Plus, I think a lot of the public perception of him is media driven. … Look at what happened with LoDuca. They could have made a huge deal about that, but they didn’t It ran for about a week, but then it died. Why is that? I doubt ARod is the only guy with transgressions while on the road… why don’t we hear about them? Because no one gives a damn about LoDuca or anyone else.

Huh? Who’s even talking about A-Rod’s indiscretions in this thread? LOL, you seem to be the only one. Maybe you’re the one obsessed over it. And no one bashing A-Rod in the media the last week is bringing it up either. No. What they bring up are other things like his greed, immaturity, postseason failures, and unprofessional behavior like the slap — not driven by the media, but driven by A-Rod himself. If he didn’t act so poorly so often, he wouldn’t have the reputation he has. His rep is self-created.

Try to stay on point here.

…and where have you been for the last four years. He has been constantly under fire for BS reasons in all the papers. When he was struggling in ‘06 there were a ton of articles about how ARod wasn’t a “true Yankee”. This was discussed ad nauseum.

Huh? Where have you been the last 4 years? That comment did not even come out of the Bronx. And the flak he got wasn’t for BS reasons. All of it was warranted. I know of no other high profile baseball player who has acted so immaturely and unprofessionally during this time.

you can’t say he isn’t a draw at all.

Sure you can. Because 1) There’s evidence his presence depressed attendance in Texas or at least coincided with it and 2) Attendance went up after he left Seattle and 3) There’s no evidence that he on his own is a draw. As for his chase for the records, that won’t happen for years. Any attendance bump won’t come until long after he signs his next contract.

Yes, really. Only A-Rod fanboys think otherwise. You think people would mock A-Rod mercilessly over this (the pink purse) if he just ran someone over? This was one of the most unsportsmanlike displays of on-field behavior I’ve ever seen.

You don’t ever bring anything new to the table. You just repeat your propaganda over and over again. If the Yankees didn’t have ARod they would not have made the playoffs.

Neither do you. And if you really feel that way why do you 1) keep reading my posts and 2) keep replying to them? What does that say about you if really believe what you say? As for making the playoffs, they don’t make it without Wang, or Chamberlain, or Posada, or Abreu either. When A-Rod was at his hottest, his team sank to 9 games under .500.

Chad Bradford would not have lifted the Mets to the playoffs.

Totally disagree. Surely he would have meant at the very least 2 more wins for the team and that would have meant the playofffs.

And you can’ t cry penny pinching because they decided to give that money to Show

That’s just part of the reason. It’s also because they wouldn’t go to 3 years on him.

As for leadership, ARod is the best player in baseball. Check for how he plays on the field. The guy busts his butt in the offseason and is always in phenomenal shape, check for setting an example in how he prepares.

Your first sentence is a non-sequitor. The rest of that is not anything new. Just a repetition of your propaganda. Hey, bring something new to the table. You’re just the pot calling the kettle black.

Ever hear the saying numbers don’t lie? Well they don’t lie in the case of A-Rod or Lowell or Jeter when it comes to clutchness in the postseason.

What about Lowell’s 2003 playoffs? Of course you count it in with all his other postseason experience. Just like you do with A-Rod. You don’t pick and choose like the A-Rod fan boys want to do. As I’ve always said about clutchness, you need to look at the entire postseason record for a player.

So when you do that, Lowell’s production is better than A-Rod’s. It’s evidence that he ‘s more clutch.

And why are you looking at career numbers? When a GM gives out a contract, he gives it out based on what he projects a player to do. Not what a player did in the past.. That makes no sense. Players are paid according to what they will do and if a GM is smart he will obtain a contract that is equivalent to what other players of equivalent projected production are getting. So the point about Beltran is that on his current contract vs. A-Rod’s just recently ended contract, Beltran was immensely more cost efficient in 2 out of the last 4 years. That’s my point. And the stats support my point perfectly.

If you want to make a different point, fine, but then don’t try to shoehorn it into my point.

A-Rod may have been doing it longer than many others, but he sure hasn’t been doint it at a very cost effective rate since he signed his contract with Texas.

I don’t care if he has been one of the best players in history. He’s certgainly not worth almost twice what Beltran gets. Or much more than what Manny gets. If you want to overpay, that’s your choice. We’ll agree to disagree on how wise that is.

I’m just glad that the Wilpons are not going to make the poor decision to overpay him like Boras wants. Let the Giants or Dodger do that if they want. Let them sign him to an albatross of a contract. Omar and the Wilpons are too smart to be hoodwinked by Boras.

Ever hear of the expression .. there are lies, damn lies and statistics?

See .. you can continue to point to any one sample of statistics and say whatever you want:

Lowell is clutch because what he did in 2007 playoffs.. but what about the 2003 playoffs?

Betran has outperfromed Arod in 2 of his last 4 years at 65% of the cost .. But Betrans Career OPS+ is lower than Arod’s WORST OPS+ Year (1997).

Your point is using statisitcs is to manipulate them in small samples to make a point.

ARod has been getting it done on a historic level for 13 plus years.. consistently. year in and year out delivering big numbers.

So he brings little else to the table besides his offense? Well … his offensive performance is on a level makes him one of the best performers in the game today and arguably one of the top ten offensive players in history.

Ill take that on my team any day/ Thats simple.

My reference to the poll wasn’t even a critical point. You just didn’t understand where the point about A-Rod paying for himself was coming from. So I used the poll to refer to the portion of Mets fans who want A-Rod to refer to the source. It is they, along with Boras who are bringing up this point!

Lowell’s postseason stats show he is more clutch than A-Rod. Being clutch doesn’t mean you are going to hit in every postseason series. Just because Jeter had a bad ’07 postseason (as did A-Rod) doesn’t negate all his other postseasons. Why would you think that?

And, no. I am not referring to Lowell’s regular season stats to call him clutch. Just his performance in this year’s postseason. There is no cherry picking going on here. I’m being consistent in using a player’s entire postseason history as a way to gauge whether a player is clutch or not (in the absence of a better body of metrics). I’ve never veered from this position.

As for a player being traded, what does that have to do with clutchness, lol? Any attempt by anyone to make any inference of clutchness from a mere trade is out of their mind.

You also have missed the point with my Beltran comparison. It’s not about comparing their entire careers. It’s about comparing their output relative to what they are being paid. In two of the last 4 years, Beltran has had a better year, yet he made just 65% of what A-Rod did and he plays a premier defensive position exceptionally well (so he brings defensive value that A-Rod doesn’t have). Moreover, given their relative ages, any gap- in their offensive production is likely to narrow.

You should also know that neither 2004 or 2006 were A-Rod’s worst years. His worst year was in 1997.

And again. You completely misread this sentence of mine: “…he brings so little else to the table except some negatives.” It means little else apart from the offense! Get it? I am not saying he doesn’t bring offense to the table. I’m saying he brings little else besides that. If you think he brings more than just the offense, I’d like to know what it is.

BTW, if you want me to dig up an old link to a prior discussion where I’ve laid out my beliefs regarding clutchness as proof, just let me know. I’ll do it.

As for comparing 2 players head to head during the same time period I don’t see any better stat than OPS+. If you think there’s a better one, fine, we’ll use it. Just tell me why you think it is more valid than OPS+ (which by the way they don’t even give for postseason games).

Of course I know where ’04 and ’06 rate in A-Rod’s seasons. But that is irrelevant to my point which was that in 2 out the last 4 years Beltran had better performances. What you fail to note also is that A-Rod is 3-4 years older than Beltran so over the next 5-6 years I expect any gap between the two in terms of offensive production to narrow. And Beltran still brings value as a gold glover in a premier defensive position that A-Rod doesn’t. IOW, the difference in value between A-Rod and Beltran over the next 5-6 years is NOT 90-100%. Yet that’s how much more A-Rod will be paid if he becomes a Met.

And no, to say he is average at best is accurate. It’s fact (according to fielding metrics). He may have a stronger and more accurate arm than Wright, but in terms of range and fielding OOZ balls he’s inferior. Wright simply gets to and fields more balls than A-Rod does.

Wright had just 5 more throwing errors than A-Rod the whole season. Yet he fielded around 40 more out of zone balls than A-Rod did. Clearly, by these metrics Wright is the superior fielder at third.

And Lowell is “Clutch”? was he clutch in 2003 with FLA when he hit just above 200 in the post season? was he clutch in Florida when the Marlins practically GAVE him away to get him off the roster? He had a good year in his contract year and all of a sudden he becomes your definition of “Clutch” – more cherry picking.

You conveniently compare Arods WORST year to betran’s BEST year.. again.. AROD worst year is FAR AND AWAY better than most other players in the league can aver aspire to. The guy has a CAREER OPS+ of 147 for chissakes.

To say he brings so little ELSE to the table but some negatives make you sound like a complete kook.