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…the buzz around the new york media this afternoon seems to be that we will all know tomorrow, definitively, whether Willie 
Randolph will or will not be back as manager of the Mets next season…
…from what i can gather, while most media personalities assume willie will be back, and feel he should be back, there is an odd soap opera being played out right now, while willie twists in the wind…
…if you notice, Omar Minaya has yet to officially announce randolph’s future, despite holding court on two occasions since the season officially ended yesterday afternoon…from what i can gather, omar wants willie back, and will recommend so to ownership in a meeting that is probably still going on…the thing is, the decision ultimately belongs to ownership, and not omar…by the way, i thought omar had full autonomy…oops, guess not, because if he did he wouldn’t he just come out and say, ‘willie’s staying.’…however, he isn’t stating that…instead, minaya keeps repeating that he supports willie, and likes willie, etc, and by doing so he is basically letting the public know that if the manager is fired, a) it was not his decision, so don’t blame him if you’re unhappy, and b) if it happens, he does not come off looking like a liar…very political, by the way…
…if you remember, last week i wrote that, the way i hear it, the rift essentially breaks down as follows: any one who played professional baseball, such as omar, appreciate and believe in willie, while those who have never played the game, i.e., ownership, are disappointed in willie’s in-game strategy and blame him for the team’s lack of focus and fire since last year’s NLCS…this is not to say omar has blind faith in willie, it’s just that i sense he believes in willie’s overall approach and he believes he has a winner’s mentality…on the flip side, the team’s other executives only see the results on the field, and they’re essentially freaking out, understandably to some extent, as they’re looking down the barrel of a new stadium, a television network, and a ton of pressure to not blow this…
By the way, in a report for CNN.com, Chris Isidore explains how the Mets will likely lose roughly $15 million in revenue due to not making the post-season.
…either way, they all meet today, and since the playoffs start on Wednesday, if willie is to be dismissed, it more or less needs to be announced tomorrow…and if he’s staying, which i still think he is, they’ll make that announcement tomorrow, as well, probably when minaya appears as a guest on WFAN around 2 pm, so that it comes off in a more casual, less dire way…
Lastly, according to a MetsBlog.com poll of more than 3,100 of the team’s fans, 66 percent of those polled would like to see Randolph return in 2008, while only 33 percent prefer he be fired.
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i go to sleep tonite in dire anticipation. the future of the mets is at steak, with the worst manager the Mets have ever known in limbo. god i’ll be happy as a boy on christmas morning when I wake up to the news report that Willie is canned.
The worst manager? What? Unless you’re like me who often times blocks out the Art Howe era in his head, how can you even come up with a comment like that?
art howe: back to back runner up for manager of the year.
took oakland teams with minimal payrolls to division titles.
willie randolph: 2004 choke of the year, 2006 choke of the year, 2007 choke of the year. guides talent packed teams with mega payrolls to 2nd place division finishes, including worse records than the rockies and padres.
howe any day
I don’t know if you noticed but we are the NEW YORK METS NOT OAKLND ATHLETICS. Stop comparing Willie to Howe when he coached the A’s. Compare these two coaches when they coached the Mets.
How can you say 2004 was a choke of the year, he took a Met team that was below 500 the year before to over 500. 2006 choke of the year are you serious, do us all a favor root dor the Phils.
no, 2004 willie didnt choke for the mets. he was just part of the biggest choke in sports history with the yankees.
ok, fine, ill compare howe with the mets to willie:
willie: beltran, wright, reyes, delgado, pedro, wagner, lo duca (made an all-star game), and a pair of 15 game winners this year, not to mention rotation depth.
howe: jason phillips, john franco, kaz matsui, mike cameron, richard hidalgo, trachsel, leiter, jae seo, matt ginter
be serious….
I guess you missed the Joe Frazier years…..
George Bamberger
Joe Torre’s Met tenure was nothing to right home about either…the most the team ever won then was 67 games…
LOSERS!
I do agree that Willies’s in game decisions DID cost us more than a few games and that those few games woul dhave put us in the playoffs. I also think that he lost the team at some point after the All-Star break. It seemed that the team did not have that fire and the heart to play hard and win. Once they fell behind it was over and even a lead would find a way to cause another loss. We had our best chance in 2006 and blew it we had another chance this year and blew it again. The season was gift wrapped for us with 7 games against sub 500 teams at home and we couldnt get it done. When we make changes during the off season will we still be confident enough to make knock off the team to beat in 2008? Im not sure. How much more can we do that what was done in 2006 and 2007? Willie just could not get this team over the hump. Do you guys think that Bobby Cox is a good manager? He took the Braves to the playoffs 14 years in a row and only has 1 ring to show for it. Would you take that as a Met fan? If Willie is gone the only manager I would support in his place is Gary Carter. If he is not available then keep Willie.
atleast theres something to look foward too, i cant take it, we shouldve been playing tomorow vs the rockies or padres but no were sitting home thinking about this short season that we put so much effort into 162 times 3 is 486 hours woahhh
the problem is the people on this board showed more effort than the players…we don’t deserve to play another day.
I don’t think he’s going anywhere. I think he’s going to have to clamp down on his players next year. All the stern looks and such are not going to get it done. What happened to the days when Reyes would make a mistake and immediately go an apologize to Willie? Now he just seems defiant. There’s something that has changed and I don’t know what it is. I can only suspect that Jose no longer fears Willie.
Who knows. I just hope it changes before Jose’s ruined as a player.
Not only do they not fear Willie, they do not respect him anymore. I got the feeling that they were waiting for him to give them the speech that was going to restore order, but he never did. Combine that with an average of 1.3 plays per game where the announcers seriously question a move Randolph is making, and its obvious he deserves to be fired. Whether he does or not is something else, but the bottom line is that he has not improved 1 inch since becoming manager, and will not. Bring him back next year and you will see the exact same thing, mark my words.
If Willie was fired, there would be a silver lining to this abomination.
He needs to go. He couldn’t pull this team out of it’s collapse and he’s part of the reason why they’re there. He never did a good job; Omar did. This isn’t Willie’s team; it’s Omar’s. Willie rode an overachieving team in 2005. Then a good team in a weak league last year. But when the game was on the line in Game 7, he didn’t know what to do.
This year he lost the players. He let them coast to the end. He needs to go. He got this team the 2nd worst collapse in history. Bobby V had worse teams and they got into the playoffs.
This team did not just collapse in the last 2 weeks. Its was lethargic and uninspired for 4 months. We just weren’t that good people! The only reason we even hung around first as long as we did was because the Phils and Braves sucked worse that we did.
Wow, they scored something like over 6 runs a game down the stretch. September and August were their two highest scoring months. Yup, guess they coasted. :roll:
Nah, more like a bullpen collapse plus poor performances by the starters down the stretch due to tired, old or hurt pitchers.
don’t forget June.. turned out it was a precursor of things to come
i would like to how omar did a good job? resigning moto, pushing pelfrey up to majors before he was ready, not having a better right fielder than greenie, not bolstering the rotation w/ a quality arm before the start of the season. the gm did nothing , outside of signing alou, to make this team better this year.
what we DONT want to turn this into is this becoming a situaton like the Oakland A’s and physco billy beane. OMAR CANNOT BE “THE TEAM” CHAOS WILL COME . trust me
If they decide to show Willie the door I hope they have something lined up. At least a short list of candidates. Firing him for the sake of firing him will reflect poorly on the decision makers, whomever they may be. I think Minaya and crew were able to get off easy with the Rick Down situation since they eventually installed a well known franchise face.
I’m sure all the sports cliches would apply (i.e. You can’t fire 25 players but you can fire a manager/The players essentially got the coach fired/etc.), but without other personnel moves, particularly in the pitching staff this team can’t expect to make signifcant improvements next year.
There should only be 1 man on their list.
******** JOE GIRARDI *******
The man to bring the Met’s back to their first glory days since Bobby V!!
tbs is really coming through with these playoffs on tbs everybody loves raymond is on and the rockies/pads r on in 15 minutes
When you make a personnel change by choice, as would be the decision to dismiss Randolph (unless he steps down on his own) it’s important to consider the pool of talent ready to step in.
Is there a manager available who can do better with the mix of talent the Mets will be able to field next year?
Frankly, Randolph did not get the job done in 2007. He cannot point to injuries or lack of talent. His bullpen was light, but so was every other team’s, so this was an equalizing factor. He had a great starting lineup, an amazingly deep bench, four highly competent starters.
Yet, no post season.
Someone’s head must roll to atone for Bloody September. Management is accountable for final results. They should get no free pass in this instance.
however, he isn’t stating that…instead, minaya keeps repeating that he supports willie, and likes willie, etc, and by doing so he is basically letting the public know that if the manager is fired, a) it was not his decision, so don’t blame him if you’re unhappy, and b) if it happens, he does not come off looking like a liar…very political, by the way
No goddammit. NO!
I don’t want either old man Wilpon or Junior Wilpon making this call. If Omar is the man with “full autonomy” then I want this to be HIS decision (which he should augment by letting Willie have his own staff if he stays but that is another discussion thread)
This is Omar’s show here, for good or ill. If they fail it want it to fall on 1 set of hands, not a collection- that’s how debacles like Kazmir trade happens, too many meddlers.
Wilpons, please write the checks and shut up. If you want to fire the GM you can but anything else baseball related is HIS play.
I’m sick of front office idiocy on this team. Let Omar run with it and that’s that.
omar doesn’t have the balls to make this on his own. that’s why he is looking for daddy wilpon to bail him out. omar’s looking for the smoke screen to hide the fact he did nothing to help the team reach its goals.
If Willie goes (never wanted him in the first place) who could possibly be our next manager? I have heard many names thrown around already, but I would like to hear everyone’s thoughts.
As much as it pains me to say it, since he played a role in 1988, I’d go with Mike Sciosia. Definitely won’t happen but he’s got the NL playing experience, plays an NL style game in the AL and has won a world series as a manager.
I would love to get Mike in here, I think he is the most underrated manager in the Majors. If there is any possbillity to get him go for it Minaya.
ANY OF YOU who are standing up for Willie ARE F**I*#&# retarded. The players DO NOT RESPECT Willie……of course they wont say it. HE IS WAY TO PASSIVE TO manage in NY, it works for Torre but not with the current Mets…… The players have no confidence (see Paul LoDuca’s interview 3 weeks back) in Willie. Jose Reyes not runnng balls out, theres no excuse. Lou Pinella would have killed someone if they do that. Willie softness refects on the field. We need a hardass in there. I love Willie as a guy but he is not hte right fit for this team.
I do not want Willie fired. IF he were to be fired I would like Frank Robinson or Felipe Alou. The players will certainly respect both of those guys and will listen. They are sound fundamentally as managers and the players always seem to play and like them as managers.
To mention a few names that would be exciting but not realistic
Davey Johnson
Whitey Herzog (j/k)
One guy who I love is Mark Grace……
What is everyone’s feelings on HoJo? Just a thought, not seasoned enough for the job> I think they need a veteran in there. Phil Garner anyone?
would love to see Davey back
I don’t know about you guys, but I hope Omar gives Bobby Valentine some consideration. At least with Bobby V, you know he’s gonna have his players backs, you know he’s gonna tell you what he’s thinking, and you know his players aren’t going to get complacent. I know a lot of people hated him, but I always loved the energy he brought with him, which is something that has been lacking the past 6 years.
couldn’t agree more. I love Bobby V and he would be my first choice.
AMEN…I SECOND YOUR RECOMMENDATION. ONE THING ABOUT BOBBY, HE HAD BASEBALL REASONS FOR HIS DECISIONS…NOT “GUT” FEELINGS.
Wow, talk about a manager players didn’t like, Bobby V is your man!
Sure, lets go out and get a manager whose players lost 12 games in a row under him, disliked him intensely, and lost his clubhouse.
and to continue – a manger that no free agent wanted to play for…
outside of the mustache prank, he is a top flight manager
[...] Fire Willie Randolph! MetsBlog says tomorrow, Omar Minaya will meet with ownership to discuss the future of the team. So a [...]
I don’t understand why Willie gets a pass from some fans. His only strong point as a manager is that he had been able to get the players to play hard, smart ball. Well, down the stretch he failed. As everyone knows he is a terrible in-game manager. From pitching to Ryan Howard with a base open on Opening Day at Shea (he hit a HR) to not squeezing in the bottom of the eight with one out in a tie game with Gomez and Reyes on base, he just consistently makes the wrong move. If I hear Omar or anyone else say that he’s a winner, I’m going to scream. He may have been a winner as a player and a coach, but not as a manager! The Mets just can not keep him after the disgraceful way the team player down the stretch. Someone MUST be accountable and as Pres. Truman said: “The buck stops here!”
FIRE WILLIE…HIRE MANNY ACTA OR FRANK ROBINSON…OR SWALLOW YOUR PRIDE FRED AND BRING BACK BOBBY V.
Agreed on all points!
acta is signed for 2 more years in Wash.
i’m still numb right now
the postseason was basically a lock
the phillies? get the f outta here.
this team messed around too much, and got burned
but i will say this, the phillies made a pact with the devil
they used romero,gordon,and myers it seemed like every day
guys there overachived (rowand,werth,burrell,ruiz,victorino,dobbs)
next year its going to be a problem for them, because they got lucky this time around.
i wish we were that “lucky”
Two words: Joe Girardi.
And, Omar, how about getting some pitching in the off-seson?
two words: no way.
i could not possibly think of a worse fit for this team. he’s overrated as you can get, he would never be able to manage the egos on this team.
Bobby V is the only man I could think of that can work for this team, if we can’t get him, as much as it pains me to say it, Willie should stay.
That being said, I don’t think he will stay and I’m fine with that, I just hope they make the right choice to replace him (ahem Valentine ahem)
I never knew a man who took one of the worst teams in baseball to an outside chance of the post season was so overrated. The only reason he got canned is because he had the balls to tell the Marlins owner to get his ass back in the box where he belonged and stop meddling. Thats exactly what we need. Not someone who thinks hes Joe Torre without the championships
Don’t Fire Willie Fire the Mets Fans
I am so tired of the New York Mets melodrama that has plagued this team since the Wilpons took full control.
I just looked at a couple of articles from the past and this all seems so eerily similar and for one i am sick of it
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E00E3D81038F931A35753C1A9649C8B63
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/23/sports/baseball/23mets.html?n=Top%2FReference%2FTimes%20Topics%2FPeople%2FW%2FWilpon%2C%20Fred
the things that stick out for me are “meaningful games” which Wilie kept referring too and
“making a commitment to developing young players”
if fred can stick to his own guns
willie must be gone
*there have been 13 mets managers. willie has the #2 winning % all-time after davey johnson
*there are currently 30 managers in the majors. willie has the #2 career winning % after bobby cox
meet the facts, meet the facts
step right up and greet the facts
:)
Without question, the smartest comment of the week.
I’m surprised you haven’t been run ot of town by the lynch mob, Zen. Watch your back.
I for 1 have Zens back on this.
thanks. i’ve found that if you stick with the facts you can’t go wrong. if you notice fans who critic willie talk about their “feelings” not the facts.
for example: it’s often said that willie is not an nl manager. well, the facts are that the mets were #1 in stolen bases, #1 in sac flies, and #2 in sac-bunts.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=sacFlies&split=0&group=8&season=2007&seasonType=2&statType=batting&type=exp1
not let’s get some PITCHING
Here’s a fact….Zen also said Willie would be the first manager to guide the Mets to back to back division titles.
How’s that champagne tasting, Willie?
But I forgot, your screen name is Zen, not Nostradamus.
no, i’m not nostradamus.
and you’re not a smart man.
Anyone who thinks willie has done even a decent job has no clue about strategic baseball, let alone his ability to motivate his players and not stand for blase attitudes.
Strategically, he cost them at least 4-5 games. They won 88 in spite of him, not because of him. Managing, a lineup, bullpen, or bench? Not even close. Strategic moves? For someone in MLB for 30+ years to make or not make moves that are fundemental baseball is sickening. My Sunday morning softball team uses more stategy to win our games than Willie used.
Carlos Gomez starting this week instead of Lastings? Come on. A roster spot for Newhan, and actually using him to pnch hit? Sandy Alomar Jr.?
Bye Willie, your season has come, and gone.
Starrman i think you should apply for the job
If the Mets keep Willie which I hope they dont then they need to send the players a message by getting rid of some veterans begining with Delgado. Show them that they stand behind Willie and no player is safe so they better wake up, play hard or they will be next. I dont think the Mets would be able to swallow their pride and bring back Bobby V but I would support that move 100%. He may be a little wacky and over manage but he sure knows baseball and it is better than under managing (see Randolph).
Please Matt – Explain how anybody can even consider bringing a manager back after seeing these quotes. As a fan since 1962, I was appalled, absolutely appalled to read these in the middle of a September pennant run
NY Daily News September 26th
Randolph’s stoic demeanor came under fire as the Mets started to stumble. Those sentiments were fanned when the manager said that if the team didn’t reach the postseason “so be it.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2007/09/26/2007-09-26_willie_randolph_omar_minaya_show_united_.html
NY Times September 17th
In saying, “If we smell the roses and sip some Champagne, so be it; if not, that’s life,” before another sloppy and lackluster loss, this one Monday night to the Washington Nationals, 12-4
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/sports/baseball/18mets.html?ref=sports
Please address this issue Matt. Nobody else seems to address it. Thank You! Great blog
Nah, you got guys like Zen and VCarver who want to keep a manager who can’t get his team to play above .500 for the month of September the ENTIRE TIME HE’S BEEN HERE.
you’re not a smart man
By the way, anyone remeber last year in game 7 when we had a guy on 2nd with no one out in the bottom of the 9th, and instead of sacrificing him to third, Willie brought in an injured stiff Cliff Floyd, who struck out. The runner never scored and we lost in extras. That at bat cost us the pennant. Thanks Willie. Enough said.
Obviously you don’t remember Game 7 cause we didn’t lose in extras.
Too bad he listened to Manuel who persuaded him not to bunt in that situation.
Oh wait, didn’t some of you say Manuel was a better manager?
Oh, and Jerry Manuel was chosen by Omar, no?
That song is tired, dude. Final decision is Willie’s. He could have said “NO”.
Its nice to have some of the more rational people coming back to the site.
Keep Willie and Fire the Mets Fan
This soap opera that the WIlpons have presented over the past 5 years is wearing thin on me.
Omar has control he doesn’t have control.
We are committed to developing a core of young players
(yet no one values the mets farm system at all)
from ny times article feb 23, 2005
Wilpon said he was making a commitment to developing young players and would add big-money veterans only if the team was in contention. Then the Mets traded four of their best prospects and signed perhaps the two highest-profile free agents on the market.
Wilpon said the team hoped to play “meaningful games,” and the catchphrase became a butt of jokes when another sorry September rolled around. He promises never to use the term “meaningful games” again.
Must have gotten Fred in the craw to hear Willie saying that’s what it is all about playing meaningful games in septermber
are we being taken for another ride on this insincere roller coaster called the New York Mets?
66% of metsblog readership feel Wiilie should be retained? where were they this weekend because almost every comment I read…and wrote, was calling for Willie’s head!
Vcarver and Zen voted 1000 times….
you’re not a smart man or should i say boy.
it’s called a silent majority. half-wits like you post 20 times on these threads spewing venom at willie. you can look that up in the dictionary.
somebody’s head MUST roll for this travesty. it should be the yankee pig.
We aren’t lucky enough to be rid of the Willie-era. See you all on opening day 2008 for another disappointing season with Bernie the corpse, Oh, I mean Willie.
hey everyone,
this is my first time commenting on the site, so let me start by saying thank you to matt, dj, mike, regis, evan, anthony, joe and everyone else who put in the hard work that gives someone like me (a person who currently lives outside of the nyc area) a place to celebrate, commiserate, and debate everything mets.
like everyone else here these last few weeks have been a roller coaster ride of emotions for me (including but not limited to: anger, disgust, hope, disappointment, happiness, embarrassment…etc). and to be honest more than anything else all i wish is that there was some way we could fast fwd to next april so that i can have the bad taste of yesterday washed out of my mouth.
that said, as things currently stand i think that an objective look at the mets roster (not to mention the phillies and braves projected teams next year) could very easily see further regression if management isn’t careful with how they proceede this off-seson.
so, in the interest of trying to give us something to talk about today other than having to continue reliving the misery of the past few weeks any longer here are some of my thoughts into how we can hopefully field a team next year capable of getting back to the postseason.
1. keep willie randolph — while i know this idea is sure to provoke a lot of negative responses, i still think he is the best person AT THE MOMENT for the job. let him pick his ENTIRE coaching staff, give him autonomy to run the clubhouse as he sees fit, and place the responsibility of keeping the team focused next year squarely on his shoulders.
which isn’t to say that there shouldn’t be some blood spilled to appease those of us who want the proverbial heads to roll. i have no problem saying goodbye to tom glavine as he returns to atl (though i’ll probably curse him once again as he goes 17-7 next year for them).
but even more than that i think ownership would be wise to figure some way to get rid of mota. if they’re lucky enough to find someone stupid enough to take on all or part of his contract then great trade him even if it’s for abosulete garbage. otherwise, cut him, buy him out, whatever, so long as he’s not on next year’s team. it was a disgrace (not to mention foolish) that we offered someone coming off a steroid suspenion a backloaded two year contract before having any idea whether or not his performance was affected by the ped’s.
so, to atone for that show us that you’re willing to eat the money of his contract and make sure he is never again pitching in a game for this franchise (heck, i don’t even care if he has a decent year next year – his failures in key spots, to me were, along with glavine blowing it down the stretch and reyes’ decline the most emblematic parts of why this team failed and thus he must go).
2. prospects — time to take a long hard look at some of these so called “untouchables” who our scouts seem to have valued higher than most other people around the league. for all the complaining i read and heard from people wanting to know why the yankees infused their team with players like hughes, kennedy, and chamberlain and we did nothing of the sort, ask yourself if guys like pelfrey and humber are actually as talented as those guys across town.
the reality is humber is still working to overcome the setbacks of tj surgery and as such probably shouldn’t even have been starting at the end of the year against the nats (on the other hand trading him straight up for jon rauch would have probably been very helpful).
and as far as pelfrey goes, he has one pitch that he has trouble controlling, not the kind of stuff that a top of the rotation pitcher should possess. meanwhile guerra is still 2-3 years away, and mulvey is prob. 2 years at best. is it worth saying that all 4 of these guys are untouchable when the reality of not knowing when or if they’ll be able to perform at the major league level is so uncertain.
personally, i think projecting next year, humber has the better potential to be a starting pitcher who can help our rotation get both younger and better. he has a fantastic curve ball that is an out pitch and if he can work off that with a 91mph fastball and an improving change-up he’ll be able to get big league hitters out more than once through the lineup.
i think the mets should consider putting pelfrey into the bullpen to start next year if he doesn’t CLEARLY distinguish himself in spring training. let him get a years worth of experience at the big league level and work on refining either the slider or change. even without two plus pitches, his “stuff” is definitely good enough to allow him to face an inning’s worth of hitters once each game.
but either one of them (along with guerra and mulvey) should and must be moved if it helps to land us a young but proven major league level player.
2A – the overcrowded outfield — as it currently stands the mets have 3 young outfield prospects (fmart, gomez, and i’ll include milledge as a prospect because he still hasn’t played a full year in the bigs and thus we can’t say for certain what type of numbers he’s capable of — though his maturity level is certainly still minor leagues). when you include beltran in the mix that’s 4 players for 3 spots = time to pick and choose. the mets need to choose 2 of these 4 as keepers and the other 2 need to be used to upgrade the front of the rotation or bullpen.
now, i’m not a talent evaluator so i have no idea how gomez, milledge, and fmart will eventually perform…but one thing is for certain it will take all of them several-quite a few years before they reach the point of being able to truly contribute at the major league level.
so thinking that fmart and gomez are going to definitely be able to patrol left and right in ‘09 and be anything more than young uneven and occassionally mistake prone seems unreasonable given the results to their seasons this year (milledge who is clearly the furthest along talent wise, at least offensively, is also probably the most likely to continue to do the types of things that helped contribute to this teams demise…don’t know if it’s worth it or not to pay that price).
3. Pitching – as stated, we need to get younger and find people capable of giving more than 6 innings per start. clearly Pedro is staying and will be the de facto number 1 starter next year, even if he is no longer in possession of ace stuff.
Maine and Ollie stay and hopefully both can continue to improve on their successes this year. personally, i’m more inclined to believe that Maine has the chance to be a #2 pitcher as his failures this year can be attributed (right or wrong) to his never before pitching a full year and tiring out as the season went along. I think his last start, one of the finest performances a pitcher has ever given this franchise, was evidence of his adrenaline and big game situation making up for the lack of gas in the tank. I also think he lost focus after (again right or wrong) his not being named to the all-star team. next year he should be able to improve on these issues and I can see him winning 17+ games with 200innings, 200k’s and a sub 4 era.
Perez on the other hand seems to me like he will always dazzle and confound. He’s basically a slightly better left handed version of Victor Zambrano. yes, he’ll pitch great for stretches of the season, but you can mark him down for the occassional 3 2/3 disaster. Still given his stuff and his make-up I have no problem with him as the #3.
1 of Humber or Pelfrey gets a slot.
Which leaves 1 spot that has to come from outside the organization, and it can’t be a free agent as the pickings are thin.
Duque should either be sent on his way or he should be the uprgrade for Sele in the bullpen as the long man.
Joe Smith will hopefully also be able to remain effective for a full season next year.
Schoenweiss is (thanks to the contract) staying put – which is okay if they use him mostly against lefties.
Wagner stays though my confidence in him to get the big outs is at the moment only slightly higher than the confidence i had in Looper – which isn’t saying much…though it’s still higher than Benitez territory.
I’d resign Sosa as a set up guy, and then not overuse him or expect him to get key lefties out.
And think about using both Heilman (who other teams still value as a potential starter – though i think at best he’s a mediocre .500 starter or a 7th reliever) and Feliciano (who was probably our best relief pitcher other than Wagner this year – but who suffered from being overworked towards the end of the year and who also is most easily replaceable if trying to find a lefty specialist) as trade bait if it can help improve another part of the roster.
Maybe Collazo, Muniz, or Kunz can help out to varying degrees.
And then I’d try to find 1 guy who can be the 8th inning heir to Wagner. At the moment this person doesn’t seem to be in our orgazination and so will need to be acquired via trade.
4. Odds and Ends — bring back Alou. yes, he’ll miss anywhere between 2-3 months, but his bat is too good to be replaced and his option is for reasonable dollars. If he helps us get out to a good start and can be there at the end, then he’s worth it. it was a fluke that when he was out this year Endy, Green, Milledge, and Gomez all got injured as well leaving the outfield with depth problems at times.
bring back Castillo. guy is a gamer. 2 year deal so as not to get burned by his knees.
AHern/Gotay as the utility infielder on the bench
Marlon comes back as the lefty bat
Endy comes back as the 4th OF
Find a RH PH with pop – who is under 33
Castro starts as C and if necessary we make a trade to bring someone else in if he proves he can’t stay healthy enough to last.
OK….
those are my thoughts…
sorry if they were long and at times rambling…
look fwd to your responses…
LET’S GO METS!
The bottom line is that we could have won and should have won with this team! Willie must get fired since that is the easiest way for the wilpons and omar to make major changes without spending a zillion dollars. A strong manager who is a disciplinarian will win with this team. Therefore rather than purging the roster, pay willie off, get a new manager and then spend some money on a starting pitcher, trade etc…and do what you can to tweak the bullpen.
If I own a company and if a divison of the company collapsed in such an awful manner. The person in charge of that divison would be terminated along with a few more in that group. Willie has to go.
I disagree with the premise that “we should have won with this team”. That’s the same arrogant attitude followed by players and management that got them into this debacle. Fact is we weren’t any better than our record – we had thin starting pitching and an unknown bullpen – all came home to roost.
Willie deserves a chance to make this right. Get him the arms and give him more leeway with coaching and let it roll.
Very well thought out; and I agree with most points – most immediately that Willie should stay as there is no better option out there – especially one who has some idea about NY.
The players are to blame- and it needs to stay that way.
too wordy.
I’m not reading that declaration of independence….send me the cliff notes…
I find it hard to believe that the (alleged) fact that people who played the game uniformly think Willie is the right man for the job has anything to do with knowledge of the game. I think it’s a community of insiders and mutual backscratchers. Willie’s firing would be the easiest way to shake things up in the clubhouse, and that’s what’s needed.
First off, Willie being gone would be great. No manager, after an epic collapse, has won a championship after with the same team. Something to keep in mind people. I believe Beltran has to go for the sake of getting back pitching and not killing our farm system. After that, we have to get rid of Delgado, I don’t care how much salary we have to eat. Glavine, enough said. I’m tired of seeing Castillo limp around the field the whole game. Now that the dead weight is gone, go after Santana or a similar player. We need that #1 pitcher. If Willie comes back, keep Hojo and Alomar, but put Alomar as bench coach. Let Willie pick the rest. Let LoDuca go, he’s all talk and never came through this year. The bullpen isn’t a great concern, it just has to be managed better. Use your farm system more. Burgos should be better this time around after some seasoning in AAA. Adkins the pitcher we got in the trade for Bell and try to rush Kunz through the farm system like Chad Cordero did.
so basically you’re saying lets get rid of the entire offense except reyes and wright. getting rid of delgado and beltran is silly. where you gonna make up all those HR’s and RBI’s? great- we’ll have good pitching that nobody can score for. rob peter to pay paul is your motto huh.
Hey I have an idea. Let’s trade Reyes, Delgado, Gomez, Fmart, Burgos, and Heilman for Santana. That way he cab pitch here for one year before filing for free agency after the 2008 season.
See you guys–be back when Willie is gone.
Fire Willie Hire Joe Geradi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is there a fire Willie site yet?????????????
I think its firewillierandolph.blogspot.com
Yes, here’s the URL:
http://www.convenientscapegoat.com
that link is broken.
The champagne will taste sweetest the day Willie is fired, whether it is this year, next or in 2 more…
How does this guy not get fired?
1B keep delgado for one year get texiera in 2009 (delgado’s contract is up at the end of ‘08 and the marlins are paying 3m this year)
2B resign castillo to two year, and teach gotay to play ss, 3b, and better at 2b to be the infield backup
SS and 3B – shouldn’t even be discussed
LF – alou stated he is willing to come back if his 7.5 mil option is picked up…pick it up!
CF – shouldn’t even be discussed
RF – Milledge: must give him a full year to see whats up with him
C – really don’t know, but i’d take a look at Pudge…he’s a winner.
SP – Perdo, Maine, Perez, dan haren (via trade), plus one more 2 or 3 type pitcher
RP – Wagner, Heilman, Sanchez (hope), the Show, convert Pelfrey, Feliciano (was way over used this year), Cordero (via trade…we can get him)
Bench – Green (i know, i know, but the guy can play 1B, and RF) he really showed me something down the stretch…give him a two year incentive laden deal; gotay (see above); anderson; castro (but play him more), plus one righty bat
Manager – How can he survive this debacle? Hopefully Matt continues to be wrong about his prediction that Willie will return, he’s been wrong for the past three weeks.
That was me playing GM, its not perfect, but an Oakland SP is completely reasonable as is Cordero.
What about the idea of Alou at 1B? Would keep his bat in the lineup because he would not put as much wear and tear on his body.
Reyes SS
Castillo 2B
Wright 3B
Betran CF
Alou 1B
Milledge RF
Castro C
Gomez LF
Green
Anderson
Gotay
Easley
Backup C
Pedro
Maine
Perez
Heilman (the guy wants to start, give him a shot, sucks as reliever)
Humber
Pelfrey
Wagner – 1 more shot
Sanchez
Sosa
Burgos
Feliciano
Mgr – Gary Carter
HoJo
Teufel
McDowell – How can Roger McDowell be the freaking Braves pitching coach?
Backman
Mazzilli
How’s the for a coaching staff? And all guys with managerial and coaching experience.
What do you think?
I forgot to add Schoenweis
starting pitching needs to be improved under your proposal…santana might be a stretch but a good pitcher is gettable
‘86 mets on the coaching staff is all well and good, but the manager might not want to bring those guys in.
remember delgado is due $18mil in ‘08, he’ll be at 1B
gomez and milledge can’t start together in the OF
how about delgado and a mid level prospect for manny?
I think the $15 Million loss is misstated, that’s maybe if the Mets had won the world series, not simply making the NLDS.
take into account ticket sales (minimum for nlds being $45 + $6 “service” charge), parking, beer, soda, food, merchandise, and a share of the tv revenue; for just two nlds games and 110,000 people at the stadium – $15 million sounds right.
His players do not play hard for him
reyes – milledge have no respect for the man
they are basically the cornerstone of the franchise the youth on the team
i dont know how you can bring Willie back
unless you are going to get rid of lots of personnel
If you heard Mike and Mad Dog’s interview of Ed Coleman today on the WFAN (you can still listen to it by going to the site and clicking on the link), you then heard Coleman (who, admittedly, is not a Beltran fan) and the boys speculate that Carlos could be a chip to use in the quest for some solid starting pitching. They noted that Beltran’s contract is not so prohibitive to the smaller market teams these days given the present market. They also said that the Mets should do whatever it takes now to make the trade with Minnesota for Johann Santana – even if it meant giving them Milledge, Pelfrey, Humber and possibly an Oliver Perez. I agree.
Both Tori Hunter and Aaron Rowand (Philly is not expected to re-sign him – believe it or not – but the White Sox who want him back are expected to make a big push for him) will be available on the free agent market. If we do decide to use Beltran to acquire some top-notch pitching, now may be the time to do it and maybe we sign Hunter or Rowand.
And yes I forgot Davey Johnson…would LOVE to see him back…again here are my list of candidates:
1. Bobby Valentine
2. Davey Johnson
3. Ray Knight
4. Frank Robinson
5. Ken Oberkfeld
Again I DO NOT want Girardi. He’d make a good manager, but I do not want another Yankee…under no circumstances!!! Been there, done that…not this time…no way.
I cannot believe the clueless people on this site who are saying there are no other candidates out there?!!!
BLASPHEMY!
I listed all of them above… and regardless, even if there were not anyone that jumped out at you:
ANYONE IS BETTER THAN BRAINLESS, CLUESS, DISPASSIONATE WILLIE!
These cannot be real Mets fans- the clueless people saying that there are no better candidates out there. LOST!
This disaster is more about Omar than it is about Willie. Who gave Willie this geriatric roster? How many games did they lose simply because having Julio Franco on the roster gave them a 24-man team for most of the season?
Who gave Willie the roster that had his team up 7 with 17 to go ???????
Email Jeff and Fred Wilpon, as I did, and campaign for Willie to be fired. Do it quick:
I believe their emails are simply:
jwilpon@mets.com (Jeff)
fwilpon@mets.com (Fred)
Plain and simple the bullpen blew it this year. In these days a team is only as strong as it’s bullpen because your lucky if your starter goes 6 innings.
Fact is this off season we let go of Chad Bradford, Heath Bell and Darren Oliver. Imagine our bullpen if you swap back those three for Schoeneweis, Sosa and Sele? That equation would have put us at the top of the NL east by at least 10 games.
While I think Randolph is nothing more then a mediocre manager with a highly talented team, he didn’t have much to work with as far as the bullpen, which killed many of our games.
Fact is the bullpen was demolished in the off-season and Randolph doesn’t have enough skill or the proper attitude to run a team, thats why his players quit on him.
As far as firing Randolph, the problem is there is not a whole lot out there to replace him with. Girardi is a joke, Frank Robinson is overrated, and the rest of the crop is the same or worse then Willie for the most part. All the managers that would fit the bill (Pinella, LaRussa, Leyland, Gardenhire) are all locked up in the contracts. The only guy I would think about replacing him with Ken Macha because he did alot with very little in Oakland. Problem is I fear Macha would be a bad hybrid of Bobby Valentine and Art Howe.
In fact the Managers the Mets have picked since firing Davey Johnson in 1990 have been pretty poor.
Torborg, Green, Valentine, and Howe. If you look closely you will see the only one to ever manage another MLB game was Torborg and that was a joke of a comeback 8 years later. In fact he was so bad that when Florida finally fired him, thhey climbed out of a sub .500 4th place record all the way to the World Series.
The problem is ownership, the Wilpon’s always want someone who will go with the flow, and good managers just don’t do that. Thats the prime example of why Davey Johnson was fired, but, he was successful.
The only non ass-kisser to ownership was Valentine, who was the most successful of the lot. Of course like Johnson, once he had a poor season, he was axed.
Who knows whats to come, but, I don’t see the Mets finding a managerial great anytime soon, and the best we can do is arm Randolph with a lot of players that can be successful and strike a balance. We didn’t do that this year due to tearing apart the pen and never finding a reliable 5th starter. Hopefully Omar will learn from his mistakes this season.
As far as the above listed candidates, as I said Robinson is overrated (he never had a .500 record during his tenure with any team), Knight??? Hey I am all for remembering 86 but he wasn’t a great manager for the Reds why would he be any good here? Oberkfeld would be the only guy I’d be willing to take a chance on, but it’s still just trying to catch lightning in a bottle. Not all AAA mangers turn into Davey Johnson.
Bobby Valentine is done in MLB, he pissed off too many people and you’d be hard pressed to find players to play for him. He’s quite happy in Japan and I wish him all the success in the world. He would have been a great manager in MLB if we could time warp back 30 years when players played to win not just to earn big bucks. Too many inflated egos these days for a Manager like Valentine.
I would love to Davey Johnson in a Mets uniform but frankly I don’t think he would come back, and I don’t think the Wilpon’s would hire him, read above about ass-kissing managers. Do I think Johnson could win big with this team, YES! I think we’d have back to back Championships, but the Wilpon egos wouldnt stand for it. Believe me if I owned the Mets, my first call would be to Minaya’s office directing him to offer Davey Johnson whatever he wanted to come back and manage Mets, my next direction to Minaya would be.. Your budget is _____, go build me a team and call me when your done.
We can dream cant we?
FIRE WILLIE!! mistermet is right, I have never been a big Willie fan. But I gave him a chance a he blew it big time. I always felt they needed one game from that last philly series, and when Willie did not use the Squeeze play in the bottom of the 8th, 2-2 game Reyes on 1st , Gomez on 3rd , one out and Castillo up. A perfect time to use the squeeze play with your 2 fastest runners on base. Not Willie he has Castillo swing away and he strikes out. Wagner comes in pitches a perfect 9th before Heilman came in to lose the game. If your not going to use the squeeze play there you never will. He should start managing more with his brain and less from the “gut”
anyone who watches a lot of baseball and is a strategy geek knows that willie is not cut out for national league baseball. it’s as simple as that. he’s indecisive, thus slow to pull the trigger with decisions. he doesn’t think ahead. he’s just a plain bad in-game manager.
yea, lets get a GM that gets us back to the cellar where you seem to prefer this team to be.
And what does that have to do with my question. Bitching that Newhan is pinch hitting when there is no other early game option is ludicrous. Should he have stalled until Endy Chavez got back from Venezuela?
Do you have half the info he has when he is making a decision? No.
People are quick to criticize yet never listen to his reasoning on why to do things. For the most part Willie actually has stats to back up his decision making. If you actually listen to the mans post game press conferences and his quotes there are actual stats that back up his in game decisions. Such as against the Nationals everyone wanted Schoenweiss to pitch to Schneider. Schneider was 1-10 against Sosa where as I doubt Show has even faced him. There was reasoning.
You want strategy look at zen’s post above.
dude, nobody that follows baseball closely considers willie a good in-game strategist. accept it. if he can’t motivate the players anymore and be good in the clubhouse, he’s useless as a manager. as far as the newhan pinch hitting situation, i never criticized that. and i’m not gonna speak for the other person you’re quibbling with. i just gave my 2-cents that Willie is a worthless strategist.
Yea lets pitch Heilman down in the game and then have nobody to close w/ Wagner hurt. Good call Willie.
Nobody warming up yet after the 1st 3 get on v. Glavine yesterday in the biggest game of the year. Good job Willie. Not bunting the runners over in game 7. nice job willie. Not starting Castro v the Marlins Friday against Kim. Brilliant job Willie.