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In a report for MLB.com, Marty Noble quotes an anonymous Mets player as saying…
“We play at the temperature of the manager. I know Willie cares a lot, but he’s not showing it much.”
Meanwhile, in a follow-up column for MLB.com, Noble talks with other anonymous Mets and, according to Noble, they all feel ‘a talk, a speech, a meeting or a tirade’ is necessary to snap the team from it’s current funk.
…from what i understand, lo duca had suggested to some people last night that he may or may not address the team before today’s game, with the help of a few other players…
An anonymous player, as quoted by Noble…
“Only two guys in here have the ear of almost everyone: Moises and Carlos Delgado. Maybe Paulie can help.”
…all i keep hearing fans is how the team’s manager, Willie Randolph, needs to be that voice, that willie needs to get angry, and make a scene…the thing is, on a veteran team like the Mets have, it is the players who need to step up more than willie does…
…i talked with two former major leaguers last night, both of whom are considered to be among this organization’s most respected leaders from the past, and from what i can gather out of them, while willie should let the team know he still believes in them, and that he should make it known to them that it is crunch time and time to get it going, it’s guys like lo duca, and Billy Wagner, mo, maybe delgado, which is tough now because he’s hurt, and to a lesser extent even David Wright, not willie, who need to get in their teammates faces, it’s the players, not the manager, who must wake themselves up, get them to hustle on every pitch, get them to raise their chins, be strong, run hard on and off the field, get up off the bench, cheer for their teammates, and essentially lead their teammates to victory…it sounds childish, or like Little League…and it sounds beneath high-paid athletes…but it isn’t…
…in other words, they’re all in this together, and they need to act like it, because you win and die as a team…not as subordinates…
…as one of the former players told me:
‘i’ve been on a lot of teams, with good locker rooms and bad locker rooms, and to really have an impact, to get back to winning, it has to be a horizontal solution, not a vertical one.’…
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If its not the manager’s job or fault, then why is he here? Its not his fault that players play bad, its not his fault that they have no guts or fire, then his “real” role is to put a line-up out there…therefore, WILLIE IS AN AWFUL MANAGER!!! He has no clue how to manage a game. Starting Lawrence in a must-win is horrible. Not knowing how to double-switch is pathetic. I can go on and on, but its time to realize that he is really to blame here. I don’t want to hear that he turned this franchise around, because a monkey from the zoo would have won with the talent that Omar put on this team last year. How many games did Willie “win” with strategy vs how many did he lose?
I actually agree with you (now I’m scared..). It does seem that Willies claim to fame was that his guys were prepared, they played the right way,and won for him. He never was seen as some grand strategist or baseball savant.
So, if he loses the team, and starts to unravel himself, then what exactly does he bring to the table?
Needless to say, and it sucks that it has come to this…tonight’s game is arguably the most iimpoirtant game this year. Not so much from a standings point of view (although that is a factor) but from a psychological point of view. The Mets are at the very edge of the abyss (the abyss = blowing the NL east lead) that can make or break men.
They had better step it up tonight and the rest of this road trip, or don’t bother coming back to Shea.
I have always thought that the manager was way over rated. He is not on the field playing the games, the players are. Ok I said it. Now, I do think that the in game decisions, such and PH, pitching changes, putting on plays and Defensive changes are made by him. And these little things can oten change the face of a game. I also feel that it is his job to keep th eplayers focused and motivated, as much as he can. It is in these 2 areas that I feel Willie has failed. He has a good team with good players that should not need to be told or talked to, but, they take there lead from him. What kind of message is he putting out there? “it ok its a long season and we will get the tommorrow”. Well the long season is getting shorter by the game. Its time to stop the post game BS and get down to buisness and WIN some games. Do whatever it takes to get the team going. Whatever approach he has been taking has not worked well. It didnt work last season and it wont work this year either. Time for a change in style and approach Willie. LETS GO METS !!!
not only does willie have to be help partially responsible, so does omar, I know we all sung omars praises when he got the big name players, Pedro, Beltran, delgado, Loduca, Wagner.
But Omar has to be held parially responsible for the teams faliures this year as well, the bullpen was an obvious issue starting from the offseason, ok he picked up shoenweis which at the time seemed like a decent deal, but as the trade deadline came up, that opinion had changed and the bullpen Obviously needed serious help, and Omar diddnt address it. The lack of clutch hitting doesnt help either, but look at how many leads the bullpen has blown.
Agreed 100%.
I don’t think you can blame Omar for not picking up someone for the bullpen. If you pull your head out of the sand and look around, EVERYONE is having bullpen troubles — which is why it took a king’s ransom for teams to acquire Gagne, Dotel, Linebrink, etc. — all of whom turned out to be busts.
Or do you honestly think this team would be much better off right now (and the future) if the Mets traded, say, Pelfrey and Milledge (or Gomez) for Eric Gagne — he of the 7.62 ERA and expiring contract?
I think it depends on how you define ’strategy.’
Strategy isn’t just double switches and the painfully overrated squeeze play.
It’s also how to rest guys, when to address them after an error, how to do it without embarassing them so they keep performing and feeling good about themselves, as opposed to embarassing them in a way that may motivate them, as well. Strategy is a lot of things we, as fans, do not see.
That being said, Willie’s on-field strategy has most likely cost this team a win or two, if not more, but his off-field strategy has probably helped win them a game or two, if not more, as well.
My point, and the two player’s point, with whom I talked with, was that Willie’s job in a crisis like this is to show his disappointment, reiterate the serious nature of this losing, and to challenge his team to do better, all while never showing a lack of confidence in them.
Then, the core-leadership on the team, among the players, must take that message and make it a ‘don’t let your teammates down’ type of approach, don’t embarrass yourself, etc.
It’s a ‘platoon mentality,’ from what I was told.
Absolutely. This needs to be a “family”, where one guy picks up another. And now, we all need to pick up each other. My problem is that people will only start to feel this way if they feel there is a problem, and Willie never makes it seem like there is a problem, so…. consequently the team basically goes through the season without give a sh–.
Two problems leap off the page:
First, despite preaching consistency and staying the course etc., this team has been anything but consistent. If the manager is to get credit for his teams successes when winning 10 of 12, he must take the hit when choking in late September as well. It seems almost as if this team functions on a daily basis on autopilot. Not good.
Second: Why is there this call from the Met players for someone to have a meeting or a tirade? If that is how a player feels, how about taking the bull by the horns and starting it himself? This “boy, I sure hope someone (not me) does something to fire me up soon” attitude is precisely why this division is not all but sewed up right now.
Matt,
With all due respect, you’re being a homer here. I mean, how has Willie’s “off-field strategy” gotten this team 2 or more wins?
I think his “off -field strategy” of never stressing ANY game as a big game has contributed to the overall lack of intensity in this team this whole season and therefore has been COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE!
Homer is valid. Anyone else tired of the constant over-protecting of willie randolph here? I mean c’mon, be a LITTLE fair.
Uh, why is the squeeze play “painfully overrated”? Hogwash. If Castillo had laid down a bunt with Gomez on 3rd and a runner on first in the 8th inning a few nights ago, we’d have had at least a 1 run lead. Plus it gets the traling runner into scoring position.
Willie hasn’t used the squeeze play a single time in his 3 years here. Ludicrous. Stubborn. Lame.
i hate squeeze plays, i hate bunting, i hate hitting and running and all that overrated nonsense. but honestly, in that situation, a squeeze was our best shot. castillo will barely ever be able to lift a fly ball deep enough to allow anyone to score. all the guy can do is play second base and bunt, and his complete lack of power is brutal in 3rd base, less than out out situations because the outfielders can play as shallow as they want.
as for willie, for a guy that talks about being aggressive so much, he sure seems terrified of the squeeze and the wheel play.
Ok, Noble quotes someone who won’t use his name on record – be a man and call out the manager, maybe the team could use some controversy…
And Matt spoke to two anonymous “former team leaders” – who? Why don’t they want their names out there?
>>And Matt spoke to two anonymous “former team leaders” – who? Why don’t they want their names out there?<<
Becasue they probably want Willies’s job, which could be up for grabs if this doesn’t rectify itself soon and in the post-season.
Wanna bet Gary Carter is one of theose “anonymous former team leaders?”
I always thought Keith Hernandez was the man behind the “One Met Said” quote….
it’s pretty obvious that the two former players are keith and ron. and they can’t say anything publicly because they work there still.
Well, in my case, it’s because these people do not feel it is not professional or appropriate for them to second-guess the team’s manager, which makes total sense.
This is not surprising. I’ve been saying this ALL YEAR about Willie. ALL YEAR. I got jumped on by some people on this site …….. but I was right. The players feel the same way.
that post may be the most concise, truthful statement this site has ever seen. wow, that is a great job nycuban.
I have said this since the middle of last year but all te Willie lovers out there scoffed at the notion that a monkey could have done what Willie did last year. The NL was awaful last year, like this year, and the Mets just had a great offense. This year, the NL stinks, the team thinks they are owed the NL and it is the manager’s job to get them to see th importance of every game and be prepared. He has not and I doubt he will do this at all this year. I wish Omar would have not given him that extension before this year. I was hoping he would not give him one when it took so long . but, the Mets have cash and they can let him go regardless of money owed. Look at how much Howe had left. I hope Willie is gone this off season and I’d love to see Valentine back though many disagree. Plus, he seems like a god in Japan so he may want to stay there. But that is in the future and the Mets current season can be saved if a couple vets like Delgado, LoDuca, Glavine, et al would stand up and get the team going…
These guys have been playing for a long time. At this point, if they haven’t figured out that it is crunch time, I don’t see much hope for a playoff run!
But, a nice team meeting led by the key vets is a good idea. Clear the air, call some guys out, all that good stuff. Make a commitment to play hard (leave all the blood and guts on the field), hustle, dive for balls, everything. Play every game like the 7th game of the WS.
Then, go out and lead by example. Get pumped in the dugout, be fired up, get in some faces.
Start with Reyes. Pump him full of red bulls, and turn him loose. Whatever it takes.
Here is a novel idea, how about gaining an ounce of faith from the players by defendng them instead of leaving them out to dry. Why Willie left LoDuca and ANderson out there this weekend, says a lot that I think the players are very aware of…
…perhaps Willie IS losing this team at the most inpoortune time. last night, the expression on his face during and after the game revealed a manager who is confused and nervous about whats going one. At least it looked that way to me.
The players are looking for leaders, not just from other players, but from someone above them, the manager. I am not sure if Willie knows how to lead. Standing next to Torre all these years doesn’t qualify one to lead necessarily. he was not even a leader back on the ‘77-’78 Yankees…it’s just not his style and it could be the downfall of his tenure as a Mets manager unless a complete 180 occurs for the next 40 days.
No…Reyes needs to get his head out of his ass. He needs a “friend” like Wright to take him to a mirror and show him what he has become. It will be a slap in the face. Thats why it has to be a friend, it will be an insult from anyone else.
This is a good team that has played mediocre baseball, pure and simple. They coasted through most of the year, having no significant divisional competition until the end. I want to say that they should be a terrific team, but the bullpen is just a steaming pile. Meanwhile, the defense is just a manifestation of a classic choke job.
Your season has (HACK! HACK!)
This is a good team that has played mediocre baseball, pure and simple. They coasted through most of the year, having no significant divisional competition until the end. I want to say that they should be a terrific team, but the bullpen is just a steaming pile.
Your season has (HACK! HACK!)
“I want evErybody to stand up. Walk to your window. Open your window and shout…I’M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE…..I’M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE”
LETS GO METS!!!
LETS GO METS!!!
LETS GO METS!!!
LETS GO METS!!!
Enough with the talk (especially about who needs to talk to whom and when).
There’s one thing that will snap the Mets out of it. A WIN!
Right, and this is about the means to that end.
not true SMC,,, look at this season.. We’ve been coming back and winning these sorts of games all season and we are still in this situation.. True it might right the ship for a week but this team has a shot a world championship. They need a major mental change in approach.
Willie’s use (or misuse) of the BP, his strategic moves (or gaffs) during a game, the match-ups he seeks – none of these really underlie the current collapse. The core problem lies in Willie’s laissez-faire managerial style and his failure to apparently understand that he has primary responsibility for getting his players ready for each gameand that even major leaguers need to be motivated by external forces (right, Mr. Parcells?).
Clearly, he did not do that in both of the Philly series. He apparently never even talked to the team prior to the first game. How could that happen? What message does that send to his players?
Willie’s even-keel approach may work for a Yankee-type team, one with an all-star at every position. But we all understand that the 2007 Mets are not that type of team.
The seeds of these last losses were sown in spring training when a lack of intensity and dedication to preparation were tolerated. They were was cultivated during the season, reinforced by repeated statements that everything’s O.K. since we’re in first place. They were further encouraged by his tolerance of a lack of intensity on the part of some veterans, selecting instead to punish Mr. Reyes.
In the end, if a team does not perform up to the collective abilities of its members, then the manager has failed to do his job and must be held accountable. The good news is that there is still enough time to right this listing ship. But to do so, Willie has to have the capacity to understand where he has made mistakes and do what is necessary to make changes. Let’s hope he does.
One other point: Willie, let go of the marathon analogies. You don’t have it right. Every runner knows that one has to take it up a notch a certain points in a race as the situation demands. It’s not one big, steady coast. One runs each segment as hard as possible, and even then, a situation arises when you have to lay it out.
well put… great post
This team has been playing with a sense of entitlement all season, as if first place was there’s by right and they didn’t have to earn it. During all their inconsistent playing, the common refrain you heard was “Well, we’re still in first place.” As if that justified their casual style of play. There’s no excuse for losing by a score of 12-4 to a team like the Nationals. None. If it was a 3-1 loss, I could understand – that’s just the way baseball can be. But 12-4 to one of the lowest scoring teams in the MLB? Disgusting.
This week will be the most important week of the season for the Mets and with the innate talent this team has, there’s no absolutely reason it needed to be. The Mets have painted themselves into this corner. There’s a sick and twisted part of me that is saying “serves you right” as they try to get themselves out of it .
Willie is a waste….guys do not like playing for him. He never sticks up for his guys. He never defends them against the umps. He shows no fire…no spark…nothing.
But he likes “his guys.”
Maybe, he had a “gut feeling” to start Brian Lawrence in a HUGE momentum game to get back on the right track, when Maine would be on full rest yesterday.
Oh, and he preaches an “even keel” strategy, which has clearly worked, since the clubhouse is a mess now.
Be bold, Omar….fire this clown today!
Listening to Willie during a press conference is about as interesting as watching grass grow. Whether the Mets win or lose it’s the same thing. Obviously he doesn’t like talking with the media which essentially means he doesn’t like talking to the fans. Most of us have supported this team a lot longer than Willie has been around and we desrve something better. Give us some insight. Something. Show us you have a pulse. I’m not asking you air dirty laundry or anything but at least show some sort of emotion. Understand that the fans are passionate. Give us an inkling that you are too.
Can’t wait 20 more min to another BENIGNO MELTDOWN
Me too. It’s gonna be epic. This time, I’ll bet Evan will agree with him more.
If your parents never told you that getting a “D” in school was bad, why would you strive for anything better? Willie’s attitude that its ok to get a “D” as long as you pass (get first place) sends the wrong message to this team. It should be about getting better (and playing crisp baseball). Don’t play to just get by, play to destroy the opposition.
hey, some of you guys were bored last year. you wanted a race? you got one. DON’T EVERYONE JUMP OFF A LEDGE..WE’RE STILL IN FIRST PLACE AND WILL BE IN FIRST PLACE ON OCTOBER 1.
Was at the game last night. I am not one for hyperbole, but that was a disgrace. For the first time this whole season, I am really doubting whether this team is going to make the playoffs. Even after the Cheesesteak Massacre and the 3 game sweep at Shea, I didn’t doubt this team. But for the first time, they didn’t pick themselves off the deck, they wallowed in their sorrows.
The manager can’t play the game, but his decisions set the tone. Many of us Mets fans in section 421 were openly questioning Sele in this situation, or any for that matter. Bringing in a pitcher who has simply not gotten the job done (like Mota over and over) in a big early situation sends only one sign to a team — “here we go again…” With an expanded roster, far better to bring in Humber or Smith or, yes, even Feliciano early to cut down an early threat. Bad enough Lawrence was starting at all, as the players have no confidence in him.
There a psychological difference when you’re playing behind a young pitcher with talent–you want to do your best to pick him up if he scuffles–than to be behind a pitcher you’ve seen get rocked all season long. There you hope to the baseball gods a rocket finds a glove–and you press.
Maybe it’s Omar calling the rotation combined with Willie’s use of the pen. I dunno. But now, hopefully, this team will see the position it should have seen itself in a couple of weeks ago–they are in a pennant chase and need to treat every game until that Magic Number is zero like a playoff game.
Problem is, I don’t think Willie knows how to set that tone for this team, and guts this team’s heart with poor decisions with the pen.
I do not normally place this much stock in a Manager. But what I saw just by the body language of this team yesterday makes me think that this is a team that doesn’t trust its manager.
I believe!
although it has been hard lately and i do amit to only listening to a lot of these games on the radio b/c i fear i will throw my remote through a window if they make another stupid error
You guys are unreal. Is Willie grabbing a bat and heading to the plate when the score is now tied at 4. How about 5-4? Is he Milledge letting a ball drop in front of him when last week at shea he dove knowing how big the play was? Is he swing at the first pitch from a guy he’s never seen before down 8-runs?
I love this “anonymous player” stuff. Got to be dookie. The guy is pissed he gets double switched (and has every right to be the way it played out) , he was pissed he was dl’d for 15-days with his hammy. Sometimes he’s doing more harm than good. The team is accountable for the team. Players only meeting and some PLAYER has to step up. The lineup hasn’t changed, lawrence shouldve been able to give them 5 innings, (even though it is arguable ARGUABLE it shouldve been pelfrey.) Lets all wait and see how they react tonight.
Let the games begin…Benigno is starting up!
Willie’s use of the bullpen lately has been nothing short of horrific. At this point, he knows what Shoenweiss, Mota and Sosa are capable of, and its not good. Now is the time to see what Collazo, Smith and Humber can do, because it cant be any worse than what those guys are putting out there. I think the only way for this to happen is if Minaya “Show’s” those guys the door. Sosa really only pitches well against righthanders, make him a specialist. The other two really have no value, and need to go, or at least, have their roles lessened.
I agree, but I think you’re off on Shoenweis. He pitched well yesterday, and I think has been coming along nicely in the 2nd half.
At this point you need to ride the hottest hands, because there is no longer room for error. Schoenweis is a passable lefty specialist, Sosa mirrors him from the right side. We need to see more of Smith (not in blowout situations) to see if he can bring anything to the table. Pelfrey needs to be put in the bullpen as he can be useful as your 2-3 inning guy. Heilman/Feliciano are your 7th and 8th inning guys–with Wags closing, of course.
Mota and Sele have to take a seat–they’re done.
The bullpen is empty — the players and Omar are just as much to blame as Willie for his rampant misuse. Just look at the pitching line yesterday and tell me where our solid pitchers are.
There is NO excuse for a team that makes 10 errors in two games the first time (well, second time) they sniff competition in the division. Unreal. Is the lack of talent/focus Willie’s fault? Who knows. That said, we know he’s not winning games with in game tactics or strategy. The only defense for his management is the team’s overall performance. Well, if they choke away an 8 game lead in late September, that’s it — he’s gone. If they turn things around, he stays. If it sounds like it’s somewhat out of his hands, that’s tough — if you want to argue that a manager’s success or failure can’t be discerned other than by looking at the overall outcome, well, there you go.
And Willie looks like he’s mastered the school of Joe Torre. Poor pen usage? Check. Look like you dont care? Check. Let promising young arms languish in the pen? Check. Sigh………..
The last comment is inaccurate. Remember, they threw a rookie (Joba) into the fire and it’s worked out very well.
Yeah, Chris Britton called, he wants to go back to Baltimore. Colter Bean? Juan Padilla? Chamberlain was a desperation, which is the exception that proves the rule.
it is not willie’s fault that the bull pen has been horrible. it is easy for a bull pen to be effective when you have a 10 game lead but its a race now guys and this is going to happen. you cant lose the faith in your team because of 4 games but the team needs passion. all the players have their faults but you got to use your main guys. you know why mota pitches almost every game?? he makes millions and he is handcuffed by Omar to use them. if you use Mota, Sosa, Heilman Felicaniano every game they arent going to be sharp bring up some minors and use 1 or 2 of these guys, you might have to use wagner for the 8th or 9th in a blow out because he is being underused the Mets need to forget this and just go on. When it was 4-0 the Mets thought they won and they forgot there was 5 Innings left as Much as this makes me Sick All i can say is that you gotta believe in OUR TEAM AS A WHOLE from david Wright to the worst guy
LETS GO METS
LETS GO METS
LEts GO METS
if you got a guy who makes millions of dollars and doesnt pitch well he is going to play.
Fire Willie Randolph ASAP.
He is an unintelligent, gutless, moronic, and unmotivational manager.
He is not suit for the N.L or any managing job for that matter.
He is a broken record in his post games. We the fans, deserve more details and answers.
Willie had NO explanation for the double switch garbage last night. Not even Evan Roberts and Joe B could figure it out.
Get rid of him. And do it now. He is an absolute abomination of a manager.
Just keep sitting there Willie. Don’t talk to your players. Don’t get angry. Just keep sitting there…as if this is the white collar 98 Yankee machine. The guy is an empty uniform.
Everyone was awful. Has Aaron Sele pitched an inning this year without giving up a run?
Check out my blog and vote on the latest poll.
http://www.therantman888.blogspot.com
Good idea. Right now is perfect because we are still in first place! Who should manage this team?
BOBBY FRIGGING VALENTINE.
Oh yeah, because Bobby V’s teams always played well in September.
Willie won World Series under Billy Martin and won World Series coaching with Joe Torre. He’s obviously chosen Torre as the model he wants to follow for success based on his lifetime of major league experience. It didn’t always work for Torre, it may not be working right now for Willie. Team meetings and turning over the buffet table have short-lived effects.
How many of us need our managers to scream and yell at us to perform our jobs?
Well, those of us that aren’t reading Metsblog all day……
Wille has that same stupid look on his face that as a Jets fan I saw from Herman Edwards. Its that dazed, clueless look. What makes it worse is that while I only had to see it for 16 games a year with Herman I get to see it for 162 with Willie.
That is too funny, I was thinking the same thing…
“We play to win the game….” No sh*t, Herm…
Maybe if my manager screamed at me, I would do some work and would be productive rather than sit here talking on Metsblog all day. But until that day…
FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH FIRE WILLIE RANDOLPH
I might get some $5 seats for Monday’s return home and take some FIRE WILLIE signs to shea!
All they need to do tonight is win simple as that even if philly wins and they dont gain ground in the standings the magic number goes down and they can win the series tomorrow. Tonight is definitely a must win and probably the biggest must win of the season to date, luckily it is against the nationals so there is NO EXCUSE, none, i dont care whos hurt, whos injured, whos nervous whatever, you are playing the nationals they are terrible, beat them and all this goes away…..beat the worst team in the league is that too much to ask for?
Hopefully Padilla and Sanchez come back strong next year, but Randolph has a flawed bullpen to work with at this point. That said, he’s managing it poorly. Sele and Mota are done–using them only gives the team a sinking feeling. Sosa cannot be allowed to face a lefty in a key situation, same for Schoenweis for a righty. Feliciano and Heilman are your late inning guys, for better or for worse. As I’ve mentioned, Humber should be in the rotation and this point, and Pelfrey should be in the Pen. A rotation of Glavine, Maine, Perez, Pedro, and Humber is fine, and we’ll get back to 6 men in the rotation when El Duque returns. Why Lawrence was allowed to start such a crucial game is beyond me. Why Sele was brought in, equally so.
Randolph is putting this team in a mental position to fail with his strategic decisions. The mental confidence side of this game is oft underestimated as we carve through stats. You could see it on the field yesterday. It is up to Randolph to adjust and give this team its swagger back. If he can’t, then time for a change.
Where has Omar been?
When they decided to go with Lawrence did he tell them he wanted to see Humber get a start? Or maybe he was the one who pushed for Lawrence. Omar certainly hasn’t shown any eagerness to give Humber a shot as evidenced by the first time they brought Lawrence up this year. They could just as easily have called up Humber. But Omar didn’t.
Has Omar told Willie he only wanted to see Mota and Sele in mopup situations now that the callups are here? Or is he too unwilling to admit his own mistakes?
I find it odd that people ask for Willie’s firing and don’t ask for Omar’s as well. He’s as much if not more responsible for this slide as Willie is. Because as I see it, the bullpen has been the main reason for these last 4 losses, as well as the previous sweep in Philadelphia, and Omar was the one who put this marvelous bullpen together.
But I know the Willie bashers would rather dump on him while giving Omar a coat of teflon. Instead they want Willie to use Feliciano as a ROOGY, Show as a LOOGY, Mota and Sele hardly ever at all, and Heilman rarely. Meantime, they need relievers for 3-4 innings almost every night because Mets starters don’t last too long. So who’s supposed to pitch all those innings? Ghosts? Most of the whining and second guessing has been irrational.
Give Willie a decent bullpen and most of the problems would go away.
So if Willie should get fired, so should Omar. Just like in 2002 when Bobby V and Phillips both deserved to be fired at the same time, Omar and Willie are both to blame now. Omar even more than Willie.
Talk is cheap now, its crunch time there is no other way to say it, we win this series or its over. Physcologically If the marlins come here smelling blood, then its over.
Im scared now and the phillies have my respect, no bashing, they have put up big time.
I agree 100%. Both need to be closely looked at!
I would give Omar 1 more off-season to do something and Willie has this post-season to prove himself.
As I told you before, I know Willie isn’t the greatest strategic manager. How come Omar doesn’t know this? If he does, how come he brings back Lawrence after the Zephyrs’ season ended? He didn’t need to. He could have just said goodbye. So you have to assume Omar is on board for many of these moves, if not the one actually pushing them.
I think both Omar and Willie should be given at least one more season. And I think that will happen. When Willie is no longer manager, I’d love to see Carter, Fonzie’s brother, and Oberkfell all get a shot at the job. No more ex-Yankees and that includes Girardi.
BTW, I only used the email address associated with the old Metsblog for that one blog. So I never saw the email you sent a few months ago until I checked that inbox the other day when signing up for Metsblog 2.0. Sorry about that.
As I told you before, I know Willie isn’t the greatest strategic manager. How come Omar doesn’t know ? If he does, how come he brings back Lawrence after the Zephyrs’ season ended? He didn’t need to. He could have just said goodbye. So you have to assume Omar is on board for many of these moves, if not actually pushing them.
I think both Omar and Willie should be given at least one more season. When it’s time for a new manager, I’d love to see Carter, Fonzie’s brother, and Oberkfell all get a shot at the job. No more ex-Yankees and that includes Girardi!
Ugh, it seems my reply is not getting through so I’m going to try something new…
part I:
As I told you before, I know Randolph isn’t the greatest strategic manager. How come Minaya doesn’t know ? If he does, how come he brings back Lawrence after the Zephyrs’ season ended? He didn’t need to. He could have just said goodbye. So you have to assume Omar is on board for many of these moves, if not actually pushing them.
NYC, my reply to you got caught in the spam filter and I have no clue why. I tried to post it a few times to no avail.
BTW, I only used the email address associated with the old Metsblog for that one blog. So I never saw the email you sent a few months ago until I checked that inbox the other day when signing up for for this new site. Sorry about that.
I think that Omar’s mishandling of the bullpen is a contributing factor in this team’s second nascent collapse of the year, BUT, when a group of players loses an 8 game lead in mid-September, something is wrong with the team’s mindset and/or focus. A poster above said it best. If Willie isn’t providing strategy, and he isn’t providing “character” in the face of adversity, what is he providing? His supporters are essentially grasping at irrefutable propositions — “it’s all of the things you don’t see that make him special”, it’s getting the most out of his players, etc. Well, that’s great, but aside from Wright, from whom is he “getting the most”? They have not sustained a winning streak all year — a single five gamer (admittedly in a critical spot.) The relief pitchers are all tanking simultaneously. It’s marginally laughable to credit his “resting” of players through the season as evidence of his wisdom when those players are playing sloppy baseball down the stretch. He was preparing them for what, a collapse?
TMU, it wasn’t me who lauded Willie for “resting” guys. His strength is more the intangibles — how he communicates with guys, motivates them (Maine), teaches them (Reyes) … things like that. Could others do that? Maybe, but BV didn’t do such a great job of it.
If the Mets collapse continues and they don’t make the playoffs, then you can put a lot of the blame on the manager. But blame the GM too for giving him a stinker of a bullpen. The bullpen has been at the center of this late season collapse. IOW, if you’re going to fire anyone, fire TWO people.
Omar’s not getting fired anytime soon, and neither is Willie. He was unfortunate enough to cave into media pressure and give Randolph a contract extension, and I doubt the Mets are gonna eat that money without giving Slick Willie another year at least, postseason or no.
Still not seeing how Omar gets fired for giving Willie the best available players. Omar’s got nothing to do with how those players are used.
Sorry but if you think Sele, Schoeneweis and Mota were the best available players, then you’ve got blinders on.
Omar’s got everything to do with the aging players on this team which has as much or more to do with the lack of energy and malaise infecting the players as the personality of the manager.
Yeah, but now that they see what they have in Shoe and Mota, that doesnt mean Willie has to use them. They have other internal options(Smith, Collazo, etc).
Before the callups and when he was being bashed for using Mota and Schoeneweis, he had no choice but to use them.
Sure, the callups give him more flexibility. But what was he going to do about a game like last night’s? He ended up having to use Smith, Collazo and Schoeneweis. And in case you haven’t noticed, Smith and Collazo have been pretty shaky so far.
Sure before the callups, he didnt have a choice. Now he does.
And he sure showed alot of faith in Collazo and Smith, waiting for the game to be pretty much over to use them. Nice of him to give Collazo all of 2 batters in the 7th, after he gave up a 1 out double, to show what he’s got.
And if you look closely at Collazo, he’s pitched poorly in only 1 of the 5 games he pitched in, inflating his ERA. And Smith has pitched in 2 games since his recall, giving up nothing in his first outing. Again, how is this worse than Mota, et all. At least the potential is there.
As I told you before, I know Willie isn’t the greatest strategic manager. How come Omar doesn’t know ? If he does, how come he brings back Lawrence after the Zephyrs’ season ended? He didn’t need to. He could have just said goodbye. So you have to assume Omar is on board for many of these moves, if not actually pushing them.
I think both Omar and Willie should be given at least one more season. When it’s time for a new manager, I’d love to see Carter, Fonzie’s brother, and Oberkfell all get a shot at the job. No more ex-Yankees and that includes Girardi!
BTW, I only used the email address associated with the old Metsblog for that one blog. So I never saw the email you sent a few months ago until I checked that inbox the other day when signing up for for this new site. Sorry about that.
i have tickets to the 2nd to last game of the year im hoping ill be watching a spring training game as they will have clinched but if by some terrible turn of events they are behind I will bring a “fire willie, then fire yourself omar” sign to shea.
I’m starting to wonder how Kent Oberkfell would look in the Mets’ dugout next season….
Matt:
Lets see – when we the fans say that Willie needs to actually start motivating this team in a more “direct” fashion, we are told we don’t know what we are talking about because we are not in the locker room.
Now when at least two current Met’s players (who presumably ARE in the locker room) say the same thing, yoo pooh pooh that as well.
Apparently it is down to you and two former players “both of whom are considered to be among this organization’s most respected leaders from the past” who beleive that Willie is not derelict in his duty at this point.
This is the time that leaders lead, and Willie is apparently bored, if not asleep, at the wheel.
NY Cuban,
As I told previously, I know Randolph isn’t the greatest strategic manager. How come Omar doesn’t know ? If he does, how come he brings back Lawrence after the Zephyrs’ season ended? He didn’t need to. He could have just said goodbye. So you have to assume he’s on board for many of these moves, if not actually pushing them.
I think both Omar and Willie should be given at least one more season. When it’s time for a new manager, I’d love to see Carter, Fonzie’s brother, and Oberkfell all get a shot at the job. No more ex-Yankees and that includes Girardi!
BTW, I only used the email address associated with the old Metsblog for that one blog. So I never saw the email you sent a few months ago until I checked that inbox the other day when signing up for for this new site. Sorry about that.
What about Lee Mazzilli? He was a Met before he was with the Yankees. Maz has what it takes he had a bad team in Baltimore. He would kick this teams butt and he would relish the opportunity……..
Omar had bad vision trading heath bell and royce ring, letting bradford go to the orioles and trading bannister for burgos. At the trade deadline, he absolutely should have tried to improve the bullpen via a trade rather than get castillo. We could have survived without castillo. The bullpen will now cost us more than getting castillo has helped.
Thats hindsight talking. Bell had pitched poorly for the Mets in the 2 prior big league seasons, and Ring had never made the club. Minaya did the right thing letting Bradford go, 3 years, over 3 million for a righthanded specialist? No thank you, especially since they had a clone of him waiting in the wings. Compare the two, the stats are almost equal(WHIP and ERA), at a fraction of the cost.
So, why exactly are the Mets paying Willie millions of dollars? I guess it’s to sit on the bench and smile. Nothing is ever Willie’s responsibility nor his job. Willie is a puppet, pull his string and here Willie say “you have to tip your cap to the other team”, “he is my man”, and “I believe in my guys.” I wish Willie was my boss. It would be great coming to work everyday knowing everytime i screw up I know my boss is going to pat me on the back and tell me everything is going to be ok. The top CEO’s are not only smart but great motivators. Maybe it’s not Willie responsibility but that’s one of the qualities of a GREAT manager and that’s why Willie is just your run of the mill manager.