is fox the only one who is in love with joe buck? i can’t stand that this guy calls every sporting event of significance these days. maybe im a homer, but give me ron darling any day of the week.

Your apparent fragile intellect aside…..Why is it insulting to their religion? They are giving thanks to an entity that they believe allowed them to focus and produce successful results.

They have the right to say what they want. As you are free to voice your opinion on the matter as well. It’s a beautiful system.

Difference is it’s pretty clear where they are coming from. Can’t say the same regarding your comments.

slob, if you don’t like people thanking the lord for their accomplishments then you have to stop rooting for the Mets. Players like Carlos Beltran are devout Christians and I’ve seen him thank god many times for various personal and team accomplishments. Marlon Anderson is another devout Christian.

There are many players on many teams who thank the lord after a win or good game. If some Rockies just did it, then they are no different from other teams.

1) You don’t think it’s at least mildly insulting to the sanctity of a religion if the players invoke Jesus’ name with every success? Does anyone really believe that any deity is so fundamentally distracted by banality that they would interfere in the outcome of a baseball game?

2) Where I’m coming from? What does that even mean. It seems pretty clear that you are grasping for straws in some attempt to insult me personally. All I did was state that I would be rooting for the other team because they were less vocal about their faith. Why does that cause you to want to insult me?

3) I root for the Mets in spite of those players. I don’t dislike them. I don’t have any issue with their personal beliefs, and whoever they thank regarding their personal accomplishments is none of my business. But I will say that I would find it much easier to root for a bunch of beer-swilling, unkempt, foul-mouthed atheists.

4) It isn’t just “some Rockies”. It’s an organizational philosophy. I don’t identify with it. I think it is flawed and unnecessarily exclusionary. The Rockies’ clubhouse is essentially a workplace. People should not have to feel as though they must be of a particular religion to be accepted at their workplace.

slob, I know some of your comments were in reply to Danny, but some were in reply to me, so I’m going to address them all:

1) Can you be specific as to what any Rockie said after the NLCS that you are objecting to? Or are you just talking in generalities? Did a Rockie just thank the lord? If so, that’s nothing but a tribute to their god and it wouldn’t have mattered if the player was thanking Allah or Buddha for the success. It’s an acknowledgment that we humans are pretty small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. It’s a sign of humility. I guess you’d rather have a player get up and say “hey, I was like a god out there and I rocked tonight and my teammates can kiss my feet for this win.”

2) Do you know the Braves have had christianity nights with christian bands and such? That Smoltz is one of the most vocal supporters of such events and has been involved in a controversy regarding religious-based intolerance? And as was stated in the USA Today article, the Nats have had their own controversy with christianity and intolerance. Funny how the Rockies have yet to have one incident over their faith that has caused a controversy in the community. And that there was not one claim from a player in that article that the atmosphere in the clubhouse was one of prejudice or intolerance. Seems you have the “vocal” ones tabbed wrong.

3) The Mets have had teams where they scheduled regular Sunday services. Fonzie was also devout and had bible reading sessions with some of his teammates. And as I mentioned, both Anderson and Beltran are very devout. There are probably many more current Mets too. So you’re saying it’s ok if it’s a team you root for but not OK for the Rockies? You’re saying it’s none of your business that Beltran thanks the lord for a team win or personal accomplishments, but if a Rockie does it, it’s an insult to religion? Wow, way to go there with double standards!

4) Not all Rockie players or team executives are devout christians. What’s an organizational philosophy is to try to recruit players with good character (like Omar tries to do) without regard to beliefs. O’Dowd even said he didn’t know exactly who was christian and who wasn’t. There is nothing exclusionary in their recruitment of players or personnel. The article makes that clear but I guess it’s more important for you to rant about religion. There is also no basis for your inference that players on the Rockies who are not christian feel they are not accepted. I doubt Kaz is christian. Yet he probably feels more comfortable in the Rockies clubhouse and in the city of Denver than he ever did with the Mets in NY.

Some in the media have chosen to blow up this story all out of proportion. Thankfully it’s just an itty bitty minority from what I can tell.

Bottom line is that not one ex-player or ex-employee or community group has ever come out and criticized the team or the front office for their beliefs or the environment they fostered. The same cannot be said of the Braves or the Nats.

1) I was going by the article, not what anyone said after the NLCS. When I read the quotes by Monfort I made my decision to never root for the Rockies, unless they happen to play the Yankees, or anyone ahead of the Mets in the East.

2) I was aware of the Braves controversy regarding their faith nights, which I personally find deplorable. I was not aware of the Nats. Doesn’t really matter since I’d never root for either of those teams anyway. As far as Smoltz goes, I know he’s been a vocal “Christian athlete”. And while I certainly don’t agree with him I recognize his right to be whatever he wants. Again, this isn’t about any one player, or number of players. It is about organizational philosophy. Smoltz can play ball and he can rip the still-beating hearts out of sacrificial virgins to feed to Quetzalcoatl for all I care, I’d just prefer not to hear about it.

3) The Mets have never, as whole, had the Christian athlete haven image that the Rockies have, so that comparison doesn’t work. I’m a Met fan because when I was six I watched a bunch of exciting, energetic, brash cokeheads win a World Series. Not going to change my stripes because a couple of religious players join the team years later. It is not a double standard to keep your allegiance despite philosophical differences with several players on the team. We’re talking about the Rockies here, a team I had no opinion on prior to reading that article. As far as players “thanking the lord” after a big win, I tend to cringe whenever I hear it, regardless of what team they’re on, Beltran included. I’d prefer if they didn’t do that. But I don’t really care as much you seem to think I do. I recognize it’s part of the game.

4) As far as how Kaz, or any other player, feels, I don’t know. Don’t really care. I know how I’d feel, and that is what formed my inference. I’ve had to work in situations like that before, and it was without a doubt the worst working environment I ever had to endure.

This isn’t about the Mets. This isn’t about Beltran. This isn’t about the Braves. This is about how the Colorado Rockies have become known as “the team of Jesus freaks”. It’s just not my cup of tea. This time, I’ll be rooting for the other guy.

1) So you don’t like a team because its owner is a devout Christian who may have loony ideas but does not impose his religion on his employees, tolerate an environment of exclusion or prejudice, or hire according to religious faith? Uh, ok.

2) Do you know what the Rockies organizational philosophy is? Care to state it? There is nowhere in the article that states the philosophy is anything other than to acquire people with “good character.” Christianity is not a requirement. The philosophy may have arisen out of Christian beliefs, but that’s as far as it goes. The Rockies philosophy is no different from that often espoused by the Wilpons and sometimes by Omar.

3) The “Christian athlete haven image” which was portrayed by the USA Today article has been refuted by Rockies players and management as being misleading (see below). I’m not surprised, as at one point in the article, the author states a situation to exist (pressure on players to act Christian to keep their jobs), says former Rockies players confirm it, but then totally fails to back that up. He doesn’t name any players and instead just gives a quote by Sweeney in which he merely wonders whether that situation exists too but doesn’t confirm it. Sloppy journalism at best. If you want proof that this article was misleading, how about the fact that the story never had any traction? It has been relegated to fringy, edgy or agenda-driven blogs. Even with so many stories on the Rockies the last few weeks, I’m not aware of any established media outlets even mentioning it.

As for a double standard, that’s exactly what I see in you. You’re criticizing a team harshly because some of its players are devout Christians yet the team you root for has them too. And maybe even more of them. Your prior allegiance to the Mets is the reason for your double standard, but it nevertheless is a double standard. And if you don’t care if players thank the lord after a win, then why did you say in your previous post: “Perhaps the issue is with people standing up on national television and thanking Jesus for their victory in a sporting event, which is insulting to both their religion and my intellect?” That’s exactly what Beltran and lots of other athletes do everyday all over baseball. You’re contradicting yourself.

4) You’re basing your opinion on your own personal experiences. As mentioned, there is no indication that the beliefs held by Rockies officials or players have ever had a negative impact on any player, employee or community organization. And as mentioned, the article was misleading in the first place.

What’s funny is that “the team of Jesus freaks” is solely your characterization. Your words. No one else (except maybe the fringe elements) is saying it. If that’s how you want to be – hateful and narrow-minded – then that’s your choice.

Now, for the article being misleading, see this post made on June 1st, 2006 at 11:59am on this blog:

http://demagogue.blogspot.com/2006_06_01_demagogue_archive.html

Here are some excerpts:

“…subsequent articles in two Colorado newspapers reported that USA Today misrepresented the influence of religion on the team…several Rockies players took issue with USA Today’s depiction. For example, this is what Rockies pitcher Jason Jennings told the Denver Post about the original article:

“I have never seen a Bible (out in the open) in our clubhouse,” said pitcher Aaron Cook, who has led the team’s chapel service during spring training. “Most of the guys on this team are Christians, but not all of them. And the fact is you don’t build a winner around just Christians. If that was the case, everybody would be doing it.”

Slob -

You have to understand that your original post was as open ended as it gets. So, yes….I was fishing for an explanation. Besides, I seriously doubt that you were realistically expecting no-one to respond.

We live in a society where it has become fopau to be a Christian and, worse yet, to proclaim being one. There is this rather large secular elitist movement that has taken over much of the American Institution and, through media and popular culture, scoffs and ridicules those with faith and paints them with broad brush strokes. Faith is not a red-state/blue-state thing, and the arrogance of Hollywood, Lobbyists, and Media Moguls have strategically and successfully defined it as such. Very unfortunate.

I can understand the gripe with Religious influence targeting the government, as it is a constitutional violation and is indeed unAmerican. But if the Rockies end up winning the World Series and give just one ounce of thanks to the Lord, as it is their right, I will guarantee that the elitists will be threatened and react with hateful carpet-bombing condescension. Is that any less Un-American? Despite the hypocrisy and targeted over-reactive persecution, Chrisitians will survive. The have certainly endured worse things than the wrath of Bill Maher. So really, it’s just another day.

I do think it is a bit cheesy when someone thanks Jesus for hitting a game winning HR or, better yet, knocks out his opponent in Round 5. Does Jesus care that this guy won a ballgame? no. But does he care that one of his followers is happy and wants to give thanks for his God-given gifts? Absolutley. So I have no problem with it. To me, it’s no differnt than thanking your parents, coach, or a HS teacher who changed your life and got you to where you currently stand. But I can understand why others may feel uncomfortable at the cheese-level.

But what I don’t understand is if someone goes so far as to say they will root against a team b/c of their faith, and use the “Faith has nothing to do with baseball” line as their defense. Yet for 4 hours you will watch the Colorodo Rockies run, hit, and throw a baseball…and do so with excitement and precision (something our team lacked 80% of the time this year…but I digress). You will likely see nothing in regards to them porfessing their faith over those 4 hours. IT’s not like they subsistiuted “Take Me Out to the Ballgame” with “Shine Jesus Shine”. But the mindboggling reasoning is that you decide to not root for them b/c of a 10 second period AFTER the game in which one player may chose to thank Jesus. That makes absolutely no sense and truely has NOTHING to do with the baseball game.

First of all, how is saying I’m not gonna root for them “criticizing them harshly”? You seem to want me to like them. Secondly, that the story “has no traction” and is “misleading” is YOUR assertion. I don’t think so. I’ve heard otherwise. And whether or not YOU believe it to be overblown is not reason enough for me to root for them. Aaron Cook, the guy who LEADS the prayer sessions is telling everyone he’s never seen a bible out in the open. First of all, he’s one of the participants, not an impartial observer. Second, even if that is true it doesn’t mean that it isn’t a hostile working environment for those who don’t conform. That no one has come forward to criticize it only proves to me that people are still afraid of publish backlash if they have the nerve to criticize anything Christian.

I’m puzzled as to why this is so upsetting to you? I like less Jesus in my baseball. So what?

You said the Rockies’ actions were “insulting” to religion, “exclusionary,” and suggested they have fostered an atmosphere comparable to the “worst working environment” you’ve ever encountered. If that isn’t harsh, I don’t know what is. There is no basis for the latter two points, and as to whether they were insulting, that’s a matter of opinion. But if you insist on thinking so then you’d have to agree that similar actions by Beltran and other Mets and players throughout baseball are similarly “insulting.”

And no, it is not just my assertion that the article is misleading and has no traction. The Denver Post did follow up stories that said it was misleading. The participants involved said it was misleading. And that blogger I cited called it misleading. That blogger by the way appears to have a strong secularist bent, taking to task religious conservatives.

If you’ve heard anyone say this article has merit, give a source and link. Give a source with facts and quotes, not just opinion/commentary. As I said, the only one talking about it these days are fringe or edgy blogs. No one else is. If you think they are, it would be easy to find a link, right? Give one.

And this story came out more than a year ago. Since then I am not aware of a single ex-player or employee who has confirmed anything negative critics such as you are saying about the team’s beliefs. There have no doubt been plenty of players and employees who have since left the organization. Yet not a single one has supported your position. As ex-players and employees, they would have no fear of retribution by speaking out against an old employer if they felt there was a detrimental working environment .

By the way, I’m not for “less” religion in baseball, I’m for no religion in baseball. I’m an agnostic. But as long as it’s harmless wherever it happens to be, then it doesn’t bother me a bit. What the Braves did and the Nats did was harmful. What the Rockies did/do isn’t.

If they want to practice Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or Buddhism at Shea everyday in the clubhouse or in the executive offices, I have no issue with it at all as long as they are not exclusionary or biased against other faiths.

I don’t want you to like the Rockies. If you want to root for the Indians, fine. I just want to point out where I believe your thinking on this issue is very erroneous, fed by a misleading article and/or prejudicial leanings on your part. I know I’m not going to change your opinion. I just want to give my opposing viewpoints … and c