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	<title>Comments on: Buzz: Former Marlins OF Cliff Floyd</title>
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	<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/</link>
	<description>MetsBlog.com features the latest Mets rumors, player movement, and news circulating around the Internet, as well as Mets related insights and opinions by Matthew Cerrone and his team of guest bloggers.</description>
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		<title>By: 4JoeOrsulak</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31644</link>
		<dc:creator>4JoeOrsulak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31644</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s true that I pointed out the worst case scenario, and that my rhetoric was a bit harsh.  I apologize.

Trading Milledge for a pitcher and replacing him with Fukudome for the Asian market is interesting. Milledge has shown he can play at least league average in the majors and Fukudome has not shown anything.  Milledge is at worst a cheap average RF, and at best a cheap star in the league.  Fukudome is at worst an expensive bust, at best Hideki Matsui: an expensive borderline All Star.  Still, with the Asian revenue, it&#039;s interesting.

Trading Milledge/Pelfrey/Gomez for Santana-for-rent is just not happening.  There is too high a probability that in the long hall, the three combined will be far chaper and more valuable than Santana.

Why not keep your guys and wait on &#039;09 when your contracts expire to get a Cy Young.  Some will hit the open market.  Then you have Cy Young, Maine, Perez,  and Silva/Pelfrey/Humber rounding out your rotation.  You can bank on Pelfrey &lt;i&gt;or&lt;/i&gt; Humber.  You also have Milledge and Gomez, with F-Mart, and Maldonado waiting in the wings.  If three pan out, you can turn two into a catcher or second baseman, and your costs are low, so you are flexible for free agents in the coming years even if some don&#039;t pan out.

I&#039;m into more risk/more reward long term flexibility.  You seem to be low risk/low reward less flexibility.  The difference is low reward in my book won&#039;t get it done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s true that I pointed out the worst case scenario, and that my rhetoric was a bit harsh.  I apologize.</p>
<p>Trading Milledge for a pitcher and replacing him with Fukudome for the Asian market is interesting. Milledge has shown he can play at least league average in the majors and Fukudome has not shown anything.  Milledge is at worst a cheap average RF, and at best a cheap star in the league.  Fukudome is at worst an expensive bust, at best Hideki Matsui: an expensive borderline All Star.  Still, with the Asian revenue, it&#8217;s interesting.</p>
<p>Trading Milledge/Pelfrey/Gomez for Santana-for-rent is just not happening.  There is too high a probability that in the long hall, the three combined will be far chaper and more valuable than Santana.</p>
<p>Why not keep your guys and wait on &#8216;09 when your contracts expire to get a Cy Young.  Some will hit the open market.  Then you have Cy Young, Maine, Perez,  and Silva/Pelfrey/Humber rounding out your rotation.  You can bank on Pelfrey <i>or</i> Humber.  You also have Milledge and Gomez, with F-Mart, and Maldonado waiting in the wings.  If three pan out, you can turn two into a catcher or second baseman, and your costs are low, so you are flexible for free agents in the coming years even if some don&#8217;t pan out.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m into more risk/more reward long term flexibility.  You seem to be low risk/low reward less flexibility.  The difference is low reward in my book won&#8217;t get it done.</p>
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		<title>By: 4JoeOrsulak</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31596</link>
		<dc:creator>4JoeOrsulak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:17:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31596</guid>
		<description>And (forgive me, but every time I read the post I see the next dumb thing) what are you doing counting on Pedro? He&#039;s gone after next year and is an aging injury risk.  You&#039;re not even thinking past next year!  What about when Delgado &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; Alou are gone?  What if Fukudome does not pan out?  Then you have, if you&#039;re lucky, Tex&#039;s contract, Fukudome&#039;s albatross, Santana&#039;s contract (Lord forbid he gets hurt), no left fielder, no 2nd base, no catcher, no right fielder, Beltran&#039;s contract, and you&#039;re short two pitchers.  If you don&#039;t get Tex, you have no 1st base either.

Even next year, whom do we have when Alou gets hurt?  No catcher; Castillo sucks, Delgado may very well suck, Fukudome may very well suck.  That&#039;s Wright and Reyes and Beltran; period.  The same situation as &#039;07 concerning the Sox-Mets comparison.  Santana might get by on it, but he was 15-13 on a good team last year.  He&#039;s not invincible.  And Maine, Perez, and Pedro are good, but will need more offense than that.

You&#039;ve got your ace, and might as a result be no better in &#039;08 than in 07, and have shot yourself for &#039;10.

Keep the prospects in &#039;08 and you could have twice the team at half the price.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And (forgive me, but every time I read the post I see the next dumb thing) what are you doing counting on Pedro? He&#8217;s gone after next year and is an aging injury risk.  You&#8217;re not even thinking past next year!  What about when Delgado <i>and</i> Alou are gone?  What if Fukudome does not pan out?  Then you have, if you&#8217;re lucky, Tex&#8217;s contract, Fukudome&#8217;s albatross, Santana&#8217;s contract (Lord forbid he gets hurt), no left fielder, no 2nd base, no catcher, no right fielder, Beltran&#8217;s contract, and you&#8217;re short two pitchers.  If you don&#8217;t get Tex, you have no 1st base either.</p>
<p>Even next year, whom do we have when Alou gets hurt?  No catcher; Castillo sucks, Delgado may very well suck, Fukudome may very well suck.  That&#8217;s Wright and Reyes and Beltran; period.  The same situation as &#8216;07 concerning the Sox-Mets comparison.  Santana might get by on it, but he was 15-13 on a good team last year.  He&#8217;s not invincible.  And Maine, Perez, and Pedro are good, but will need more offense than that.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve got your ace, and might as a result be no better in &#8216;08 than in 07, and have shot yourself for &#8216;10.</p>
<p>Keep the prospects in &#8216;08 and you could have twice the team at half the price.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31594</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31594</guid>
		<description>Hmmm . . I understand the point of playing for the future and not mortgaging the future for a possibly fruitless win now attitude, but what&#039;s exactly fantasy like about the above? It&#039;s not like I&#039;m advocating trading Milledge for Manny and other such obsurdity.

Aside from trading for Johan, with the idea of not letting him hit the open market, anything else noted would seem, at least to me, prudent fiscal use of funds.

Silva - a solid starter to add depth to the rotation. FA which only costs money

Castillo - Solid contyributor. FA which only costs money.

Fukudome - Doorway to the Asian market which will return dollars. Scouted as a solid ballplayer, I&#039;m thinking 80 - 85% the other Matsui. FA which only costs dollars.

That rotation, and lineup should be a force for &#039;08 while not martgaging the future. Granted, Milledge, Pelfrey and someone else will be gone, but it does leave us whomever from this list is not included: Gomez, Humber, Carp, Mulvey, F-Mart, etc.

Johan, Maine, Perez and Silva would continue into the future with a 5th starter TBD. That&#039;s not awful . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm . . I understand the point of playing for the future and not mortgaging the future for a possibly fruitless win now attitude, but what&#8217;s exactly fantasy like about the above? It&#8217;s not like I&#8217;m advocating trading Milledge for Manny and other such obsurdity.</p>
<p>Aside from trading for Johan, with the idea of not letting him hit the open market, anything else noted would seem, at least to me, prudent fiscal use of funds.</p>
<p>Silva &#8211; a solid starter to add depth to the rotation. FA which only costs money</p>
<p>Castillo &#8211; Solid contyributor. FA which only costs money.</p>
<p>Fukudome &#8211; Doorway to the Asian market which will return dollars. Scouted as a solid ballplayer, I&#8217;m thinking 80 &#8211; 85% the other Matsui. FA which only costs dollars.</p>
<p>That rotation, and lineup should be a force for &#8216;08 while not martgaging the future. Granted, Milledge, Pelfrey and someone else will be gone, but it does leave us whomever from this list is not included: Gomez, Humber, Carp, Mulvey, F-Mart, etc.</p>
<p>Johan, Maine, Perez and Silva would continue into the future with a 5th starter TBD. That&#8217;s not awful . . .</p>
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		<title>By: 4JoeOrsulak</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31593</link>
		<dc:creator>4JoeOrsulak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31593</guid>
		<description>Hanley Ramirez had virtually no major league experience when they traded him and Anibal Sanchez was a huge injury risk, as his most recent trip to the DL has shown.  The Sox got Becket and Lowell for him.  More silliness.  Milledge is more of a card now than Ramirez was then.  You keep subverting your own arguments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hanley Ramirez had virtually no major league experience when they traded him and Anibal Sanchez was a huge injury risk, as his most recent trip to the DL has shown.  The Sox got Becket and Lowell for him.  More silliness.  Milledge is more of a card now than Ramirez was then.  You keep subverting your own arguments.</p>
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		<title>By: 4JoeOrsulak</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31588</link>
		<dc:creator>4JoeOrsulak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31588</guid>
		<description>Wow.  That&#039;s a lot of ridiculous ideas to chew on.

First, I&#039;ll mention the silliness of fantasy lineups.

Then, I&#039;ll say that the disparity in talent between the Red Sox and Mets makes the idea of mortgaging the future for Santana absurd, since even with Santana we don&#039;t win a World Series in &#039;08 and it weakens us in &#039;09, when we can get a Cy Young as a free agent and have kept our prospects, who will have improved by &#039;09.  Milledge shows all signs of being excellent, and if two of our other three outfielders Gomez, F-Mart and Maldonado pan out, we can trade two of them for greater value to fill other positions, rather than trade them now when they can only bring back limited value.

Tread water and short term stopgaps in &#039;08.  Play for &#039;09 and &#039;10.  We are fortunate to have four very young studs (counting our two pitchers) to build around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  That&#8217;s a lot of ridiculous ideas to chew on.</p>
<p>First, I&#8217;ll mention the silliness of fantasy lineups.</p>
<p>Then, I&#8217;ll say that the disparity in talent between the Red Sox and Mets makes the idea of mortgaging the future for Santana absurd, since even with Santana we don&#8217;t win a World Series in &#8216;08 and it weakens us in &#8216;09, when we can get a Cy Young as a free agent and have kept our prospects, who will have improved by &#8216;09.  Milledge shows all signs of being excellent, and if two of our other three outfielders Gomez, F-Mart and Maldonado pan out, we can trade two of them for greater value to fill other positions, rather than trade them now when they can only bring back limited value.</p>
<p>Tread water and short term stopgaps in &#8216;08.  Play for &#8216;09 and &#8216;10.  We are fortunate to have four very young studs (counting our two pitchers) to build around.</p>
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		<title>By: keithc</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31515</link>
		<dc:creator>keithc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31515</guid>
		<description>Could just be me, but I would have rather had Piazza than Conine as our late-inning righty bat this year.  

If we don&#039;t intend to bring back Green, 1 year $3 mill for Cliff won&#039;t kill us.  He&#039;d make a solid fourth outfielder to spell Alou or Milledge.  We could then use Endy to spell Beltran more frequently during the early parts of the year, when Beltran isn&#039;t as hot of a hitter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could just be me, but I would have rather had Piazza than Conine as our late-inning righty bat this year.  </p>
<p>If we don&#8217;t intend to bring back Green, 1 year $3 mill for Cliff won&#8217;t kill us.  He&#8217;d make a solid fourth outfielder to spell Alou or Milledge.  We could then use Endy to spell Beltran more frequently during the early parts of the year, when Beltran isn&#8217;t as hot of a hitter.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31487</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31487</guid>
		<description>Based on this &quot;compare Boston to the Mets&quot; comments lately, it kinda re-inforces the &quot;get Johan at all costs&quot; mentality. I was thinking the same reading the paper this morning.

Move the farm for him, just get him. The Sox moved Hanlet Ramirez for him, someone whom many compare to Reyes. Granted, his true ability was still uncertain at the time as he was still basically an minor leaguer, but still . . . Milledge, Pelfrey and Gomez/Humber/Mulvey - you do it.

We can replace parts later. Get the Man when you can and try to sign him to an extension once he&#039;s here. Offer him something fair, if not above going rate, to secure his services.

Milledge can be replaced with Fukudome. Silva can be an innings eater type mid rotation starter.

Santana
Pedro
Maine
Perez
Silva

Takes a lot of pressure of the &#039;pen.

Reyes
Castillo
Wright
Beltran
Alou
Delgado
Fukudome
Catcher

Maybe Carp can replace Delgado in &#039;09. Maybe F-Mart makes strides by then as well, although Gomez may still be here, to replace Alou. Either way, a minor OF signing should handle that position.

That sets us up well going into CitiField I think . . .

. . . . that&#039;s if Milledge, Pelfrey and Humber get the deal done!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on this &#8220;compare Boston to the Mets&#8221; comments lately, it kinda re-inforces the &#8220;get Johan at all costs&#8221; mentality. I was thinking the same reading the paper this morning.</p>
<p>Move the farm for him, just get him. The Sox moved Hanlet Ramirez for him, someone whom many compare to Reyes. Granted, his true ability was still uncertain at the time as he was still basically an minor leaguer, but still . . . Milledge, Pelfrey and Gomez/Humber/Mulvey &#8211; you do it.</p>
<p>We can replace parts later. Get the Man when you can and try to sign him to an extension once he&#8217;s here. Offer him something fair, if not above going rate, to secure his services.</p>
<p>Milledge can be replaced with Fukudome. Silva can be an innings eater type mid rotation starter.</p>
<p>Santana<br />
Pedro<br />
Maine<br />
Perez<br />
Silva</p>
<p>Takes a lot of pressure of the &#8216;pen.</p>
<p>Reyes<br />
Castillo<br />
Wright<br />
Beltran<br />
Alou<br />
Delgado<br />
Fukudome<br />
Catcher</p>
<p>Maybe Carp can replace Delgado in &#8216;09. Maybe F-Mart makes strides by then as well, although Gomez may still be here, to replace Alou. Either way, a minor OF signing should handle that position.</p>
<p>That sets us up well going into CitiField I think . . .</p>
<p>. . . . that&#8217;s if Milledge, Pelfrey and Humber get the deal done!</p>
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		<title>By: jdon</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31485</link>
		<dc:creator>jdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31485</guid>
		<description>these kind of comparisons make no sense.  compare lineups to pitchers.   sox are better.  you are right about that.  we have no beckett.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>these kind of comparisons make no sense.  compare lineups to pitchers.   sox are better.  you are right about that.  we have no beckett.</p>
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		<title>By: KinersKornerman</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31460</link>
		<dc:creator>KinersKornerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 04:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31460</guid>
		<description>Gentlemen, excellent points.
I stand corrected on Lowell v. Wright
Wright: .325 30 107   
Lowell: .324 21 120 
Wright has the edge on SB and OPS.  
So then we got 3 positions over Boston.  
Still long way to go, as you both said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gentlemen, excellent points.<br />
I stand corrected on Lowell v. Wright<br />
Wright: .325 30 107<br />
Lowell: .324 21 120<br />
Wright has the edge on SB and OPS.<br />
So then we got 3 positions over Boston.<br />
Still long way to go, as you both said.</p>
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		<title>By: yagottabelieve</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31459</link>
		<dc:creator>yagottabelieve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 04:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/10/24/buzz-former-marlins-of-cliff-floyd/#comment-31459</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d take Wright at 3B over Lowell.  At worst, I&#039;d call that even.  Still, your point is well taken.

That&#039;s 5 offensive spots where the Sox have a clear edge - and at Fenway it becomes six, since they would also get to start Ortiz, who is light years better than whatever extra bat we might use (probably Anderson against a RHP or Conine against a LHP).  

Pitching wise, you&#039;d have to give them the edge in rotation simply because of Beckett... the 2-4 starters are pretty close otherwise.  And you can&#039;t even begin to compare bullpens.

Unfortunately, we are a long way away from Boston&#039;s talent level right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d take Wright at 3B over Lowell.  At worst, I&#8217;d call that even.  Still, your point is well taken.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s 5 offensive spots where the Sox have a clear edge &#8211; and at Fenway it becomes six, since they would also get to start Ortiz, who is light years better than whatever extra bat we might use (probably Anderson against a RHP or Conine against a LHP).  </p>
<p>Pitching wise, you&#8217;d have to give them the edge in rotation simply because of Beckett&#8230; the 2-4 starters are pretty close otherwise.  And you can&#8217;t even begin to compare bullpens.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, we are a long way away from Boston&#8217;s talent level right now.</p>
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