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Last Friday, former-Braves GM and current team president John 
Schuerholz appeared as a guest on Colin Cowherd’s ESPN radio show.
Schuerholz, on super-agent Scott Boras, and his suggestion that Alex Rodriguez could be worth $30 million per season, while speaking to Cowherd…
“I think it’s obnoxious…for someone to suggest that this is a valid salary level for a professional athlete, no matter what kind of voodoo economics they can do in analyzing the books of MLB, it’s absolutely asinine…
“When he presented us with that kind of offer with Andruw Jones, we found it so ridiculous and obnoxious we didn’t even respond. It didn’t even rise to the level of requiring a response. It’s just idiotic.”
…well, i guess it’s safe to say that a-rod will not be playing for the Braves any time soon…
For other highlights in written form, check out Neil Best’s outstanding blog for Newsday.
Meanwhile, at his blog for the Daily News, Adam Rubin provides a very, very candid, 250–word quote by former-Mets GM and current ESPN personality Steve Phillips on how ‘negotiations’ with Rodriguez went handled with the Mets seven years ago under his watch.
Phillips tells Rubin of Boras’s demands back in 2000 for Rodriguez, which included, among other things, opt outs after three, five and seven years and meetings with ownership to discuss scouting reports of the team’s minor-league talent.
Phillips, among other interesting comments, as quoted by Rubin…
“He gave me this book they had put together for everybody. He went through his rundown…He said, ‘All these things have to be part of the deal or there’s not a deal.’…I just wrote everything down and digested it all and told ownership about it…they said, ‘Okay, just tell them were out.’ We told him we were out…It wasn’t any sort of a setup that the Mets had interest in before…I will say this, and I think Fred Wilpon has said this: There’s no way the Mets would pay $25 million a year at the time…The dollars were never negotiated. It’s structure was beyond what was appropriate at the time.”
…you have to go to adam’s blog and read the full quote…it’s amazing what boras had been asking for…the thing is, in hindsight, it appears he didn’t get half of what he was looking for…the thing is, even the half that he did get would probably have still been unacceptable to the Mets, which can only make me think he is unacceptable to the Mets today, as well…
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As much as it pains me to say it, Bravo, John Schuerholz!
Scott Boras is a disgusting human being.
Ditto. I hope every GM has the same reaction. Stop the insanity!
Not really. A-Rod would’ve been very valuable to the Braves. And he would’ve make them more than 30million a year, easy. I’m glad he feels this way, because he’s worth it economically, and he’s worth it on the field, as he’s the best player on the field. It doesn’t matter how much you pay him, because he’ll earn it back for you, and he’s the best option. Just because you pay the next best guy half the money, doesn’t mean it’s going to help you win as much. And winning equates to even more money.
I disagree.
Most teams could never just add $30mil/year to their budget, whether it was a longterm moneymaker or not. Contrary to the Book of Boras, signing ARod isn’t a neverending list of positives. There is an Opportunity Cost, as well. If they sign him, that money is now unavailable to be spent on the rest of the team. So you have ARod, but you lose the opportunity to add/retain the other key pieces to the puzzle. That’s exactly what happened in Texas.
How many World Series Titles did you say A Rod had????
LOL, A-Rod has zero rings. He’s never even played in a world series. That’s how valuable he is to his teams!
This idea that A-Rod rakes in the money for owners is bunk. The Yankees were making bucketloads of money before A-Rod was a Yankee. And they were drawing droves of fans and winning too before he came aboard.
In Texas, attendance never rose when A-Rod was a Ranger.
If Boras is a disgusting human being, then what do you think of the “small market” baseball owners who intentionally keep their payroll down so that they can maximize profits and receive extraordinary handouts from revenue sharing at the end of the year?
Boras asks for, and gets, big dollars because the owners have big dollars to spend. He gets the owners to part with their profits. It’s part of the process of capitalism. That makes him disgusting?
yes
no
yes
“then what do you think of the ’small market’ baseball owners?”
they’re disgusting human beings too. :-)
“It’s part of the process of capitalism.”
That doesn’t make it right.
Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should.
Answer this: Has Scott Boras made MLB better or worse?
Answer this: Has Scott Boras made MLB better or worse?
Is it his role to do either? His job is to extract the best situation possible for his client. And in most cases, the best situation = as much money as possible.
But to answer your question, I don’t know that he’s made baseball better or worse. He’s certainly had a more positive impact than, say, Bud Selig.
yes. captilalism is 40% good.
the other 60% is deforestation and melting ice caps.
global warming is A-Rod’s fault.
My memory, faded as it is, remembers a few short years back when Boras wanted 5 & 50 for Millwood. No one bit, and he was forced to play for a one year contract.
It may be time to call Boras bluff and not give Rodriguez more than 6 years. I know it sounds like collusion, but someone has to say no.
It would be funny if he was offered less per year than he gave up bu opting out. Probably won’t happen, buy it would be funny.
There’s no way it would happen. What’s amazing is that right now, Alex Rodriguez is probably as valuable as any player has been in the free agency era during their free agency. Now that there are specific numbers that can be put around a home run chase, Boras can even quantify out what that would be when Rodriguez gets to that level.
Pretty crazy, but maybe the Mets pull off the Yankee cycle and sign:
ARod- have him play first, like his idol, Mex
Posada- give Alou someone to high five
Rivera- Enter Sandman comes on, are they going lefty or righty
Pettite- ok, maybe not Pettite
as ridiculous as the demands will be it only takes one stupid owner and im sure boras will find him and take advantage. pass on posada and pettite but ill take arod and rivera.
haha I like the Enter Sandman lefty/righty idea. Tony LaRussa would be crapping his pants wondering who to pinch hit
Collusion should be perfectly acceptable in MLB as they are exempt from anti-trust laws.
yes but not according to the general operating agreement between the league and the union. the league gets whacked pretty hard when they get caught.
meh – you gotta figure there are maybe 10 teams with the financial means to go after A-Rod. I don’t think it would be too hard for the owners or GMs of those teams to meet discretely and have a talk.
In fact, they don’t even have to meet. They could just state their opinions out loud as Cashman and now Schuerholz have done. It would be nice if something similar came from Omar and Theo as well.
thats what the plan would be in theory, but it only takes one person saying one thing and then doing another to ruin it. its like OPEC, they all say they are going to stick to quotas but every single one of those countries not at capacity is selling oil on the black market.
any effective form of colluding would probably be too obvious not to get caught. best thing to do is let the market correct itself, ie watch as stupid contracts like zito’s blow up in stupid owner’s and GM’s faces. boras’ reputation has already done damage to his negotiating leverage, as seen by the statements of phillips, schuerholz etc.
Ask Kirk Gibson and Dave Kingman about collusion.
I’m sure some economics guy will point out the flaws of this argument (and Im sure there are laws in place to prevent it from happening), but shouldn’t a free market allow for both inflation and deflation? What I mean is, over the past 15 years, salaries in baseball have skyrocketed out of control, and at the same time ticket prices, concession prices, etc., have also skyrocketed. Now, obviously, there are people (we, the fans) willing to pay these high ticket prices, therefore the owners are willing to pay the high salary prices, which is why this will never happen, but why wouldn’t it be ok for the owners to get together and say “hey, this is getting out of control. Why don’t we all agree to scale back the salaries of the players, and in addition either stop raising prices at the parks” (or if they’re feeling really generous, even lower prices). If the ballplayers don’t want to play for less than $15 mil a season, well, they can go find other employment, and the owners I’m sure won’t have much problem finding someone to play for less money than that.
I know the Players Union is ridiculously powerful, but what never gets talked about is that the players need the league just as much as the league needs the players. Most of these Major Leaguers never went to college, and a lot of those that did probably knew their future lied in baseball, and therefore weren’t exactly Dean’s List type students. I’m sure, if push came to shove, they’d be willing to play baseball for merely $5 million a year instead of $10 mil.
The players these days, when they’re any good, get signing bonuses right out of the minors, and if they are at all careful about how they spend their money, they have more than enough leverage, should they ever want to strike.
There is simply nothing that can replace the brand value of the players and both the union and management knows it. So long as there is money to be made in baseball, the players will get paid what they are perceived to be worth.
The pendulum should swing the other way with the ludicrous Zito signing and the success of smaller salary teams like the Rockies, D-Backs, and Indians and the failure of the Mariners, Yankees, and Mets. The fact is that when opportunity cost is taken into account, star players are not worth what they have been getting lately.
I believe there was a deflation, for a year or so. I distinctly remember Richard Hidalgo getting an insane, $13M per year deal from the Astros — around the same time of Mike Hampton’s dumb deal with Colorado — and then the owners seeing their stupidity for a little while.
But the winter of 2006/2007, which showed us the dollars given to Gil Meche, Jason Marquis, Chad Bradford, Zito, Suppan has really thrown things off kilter. Kind of like real estate about two years ago.
He’s the enemy, and a cause for much of my pain over the last 15 years. But you know what?…..good for Schuerholz.. I seriously appreciate his comments and the hard line he just drew.
So many of these GMs line up to kiss the ring of Boras, thinking they may be able to edge out a deal and eventually come out on top in negotiations. They’re kidding themselves…and Minaya is not innocent, either. What happens is that they all line up and raise the bid, and the winning bid ends up bending over and overpaying. This causes a saturation of over-payed players in the league. Those costs eventually trickle down to the fan who pays 250 bones to take his 3 kids to the ballgame.
If more larger-market GM’s took this stance, it would make a much more financially efficient market for talent.
He always kep his pitching strong, while his position players played their part. Not a bad strategy.
I think he ends up in Anaheim. Bonds too.
Bonds, Vlad, ARod batting 2-3-4. That would be sick.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up in STL. No one is even considering this as an option. Where, in fact, STL is likely the most ideal place for this putz.
For one…STL, in all it’s cowtown insecurity, does indeed have piles of money to spend. They like to play the ‘poor us’ role of a small market team, but they really aren’t. Their new ballpark sells out every night, they have an outrageous amount of local corporate support, and the once run-down area surrounding the ballpark is now newly developed with high priced condos and shops/restaurants. So there is alot of investment going on. When considering the outrageous lengths that city went through to lure the Rams from LA (won’t get into the details, but let’s just say Tagliabu had to revamp the NFL re-location guidelines based on how mind-boggling one-sided that deal was), I can see how that team, the fans, and the local media would roll out the red carpet for AROD and be completely over-the-top about it. It’s in their nature.
Second…AROD gets to play SS.
Third….AROD gets constant coddling from blind adoring fans 24/7.
Four…AROD is protected by Pujols or vice versa. That is Gehrig/Ruth-esque.
Five…he will hit 50 HR’s per year in that band-box and break Bond’s record within his contract term. As an extra incentive to STL…What else can help downplay the McGwire disgrace?
Sixth.. There’s 5 very good strip clubs just right across the river in Illinois.
STL is perfect for AROD. He can live out the prime of his career in a virtual heaven for ego-sensitive ball players who need unconditioinal love from an adoring fan-base. The team has the money and the need for his services. He’ll get the key to the city, which Boras will likley have as a contract condition. Make that a gold-plated key.
Your 6th point makes ME want to live in St. Loo… ;)
But seriously, this is overall a really good point you make.
Danny – I think you remember that I live in St Louis, as I know you have. All your points are valid, until you remember that the STL owners do not spend money. They won the world series last year and their biggest offseason move was Adam Kennedy. They didn’t resign Marquis, Weaver, or Suppan. Their biggest free agent signing (no tier 1s since izzy) over the last five years or so is Encarnacion. Their is NO way ARod is a Cardinal.
Also, their lineup, although not the 27 Yankees, wasn’t / isn’t the problem. The fact that their rotation is Wainwright, Looper, Piniero, one-armed Mulder, and a bag of poop is the problem. If I were the Cardinals, any money I spend is on the pitching, not hitting. Need I remind anyone why the Mets collapsed?
STL also needs a CF more (with Duncan and ankiel murdering the corner spots) so I bet any money on offense goes to guys named Cameron or Hunter.
I am not disagreeing with the LOGIC you present, but I’m merely saying that a) the Cards don’ t use logic and b) the Cards have one good pitcher.
I know they have the money…but as you so rightly state….it’s just a question of whether or not they will spend it. Considering they have Rolen and Edmonds at around 12M a year (2006 salaries), and just dropped $8M on an 0-3 Mulder last year, they do show an ability to spend un-wisely. But I guess much of that is canceled out by the lower end contracts of Duncan, Ankiel, Wainwright and other low-paid contributers who granted them a whopping 78 wins last year.
This is a team that will draw, at worst, 2.5M attendance regardless of their record. If you sell out every night with an 78-to-83 win talent, you are sure to lose margin if you try to buy AROD and 10 more wins. You’ve practically hit your revenue ceiling already. But you and I both know that they charge $15 for a Bud in that stadium, and $3 for a MIller, and Bud will still outsell Miller 4-to-1. So maybe there is some wiggle room on the revenue.
I got the hell out of STL in ‘98, but I recall a town that constantly wanted the national spotlight, longed to be considered ‘big time’, bent over backwards for Georgia Fontier, and, most importantly…HATED to lose. That was more of the basis for my AROD-STL wedding. But you also reminded me of one larger and more influencial factor…it is also a very cheap town in mentality. Which is much of why I left. And also likely why AROD won’t be playing there next year.
“it is also a very cheap town in mentality”
I’ve lived in St. Louis for 10 years now and your statement above got me thinking. Never thought of this town that way but you know thinking of the bozos I work with and live by you hit the nail on the head. They can’t understand why I love the Mets and get a lot of crap for it. As I tell them growing up in Staten Island and moving to the Midwest doesn’t change my allegiance. As they say here they are bunch of hoosiers… But I will tell you, it is a great town to raise kids.
Excellent town to raise kids. It’s what straightened me out moving there just prior to HS from the stellar 50% drop-out-rate schools in Queens.
However, whenever I go back to visit STL, I cringe at the thought of going to dinner with all my buddies. Not b/c of the food. But because figuring out the bill and who owes what takes longer than the actual phuking meal. The cheapness and the overwhelming insecurity of the town can be a bit too much.
A story…shortly after we moved there, my dad walked on a golf course and was paired up with a few local regular St. Louis guys. He told them he had just moved to STL from NYC and was a minister at a local church. Conversation was going well for a few holes…until one of these morons asked my dad if he liked STL or NYC better. My dad, honest as he is, explained politely that he missed NYC. These clowns chose to not speak to him the entire rest of the round.
Nothing explains the STL mentality better than that story.
That…and the obsession with asking others, no matter how old they are, where they went to HS.
yeah danny, why don’t the Mets go after Schuerholz? Get Schuerholz!
As for Steve Phillips revisionism, the fact that Payrod may have only gotten half what bora$ was asking for in the end is why the Mets needed to have at least gotten involved with a player who wanted to come to Shea to land that piece that would have improved the team perhaps getting them back to the world series. That’s why they call it a negotiation. You are not forgiven, Philips.
Something D-O-O economics…anyone? Anyone? Voodoo economics…Bueller? Bueller?
Boras is out of his mind. I’d be surprised if Alex approaches 30 million. The salaries had seemed to level off there for a couple of years. Then last year — Boom! Mediocre pitchers are getting 10 mil a year.
I don’t argue that Alex is the best player on the planet…but nobody’s worth that kind of money. After his last contract, so many owners werre mad a Hicks for giving it to him, I’d be surprised if he gets more this time. Especially since he hasn’t proved to be the difference maker that Boras claims he is.
I agree with you about A-Rod not being worth that kind of money, but he is absolutely a difference maker. He lead the MLB in win shares and without his production I bet the Yanks struggle to make the playoffs this year.
they may not have made the playoffs at all without him, hes definitely a difference maker.
Perhaps I should clarify my “difference maker” comment. I’ve already stated I think Arod is the best player on the planet, and I wholeheartedly agree, that he can carry a team. As Ceetar said, the Yanks don’t even make the playoffs this year without him. What I was referring to is he has yet to put a team over the top and carry it to a championship. This is not all his fault, obviously. But since Boras loves to draw up little charts and graphs to explain to us all just how much his client will help any particular team, it’s ironic that he has yet to help a club win the biggest prize of all – a championship. It seems to me, that logic dictates it should have happened already. The Yankees are, every year it seems, mentioned as “the team to beat”. Add the best player in baseball to team that is that close already, and one would think multiple championships would result. Funny how that hasn’t happened yet, eh? I mean, the post-championship Yanks made the playoffs before Arod got there, but they haven’t progressed any further since he joined them. If anything, they’ve regressed.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that despite Boras’ bombast and bluster, baseball is not a sport where one player can make all the difference.
“…he is absolutely a difference maker.”
Before A-Rod came to the Yankees, they regularly got to the ALCS and WS. Not any more. They are chronic 1st round losers.
“He lead the MLB in win shares”
Sure, this year. Do you know last year A-Rod was just 27th in the majors in Win Shares? Beltran was #2 and he’s paid about 60% of what A-Rod makes. Last year even Jeter had more Win Shares.
“…without his production I bet the Yanks struggle to make the playoffs this year.”
I think it’s interesting that when A-Rod had his best months this year, the Yankees struggled as a team and sank below .500. But when they brought up the kids — Duncan, Chamberlain, Hughes, Kennedy — that’s when they finally went on their run! I think it’s more appropriate to say that without the kids, the Yankees struggle to make the playoffs this year.
Yankees don’t make the playoffs without A-Rod this year. Seems worth it to me.
Again, as I said right above, when A-Rod had his best months this year, the Yankees struggled as a team and sank below .500.
It was only after they brought up the kids — Chamberlain, Kennedy, Duncan, Hughes, and others — that they went on their run.
I think it’s more appropriate to say without the kids, the Yankees don’t go to the postseason this year.
Do you guys realize that David Newhan is a Scott Boras client? I saw that in the Daily News article and laughed. What do you think the “book” for Newhan says?
If it weren’t for Boras, Newhan would be picking trash off of highways ….
Newhan’s book was a “trashy” novel
Only Scott Boras could get Schoeneweis for 10.8 mil over 3 years. Only Scott Boras.
boras negotiated a free package of sunflower seeds for EVERY game for newhan. it was part of the deal and he did not back down. amazingly, omar caved.
If the Rox can’t lose, are they the Anti-Mets?
I don’t fault Boras…I would like him to negotiate my contracts!!
Ditto.
It will be interesting to see what happens if he opts out. I hope he does, if only because it screws the Yankees just a little bit more!
You can argue that he choked in the playoffs, but without him this year, they probably don’t even make it.
1 team, however, desperately wishes that he opts out: the Texas rangers. As soon as he does, they are off the hook for about $20,000,000 that they still owe the Yankees!
I keep hearing that the Yanks want to sign him to an extension before he opts out because of that money. I wonder if Texas could argue that once the renegotiate, his old contract is moot, and they don’t owe that? Probably not, but worth a try!
I like the A rod to Anaheim idea. A nice safe place for him.
Since I diverted to the Yankees, I think it would be hysterical if they went through all of their Tampa summits, and then decided that Torre would be “allowed” to return (at a reduced rate of course). And then Torre told them to take a leap!
Not that I care about Torre, but just to see the fun of all the FAs backing off their threats to leave if Joe goes. When the money starts talking of course.
besides, if the Bronx is a circus all off season, people will forget about the mets and their issues!
If I’m Texas, I”m offering Boras and Arod $10 mil for him to opt out. Saves me $10 mil and you know someone’s still going to up the ante — so it’s $10M more for Arod.
That would be illegal, wouldn’t it?
In practice, they can’t do that. Directly giving money to Boras/AROD would be illegal….which is a no brainer. But in theory, you actually make a great point.
What TEX can do is approach a Anaheim, STL, LA, or BOS and give them peanuts for one of their over-payed players clogging up the payroll. TEX takes on that player’s contract, and frees up budget dollars sothat team can go after AROD. That way, TEX saves the difference of 20M minus what is remaining on the traded player’s contract, and they get that players services as well. Now that would be smart.
baseball owners, and Hicks in general, aren’t know for being smart though!
Texas has to be praying hard for him to opt out. Even better will be when the Stankees cave on their threat to cut ties and decide to negotiate anyway!
Hmm, I wonder who they will get to play 3rd if he does leave? Hopefully no one good!
except if they did that deal and arod didnt opt out then theyd be holding the bag and once he opts out they dont need to do that bc they already save the money so basically that would not be intelligent at all.
Do any of you watch Mike’d Up? Anyway, they had a Yankees round table on and John Sterling was there. Now, this guy puts the “pompou” in “pompous”. When asked what he thought about the A-Rod situation, he replied in an arrogant tone (obviously speaking on behalf all of the Yankee faithful):
…this is the New York Yankees. This is the greatest stage on baseball earth. He would be crazy not to want to come back.
Right then and there, i was waiting for him to exit stage right and finish off in the bathroom.
That being said, it would be great to see him walk.
haha i just laugh at things like that. the greatest stage on baseball earth, and yankee fans wonder why everyone hates them…id rather win the world series on the anaheim angels (or whoever) then lose in the first round on the greatest stage on the earth.
” which can only make me think he is unacceptable to the Mets today”
that would be a BIG mistake. did phillips ewver hear of the word NEGOTIATE?
Exactly! Boras is a distasteful human being, but Phillips put his personal dislike of the agent ahead of the team. ARod wanted to be a Met. Boras was doing his big, chest-puffing song and dance to try and get as much as he could. Phillips came back with a list of what they would and wouldn’t accept, instead of a “we’re not interested” and I GUARANTEE YOU that ARod would have wound up a Met, and for less than 25 million a year.
Now, I agree, ARod will be too expensive and the Skanks wouldn’t let him come here anyway and will outbid.
Love Phillips trying to cover his own hide for that historic failure.
Where would he fit in now anyways? I don’t want to hear about trading Reyes. A Rod now moves to 2B?
i guess ideally you trade delgado for whatever you can get and move either arod or wright to 1st base. id personally put arod there since he seems to me to be more of a natural fielder than wright and may adapt quicker than david would.
It’s not happening. I think a more likely scenario is moving A-Rod back to short and either trading Reyes (which I’ve calmed down on) or move him back to 2nd. If you can move him to 2nd for Matsui, you can move him for A-Rod.
well im not saying thats what the mets would do but i think the logical thing would be to move arod to 1st bc i think hes the more natural fielder and can adapt…..obviously the key word here is LOGIC which is almost never taken in to consideration by the mets FO or most FO’s around the league.
if a team will pay it, i have no problem with what any player gets unless the ratio of percentage of total payroll and contribution to team success is way off.
Forget a ratio to team success, it makes sense if it’s a ratio of a teams increase in tickets and overall revenue. Unless that’s what you meant.
For instance, I think before 2007, Pedro was essentially free, since he sold so many more seats and over merchandise that his salary was covered.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03052007/sports/mets/wright__id_move_over_for_a_rod_mets_mark_hale.htm
How many championships has ARod won? I say he is not worth the kind of money because he is not a team guy. He’s not a winning guy.He’s an ARod guy and thats it.
How many rings do D Wright and Jose have?
Johan Santana?
Barry Zito?
Pujols has one, is he then the ultimate team guy?
A-Rod is self-centered. If he was such a difference maker you’d think he’d have a ring by now. And he played with some pretty good, big spending teams.
Wright and Reyes are still young and no one is hyping them as the big difference makers that some make A-Rod out to be.
Johann Santana has always played for a VERY small market club. And so has Barry Zito (until this year). So there are good reasons there why they don’t have rings.
The point is not that having a ring makes one a team guy. It’s that A-Rod for all his supposed extreme value hasn’t shown the ability to be a big difference maker to a team’s success. Or it’s only marginal.
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