According to the Associated Press, MLB may suspend players implicated by the Albany County district attorney’s office for receiving banned substances.
Baltimore Orioles OF Jay Gibbons, Toronto Blue Jays 3B Troy Glaus and Mets LHP Scott Schoeneweis have been implicated in the investigation.
In his last 25 appearances this past season, Schoeneweis was 0–0 with 4.02 ERA, while allowing 26 base runners through 20.1 innings pitched.
If you recall, Guillermo Mota was suspended for the first 50 games of last season for violating MLB’s policy on performance-enhancing drugs.
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Allow me to be the first to say… SWEET!
FIRST OF ALL…WHY DIDN’T THEY FIND THIS OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON???!?!? WE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE PLAYOFFS IF NOT FOR HIM…
They should just cut him and Mota … just eat the contracts and move on.
I agree. Say Sayonara and move on!
yes
…i’m no lawyer (and thank God for that), but i’d be surprised if a suspension based on “being implicated” will stand up in court. Mota tested positively. Thats a violation. Period.
Being implicated in potential wrongdoing is fairly weak grounds for forcing someone to forego his or her means for making a living.
Should he be convicted, or plead guilty, hey, that’s great. Sit his butt down.
But we do have in this country something called “Presumption of Innocence”.
If Giambi, Sheffield and most importantly Bonds are yet to receive a suspension with the mounds of evidence against them, then there’s no way Show should be suspended for implications.
With that said, the Mets should use this opportunity to cut their losses, eat his contract … not because he may have used steroids, but because he stunk on the mound.
Wholeheartedly agree on the steroids and the stinking.
Thirded
But we do have in this country something called “Presumption of Innocence”.
This is not accurate. We have in this country’s court of law (a government institution) a presumption of innocence. Different rules apply to the private sector.
‘Presumption of Innocence” applies in a United States Court of Law. Major League Baseball is not a government entity and can apply disciplinary judgements on it’s resources regardless of a lacking verdict in civil or criminal court. It can operate and make decisions about it’s organization just like any corporation can discipline or fire it’s employees without cause.
As long as MLB does not imprison or impede upon Shoenweis’s constitutional rights, this is completely legal.
Danny1986…..you are right, of course (I said that I’m not a lawyer), but it strikes me as weird that on this evidence Schoenwies could get suspended while the Bond’s of the world are allowed to continue playing.
I’m not a lawyer either, but I know a bit about this and other constitutional rights issues. Why? B/C I am sickened by our ‘entitlement’ society and tired of people crying ‘freedom of speech’ infringement over every little thing nowadays. When, in fact, your consititutional rights protect you against one thing and one thing only….the Government. When a non government entity judges you, it’s not called a violation…..it’s called life.
INteresting take on Bonds. But the answer to that one is just too easy.
How much revenue does Bond’s bring in to MLB? Now how much does Shoenweiss bring in?
It’s all about the money. Another unfortunate fact about our country.
I was right with you, up until the money part! ;)
“Greed is good!” -Gordon Gecko
It’s good. In fact…very good.
But only up until when it is used as a subsiitute for common sense.
Haha, very true. I’m sure Ken Lay would agree… ;)
Ugh, should have said, “would have agreed.” Stupid tenses…
Scoeneweis nor any major league player, is not an at-will employee. He is paid under contract, therefore he is entitled to be paid his money so long as he did not breach his contract. This is where the proof comes in, MLB will need proof more than just an implication by a DA office to suspend him. Especially given that MLB will be dealing with the most powerful union in America.
The question is 1) what is the language of his contract regarding steroid use and the proof required for disciplinary action. 2) what is the language in the CBA regarding the same issues.
I wish he were suspended and cut, but unfortunately, this will drag on a lot longer than the off-season.
opps. thank you…you’re right. I forgot about the whole contract thing. His contract will determine the reprecussions of his acts and the definitinon of a punishable act. Which is still a private matter, as opposed to a crimal matter. In this case, guilt is irrelevant. Proof defined by the contract guidelines is what matters.
Isn’t there somethign fundamentally and morally wrong about the most powerful union in America being a union full of millionaires?
The union is a collection of ballplayers that have a specific skill that generates money for owners and the players are compensated. They are paid what they can get. How is that morally wrong?
Tell that to the plant workers over at Chrysler.
When they strike or walk out (whether I agree with their reasons or not), their working class ‘families to feed’ truley do suffer as well. When ballplayers strike or walk out, ronically happens to be the fans (many of whom are the working class) that suffer the most.
The spirit of a union is not to benefit millionaires, it’s to benefit and support the rights of the working class. Ballplayers have the right to unionize. I just take acception to the fact that it is truely the most powerful union in the country. To play a game. Ridiculous.
The spirit of a union is to bargain collectively, and to make sure that the least of their members are not exploited. The “game” they play generates billions of dollars. The players should benefit as it is the work they provide that generates the revenue. The people that suffer the most from a players’ strike or owners’ lockout are the stadium workers that lose their means of making a living. How exactly do fans suffer if no games are played? I never understood that.
IF ONLY the gov’t didn’t interfere with private business! Thanks to one evil judge, the owners were forced to give in to the “Millionaire communists” (players union). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_baseball_strike#Strike_ends
That’s why prices and salaries are ridiculous, and you can’t fire deadbeats and junkies like you can in the NFL
actually it’s the nfl that’s closer to communism. the teams have a salary cap and are forced to share revenue.
baseball is capitalism at its best. super talented workers who freely negotiate their contracts. the only communism in baseball is the fact that the team owns their labor through the first 6 years of their career.
yes and the owners are exempt from anti-trust laws, so they can collude all they want.
The Mets 2007 also had something called “Presumption of Playoffs”
lol
The 2008 Mets “Your steroids have come”
LOL!
dump them both… I think Al Reyes the closer from Tampa is a FA… I’d give him a 2 yr deal to set up wags
you do realize upon receiving that contract he will test positive for steroids.
Some people’s perceptions of Schoeneweis and others in the Mets pen is really skewed out of proportion…
He was one of the few reliable guys later in the year once Willie figured out how best to use him. He was terrible at times early on, but give him credit for figure out how to get it done. And keep in mind that a large portion of Schoe’s WHIP is walks to righties in pitch around or IBB situations to get to a lefty.
I for one have no problem with the Feliciano / Schoeneweis situation in the 2008 pen. They actually need to find someone who can dominate righties.
we DO have someone that can dominate righties, Chad Bradford…oh wait a sec, sorry….we HAD someone
CHAD BRADFORD!!!!!!
If only I had the time to go back to my March rants and cut and paste them into this post.
Hands down….not re-signing Bradford was the biggest personnel mistake Minaya has made in his tenure. Not having his 7th-inning reliable ground-ball made the difference in ‘07/
we didnt resign Chad Bradford bc we needed to sign guillermo mota, and we wonder why people on this blog come on and rant about omar being biased.
no…Omar didn’t sign Bradford b/c he refused to give a reliever a 3 year deal at the time. Mota was signed 5 weeks after his positive drug test, at about the same time in early December when Bradford signed with the Orioles. Omar had a choice to make, and he chose the 2 year/5M cheater over the 3year/10M reliable stopper. Zito had nothing to do with OMars decision to not sign Bradford. That is why the bias argument holds still holds water.
Bias was not why he signed Shoenweiss…it was desperation. But that’s the hole he dug for himself for being so “highly impressed” by Mota’s honesty.
what a joke.
i think the zito argument is a cop out to defend against people accusing omar of being biased. Xavier you proved my point by saying “FORCED” to sign schoenweis, yes they were forced as in had no other option therefore bias or not he would still sign him bc he was FORCED to. I think the jury is still out on the whole bias thing but if i were to argue that omar was biased this would be one of the moves that id focus on.
If he is suspended, do the Mets have to pay him for those games, or does he look approx. 30% of his yearly salary?
Could work out good, let him get his rest and heal and he can come back strong. Wait…Did I say this exact same thing last year about Mota? Nah…
He would lose the portion of his salary. The big deal with Mota’s salary was that it was backloaded to he didnt lose as much. Which now makes him less tradable at $3.2m for 2008.
ugh, it just keeps getting worse with this guy.
Sho sucks, but how can they suspend these players and do nothing about Bonds, Giambi, and Sheffield? MLB players union will never allow it…..with that said, did I say Sho sucks?
potential Free Agent pitchers who might be worth a look.
* – player whose contract includes 2008 option
Jeremy Affeldt COL
Francisco Cordero MIL (can dominate righties)
Eric Gagne BOS (not his dominant old self, but still useful)
Todd Jones DET (could be Bradford type, could be done)
Joe Kennedy TOR (different look)
Scott Linebrink MIL (might be a couple years too late on him)
Ron Mahay ATL (probably not an upgrade)
Joe Nathan * MIN ($6M club option / $1M buyout)
Al Reyes * TB ($1M 2008 club option. It would be stupid to trade him, but it doesnt mean they wont.)
Chris Reitsma SEA (had some nice years in ATL)
Arthur Rhodes SEA (just like every offseason for the past 5 years)
J.C. Romero PHI (dominated the Mets this year)
Kerry Wood CHC (who knows what you’ll get)
There are also some guys out there coming off injuries like Wickman, Guardado, etc who might accept an invitation to ST.
I’d like F. Cordero to take the set up role, and that could free up Heilman to be traded or be a situational guy and maybe Romero as it would hurt Philly. Most of the others arent really an improvement over Moto or Schoe as silly as that sounds.
no offense to you, really…but what makes you think a CLOSER, who can command up to $10 mil A YEAR, would just whole heartedly accept a role setting up? Cordero was money in the bank this year, no way he goes somewhere to set up. Closers are always at a premium. As much as i agree with you and would LOVE to have him, everyone needs to realize that “closers” aren’t coming here to set up, unless they’re traded (i.e. Chad Cordero). It’s a rough off season to have a bad bullpen. Hopefully, Dirty Sanchez comes back strong and some of the AAA guys can make a difference. I bet Omar makes some sort of trade or signing though to help out.
And Show isn’t bad if you try your best to keep him against lefties (and preferably on the road). His numbers throughout his career are good against lefties, specifically opponents slugging against.
well there are cases in the past where closers have taken closer money to set up. Gordon, Karsay, Farnsworth come to mind right away. Of course the Yanks may be the one team that will overpay for injury prone closers to be set up men. I guess if the Yanks lose Rivera they will outbit everyone for F. Cordero.
Its at least worth talking to him about, but not likely as you say.
See my post up above for my opinions on Schoeneweis.
I have no real issue with most of the pen. Sosa, Mota, Heilman, Feliciano, Schoe, and Wagner will all be there. And they have a chance to be great again so long as the starters do their jobs and guys like Smith and Muniz can contribute when needed. One more top end guy would be most helpful. Like a Linebrink or Romero.
How about just releasing him for being a poor performer?
Schowenwies improved towards the latter end of the year. Granted, he sucked early on, but I really think Willie was relying on him a bit too much. He had a good end to the season and think he can help us in the pen next year.
I also agree he should not be suspended just for receiving a package.
I hated the idea of Mota being in a Mets uniform from the day he beaned Piazza, to when he selfishly crossed up LoDuca on the game2 pitch to Speizo, to when he tesed positive for Steroids. He should never had been on this teain the first place.
Realizing this is getting way too philosophical. But my take as a fan is that with the Mets knowingly signing a proven steriod abuser and relying on him through much of ‘07…they got what they deserved. The gods were watching, and they kicked us in the nuts in September with every blown Mota outing. I would be far more heartbroken today if I knew we didn’t have a cheater on the roster, and it were stand-up guys like Bradford or Oliver were blowing those games. But what reaped what we sowed.
Minaya needs to show both these bums the door. The thing about cheaters…they have no heart and cannot rely on themselves to get through a jam. Why would Minaya even consider putting them on the mound in the 7th next year? And if he does…then nothing more can possibly cause me to lose respect for Omar.
Does seem to be a stretch that they could do anything based on these accusations.
However, maybe Scho will be healthier next year? If his is in the pen as a loogy/mop up guy, it shouldn’t be too hard to take.
The spot that really killed them was the black hole known as Sele. If he is replaced by someone that can be used in the regular rotation, it will take a load off the core guys.
Feliciano falling apart hurt bad too.
Sosa or Duque would seem to be the likely replacement for Sele. Sosa effectively replaced the need for Sele when he was moved into the pen, and he pitched 2 innings at a time often down the stretch. Too often in fact…
watch Omar try to justify the trade for Vargas by horning him into the long man role rather that lose him for nothing.
interesting that schoeneweis doesn’t receive the venom that mota ddoes about steriod. to his credit, mota admitted it and apologied. he’s the only player i’ve heard to did this. they both can’t perform well. bring mariano rivera in. 2 year at $30m. worth case scenario he’s over-priced for the yanks
schoeneweis definately won’t be suspended. the shipment dates were before mlb put the rules in place (ex post facto).
LOL- “admitted it and apologized”- yes, AFTER HE WAS CAUGHT!!! IF Sho tests positive, he will do the same thing. Until then, it’s all speculation. The only PROVEN cheater is Mota.
schoeneweis lied. he said he was never sent a shipment. it was sent to his home address. his name was in the database of the company.
we know bonds, sheffield, giambi, palmero among others used. test or no test.
schoeneweis and mota are no different. cheaters.
…shawn green?
i’m so tired of hearing about steroids.
the best thing that can happen is for all the names to be released at once. let it run it’s news cycle then move on.
dropping a few names at a time is great for the “journalists” but it kills the fans and sport.
MLB should create a rule that essentially voids a contract in the event a player tests positive for performance enhancing drugs.
players union would never, ever, ever allow it
I, too, never want to see Mota in a Mets unifrom again. But I think he should be brought to Spring Training and allowed to prove he has some value to a trading partner, even if we have to eat much of his salary and get only a mediocre prospect in exchange. Unless he’s totally lost it, he should have value for someone.
Schoenweis isn’t going anywhere. He has 2 years remaining on his contract (why he got a 3 year deal is beyond me in the first place).
While I hate Mota, he deserves another shot too (not roids). He still has a low-mid 90s fastball, but he went away from it too often. I think he could be a useful 7th inning guy if his appearances are limited. How many times did you hear Keith or Ron saying that “…the changeup isn’t effective if you don’t even show a fastball…”, followed by a double down the line. Maybe Paulie should learn how to put down one finger.
Which one?
Haha…good point. “Forget about the curveball…give him the heater, Ricky!!!”
I don’t think the Mets should just dump Show. He has genuine value as a LOOGY. If the Mets can actually get a reliever or two who can be effective against right-handed hitting, Show will look a whole lot better because Willie will be able to use him properly.
Mota, on the other hand, is worthless. The Mets can NOT afford to guarantee him a roster spot next year.
You know, being from the Albany area, we hear a lot about the DA and his obsession with this. Not to make this a political post, but…He has traveled down to Florida for raids and all over. Not saying that this should not be done, but why is it being done with the Albany County taxpayers money when none of the implicated are from Albany County or committed the crime in Albany County. This is the same DA who ran on the stance that we are spending too many resources on convicting “lower level drug crimes.” When it comes to the quality of life in the Arbor Hill section of Albany, I would want the “lowe level” criminal off my street before I would want Mota arrested. I suppose when Sho comes to Albany for his court date, it would be inappropriate to ask for an autograph?
Even though his autograph has negative value? It’s just going to ruin whatever it is you have him sign…
I agree about your comments about DA Soares….you can also lump Jerry Jennings in there….the Albany School system sucks and is rife with violence and you can’t even get a drink in downtown area with the threat of being stabbed!
I went to SUNY Albany, lived downtown and never felt threatened. Schools are a bit run down though.
As far as Show’s autograph. He is so strong that everything he touches will instantly shatter! They should have known he was on ‘roids when he signed his 3 year deal and went through 5 pens.
Omar cannot make the mistake of counting on Sanchez in ‘08. If he pans out and is healthy it will be a bonus but in no way can we count on sanchez and his injuries and lack of ability to stay in shape. No more hoping guys may get healthy……only go with guys who are healthy that can be counted on in ‘08…..We have had enough of injured players in Omar’s regime…we need new talent…
I keep trying to get info from some albany ADAs I know and let me tell you, there’s a lot of evidence as to what happened. They released the names they could nail, not the ones who were just speculation. But yes, if they get suspended and Bonds, Giambi & Sheff are not touched, it’s garbage.
not to be the fly in the ointment, but could those steriods have been prescribed? Not sure how recoveries work, but he came back from testicular cancer, no? Do the steroid guidelines allow for guys that are recovering from injuries and/or medical conditions?
thats a pretty good point i mean he did have cancer and the word “steroid” is honestly one of the most vague terms thrown around if you really look at it from a medical point of view. You can technically take a “steroid” cream for something as simple as a rash. Considering you have to take a ton of meds for recovery from cancer i wouldnt be surprised if that could have something to do with it.
“Gary Wadler, a physician and member of the World Anti-Doping Agency, said that while it might make sense for someone with hormone deficiencies to take testosterone, he had never heard of anyone taking stanozolol to help with the affliction (testicular cancer).
“It’s not an approved use, as far as I’m aware of,” he said.”
steriodweis had cancer 9 years before the shipments to his home. it’s not an approved treatment.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3045585
by the way. if it was for cancer, i’d support him 100%. that’s not what scott said. he said he never received or took steriods.
im sure it will all work out if show gets suspended…he’ll bounce back…i mean, look at mota? worked for him!
Minaya on the phone: Hey
Schoe: hello
Minaya: NO!
Schoe: Hola!
Minaya: Si! you will now get a new contract!
Yeah, the steroids were prescribed, so theoreticlaly he did nothing illegal getting them, or using them. MLB rules about using a legally prescribable drug are a different issue.
What I am fuzzy on is what exactly is the crime that the albany DA is investigating?
I know one issue is that some of theprescriptions were from some pharmacy mill (a front man doctor?) in Fla. that never saw the players. That is differnet than getting drugs from a mail-order pahrmacy, which is quite common (I get one myself!).
Steroids do have legit medical uses, but I have no idea if Scoes cancer is one of them.
So maybe the DA can prove that he got them in the mail. Certianly can’t prove what he did with them (no positive blood test), and it is a gray area anyway if he should have had them. Especially if they weren’t against MLB rules at the time.
Steroids are NOT illegal. Just using them for non-medically prescribed uses are.
Same as many other drugs (Oxy, Vicodin, etc.) Just ask Dr. House!
What is all your thoughts of El Duque moving to the pen? I think he would be a great 8th inning guy, mainly because he would set the hitters off balance because of all his arm angles and different speeds, and then it would help wagner for the 9th since hes a lefty and throws around 6-10 MPH harder and El Duque is one of the few mets pitcher with some guts. Heilman – He obviously doesn’t have the guts to be an 8th inning guy anymore but he has been very solid for 3 straight years which is very unheard of for relievers, he should try to work on being more of a power pitcher. Feliciano – He was excellent, but willie kept on using him for 2 innings in 10 to 4 games, Willie really should not overrwork him.Schoenweiss – Complete lefty specialist but if these allegations are true he should be released, same goes for mota. Im looking foward to Burgos, the mets will defiantly use him alot to justify that horrific bannister trade, ever since dirty sanchez went down the mets have been missing that power arm burgos has the arm and he is used to closer pressure situations. sosa – ehh I was really never comfortable with him on the mound even when he had that great stretch, but he did get some huge outs like the base loaded jam in washington, I’d like him as the 4th righty out of the pen….. don’t discount Jaun padilla either he’ll be back
Burgos won’t be ready for the first half of the season, at best. His status is more in doubt than that of Sanchez.
I don’t entirely agree than Feliciano was “overworked.” He only pitched 4 more innings this year than last.
I agree that he could be a candidate for spot use in the 8th inning. But really there is no need to replace Heilman. I see Duque getting work as a long man and spot relief in the later innings when Sosa or Heilman are overworked. Getting Duque far less innings will be a good attempt at keeping him healthy.
Schoe is doing himself a disservice by claiming that he never received packages at all, as opposed to (a) they were not steriods or (b) they were for a medicinal use. Not like it is helping Ankiel in the media, but at least he is claiming a legit use. There is clearly going to be some evidence of this stuff coming to Schoe’s house or locker or whatever and then on top of being a cheater he is going to look like a fool (even more than he did on the mound so often).
Please, go ahead and name all of them. All the players are guilty. The ones who weren’t taking them but knew who did are cowards too. Money was being taken out of their pockets. Taking steroids unless prescribed by a doctor is illegal. But so is driving over the speed limit, cheating on your taxes and stealing your neighbors newspaper. That’s why it’s really not a big deal to most people that players use/used steroids. Most people have some scam, little or big going on.
suspending guys for taking steroids when it wasnt against the rules is retarted
\
just sayin
actually it would be for receiving them, not for taking them, as they have no way to prove that, as obvious as it seems.
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