s burned out, i don’t know how one or two days away was going to help…
…fact is, it’s go time, and if jose is gonna be the super-star we know him to be, to really jump up in to that elite group of player he has no choice but to step up, shake off the grogginess, and be that super star…how that happens i have no idea…that’s why i am sitting here, and am not in uniform…frankly, it’s like magic to me that it even happens at all…but, nevertheless, it has to happen, because the Mets will not keep winning in spite of jose’s malaise…at some point, it’s going to catch up with them, if it hasn’t happened already…
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OK…so I love Jose…I have his jersey….had it since he came up as a rookie…but heres an idea. Not saying I’m for it…just wondering anyone elses thoughts on it.
Signing A-Rod when he opts out….to play SS
Using Jose as a centerpiece for a trade for Santana and (insert another player here…Mauer?)
As we all know (but don’t like to admit) you need to give up talent to get talent (unless your name is Duquette)….does Jose plus a Milledge and prospects (top ones) bring back a Santana and a Mauer????
Thoughts?
I’d stop rooting for the Mets.
And here’s why…
1. If ARod goes anywhere, it is to get out of NY. If he stays in NY, it will be to play (and win) with the Yankees. Like it or not, but there is a stigma (incorrect) that winning for the Yankees is more difficult than winning with the Mets. (FTR, I think that is bunk…)
2. You do not trade Reyes for a pitcher in his walk-year, even Santana.
3. I’d go as far as saying you don’t trade Reyes for pitcher. Period. (There is a reason so few pitchers don’t win MVP.)
Blasphemy. I’m not joking. That post was blasphemous.
you should give your credit card # to pay for all the shirts and computer screens that were just ruined from the coffee everyone just spit out.
LOL
Well like I said…it was just a thought. I would prefer the Mets keep Reyes…but it was just a random idea that crossed into my mind. Anyone elses thoughts other than…”you can’t trade Reyes”?
I do hope everyone does know come the offseason…that Milledge, Pelf, Humber, or whatever other prospects name you toss in the mix will probably not land Santana……you need to include Maine/Perez as well IMO.
Honestly, I’d be fine going into next year with what we have, in terms of starters (obviously, the BP will be addressed), then go after Santana as a FA when Pedro, Delgado, and El Duque come off the books.
i wasn’t killing you bro. we’ve talking about jose reyes here. how do you replace a gold-glove level ss who is perhaps the best (pure) lead-off guy in baseball.
the mets can pay for another power hitter or pitcher through free agency. i know he’s slumping, but i love watching him play
even in an “off year” he has more stolen bases than anyone in 15 years. and is top 5 in runs, hits, triples.
Oh I know…I mainly took your comment as a joke. Its cool.
Well, you would replace him w/ another Gold Glove SS in that example….
Leadoff guy however….yes, I suppose I haven’t thought of that….because he is one of the best…if not the best in baseball…even when he is struggling.
I’d rather trade Wright before Reyes.
If Mets acquire A rod, Wright will man 1st or leftfield.
Wright is not a good 3rd baseman anyway.
WHAT?
you want to get rid of a 30-30 guy? I think trading either of them is awful
i think willie should pull a willie mays hayes and make reyes do 20 push ups every time he pops the ball up
honestly…that is not as far-fecthed as it sounds. He really could benefit from that. I mean he is not a power hitter. He needs to hit line drives, and he has not been doing that. He has consistently been popping balls up to the outfield. And it is very frustrating to watch. We don’t need him to hit homeruns…we need him on base.
Comment by RPIazza31
2007-09-15 20:55:32
how about 20 pushups for every popup, like willie mays hayes in major league?
I had the same thought on Saturday.
I think you should go work for Jim Duquette and tell him you loved the Kazmir trade.
most disappointing Met this year. his average could be 30 or 40 points higher. he should have driven in another 20-25 runs. and even if he didn’t hit one homer more, he should be at those numbers.
I’m not sure why every time a Met is struggling, slumping, or playing badly we have to seek closure, by looking back to past events as reason for the decline.
Because Jose Reyes was benched for a game over a month ago in Houston, has absolutely NOTHING to do with his garbage play as of late. These are men. Ballplayers….millionaires at that. Not some mental patsies (outside of Perez).
The fact is…Reyes just sucks right now. And it takes a real fan, to just admit to that. Not everything needs supporting evidence. He’s really bad right now, and he needs to suck it up and start playing hardball.
Matt, your always looking for supporting evidence. Reyes is playing bad because ________. Enough. He just sucks at the current moment.
If you really think Reyes took the field yesterday, and after booting that ball thought “wow…if i didn’t get benched in Houston I would have made thath DP” your out of your mind.
Its shoddy play, and nothing more. What happened last week, last month, etc. has nothing to do with it.
Didn’t we go through this in April with Wright?? It happens.
i agree thats just baseball one week youre hitting the cover off the ball the next you cant hit sand if you fell off a camel, thats the beauty of baseball no one stays hot/cold forever, he’ll come around lets just hope its at the right time.
your right. Dwright looked way out of sync in April. Very similar to how reyes looks right not. He just does not look comfortable right now. But that is the grind of a 162 games…he will snap out if it.
Loopenark….most disappointing met this year has to be Delgado. Reyes has done plenty all year long. I mean he has played great defense and has over 75 SB and 100 runs and is average was rigth around and above .300 for most of the year. He is just in a slump right now. Dwright took April off and now is hot…reyes was hot all year and now has taken Sept. and late August off.
Delgado on the other hand, has been horrible all year. Very inconsistent. And for $16 million a year, we need more production out of 1rst base. He has slowed the offense dramatically.
i really dislike arod but that aside that is a very interesting trade proposal, assuming locking down santana goes hand in hand with that, thats actually very interesting idea and its definitely a trade in which both teams win. In fact it reminds me of the yankees trading soriano who was similar to reyes he was home grown, he was young, fast, good bat, and seemd to be the MIF of the future with jeter yet they traded him for arod. I mean its definitely not happening but certainly intriguing.
Without any other explanation, I’m going to have to attribute his “malaise” to women troubles.
Maybe it’s not so easy to find action if you’re starring for the Mets and have money to burn.
Yea…but he has a long-time girlfriend with a kid. And doesn’t he still live with his parents? He is not as much of a bachelor as Dwright is.
interesting idea but definitely not happening arod will command a salary above 25 mill a yr and santana will def get at least 20 theres no way the wilpons are spending more money on 2 guys than some teams spend on their whole payroll.
Agreed…..thanks for a rational response…
I really, really, really hate to go “off the field”, but I think there’s been some speculation that Reyes has been living it up between games. I certainly hope he learns to save that sort of thing for the off-season.
Otherwise, he’s just a young player going through a long season, putting a lot of pressure on himself. Wright adjusted, and now it’s Jose’s turn. To him that can adjust go the spoils . . . something like that. Guess he already has a big contract, but if there’s one thing that’s certain, we know Jose isn’t in it for the money. You can tell he loves the game.
Unless something has changed in the last 81 days, I’d say that speculation is off-base:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/mets/2007-06-26-Reyes-remains-grounded_N.htm
Haha. I had the same idea.
Yeah, you and I actually see a lot of things through a very similar light…. except Alou… ;)
Who?
touche.
Well, I hope that’s true. I tend not to put too much stock into those sorts of articles — they’ll make you think Albert Pujols is a nice guy. Then again, it’s probably more trustworthy than some baseless Internet background noise.
Great quote by Rickey in there about Reyes hurting the team by hitting homeruns.
“When he hits a homer, the pitcher doesn’t have to worry about him anymore.”
Very interesting and true.
I agree. Reyes’ homeruns are only of real value* when the pitcher is on in front of him.
*Obviously, there is always the inherent value contained in the fact that the Mets get a run.
Did you read this great story about Jose? Unless it’s just a bunch of hooey and spin by his agents, then Jose couldn’t be any more modest and a homebody than what’s portrayed here. Sounds like his agents are good people who would steer him clear of any bad habits. They are also Fonzie’s agents.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/mets/2007-06-26-Reyes-remains-grounded_N.htm
Leave it up to a Willie basher to try to pin this on Willie.
I don’t know what’s at the root of Jose’s funk, but he just hasn’t looked like himself for a long time and it’s real worrisome.
I’m not saying it’s Rickey, but this funk did seem to start after Ricky was brought on board to supposedly help turn Reyes into an even better player. What gives?
Hope he returns to normal by the playoffs.
I don’ t find it out of the realm of possibility that Willie’s arrogance may have rubbed off on Reyes…
Sure, if you believe that the manager is a bigger influence on Reyes’ behavior than his friends, family, and agents.
This players-reflect-the-manager thinking is way overblown.
A buddy of mine [Yankee fan] worked an pre-season event sponsored by his employer and the Mets. Wright, Lo Duca, Reyes, were all there.
He said Reyes came off like a complete [jerk]. Came in flashy, with an entourage, and had an air like he was running things. Apparently he wasn’t very courteous to the people who were working the event, and ignored fans outside the event, in direct contrast to Wright. I was very disappointed when he told me all this.
His take was that Wright was the biggest star there, but Reyes acted like he top dog. Maybe Jose was listening to to much of the ESPN hype.
Just putting it out there…
acted like the top dog.
Maybe he knew there was a Yankee fan there.
funny you didn’t bring this up when he was tearing the cover off of the ball.
i’ve met him several times. he lives in manhasset with his two young children. he’s a great guy. loves baseball. he’s very humble. when told he was better than jeter…he said “no. he is a champion. i want to win like him.”
welcome to the ny post tampon!
Oh please. Take anything a Yankee fan says about a Met with a truckload of salt.
Did you ever listen to the FAN? Ever hear Yankee fans call in to bash Met players? Especially Reyes?
That’s true, especially considering all of the anecdotes floating around about Jeter and his arrogance — incentive for Yankee fans to “retaliate.” In truth, these players are approached by people all of the time, and some people are impossible to please — if the player doesn’t engage them in conversation for twenty minutes, he’s an aloof jerk who doesn’t appreciate the fans.
Same dude [Yankee fan] actually met Jeter at his 30th birthday party, he’s boys with Jeter’s barber.
Long story short, Jeter pulled them off the line outside the club, had a couple of drinks with him, and got him into the VIP area when security was hassling him. Eventually my buddy was partying the night away with Michael Jordan!
Actually a very good friend, who doesn’t have an irrational hatred of the Mets. He had nothing but good stuff to say about Wright, and got me a Lo Duca autograph.
He’s got no reason to be hating on Jose… except for the attitude he was showing.
Harrumph — well, if being an a-hole is affecting his performance, I hope he goes to charm school. It is inconsistent with the puff piece linked above, but like I said, I don’t put much stock in that, anyway. I remember articles about Rey Ordonez calling him a great family man, etc.
Metropolitan, I posted a reply to you but I put it under a post by Jamie below by accident.
Joe D is the biggest a-hole. He calls to completely rip reyes about the dancing then doesn’t mention that the yankees do their dancing in the dugout as well. All of this on a day the Yankees conveniently lost 10-1 to the Red Sox
wow…if that’s true, it’s a serious bummer…don’t know what to make of that.
But could it be that he’s just worn out? His body’s never taken a beating like it has the pst two years. I’m not breaking out the violins or anything, but the mental drifting, over/under swinging just reminds me of me when I’m exhausted. Or drunk. Hmm. Man I hope that’s not true.
Ok, maybe your friend just misread the situation? He mistook what might have been joking around with an attitude, for example?
All I know is if Reyes was acting up and he was hanging with Wright and LoDuca that day, then they probably keep him in check.. They learned from the master Uncle Cliffy, after all.
And that goes for the rest of the clubhouse. If Reyes had an attitude problem I’m sure the veterans would have set him straight by now and we would have heard something about it. Just like we’ve heard things about Milledge in the past. Instead the only things we hear from players is praise of Jose. Same thing about the beat reporters. They only write nice things about Jose. And they wouldn’t hesitate to write things if Jose had an attitude problem.
By the way, I remember last year Jeter got on Cano for not looking up from a newspaper when talking to reporters. Now that’s an attitude issue.. We’ve never heard stories like that about Jose.
The above reply is meant for Metropolitan
You’re right…general behavior of that sort would definitely have gotten around if it were the norm. Ok, I feel better now.
This is a load of crap. I’ve been lucky to have met Jose, Katherine and his agents (Greenberg Bros.) a number of times and nothing could be further from the truth. Someone from his agent’s office usually does accompany him whereever he goes, but it’s hardly an entourage. Also, my impression when I’ve met him is that he’s confident but humble, even a little shy about his fame.
The difference might be that unlike LoDuca and Wright who tend to be more extroverted and comfortable at events like the one mentioned, Jose prefers to keep to himself and the people he knows instead of “working” the room.
The exact quote was:
Jose reyes was the biggest [jerk]. Wouldn’t sign anything or take a flick. Had a 4 person entourage walk him everywhere. Truthfully he was sweated
but everyone was way more concerned with Wright.
And Wright was way more friendly.
so what you’re saying is that you used the scientific method to label someone your friend met once.
I don’t see any need to question what the guy’s friend thinks, or what he thinks of his friend’s credibility. If one of our friend’s said the same, we’d believe him or her. As Met fans, we don’t need to jump on anyone who questions the personalities of the players. We’re fans, not publicists. Take it for what it is.
friends. I can’t stand the needless apostrophe!
Ok, TMU, I’ll take it as a personal view from a Yankee fan related to a Mets fan who is not necessarily a fan of Jose’s as evidenced by his other posts in this thread. :wink:
Bingo. I think that’s the difference. Plus, while Reyes is pretty good at English, it isn’t his native language and he may not always feel truly comfortable when everyone’s speaking English.
Gotta weigh in here. I went to Spring Training and have gone to maybe 25 games this season. While in Pt St Lucie I did not see Wright sign a single autograph. He waved as he drove by fans waiting for him. Reyes signed so much. I got there a little late and just missed getting his autograph.
Every game I go to after doing his running and stretches I have seen Reyes sign autographs except maybe 1. Wright I have not seen him sign 1. David sounds like a great guy and may sign constantly outside of the stadium but I always see Reyes signing and being friendly.
A friend of my moms is friends with Reyes’ agent’s secretary. They were meeting for dinner she was running late so they were meeting at Jose’s house. Jose was extremely courteous very much a family man and invited her for dinner.
Just throwing this info out there
The last home game of the season should be an Impromptu giveaway for Mets fans…. Free IcyHot packs. It perfectly captures the essence of this season… hot and cold streaks for every player and tons of injuries to go around.
God forbid somebody actually thinks Jose is overrated on here. If people around here actually found out he was a Barry Bonds variety jerk, it would crush their orange and blue world….
Right now he’s the 3rd best SS in the NL East…
If you count offense only.
Reyes is still the 2nd best defensive shortstop in all of baseball behind only Vizquel (ZR). Rollins and Ramirez aren’t even close.
You want to know why Jose is struggling? I have a number for you: 98. As in his total steals (78) + the number of times he has been caught stealing (20).
Stealing bases takes a tremendous toll on your body, especially when you slide head first. Rickey has hinted at this himself. He said he believes Reyes can steal 100, but he needs to get off to a great pace in the first half, because after the All Star break you start to slow down.
Last year, his combined steals and caught stealing was 81… this is a pretty significant increase. Also, he plays SS, where Rickey played LF. Reyes also plays everyday, where Rickey would take a day or two off a week.
I think this is a totally overlooked side effect of stealing all these bases. It wears a player down. There is a reason why there aren’t many SS’s who stole 100 bases, or even came close.
Great point. Also take into account that he’s still developing as a ballplayer, and a base stealer. I think Rickey will help him a lot more next year in pacing himself and how to “manage” slumps as a leadoff hitter (focus more on hitting the ball on the ground, fighting off pitches for long ABs and moe walks, etc.).
Absolutely. He’s only what, 24 years old?
My dad also believes that he has been hearing about Rollins and Hanley Ramirez closing the gap on him, and about their home run exploits. This is certainly a possibility.
Reyes needs to get back to smoking line drives in the gaps and down the line.
They need to sit him in a room Clockwork Orange style and make him watch video of Ichiro hitting on loop.
I agree.
I also think the SBs are taking their toll. So what’s the answer? Perhaps to cut back on his basestealing. Maybe they need to put on the red light when the team is ahead by 4-5 runs.
I’d rather have the old Jose back than the stolen base leader. Who cares if he ever reaches 100 or not. Or even 70 -80? Fifty-sixty stolen bases are enough.
It’s really tough to say. On one hand, it’s really nice to have him get on in the first inning, steal a base, then score an early run on a single or what have you. Same could be said for when it’s a close game late and you need a run. Obviously you would like to see him get into scoring position.
Maybe the answer is to just give him some more days off during the year. I know he’s an integral part of the offense, but he really shouldn’t be playing 160 games.
I agree with you, but I think there is something going on between Reyes and Willie.
When wright was struggling in April and May Willie dismissed the question , but with Reyes Willie was saying we can win with one player struggling…WTF
thats a very credible explanation for why he is dropping off a bit rather than bc hes cocky or a jerk. Last time i checked arrogance doesnt stop guys from performing. theres no way you can convince me derek jeter isnt a cocky sob, or that albert pujols doesnt think he is gods gift to hitting, you cant be that good at ANYTHING without being a little cocky. the problem is theres no tangible explanation for this so theres no reason to try to invent one, the guy is slumping, soon he wont be, he could go 4-4 tonight.
yea i mean 160 games is ridiculous. if hes healthy all year it should be in the 155 neighborhood, but i definitely agree with cutting back on the stolen bases just a little, i mean 60 SB is still a ton, and i mean if he steals 60 then hes prob only attempting 70 so thats about 30 less attempts than this year.
and now that I actually read the post…..
“I don’t think it is a coincidence that Jose Reyes has had a big decline and has looked clueless at times in the field and on the basepaths since he got embarrassed by Willie in Houston.”
Since he got embarrassed…….like the monkey on Seinfeld once Kramer hit him in the head w/ the banana….he just sat in the cage pouting…
Willie embarrassed Jose…so he forgot how to play baseball?
lol
I know some of you will think this is goofy, but there is some scientific basis for the lunar cycles having an effect on us. We are mostly made up of water and certainly the moon has an effect on the tides, so it’s not so far fetched. Matt, you just mentioned that Reyes problems have been going on for the last two weeks without explanation. Well, the moon became full on August 28 (just over two weeks ago) and has been on the down side since then, until it became New Moon on the 11th (and there seems to have been a slight improvement this week in his hitting). Of course, it would be natural for him to be just plain tired for the long season and he’s getting a little older now. For those who are curious about the lunar cycles, the moon will be full again on September 26, going down to New Moon on October 11th and then up to Full Moon again on October 24th. Of course, the Phils, Red Sox, Yanks, and all lthe other teams are being affected by the same moon, for what it’s all worth.
hey Mr Cver. I always run into you in bad neighborhoods.
I wonder how your lunar cycles affect Moises Alou’s pregame hand-toughening regime?
My alternate theory is that maybe Jose and his attitude problem should get away from the bad influence of the Rickey and seek counsel from the teams elder statesman. I’m talking about Lastings Milledge y’all–give it up for the best behaved guy on the team!!
Yeah Cver in da hood – the bad one!
you know, cver, i never fully understood why we had a particular connection in the chat room (a place i don’t think i will return to since it has turned into a high school frat party). now i do. i give credence to most things astrological and the influences they have on more things in life that we are aware of. to tell the truth, there have been heaps of odd planetary configurations the past few months, but none can really explain the oddity that is this 2007 mets season. some season.
Wow. That was a very interesting and eclectic post.
I tend to think that it isn’t a coincidence that Reyes has hit the skids at the same time that Wright has been at his best. For much of this year Reyes was the guy that was talked about as an MVP candidate and the best player on this team, but now Wright is the guy.
Just maybe Reyes has got down in the dumps because he isn’t getting as much of the attention and isn’t seen as “the guy” right now.
I’m not saying he’s self-centered or puts himself before the team, but all of these guys have egos and want to be the man. Maybe his ego has been bruised a little bit and it’s affected his play.
Is it really a mystery? The kid is tired, he’s been playing non-stop at an energy level way above everyone else in MLB since February — not to mention whatever he did in the winter.
And as amazing as it sounds, getting one day off a week ago won’t rejuvenate someone who’s needed a rest since June.
In the old days, there were players who could go 162 a year, but I don’t know any of them who played at Reyes’ level of exertion. Cal Ripken was obviously a horse, but he put it in cruise control — he wasn’t stealing 75 bases a year, for example (his career high was 6). Not to mention that players aren’t allowed to use greenies to stay “up” anymore.
Despite Keith Hernandez’s theory that “guys under 25 don’t get tired”, the truth is, Reyes could have used a rest here and there in June, July, and August. His malaise shouldn’t be a big surprise — all of his recent issues are glaring symptoms of fatigue.
When Rickey Henderson (at age 23) stole 130 (172 attempts; think about that number), he played in 149 games. The next year he stole 108 (127 attempts) in 145 games.
Jose has already played 146 games this year. I think there is a lot of validity to the idea that he needs to take a game off more regularly.