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In a recent column for FOXSports.com, Ken Rosenthal asks, “If the Yankees make Joe Torre an offer that he deems unacceptable…would the Mets jump in and pursue Torre?”
Rosenthal continues by writing, “While hiring Torre would be an awful thing to do to Randolph, it would be a seminal moment for the Mets in their quest to recapture New York from the Yankees.”
…ugh, sure, seminal is one way to put it…yes, torre was part of the Mets franchise for five seasons, but, come on…that’s not recapturing new york, that’s capturing the enemy and will only further solidify the idea 
that the Mets are second fiddle to the Yankees…frankly, as a Mets fan, i’d be embarrassed…especially if one of Jorge Posada or Mariano Rivera followed him across the river…
…i’m all for winning, but the organization must always remember that fans want to identify with the team, that’s part of the dynamic that keeps us loyal, whether we realize it or not…for some of us, part of our identity is very much tied to hating the Yankees…and the business, public-relations side of the Mets should not forget that…
…i understand that rosenthal is just posing a hypothetical…but i don’t even like thinking about this as a way to kill time…please, let’s never discuss this again…
I’d be 100% opposed to bringing him here – along with Mo and Posada. It would be an injustice to Willie and the rest of the coaching staff.
The last thing I need to hear from Yankee fans is “you guys want to be like us that much?”
Horrible idea. First, I’m not convinced that Torre is that good a manager. He was horrible when he managed the Mets and the Cardinals. Horrible. Then, he took over an extremely talented Yankees team at exactly the right moment. He’s done a terrific job over there, where the entire job is about insulating the players from the press and keeping them motivated. But NO WAY do I want him to manage the Mets.
And please don’t talk to me about Posada or Rivera. This team needs to get younger, and those guys are going to command deals lasting at least three years, and probably more. I hope the Yankees sign both of them to long term deals, and let them live with the decline. We already have that with Delgado and Wagner, and I would hate to continue that trend.
If anything, the success of the Rockies and the Diamondbacks (and even the Yankees this year) shows the benefits of relying on younger players. We need to follow this model.
This second-fiddle stuff annoys me. We’re not second fiddle, except for recently as we haven’t won. Torre would not be an amazing upgrade of Willie, if at all. I wouldn’t do that to Wagner, so no Mo, and I’m not set on Posada, although I’d at least accept him after a while.
We don’t need to do things to ‘keep up’ or ‘react’ to the Yankees, we just need to do the right things to make the team better.
We’re not second fiddle, except for recently as we haven’t won
Um yeah…..so that means that they’re secind fiddle.
Has been for at least a decade now.
That’s just the way it is.
The Mets choked away 2 great chances to try to take back the city these last 2 years.
As it is, the Red Sox are the #2 team in this town, Mets are actually 3rd fiddle.
Maybe if the Mets could win instead of choke, things would be different.
oh please. The Red Sox don’t even factor in. The Yankees only drew 400k extra fans than the Mets. I’d rather have the Mets situation over the last two years than the Yankees. The Mets played more baseball games over the last two years. To Truly take back the city, the Mets need to go to the World Series in a year the Yankees don’t matter past early-mid september. But baring that, it’s very naerly a shared city right now.
You can have the Mets situation over the last 2 years. Going forward the Yanks actually have a future. They have these things called young pitchers. Who can actually pitch! Unlike Mike Pelfrey who is just a laughable bust at this point. God knows what Humber will do but I have little hope for him.
Gun to your head, which team has the better shot at the playoffs next year?
Gun to your head, which team has the better shot at the playoffs next year?
Neither. While Chamberlain and Hughes were impactful this year, neither has long-term success in the majors the way even Maine and Perez do. I’ll take the Mets young core of Beltran-Wright-Reyes over any 3 position players the Yankees will likely bring back. But both teams need to fix problems over the winter so it remains to be seen who will improve the most before next season.
Willie would spend more time trying to wake Torre from his grandpa naps than managing the game. Then again, sometimes Willie manages like he is asleep at the wheel himself…
If hiring Torre were able to get the Mets to also lure Rivera and Rodriguez to the team, then I would definitely appreciate that.
I don’t understand how hiring Torre would make the Mets seem second fiddle. If the Yankees hired Willie Randolph or signed Mike Piazza, that wouldn’t make them second fiddle. Even if they stole Ron Darling for YES. When the Yankees signed Al Leiter, I don’t remember that seeming like the Yankees were second fiddle. I think I thought they were trying to stick it to the Mets- and that time, I think they got stuck.
I dont understand why people want to Bring Rivera to the Mets. This isnt the Mariano Rivera of the late 90’s, this is current Day Mariano Rivera, the one who has blown a decent amount of saves over the last two seasons. We already have ac loser that has blown his decent share of saves, why would we want to bring an aging version of that?
As far as Bringing in Torre, why? we already have a Passive Manager, why bring in the smae thing?
People, just because they are big names and were a Big Deal at one time, doesnt mean that they are going to help anywhere else.
This team needs youth, this team needs Drive, this Team needs a fire lit under them, None of the Fossils from the Bronx are going to bring that.
The Mets need A Manager with the spirit of Lou Pinella, they need Outfileders with the Heart of Rowand and Byrnes.
Now im not saying getting them is possible, bu tthat is the type of spirit this team needs. Stop Dwelling on Has beens and look towards what will be and what will help this team grow.
NO THANK YOU
Rosenthal is a nerdy puke who probably throws a baseball like my 8 year old niece. This is just a over-hyped writer trying to sell copy to the largest market in the country. These writers drive me insane with their touchy feeling quest for a story. It’s alomost as if they wake up with crazy ideas, and decide to publish b/c they know someone will read it and react. And they do it b/c NO ONE holds them accountable. There is no merit whatsoever to this Torre theory. It’s that plain and simple. And Rosenthal should be ashamed of himself.
Besides, don’t get me going on how Torre is so overrated. His dismal managerial record outside of the pinstripes is testimony to that. He didn’t manage teh Yankees all these years, he managed Steinbrenner. The players managed themselves. Besides….his ’style’ hasn’t really produced wonders for his protege in Queens, who clearly lacks the X’s and O’s aspect to managing.
Please stop with this over-dramatic “quest to recapture New York from the Yankees” crap. It is completely ridiculous and is the last thing the Mets organization should focus upon. To my recollection, they were 3-3 against the Yankees last year. But a combined 3-9 to the Nats and the Marlins down the stretch.
Yankees are the least of our problems. Focusing on them will only cause a lack of focus on the real task at hand…which is winning NATIONAL LEAGUE GAMES!!!
And losing focus is exactly what has produced a 0-0 record for the Mets in October.
All the salient points were made above, so I will just go with No. God No.
IMO, torre either goes back, or retires from managing. he can’t possibly need the money, and can certainly get an announcing gig if he wants one to keep busy.
But mostly, he seems smart enough to know that the team won, not him, and if he goes to a team without the payroll and talent it brings, he will probably lose, And that will tarnish his mystical image.
If he sucked as a manager for years before the Yanks (and his teams lost plenty of games, and he got canned twice), and he goes to a team like the Cards and they finsih below .500 again, won’t that pretty much prove that he was incidental to the Yanks wiining? maybe being a stoic buffer against George was a valuable skill, but that really doesn’t have anything to do with managing another team.
Showalter could have won all the rings in the late 90’s just as easily as Torre did.
No way. There is no logic in this at all.
Remember that he also managed the Braves in the 80’s.
2008; Your Yankee Has- Beens Have Come !
can stupid stubborn willie and hire joe :)
The double-standard in this town is ridiiculous. I understand that the Yankees have been the better team for the past decade and get the bulk of the headlines.
But how did the Yankeees get the reputation for being the classier franchise?
The Yankees have left their manager twisitng in the wind, a guy who has worked for them for ten years, put up with his owners hitrioncis for a week, before even meeting to discuss his future. I have neot read one column about this being cruel. Meanwhile the Mets are forced to react within 2 days regarding Willie.
I don’t think Joe is the answer- but for many of us who watched him play & manage at Shea, he will always be a Met. If anyone has “poached” from the other team it’s the Yanks with Gooden, Straw, Cone, Ventura, Torre, etc.
Willie will always be a Yankee- hopefully he ends up there soon, and we can get a serious manager like Frank Robinson to kick some of our ‘bored’ millionaires in the butt.
Good point about a kick-butt manager. Replacing Willie with Torre is not a shift in approach.
BTW, Joe’s a Cardinal in my eyes
Ken Rosenthal is a bum. I really thought it was classy when he referred to the National League as the “junior varsity” in an article the other day.
i really hope the rocks win the WS so the “inferior” NL will win the WS again im really getting sick of this garbage about the AL being so great.
Wasn’t one of the main criticisms about Willie how he didnt get fired up and emotional during games.
Torre is probably worse, he sits on the bench all game. At least Willie is up on the top step of the dugout.
Dear Mr. and Mr. Wilpon,
I’ll tell you how to capture New York. Are you ready? Do you have a pen?
WIN THE WORLD SERIES A FEW TIMES IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
Got it?
Similarities between Torre and Willie: neither has much fire, neither can use a bullpen
Difference: Torre can double switch without screwing it up.
It seems to me that an organization that would fire a manager weeks after publicly stating their confidence in him for the next season wouldn’t be an organization that Torre would want to work for. Especially when that manager is his former protege.
Matt – I am not for Joe Torre/Flushing reunion, however what is your problem in pursuing Yankee players? The Yankees had zero problem signing Gooden, Cone, and Strawberry. This is 2007 dude not 1957. Players move with regular frequency….get over your Yankee obsession!
just want to remind people that the original Mets manager (and one of only 3 retired Mets numbers) was Casey Stengel, who had won 7 World Series as Yankees manager, the last of which was only 4 years before he took over the Mets. Additionally, Yogi Berra took the Mets to the 1973 World Series, who was slightly more well know for his successes with the Yankees. So the Mets do have some precedence in this department.
That said, no way do I want the Mets getting Torre as their manager. If he’s willing to be a bench coach, I’d take him in a heartbeat, but there’s no way he would be willing to take a demotion. I would, however, take Rivera in a heartbeat. I hate the Yankees, but I don’t know how anyone could deny that Rivera is the greatest relief pitcher ever, and is still one of the top 3 or 4 in the game today…and I for one would trust him more than I’d trust Wagner right now. But it doesn’t matter, none of it is gonna happen, so why get all worked up about it.
Anyone else think that Mariano Rivera would be a near-instant solution to our bullpen troubles?
I don’t know man. Mo looked a lot more beatable this year. He is 100% on the downside of his career and would cost a mint. I’m not sure it’s worth it.
Instead of giving the emotional and substance-lacking “But it’s Mariano Phuking Riviera” argument, I’ll address your point.
Mariano will be 38 when next season rolls around. I can see that as a concern, but I don’t see any proof of him slowing down. He appears immune to age and that speaks to his near effortless arm motion. But considering his 2007 stats (I did not watch many Yankee games this year by obvious choice)…..He had 3 loses and 2 blown saves prior to May 8th. This was a time when every reliever in the league was blowing games, which is an early season trend. I don’t grant it much relevance in respect to Mariano’s down-trend. From May onward, he was completely lights out. He is not the Mariano of 2000, but that is not required. Hell, even 80% of Mariano is better than 100% of anyone else. And I am honestly not seeing a Mariano that is at all far from his peak form. He’s phenomenal.
I also think it would benefit him to go to the NL and face batters who aren’t familiar with him. His career interleague and WS stats are phenomenal, and even better when you eliminate the Mets (who have had more success against him) from that equation.
Mariano can go beyond one inning. Has proven to get better as the season progresses. He is automatic in the postseason. Not to mention the instant credibility he would bring to the struggling bullpen. Recent postseasons, and especially this current postseason, has taught us that it is all about the bullpen. If the Mets did happen to make it to October this season, they surely would not have made it too far. And that’s based solely on their horrible bullpen. No sour grapes…just facts.
I would honestly give Rivera $11M-14M per for 3 years. I wouldn’t even blink. Think about it…..we then have an Orosco/Mcdowell tandem with Wagner and Mariano. With Feliciano, Heilman, and an effective Sanchez (best case) or Joe Smith setting them up. That would give us all less concern about El Duque or Humber/Pelfrey developing in the rotation, b/c the best bullpen in MLB history would be backing them up.
This one move would have a positive domino effect on the entire pitching staff. It essentially makes every game next year a 7 inning contest. I would sign Mariano before considering going after another over-paid rotation arm, or addressing the lineup….both of which will likely cost the same amount of dough.
If that doesn’t do it for you…then how about:
BUT IT’S MARIANO PHUKING RIVERA!!!!!
Finally!!! Unequivical proof that Ken Rosenthal is on crack!!!!!
If I had the choice of Willie or Joe, I’d pick Joe. Unlike Willie, he’s won more than one (1) division. But I would rather have a lot of other guys over those 2 morons.
Don’t forget Joe’s four championships…
If bringing in Torre meant firing Randolph, then I am all for it. Randolph is NOT a winner– his team just choked down the stretch. And not just this year…