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At his blog for ESPN.com, Peter Gammons provides a listing of what the Mets should do this off-season.
Gammons believes the Mets should learn from their failure to maintain their seven-game lead down the stretch by looking at the their division foe to the south, the Phillies, writing…
“The Phillies are a player-driven team, the best kind of team, and tinkered only with the pitching staff. No one had to psycho-analyze the Phillies, because Jimmy Rollins and Aaron Rowand and Chase Utley come crashing to the park every day and grill it up. Do the Mets need more of that? Yes.”
Gammons even goes so far to suggest the Mets try and sign Rowand, who is a free-agent at the end of season, to play right field.
According to Gammons, Omar Minaya and Willie Randolph need to develop a “stronger partnership,” such as Indians GM Mark Shapiro and Manager Eric Wedge.
Gammons also believes the Mets should hire Rangers hitting coach Rudy Jaramillo, trade Lastings Milledge for a Joe Blanton-type pitcher, let Mike Pelfrey and Philip Humber develop, trade for C Ramon Hernandez, and, of course, stop worrying about the Yankees.
…i agree, for the most part, with gammons on all fronts, especially when it comes to the idea of acquiring a few ‘Eric Brynes-types,’ or as gammons puts it, “wall-crashing gamers”…
Over at his blog for WFAN, Eddie Coleman provides a solution for the Mets this off-season, as well, writing…
“Get Johan Santana.”
Coleman believes the Mets should do so by trading Pelfrey, Humber, Aaron Heilman and Milledge to the Twins for Santana.
…mighty high price to pay eddie c., mighty high…and to the twins, that might just be a starting point…my firm belief this off-season is that omar will attempt to deal one of each tandem of pelfrey/humber and milledge/Carlos Gomez for a starting pitcher…i wouldn’t be shocked to see all four get dealt, but that, of course, is pure speculation on my part…
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I like the idea of getting Rowand, Filthies are nuts if they let him go. Also agree with Eddie C, get Santana. The names mentioned are not out of line. Replace Milledge’s attitude with Rowand, got me interested…..Heck I want it all, it isn’t my money…
The organization’s “reasons” for the team’s late-season collapse — the inexperience of young players and the injury to El Duque — indicates that management doesn’t believe wholesale changes are necessary. But these reasons are really lame excuses. The real reason for the collapse is that the team wasn’t any good to begin with.
As Bill Parcells says, “You are what your record says you are.” And the Mets’ record says they were thoroughly mediocre. After all, they were under .500 for the last two-thirds of the season, under .500 at home for the season and not exactly dominant in their own division. That’s hardly the record of playoff-caliber team.
So Minaya better make the types of deals that these experts are suggesting during the off-season, or we’ll be in for more of the same next year.
Everyone speaks of trading Maine, but Maine could become the Maine man ! he reminds Mets fans as a young Nolan and Maybe Seaver guys who showed potential of being good 20 game winners for years to come but where traded to get a win now pitcher, and as much as Santana seems like a great ft I think we make a A-rod type of deal, less the attitude or the wanna be the politcal player, trying to be nice when all along your in it for the money and don’t know how to lead. I think with Santana you have a guy who cares about how he does but cares about his team as much and a “What can I do mentality” for the team. With Santana you can make him and Maine the future 1-2 for many years to come with Perez a solid 3rd starter who can get you a 15-20 wins with the right run support.
The nucleus could be names like, Maine,Santana,Perez on the staff and surround them with guy’s who throw hard and make pitches. and on the Offensive side names,such as Reyes,Wright,Beltran,Gotay,maybe even Gomez but I am sure we can spend a little money and smarts to make a few good deals. As much as Minaya has made some good moves he still hasn’t made THE move and Santana could be the begining of THE move.
And followed by a few other off season pick ups such as Dontrell,Rowand and I am certain there are other names. We have the money and some trading pieces we should have not only a contendar but a WINNER !
Mets Fan with pain in his heart and no tears left to cry. As my mother would say to me “did you cry because the Mets lost?”, and the answer is your damn right.
I’m not convinced the Twins will part with Johann in exchange for a grabbag of mediocre prospects. I think one name will be at the forefront of negotiations:
John Maine.
They’ll want Milledge and maybe Mulvey to round out the package. That’s a deal I’m just not ready to make, since Maine may be coming into his own right now. I’d rather go with an innings eater (Silva? Just don’t know enough about him, or one of the hotshot Japansese pitchers).
Nothing wrong with
Pedro
Maine
Perez
Silva/Pelrey
Innings Eater
I am on board with the idea of getting Rowand…I like the way he plays the game.
I love Eddie C but he’d make a lousy GM. Why trade all that when you can have Santana in ‘09 for just money? If he can’t be had at a reasonable cost, then just be patient and wait till he’s a free agent.
I agree, Santana isn’t the answer right now. The Mets can’t afford to give up Maine to get him for one year with the possiblity of not signing him. I would be more willing to pick up an innings eater like Silva, or maybe Bartolo Colón. If you are trading away Maine and the farm, go for someone like Bedard who is controllable past this year.
Lets repeat this again: When you make a trade of this magnitude you insist on a window of a couple of days where you can negogiate with the player. If you can sign him, you go forward with the trade. If you can’t the trade doesn’t go through.
So can we finally drop all of this “we’d only have Santana for one year”. We wouldn’t proceed unless he agreed with an extension.
Now, a more relevant question is “why would Santana sign an extension now?”
REASON ONE: He’s agent is Peter Greenberg (Not Scott Boras).
REASON TWO: The Mets would realize that if they attempted to make this trade, the word would leak out. IT would be a PR disaster to get to the altar with Santana and not be able to sign him. They have to be fully prepared to pay full price (if not overpay) for Santana’s services. This will be one outrageous contract whether its this year or next.
REASON THREE: Santana and Greenberg both recognize the reality that as a pitcher they’re one elbow injury away from getting nada in ‘08.
REASON FOUR: Santana has apparently (I’ll admit, I’m not certain) suggested a desire to play in NY. Going to the National League in a pitcher’s stadium in the Big Apple lays the groundwork for making Santana a baseball messiah.
So, forget about all this one-year rental stuff. Its irrelevant. The Mets are desperate for a number one starter and (arguably) the best one of his generation may be available at age 28.
My only question is will the Mets be willing to let go of Reyes for that opportunity (because they don’t have the desirable prospects of say, the Dodgers or Diamondbacks)? If they get an extension signed, the answer to this is GET IT DONE NOW!!!!!
where did all the “he wants to play in NY” talk originate, anyway? I know after they traded Castillo, he basically said he’s willing to leave; but was there an actual quote anywhere about NY or the NL, or was it just comentators conjecturing?
In the interest of full disclosure (and I don’t know, to be perfectly honest, whether this helps or hurts my case):
Apparently Peter Greenberg is ALSO Jose Reyes’ agent. Whether that has any impact on whether Santana ends up a Met or not, I’m not sure.
But I will throw this bit of conjecture out there:
If Reyes’ problem this year is that he was partying like a rock star, Greenberg would know it. He also would know that a wild young man with a predisposition to not take care of himself might not be able to handle New York all that well. If Reyes is to maximize his baseball value (and make the really big bucks after his currnet modest contract is done) it might be in his (and his agent’s) best interests to get him the heck out of New York.
I honestly don’t know. I admit it.
I don’t think your possibility of resigning is such a given. It could happen, and it could not. I wonder what happens with the Twins GM job in flux.
come on….Colon is garbage. pure garbage. but I would not be surprised to see omar go after him. maybe omar will get colon and livan, then we can really suck. but it is something that he would try to do. you cannot eat innings when you are giving up six runs, it is counterproductive. there has to be a balance. and i agree with the poster who says our prospects are just not that good. for santana, omar would have to give reyes. or beltran. but that would be too much.
Santana isnt the answer? Why is there a better pitcher in baseball? Come on get real. He would be the answer for any team. Please nobody get over excited about Maine’s last outing of the year. That will not be the norm. He is good but not that good so if the Twins insist on him you do it.
Good point , it makes no sense to trade fair value for a player AND also give him free agent money.
Guys, the real concerns heading into the offseason should be mostly within the pitching staff and bullpen. I really have no qualms with the offense we have already, hitting is an execution issue more than anything else. We have seen first hand what this offense is capable of when it is clicking on all cylinders. Rudy Jaramillo is about the best as they come though, if we are able to pry him away from Texas that would surely be a welcomed addition. I realize the concept that noone is getting any younger, but I am confident that consistency will return next season. You have to take into consideration the fact of how this offense could have been so sporadic all year long by feeling the need to score 10 runs a game to offset the deficiencies in the pitching department. Ask yourselves, where we would be right now with a few more well pitched ballgames? That, my friends, is the most important issue that needs to be addressed.
Pitching wins ballgames, folks. That’s the bottomline.
It’s also quite comical how fans’ posts I have seen lately on Metsblog are considering rather insignificant things so critically. I’ll tell ya this, to think that finding a new catcher to replace Paul LoDuca is going to be the difference-maker in bringing this ballclub to the next level, it’s simply laughable. We need to get on the same page here and solve the real problems.
Well said!
bring back LODUCA!
I agree with just about all of Gammon’s comments.
I’m afraid the cost of Santana is going to be too high. I like the idea of, finally, trading Heilman though.
You like the idea of trading our best relief pitcher? He gave up some HR’s early, but only one after July 1st. Granted, it is a pretty low bar, but nobody pitched more effectively out of the Met pen after the all star break than Heilman.
I do like the idea of Rowand. I doubt he’ll get “bored” in any game he ever plays, talented team or not.
…But he just had a career year with the bat. So he’s in for a BIG payday.
Not to mention he is more valuable to a team needing a CF and not a corner OF. For a Corner OF he has good numbers this year, for CF they are outstanding. I think the Mets will get outbid in both years and dollars with Rowand.
Exactly, the currents mets players are too soft compared to the phillies lineup and this will continue to be a problem if not addressed with bringing in some hard nosed players who won’t get bored……
I like Rowand too, but I’d be wary. I appreciate that he plays hard every day, but I’m pretty suspicious of his offense. Let someone else overpay him, we have enough production in the outfield (assuming Alou and Milledge).
Rowand is not as good as he was this year and even though I like him and what he brings EVERY day, he is still not worth the money that he’ll get after this past year. Ya think he’ll get more than Andruw after this past year?
Reyes for Santana then break the bank and sign A-Rod. Am I a good GM or what ? DO IT!
A-Rod will never win a ring. He will retire ringless. No matter how much he produces, he’s too much of a selfish player that demands star attention. The focus of any team he will be on will always be him. His salary alone will always be a drain on the coffers of any team not named the Yankees. So much so that it hurts their ability to get other key players. If I am wrong I will come back here and admit it all over the place. I will scream it. But I don’t think I will ever need to do it.
Beside, he’s not coming here. If he leaves the Yankees it’s to get out of NY and away from its fans. So why would he come to the Mets?
Give it up, Mets fans. Give it up.
Totally agree. ARod is cursed - he will never win a championship. Fact is every team he’s played for got better after he left. Best thing for Yankee haters is that ARod resigns with the skanks for some crazy amount of money. I’m not even sure the skanks will not feel the drain from this.
I never want to see him in a Mets uniform.
This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read. People used to say the same thing about Peyton Manning, and he just won the Super Bowl.
If they Yankees had any pitching they would win the World Series this season… and if Torre pulled a LaRussa and trusted his young arms more they would win the World Series.
Also the “every team he played for got better” comment is ridiculous. Think Seattle wouldn’t like him? Texas really got a lot better, huh?
If it wasn’t for ARod the Yankees don’t even make the playoffs. They would have been so far out there would have been no way for them to make up the ground. He carried that team this season.
Honestly, this really ticks me off. Talking about curses and other BS that have nothing to do with anything.
You may be right about not many teams being able to afford him and sign other players, but teams like the Yanks, Mets, Cubs, Angels, Red Sox, and Dodgers certainly would be able to.
I may have to root for the Yankees just so people realize that curses, whammies, jinxes, and all of sorts of rubbish are meaningless BS that is put forth by the media for the gullible rabble to eat up.
The Red Sox, White Sox, Roy Williams, and Peyton Manning have all won titles recently. Tell me some more about curses.
And while you may have a point about ARod being selfish (his boyhood idol was Dan Marino, whose refusal to establish a running game probably cost him a chance to win some rings), this isn’t football or basketball (Patrick Ewing anyone?) where the selfishness of one player and his insisting on everything revolving around him can have a negative impact. He gets 4 atbats a game and a few chances in the field per game.
i agree. more people need to read FJM.
LOL, not again.
It seems we’ve been down that FJM road before. At least I think squad was there. I’ll repeat — that article trying to pull apart Lupica’s column did a tremendously poor job of it. It seemed to merely serve as an opportunity to throw some love A-Rod’s way and to go on a blind whine-fest over Lupica.
I think every single thing Lupica said in his article was true then as it is now. He was 100% correct.
The funny thing is when I asked someone to point out one thing in Lupica’s article that wasn’t correct, no one even attempted to do it.
who is lupica? that site is great for many reasons, i dont remember any lupicas tho. for real i am not being sarcastic.
You don’t know who Lupica is? He is one of the biggest sports columnists in the city.
FJM attempted to rip apart one of his pieces on A-Rod and did a horrifically poor job of it. They fell flat on their faces. It was filled with straw man arguments, and that was the only way they had something to whine about.
I won’t read a site with such poor writing standards. I mean, if you want to go on a rant, fine. Label your piece “Opinion” or “Rant.” But don’t fill it with straw man arguments at every turn and pretend it’s a logical refutation of someone else’s work. It wasn’t.
i read the star ledger until i moved to dc. now i dont read any papers much - for sports anyway.
i think theres a lot more to FJM than the lupica post but whatevs, i find it funny as hell and think their analysis is superior to most any ‘professional’ out there but thats me.
What I can’t understand is this adulation FJM has for A-Rod. I mean it’s got to be pure adulation for them to go so over-the-top crazy and practically concoct an argument so they can proclaim in effect, “we love you A-Rod.” Either that or they have this blind hatred for Lupica or all established journalists. It was almost surreal.
i think you need to read more than that one lupica article. theyre actually huge red sox fans who take up a-rods cause in the name of dispelling myths about player value and production but either way, they are heavy into the sabr stats so if thats not your thing you probably wont get into it. anyway. at least everybody can appreciate them ripping into tim mccarver tho.
http://www.firejoemorgan.com/search?q=mccarver
I can appreciate them ripping into McCarver or Joe Morgan any day. Joe Morgan and Jon Miller are just terrible with their Sunday night broadcasts. It seems every single broadcast you hear a big fat factual error — like the one saying Castillo was new to Wrigley, lol.
What I don’t appreciate about FJM is taking a sabermetric approach in their refutation of an article that wasn’t really about sabermetrics but was essentially a look at A-Rod’s worth to the Yankees from an almost purely pragmatic/business sense.
I like stats. But you have to use them correctly and in context with a non-stats world in order for them to have the most value. And you can’t misuse them the way FJM did in order to climb up on a soapbox.
Boy, I remember it wasn’t very long ago when Mets fans were saying how the team dodged a bullet by NOT signing A-Rod for $252M/10 and holding on to Reyes. Now some fans want to trade Reyes away (for a player that can only play once every 5 games) and sign A-Rod and his bloated contract.
Life is a funny thing.
you’re totally right. short memories (and short-sightedness) abound when there’s no baseball games to argue about.
the mets have produced 2 good position players in the last 20 years: reyes and wright. you want to trade one of them.
reyes is virtually impossible to replace: 1. gold-glove level ss 2. top 3 lead-off hitter. how many lead-off hitters in mets history have scored 100 runs? 1: lance johnson. reyes has 119+ in back-to-back years.
it would be easier to replace wright than reyes. of course, i wouldn’t trade wright either as his #’s + leadership are great.
it’s a sad day when mets fans would trade the guy who will likely have the best career for a position player in their history
>>it’s a sad day when mets fans would trade the guy who will likely have the best career for a position player in their history<<
Are you nuts? Right now, Wright projects to be the best position player in their history. Hell, if it wasn’t for the historic collapse by the Mets, Wright could have been the frontrunner for the MVP. If Reyes doesn’t improve greatly next year (and by greatly I am talking 2006-type numbers) considering it will be his 5th year in the majors and pretty much beginning to enter his prime years, then he may very well be “overrated” and we as Mets fans may have to deal with it or the team will have to seriously entertain trading him.
“overrated” based on what? a bunch of media-types and fans who instantly called for reyes to be the best player in baseball.
wright had a better offensive season this year. reyes is a better, more valuable player. in a “bad” year he was top 6 in runs, hits, sb’s (most in 20 years) and played gold-glove ss. wright plays mediocre third (only 4 of 30 players had more errors)
if you project their #’s over the past 3 years for 13 more years: reyes is a 1st ballot hall-of-famer. 3000 hits, 1000+sb’s, about 2,000 runs, a few gold-gloves at a defensive postion. that’s without improving.
i’m not slamming wright, he’s one of my favorite players. how many years will he steal 30 bases? take that away and there are lots of players who match his output this year and definately 05 and 06.
as with most mets fans, you are exhibiting the memory of a gold-fish.
in june when reyes was hitting .330 and had 3 hits in the all-star game everone was talking about the great reyes. second half of 2006, playoffs, and april 07 wright was getting slammed.
i would never trade wright, but you can replace him this year. a-rod is better offensively and defensively (or at least equal).
who could replace reyes as a lead-off hitter and gold-glove level ss?
zen — leadership and desire are two of the hardest things to acquire. Just look at Delgado.
I would say it would be hard to replace Wright. He’s more of a leader now than A-Rod has ever been for any of his teams.
i’m not looking to replace wright. i was making a point. i wouldn’t trade wright or reyes. that being said: the mets are the only team in baseball that would rather have wright than a-rod over the next 8 years w/o taking $ into consideration.
You can replace Reyes the ss, it would be very difficult to replace him as a leadoff hitter.
And for Wright, if they traded him, I would stop being a Mets fan…he is the face of this franchise now.
I’m not so sure about that, zen. If you had said “over the next 4 years” then maybe, yes. But A-Rod is 32 now and will be 40 in 8 years. He’s probably at his peak or just a little past it now. I think it’s 50-50 that Wright over the next 4 years will be as productive as A-Rod. And if you’re talking the 4 years after that — 2012 to 2015 — I think it’s a better bet that Wright is more productive, assuming that A-Rod would even play that long.
So I think the more astute GM takes Wright if it’s over the next 8 years.
“I think it’s 50-50 that Wright over the next 4 years will be as productive as A-Rod.”
give me a break. i love wright, but there is no way he is going to out-produce a-rod over the next 4 years. it’s more like 0-100 that a-rod out-produces wright barring injury.
you make a solid point about 8 years and a-rod’s age. i’ll give you wright in 2014 or 2015. not the next 6 years though.
an astute gm would know that he won’t be around in 8 years. he’d take a-rod over wright the next 6 years. every gm would sign a-rod over wright if they were both free agents besides the mets.
I agree with Zen here. Barring the loads of money, every team in the league would take A-Rod, even the Mets if you remember. Wright would even change positions.
zen, I would even be willing to bet on it. That over the next 4 years, Wright puts up as much as A-Rod in terms of RBIs and HRs. Remember, I said 50-50. But I’ll take the leap and go with Wright.
The only thing is if he leaves the Yankees and somehow ends up in a hitters park … then I rescind my bet. But if he stays with the Yankees, the bet is on. OK?
Now I just hope Matt Cerrone is still running this site in 4 years. If so, I will be back at the end of the season in 2011 looking for you! :smile:
stache, not for 8 years. I bet at least 1/3 of the GMs, the more astute ones, would go for Wright.
even though i expect to win that bet…i can’t possibly go the next 4 seasons hoping that a-rod does better than wright :)
Most GM’s will not be around in 8 years. I think it is foolish to start thinking about where we will be in 8 years. Another bad season and half of the in-game chatters will commit suicide.
Well, it was zen who brought up the 8 years. I do agree with you that most GMs don’t think 8 years ahead but many do — especially when faced with the dilemma of signing someone to an 8-year contract.
What if a GM were forced to pick this winter between an 8-year guaranteed contract for A-Rod with an ironclad no-trade at $20 million a year … or an 8-year deal for David Wright with precisely the same terms?
I think most would pick A-Rod. But I think a few would pick Wright. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone like Beane opted for Wright.
The main advantage of Wright over A-Rod is his leadership, professionalism, no distractions, and attitude. Whether his production will be better I don’t know (I doubt it) But taking into account the “baggage” that comes with A-Rod and the “intangibles” that come with Wright, I’d go with Wright.
AND DON’T TRADE REYES!!
Stop with the nonsense and go get Santana , if thats the deal I would laugh and make it on the spot. Prospects are just that…Go get Santana.
If not I do have the faith that Omar will do the right thing. I know he had a bad winter, especially with the bullpen and bench, but he pulls things out of his hat. Let’s get another one done
I think Santana is a long shot for this year - even so I’m not sure that’s best way to trade away our chips. He can still be had for just money next year as I would be shocked if he declined to go to free agency.
It might be more realistic to look at trading for another top of the line starter like Oswalt or Haren/Harden. or Willis.
He’ll be long gone before then
who’s his agent?
Enough with Willis, He’s nowhere near a “top of the line” starter!! I would love to get Haren or Oswalt. Harden is a different story and you could probably get him for alot less.
a team will vastly over-pay for rowand this year. hope it’s not the mets. if he was going to play center-field, fine. his offensive #’s are tied to that ballpark. at 30 years old, he’s has 2 good years. he’ll end up with a 5 year deal making beltran’s contract look practically free.
i’d go after a similar player in terms of grit, kevin millar, who can play against lefties at first-base along with a little left field to rest alou.
let milledge play everyday in right-field. his team-mates will be forced to focus as they’ll be thrown at regularly :) fukudome is an unnecessary risk. this team doesn’t need to try another experiment.
top-of-the-rotation starter (near true #1) is needed. two solid bullpen guys need to be added. people keep mentioning santana who i don’t believe the mets have the chips to get. why not joe nathan? he will be a free agent next year so the twins may trade him for a lot smaller package than santana:
9: wagner 8: nathan 7: heilman, feliciano 6: sosa, steriodweis
if dirty sanchez is back, that would make the pen great.
True only 10 of Rowands 27 HRs were on the road. Although he hit .299 OTR (and .319 at home).
Don’t forget about Padilla as well.
What exactly did Padilla do that so many are anxiously awaiting his return. He could be ok or he could be crap. He is a finesee type pitcher i nthe bullpen if I remember correctly.
Padilla had great numbers in AAA, and in limited opportunities with Mets. If he could regain that, he could definitely improve the BP.
The Mets need to to go into this offseason thinking that Sanchez, and even Burgos and Padilla, will not be available. As this year is an example, you can never have too much pitching.
agreed. If they return and are good: bonus.
I agree with most of what you say, but you lost me at Kevin Millar. The last thing htis team needs is another poor-fielding, aging, base-clogging hitter on the downside of his career.
I agree with your agreement and your dissent.
fair enough. it was the only gritty, low-salary player who came to mind.
you’re right.
MILLAR?!?!!? come on!!
heres little conspiracy theory ive been thinking about….does anyone maybe think the “organizational pitcher of the yr” went to mulvey to maybe boost his trade value. so maybe he will be viewed in the same light as pelf and humber in essence giving us now 3 chips to deal? or am i just nuts, i mean anderson hernandez won it also and he isnt the apple of any other teams’ eye so maybe i just drank that coffee a little too fast this morning.
Easy on that Sanka…
Rowand had a career year and its obvious that its the small park… he hit 17 out of 28 homers there… i am sure if he came to NY he would not produce and we wouldnt care if he was a “solid” player…
besides ive seen him strike out countless times in key situations… no thanks buddy..
You’re right let’s just stick with Shawn Green or some unproven player in the outfield.
LM has proven enough…he can obviously hit, and plays the corner OF fine.
If LM has the same production as AR, why would you pay umpty-million bucks when you have LM for (relative) peanuts?
Because AR plays his a** off while LM doesn’t?
why does LM not play his ass off? Because he didn’t run out a grounder? He made plenty of great, hustling catches. I think AR is definitely your typical “hard-nosed-player”, but I don’t think his “grittiness” is worth 7-10 million a year for four years when his bat will not repeat this season, and when LM has nothing but upside.
But it’s all moot anyway, cuz there’s no way he’s coming to the Mets to play a corner.
lm made plenty of great hustling catches? are you joking? the guy is lost out there. he only makes catches look great, because he gets such crappy jumps on the ball. not to mention he couldnt hit a cut off man if his life depended on it.
Yes, he made plenty of great, hustling catches. He’s lost like I’m a chinese jet pilot. Btw, I’m not a chinese jet pilot.
He is overcriticized and underappreciated. AND 22 YEARS OLD!!!
i would do that santana deal in a heartbeat. mighty high price? i gotta disagree when the player your gettin in return is a proven cy-young caliber lefty starter who is coming into his prime. can you imagine santana, perez, maine for the next 8 years? wow. alongside dwright, reyes, gomez, beltran? im salivating lol
I agree - as long as the trade includes a window to sign him to a long-term contract. Heliman, Pelfry, Humber and Milledge for Santana? No brainer.
Santana
Pedro
Maine
Perez
El Duque/innings eater
Sheezus!
It would be a no brainer because its not nearly enough to get him. The Mets would have to give up their most prized prospect, which I guess is the kid Martinez (for Milledge).
Humber is ok but I doubt he can be considered a top prospect until he regains his presurgery velocity to go with his ‘plus’ curve. I still have high hopes for Pelfrey.
Stop with the long-term contract. Why would Santana do it? He’ll have every major market team bidding for his services next year, and who knows how high the bidding will go? Nobody thought Zito would get 7/130, and if he got that, what does Santana get? 8/160? 10/250? Who knows, but you can bet that he and his agent (Boras?) can’t wait to find out.
If there’s no long term contract, why would the Mets do it? I’d rather they go after a decent starter/innings eater and wait until 2009 to go after Santana.
his agent is not boras, its greenberg (who’s the same agent for reyes)
I know this is off topic, but here is another reason to root for the Rockies…They plan on giving a share of their playoff earning to the widow of minor league coach Michael Coolbaugh. Go ROX!
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3049388
I’ve been going for the Rockies ever since Glavine bought his one way ticket to Atlanta on Sunday afternoon.
ditto.
what would gammons be saying if the mets won the east and the phillies came up short? there was very little seperating the mets and phillies and it wasnt the grit and crashing or whatever of the phillies. oen game difference on either side and then its the phillies that need to be psycho analyzed and not the mets.
gammons is usually good but that is just stupid ignorant blabber.
Even had the Mets won the division they would be facing an offseason of changes if for no other reason than they are old and have several players in decline, most notably Delgado.
Sadly, if the Mets had kept some of the guys they traded then they’d have a young, dynamic bullpen like some of the teams that are succeeding right now in the playoffs. Lindstom and Bell performed very well this season for the Marlins and Pads, respectively, and LIndstrom especially looks to have tremendous upside.
Arrogant Omar.
Lindstrom threw straight fastballs. Just because he and the rest of these guys found something elsewhere, does not necessarily mean they would have succeeded in NY. I am seriously concerned with our scouts and minor league coaches developing our talent. Very little comes out of the farm on a yearly basis. Our farm system is either high profile prospects or crappy never gonna make its. If we could find some middle ground, we might be able to develop our own #4 or innings eating starters/bullpen. Look at the Mets draft, they drafted alot of relievers that will hopefully fill the roles on Bell, Lindstrom etc. within a few years. Minaya made those moves to get younger and could nto have foreseen the entire bullpen collapsing and both Sanchez and Padilla being unavailable for the entire season. Also, Burgos went down. Not his Plan A, B, C, D or Q.
Onar’s plan was “F” for failure…can’t defend his bonehead moves in ‘07….
You do know when you gamble, that you lose sometimes. Not every bet pays off. I hope we get Steve Phillips back for you.
Sorry but gammons is right. You simply cannot compare the grit of the phillies players vs the mets…no way do beltran (mr softee) , delgado (mr get bored), reyes (mr gave up playing over the last month) compare favorably in this area vs the phils. I don’t like the phils as I am a mets fan but you have to admit that our team has some serious issues with the intensity of the players…
beltran played hurt, more hurt than anyone arguably and still performed well in the field and at the plate in september, i agree this team lacked that fire but dont put beltran in the same category as delgado and reyes in september.
Assuming the mets get a window to negotiate with Santana, I would trade any or all of Heilman, Pelfrey, Humber, Millege, etc.
believe it or not, the only young player I dont want to see the mets deal is Gomez. I really feel that this kid could blossom into Alex Rios, 20-25 Hr. 20+ steals, he really looks like a player to me. I dont see that skill set with milledge
I would rather plug Milledge in every day in RF and trade gomez if he could bring back what you need. Yeah he is fast, but will he ever develop plate discipline?
he just may be the next Timo Perez
I agree…keep milledge and get rid of weak hitting, steal third with two outs gomez!
And I was on here all offseason begging for Eric Byrnes, this team needs toughness, it needs more guys who are high energy, High emotion,
I love Alou, Delgado, Beltran, but I dont want a team full of them
The one guy that would fit this team of “boring” players need would be Byrnes, He is really really good and I happen to think that he should be in consideration for the MVP award, it’s just a shame that he is already signed on by the D-backs. But there’s no reason why a guy like Miledge or Gomez can’t be just like him bec he does’nt really have that much talent, he just really cares and plays as hard as he possibly can every single second, and he never gets “bored”!!!
Actually, the mets and Phillies have a lot of the same issues. The only difference is, their smoke and mirros BP held together better down the stretch, and they incorporated some new guys better.
Maybe the Phils aren’t quite so old either.
But, they have a core of excellent young position players, some stiffs (3B, LF mostly), and a whold bunch of questions on the pitching staff.
I think Burrell is finally gone (or does he have 1 more year?) In any case, he is due to get hurt again.
Rowand leaves, that leaves a hole.
3B is a wasteland for them. Rollins may have had a career year. Catcher is a rookie, but looks OK.
So, like the Mets, they need to fill a couple of positon spots, but the big guys are back. Their rotation is a wing and a prayer, and the BP needs a bunch of new arms.
Sound familiar? Actually, it sounds like just about every team in the league!
exactly. but becaue they made the playoffs, their team had all the extra grit and hustle and all came to play every game. unlike the teams that didnt make the playoffs, who must somehow try and build a team than can recreate those intangibles.
what a bunch of garbage. thats lazy analysis at its worst. any asshole can pick the best players on a playoff team, talk about sweet they are, and say the teams that didnt make it ‘just didnt play hard enough’.
rrrraaaaahhhhhh hulk smash!
right on, hulk.
I’d love Santana, but he’s not the only guy we should focus on.
Free agents after next year:
Santana, Brad Penny, Jake Peavy, Jeremy Bonderman, Ben Sheets.
Penny or Peavy would be close to, if not quite, as good. I believe Dontrelle Willis is a free agent as well. Get Willis on a team where he doesn’t have to try to win every game by himself, and he’ll be fine.
No trading Reyes for Santana. That would be terrible. So Reyes went into a slump and got unhappy. As if that hasn’t happened to 24 year old players before.
gomez’s swing is completely out of control the bat is swinging him he almost falls over routinely while missing pitches. If we trade him for a proven commodity under the age of 30 preferably (sp, rp, of) id be fine with it.
Gomez is 21 with unlimited upside. Think Alex Rios.
im not doubting his potential but then again i also didnt doubt alex escobar or alex ochoas potential either.
I’ll buy that. But Gomez is younger than those guys and I have never seen either of those guys have success at the ML level. Gomez has had some flashes that indicate potential. But it can go either way.
As a general rule I am in the camp of those that prefer to build from within. Having said that, I think Omar’s biggest mistake was not getting a front line starter. And you have to give talent to get talent.
Yes YES YES to Rowand
He’s worth more than his stats.
Sign A-Rod, move Wright to first, do the Kaz Matsui thing with Delgado - ie, give him away and pay most if not all of his salary. He is done.
If A Rod decides to opt out and leave the yankees, it will be because he wants out of new york and the mets will not be an option for him. Besides the size of the ridiculous contract that it would take to get him….let’s forget A Rod and go after some more practical delas to fill the holes…
I think A-Rod would love to stick it to the Yanks and there is no better way to do it than to sign with the Mets. And it wouldnt cost existing prospects. They could have A-Rod and still use Milledge, etc to shore up the rotation.
But guess I agree that all things being equal he might prefer the Angels or Dodgers money.
I dont think there is much question that he will opt out of his contract.
wouldnt the best way to stick it to the yankees be to sign with the red sox? the mets are viewed as a little brother by the yanks, theyd probably laugh at him if he signed with us, if he signed with the sox or even anaheim then theyd be mad.
Not that I am for this, but how about signing A-Rod to play short and including Reyes (and his very reasonable contract) and a package of youngsters to Minnesota for Johan Santana and Joe Nathan (whom they are looking to move).
I agree. Our pitching staff is not good enough for us to afford to lose maine…no way
Isn’t Santana a BORAS client? If so, that means you can forget any ideas of a sign and trade. he’s GOING to market..as every Boras client does and I just don’t see the Mets overpaying him the way…let’s say a Texas MIGHT do.
Granted, this isn’t a Barry Zito situation, where he’s not worth the loot. Santana is worth about every penny he gets. That said, I just don’t see the Mets overpaying for a singular player like that.
If you trade for him now, you may only get him for a year..and at what cost? It’s a tough call.
I’d love the guy on my team but getting him is a lot easier said than done from an organizational standpoint.
In this baseball market there is no overpaying Santana. If he is good then he is worth $20mil a year to the Mets.
What is Zambrano worth to the Cubs or Webb to the D-Backs or Sabathia to the Indians? They are both the anchor of their teams. Which is what Santana would be as a Met.
Your point is well taken. My point is..”someone” is going to drive his price into the atmosphere and I think at some point, the Mets are going to cry uncle.
My point is that the Mets should be the ones making another organization cry uncle. Its what they did to get Pedro, somthing I thought at the time was misguided (because I thought no way he lasts through a four year contract).
If you add up the contracts of all the pitchers Omar signed or brought in this offseason to compete for a starting slot then $20 million seems even cheaper: Park, El Duque, Williams, Lawrence, Sosa, Glavine (a Brave, ugh), Vargas, etc.
I hear you and if went down that way, i’d be more than happy because I completely agree with your assessment. My feeling is though, that the price will go well beyond $20 million because you’ll have a guy like Hicks say.. “Ok.. 30 mil” and I don’t see the Mets saying, Ok..32.
We’ll see how it all plays out. I’m just a little cynical when it comes to Boras clients, I suppose.
santana is not a boras client.
I have no problem with the Mets overpaying for Santana. Pitchers like him don’t hit the market very often. The problem I have is giving away young talent, and then being forced to have to sign him. Omar would be at the mercy of Boras, who would whisper about 10/$300 million offers. The pressure would be on Omar to resign him in order to legitimize the trade.
Would anyone be willing to trade, let’s say, Reyes for Santana, and then have to watch Reyes light it up in Minny, while Santana won Cy Youngs for the Yankees? It is not worth the risk.
Why does Gammons think the O’s would be in such a hurry to dump Hernandez? Omar should tkae a look at the FA market and try to sign Yorvit Torrealba. I’m all for trying to pick up a “Joe Blanton” type, but would Milledge be enough? Blanton gives you a lot of innings, but in every other aspect, he’s just like a bunch of pitchers the Mets have. Decent, OK, stuff, but not overpowering.
I have just the “crash the wall” type the Mets need - David Eckstein. He’s a FA, and Omar should call him and ask if he’s willing to play 2B. He’d be a perfect fit with the Mets, and would make a great #2 hitter.
I like the idea of Eckstein…he is tough……
I’d prefer to have “good players who produce” instead of “gritty players who grind it out and play the game right”.
Eckstein has zero power, and doesn’t have an awe-inspiring OBP (Not to mention his lack of an arm). I don’t care if he “knows how to win”, because he’s not a great player. Period.
This mets team has too many players who are low key and you must have a mix of players who have heart, combined with good ballplayers who are laid back but the mix of personalities must be healthy to prevent the malaise that deeply affected this team this year…sorry but this mets team omar out together has no leaders and no one other than lo duca who showed any intensity on the field…combined with the even keel manager they seemed lifeless way too often…
Not that the Twins will be pushovers, but Terry Ryan seemed like he always got the better end of deals. Maybe that’s my perception, but trading Pierzinski for Bonser/Nathan/Liriano may be the greatest steal we’ve seen in the last 20 years of baseball.
That being said, with Ryan gone, maybe the trading experties won’t be quite the same. By no means do the Mets get Johan with ease, but maybe it’ll be slightly easier than it would have been 6 months ago.
It is naive to think that the Mets can net Santana with a package of Milledge/Gomez, Pelfrey/Humber, and Heilman. This is the best pitcher in baseball we are talking about!
I think that throwing Maine/Perez into the aforementioned deal gets it done. No way Santana gets traded for a package that does not include a major league proven arm.
If Maine, Milledge, and Pelfrey gets put on the table, I think you have to take it. I honestly do. Especially if we are able to negotiate a long term deal with Santana. Simply put, he is the best pitcher in baseball. A 1-2 punch of Santana and Pedro make the Mets immediate favorites to win the NL pennant.
As much as you have to love the young guys and the potential and hope they provide the fans, them achieving Santana-status is the best case scenario. We have a big market club, so the money differential should be irrelevant. Santana is a once in a generation pitcher, and should be acquired at all costs.
While I don’t like the idea of “mortgaging the future” for him, he is the only player I would do this deal for. Not Peavy, not Zambrano, not Webb. Only Santana.
Maine, Milledge and Pelfrey will not get Santana. Sub in Martinez for Milledge and then you might have a competitive offer for Santana. Maine is a third starter on a good team and Perez, in a way, is worse - he is just too inconsistent to be considered reliable.
Please explain to me how F. Mart is better than Milledge? Milledge has already shown something. F. Mart is a very raw prospect. Milledge is also a CF.
Ridiculous
Your best hitting prospect AND your best pitching prospect AND one of your most reliable relievers? I’ll say again, for a pitcher whom you can probably get for CASH in ‘09, when we will have lots of cash? AND who is in a buyers market because of how many ACE pitchers will be available?
Is the whole of the mets universe on drugs?!
I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY EVERYONE THINKS.
IF SANTANA IS TRADED. WHY DO PEOPLE THINK. HE WONT SIGN A CONTRACT EXTENSION WITH THE NEW TEAM. WHICH MAKES THE METS OUT OF LUCK.
WHY EVEN RISK IT?
Interesting argurments about Arod, Reyes and Santanna. I posted this proposal the other day. Check it out.
http://metslifers.blogspot.com/2007/10/blockbuster-proposal-deal-with-devil.html
bryan
metslifer.com
You know what the great thing is? Whatever Omar does, it will be the wrong move.
Because that’s how it always works with this team
May not be the wrong move, but I can guarantee that 1/2 the posters will hate it, and the other 1/2 will love it.
Then, a year later, the 2 groups will switch sides!
So, whatever Omar decides to do, go al lthe way with it. Don’t make a plan, make a half a’d start, then get nervous and reverse course in midstream.
I don’t see Maine going anywhere. Too hard to find pitchers with that experience and upside for that price.
I also will go down with the ship plugging for Milledge to get the everyday RF job (or LF if Alou goes?). He is going to be very very good, and soon. He just needs to be given the job so he can relax and get comfortable.
Lots of young guys never really got it going (at least not with their first team) or lived up to their potential after getting yanked around. Up and down, get a job then get benched for 2 weeks after 1 mistake, that kind of stuff.
LM does have the tools to contribute right now. I would rather trade on the upside potential of Martiniez or Gomez to get help for right now.
I think LMillz will be our best player soon…
the kid is young… real young…
2 HR in the biggest game of the year? Awesome…
The attitude to tell NYC: F-Off… Awesome (not NYC the met fans… NYC the media, and the constant pressure, and people trying to make him bad…)
Trading him for anything short of Santana will be something met fans will regret for a long long time.
I agree. Milledge is unfairly villified in the media for any little thing that he does. For those of you who listen to Mike and the Mad Dog, on Monday they were killing him for not hustling after Dontrelle’s triple. Are you kidding me? He was running after it no differently than Johnny Damon chases a ball in left field, but Damon is well liked.
Give him a chance. I think he can be a good player.
Milledge was jogging to the ball in the biggest game of the year. I was one of the people getting on him on MetsBlog for doing so. I could care less what he does with his personal life. The drama stops when you step onto the baseball field. I do not care about the dancing or the high fiving. Mental mistakes should not keep happening. You cannot not run on the bases with 2 outs. You cannot jog in the OF after a ball unless a player with the wheels of Mo Vaughn is running. Doing crap like that does not help his cause. I doubt he is a stupid kid, but he sure plays like it sometimes.
He has alot of talent and I think he can be a good OF one day. His true value is as a CF though, not a corner OF. Which is why his trade value is higher than others have previously perceived. All the same, I would rather trade Gomez than Milledge. Milledge shows me something with the bat, Gomez does not. Yes, I realize they are both young, but that is just “my gut”.
I like Milledge better than Gomez also, but I saw that replay 3 or 4 times. It didn’t look like a trot. Granted, it didn’t look like an all out run, but it certainly wasn’t a jog. Did you notice how far off the line he was playing? I think that had more to do with Dontrelle legging out a triple, than did Milledge’s jog/run. I just think that people look for any ammo they can possibly use against this guy, moreso than any other player. Wright and Reyes are teflon.
Bottom line is, we won’t know what we have until we give him an every day job. Why not bring Shawn Green back as a backup plan (did pretty well in his bench role at the end of the year) and part time player along with Endy.
I like Milledge, but someone has to play father to him on this team. Wright had Floyd. Milledge needs someone. I think your argument above is just splitting hairs. Yes, he wasn’t walking to the ball, but he definitely wasn’t hustling either. Reyes was benched when he didn’t run a ball out earlier in the year. Wright was carrying the team on his back most of this season. The only reason Reyes wasn’t benched down the stretch was that his bat, or his potential bat, was too invaluable to bench in such important games.
Like it or not, Milledge is a rookie and he needs to earn respect. Not having your head in the game, is not going to earn you respect or more playing time.
Some of the criticism Milledge gets is unwarranted, but there definitely is some that is warranted.
I would not mind Milledge starting in RF. I like his potential and believe he is the best OF prospect that we have.
Oh, and if the Mets don’t end up getting Santana, the next best scenerio is for him to get huge $$ from the Yanks, then go in for TJ surgery in May 2009!
[...] referenced in the post regarding Peter Gammons‘ column, Rudy Jaramillo is sure to be among the most sought-after [...]
Didnt read all the way down… so this might have been said… but…
what about signing milton bradley?
A way to add some life into the team?
Milton Bradley is a nut … He’s bad karma for a clubhouse with questionable psyche
My new Mantra
Trade and Sign Johan Santana
Trade and Sign Johan Santana
Trade and Sign Johan Santana
I’d kick down doors to get a guy like Rowand on this team.
Just what the doc ordered
Rowand… sucks.
There. I said it. He only has 10 homers on the road this year, and the rest in that tiny Philly park.
His defense is horrifically overrated. A good centerfielder settles under that fly ball and doesn’t break his nose.
Plus, this is the only big year he’s had. We’ll sign him for 14, 15 a year, he’ll play right field, and he’ll hit 270 with 19 home runs.
Boo.
Not to mention, how did it work out for us last time we had 2CF’s in the outfield? I’m sure Beltran would love it.
I agree. He is overrated and overpriced.
Why not Rowand in right field
Hey Beltran is a serviceable and excellent CF. But we need toughness and leaders. Rowand has leadership balls that Beltran sometimes lacks
Beltran> Rowand in every aspect of the game…hands down…any day of the week.
Except in intangibles.
For a big time player, Beltran has none
So if a guy runs into a fence and breaks his nose and he has intangibles.
But if a guy runs into another OF at full speed and essentially breaks his face, then proceeds to play out the rest of the season with broken cheek bones, he has no intangibles.
While Beltran is injury prone, he is far from a primadonna. He routinely plays hurt. What about his play in houston in consecutive years. Last year, he hurt his knee while crashing into fencing in left center field. This year he made a gamesaving catch going up the hill on the run in extra innings and saved Aaron Sele. I guess those aren’t intangibles either.
Get off of his case. Sheesh. The guy is quiet. He helped carry his team in September when most of the team flat out sucked.
fishman, you’re nuts. Everyone looking for a “hard-nosed” player need look no further than the CFer we have for the next 4 years. He has LEGIT power (not bs park-inflated crap), great heart and every other tool you’d want. Yes, he’s not vocal…to the MEDIA. Do you know what he says backstage? No.
I am sick and tired of people questioning this guy’s “heart” or “intangibles”. The dude is a back-breaking, ball-crushing WINNER. If you want someone who succeeds 100% of the time, buy The Show and set it to “expansion” or “rookie” or whatever, and play your heart out.
Rowan = Overrated and Overpriced: Agreed hopefully by all
Don’t trade any damn body for Santana in ‘08.
By ‘09 There will be a ton of top-tier pitching free agents which will:
A) Drop down the price
B) Ensure that one of them is available.
It is not the end of the world if we get Berlander instead of Santana.
By ‘09 All of our deadweight contracts will be gone: Duque, Delgado, Mota, Pedro (he’s not deadweight, but his salary will be paid.
‘09 is our year to take action.
By the way, I’m thinking that Omar knows that ‘09 is our year to take action, since he designed all our contracts to end in either ‘08 or ‘09.
If we could trust Willie to platoon LoDuca with Castro, it MIGHT be good to sign him. As it is, Willie will go with an underperforming declining vetran over the superior catcher 85% of the time. This is why we can’t sign him and need to get someone else to platoon with Castro, who might be the most underappreciated catcher in baseball right now. He makes less than 1 mil per year.
Gammons is senile. Hernandez has a clause in his contract that prevents him from going to NY team. You might as well just sign Lo Duca. He’s about as productive a hitter and already knows the pitching staff and wants to be back.
As for Santana, no price is too high, IMO. We would be getting the best pitcher in baseball. The best. Not some bum like Joe Blanton (who is basically the next Livan Hernandez) like Gammons suggests. If we had to trade the players Eddie C suggests, let’s do it. Combined, they will never be the impact player Santana is. However, you HAVE to lock him up for 5-7 years. You cannot trade that talent and let it go away at the end of the season. We have the money, treat Santana like a king.
ugh …. I had this argument with people last season … that “bum” Joe Blanton is 26 y/o and just had his third consecutive season throwing more than 190 IP (including two of those seasons over 200 and last year 230!). He puts up a very respectable ERA, has a great BB/IP and BB/K ratio. The one knock on him is he gives up too many hits, but that could also be attributed to the defense he has playing behind him.
Simply put, we should be very, very happy if either Pelfrey or Humber puts together a start to their careers the way Blanton has done. And given we also have Gomez AND Martinez in the minors, if Billy Beane was ever doped up enough to take a Milledge for Blanton deal straight up as was rumored last year, you would have to take it.
Personally I’m off the mindset that Santana is a total pipedream. We don’t have (or won’t part) with the prospects/young everyday players to get the deal done because other teams just have much better farm systems than we do. And I also believe at the end of the day the Mets FO will balk again at signing any pitcher to a long-year, big money contract.
I think I would rather have 5 #3s in my rotation than one ace a couple of #3s and then the castoffs of society rotating in and out every week. Look at trades for the Blantons and Vazquez’s of the world, and I know he had a terrible ‘07, but I will be very disappointed if Omar doesn’t at least give a guy like Jason Jennings a sniff this winter.
Everyone talks about the Coors Field Effect. How about the McAfee Coliseum Effect? Foul territory in that ballpark is bigger than the old Candlestick. I’m sure Blanton gets a lot of help there.
However, the guy did pitch a gem against us this year….but lost.
His park adjusted ERA is like 111 so that’s above average and Oakland Coliseum’s Park Factors are over 100 according to baseball reference, which means its more hitter’s friendly. And the vast foul territory doesn’t change the fact that he walked 40 guys in 230 IP — which is like 1.5 walks a game, which is like better than anyone else on this staff not named Pedro (and we’re talking vintage Pedro here). Did I mention he’s 26 and going to the NL will probably make him Better?
Santana is sexy, but Blanton would probably be the best pitcher on our staff if we picked him up tomorrow.
why would OAK trade him, then?
It absolutely kills me as well. This board is full of people complaining that our starters never go 7. So what do we do? Make fun of an young innings eater. Guys like that keep you in ball games with an offense that should put up more than 3 runs a game routinely. They save your bullpen and our dependable. More than I can say for most Met pitchers over the last few years. Milledge for Blanton straight up is a good deal. Too bad Billy Beane will never do it.
By the way, has anyone seen that Kevin Gregg was shut down with forearm stiffness for a few weeks this season. I really hope the Mets do not pursue him. Forearm problems= Tommy John surgery 9 times out of 10. It is jsut waiting to happen.
ARE dependable*
Look, I’ll admit I was guilty of it myself at times in the past year but crashing and burning to end a season is an eye-opener on this point — we need QUALITY pitchers on this rotatation. It was very important that Maine and Perez got a full season to develop this past season but outside of Glavine (and that’s not even considering his Sept.) the rest of our rotation was a mismatch of “lighting in a bottle” type pitchers that either worked for a few weeks or months (Duque, Sosa) or failed (Pelfrey, Vargas, Lawrence). If we’re legit about “bouncing back” next year and not killing our bullpen we need more reliability than this. I’m not saying give up on Pelfrey or Humber, but it’s not like they’re lighting up AAA, so let them be emergency call-up guys. Let El Duque fight his way into the rotation next year. And for god’s sake, let’s not lean on a Brian Lawerence type unless the entire staff is decimated by injuries.
IMO Omar has to acquire at least one, preferably two mid-rotation starters for next year. There are serviceable guys out there who are not named Santana and rather than chasing the big fish all winter as a feel-good marketing ploy, I’d rather Omar just focus on putting the better team on the field.
Blanton is nothing more than a 26 year old Livan Hernandez. He pitched 230 innings (which would decrease in the NL). He has a decent K/BB ratio (3.5) but he doesn’t strike anyone out (140 in 230IP). He’s nothing special at all.
Santana is a possibility. He’s the type of acquisition that makes you forget about 2007 (and the front office wants us to forget). We will have to give up a lot of talent but we’re getting the best pitcher in baseball. We’ll have him for some very good seasons if we lock him up for 5-7 years. Everyone we give up for him will never be the kind of impact player he is right now. We need an ace next year (Pedro shouldn’t shoulder that responsibility, no pun intended). Santana is the guy to put us up and above the NL. He’s the kind of acquisition that not only makes us excited, but the players. I don’t think you’ll see Beltran and Delgado playing passively when Santana is on the mound. Keith said Doc elevated everyone’s game when he pitched. Johan has that same effect.
Yeah there’s nothing special about a guy who has already logged three 200 IP seasons and walks a batter a game, and is 26 y/o. And while he’s never going to lead the league in Ks — he averages about 6 per 9 IP which is better than guys like Wang and dare I say it, Brian Bannister (shhh, his peripherals stink!).
Sorry, I’m being a realist here — we all talk about how worthless our AAA talent is (Pelfrey, Milledge, Gomez, ect) yet we expect it to bring back the best pitcher in baseball? When guys like Freddy Garcia are bringing back 2 top pitching prospects??? Lest I forgot that other teams have superior AAA talent to offer for Santana than the Mets (the Yanks and Red Sox being two of those teams that have more to offer than us).
I’m not going to get caught up in the romance of acquiring a pitcher that ain’t coming here, when there are more solid attainable options out there.
Anyone go to baseball-reference.com and check out the stats of pitchers after their 28th birthday? Not pretty. Believe it or not, Santana is most similar to Tim Hudson, Sid Fernandez, John Smiley, Roy Oswalt, Mario Soto, John Candelaria, Lefty Williams, Kevin Appier, Bob Welch and Kevin Millwood. I’m not saying Santana would be a bust, but history is against it. Would you trade Reyees for anyone on that list?
I meant to say that history is against him duplicating his previous success. He reminds me more of Frank Viola than Roger Clemens. And Viola did not work out as expected for us, did it? I’m not saying don’t get Santana, I’m saying don’t overpay since his best years are behind him.
The thing is, are you sure that Pelfrey can give us anything. I was not impressed with Pelfrey’s stuff or his heart this year. And who know what’s up with Humber.
So Santana makes some sense. The market will require a blockbuster contract for any #1
Reyes is an unknown commodity right now
WIth his second half performance, he’s in the second division of shortstops. IN the last three months, he couldn’t come close to Rollins, Tulawitski, Ramirez and Renteria
I hope that Reyes potential will return next year
“unknown commodity”
i can’t take it anymore. 2 straight years at the top of the league in runs, hits, sb’s, and triples to go with gold-glove level defense is an unknown commodity.
do some of you even watch the mets? do you remember last year or the first half this year.
good-bye mr. met. hello gold-fish.
wright was unknown after the second half of 2006 or by the end of april too
Yeah. You forgot Jose’s clutch July, August and September too
You really feel good about Reyes after this year.? I’m not so sure about him.
Does he have what it takes to win? Is he mature enough?
I’m not ready to dump Reyes, but he wasn’t close to the other elite shorties the rest of the year.
If you can’t acknowledge that take off your blue and orange tinted glasses
And due, I’m not Goldfish. OK
did i say he had a good second half? how in the world is he an unknown commodity? because of a slump?
even with the slump his production: runs were actually up in the second half. if the offense was decent during the first half of the year that 119 runs would be 130+
not to mention it wasn’t until castillo came over that there was a good, consistent #2 hitter
you’re ready to drop him behind a bunch of shortstops who had better offensive years (one better year) mostly in easy ballparks (colorado, philie, florida).
people actually want to trade reyes. it’s crazy. next year all these fans will pretend they never said it
and i didn’t call you a goldfish. i want to change the mets mascot from mr. met to a goldfish.
no probs on the Goldfish. at least its not silverfish
Jose
You’ve got to be real concerned about the 2nd half. 3 months is not a slump - its a trend.
On the other hand, David Wright’s yellow flags for the 1st 30 days of the season turned into a near MVP season and the reason why we will be building statues to #5.
I wouldn’t consider trading Jose (even for a trade and sign Santana deal_, but his 2nd half brought up yellow flags
RENTERIA?!?!?!?!?!?! You mean when he actually played?
Please consider that all these SS are different players.
Rollins hits for power.
Tulowitski and Hanley are the best all around hitters.
Reyes has the best speed and base stealing ability.
Tulowitski and Reyes are best on defense.
Renteria I am not even going to humor you with here.
…and how underrated is Troy Tulowitski? America is finding out just how good he is right now. Along with Holliday, Atkins, Hawpe, Francis, and Ubaldo Jimenez after Saturday. For those of you who haven’t seen him pitch, just watch him clinch the series on Saturday.
I think it’s obvious that Minaya has his work cut out for him this offseason. Won’t be as easy as simply landing Schoenweis and Alou. Will have to get creative.
Someone tells me they heard on ESPN that the Mets are checking in with Baltimore on the status of Bedard. Any truth to this?
The problem there is why would anyone in their right man give up Erik Bedard for any price? Baltimore can afford him too ….
No, I definitely agree with that. But, then again, why would anyone in their right minds give up Scott Kazmir?
I’ve been doing a lot of bitching about this lately for one reason. Our offseason would have many fewer questions if we still had him.
Yeah …. if I had to spin Kazmir, it would be he was young, unproven and there were concerns about his frame and his velocity derailing his career, but point taken.
With that said, I would sell my soul (or a plethora of our top prospects) for Erik Bedard.
And I know he flopped in NY in ‘04, but looking back at Javy Vasquez’s ‘07 — I wonder what it would take to bring him over in a trade. That guy had a REALLY good season.
I would not mind seeing Vasquez in a Mets uni next year. Here is the problem though. It is tough to win without a bona fide ace. Vasquez is a nice pitcher, but not an ace. Same goes for Joe Blanton. If we had Pedro in his prime, I would be all for getting a guy like Blanton. As of today, the Mets need a dominant, shut the door, losing streak ending starter.
I agree — the problem is, the way this market has developed the past two years, unless you’re capable of developing your own ace, acquiring one via trade or free agency is increasingly more difficult. There is more money in baseball so guys like Bedard or Hallady will probably get linked long-term but their own teams. Trying to be realistic, unless the Mets parted with Reyes, which I think would be a crime, I don’t think they have the chips to land a Santana.
So speaking totally pragmatically, I would rather have a rotation of 5 solid, reliable pitchers, than a mismatch cast of characters we’ve seen the past two years. Pedro, Maine and Perez are a good start. El Duque is fine as a swing-man spot starter. What I don’t want to see is an off-season spent persuing Santana and then starting 2008 with a rotation of Pedro/Duque/Maine/Perez/Pelfrey — because Duque qill get hurt, Pelfrey will likely underperform and the conga line of back end pitchers who have no business getting anything more than a spot start will begin.
As long as we don’t see Chan Ho Park, Brian Lawrence, or Pedro Astacio more than 2 times next year, the rotation should be OK.
I agree that trading Reyes would be a crime, but what if you could replace him with ……dare I say - A-Rod?
Danny…that hurt lol
Oh Renteria was that bad ….
read your statistics and shut up
last time I checked his average was 331 and he had a near 400 OBP. A lot better than JOSE, JOSE
http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/renteed01.shtml
I put absolutely no stock into those stats because the game has changed so much, even in the last decade. Even if he doesn’t duplicate his past seasons, he will be a very good pitcher for us. Well worth whatever we have to give. He’s the kind of guy that can get us to the World Series many times.
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