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At his blog for the ESPN.com, Buster Olney writes that the A’s may move RHP Justin Duchscherer to the starting rotation.
As Tim Dierkes suggests at MLB Trade Rumors, such a move could encourage A’s GM Billy Beane to consider trading RHP Joe Blanton, among others.
During July’s trade deadline, according to Ken Rosenthal at FOXSports.com, the Mets had ‘kicked around the idea’ of trading for Blanton, but the price was ‘too high.’
If you recall, last December, Rosenthal reported that the A’s had discussed trading one of their players with ‘between zero and three years of service time’ for ‘a bounty of even younger prospects,’ and he used Blanton as an example of such a player.
…the buzz in baseball has long been that the A’s continue to eye the Dodgers, who have a lot of young talent and are in need of a durable starting pitcher…
Meanwhile, at Gotham Baseball, Mark Healey has repeatedly written during the last year that if the Mets are to ever make a deal with the A’s it will only be for Rich Harden or Dan Haren.
…if beane continues to ask for milledge, i agree…
This past season for the A’s, Blanton was 14–10 with a 3.95 ERA through 34 starts, during which he allowed an average of just one walk per start.
He has made at least 32 starts in each of his last three seasons.
He is eligible for salary arbitration this off-season, and eligible for free agency after 2010.
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Joe Blanton is a RHP
WE NEED AN ACE
Who is the rockies ace again? Oh yeah, they dont have an ace.
jeff francis is his name actually
And so it begins…
AND SO WHAT BEGINS? POOP?
whats the over under on posts this off season that include the name joe blanton
I’ll go with 35.
Blanton is solid. He eats a lot of innings (230 this year) and doesn’t walk people. He could have been very valuable down the stretch this year. He could slot in nicely into the rotation, but I’m not sure about giving up Milledge for him. If the conversation included Gotay or Gomez, then I might be inclined to say go for it.
blanton is a nice guy to have in your rotation if you already have an ace, since we dont have an ace theres no reason to waste all our prospects on joe blanton unless you are absolutely determined to sign one of the stud pitchers available next winter, along with resigning ollie.
IAN SNELL AND SCOTT BAKER .I WONDER WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO GET EITHER ONE OF THEM?
You mention Gotay and Gomez as if they have similar value. Gomez has massive value as prospects come, many project him as a 30/50 guy at some point. Gotay has little to no value has is swings a good stick from the left side, is a terrible fielder, has no speed, and his as bad as you can be batting right handed. Gomez can play CF for a major league team as a 22 year older next year. He may only bat .250, but he will play GG calibur defense and steal 40-50 bases, while showing pop and getting major league at bats. No way I would even consider Gomez for Blanton. Joe Blanton is the fat version of Steve Trachsel, only younger for now. In 2006 his ERA was over 5.00. He is not reliable. If the Mets are making a deal for a SP from Oakland, it will be for Dan Haren (which we should have done last year before he was possibly the most valuable pitcher in baseball), because Blanton just really isn that good and Harden is Mark Prior. Dan Haren should be as close to untouchable as any pitcher in baseball though, so I say a trade for an A’s starting pitcher is a long shot.
I think your ceiling with Gomez is Alex Rios territory – 20 HR/80 RBI/great glove. Very good, but not 30/50 territory – I think that’s a bit unrealistic….not too many people in the history of the game that have inhaled that rarified air.
More importantly, it’s going to take him another 2-3 years to get to that territory. Is this team built to wait that long? Are they willing to cope with 2-3 years of “young” mistakes for a starting outfielder as Toronto did with Rios? I’m not sure they will, when their immediate needs are so pressing. Going into the new stadium, especially after this year’s collapse, they need to field winner – and that means making sacrifices to fill their most pressing needs (i.e. pitching)…
The team can win with Gomez developing and can be even better with Gomez in stride. And there is F-Mart if Gomez doesn’t pan out. Beltran said that Gomez is better than he at his age.
Mets fans are so greedy. Wright/Reyes/Maine/Perez will be around for 10 years. We have plenty of time to build around them without trading our best prospects for pitchers who post E.R.A.s of 5.00+ in pitcher’s parks.
Furthermore, with F-Mart and Brahiam Maldonado, we can replace Beltran in 5 years. Hang on to these guys darnit! Unless it’s for a young bona-fide All-Star
If the Mets were perennial winners appearing in post season after post season with many trips to the WS I would agree with you that Mets fans are so greedy. But that is not the case. Rather Mets fans are impatient and some are willing to destroy the farm system for immediate gratification. But you also have to realize that when you have a chance to go for the brass ring and let it slip you may find the next chance may not occur for many years. Omar, to his credit, seems to be targeting both long term and short term needs to build a team that contends year after year.
Not so sure Ollie’s here much longer…he’s a FA after this season, I believe – who knows if he’ll come back. Not sure how long Maine’s tied up.
I’m not sure this team has the luxury to have an OF that’s developing on the job, especially next year (and even moreso if Milledge doesn’t get traded). You have to understand the politics of next season…The embarrassment of this year coupled with the upcoming stadium opening makes 2008 a must-win year for the franchise, and I think they’re willing to sacrifice some of the (largely unknown) future to win now.
In that case, politics is going to hurt the long-term success of this franchise.
I agree that Omar is philosophically mixing winning now with a long term strategy, although his decisions this year were highly dubious. That said. We have Alou, Beltran, and Milledge in the outfield and that should be good enough to be competitive now. When Alou gets hurt, Gomez can learn on the job. It’s the best of both worlds if Omar plays his cards right and doesn’t trade his prime prospects for inconsistent third-tier pitchers.
i wonder how much a decent righthanded closer like maybe soria on kc would make a difference not over using billy wagner ?
I am open to the idea of making a deal with Oakland, but Daniel Cabrera is a name that interests me in a trade. It probably wouldn’t cost us the farm in a trade to acquire him either. The kid has a very good makeup to become a dominant pitcher one day. He has powerful velocity on his fastball and could be counted on for about 200 innings. He hasn’t come full-circle just yet, but maybe the Mets can get him going in the right direction as they did for Oliver Perez. With the market for pitching in the ridiculous state as it is nowadays, you are going to have to take chances on some of these potential type guys. You get a young pitcher of Cabrera’s talent surrounded by the likes of Peterson, and mentors in Pedro and El Duque, he could easily be influenced on how to right his wrongs.
Jason Jennings and Freddy Garcia, who are both coming off injury plagued years, are free agents this offseason. They are both accomplished starters and workhorses when healthy. Personally, I am more fond of Jennings myself; however, if the Mets can sign either of these pitchers to an incentives-based contract, I think it would be an avenue worth exploring.
I would be thrilled to have Josh Barfield at second base next year as well. The Indians have Asdrubal Cabrera pretty much locked into the job, and Barfield just came off a sub-par season playing in the American League. He’s only 24 years old and you have to assume that they would be at least open to an idea of a trade. Not to mention, having the youth of Wright, Reyes, Barfield in the infield looks quite impressive going forward.
Cabrera and Barfield are great options if they’re really available (and at a reasonable price)… i wonder how much barfield would cost since even though he lost his job, the Indians still had to give up Kouzmanoff to get him… so even without a spot they know he’s still worth morethan a midlevel prospect…
Barfield in an intriguing option, if he’s a solid fielder. Delgado surely isn’t swift around 1st so a second baseman with range would help close the hole between first and second.
I disagree about getting Daniel Cabrera. Everyone knows he has potential, but this is not the time for the Mets to pick up projects. Nor should they concentrate on Jennings or Garcia. Signing one of those guys should be secondary goal to getting a younger, proven innings eater to replace Glavine.
What if getting Cabrera was tied to a deal to net us some relief help too a la getting ollie with bert. cabrera and ray perhaps? he’s solid but not spectacular and likely to be available… it all depends on cost. you can never have too many young pitchers with top of the line stuff in your organization though…
Yeah I would be intrigued with Ray, but I doubt that Baltimore would be willing to trade both one of their young starters and young relievers in a deal. However, if they can arrange a trade with Daniel Cabrera and Chad Bradford, maybe we can get to something.
Garcia won’t be anywhere near a pitcher’s mound until August at the earliest, from what I hear.
It should be noted that Blanton is young and a proven innings eater, averaging 6.76 innings pitched per start. Haren averaged 6.5 innings per start. Both are young pitchers. Hasn’t Haren already had injury concerns though?
I don’t think the Mets can gamble on Harden at all. If he goes down, I’m not sure how patient fans will be with the team slotting either the young guys or guys like Chan Ho Park into the 5th slot. The personnel of the Mets bullpen isn’t that bad. It’s the fact that they’ve been overexposed that brought them down. If you limit the bullpen use, you will have your top pitchers on the best possible rest pitching every day.
I like the consistency of Blanton pitching for the Mets. I just don’t know as much about Haren to comment about him. His price would seemingly be pretty high with the numbers he put up this year though. With that said, lets see what other players the mets can get
Thats crazy Joe Blanton himself is worth more then the entire Muts francise.
Troll… peddle your wares elsewhere. No one is interested in buying your half eaten goats.
Dan Haren is a stud. He fell back to earth a little bit in the second half, but he has all the things you look for in a front end starter:
K/9- 7.76
K/BB- 3.49
GB/FB- 1.17
IP- 222.2
He’s also thrown over 200 innings the last 3 years. He’s the type of player you unload your farm system for.
Unfortunately, I can’t see the A’s trading him. Pitchers like Haren don’t grow on trees and he’s very affordable for the foreseeable future. I’d love him on the Mets next year, or someone like James Shields from Tampa, but why would anyone trade away top pitchers making below market value?
Please don’t lump Blanton in with him either; Blanton is a middle of the rotation guy at his best and Haren is a front end starter.
agreed…Beane is a tough dealmaker and it would be painful to do this, but I wonder if pelfrey milledge/gomez would get Beane’s attention. Haren is stud and is two years away from free agency. Haren/Maine/Perez/Martinez with El Duque/Humber/Mulvey as your #5 starter isn’t a bad rotation.
Perfect description of Haren. All in all, considering age, arb. status, salary, and on the mound performance, I would say he is the best value in baseball for a pitcher. He could probably net more in prospects then any other pitcher in baseball.
how about Matt cain?7-16 record but i think he could really turn it around in ny!
He could turn it around anywhere. It is very rare for a pitcher to have under a 4 ERA and win a third of his games. The Giants are not stupid. It would take a lot of chips to potentially pry him away.
I won’t talk about prospect packages. Just take 2 of our best 5 prospects and send them to Oakland already. If Milledge is a deal breaker, send him.
A guy who can throw 200+ innings and doesn’t get himself in trouble w walks is worth it.
I hope we go after two guys like this.
Johan Santana pitched in four seasons out of the pen and as a spot starter before becoming an Ace.
Koufax laboured for 5 seasons before putting it together.
Pelfrey, Humber, Mulvey, Guerra – All could take 3-4 years before putting it together. One could emerge in 2008 as Fernando Valenzuela and be dominant from day one.
there is so much uncertainty with young players, that to risk the potential of two or three players for a sure thing should be a no brainer.
It even took Kazmir three seasons to really put it together. Do we really have that kind of patience?
During those three seasons he was like 19-20-21. There’s a difference there.
My 2 cents is no Milledge unless it’s Haren. No deal for Blanton. If Oak does not need an outfielder that badly, tough breaks.
I said this before, Blanton reminds me of Brian Bannister. I don’t think Omar is a fan of soft tossers, so I don’t think he is interested. There is no question that the Mets could use another starter. The bullpen though is what needs to get fixed first. I see the rotation so far as follows:
Pedro, El Duque, Perez, Maine, Pelfrey. Obviously, there are health concerns with the first two. I do like Pelfrey as the fifth starter though. I don’t believe there is much more he can learn down in AAA. Give him the spot, and live with the results.
Blanton throws pretty hard, if I’m not mistaken. He could very well thrive in the NL. I was impressed by his start at Shea this past year— 14-10 with Oakland could very easily translate into 16-9 or something with the Mets, and we’d all take that.
His fastball sits at 90-91. His 12-6 curve is his best pitch though. But you’re right, he’s not a typical soft tosser. In fact, he’s very comparable to Humber in terms of stuff and style. If Glavine leaves, Blanton would be a good replacement for his 200 innings.
the best criteria i would consider for trading for a pitcher for this rotation is would they start one of the first 3 games of the playoffs. if not, move on. blanton does not fit this criteria imo. i’ve seen him pitch and i’m not impressed.
You need 2-3 studs to be successful in the post season. You still need horses to get there. Did we fail to learn from history already?
Exactly. The bullpen was dead in September from continually having to come into games in the 5th and 6th innings. With the lone horse in 2007 probably leaving (Glavine), it is important to get someone who can replace his innings. It’s possible Pedro can pitch 200+ innings next year, but it’s hard to bank on that.
The solution is simple… stop coddling these middle of the rotation guys and let them pitch 7-8 innings.
“You need 2-3 studs to be successful in the post season. You still need horses to get there. Did we fail to learn from history already?”
Exactly, because JEff Weaver and Jeff Suppan were studs last year. Jeff Francis is solid but certainly not a bonafide ace. It is all about getting hot. One thing we cant do is include Ollie or Maine in anyd eals because that just opens another hole. We’ll see what happens.
Jimmy Rollins said Mets win division like Jets win superbowl holla.
Just like the Phillies won the World Series .. holla.
Just like Iggles win Suoer Bowl . . . holla.
And so on and so forth.
Hey HowardMVP, where else can you win a division title and be on top of the world, then get booed off your own field 4 days later? Only in Philly.
It’s a phony baseball city with a phony NL East championship team. That team showed their true colors in the first round. Sorry but JC Romero, Tom Gordon, Kyle Loshe, and Kendrick were bound to come down to earth one day. Only guys I got respect for are Howard, Utley, and Hamels.
Other than that, Philly sucks. So don’t come around these parts saying Joe Blanton is worth more than the entire Muts franchise, when your city is built off of a fictitious movie.
ur moma sucked my cockayea just like u did it to jroll HOLLA
A poll question: How many fans could have sat through Glavine’s rookie season (7-17) with out screaming for him to be sent to AAA?
I think Humber and Pelfrey will have an uphill battle if they try to establish themselves in NY
I was actually impressed by Pelfrey down the stretch… I think he’s in the rotation next year (barring a trade) and see him breaking out.
It’s hard to read Humber based on September– he was sat for a long time before he saw action. Give him a shot in the spring and if he earns it, let him pitch every 5th day. He’ll be in his 2nd year post-TJ surgery and that’s when pitchers truly “recover.”
I completely agree about Pelfrey. His last few starts really showed me something. His ball has so much bite and he throws hard!!! Didn’t realize he could get it up to mid 90s like that (faulty radar gun notwithstanding).
His main problem is that the ball moves too much (ugh, Zambrano). Once he learns command of his pitches, I think he will be a very good #2 starter.
If I recall, Glavine’s rookie season came in a rebuilding season.
My point exactly!
We are not rebuilding. Handing 1/5th of the starts to a guy who may be 10 games under .500, or worse yet, a revolving door at fifth starter, is something we need to avoid at all costs
I want bonafide, proven, young inning eaters.
Yeah man! Let’s trade a potential All Star RF for a mid to bottom of Rotation “innings eater”! God forbid we take one step back in ‘08 and two steps forward in ‘09, when Delgado’s contract runs out and 6 Cy Young candidates go to free agency!
Great point Joe. Thats how I feel about this year. We took one step back because we didnt want to become a win now, screw the future team. People were screaming to trade Gomez for Gagne. Where would that have gotten us, 2 months of Gagne (who was awful) and no more Gomez. Same people screaming to sign zito. Great, that would have only hamstrung us for 8 years. Its funny how greedy Mets fans got in the last 3 years. I am fine missing the playoffs for a year or two if it means building a dynasty that will compete for a WS every year.
6 Cy Young candidates go to free agency!
Yeah…..pretty sure that 6 of them aren’t gonna be available. Betcha at least 3 of them either get locked up or get traded to teams that will probably lock them up before they hit the market.
Of the 3 left, the Mets will not be guaranteed to get any of them- the big spenders will be throwing major $$$ around.
You can’t – and shouldn’t – count on the Mets getting any of them. It’s just cautions planning.
Its funny how greedy Mets fans got in the last 3 years. I am fine missing the playoffs for a year or two if it means building a dynasty that will compete for a WS every year
Wow, how greedy we are! 1 NLCS loss, 1 historic collapse….man, shame on us for daring to want a little more results than that! How much we’re demanding from “the best team in the NL”!
a retort…..Name one Atlanta fan who did sit through that season, or any season.
I think getting a decent righty closer would take a lot of pressure off wagner
Two things will net us low risk high reward 200 inning pitchers.
Sign Livan Hernandez. He has pitched for 199 innings or more for over 10 years.
Trade for Willis or Vasquez by using a package centered around Pelfrey and Heilman.
If Milledge is needed instead of 1 of the others then trade him and sign Hunter/Rowand/Jose Gullien.
What is this obsession with trading for Dontrelle Willis? The guy has been inconsistent his entire career. Coming off the disaster of a season he had in 2007, why on earth would you want to part with Pelfrey, Heilman AND Milledge?
And seriously, Aaron Rowand? The guy was labeled a bust until this season, in one of the best hitters’ parks in the NL. He comes to Shea, he will bust again to the tune of .270/.320/.400, which is essentially Shawn Green with better defense.
You want to know who Rowand is? Gary Mathews Jr. Seriously. Do want a player like that in right, or do you want Milledge for a fraction of the price?
Nuts.
Willis is a much greater risk than Pelfrey at this point. Pelfrey and Milz for Vasquez or Willis is clinically insane.
You don’t move either one except in a package for a proven All Star not a proven “innings-eater” or a pitcher on a tailspin.
Have you checked the list of N.L. Right-Fielders? Millidge has the potential of being first-to-third in win-shares at that position for his effective career. Trade him for an innings eater…a Willis?
or u could just use gomez. Vazquez has much more value then Willis these days. He is a proven innings eater and has had a couple solid years in a row now. Willis is trending the wrong way, and shouldnt have a ton of trade value. If milledge is move we should just give his at bats to Gomez, not sign an overated guy to huge money that will end up blocking Gomez, like Torii Hunter. 5 years 85 million for Torii Hunter and his .270/.325/.475 line? Umm no thanks. Aaron Rowand? Hell no. I feel bad for whoever signs him to the 6/86 he wants. Guillen might be okay on like a 2 year deal, but that 12 mil or so he will get annually can be better spent elsewhere, while Gomez gains major league experience.
Don’t drink the Gomez Kool-Aid in large doses. The kid has to demonstrate he can hit… even a little, before the FO can sanctify him as the next coming of Strawberry. Torii Hunter’s OBP is on par with Gomez’s SLG right now. That can’t be a good thing.
Hunter is not worth 17 mil a year, but to think Gomez would even come close to sniffing him anytime soon is ludicrous. Besides the Mets don’t need a CF.
God no. Joe Blanton is a #3 at best. He eats innings, doesnt walk a lot but doesn’t strike out a lot. He pitched around 240 innings and didn’t even strike out 150 guys. If you want that, sign Livan Hernandez. The only pitcher who should be traded for is Johan Santana. Anyone worse than him is a waste.
I’d try to trade fof both. We need to keep pressure off the bullpen, or we’ll be partying like it’s 2007!
Livan is a free agent so he can be signed. However, his innings are no better and is guaranteed to allow 3 baserunners every inning.
Blanton is a waste. Not only is he a #3, but he’s on the A’s. Which means if you want to get him, Billy Beane will try to rob everything you have in your farm system.
Livan is at least 32, if not more. His ERA over the past two seasons was close to 5. Why would I want him? Because I can keep my prospects?
Spend the talent to get better talent. Blanton is far better at this point in his career than Livan. How many innings will Livan pitch if Willie holds him to 100 pitches?
Yeah! Let’s take pressure off the bullpen at the expense of everything else!
We will have Sanchez back next year as well as bringing up Muniz. That’s Joe Smith (who had a good year despite his rookie wall, Feliciano, Heilman, possibly Duque, Muniz, Sanchez, and Wagner.
Our bullpen is situated to have a rebound year. One Livan Hernandez signing to eat innings and demanding more innings out of Maine, Ollie, and Pelfrey and getting one of the FA studs in ‘09 is enough.
Scratch that; I checked up on Livan, and I don’t see him being effective; everything else stand pat.
wow – quite an intense 87 seconds of research…
Sanchez? Yeah….counting on a guy who missed the last year and a half………not a smart move. Lets see if he can even make it through spring training this time before we pencil him in?
Ooooh boy, we’re gonna bring up Muniz! Unless he’s not ready, or gets hurt or needs more time. Again, you’re counting on this guy WAYYYYYYYYY too much at this point. Unrealistic.
As for Joe Smith, he’s no sure thing either.
You can’t stand pat with the pen. It killed us last season.
If you want a sure thing in the bullpen, you’ve got another thing coming. Heillman, Feliciano and Wagner are as close to sure things this side of Rivera. And you’re saying that neither Sanchez or Smith nor Muniz will be any good? What do you want. There’s a good enough chance that that bullpen will be as good as they come. They would have been pretty god this year, had Willie had any clue about managing them
Heillman, Feliciano and Wagner are as close to sure things this side of Rivera.
Well, there goes your credibility. ….
And you’re saying that neither Sanchez or Smith nor Muniz will be any good
No, I’m saying that you’re freaking pencilling these 3 in for being good for gods sake. You simply cannot count on an injury recovery and a rookie in your preseason calculations.
Gimme a break.
Sorry Trump. These three have been as consistent as you can expect from notoriously inconsistent bullpen pitchers. If you don’t want to accept that, feel free to find 10 more consistent relievers. I would imagine that last season takes Gag-nie out of the picture. (Although I would still take him, even despite his breakdown last year. That’s how inconsistent bullpen pitchers are.
I’m sorry, but Blanton would not be a waste. He had a 3.95 ERA in the AL and would likely do a bit better in the NL. Who cares if he doesn’t strike out a lot of guys? He throws strikes and gets the job done and doesn’t create situations with walks. And he’s economical so he won’t reach the 100 pitch mark until late in the game. Is he just as good as Santana? Of course not. Could he slot into the rotation and help this team? Yes. If we had Blanton last year, Brian Lawrence would never have stepped foot on a MLB pitching mound. That in itself would have been worth it.
The last two seasons the Mets have brougth up washed up talent. Lawrence, Park, Lima. I can’t stand that. If the Mets need “spot starts” this season they better call up a kid and see what happens. Kendrick got the call for the Phillies and that turned out to be huge part of there success.
Thank you.
Willie hates that. He’d rather go with a washed up veteran than a young kid because the veteran “has been there before”. Especially if it’s in the middle of a pennant race because “it’s not fair to do that to a kid”.
I’m curious if he’ll alter that stance a little, in light of two things: 1. the fact that his vets let him down this year, at least in the bullpen and 2. three of the four teams that made it to their divisions series had 1st and 2nd year players play key roles in beating (badly) veteran teams (Cleveland – Garko, Gutierrez, Cremona, Perez, Mastny, Jensen Lewis; Colorado – Tulowitzky, Spilborghs, Ubaldo Jimenez, Manny Corpas, Franklin Morales, Seth Smith; D-Backs – Drew, Mark Reynolds, Chris Young, Conor Jackson, Upton, Owings, Pena).
I don’t think he’ll ignore that…
I HATE the arguement that every pitcher that comes from the AL will be better in the NL. I want you to prove to me that the AL West batters are significantly better then the NL East batters. Not to mention Oakland is one of the best pitchers parks there are.
I guess we aren’t trading for any pitchers then if we don’t get Santana…
Anyone worse than the best pitcher in the league is a waste? Whatever you say dude
I agree. Blanton would be an improvement over the fifth starter garbage that we had this year. His numbers were good and omar should definitely go after him if he is available. If you have to give up milledge or pelfrey, gomez etc…so be it…….Enough with the lack of quality starting pitching! We can no longer live with El Duque’s breakdowns that cripple our chances for the post season…Omar must get some bonafide starters to get us into the 7th innings of games…
If we really are going to open the flood gates and trade away our minor league talent why get Blanton? I mean honestly he costs less but it isn’t as if the Mets don’t have the money. You all hated Lawrence right? 2002-2004 he had 3 200+ pitch seasons with ERAs of 3.69, 4.19 and 4.12 with similar low levels of strikeouts and walks. That was after his first major league season in ‘01 with only 114 innings pitched but an ERA of 3.45 and a much better K/9 ratio. Sounds like he is similar to Blanton now doesn’t he? An innings eater with minimal strikeouts that throws strikes. Yeah Blanton is better but they are similar pitchers and we all know how Lawrence worked for us, I say no to Blanton.
No, Blanton is only a good deal if the right prospects are dealt.
Regarding the Blanton/Lawrence comparison, Lawrence’s fastball this year was topping out at 84. His changeup was clocked at 81. Enough said right here. Blanton hits 91 and had a very good 12/6 curve which he can throw for strikes. The Brian Lawrence we saw this year was not the same pitcher he was in 2002-2004. There is no comparison.
You can’t really believe velocity is what matters can you? After seeing Glavine and Moyer duel it out into the 8th inning in their last head to head this season. And with what Pedro has done with an 84 mph fastball. That is an extremely ignorant statement and I remember Philly fans making comments just like that at a game I was at the day after the Glavine/Moyer matchup while Pedro was on the mound giving an amazing performance. And my whole point is that Lawrence wasn’t the same even though his stuff was, he never threw hard he just threw strikes and let his fielders deal with it. That is exactly what Blanton does so do you really want to risk that and trade away Milledge and other top prospects for that?
If you read the top of my post I believe I said trading for Blanton would only be good if the right prospects are included. That means not the top ones.
Yeah the top of your post makes no sense, what are you saying no to? And you completely avoided my questions.
Exactly. Mets fans have to accept that the trade prospects this year are dim and we would have to give up too much because our guys are unproven.
Trades involving prospects are inherently inefficient because we get to keep our prospects for nothing and the other team will have to give up something. Ergo, default mode should be keep your prospects unless something you can’t refuse comes along, like a Delgado for Jacobs.
I’d say a package of Mulvey, Collazo and Gomez would get the job done. Maybe Carp as a throw-in.
I wouldn’t trade Mulvey (who cold be making an impact sooner than you might think) and Gomez together for Blanton. Collazo is just a throw in.
Seriously. Mulvey is a prospect. I hope someone with arbitration eligible pitching thinks he’s the cat’s meow, because this team is beyond rebuilding.
How is Mulvey going to make an impact when Pelfrey and Humber are slotted ahead of him?
As opposed to Blanton, who’s already proven he can handle major league hitters? As we’ve seen time and time again, a pitcher who can deliver an ERA under 4 in the AL can be dominant in the NL. Add in the similarities of the Coliseum to Shea and Blanton’s familiarity with the Jacket, and it’s a no-brainer.
Also, Collazo might be a throw -in for us, but he’s the kind of reliever that Beane would go nuts over. Young, decent stuff, and can be thrown out there forever until his arbitration eligibility is gone.
Its funny how the marlins mgmt always seems to aquire a young pitcher here and a young pitcher there.
Blanton would be nice to have, but isn’t worth gutting the farm system for. There are lots of pitchers comparable to what you will get out of him, they just may not be available.
In 1980’s context, he would be Walt Terrell, not Ron Darling or Dwight Gooden.
Still, if they did get him for a reasonable package, it should help solidify the rotation. Just not at the expense of Pelfrey and Milledge or some such Beane fantasy package.
Jennings if he is healthy is intriquing. Much better at least than Lawrence!
The Pen, hopefully, could be much stronger, even just with the available pool of talent the Mets already have. At least potentially, if the wounded recover.
Of course, you don’t know what to expect out of guys that missed a full season, but the potential for putting together a decent pen exists in these candidates:
Wags
/Pedro F./
Sanchez/
padillo/
heilmann/
Kuntz/
Muniz/
Mota/
Schoe
/Pelfrey
/Humber
/El Duque
Sosa
And probably some more that I forgot, and not including any newcomers. IIRC, i think only Sanchez and Sosa are FAs this year?
I do not want a reclamation project (Jason Jennings)
I do not want a guy on the downside of his career (Livan)
I do not want to hold a guy out of a trade for a solid pitcher (Blanton) for a guy who could easily turn into Milton Bradley (Milledge).
I do not have the patience to nurse a rookie pitcher. The rest of our staff is not that good. If you have Smoltz, Glavine, & Maddux, then you can bring up a guy who has potential and let him work it out. We don’t have that kind of talent on the front end of the rotation. Ollie & Maine may be those guys in another year, but they aren’t yet. Pedro? I don’t know how many innings he can really pitch. I assume he’ll get his 180 innings, but that may be wishful thinking.
Get me two guys who can go 200 IP to add to Maine, Ollie, & Pedro, and we’ll make a run at it.
“I do not have the patience to nurse a rookie pitcher”
Then it would be a good idea to acquire some patience, since it usually pays off.
Joe,
I just don’t want to throw 2008 away. Having a young pitcher struggle on a team built to win now just isn’t going to work.
Pedro is a question mark.
Ollie & Maine need to hone their games.
We can’t trust the back end of the rotation to ElDuque and a rookie.
Then Peaches, no offense, you’re going to be out of luck. How many pitchers come up and dominate? Very few. How many top tier pitchers are acquired these days? Also very few and you pay beyond premium for them in either dollars or prospects.
Think about it:
Blanton- stunk in 2006.
Haren- acquired for Mark Mulder.
Santana- Twins got lucky, rule 5 pick.
Bedard- Struggled in 2004, 2005
Carpenter- Was Gil Meche the first half of his career
Peavy- Came up and pitched well, but did struggle in 2006
Chris Young- Terrible in 2004/2005
Jeff Francis- Struggled early on with Rockies
D-Train- Good one year, bad the next
Etc… etc…
The bottom line is, you aren’t getting Johan without giving up far too much. You won’t get a premium young pitcher who is under control unless you are giving up an established great. So where does that leave you?
Reclamation projects and kids. I’d rather the kids, unless the reclamation project is cheap. (I.E. not Dontrelle Willis , Daniel Cabrera or Jason Jennings)
After days of thinking about it, here is how I would (realistically) construct the 2008 NY Mets:
1. Sign Francisco Cordero with closers money, and the promise of becoming the closer in ‘09 and beyond.
2. Deal Carlos Gomez & Phil Humber to Oakland for Joe Blanton. Add Mulvey or Carp if needed.
3. Bring in a lefthanded hitting outfielder that could rotate with Alou & Milledge. Honestly, I can’t even tell you who, but we’ll leave that one up to Minaya :)
c Paul LoDuca
1b Carlos Delgado
2b Ruben Gotay / Damion Easley Platoon
ss Jose Reyes
3b David Wright
lf Moises Alou
cf Carlos Beltran
rf Lastings Milledge
p Pedro, Maine, Blanton, Perez, Pelfrey
rp (choose 7 from) El Duque, Sosa, Smith, Feliciano, Schoenweis, Mota, Padilla, Duaner, Heilman, F Cordero, Wagner
Bench: Castro, Marlon Anderson, Damion Easley, Endy Chavez, left handed of bat
You’d have Duque & Sosa to slot into the rotation in a pinch, but would obviously have to bring in another arm for the minors. If Mulvey isn’t dealt you have him and Vargas as well.
With Green, Glavine, Castillo coming off the books, the team’s salary should stay roughly the same. This team should compete for a playoff spot in ‘08.
Then in ‘09:
Delgado, LoDuca, Pedro, Alou, El Duque, and Mota come off the books, while some combination of Peavey, Johan, Teixeria, Penny, Sheets, Orlando Hudson, Johnny Estrada, Varitek, Dunn, Juan Rivera, Garland, Sabathia, Fuentes, Marte, Francisco Rodriguez, Joe Nathan, etc. could hit the open market in time for Citi Field.
shannon stweart and jeff davanon could be that OF that you said could roate with alou/milledge. i dont agree with having gotay and easley in a platoon. mets should go after orlando hudson for 2nd, if that can’t come to fruition then sign back castillo. Joe Blanton is ballin, he’s a true horse and can save the pen, his era could lower a whole run in the NL and his wins could increase by 3 or 6
Don’t hold out too much hope for a big free-agent pick-up next year either, jscand. With revenue-sharing and lucrative national baseball contracts, even small-market teams are getting better at holding onto their talent. I’d be very surpised if more than a third of those you list make it to the open market next year.
Time will tell.
“2. Deal Carlos Gomez & Phil Humber to Oakland for Joe Blanton. Add Mulvey or Carp if needed.”
That is where you completely lost all credibility and I scrolled past your entire post.
i would love to get blanton he would fit into our rotation perfectly he’s a solid #2 or 3 starter. Maybe he can hustle beane into believing into ben johnson and jason vargas like omar got hustled last year.
REMEMBER WHEN OMAR WAS LIKE “HE COULD BE OUR NEW ENDY” wat a toooool that omar is
stopp talking about yourself krusty.
i will screw off ur head and SH#T DOWN UR NECK!
I have not been secretive about my feelings for a pitcher like Blanton. I think there’s a cruel cold reality that Mets fans have to own up to – our prospects aren’t that good and the best pitcher they may be able to net us a solid, mid-rotation innings eater like Blanton. To get that “next step” of pitchers, you’re going to have trade established young, talent, the Maine’s, Perez’s, Reyes’ and Wright’s of the world, and I just don’t think the FO will trade one of those guys.
With that said, I don’t think there’s any question that Blanton will be a better pitcher next year than Pelfrey/Humber, and likely the year after, and the year after that. His K-rates are improving, and his walk ratios are great. He’s been able to increase his workload at a good rate, and he has no injury history. He’s 26 and would be under our control for a few more years and is a perfect established player to build into our core of young pitchers. If there is a legit opportunity to get this guy, we shouldn’t stick our nose up because we think we have the goods to land Santana, or because we think Pelfrey or Humber are going to burst out of the gate next season new and improved. And as we learned with Maine and Perez last year, even if Pelfrey/Humber have a good start, young pitchers tend to run out of gas. Blanton is a guy who’s proven he can do it over the full season.
Blanton and Maine are similar to me. Both are 2 very good #2’s but will NEVER EVER EVER NEVER EVER BE AN ACE ever! But pedro could be, and same goes for Ollie! I LOVE POOOPING IN YM PANTZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
You can’t be serious. Maine and Blanton the same? Besides the fact that Maine has more strikeouts he just has much better stuff and has the ability to completely shut down a lineup. Blanton, not so much. Pedro already is a HOF you moron so if he isn’t an ace who the hell is? And Perez more an ace than Maine? Are you joking? Perez is good and I like him but Maine is much more consistent than Perez and fans like him more because of that. Ace does not only mean the best pitcher, it means someone who goes out and gives it their all every time and can lead the staff and team. And honestly… you got your opinion across about Blanton but you came up with no solution as to whether to get him or not which is more important than harping on about your gastrointestinal issues.
I’ve sat at this computer reading all these replies on Blanton and I am thinking to myself…what am I missing here. The guy defines mediocre pretty well. 14 – 10, 4.00 era, stikeouts less that .75 per inning. Has a pretty good whip but not amazing by any stretch. I do like his innings pitched but I don’t know how that translates. I mean Maine could pitch longer in most games just he gets pulled because Willie has a pen and uses it at the first hints of trouble after the 5th inning.
We may not have the goods to attract better pitchers in a deal with the current level of prospects. But we should try to work it anyway. I’d rather have Livan or Jason Jennings for money and keep the promise of what humber and pelfrey could be with more development than trade our best pitching prospects and other talented outfield prospects for a solid but largely unspectacular pitcher like Blanton.
I see 2008 as a year of doing nothing much different. While there were problems in the pen and starting pitching and possibly with a bit of the lazy attitude regarding winning, (”bored”), I think this team was on its way to the playoffs and 93 wins with no Pedro and a ton of injuries during the year and all that bad attitude and crappy pen etc.
Why can’t they finish better next year with essentially the same group?
They can and they likely should.
Omar should explore the big moves and if they don’ hit, nibble some more and wait for the free agents of 2009 to come. Texiera and Webb and Santana would be nice for just money right?
I’m not a huge sabr guy, but I absolutely love the fact that Blanton doesn’t walk a lot of guys, which is a pitcher we desperately need right now to preserve the bullpen, and keep the players in the field sharp. A vast majority of Blanton’s base runners come from hits, but I would say our up-the-middle D of Reyes-Castillo and Beltran would probably help him. He doesn’t strike a ton of guys out, but 6 per 9 IP is certainly serviceable. This isn’t Steve Trachsel or Tom Glavine here. Then there are the noted cases of swiching leagues, blah, blah, blah that will improve his #s. Oakland, despite the vast foul territority, is a hitters park by the way.
The final point is, you need to look at what you got and say, is Blanton better than what we have? Could Pelfrey or Humber one day in the future be better than Blanton? Maybe … but there’s no guarantee of that. In fact, I would be shocked to find a scout out there who would say that. I think Blanton would be a very good addition to this team, as would a Jason Jennings on the FA front. I would love to have a rotation next year of Pedro, Blanton, Maine, Perez and Jennings with El Duque, Sosa and Mulvey waiting in the wings for spot starts, rather than a rotation of Pedro, Maine, Perez, Duque and fifth starter du jour…
” A vast majority of Blanton’s base runners come from hits, but I would say our up-the-middle D of Reyes-Castillo and Beltran would probably help him.”
Yeas, because Crosby/Ellis/ Kotsay arent as good as it gets defensively or anything like that.
“Oakland, despite the vast foul territority, is a hitters park by the way.”
Lol.
Blantons best attributes as you stated are his low walks and his quantity of innings. Both great things to have in a pitcher. I do not look at it solely as….
Blanton will likely be better than Pelfrey or Humber in 2008. I’ll give you that. He should be. They are both essentially rookies and Blanton will be in his 4th year in the bigs. If I were GM, I’d ask myself is it more likely that Blanton’s career is destined to continue to improve or is it more likely that our prospects career would improve. Then I’d ask is it more likely that Pelf or Humber improve to a point that is greater than Blanton is now. If I thought the answer to that is maybe, which I do, then I would likely not deal them for one another.
We all want to win and win now. But I can’t see giving up another potential ace level pitcher in Pelfrey (like Kazmir) for another pitcher who is not an ace or real close. I’d consider doing Humber in the deal as I believe his ceiling is considered to be a little lower than ace level.
Package Pelfrey for big fish only. Otherwise, these pitching prospects are more valuable to us in terms of what they could become.
Pelfrey and Humber could very well be considerably better than Blanton as early as ‘09. No friggen way.
thank you gowrightgo, joe blanton give me a break. if he was a FA id say look into it but this guy is not worth any of our known prospects (gomez, millz, pelf, humber, etc). granted he throws alot of innings and we DEFINITELY need that but hes simply not worth what we’d have to give up
I WONDER IF IAN SNELL OR MATT CAIN COULD BE AVAILABLE?
I see 2008 as a year of doing nothing much different
I guess that includes their position in the standings….
The idea of standing pat enrages and depresses me at the same time. Does anyone here REALLY want to see the Mets trot out the same crew as last season???
I understand wanting to shake it up after this season. I do. I actually would prefer to do something also so I could hang on some hope that the finish to the year will be better than 2007. But the reality is somewhat different when looked at objectively. First, 88 wins is nothing to sneeze at . Did not win us the division but we only dropped it by 1 game and it took a historic collapse to do it. Plus, we tanked the last 17 games of the year. If we played at the season winning percentage level we were at before the last 17 games (.6 percent or something), than we should have gotten 10 wins in our last 17 not 5. That is 93 wins. Add in the fact that we will have Pedro in 2008 for the year and likely won’t have to deal with a time where for 1/3rd of the season we are subbing 2 of our 3 outfielders and shifting second basemen….I’d say it aint all broke. We did have better than average starting pitching for the season and the 3rd best offense in the NL even with all the down years from Reyes, Delgado, Green, LoDuca and company.
We do need more starting pitching and better relief help but I’d bring back most of the team and take our chances with bigger improvements for 2009 when the free agent class will be much better and hence the cost in prospects will be much lower to improve the club.
Go, gowrightgo,…go!
You mean to tell me that OUR A+ PROSPECTS are not the 2nd coming of Sandy Koufax or Willie Mays? Get out.
Trade them while the pot is hot. I woud only hold onto Milledge. The kid can hit. Gomez can only “sniff” what Milledge did last year in a year or two from now. I have more confidence in Mulvey at this point than Pelfrey and that is not saying much at all. Humber, Gomez, and Gotay would be lucky to net a Blanton I think.
I think Joe Blanton would make for a nice addition to this ball club. He would easily compliment the other young guys we have, like Oliver Perez and John Maine, while possessing a Glavine-esque style to himself. Blanton is not over-powering by any means, as he is more of a soft tosser, but I feel he has upside that reminds me quite a bit to Barry Zito or Mark Buehrle type talents in pitching. With Blanton coming over to the National League, it should only result to his benefit. I could probably see his earned run average jump down a run, while continuing to provide deeply pitched games; something that this team is in desperate need of. I think if the proper chips are in order to complete this trade, I say it would be a deal worth making. The difference-maker in a trade for Blanton being a good or bad trade, though, is contingent upon the players we would be required to part with. If things fall into place reasonably, similar to the way Atlanta received Hudson, this could be very welcomed move by Omar.
Good thing youre not the GM stache. How people still think Milledge has higher upside then gomez is beyond me. I cant fathom how some people are so stupid. Gomez may bust sure, but he has some absurd talent. And he has a body that Milledge doesnt that should translate to lots of power. But lets just get rid of him because he only hit .,240 as a 21 year older. We can trade him for an absolute scrub in Joe Blanton. Good job.
I am so thankful you managed to sTROLL over here from mlbtraderumors.
Just to let you know most of us come here to discuss baseball, not read your comments about how stupid others are that disagree with you.
I take proven over potential anyday. Many prospects fail every year,while some on this board refuse to believe that. YOU HAVE TO GIVE UP SOMETHING TO GET SOMETHING.
In this market, go find me a league average starter or better that is still in arbitration with a team just clammoring to get rid of him.
Gomez is fast and plays good defense. The other 4 tools are not so great if the bat is lacking. Remember, you can’t steal first.
If I had Blanton and you offered me Humber, Gomez, and Gotay, I would gift wrap him for you and suffocate from laughing so hard. A .300 hitting 2B 24yrs old, a future #2 starter, and a potential 40/40 outfileder for a fat #3 starter who is at the peak of his career.
Just let that sink in for a second.
So many Mets fans are just Yankee wannabes and it is bewildering. We have the salary! We’re too good to rebuild! Win now every year. Where has that gotten us so far?
Hey! It’s 2004. Reyes will never amount to anything. a leadoff hitter with a sub .300 OBP? Trade him while he’s hot! We might even get Moulder for him. Remember, pitching wins championships! Burble burble
Youre a moron, to put it nicely. Trade Wright? For anybody? Let alone a pitcher. Wow. Gomez is projected as a 30/50 guy in the future. Martinez has been called the best 17 year old hitter (at the time) that they had ever seen by certain scouts. But youre right,lets trade them for Joe Blanton, aka the younger, fatter, version of Steve Trachsel. I would rather give Pelfrey the ball 30 times instead of Blanton. Luckily Omar isnt stupid like some of you.
Luckily Omar isnt stupid like some of you.
No, Omar made enough stupid moves last offseason all by himself….
Please do not trade milledge for someone who will not start in game 1 or 2 of a postseason series, bottom line thats it i dont care if the guy can throw 300 innings, if hes not a stud we dont need him, we can go sign a 3-5 starter we dont need to trade our best prospect for one. no thanks on trading milledge for blanton or some experiment like cabrera.
Why is it hard to understand that our prospects are not going to net us a stud? Teams like Arizona, Colorado, LA, LAAA, the Yankees, Boston all have significantly better prospects than we do. A package centered around Hughes or Joba would instnatly trump anything we have to offer.
Maybe Joe Blanton isn’t your typical #2, but I would rather have him start game 4 of the postseason, than Mike Pelfrey, Jason Jennings or Livan Hernadez.
im not saying we can get a stud, im just saying dont trade milledge for joe blanton, i personally think our prospects are laughable compared to most teams but milledge is the exception i think hes going to be at least an above average RFer (290 25 hrs), and yea pitchers are important but you do need 7 guys behind them and 8 guys to hit for them too.
First of all the mets need to invest more money on players in the draft.I personally would draft more pitching and worry about hitting via trades.
Arizona doesnt have the money for Santana, neither does Colorado, neither do the Angels. The dogers could certainly land Santana if they wanted. As could the Yankees, but they wont trade Hughes or Joba.
The Redsox could package Ellsbury, Lester/Buchholz, Lowrie or something for Santana, but there is no gauruntee they will. You are assuming that all of these teams either A) have the money to lock Santana up forever or B) are willing to trade their high ceiling talent for him. This is so absurd.
Joe Blanton has a career ERA of 4.15 and a whip of 1.31.
It is solid, but are you really saying you think Humber/Pelfrey/Mulvey will never post that line? And you want to give all of them up for him? Blanton has no upside, heisnt going to get better. Probably will get worse, because he is fat and out of shape. If you think they can eventually post those lines but are to impatient to wait it out, so you would rather go for the gold now, then that is also an awful attitude and will screw you in the long run.
I understand your position, and I agree that Milledge shouldn’t be traded unless it is for a power pitching, front-line ace. However, there are other prospects in the organization that the Mets may use to make these secondary type deals happen, in such cases for players of Joe Blanton’s or even Daniel Cabrera’s caliber. Milledge is not the make or break part of each and every possible deal being spoke of on the table. I am fairly certain some sort of middle ground has be in order to facilitate these types of trades.
Thank you for taking the words out my mouth.
Honestly, if a deal centered around Pelfrey/Gomez can net us a Joe Blanton type, I would think very hard about it. Milledge may be the exception, but again if the Mets make a play for a Rowand/Jones/Fukudome, Milledge may become very expendable.
I wouldnt trade Gomez by himself for 2 Joe Blantons. I literally wouldnt I am not exaggerating. I would rather just go sign Livan and Jennings.
Rowand…..career .286/.344/.462 playing 6 years in 2 of the best hitters parks there are. Wanting approx. 6/86. Lol that is laughable.
No, but you want to pay Torii Hunter for good defense and no bat. Wonderful.
.271/.324/.469 career line in another hitters paradise. He wants around 5/90. We have a guy named Beltran who plays a decent centerfield and even in a down year will post an .850 OPS in his sleep, a .950 OPS on a good year. Something Torii Hunter has done once in his career, and has never came close to again. You should just go root for the Yankees. You seem to want to trade every young prospect we have for marginal veteran talent and sign high priced, overated old players to horrible contracts. They seem like the team for you.
Now someone wants Rowand and Andruw Jones.
Good Grief. Someone else took this one, and I’m happy about that, cause it’s really laborous to point out the 100 reasons why Millz would be 10 times the investment that Rowand or Jones are.
We have 4 top-noch outfield prospects. Milledge has a 90% chance of panning out and probably a 65%+ shot at being a regular (though probably not perreniak) All-Star.
I give the rest 70% of panning out.
When you have that situation, you keep your prospects because at least one and probably 3 will be viable and that is when you trade the excess talent. If F-Mart is gangbusters in AAA next year, you could get a Blanton for him straight up.
All I said was, there are many, many outfield commodities out there. You’re idea that Milledge is this once in a lifetime player is based on nothing but pure conjecture. At the end of the day, I would prefer Milledge over Jones or Rowand, but if Milledge could net us major pitching help, I think trading him and signing one of the aforementioned guys would be better for our team in the long run. But if Milledge isn’t going to get you pitching, then you don’t trade him.
Strawman arguments man.
Add Joe Blanton to the 2007 team and you make the playoffs. No more Pelfrey/Lawrence/Humber/Vargas/Sosa garbage.
Not saying deal Milledge for him (I want to keep Milledge if possible) but people ragging on Blanton and he’s a valuable property.
allow me to expand on what i said previously, i dont think blanton is bad in fact he would helpt this team and if he was in the rotation all yr in 07 yea we’re in the playoffs. all i said was dont trade milledge for blanton and above that i mentioned how he isnt worth what we’d have to give up, if we could do pelfrey and gomez for him great but this is billy beane it would def cost more than that.
So let me get this straight. You people (yes you, the same ones who were down on Milledge and wanted him gone a year ago), now wont trade him straight up for Blanton, but you will trade Gomez and Pelfrey for Blanton. I dont get how some of you are so incredibly ignorant. Must have something to do with the parenting. Or mtv. Who knows. Gomez SHOULD be the most untouchable prospect in our system. Milledge was solid this year, but cannot hit a slider to save his life. He also struggled in the field.
I hate to compare the 2, but Milledge seems like a better hitter right now, but Gomez could be Alex Rios or Hanley Ramirez. He is 6′5, and he will continue to fill out over the next 3 or 4 years. Remember, Hanley is 24 now, if had waited until Gomez was 23 to give him a shot in the majors, we might have gotten an entirely different perception of him. I dont know, I think Gomez has as much if not more upside then Reyes. Not to mention he (gomez) is the fastest player in the NL. You dont give up on him now unless it is involved in Santana talks (which I would still be wary of). For a scrub like Blanton, a fat out of shape one nonetheless, Omar hangs up if Beane asks about gomez for Blanton.
Blanton for Milledge or gomez, straight up? No Brainer in my book. You win with pitching.
And then what? Milledge, I predict to be a top 3 right-fielder next year if he gets any playing time? How are you going to replace that?
Blanton isn’t an All-Star; he is an innings-eater, and they come a dime-a-dozen. You can get a Blanton as a free agent for $7M/yr.
Milledge is a top RF prospect. Pelfrey has a good shot at being better than Blanton next year; forget about the future.
There are no good trades available in ‘08, unless Omar really fleeces somebody. Go with your guys. Some will pan out; I guarantee it.
What are any of these projections based on? The only one of these three we’ve even had a legit look at is Milledge. The only thing I’ve heard about Pelfrey since he’s signed into our system is how he’s been “Boras-ized” and is progressing at a slower pace than a lot of scouts predicted. So this idea he’s going to be better than a 26 y/o who has already posted an ERA under 4 (twice) in a tougher hitters league while pitching more than 200 innings, is based on nothing but your opinion and your allegiance to our prospects.
Allegiance to our prospects…well said. Not easy to find 200 IP with an ERA under 4.
Go to a stat page, and look at Roy Halladay 2007 and Blanton 2007 numbers. They look eerily similar.
So who doesn’t want Roy Halladay on the team?
Look; nobody knows anything really.
But we have to look at probabilities here.
Milledge, Gomez, F-Mart, Maldonado, Pelfrey, Humber, Mulvey, Muniz. Who thinks that they will all bust? The one guy who got a real shot in the majors is Milledge and he did very well. (Pelfrey got a shot, and initially did rather poorly–during the Met’s losing binge in June/July when they couldn’t put up any runs–but he turned a corner in that Braves game.)
What is the greater probability? That they will all bust or that Blanton tanks or gets hurt?
Will Blanton turn into the next Halladay? I doubt it. They were similar in ‘07, but did they have the same stuff/upside?
The Halladay argument actually reinforces the case for Pelfrey/Humber. Here is a young pitcher with great potential and mediocre performance who became an All-Star.
Will having Blanton instead of Gomez make us better team and a playoff team in ‘08? Probably. Will it make us into a bigtime WS contender in ‘08? No. This team is nowhere near as good as Omar’s propaganda machine would have us believe.
If we think ‘09 and ‘10, we will be serious perennial contenders, possibly as early as ‘09. If we make hasty trades for mediocre pitchers, we will have an outside shot in ‘08 and may weaken ourselves in the long term. What do you prefer?
You only get value for prospects when you trade them when their values are high.
I know Blanton and Halladay are different pitchers, but they put up similar results. There is no reason why Blanton can’t improve and he is at least proven. I would not characterize Blanton has mediocre or league average. I believe he is above average but clearly not a 1 or 2 pitcher. He would fill a need for innings that the Mets desperately need.
In regards to the playoffs, you have to be in it to win it. This trade would not involve trading all of those players, just 2 of them probably. You are not mortgaging your future, you are using what you have to get what you need. Blanton would be in the rotation at least a few more years. Soft tossers typically get hurt less than hard throwers. I would be more concerned about Pelfrey’s teeth falling out than Blanton’s arm falling off.
The NL is a weak league, so I am not sure why you believe the Mets need to improve dramatically to beat other teams. Every team has holes.
I just prefer that they have a shot at dominating the league by ‘09 or ‘10 than be mere contenders in ‘08 and hurting their longer term prospects.
Pelfrey is more Halladay than Blanton. Hard sinking fastball. He’s got a shot at being Halladay and a very good shot at being considerably better than Blanton.
I just don’t think Blanton is good enough to give up anything. Like I said, innings eaters are a dime a dozen; the are worth far less than potential All-Star OFs. So why get the short end of the stick for marginal short-term gain. That’s the clincher IMO, marginal short-term gain. So what if we don’t get him in ‘08. I don’t see us winning a title in ‘08 even with him.
Just my opinion
Your argument is fair. I just think you have to balance youth and trading youth for established. Blanton I believe would help the team for at least the next 2-3 years. Pelfrey has the fastball, but needs the secondary pitches. Innings eaters are guys like Silva with a 5 ERA. Guys with ERAs under 4 that throw 200 IP every year are not a a dime a dozen however IMO. I am not one of the posters spouting off trading our entire farm system for Santana and Nathan. Beltran is locked up LT, and the true value for Milledge and Gomez is as CF. Gomez is good in the OF and if he can develop a bat he could slide in nicely on many teams that need a CF. The Mets, however, do not need a CF, which is the same argument I make when I hear the Hunter, Rowand, Andruw Jones arguments. Similar production from different positions could net more or less money. Soriano has more value as a 2b than an OF, even though he stinks defensively because not many 2b could hit the way he does.
Gomez does not strike me as a corner OF type on the Mets.
Fair enough. I must admit that I am undervaluing Blanton. He seems to have up and down years. 4.11 career E.R.A. .555 winning % More hits than IP…It’s OK, above innings eating.
I just think Gomez has more potential than that, and that he and someone else could bring back more. But I will admit to being biased about keeping prospects.
Remember that even Dan Haren put up Pelfrey-like #s his first year too…3-7 with a 5+ E.R.A. Mets fans are being impatient. And Dan Haren is a .500 pitcher who basically had a John Maine year. Mets fans seem to undervalue their own talent and overvalue that of others. This is a fairly good team as it is, gentlemen.
hey nrmax88, are you dating Gomez or what??? or maybe this is Omar in disguise! get a clue and realize Gomez hasnt shown anything to suggest that he will be a superstar! this team cant wait around for every f*****g prospect to develop! there is no way all three outfield prospects become stars or everyday starters! i say ask Beane what he wants for Haren(shouldve got him last year) and start from there! Blanton is a solid #3 starter who we probably could get for Gomez/Pelfrey or something like that. Half of our team wont be around after 08/09 , so we have to look at winning now plus having a few young core guys to build around! Jesus, some of you guys think every Met prospect is a superstar and should be kept at all costs! Most prospects are developed to be used in trades for established players.
I don’t think I ever uttered a nasty word about Millege, though I admit, I did want to trade him for Manny in ‘05…
I don’t recognize you or your handle, so I don’t know how you know well enough to make broad sweeping statements, but let me say, I hope your projection for all our prospects is true. Sadly, from what I’ve read, your basing this on some kind of hallow opinion. Meanwhile we’ve seen what Joe Blanton can do, and while he may not be Johan Santana, Blanton would instantly be the second best pitcher on our staff next year behind Pedro.
And given the record breaking money pouring into baseball this year, I don’t get where you say any team other than the Devil Rays, Royals or Pirates doesn’t have the means to trade for, and attempt to resign Santana. The retention of young star pitching is at an all-time high and counting on these guys hitting the open market is fool-hardy.
I will admit, the one thing you “got me” on is my statement about McAfee Stadium’s park factors. I was ill-informed and looked at park factor #s from 2002 when they were over 100, but yes, historically, it’s a pitcher’s park. Still think it’s asinine to say a 26 y/o pitcher has reached his peak and trading for a piece like that would be “sacrificing the future.”
I’ve got to say I like Milledge but I’d still trade him for Manny if we could. No worries about Alou that way in left and we could either let what have play in right or sign one of the 4 of Rowand, Hunter, Jones or Fukudome or explore other trades for one year since the ‘09 market seems to be a fantasy draft in the making.
Costanza…you’ve got to be one of the most reasonable, persuasive and polite bloggers here. I came into the conversation yesterday with a bit of perspective on Blanton (thinking he is pretty average) and am leaving this conversation today thinking that trading for Blanton would not be a bad thing and that he could be part of the foundation for our rotation that nets us more wins in 08 and beyond.
The crux of the real argument is what goes in a deal for him. What is considered doable or equal fair value. Dealing with Beane will not be easy. His price on the trade front mimicks the value Boras tends to create for his clients on the open market. He seems to extract a big price and does not settle for less. He is willing to wait you out or simply say no. Or even wait for the draft pick compensation if the talent leaves via free agency.
If we could do a deal for Blanton that included Humber rather than Pelfrey and something else other than our three Of prospects…I’d do it. But if the deal were Gomez and Humber or Pelfrey and Gomez (insert FMart or Milledge here also), I’d pass.
But good for you for stringing the arguments along persuasively enough that i can see the logic in trading for him.
As an aside, if a young controllable pitcher like Blanton can net a teams prized pitching prospect and prized outfield prospect, we should consider putting Maine on the market next year (after 2008 season). He will likely have 2.5 solid seasons under his belt and will pitch to a below 4 era with good strikeouts to innings pitched and a .600 winning percentage. Sounds alot like Blanton. If we can get a ton for him and replace his production with a couple of free agent studs (say Garland Peavey or Santana), It would be interesting to consider
How could anyone compare Daniel Cabrera with Joe Blanton? Blanton slots in with Ollie & Maine. Cabrera would have been in N.O.
Joe Blanton and Daniel Cabrera are two completely different pitchers. Blanton is a young soft tosser with upside, who to his credit has established himself a track record of being a workhorse. He would be in the type of pitchers of the Mark Buehrle’s and Barry Zito’s of the world. Daniel Cabrera, however, has all the attributes that would one day resemble the power pitcher, front-line ace that we are all in search of. A pitcher of Cabrera’s potential, caliber, and qualities does not come around often, and is very much reminiscent of Oliver Perez in a sense. With today’s market for pitching as it is, fans are going to need to have an open-mind when it comes to possible options to consider. Although he may not the defining solution to our rotation at this time, Cabrera is a pitcher worth taking a chance on as a secondary move.
Hey guys its keith Hernandez! just stoppin in to say high, woops i mean Hi. any1 love crocs? I do, that reminds me of June 12th 1988, i had a 4 hit 3 rbi game and i got to the hotel room(with lollipop in had might I add) and there was a crocadile! THANK YOU THANK YOU ALL ILL BE HERE ALL WEEK CHOW! SAYANORA! BEGONE!
it is Ciao.
Lastings Milledge is my President
If the Mets can get Joe Blanton, I would go to war with the staff we would have.
Martinez
Blanton
Perez
Maine
Now thats a flat out nasty group of pitchers. Not knowing their second base situation I would offer 2 prospects of this group:
GOTAY
GOMEZ/ MILLEDGE(actually think milledge is our next superstar to go with the other two we brought up!! Of course i want to keep him)
HEILMAN (Not a starting pitcher, You cant tell me other than that one game where he had a one hitter that he can win consistantly. Other teams want him as a starter. THey can have him.
PELFREY/HUMBER
CARP
ANDERSON HERNANDEZ
MULVEY, 2 OF THE TOP THREE OUTFIELD PROSPECTS WE HAVE, DEIOLIS GUERRA ARE UNTOUCHABLE….WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD BE A GOOD PACKAGE. I SAY GOTAY AND PELFREY! WHAT SAY YOU!!!!!
I’d say no way. Gotay would be fine since he is not supposed to be a starter for us anyway and although his short season was a good one, he may never replicate it. I would not trade a potential Ace, yes Pelfrey is still a potential ace, for a guy who is a potential #2 with improvement but right now would be the 4th best starter in your lineup of Pedro, Maine, Perez and Blanton. I’d consider giving them Humber for Blanton because they project Humber at below ace level ….where Blanton is now.
what about gotay, heilman and humber? Blanton is the only guy out of that group that has proven he can throw 200 innings. With out lineup he can go 16 and 8 this season!!!
Yep. I just reread my post and noticed I did not group it all together. I meant to.
That is a deal I could live with. Heilman Humber and Gotay for Blanton. Write it up!
Do that and you need to resign Castillo right now and sign Damion Easley to be a potential backup at that spot. You may also need to pry a big time reliever away in a trade in another deal like a Joe Nathan. Or you could simply pay the most money to Franky Cordero and have him be the 8th inning guy. Or take a flyer on Gagne who will have trouble getting a big deal now that he has totally imploded for the Sox. This replaces heilmans productivity and potentially you could have
starting rotation of Pedro, Maine, Perez, Blanton, Jason Jennings (signed as a FA) and a
Relief corp of: Wagner, Feliciano, Joe Smith, Joe Nathan, Sosa, Duque and possibly Duaner Sanchez or Ambiorix Burgos
If we’re trading those three (a topline reliever/backend starter [Heilman], high-potential 2B and potential replacement for Huston Street [Humber]), I’d try to get Haren or Harden