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In the New York Post, citing ‘an executive familiar with the team’s thinking,’ Joel Sherman writes that the Devil Rays may entertain offers for LHP Scott 
Kazmir, depending on how the market develops for Johan Santana.
…first off, i vowed to stop taking the bait on d’rays rumors years ago, after they sat on Aubrey Huff and Danys Baez…that being said, good god…could you imagine if the Mets ever re-acquired kazmir…and he got hurt, or stumbled or fell apart, etc…it’s not a reason to deny a trade, but it’s certainly a reason to hesitate…i mean, they’re finally at a point in which we never mention his name, and then bam, here we go again…
Kazmir is eligible for arbitration for the first time this off season, and is eligible to be a free agent after 2010.
In three seasons with the last-place Rays, Kazmir is 33–26 with a 3.53 ERA while striking out 576 hitters through 537 innings.
…damn, he really is good…i try to just ignore him, but those numbers are reallly, really hard to ignore…ugh…
According to Sherman, the Rays would want ‘multiple high-end pitchers,’ and so he writes…
“There is a lot of buzz that the Giants would consider moving Tim Lincecum…Interestingly, Lincecum is just the type of young, talented, controllable pitcher Tampa is pursuing, and the Rays have a boatload of young positional talent. The Rays have essentially made only B.J. Upton, whom they perceive as a top-flight center fielder for years, an untouchable. That means players such as Carl Crawford and Delmon Young could be had in the right deal.”
…so, if this is the case, i think this hilarious, painful talk of the Mets re-acquiring kazmir should come to an immediate halt, because the Mets clearly do not have the chips to acquire him, not by a long-shot…
Kazmir & Crawford for Pelfrey, Humber, Mulvey, Milledge, Gomez & FMArt.
Milledge, Gomez, and F-Mart have zero value to the D-Rays. They already have a ton of position talent. They need arms.
Why would TB trade young pitching for young pitching? What is the point?
It’s not so much young pitching for young pitching, but rather young expensive pitching for young cheap pitching. Kazmir is about to be eligible for arbitration, and will be very expensive for the Rays. With free agency not too far off either, they definitely won’t be able to afford him then. They would want young high end pitching that they can control and afford for a while.
good point, thanks
I hate that there are still teams operating in this mode. Why are they even in existance if every time they get a start player they unload him once he htis arbitration eligibility?
Either sell the team, or move it if the area won’t support it.
he isn’t going to get that much in arb year 1. It’s not like he is a FA and they have to worry about matching a Zito like contract.
Michael Lewis, author of “Money Ball” and a columnist for Bloomberg News, wrote an excellent commentary on the baseball luxury tax for the New York Times. Many of the poorest teams don’t invest the money they receive from the likes of the Yankees and Red Sox in the on-the-field product. An excerpt:
“The problem is that the teams receiving payments have come to use them as a primary source of income — rather than to build winning teams. The most extreme example has been the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. In 2006, this team had a payroll of about $35 million, $42 million less than the 2006 league average. Not surprisingly, it won only 38 percent of its games and filled less than 40 percent of its seats for home games. It also collected more than $30 million in revenue-sharing transfers. This past season, the team reduced its payroll to $24 million and had about the same level of success.”
He goes on to suggest a solution. It’s worth a read.
Why would Tampa trade Kazmir for Lincecum? Wouldn’t that defeat the idea of them acquiring more pitching? I think the idea would be for them to acquire Lincecum to pair with Kazmir. The Rays are so deep with position players that they would be able to snag him.
Rays would be serious players if they could get Lincecum to pair with Kazmir.
This Kazmir “buzz” has already topped the Lincecum “rumor” as the dumbest conjecture of the offseason.
I suppose tomorrow there will be a report that the Braves are trading Chipper Jones and John Smoltz to the Mets for Willie Collazo.
It’s true … I heard it straight from the vice-president of a furniture company based in Atlanta (i.e., “an executive close to the Braves”).
I’d love to think that the speculation won’t happen, but I wouldn’t hold your breath, Matt. For the Mets to get in on this, they would have to overwhelm the Rays. A starting point might be Gotay (b/c they need a 2B); 2 of Pelfrey, Humber, Heilman, Smith, Kunz, Mulvey; and 1 of Milledge, Gomez, Martinez (they’re already overrun with OFs, so they might want 3 of the list of pitchers above). The Mets might be able to get back an interesting retread like Edwin Jackson, whose star has fallen a great deal, but who’s still only 23.
Even at that price – or possibly one higher (not sure what that might be) – I think the Mets ought to be interested. I mean, Kazmir has dominated the best hitters’ division in the majors at age 23. Imagine how much better he would be in the pitcher-friendly NL East.
I’d definitely be tempted to do a deal like this, even though it would effectively decimate our farm system.
I bet the Yankees are salivating at the thought of sticking it to the Mets by acquiring the biggest sore spot in their recent history!
But wouldn’t it be nice if the Yankees unload the cupboard for him, and he proceded to blow out his arm (as the Mets erroneously thought he would!)
I haven’t really seen him pitch, but does he really have one of those arm about to fall off pitching motions that would lead you to think he is an injury waiting to happen?
Let’s just hope that Perez puts it all together, since he has just as much talent and is capable of putting up the same numbers as kazmir (and frankly, probably was pretty close), he just has a few melt-downs thrown in from time to time.
i dont wish that Kazmir blows out his arm!! That was managements fault for trading him in the first place! I dont agree that OP is as good as Kazmir either. OP only throws 91 or 92 most of the time whereas Kazmir throws 97-98 most of the time but they both have really good sliders! i would love to see him back with the Mets though
True, but a Yankee package would almost certainly have to include Cano and probably two of the starters they have penciled in for their rotation next year (Hughes + Chamberlain/Kennedy?). If they aren’t able to re-sign A-Rod, they’d be creating more holes – an additional starter, a 2B – that they’d have even more trouble filling (with prospects gone for Kazmir, how do you trade for a 3B? Who do you sign in this weak SP market?). I’m pretty sure they could make it happen, but it would do far more damage to their current ML roster than you might think. (And, more damage to the ML roster than it would for the Mets, who’d be giving up [in this admittedly fantasy scenario] only one or maybe two guys they are relying on as starters next year.)
Actually, they already have Iwamura working out at 2B over the winter in preparation for Longoria coming up next season…I just don’t see the mets having the young pitching to get this done. As was pointed out earlier, the Rays would want several mlb-ready, high-ceiling pitchers with little or no service time in return, and we just don’t have that. The closest we could come would be something like Pelfry, Humber and Mulvey, and they could probably do better elsewhere.
Didn’t know that about Iwamura – thanks for the info. I wonder if his defense is good enough; he put up ok offensive numbers this season, but I’d imagine the Rays wouldn’t mind an upgrade (though I’m not certain Gotay would be one).
I’d agree that it’s a long shot for the Mets, but a core of Kazmir, Maine, and Perez for the next five years would be *really* nice.
Eva Longoria is really not built like a second baseman.
The Angels are rumored to be looking for a bat if they lose out on A-Rod and may trade Ervin Santana…Hows bout we pay 6-8 million of Delgado’s salary for Santana stright up?
I emailed this to my friend last Friday. Obviously I think it’s a great idea, and one the Angels should definitely be interested in.
works for me.
I bet they could find someone interesting to play 1B, even if they don’t get Rodriquez.
I’m interested for two reasons:
1. Obviously Kazmir fills a glaring need
2. There almost would be some form of demonic exorcism that would take place in righting the wrong that was done years ago with the Kazmir trade.
I’d be open to dealing a number of pitching prospects for him as well as taking back some unwanted salary.
I don’t think it can happen … but I can keep some hope.
Kazmir is not a 20 game winner and although he is mostly healthy, there have been some hiccups there. He will not draw nor should he draw the same level or degree of prospects that Santana would. Santana is a cy young pitcher. Kazmir is short of that though he is very very good. I’d imagine that he would draw on big pitching prospect and one big relief pitcher (ML or ML ready). Possible with some organizational filler to surround the deal.
For us that would mean a Pelfrey or Humber plus either a Heilman or Joe Smith and perhaps a Gotay. That deal is good for both sides but not anywhere near the deal it would take to bring back Santana from the Twins.
I would not trade a current ML starter on our team for him. Meaning no Maine or Perez for Kazmir. But I could see doing that in a deal for Santana. I guess my point is Kazmir still has questions about hit elite ACE LEVEL STATUS, that Santana does not. Hence, you would pay more for that certainty.
Kazmirs stats and Maine stats as Pros are not that dissimilar through 1.5 seasons of their career
you wouldnt trade Maine or Perez for Kazmir straight up??? huh…Kazmir will turn 24 in January/08 and led the AL in strikeouts with 239! After they changed his mechanics, he went 8-3 2.39 era in the second half!! i would take Kazmir over Maine, Perez or Santana any day of the week. Perez and Maine havent shown consistently that they can dominate every start and they are 2 or 3 years older than Kazmir!
Stop showing your skirt here. Strikeouts do not a pitcher make. Take a look at Perez and Maine’s Batting Avg against, their WHIP and their ERA’s. All scary close to what Kazmir has produced. Also, read a bit more closely as I suggested I would not include them in a package for Kazmir as I would in a package for Santana.
I realize Kazmir is thought of highly and he should be. But don’t discount what is here in Maine in Perez. And no, I would not trade OP or Maine in a deal for Kazmir. I would likely trade one straight up for the other but not in a package. See above post.
No Maine plus Gotay and Heilman for Kazmir type deal. It it were Maine for Kazmir, I’d probably do it. But not Maine or OP plus. That was my point
yes their (Perez/Maine) BAA (batting average against) might have been better than Kazmir but they dont face the Yankees, Red Sox,Indians and the rest of AL lineups!! As far strikeouts not making a pitcher, i would take a power pitcher over a finesse pitcher every time! ie. Josh Beckett
We don’t have the chips to get him?
You mean Juan Padilla wouldn’t get it done? :-/
I think Victor Zambrano is a free-agent. What if we signed him, then traded him for Kazmir, straight-up.
oh wait, I forgot, Jim Duquette isn’t the Devil Rays GM.
Seriously though, why don’t we trade for Kazmir and then see if we can entice Nolan Ryan to come out of retirement, to exorcise the demons of 2 of the 5 worst trades in MLB history.
You are forgetting about Seaver too. Why O Why does the name Kazmir haunts me? just when are started to get over you, you suddenly waltz back into back life. DAMMIT
If we trade Delgado, it does open up a spot at 1st, but Santana is young, the whole Peterson thing, which I wont say haha but its a pretty good deal, no matter what we do were gonna pay a bunch of Delgado’s contract, and Santana can rebound from a crappy year and the Angels get a bat and Delgado can DH from time to time, they dont have to give up Kotchmen who is their insurence policy and opens up the roster for us
Reyes, Pelfrey, and Heilman for Crawford and Kazmir, then sign A-Rod for SS…..Crawford is so so so much better than Reyes leading off….Put Crawford in right field, and spell alou with endy/marlon…….Trade Milledge and Humber for Lincecum….Bammm!
If Crawford is so much better than Reyes leading off, why did they have identical OBP numbers last year (even with Reyes’ awful slump in September)?
lineup would then be: crawford, beltran, wright, arod, alou, delgado, catcher, easley, pitcher……of course im against signing castillo, who looks aged…..
rotation: pedro, maine, kazmir, o.p., the duke…..make lincecum your joba chamberlain set up man for billy…..
The Rays would spit their soda all over their desks if we called them with this offer then piss themselves on the floor from laughing so damn hard.
oh man, I would love to have Kazmir. He’s a young strikeout pitcher who should only get better. If he’s been putting up those numbers against the AL East, imagine how he’d do in the NL. He’s been pretty healthy and, pitching over 200 innings for the first time last year, he actually got better in the second half of the season and september was his best month. Unlike our guys, he clearly didn’t tire at the end of the season and that bodes well for his ability to eat innnings, which is somethings the mets need,
because i got sick and tired of watching our lead off man swing for flushing and pop out and not change a damn thing……Deal him while you can, i LOVE reyes, but Id love a W.S. more and dealing him gives you a better chance at that….crawford hit for better average and power, in addition to that same OBP, thus having a better year than reyes…..
Yes, Crawford hit better for average and power last year, but Reyes is still just 24. Whose to say that Reyes won’t outperform Crawford next season? Plus, he plays a key defensive position (SS) quite well whereas Crawford plays right field (not a key defensive position). Look, the point is, to say Crawford is “so so so much better” than Reyes is ludicrous.
NEVER tradr Reyes!!! Period!! If you are a real Mets fan that is the dumbest thing you could ever say. If we get AROD we will move Wright to 1st, and trade Delgado for a young arm and eat at least 6mill of his contract left. I think the Angels deal makes sense ..Id be up 4 that if we had Arod in the bag 1st…..either way I think Arod is not coming back to NY(either team) we will prob bring back the same exact team as last year , except the pitching staff….though I must admit the idea of getting Crawford is nice, but we cant offer them enough.
If Scott Kazmir gets hurt, Rick Peterson can fix him in five minutes.
Why never trade reyes…..That kind of thinking is what gets you NOWHERE in this game…..Reyes is just a ball player, not a family member, and yes he came up with us, but so did Kazmir, and id rather have Kazmir back in the family and if it means saying goodbye to reyes its a sacrifice im willing to make, especially to return the greatest player alive to SS……Believe me, Reyes does not give a damn bout you or me or any of us….I like the guy, but if trading him will help my team NOT have the greatest collapse ever, and GET a W.S. championship, then sorry but enjoy florida…..
Kazmir is good, but Reyes is a rare talent. Ever notice how most of the good young offensive SS get moved out of SS? Reyes is a SS and belongs there. Trading Reyes for Kazmir would be dumber than dealing Kazmir for Victor Zambrano
How is Reyes a special talent???? dont believe the hype!!
Saying “we dont have enough chips” is foolish…..We have more than enough of anything, its just a matter of what you are willing to give up….Thats why its called a trade…..You dont just give up nothing and get the best thing, you do have to sacrifice, its just a matter of what you perceive is the better pickup for you, which in my opinion, a dominant pitcher and equivalent hitting lead off man is more than worth it for reyes and heilman……reyes is perceived as being better than he actually is…..now is the chance to capitalize on that…..
your foolish, you think having Kazmir is better then Reyes?? Then who leads off for us?? And we cannot make as good an offer for Crawford as other teams …TB needs pitching..and Pelf and Humber are not ranked nearly as high as some other teams putching prospects..the Giants could give them Lincecum for Crawford in a heartbeat and make any of our offers look weak…Get your head out of your butt and start making sense…trade Reyes?? Id rather trade you as a Mets fan.
Which would have helped us win the division last year? A) A few more stolen bases B) Great pitching…..
My thoughts on off season moves,
1) Trade Pelfrey, Humber, Gotay (their desperate for infielders), and maybe Muniz for Kazmir.
2) Move Wright to 1st pick up A-Rod.
3) Turn around and trade Gomez and Gado to Anaheim for Ervin Santana, and Scott Shields.
4) Resign Castillo
5) Sign Torrealba
This sets up
Lineup
1) Reyes SS
2) Castillo 2b
3) Wright 1b
4) A-Rod 3b
5) Beltran CF
6) Alou LF
7) Milledge RF
8) Catcher (Castro, Torrealba platoon)
9) Pitcher
Bench
Endy
Anderson
Easley
Hernandez
1 Catcher Castro or Torrealba
Rotation
1) Pedro
2) Kazmir
3) Maine
4) Perez
5) Santana
Bullpen
Sanchez
Heilman
Feliciano
Shields
Wagner
El Duque
Sosa
Backups in AAA
Kunz
Smith
Blowta
Now if thats not an amazing team I dont know what is. Sure it weakens our farm but it’s a core that will be good if not great for years.
Wrong Santana
Problem, where is the lefty/righty balance? I understand Delgado should be moved if we find a taker, but this lineup would be without any lefty punch. And no, Beltran doesn’t count. Plus, why would you bat him 5th? He’s more a #2 than a #5 hitter. Semantics, I know but you have to keep these things in perspective.
I agree it is a little right heavy. But first your wrong Beltran certainly does count. He bats lefty 75% of the time and gets 2/3 of his home runs from the left side. Plus with the bench you have 2 lefties in anderson and chavez on the bench who will get a ton of time due to injuries in alou. Plus Wright, ARod and Alou have no trouble against rhp. Wright .311 BA 19 HR, 72 rbi’s, .404 OBP. ARod batted much better against rightys posting a .327 BA, 47 HR, 131rbi’s, and a .419 OBP. Alou .335 BA, 9 HR, 36rbi’s, and a .368 OBP. With those stats I think that the lefty righty balance is a little overrated.
Sounds good… I just can’t see the Mets getting Kazmir for Pelfrey, Humber, Gotay and a prospect.
I think it actually is fair. Pelfrey slots in this year, Humber midway through 2008. 2/5 of their rotation plus a middle infielder, all under control and cheap for 2 + years. Not a no-brainer, but it’s in the ballpark
I believe its definitely possible. It’s Scott Kazmir, not Johan Santana. Those are 3-4 good prospects 2 or 3 who will be able to play at the MLB level this coming year. Pelfrey is good who could be great if he develops an off speed pitch, Humber has great potential, and Gotay a switch hitter w/ some power and speed. He might not but be great defensively due to his range but I believe that is something that can be developed with time. Plus Muniz looks like he could be a very good reliever in time. Plus their all cheap. I think that trade would be good for both parties.
No Kazmir, no way- not as long as “Dr. Rick” is here. This is yet another reason why I would have canned Peterson this offseason- because him being around would prevent Kazmir from ever returning to the Mets. Fire him now and hire Mazzone. Rick always takes the credit but never the blame. When the bullpen melted down at the end of the year you could not find Peterson anywhere- no interviews, post game chat, etc. But then when Maine threw that near no-hitter Peterson came out of the woodwork and was doing interviews all over the place! He was all of a sudden very visible. Then the next day, after the collapse, he disappeared again. What a phony. Get him out of here.
To me, the worst part of the collapse is not the collapse in itself- what is much MUCH worse is the fact that nobody has been held accountable for it. The manager should have lost his job..and if not, at the very least the pitching coach and RICKEY HENDERSON should have been canned for God’s sake. As usual the fans are given the finger. This team is dead to me.
Just wait till Kazmir reaches free agency…
The Kazmir to the Mets rumors wil never end…
[...] It’s hard to believe that the free agent market has yet to open — it won’t for another week — yet already the newspapers are reporting “rumors” such as “Rays May Dangle Kazmir” and the bloggers are reporting that “Scott Kazmir is on the Market“. [...]
I wonder if Tampa buys into conventional sports trading wisdom that you don’t trade a player to a team in the same division so as not to have that guy come back to bite you in ass. They might have some young talent but they’ve shown in their brief history that they can’t develop it so you wonder whether it makes a difference to them if they get beat by a former player wearing a division rival’s cap?
People talk about the Yankees could be involved in any number or major moves – either trades or free agents – but I think if there’s one team that holds a lot of chips and are well supported by the owner’s wallet, it’s Boston. If the Sox could swing one of their younger guys (either Lester or Buckholz) and nab Kazmir they could almost write their ticket to next year’s WS.
As for the Mets. assuming the rumor is true, then you’d have to give this some consideration. Even though Kazmir isn’t the pitcher (and might not ever be the pitcher) that Johan is, he’s a good young talent and provides much more cost certainty than Santana.
With Santana you don’t even know if you’ll have him for more than 1 year, but if Kazmir shows promise then you could always lock him up with a decent sized extension and it would still be nowhere near what Santana would cost to prevent him from hitting the open market. A rotation of Pedro-Maine-Perez-Kazmir-El Duque/Injury Fill-In looks pretty good to me. It woud have to be considered at least the best in the NL East.
Additionally, if the Mets feel that cost isn’t an object for 2009 then in the 2008 off-season they might have a shot at landing one of the top end starters.
NOt for nothing…..
I’d much rather trade for a Lincecum, Kazmir or Matt Cain and the guarantee that they will be in our control for a few years….than trade for Santana and deliver our farm system to Minn for the “hope” that he resigns.
The risk we took with Benson was worth it as that trade included only Matt Peterson who eventually flamed out as a prospect. This deal would be bigger and would require we had Santana signed to an extension before the deal was finished and complete.
To a lesser extent, I’d include Blanton in the above group of controllable young pitchers I’d prefer to trade for.
Santana would be terrific but I am not sure I want to deliver our entire farm system for him (even if he did sign an extension as part of the deal). Especially if he got more than 5 years on his deal
i agree totally on this one!!
“An executive familiar with Tampa’s thinking”
This is pure speculation by somebody that is not even in the Rays front office and is being blown out of proportion by Joel Sherman because he had nothing better to write about and he loves when people talk about him.
Kid K is NOT available…sorry