Comments on: Minors: Trade Bait for a Pitcher http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/ Latest Mets News, Links, Rumors and Opinion Fri, 04 Feb 2011 21:22:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Danny1986 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29456 Danny1986 Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:21:36 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29456 This is not about winning or losing arguments. It's a forum for expressing views or opinions. If you want to be competitve on a blog, that's your source of pride. I'd rather lace up the spikes and do so out on the playing field. B/C that is where the results are less subjective. OBP is an essential measurement of plate discipline and control of the strike zone. 20/20 players typically already have that, or at least pretty damn close to the .380 Adam Dunn level. So yes, I would take a young athletic 20/20 player over the one-dimensional 40/0 Adam Dunn everytime. Dunn, who does not produce well with RISP and plays most of his games in the bandboxes of the NL Central, will not be the same power hitter at Shea. He is also often criticized for taking too many walks, not swinging the bat enough, and not producing. His low RBI in is not to be blamed on the players hitting ahead of him. In fact, he has one of the lowest contact ratios in the entire Majors. When he swings, he more often misses. How would you want that garbage on this team? And if nuts is taking a 20/20 player over a 40/0 player, than I guess you should've put me in a straight jacket for preferring David Wright over Dunn prior to last year. Tell you what...you bring your 8 Adam Dunn's to the ball field, I'll bring my 8 David WrightsGrady Sizemores....and let's just have a good old time. This is not about winning or losing arguments. It’s a forum for expressing views or opinions. If you want to be competitve on a blog, that’s your source of pride. I’d rather lace up the spikes and do so out on the playing field. B/C that is where the results are less subjective.

OBP is an essential measurement of plate discipline and control of the strike zone. 20/20 players typically already have that, or at least pretty damn close to the .380 Adam Dunn level. So yes, I would take a young athletic 20/20 player over the one-dimensional 40/0 Adam Dunn everytime.

Dunn, who does not produce well with RISP and plays most of his games in the bandboxes of the NL Central, will not be the same power hitter at Shea. He is also often criticized for taking too many walks, not swinging the bat enough, and not producing. His low RBI in is not to be blamed on the players hitting ahead of him. In fact, he has one of the lowest contact ratios in the entire Majors. When he swings, he more often misses. How would you want that garbage on this team?

And if nuts is taking a 20/20 player over a 40/0 player, than I guess you should’ve put me in a straight jacket for preferring David Wright over Dunn prior to last year. Tell you what…you bring your 8 Adam Dunn’s to the ball field, I’ll bring my 8 David WrightsGrady Sizemores….and let’s just have a good old time.

]]> By: kendychavez http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29416 kendychavez Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:30:52 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29416 you lose arguments when you start to treat OBP as just another tool a guy can have. it is, without a doubt, the single most important stat for determing a players offensive value. Twenty stolen bases is meaningless, especially when you're not considering success rate. a guy like dunn makes up for not stealing bases in his slugging. you are nuts if you'd take 20/20 over 40/0. you lose arguments when you start to treat OBP as just another tool a guy can have. it is, without a doubt, the single most important stat for determing a players offensive value.
Twenty stolen bases is meaningless, especially when you’re not considering success rate. a guy like dunn makes up for not stealing bases in his slugging. you are nuts if you’d take 20/20 over 40/0.

]]> By: Danny1986 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29328 Danny1986 Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:23:34 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29328 And if I can get a strong relief pitcher/#4 rotation guy right now for a 'potential' Alex Rios, excellent. I'm all over it. b/c Milledge being ready right now, and Martinez being a lefty bat with more power, makes Gomez the most expendible of the 3. That's all I'm saying. And if I can get a strong relief pitcher/#4 rotation guy right now for a ‘potential’ Alex Rios, excellent. I’m all over it. b/c Milledge being ready right now, and Martinez being a lefty bat with more power, makes Gomez the most expendible of the 3.

That’s all I’m saying.

]]> By: Danny1986 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29323 Danny1986 Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:08:29 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29323 Project last years stats over another 330 ABs, and you get very close to a 20/20 ballplayer. Project last years stats over another 330 ABs, and you get very close to a 20/20 ballplayer.

]]> By: Danny1986 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29322 Danny1986 Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:07:33 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29322 I think having 20/20 players is a measure of a team's athleticism. I am all about fielding a team of great multi-tool athletes. Those teams, as history proves, are usually playoff teams. That is my only point. Teams with an overload of Adam Dunn-types are hit or miss (literally and figuratively). After watching 5+ years of Adam Dunn, I can honestly say that he has maybe beaten us once. I don't fear Adam Dunn. Compare that to Brandon Phillips (multi-tool athlete), who has beaten us on the field, at the plate, or on the basepaths probably 4 times in just the past 2 seasons. That's a very narrow and precise example, but I can name another 10 right off the top of my head. You can jerk off to OBP and Bill James all you want. But it is plain and simple that an athletically superior and talented team is a winning team. I think having 20/20 players is a measure of a team’s athleticism. I am all about fielding a team of great multi-tool athletes. Those teams, as history proves, are usually playoff teams. That is my only point.

Teams with an overload of Adam Dunn-types are hit or miss (literally and figuratively). After watching 5+ years of Adam Dunn, I can honestly say that he has maybe beaten us once. I don’t fear Adam Dunn. Compare that to Brandon Phillips (multi-tool athlete), who has beaten us on the field, at the plate, or on the basepaths probably 4 times in just the past 2 seasons. That’s a very narrow and precise example, but I can name another 10 right off the top of my head.

You can jerk off to OBP and Bill James all you want. But it is plain and simple that an athletically superior and talented team is a winning team.

]]> By: Danny1986 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29318 Danny1986 Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:57:10 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29318 If you think Adam Dunn is awesome, than I would love to field a team against your 'awesome' roster everyday. Hell...make it a doubleheader. Adam Dunn is obviousy a good ballplayer, but he is far from awesome and probably the last thing the Mets need. We already have an Adam Dunn, his name is Carlos Delgado. I would consider swaping him for Delgado, but that isn't happening. And a lineup featuring two slow one-dimensional players who have a propensity to not put the ball in play and play very suspect defense is not an improvement. Stop with the arrogance, presumptions of our source of knowledge, and personal attacks. It displays your juvenile ignorance far more than your elite baseball knowledge. If you think Adam Dunn is awesome, than I would love to field a team against your ‘awesome’ roster everyday. Hell…make it a doubleheader.

Adam Dunn is obviousy a good ballplayer, but he is far from awesome and probably the last thing the Mets need. We already have an Adam Dunn, his name is Carlos Delgado. I would consider swaping him for Delgado, but that isn’t happening. And a lineup featuring two slow one-dimensional players who have a propensity to not put the ball in play and play very suspect defense is not an improvement.

Stop with the arrogance, presumptions of our source of knowledge, and personal attacks. It displays your juvenile ignorance far more than your elite baseball knowledge.

]]> By: jboles1123 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29301 jboles1123 Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:30:14 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29301 I have to say one thing. Milledge is untouchable unless its for a Santana, peavy, oswalt or bedard type of pitcher. Blanton who i really like is a tier below, but instantly replaces glavines production and has much better stuff. I have to say one thing. Milledge is untouchable unless its for a Santana, peavy, oswalt or bedard type of pitcher. Blanton who i really like is a tier below, but instantly replaces glavines production and has much better stuff.

]]> By: metstoday.com http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29266 metstoday.com Thu, 18 Oct 2007 04:21:46 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29266 20/20 what? Eyesight? He needs to get to 10/10 first. Though, he did once hit 13 HRs and steal 23 bases in the South Atlantic League back in 2004. That's something. 20/20 what? Eyesight?

He needs to get to 10/10 first.

Though, he did once hit 13 HRs and steal 23 bases in the South Atlantic League back in 2004. That’s something.

]]> By: metstoday.com http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29265 metstoday.com Thu, 18 Oct 2007 04:18:47 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29265 Better yet -- did he have an opinion of Alex Rios three years ago? Better yet — did he have an opinion of Alex Rios three years ago?

]]> By: metstoday.com http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29264 metstoday.com Thu, 18 Oct 2007 04:16:29 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/17/minors-trade-bait-for-a-pitcher/#comment-29264 Why is everyone so hell bent on plate discipline? Does Torii Hunter have plate discipline? Jimmy Rollins? Andruw Jones? Vlad Guerrero? Did Roberto Clemente? Willie Wilson? Or Willie Mays? Anyone who is down on Carlos Gomez, let me ask if you would like to have Alex Rios right now. Then go and check Rios' stats when he was aged 19-21. No power, no plate discipline -- just raw talent. And his body type and tools are strikingly similar to Gomez, minus the speed. Gomez may not have the "plate discipline" to be a leadoff hitter some day. So what? He could turn out to be a very nice #6 hitter with a Gold Glove and 50+ steals to boot (or do basestealers always have to bat first?). Why is everyone so hell bent on plate discipline? Does Torii Hunter have plate discipline? Jimmy Rollins? Andruw Jones? Vlad Guerrero? Did Roberto Clemente? Willie Wilson? Or Willie Mays?

Anyone who is down on Carlos Gomez, let me ask if you would like to have Alex Rios right now. Then go and check Rios’ stats when he was aged 19-21. No power, no plate discipline — just raw talent. And his body type and tools are strikingly similar to Gomez, minus the speed.

Gomez may not have the “plate discipline” to be a leadoff hitter some day. So what? He could turn out to be a very nice #6 hitter with a Gold Glove and 50+ steals to boot (or do basestealers always have to bat first?).

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