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…earlier this morning, i noted how at his blog for the Journal News, Yankees beat writer Peter Abraham quoted Mariano Rivera as saying he is ‘more determined 
than ever’ to test the free-agent market, considering how recent treatment of Joe Torre…
…the initial post’s comment’s section took on a long conversation of how the Mets could sign mariano and force Billy Wagner to the set-up role…i’m just thinking out loud here, with nothing based in fact, but, assuming the Mets paid rivera more than any other team, i wonder if he and wagner would be comfortable being a two-headed save monster…one right-handed…one left-handed…sort of the old Jesse Orosco-Roger McDowell model, but with a lot more credibility and success in their sails…i mean, they already share the same music, how about they share the same job…
…i don’t think there is any chance of this happening, of course, but it’s fun to dream about…
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Interesting idea. Don’t think it will work, since both guys have been successful closers for so long, and at least with Wagner I think there is some weird save ego-trip thing going on where he wants to be THE closer.
Imagine, and this is just crazy with a guy like Randolph managing, but imagine they just forgot about saves and used the best relievers in the highest leverage situations no matter what the inning. If we had Mo and Wagner, to be complemented by Heilman and (hopefully!) Duaner, we’d be sick. Of course Willie would just always use them all in the same innings no matter what the score.
I like the idea if the concept is too use each half as much, but twice as long. Would this permit Willie to use each for two inning stints rather than one? (not sure if it makes sense). Remember, Orosco frequently went multiple innings.
Unlike Orosco and McDowell who had little ego issues, both Wagner and Rivera are closers and want to be the best. Not sure either would appreciate reduced “save” situations.
Would it make the team strong, yes, so long as both bought into to it and the concept of team first, personal records second.
PLAN!
Mets trade wagner to boston for manny (manny takes the place for alou – their defense is a wash but manny > offense, the redson put wagner at closer and papelbon back in the roation (take the spot of schilling), then the redsox sign arod (with the money saved on the manny trade and on lowell and schiling leaving). the mets sign rivera to be their closer.
the mets in the end get manny and rivera — they save the money of wagner, green, alou and glavine
the redsox lose manny schilling lowell and get wagner and arod.
what do you all think
What makes you think the Sox would trade Manny Ramirez for Billy Wagner? And have an inferior, older closer take the place of a young stud who had the opportunity to go back into the rotation this year and instead decided he wanted to stay as the closer. (I’m talking about Papelbon)
The Mets would save little to no money, and might even lose money considering the size of Manny’s contract (> Wagner’s) and what it would take to sign Mo. Come on now.
very simple why redsox would want to trade manny
1) in order to sign arod
2) they have this kid ellsbury who is ready to play every day
3) manny might of pissed off the team and fan base with his recent comments
4) he has 1 year left on his contract
obviously it wont be just wagner for manny, there will need to be more pieces.
once again, a package of wagner to boston for manny who then put papelbon back in the rotation (taking the spot of schilling who leaves via free agency). then the redsox sign arod to play 3rd, let lowell leave and put ellsbury in left.
the mets then sign rivera to become their new closer.
the difference in manny and wagners salary is about 8 million and rivera signs for about 12-13mil.. the mets get all that money back from glavine alou and green leaving = 20 million
in theory, me likes……but no way BoSox rid themselves on ManRam….he is too ingrained in BoSox lore!
Sign Rivera and trade Wagner already!
teams that would need a closer
1) redsox (put papelbon back in the rotation
2) orioles
3) phillies (wont happen)
4) d’backs
5) cubs (sounds good)
6) brewes (cordero is a free agent)
7) reds
8) giants
among all those teams, i think wagner to redsox cubs or giants can be possible
Mariano to the phils is a terrifying prospect. I don’t see why it couldn’t happen. They have the money and they certainly have the need. They can move myers back to the rotation. Sounds like a pretty ideal fit. Just seems weird picturing rivera outside of new york though.
Yeah, we’ll have Mariano and Billy in the bullpen and Rudy and Willie in the dugout. Sounds like the making of a peaceful atmosphere.
“i don’t think there is any chance of this happening”
why not? cuz it actually makes sense? it’s a great and doable idea.
Yeah it is a great idea. Only problem is that Wagner will moan and groan about how he can’t pitch well if it’s not a save situation. Then he’ll make excuses because he can’t get his adrenaline up if he’s pitching the 8th inning.
If he magically turned into a team player once the Mets were to sign Mariano … it would be a fantastic combination. Unfortunately, Wagner would never put the team before himself. He’s a loser.
uggg…I just cant wait until this stupid WS is over so we can start talking about things that acctually might happen.
Wagner had a run of bad outings towards the end of the season this year and in the playoffs last year. This may not be so far fetched as it appears…
didn’t Wettland and Rivera do the same thing
Yea, when Rivera was a rookie. He wouldn’t do it now
the mets are not the yankees and will not pay closers money to somone who wont be there closer… look at the yankees paying farnsworth.. we all know how that turned out for them
wags and mo are too successful to “split saves”… it would be impossible for them to get into, as willie would say “a nice little rhythm” and bang out 4 saves in a week
I like the concept, but I don’t think it will happen with Rivera 9just too unlikely that all the pieces fall into place). he is staying in the Bronx 9my guess only!)
However, if the Mets had a younger guy to share the load 9closer in waiting?) that wouldnlt step on Wags toes, that would be ideal. Especially if Willie would use him correctly, and not automatically just sink with Wags in every save situation.
Kind of like when rivera came up to caddy for Whetland. And I am sure there are other examples of this.
Maybe we can get lucky and kunz will work over the winter, and explode onto the scene in spring training?
I guess in today’s BP set up, this would be the 8th inning guy, but also someone that could easily close, and will eventually supplament the incumbent closer.
Sanzhe probably would have done this if he hadn’t gotten hurt. maybe he still will!
wags, Kunz(?), a healthy Sanchez, that would be a nice back end. Heilmann could even go into the rotatin to play the Joe Blanton role!
a 2 headed Blow Saves Monster, what is the matter with all of you, we want this team to get Younger and Better not Older and worse. Altho Wagner did have less blow saves this year than last year, he did start to wear out at the end of the season an started to blow more saves. Rivera also is not his old self, and has shown so with his blown save Numbers over the last few years. How would the Mets Benefit by signing Rivera?
The problem with the Mets is that they have always gone after the big name players towards the decline of their careers, AKA Bonilla,Vaughn, Delgado, Burnitz to some extent, Green etc, etc, etc. The other unfortunate event that i see happening is that alot of Mets fans seem to think this is ok, like they are almost getting brainwashed to belive that these Players are going to join the Mets and miraculously return to their old form, WAKE UP!!! Its not going to happen, Mariano Rivera is not going to Come to flushing and all of a Sudden be Lights Out.
One thing to keep in mind is that Mo is 37ish, and his stuff isn’t what it used to be. he could easily decline real quick if he loses some bite on the cutter, or any injury problems (elbow, back) flare up.
So you might get him, but not what you bargained for!
Why would the Mets want to OVERPAY for an aging Rivera. Listen folks, this is not the Rivera of 96-02, this is the 37 year old version who is getting hit more and more. We need to get younger, not more Yankee like.
That’s one of the thing that I take arguement with, in terms of other Mets fans. It is not a coup to “steal” a player from the Yankees. There would be a reason that the Yanks would not want a certain player, and we all know $ is not that reason. Let them overpay for Mo, Jorge and A-Headache. How about we make some smart moves which position us not only for next season, but the Citi Field version in ‘09? Signing any of the Yankee elders would not accomplish that. (Except for A-Rod, but even he’s not worth it)
I have an idea, let’s move Wright to 1st, sign A-Rod to play 3rd, sign Abreu to platoon with Milledge in RF, sign both Posada and Molina (not that one, no not that one either) to C, give Clemens a pro-rated $40m to pitch only in Sept, and find out if Chad Curtis still has the “skills” to play LF. That would make everything peachy!! And it will only cost Fred $300m for the 08 payroll!!!!! We could never lose that way.
best comment of the day and spot
what are you talking about? there is 1 former yankees on the roster (el duque). g-d forbid the mets added the best reliever in the history of the game for a bullpen that was terrible the last 2 months and caused the team to miss the playoffs.
are you counting willie? a huge mets fan growing up who played for the mets in 1992. the yankees are just another team. who cares?
it’s about winning. mo is the best. he was the best THIS year in the playoffs. lowest era 0.00. last year too: 0.00.
*spot on
The Mets need 2 forget about Mo..I say focus on getting Cordero(Chad) if possible .. or Joe Nathathan…Im ok with bringing in Affeldt too….goodbye Mota,Sele, Show..hope Sanchez and Padilla comback….3 possibilites that are real, and hopefully not risky or too expensive….as for the rotation im ok w/Perez and Maine havin better years then last…Pedro is Pedro when healthy as for spots 4 and 5 ?? I like the idea of Silva comin in , but not for a draft pick..so….we are def gonna make a trade for a starter..so I say trade mid level prospects not the blue chips …i dunno who ..but acquire an upside guy ..like Noah Lowry? If that happens the let Pelf and Humber fight it out for spot 5..and spot start Duque…. PEDRO, PEREZ,MAINE,LOWRY, PELFREY?? not too bad….offense AROD IS NOT GONNA BE A MET!!!! soo……I say bring back Alou, start Milledge fill in Endy late for Alou w/leads or close games…..Infield the same w/castillo gettin rest from Gotay ….and bring back Duca but let Castro and him flip flop weeks…..save all the money and prospects for 09..NEW stadium, Santana, Sheets, Peavy??? Anyway I know my ideas dont please most….but its a thought..LETS GO METS IN 08!!
Matt? Is that you? It doesn’t sound like you.
I guess your ideas are pleasing. They are also completely insane and unfeasible.
insane?? wow….i wouldnt go that far….but i guess u didnt want to get into details.
THIS OFFSEASON IS WHEN WE SAY WHAT MINAYA IS REALLY MADE OF.
Funny no one mentions Pettite as a possibility. If you are gonna bring in a Yankee for a couple of years, maybe Willie can be sueful in brining him on board. He has a 16M player option with th Yankers for 2008.
And Mo’s 0.00era got them where this year? Still playing golf. The Mets would not be bidding for vintage Rivera. HE’S 37!!! As for current Mets/former Yanks. El Duque, are you really arguing that he was clutch for us? 2 years in a row, we couldn’t count on him late in the season. He’s a decent P, but he shouldn’t be counted on to be the #2 guy, which he was this year. Willie is the manager, he’s not manning 2nd base anymore, so that is moot. Why would we want to add more stupid story lines? I know this is NY, but can’t the Mets just assemble a cohesive team, instead of Yankee rejects? This is about winning over 162+, not about winning the Post/Daily News backpages. Hey, you think Torre would want to join the Mets staff? j/k
There would definatly be takers for Wags seeing how big time closers barely hit the open market anymore…. and most come from within.. the problem would be .. who would trade for Wags while Mariano is still on the market .. WAGS for 10mill or MO for 15ish? no brainer , therefore.. the mets would have to sign MO while WAGS is still on the team, then look to trade him,risking getting not alot for him (which still might not be a bad idea) ….they just cant trade him first then look to knock MO’s sox off with an offer and rick going into to 09 with no closer lol … all that being said, i would like CORDERO myself… set up WAGS till hes gone, then he becomes the closer still at a young age
and addin MO does nothing to the “cohesiveness” of this team ….. would u consider WAGNER a real “cohesive” player?
Mo would be a HUGE addition. This is the greatest closer of all-time. He might not be the same as in his prime, but he is still in the top 3 closers of the game. Why not throw some money at him? And contrary to some thoughts, Mariano will not be a Yankee reject…he is upset because he feels spurned by an organization that he gave it all for. They wouldn’t negotatiate with him but they can negotiate with A-Rod?!!? That’s insulting.
Another factor that Omar might want to think about…the rumor is that the Philies are gonna make a huge push for him. So not only will you improve your own bullpen, but you can block the team we are trying to catch (man that was painful to write). Omar, go get Mo!
My comment was aimed at the ‘07 squad, there is no argument that the ‘06 model seemed to be a tighter-knit group, then in ‘07. And they were 1 curve-ball swing away from the WS. This year, from Sanchez’s laziness, to Julio’s “latin” thing, to LoDuca’s comments about fire, to Reyes disrespecting Willie, there was no glue that kept this team tight. And add Rickey, and possibly Castillo to that argument as well. I know it’s not a fair comparison, but look at the Rox. They play like “Band of Brothers”, and it shows. And they are going (unbeaten) into the WS. Yes, quite a few of them did play in the minors together, but even the guys who didn’t seem to honestly “grit-it-out” for the rest of the team. There were only 2 position players, down the stretch, who played like that… Alou and Wright. The rest didn’t seem to have their heads into it 100%. If Wags is not in that frame of mind, off to Siberia (or TB) with him!
We have our closer – we don’t need a $12M set-up man.
Forget the Yankees thing for a moment, let’s just focus on the players, Rivera and Wagner. Both are old, and the majority of Mets fans here have already come to the consensus that we need to get younger. Personally, I think Rivera would be a great signing, but we will not get our money’s worth by the end of his contract (most likely due to injury or declining skill set). Rivera is a warrior, but he is no longer “invincible”.
As for Wagner, when his contract is up, I would be more than willing to bid him “adieu”, provided we have a closer waiting in the wings. And by waiting in the wings, I don’t mean we necessarily bring up “one of our own” to inherit the job from Wagner. I don’t think we currently have anyone that would easily replace Wagner for us that we could count on.
Given the choice of free agents and potential trade prospects available this off season, the best name out there to grab would be Joe Nathan.
Nathan is not only nasty, he’s a horse as well. If the Twins were given the choice, they would rather re-sign Santana to retain some credibility with their fanbase after letting Torii Hunter walk away (their most popular player since Kirby Puckett). Were the Twins to trade Santana or let him walk would be an invitation for a public relations nightmare at best, or a fan boycott at worst.
The Twins are a “zero sum game” team, which means if they sign or extend someone to a fat contract, they’re going to lop off contracts from the team in other areas in order to afford the latest big money deal they give out to someone like Santana. The obvious choice for the Twins is to make Joe Nathan available for trade, as they have the young pitchers now who could take over in Nathan’s closer role, and then the Twins use Nathan to fill in their perceived weaknesses on their team. The money they save on Nathan is used to help defray the costs of signing Santana.
If the Mets are smart, they make a play for Nathan to be their main setup man for 2008, and let Wagner walk after the season and give the closer role to Nathan in 2009… this allows enough time to pass to determine the future roles and the reliabilty (or lack thereof) of the bullpen pitchers we already have that need further evaluation… players like Sanchez, Joe Smith, Padilla, Kunz, Muniz, Collazo, etc. One of those players will have to take over as the main setup man if Mets management determines that Aaron Heilman will be moved to our rotation or traded to another team in a deal that improves our ballclub.
Thinking of our future, let’s face it, we will have no power or leverage to retain Heilman if he opts to leave via free agency if the Mets continue to relegate him to our bullpen where he does not want to be. Better to get value for Heilman either as our 5th starter in 2008, or to trade him in a package for a player or players that we are all hoping to obtain. What’s more, if Heilman is as good as he thinks he is (or as some Mets fans here think he is), then there would be no need to trade for a Joe Blanton, right? lol
If push came to shove, I’d have no problems trading Heilman to the Twins to obtain either Santana or Nathan, but I don’t see Santana in our immediate future. Nathan is a much more realistic possibility, and gives us the added benefit of making our bullpen stronger for 2008 and beyond.
If this were a video game in franchise mode, you could have Mariano Rivera and Billy Wagner split the saves fifty/fifty. You know, “Hey Mo, you go M,W,F. “Billy, you pitch T,TH,SAT, and we’ll split Sundays”. This saves either one from having to pitch back to back days for the most part.
But this is real life, or as real as it ever gets, and this won’t ever happen. But Rivera to the Phillies is a disturbing thought.
Um, Mariano Rivera is the greatest closer of ALL TIME. And he’s still the best around by far. Wagner couldn’t hold his jock strap. If the Mets get Mo, Billy should carry his water bottle and shine his cleats. Why would we ever want the two of them to split the duties? It’s not even a conversation who’s better. Wagner blows big saves, Mo does not.
Rivera? Are you nuts?
Sign Posada & Rivera then hire Joe as Manager.
Make Steinbrenners 3 gag.