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As YES recently pointed out, the Mets ERA in during April was 2.96, it was 3.69 in May, 4.20 in June, 4.50 in July, 4.93 in August and 5.11 in September.
…a lot of that is because John Maine and Oliver Perez clearly hit a wall mid-way through the second half…and Orlando Hernandez kept hurting himself…and glavine came apart in his search for 300 wins…but, it didn’t happen to other teams, who also had veterans and young pitchers…and so, if Rick Peterson is going to get tons of praise when a guy like Aaron Heilman drops his arm angle and succeeds in relief, then he has to take the blame when people like Heath Bell are chased out of town, or Brian Lawrence ends up floundering in the starting rotation, and so on…i have no idea if peterson matters either way, but if the team is going to talk him up during success, he has to be out in front during failure…
…people seem to think i love peterson…that is not the case…actually, i am a big fan of peterson the character…you know, the jacket, the clipboards, the mullet, the metaphors, etc…but, as far as his role as pitching coach, i’ve come to learn that these guys are immensely overrated, same as hitting coach…they are useful and effective at some things, and useless and irrelevant at other things, and it all comes out in the wash…in the end, if it is decided that he is hurting the team, either because he is too particular or demanding, then he goes…if willie is given control of the coaching staff, as he should be, and he doesn’t like rick, then rick goes…if it doesn’t matter, or willie likes him, then he stays, but he needs to take a hit either way, because his rentire staff totally fell apart with every game that passed…
Peterson is the most over-rated guy in that dugout. And thats a dugout with Glavine, Delgado and Wagner.
Place the blame where it belongs.
The pitching collapsed…
Peterson is the Head Pitching Coach…
Peterson should be FIRED!
Why is this so hard to understand.
Clearly, this guy is not very good. You cannot give him credit for Pedro, and Glavine, etc…these guys are established…and yes I do him credit for Maine and Perez….
BUT, what about
Feliciano, Heilman, Sosa, Burgos, Mota, Wagner, Pelfrey, Schoeneweis, Sele, etc…..
If I were to judge him (and I do) on his body of work as a Met (for 3 years)….this guy stinks….
If the Mets keep him, its just a another example of extremely bad management. This is not a professional team….its a boy’s club.
no would you fire the jacket poll?
Why bother? These polls are not even legit…
Getting rid of Peterson is not going to change anything. THE move to make is to send Wille Yankee packing…but the Mets won’t do it, so we can expect more of the awful moves in ballgames from our 2008 manager…..and the same uninspired play on the field, because Willie said you can’t get too excited or too down.
I have been calling for Willie’s firing since Day One and until they do it, this team will continue to frustrate us. These guys don’t respect him….little by little it comes out. Remember Floyd last season after he left how he made Randolph seem incompetent? Wagner, LoDuca, etc….is it ALL coincidence?
How are they not legit? Because they don’t support your argument?
No….b/c you can vote 17 million times each, if you want. So, 1 person can skew the ballot….
No, you can’t. I was concerned with that too, so I tested it. You get the following response:
“Thank you, we have already counted your vote.”
Yea, that’s a pretty piss poor reasoning right there. If you want to be taken seriously, at least start taking your crazy pills first
I, for one, do not want to see willie fired.
I completely understand all of the criticism Willie has been getting, even though I think it is a little bit overblown. On the other hand, Rick Peterson has gotten little to no criticism, especially on this blog. Isn’t it the pitching staff that failed this team down the stretch. These guys were scoring 7 runs per game during the last few weeks but were giving up 8. This clearly falls on the pitching staff, especially the bullpen, and Peterson has to be responsible for this.
I agree with this completely.
This is something that is so obvious its is painful to notice that people do not see this. Which is why it has gone unabated for the past 3 years.
When are the Mets going to wise up and fire this guy?
Pitching real bad + Pitching Coach responsible =Fire Pitching Coach!
I love how Peterson is finally starting to get some of the blame. Most Met fans I know put the blame on this collapse squarely on the pitching. When you have a starting staff that can’t go longer that 6 innings that’s a major problem.
He should go not because I believe his position is overrated but I doubt his ability to advise Willie and the pitching staff on in-game related decisions. ie, pitching changes, pitching strategy, etc… Willie should stay but should have the best available coaches.
Lets not forget his ability to “fix victor zambrano in ten minutes”
With both calls for firing Willie and Peterson – that’s fine – we know what you don want. But I think you also need to tell us who exactly you want to their places? Fine to say fire this guy and that guy – but you have to fill the position. Who would replace Jacket?
Duncan. He did an absolutely masterful job with the Cards last year. With his boss going out the door, he might be available.
Why not get both Duncan AND LaRussa?
I will pretend you didn’t say that.
Jocketty might leave too. Why not Duncan, LaRussa AND Jocketty?
:wink:
Because they’re cheats.
I just realized something…Matt, why are you watching YES???
His wife is a Yankee fan.
I’ve been a fan of Rick Peterson’s work before he came to the Mets. I marveled at his work with the Big 3 in Oakland – Mulder, Zito, and Hudson. Those pitchers, who were enormously successful from early in their careers under his coaching, have largely struggled since not being coached by him.
Peterson is an asset to the Mets. Look at his work with Maine and Ollie as a testament to his ability to help pitchers with their mechanics.
The Mets should keep Peterson, and seek to bring another strong arm into the starting pool, and get a number of talented bullpen contributors to round out the mix for 2008.
Pitching wins baseball games over the long haul.
Yeah, an ASSet to the Mets…
It was Peterson’s great skill as a coach that stopped the Mets pitching staff from completely imploding. His incredible knowledge of the game and pitching technique that kept that bullpen under total control. His absolute charisma that kept and had all the pitching staff following his every word.
I will say it again…Maine and Perez, yes.
Heilman, Feliciano, Sosa, Burgos, Sele, Wagner, Pelfrey, Smith, Mota, Schoeneweis, no.
Give credit when credit is due, and give demerits when it is due. 2 successes, and at least 10 failures, and at the most critical times.
Peterson should go, previous success notwithstanding.
Not sure where I fall on this.
1) What can Peterson do with old vets like Glavine, Duque or Petey?
2) What could Peterson do with absolute crap like Mota or Schoenweiss?
3) Not sure it is Peterson’s fault that guys hit a wall (Maine, Ollie, Joe Smith, Sosa due to overuse or misuse)
That said….
Pelfaily stunk up the joint for all but 2 of his starts
Feliciano regressed
Heilman continued to be HR happy
He drove Heath Bell away
Ollie and Maine didn’t have mental focus this year during games
Should Peterson stay? In my mind, I’d leave it to Ollie, Maine and Humber because they’re the ones who really need the pitching coach. If they are comfy and happy with him, keep him. If they have issues with him, drop him.
Very well-reasoned points, but I don’t agree with a few of them. Feliciano didn’t regress as much as he was over-used, and Heilman gave up one HR after July 1. He had some problems early, but he pitched very well in the 2nd half.
Totally agree, mikewelch7.
Peterson should shoulder some of the responsibility for the team’s demise this season. But his positives far outweigh the negatives.
And what do we always hear whenever a pitcher is on the market? “He’d be a good project for Peterson.” PETERSON DOESN’T NEED MORE PROJECTS. Let him take up stamp collecting if he needs a hobby. He helped Bradford in Oakland, but after one year of Bradford here Omar let him get away and brought in more “projects” for Jacket.
Ollie and John were throw-ins and look how far they got us — last season and this one. Certainly they have talent, but no way the would have been so good without Jacket’s help.
My understanding is that the only coach Willie was permitted to hire was Rick Down, who was fired mid-season. He inherited Peterson, Hojo, Manuel and Alomar. Henderson was foisted upon him as well.
Every Manager should be able to name his own staff. For this reason alone, I would keep Willie on and allow him to make whatever staff changes he wants. A man needs to feel comfortable with his staff. He must feel there is loyalty to him and that he can openly approach them without fear they will run back to management. This clearly was not the case. For that reason, he should be given the opportunity to manage HIS team HIS way with HIS staff.
if thats the case, why didnt willie stand up and do something about it? probably the same reason he didnt stand up all season and get HIS team motivated. willie is in the drivers seat here. he is the manager of 1 of the 2 major league teams in the biggest major league market. he has a bully pulpit of the press attention hardly any other manager gets, every night. if he is not fighting for his opportunity to manage HIS way, with HIS staff, he is not fighting for HIS team.
if he is fighting for HIS, he is doing as good a job at it as he is managing.
Matt, why not trade Peterson to Baltimore for Leo Mazzone. I always liked him because he actually knows what he is doing. Peterson did great work w/ Heilman Ollie and Maine but Mazzone was one of the keys during the Braves 14 consecutive divsion champs. He knew when to speak to the pitchers and helped them physically. I would be thrilled if they brought him in.
SAVE THE JACKET!
Burn the Jacket!
The pitching staff performed more or less as expected, save for a few disappointments (Schoenweiss comes to mind). Omar left the Mets high and dry because he didnt add a top of the rotation starter to this mix of third starters and worse. And the Pen suffered as a result. Besides not affording the Bullpen any relief, the starters never gave the pen a nite to recover mentally from its exertions. The Mets dont have a starter capable of going eight innings, let alone nine. Glavine, Pedro and El Duque are too old. Perez, even at his best, throws too many pitches. And Maine is still a bit raw. Perez and Maine are keepers but they are middle to bottom of the rotation guys on a really good team.
The Mets need two new starters to replace Glavine and El Duque. The Mets can either announce “we are rebuilding” and use Humber and Pelfrey to fill these spots, or they can make deals to get proper one and two starters.
El Duque needs to be a spot starter and long reliever. Great as he is, he cannot be relied upon as part of a major league pitching rotation.
This was a too-cocky Omar’s fault. He should be more humble.
I want to make sure I have this straight; Rick Peterson deserves criticism for not making a Cy Young candidate out of garbage pitcher, but Willie fails miserably at his job, but deserves more autonomy and players who think like he does. Where’s the Kool Aid, Matt, I’m clearly in need os some.
Peterson definitely has to shoulder some blame for the lack of continued development by Maine and Perez, but not for failing to make a servicable starter out of Brian Lawrence. No chef in the world can make chicken salad out of chicken $hit. In fact, Peterson should apply for combat pay for being saddled with starters like Jose Lima, Jeremy Gonzalez, Chan Ho Park and Brian Lawrence.
Exactly! The fact is that the Mets gave away many games early this year. Chan Ho Park, Brian Lawrence, Vargas, etc………if you are that thin, the bullpen will inevitably wear out. The Mets were fortunate to get the years out of Maine and Perez they did. Glavine performed better than expected for a soft tossing lefty, but he ran out of gas too. No team without a 200 inning eater on their staff, will ever go far.
i dont blame willie or peterson primarily!! omar dropped the ball immediately after last year’s exit in the playoffs.First, he had a chance to acquire a Dan Haren for some of our “elite pitching prospects”(yeah right) but he held onto all of the prospects! Now their stocks have dropped and i doubt he can get much out of any of these mediocre prospects we have. Second, he destroyed the bullpen and restocked it with a bunch of bums. i never had any faith all year in this bullpen whereas most ppl here said it was almost as good as the 06 bullpen. gimme a break. Omar said that bullpens arent consistently good year after year but look at the angels dominant bullpen,(shields,spier,k-rod) Third,he seen firsthand in 06 that the old geezers were breaking down all of the time and then he goes and resigns 100 year old el puke and glavine. Fourth, not strengthening the bullpen at the trade deadline(Cordero for Humber and heilman). i could list a dozen other fatal mistakes that Omar has made but this is enough examples. i blame Omar, you know what i’m saying????
That’s right Matt, avert any criticism of Willie by attacking Peterson. Look at the staff. You’re blaming him. What a joke.
the jacket is the best technical pitching guru around. his problem is he is in the wrong job. he needs to be the teams overall pitching coordinater. let him scout, train, and mold every pitcher from top to bottom in the organization. leave the day to day bs pitching coach stuff for someone with more understandings of what the day to day needs of the players are.
niether peterson or willie’s GUT calls are any good. they just dont get it.
How many times when B. Lawrence was the announced pitcher did I ask myself, outloud, why are we giving up a game? Same last year with Lima Time and J. Gonzalez. The starts this year for Lawrence should have been used if we needed pitchers for Humber to get him ready for Sep., the same for Pelfrey. Even just one of those Lawrence loses could have gotten us into the post season. We have to find a way or someone, Jacket, that can prepare our young starters to go 200 innings at least so that in the future we don’t waste a bullpen. What does it matter if Duaner comes back and we get bullpen help if the starters don’t go at least 7 to 8 innings? All we really need on the staff is an innings eater that will show the youngens how to pace them selves. What kind of program does Jacket have the young pitchers on, minor or majors, that will help with their longevity training? Mets have always won with pitching, defense and clutch hitting. Who do the Mets have grooming to take over from Wagner? Another pitcher from another team? We need to groom our own studs for the pen and starting rotation. Nuff said.