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In a recent update to SI.com, Jon Heyman lists the Mets among three teams that appear to have ‘moved up’ in the ‘race’ for Alex Rodriguez.
According to Heyman, Mets GM Omar Minaya recently told ESPN 1050 that he has already talked to David Wright and Jose Reyes, “apparently telling them that while he loves them there are no guarantees that they’ll remain at their respective positions.”
…heyman actually co-hosted the ESPN 1050 show that minaya was a guest on, so he would know the context of the comments…this is an interesting story, but what’s sad is that i actually thought i’d get through the day without linking to an a-rod rumor…damn…so close…
Heyman also notes that SNY’s Lee Mazzilli could join Larry Bowa and Don Mattingly on the Dodgers bench alongside Joe Torre.
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Nice spin by Heyman. I heard that interview. It was notable for not saying anything much. Omar wouldn’t commit one way or the other on the A-Rod issue, and McEnroe and Heyman must have prodded him 2 or 3 times. Omar basically said the same thing he’s been saying for years — that no player on the Mets is untouchable or immovable.
Heyman’s spin is pure speculation and as proof he even lists the Yankees in the top 3 of those having moved up. Fat chance. They are out of it, unless A-Rod comes crawling on his knees back to them and agrees to give up that money that Texas would have paid to the Yankees.
And Jeffrey Gordon’s piece in the NYT’s was pure nonsense and speculation.
Think about this. I don’t really know If I want AROD yet but I have some thoughts about next seasons roster. How about Reyes, Gotay, Arod, Beltran, Wright (1st Base), Moises Alou/Cliff Floyd Platoon, Milledge, Castro.
I read the whole article and it seems the Mets are the most likely of those 3 teams which would imply they are number 1 in the running for A-rod as of now. The Yankees would have to pony up $350 million assuming he even wants to go back and I don’t think the Tigers will drop that kind of cash even if they have it. The same can be said for the Wilpons but the Mets have more available payroll then the Tigers. I still doubt A-rod will get 30 a year though, Boras isn’t going to let A-rod sit during the season waiting to be signed and I can’t see anyone putting up that kind of cash for him, except the Yankees which he may not want to go back to.
The article isn’t necessarily implying that the Mets are #1 in the A-Rod sweepstakes, but moreso that the Mets, along with the Tigers and Yankees, are moving back up the race to land him. I didn’t hear the ESPN Radio interview, so I can’t speculate myself, but I’d tend to agree that what we’re hearing from Omar isn’t really anything new. This is going to take a while to play out. Gotta love the hot stove.
The mets are not getting A rod.. boras needs us in the papers since A rod himself has alienated the Sox and Yanks..
There are much better ways to spend 30 mill a year then adding another choker to this team.
Well said, but with the lack of quality free agent arms, and the teams looking to deal their young good pitchers asking for prospects and 1st born children….Arod is not a bad option….Im sure if he is on our team we will at least choke in the playoffs and not the last 2 weeks of the season.
It may be tough to swallow given the circumstances, but patience my still be the best option. Sure Omar could go aggressive on the trade market for an arm, but it might be smarter to wait. There are a lot of good arms that GMs are or are likely to soon be willing to talk about. Santana, Sabathia, Bedard, Haren, Kazmir. If the Padres don’t compete Jake Peavy’s name may get floated.
Its going to take a monster package to get any of these guys during the offseason. The first three will be sold as trade and sign candidates (incidentally giving them veto power over trades). Having multiple years left, Haren might be more valuable than even Santana, and Kazmir’s youth/inexperience/health concerns paired with his controlability and inexpensiveness probably make him about as valuable as Santana (in terms of market value). It will take a monster package to get any of these guys during the offseason.
However, if any of the trade and sign candidates aren’t moved, then their current organizations may get desperate to unload them for something more than draft picks, and decide to sell them as rentals. It would still take a big package to get them, but in order to engage more teams they could reduce their price a bit and get some small market contenders in. A crafty big market GM could then swoop in and offer something less than the current (offseason) trade and sign value and something more than other teams are offering for a rental.
Its such a shame, this team has so much money to spend. With Glavine and Green coming off the books thats about $20 million just to get back where they were at the end of the season, which was still significantly below the luxury tax line. Then Delgado, Pedro, and El Duque, and more could come off the books next year. And thats not even to mention all the extra stadium, SNY, and attendance revenue, or the $30 million from MLB.com.
I agree. We are being used all over the place now to get guys deals bigger like Posada and Alex Rodriquez and others. We are not in the hunt likely but are doing Boras a favor with AROD by allowing it to happen without shooting it down
Though I do believe that the chances of getting A-Rod are pretty slim – and I’ll explain why in a second, I think that if it was a definite “no,” Omar would’ve said so. There’s no point of going on the show and giving side-stepping answers if you’re not in the hunt. There are obviously some kind of talks going on.
Now, I gave the A-Rod issue a lot of thought. I’ve posted several comments on this blog on why he makes so much sense to the Mets, both financially and as a player. However, I do believe that in the long run he will not be playing in Shea in 2008. Here’s why: the front office has taken some heat after the year ended, and Omar made a few questionable moves, and failed to pull the trigger for pitching at the All-star break. I think he hasn’t faced too much pressure because the fans like him – he’s a name that I usually see Met fans smile when hearing. The A-Rod signing, which will bring an exiled Yankee to Queens and above all else move the most popular player on the team to a new position, will put Omar in a pretty tight spot. If the Mets don’t make the World Series, he himself could get exiled out off the team – as his popularity will be gone and he will ostracized for this crucial mistake. Now undoubtedly, if the Mets win he’ll be a hero, but something tells me that relying on A-Rod for your playoff chances is not that great of an idea, and perhaps the Wilpons set a budget that will not afford a high profile starter as well as A-Rod this off season.
Perhaps I’m a conspiracy theorist, or perhaps Omar will not put his @ss on the line. Even if he keeps his job, he’ll become the Isaiah Thomas equivalent in NY, and that’s not something he wants to be remembered by.
It’s not the choker aspect, it’s the fact that our offense is fine without him. And I’d rather not move DW just yet. It’s the fact that we could spend that $30m and some prospects to get some DECENT PITCHERS!!!
We dont need decent…we need a #1-#2 type guy….Pedro is not reliable , nor El Duque, who knows what Maine or Perez will do this year..and Pel and Humber ???? geez…..We need AROD this year…and yes we can still make a minor trade like Humber and Gomez for Lowry or Blanton and still win the division…How many HR’s would Arod hit when we go play in Philly next year? He plays everyday not every 5 !!! We grab Arod this year make a strong push for the title ..retain all our young studs and sign 2 top FA pitchers next year….Let Castillo walk….move Wright to 2nd ….Let Millz start in RF and trade for Lowry.
Reyes
Wright
Beltran
AROD
Delgado
Alou
LoDuca
Milledge
Pedro
Perez
Maine
Blanton/Lowry
Pelf/Humber/DuQue
Not too bad??? But probably not a reality…either way Im still gonna be a Mets fan for life..lets go Mets!!!
The offense could always get better. Just in our division, the Phillies have a better offense (in their bandbox of a stadium), the Braves are young and loaded, and the Marlins aren’t that far behind. AROD puts us definitively over the top going forward, whereas otherwise, we’re looking at the final year for Alou & Delgado and a barren farm system based mostly on hype and prayers.
So, maybe just looking one year ahead, the pitching certainly seems a more dire situation, but the pitching more than the offense helped maintain the division lead for most of the season in 2007. The hitting coach even lost his job mid-season. Reyes was hot early then tailed. Wright was ice cold early and got hotter as the season went along. Beltran was up and down as well as hurt. Alou missed more time than he suited up for. Delgado was a mere shadow of his former self and also was hurt. 2B, RF and C were average offensive threats for the season at best, and often were below average. Just because the Mets offense turned it up the last 2 months doesn’t mean it’s not a problem and can’t use some significant upgrading.
I agree 100%. I am now becoming in favor of going after A-Rod. Just don’t want to see Wright or Reyes moved. If we are going to pay him 30 million then teach him 2nd or 1st base and lets see Sports Illustrated revisit that story of “best infield ever”
Thank you! I don’t understand why everyone wants to move Wright- he’s a better 3rd baseman than A-Rod. If A-Rod comes here he should play first and Delgado should go- every other scenario is retarded.
While I think moving Wright to 1b will work very well…
It would be great if ARod would say I will go to first. Either that, or he takes less money… the fans will be happy
Wright is not even close to A-Rod in defense at 3B. Wright can stop the ball, but he clearly cannot make the throw. A-Rod has a cannon for an arm…..
DWright is a 1B waiting to happen…..think KYouklis!!
You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about, if you think ARod is a better 3B than Wright. The numbers have been broken down repeatedly on this site. At this point, and going forward, Wright is the better defensive 3B. Besides, Mex was ARod’s idol growing up, why wouldn’t he want to play first???
I think we have a bogus offense. We were so poor with RISP and two outs. Good hitters come through in those spots. Stats can be very misleading.
Personally im kind of torned on the A-Rod situation. If i were Minaya, my offer would not exceed 6 years and 180 and thats pushing it. What we really need is an upgrade in pitching via trade, but only for an ace bc our prospects are worth more than the mediocore #4’s avaliable. Hopefully someone in the lines of a Johan, Haren, Oswalt although there is no way Oswalt is dealt. As far as the position changes if A-Rod were acquired.. I would not move Reyes, trade Delgado and move Wright to first if possible. Dont expect much in return for Delgado and the only way to move him is if we eat some salary. We need to concentrate on 2nd base, catcher, and a bullpen arm. Resign Castillo and LoDuca unless we can get Posada at a reasonable 3 year deal. I Love A-Rod’s numbers, but having him around into his 40’s can not happen. I would get Carl Crawford, he would be perfect in NY, put him at the top of the lineup with Reyes, that would by dynamic
And what are the Mets’ best chips for pitching?
Wright
Reyes
Now, were they to trade Wright, they’d have a mutiny on their hands. Had Reyes performed a bit better down the stretch, ditto for him. The sad fact is, however, that the Mets do not have the chips needed to make a serious play for the Santanas of the world without losing a Wright or Reyes. I am NOT saying they should do it — in fact, I think it would be dumb to give up Wright for virtually anyone, especially an unsigned pitcher, and I’d prefer to keep Reyes, too — but if they want to upgrade the pitching, they are going to have to take a serious hit. I’m not sure Milledge, F-Mart, and the lot are far enough along. If the Giants are trading Lincecum (and I’m not sure why they would, but OK), they’re going to want major leaguers in return.
The fact of the matter is when a team signs A-Rod for the absurd amount of money he will command, it deeply limits the future signings that otherwise can be made. For us, if we happen to sign A-Rod, that means throwing away any ideas of getting a top rate pitcher.
But the most important issue of all here would be the impending displacement of one of the the franchise’s cornerstones. That in itself, should make any Mets fan weary of bringing A-Rod aboard.
Word to the wise — Do not fix what is not broken.
We already have two young All-Stars playing 3B & SS …
Let’s spend the time, money, and energy into thinking of possible pitching solutions instead.
Signging A-Rod in no way financially limits what they can do down the road. The Mets are flooded with cash. The Mets are just about the only that don’t have to be overly concerned with the financial rescourse they would have to committ to sign A-Rod. Next season Pedro’s contract comes off the books as does Delgado. That $30 million right there next season. The Mets can absolutely afford to sign A-Rod.
Boras is right in that in the NYC market, with a new stadium a year away, 10 million dollars a season for the naming rights of the stadium, and a regional sports network in the top market in the country, the worst the Wilpons could do is break even with A-Rod’s contract . From a business perspective the Mets have much more to gain than they have to lose with A-Rod. It’s actually a prudent move to make if they are looking to expand the brand. You have to spend money to make money.
Correct. A-Rod carried the Yankers this year. He will vastly improve our lineup.
Pitching
cannot
be
had
for
money
this
year.
20 million a year for the naming rights
And, if the Mets sign A-Rod, they’d save $10 million on Delgado (Marlins kept $4 million of 2008, and Mets can eat $2 million), $12 million on Glavine and about $7 million on Shawn Green. So, if they’re willing to step up on A-Rod, they could put this other money towards a pitcher. But, given what’s on the FA market, it looks like they’ll have to try for a #3 type starter in a trade. And Delgado could be some bait there. I think he has more value than some folks think: Last year, he followed up his offseason surgery with a horrible start, had some nagging injuries, and still hit 25 HR. Until then, he was a perennial 30 + HR guy, including 38 in 2006. So, at $10 million, he offers some real upside power to a team that needs it.
But 2B and 1B ARE broken, and with A-rod they would become fixed.
So given that lack of endorsement one could surmise that Omar and Fred have something up their sleeves..
I heard the interview. In fact Omar did say these things but perhaps not in those exact words. But it’s nothing new. He says the same thing all the time — ie, “we love player xyz … he is the core of our club and part of our future … having said that I will say the same thing I’ve always said about our players and that is no one is untouchable. But I can say as of this moment we have no plans to move or trade player xyz.”
That’s pretty much what Omar said to Heyman and McEnroe. If you didn’t hear the interview then don’t go around speculating about what Omar did or didn’t say. And Heyman’s piece was spin.
IMO, there are no frontrunners in the A-Rod sweepstakes right now. Just a lot of teams kicking the tires to see what’s what. And just a lot of bluster from Boras.
There is a report today, however, that said A-Rod would love to play for Boston because of the chance to win multiple rings. But Luchino has already thrown cold water on the idea his team might pursue A-Rod.
AFAIK, there have been no rumors/reports saying A-Rod would love to play for the Mets right now.
I didnt hear the interview but
did he say anything close to shutting the door on getting Arod like Luchino & Cashman have?
Clearly two of teams with the financial resources and baseball reasons to be in the chase.
Or was he quoted like Pinella of the Cubs saying “His name hasn’t ever come up. I don’t think there’s anything there.”
Of course everyone is kicking the tires.. The only team that can talk for real right now is the Yankees – who have clearly opted out.. This thread is all about ranking the favorites like in a horse race.
You must admit that Omar has left the door wide open.
and currently look to be the “favorites”
No, Omar did not shut the door. He didn’t open it either. He was totally non-committal and vague. He has gotten better at saying a lot about nothing lately. As I recall, when he first became GM of the Mets he wouldn’t be so circumspect.
Heyman is not even ranking the teams in his report. He says he’s merely listing 3 teams who “appeared” to move up in the race. Which means he’s admitting he’s speculating himself.
It’s anyone’s guess if any team at all is in the lead. And then there are two issues here — which team is best positioned to bid for him AND which teams does A-Rod have a preference for.
There have been reports from some close to A-Rod that 1) he wants to go back to the Yankees, even if they don’t want him back and 2) he wants to go to the Red Sox even though they’ve already expressed disinterest.
I’ve also heard where he may want to stay in the AL.
So even if the Mets are best positioned to go after him among the remaining candidates it’s unclear whether 1) the Wilpons are willing to spend the money on him and 2) whether A-Rod even has the Mets high on his wishlist.
For these reasons, I would not list the Mets as a leading candidate. Maybe in some fans’ minds.
Once again I totally agree, VCarver.
I have no idea where anyone is getting the impression that the Mets appear to be the favorites. Sure, there certainly seems to be a lot of rumor, innuendo, suppositions and assumptions swirling around the Mets, but that is mostly coming from people who are paid to speculate. I haven’t seen any indication that the Mets are the frontrunners in the A-Rod race just a lot of people discussing whether the Mets are going to aggressively pursue him.
Omar’s refusal to emphatically state that the Mets are NOT interested in no way indicates that they are somehow the favorites to get A-Rod.
I have no idea where anyone is getting the impression that the Mets appear to be the favorites.
Wishful thinking.
Some fans are either so desperate for big changes or are so enamored of A-Rod that they are willing to create their own realities.
Omar’s refusal to emphatically state that the Mets are NOT interested in no way indicates that they are somehow the favorites to get A-Rod.
NO one says that SOLELY his refusal to emphatically rule out ARod MEANS they are the favorite.
But his refusal to categorically rule out Arod – like other have clearly done – is curious at best.
It is also curious that given he has a young player signed to a long term contract who is the poster boy for the franchise and played the same position last year he has not emphatically ruled out adding Arod..
there are other reasons for thinking the fit is right that are clearly enumerated above.
I haven’t seen any indication that the Mets are the frontrunners in the A-Rod race just a lot of people discussing whether the Mets are going to aggressively pursue him.
And a lot of indications that others with the financial wherewithal to be involved (Cubs, Red Sox, Yankees) are clearly opting out.
LOL, just because Pinella hasn’t heard anything doesn’t mean the Cubs are out. Pinella is NOT the GM and he doesn’t own the club.
Just because 2 clubs with the resources have expressed disinterest does not mean the Mets are the “frontrunners.”
Many believe the Angels are the frontrunners because they seem a natural fit for A-Rod.
Even if you think the fit is right, and Omar and Freddie think the fit is right, there’s no indication that A-Rod thinks it is. Didn’t he rule out the Mets once before in 2004?
If A-Rod does not want to sign with the Mets, then they are not the frontrunners in his mind.
And even if Omar has not dismissed the idea of going after -Rod, it’s pure speculation to think they will be doing so.
There’s just too many unknowns for anyone to say with any confidence or certainty that there exists any frontrunners.
Do you think the Giants were Zito’s first choice? Boras’ job is to make A-rod money, if the Mets pay him the most it is where he is going, Boras could talk his way out of hell it seems. And isn’t it fairly common knowledge that A-rod has been a lifetime Mets fan? I have my doubts he would say no to the Mets especially if they did have the best offer. But who knows the Mets could decide they don’t want him and not offer a dime, however if they do want him I think they have the ability to get him. With him being a fan and the new stadium coming if he has even offers from 2 teams it seems likely he would choose the Mets if Boras is unable to milk out an extra year or another mil annually from 1 team if such a situation occurs.
LOL, just because Pinella hasn’t heard anything doesn’t mean the Cubs are out. Pinella is NOT the GM and he doesn’t own the club.
he didnt say he hasnt heard anything. he said
“His name hasn’t ever come up. I don’t think there’s anything there.”
And he is only the HIGH PAID manager of the Cubs and a mentor and Friend or Arod.. Why such a negative statement?
Just because 2 clubs with the resources have expressed disinterest does not mean the Mets are the “frontrunners.”
Didnt say that either .. but as the potential suitors fall by the way side it gets “Curiouser and curiouser”
There’s just too many unknowns for anyone to say with any confidence or certainty that there exists any frontrunners.
Of course.. we finally agree.. but everyone is entitled to speculate.. and it seems that the stars are aligning to put the mets in a good position to make the move. .. Dare I say a stronger position than other teams previously considered suitors?
I meant he hasn’t heard anything from the inside in regards to A-Rod and the Cubs. That’s my interpretation of “His name hasn’t ever come up.” Being a high paid manager does not mean he is in the know as to the club’s plans. And if the Cubs have merely expressed interest why would A-Rod tell Pinella? Nothing may be definite. But nothing may have been ruled out either.
And didn’t you use the fact that the Red Sox and Yankees have expressed disinterest to support your belief that the Mets are the frontrunners?
As long as you agree that your view is pure speculation and that nothing in the landscape has significantly changed over the last few days then we are in agreement.
this is all the equivalent of handicapping the Giants / Dallas game this Sunday..
Now in the last few days. . .
Minayas comments are curious
Wrights “Everything is fantastic” TM is curious
Pinellas comments are curious given that he clearly has a long relationship with Arod and he is clearly a significant part of the Cubs decision making structure (more than the average manager id venture to guess – given his success last year, his contract and his stature in the game)
Minaya “talking to wright and reyes” is curious (did he also talk to betran? delgado? milledge?)
Luchino saying no thanks is curious..
So things are getting curious.. Ill say that.
It is the Hot Stove
In the last few days, Omaya’s comments have parroted what he said in the preceding few days. For you to say otherwise when you didn’t even hear them is the curious part.
And where did you get the idea that Pinella is “clearly a significant part of the Cubs decision making structure?” I know of few if any managers who have this role with their teams. Maybe you are also one of the few this year who also thought Willie was responsible for giving Mota a 2-year contract???? Most managers are left in the dark as to a team’s actual course of action until they are needed to make a pitch to someone.
It is not curious for Minaya to talk to any player that has been the subject of speculation in the media. He would do this to reassure the player of their status on the team. No biggie. Other GMs do the same.
Luchino saying no thanks is not curious. If I were Luchino I’d run from A-Rod too.
Speculate all you want Biggie. You seem to love it.
VCarver, I have two things for you.
1) At this point, if the Mets were not in on Arod and were not considering moving one of their core players in one form or another, wouldn’t it have just been easier for everyone involved to just say that the Mets had no interest? By not stating that you are out of it if you truly are, you are setting yourself up to be used by the agent if you are a big market club like the Mets.
2) I don’t think the Angels are the favorites in this “A-Rod Sweepstakes” mainly because they would then need to justify what they are paying their resident superstar, who has put up A-Rod like numbers in his own right. It doesn’t take much to make old Vladdy grumpy, and I can’t imagine that playing alongside A-Rod for a lot less money would make him all that happy. Vladdy is the man in Anaheim.
also.. isn’t Vlad’s contract due to come up in 2009? he signed in 1994
Would The Angels dare risk having two players with 25-30+ million contracts on the books?
1) I don’t think the Mets are formally in. Nor are they formally out. They are kicking the tires like a lot of teams now. By now most teams if not all are well aware of Boras’ smokescreen tactics and will not be babmoozled into thinking there are serious bidders when there are none.
2) If the Angels really thought A-Rod were the one to make a difference for them down the road, do you think they’d let 1 player who only has one year left on his contract change their thinking? I don’t.
obviously meant Vlad the impaler signed in 2004 up there.
I don’t understand your point here. Vladimir Guerrero is not going away anytime soon.
If the one guy you were discussing were someone like WILTON Guerrero I would agree with you. Vladimir means a lot to that team. He is the face of the franchise, is still very productive, and is immensely popular. Of course he’d come into consideration when deciding if you were going to make a run at A-Rod.
Here’s my point. Guerrero has 1 guaranteed year left on his contract. You think he’s going to bitch and moan if the Angels sign A-Rod when he has just that 1 year left. Why? Is he that much of a prima donna? And I thought he was close to Moreno. if so, I’m sure Moreno could convince Guerrero that A-Rod was best for the team. Do you really think Guerrero is more concerned with his salary or the team’s ability to win a ring? If the former, then maybe A-Rod is the perfect fit for the Angels! :smile:
By your logic, then Beltran should bitch and moan if the Mets sign A-Rod right? Because even if he’s slightly less productive offensively than Guerrero, his gold glove defense at a key position makes him at least as valuable as Guerrero overall.
except Betran is signed thru 2011 .. Vlad is due to come up in 2009 for the Halos.. and Im sure he’ll command a decent raise.. of course with his health issues it may not be for a long term deal… another reason to forget about the Angels getting in the “sweepstakes”
exuse me .. Vlad has a 15 mm Club option for 2009 with a 3mm buyout.. but im sure.. given his relationship with Moreno he’ll get extended — still at a good price.
The fact that Beltran is signed through 2011 might make him even more upset to see A-Rod get that money. Because he has fewer options to rectify the situation.
And the fact that Guerrero has health issues is exactly why A-Rod makes a lot of sense for the Angels.
They probably will pick up the club option … unless his health is an issue. In which case they’ll be glad to have A-Rod on board.
you obviously dont follow the Angels very closely.. Vlad is like Moreno’s adopted son.. they are Very very close..
And he’s going to command a pay raise when he comes up for FA.. Maybe not in years comparable to Arod – because of the injury problem – but certainly near the dollars — probably 25 mil .. So in 2 years the Angels will have Arod at 30 mil and Vlad at 25 mil and Moreno standing out on the corner looking for loose change cause be doesnt have a network to drive his revenues.
And as for Betran.. you are really getting confused.. Betran is known as a player who doesnt want to be in the spot light.. he WANTS to be a complementary player.. thats why he went back to the Yanks to sign there for less money..
So i think he’d drive A Rod to the Park everyday in Port St Lucie so the reporters can focus on Arod rather than Carlos.
If Guerrero at 33 has worsening health issues and declining stats, he’ll be grateful to Moreno for giving him what he’s currently making. I don’t think Moreno is going to let his affection for 1 player dictate how he runs his club.
I think it is you who are confused. While Beltran may not want the spotlight, he wants to be paid very very well. That’s why he chose Boras as his agent too.
And Beltran went to the Yankees and offered a discount because they are the Yankees and he said he always wanted to play for them and with his good friend Bernie Williams. He wanted to play for a winner. The Mets were not winners then. So, if anything, he wanted to play where the spotlight was actually brighter.
It appears that A-Rod does not like the spotlight. Because no matter what he says, he shrinks under it way more than Beltran.
I think it is you who are confused. While Beltran may not want the spotlight, he wants to be paid very very well. That’s why he chose Boras as his agent too.
do you REALLY REALLY think Betran is that kind of “trouble maker”? or are you just trying to support your argument?
Beltran, like A Rod, has been a Boras client since the inception of his career.. He’s caught in the Svengali web of Scott Boras World like most of his clients.
And Beltran went to the Yankees and offered a discount because they are the Yankees and he said he always wanted to play for them and with his good friend Bernie Williams. He wanted to play for a winner. The Mets were not winners then. So, if anything, he wanted to play where the spotlight was actually brighter.
this is historically simply not true. He wanted to go the Yankees because he would be one of MANY Superstars.. on the METS he had the added pressure of being THE SUPERSTAR>.
I know you are trying to write the future before it happens with your Arod projections, assumptions and suppositions but don’t re write history.
since we seem to agree that Betran doesnt like the spotlight..
what makes you think that he would either go to the mets management or the press with some sort of ultimatum or statement if the Wilpons committed upwards of 30 million per year to Rodriguez?
He makes an average of 17 mil a year.. thru 2011. at which time.. if he is healthy. he will be up for a raise…
To say that he would do anything but welcome Arod with open arms and make a statement to the affect that he was happy the Wilpons and the Mets were as committed to winning as he is is just not being consistent withthe type of person he is.
Do you think he go to the press and say he feels under paid?
Does he hold out? Or does he pout and wind up on the back pages as Boo Hoo tran?
All not consistent with the type of person and player he has been..im sorry i just dont buy this line of thinking at all..
Do you really really think Guerrero is a troublemaker? Or are you just trying to support your argument?
Not only do I think Beltran would be unhappy, but I think A-Rod’s salary will distort the salaries and demands for everyone else who they want to sign in the future.
And, no. Beltran is different. He ordered Boras to offer a discount to the Yankees. A-Rod would never do such a thing. Varitek is also different.
this is historically simply not true. He wanted to go the Yankees because he would be one of MANY Superstars.. on the METS he had the added pressure of being THE SUPERSTAR>.
LOL, and I suppose Beltran told you this himself? Prove it.
It seems it is you who are trying to rewrite history as well as create the future.
As for Beltran and the spotlight, I don’t really know. I do know that if he really didn’t like it he wouldn’t have tried to play for the Yankees, and he wouldn’t have signed with the Mets. Regardless of whether he likes it or not, he does better under it than A-Rod.
Who said he would go to the press and complain? I just said he would be unhappy. Players show that in many ways.
Any professional would publicly put out a welcome mat for a new teammate. Beltran is a professional. But what he might do in private is a different matter. How he would feel inside is a different matter.
And just like you don’t buy my line of thinking regarding Beltran, I don’t buy yours regarding Guerrero.
Do you really really think Guerrero is a troublemaker? Or are you just trying to support your argument?
actually.. Christian warrior was the one who was pontificating on Guerrero’s attitude.
Not only do I think Beltran would be unhappy, but I think A-Rod’s salary will distort the salaries and demands for everyone else who they want to sign in the future.
Im sure he will distort a lot of salaries in the future regardless of the team he ultimately signs with.
As to Beltran’s dalliances with the Yankees.. we can agree to disagree on the reasons. – but clearly he went back to the yankees and they said no to him for whatever reason…there are some archived NYT Articles about the drama but i dont have access..
all this talk about beltran’s reaction to Arod is purely speculation and not germaine to the discussion.
Great. So I would disagree about Guerrero. Honestly. I think both Beltran and Guerrero would act professionally and not bitch and moan to the media. But both might be disgruntled inside. Not just those 2 but their teammates as well.
Im sure he will distort a lot of salaries in the future regardless of the team he ultimately signs with.
The funny thing is that salaries actually fell shortly after A-Rod (and Manny) signed and that no one since has approached a multi-year contract over $20 million a year.
So whatever distortion there was in the broader marketplace, it seems to have disappeared.
My concern is how it might distort the Mets’ salaries, both in terms of the demands of their own free agents and other free agents they want. I don’t think you’re going to have a very happy clubhouse.
As for Beltran not signing with the Yankees, they would have had to pay 40% in luxury taxes over and above his salary and they apparently felt at the time that he wasn’t worth it.
The NYT’s article are no longer exclusive to subscribers. Anyone can access them.
If Beltran’s reaction is not germaine to the discussion, then neither is Guerrero’s.
we need a big power bat like arod in our lineup, right now the only guy that we could depend on for big power numbers is delgado and hes in decline.
beltran will hit no more than 30 and with guys like ryan howard, mark texiera, miguel cabrera, in our division we could really use arod as a guy to depend on for 40+ hr’s a yr. Arod as a met would be the best christmas ever!
Let’s spend the time, money, and energy into thinking of possible pitching solutions instead.
Unless you think spening 40+ mil for four years of Carlos Sliwa is a solution – or maybe plugging one year of Curt Schiiling into the Tom Glavine Memorial old, crafty veteran who long for the old days and their old teams slot - then the only way to add quality pitching is through trade.
As currently constructed the Mets dont have the chips to get any meaningful pitcher via trade. IF they add a power bat like Arod It frees up MIlledge, Delgado, Pelfrey, Carp, heilman or fill in the prospect here.. to make a move for a decent young starter who can eat some meaningful innings..
.
Well personally, I am not fond of Carlos Silva. Giving a 4th / 5th starter forty million dollars is not what any of us have in mind. However, bringing in Curt Schilling, one of the greatest post-season pitchers of this generation, on a one year contract is something I’d highly consider. That, coupled along with rolling the dice on the likes of Jason Jennings or Freddy Garcia as an incentive based deal might be not the worst thing in the world either. If one of them happens to pan out, it easily becomes classified as another annual Minaya “diamond in the rough” type signing. Especially when these are all just short term players with a high potential ceiling, making under ten million .. I wouldn’t see anything wrong in that.
Curt Schilling, his blog and his bloody sock are most likely going to his first love in Philly or back to the red sox for a victory lap..
I really cant stand to watch another aged pitcher on fumes stumble through the regular season with carious ailments and hope he’s got enough to contribute in the post season — IF we make it to the post season..
And hoping for a diamond in the rough or rolling the dice or finding some spare parts that are not the worst thing in the world is best way to sweat it out in September and end up hoping Willie can figure out how to do a double switch./
not the recipe for success IMHO
No way on Schilling. I don’t care if they bring in A-Rod or not. Schilling is done. Did you happen to notice that he barely throws a BP fastball anymore?
Not to mention that we already have an old guy who we signed because he has a history for being a big game pitcher in the postseason. How has that worked out for us.
Schilling is NOT the answer. Move on…
the worst the Wilpons could do is break even with A-Rod’s contract .
Pure speculation. For once I’d like to see a hard fact that would support this idea that A-Rod would either pay for himself or mean extra revenue.
He could also mean a loss for the Mets if they tie up too much of their payroll in one player.
amen brother.
this “Arod pays for himself” is such a scam started by Boras and getting eaten up by so many.
and I love how if the team makes the playoffs, people account 100% of the playoff money to Arod paying for himself.
I’m sure no other player on the mets roster would have anything to do with the team making the playoffs.
Are you saying that it is unlikely that A-Rod’s mere presence sells tickets? If you are, you’re wrong.
I know that having A-Rod on the team is not going to drag guys like you or I to the ballpark any more than we might already go, but then again you and I wouldn’t be the target audience for a guy like A-Rod now, would we?
A-Rod sells to the youngsters and to the people who don’t know a baseball from a Quaffle, (did I really just type that?!), and to whom A-Rod may be the only guy on the team they have ever heard of. Either way you slice it, A-Rod boosts ticket sales, poster sales, sales of jerseys and other licensed apparel, and possibly even the sales of Met colored edible panties.
And that’s all before he drives in his first run.
Are you saying that it is unlikely that A-Rod’s mere presence sells tickets? If you are, you’re wrong.
How do you know that he will add anything significant to attendance when he didn’t appear to do that in Seattle or Texas? And when everyone is saying Citifield will be sold out anyway for at least the first few years?
It’s just like I posted above.
Whatever team signs A-Rod is not using YOU as their target audience. Of course anything I say about Met ticket sales is pure speculation, I am not privy to their books. And yes, the place will be sold out regardless. But if A-Rod is on the team, the composition of the fans in attendance changes radically. A-Rod is going to bring in the guy who probably wouldn’t ordinarily go to the game, and thus probably wastes more money while he’s there.
And I’m sorry, but A-Rod sells more “stuff”. Period.
You’re still not making sense because:
1) A-Rod has not shown the ability to sell tickets on his own in Seattle or Texas so why would it be any different for casual fans in NY? And casual fans hardly make up the bulk of ticket sales.
2) If the Mets are going to sell out anyway, how would A-Rod make a difference?
3) A-Rod sells more stuff? Is that why in a recent year (2005 or 2006, forgot which one) Wright’s jersey was the biggest seller in NY? Bigger than A-Rod’s? Bigger than Jeter’s?
4) I think Santana would sell more stuff too. And as I’ve been saying I don’t think the Mets can afford both A-Rod and Santana and quality players at other positions without becoming the Evil Empire II.
Your limiting your view to NYC.
1) A-Rod will draw on the road. Of that there is no argument.
2) As I said above, he changes the makeup of the fannies in the seats, not necessarily the number of them.
3) A-Rod’s impact is wider reaching than just NYC. Wright’s isn’t. You will sell way more A-Rod Met jersey’s worldwide than you will Wright ones.
4) Santana is a pipe dream. He will be traded. He will most likely be traded to a team who will be given an opportunity to negotiate with him. And the Mets don’t have the package it would take to make the trade in the first place. Forget him.
I make a little sense.
1) There is no evidence that A-Rod draws on the road. Look at Texas’ and Seattle’s road attendance when he was on the team and you’ll see that. A-Rod while admired by many, is also reviled by many fans more than most superstars are.
2) If he doesn’t change the number of fannies in the seats then he doesn’t represent a significant bump in attendance and hence revenues. I also disagree that he would draw these casual fans the way you say. Again, there is no evidence of this.
3) I disagree. As I mentioned A-Rod has a crappy reputation among fans around the country. I am not the only one who mentions this. It’s been mentioned by many writers over the lats few days. Not only do you have no evidence for your statement, but it runs counter-intuitive to the crappy image A-Rod has as a person.
4) Whether Santana signs with a team that trades for him is totally up to him. Some like you seem to have the misconception that this will not be his call. It will and every indication is that he will unlikely sign an extension with any team and instead opt for free agency.
1) There is no evidence that A-Rod draws on the road. Look at Texas’ and Seattle’s road attendance when he was on the team and you’ll see that. A-Rod while admired by many, is also disliked by many fans more than most superstars are.
2) If he doesn’t change the number of fannies in the seats then he doesn’t represent a significant bump in attendance and hence revenues. I also disagree that he would draw these casual fans the way you say. Again, there is no evidence of this.
3) I disagree. As I mentioned A-Rod has a pretty bad reputation among fans around the country. I am not the only one who mentions this. It’s been mentioned by many writers over the last few days. Not only do you have no evidence for your statement, but it runs counter-intuitive to the poor image A-Rod has as a person.
4) Whether Santana signs with a team that trades for him is totally up to him. Some like you seem to have the misconception that this will not be his call. It will be, and every indication is that he will unlikely sign an extension with any team and instead he’ll opt for free agency.
you can’t give pure facts on the amount of revenue a-rod will bring. though the yes networks ratings have been higher after a-rod’s arrival and the yankees have had higher attendance in every year since he arrived (breaking records in each of a-rod’s 4 years). that’s without winning a world series in 7 years.
attendance
2007: 4.27m+
2006: 4.2 m+
2005: 4.0m+
2004: 3.7m+ (300,000 more than any other year in yankees history for a-rod’s first year)
what else happened during those 4 year to make that dramatic a difference? no championships. no new huge stars besides a-rod. mets are getting better so that would hurt, if anything.
you can’t give pure facts on the amount of revenue a-rod will bring.
How about simply unassailable facts that strongly support the idea that he would pay for himself?
yes networks ratings have been higher after a-rod’s arrival
The network was virtually new when he arrived. Any new network is going to see a rise in ratings from its initial years. SNY ratings have increased since it’s first year too.
the yankees have had higher attendance in every year since he arrived
That might “seem” impressive if not for the fact that their attendance has risen every single year but one since 1994. Their sustained success as well as the fact Yankee Stadium will be demolished soon may have more to do with their attendance rise than anything else.
Attendance actually fell when A-Rod got to Texas and it rose when he left Seattle. Hmmm…
the mets are a better team with a-rod next year. when the team is better more fans go to the games, watch the games on tv, and buy team jerseys and caps.
using bold lettering won’t discount that.
regardless the mets need to add pitching.
There are a lot of ways the Mets can become a better team next year and in particular in future years without spending $30+ million on one player.
And these ways may even be more cost effective and profitable in getting more fans to go to the game, watch SNY, and buy team jerseys and caps.
Using bold lettering was simply a way to underscore the most important point in my post. Which was the idea that attendance rose only after A-Rod got to the Bronx is just not true.
At least we agree on the need for pitching.
Carver, what is it EXACTLY that you would have the Mets do rather than sign A-Rod? There is not pitching to be had. Any pitching that could be obtained via a trade is not within the reach of the Mets. That leaves mediocre journeyman pitchers who will not improve over what we currently have as much as a perennial MVP candidate would. I don’t get why you see the Mets signing this guy as such a bad thing.
By reading your posts, I am surprised you don’t take into consideration what the Mets are still paying Bobby Bonilla every time a FA player is signed. You shouldn’t worry so much about player salaries. If the people who had control over such things did, this wouldn’t be an issue.
Wouldn’t you at least agree that with A-Rod on the field you would feel a little bit better that the 8 bucks you paid for your beer was going towards paying a guy who is way more fun to watch play than Luis Castillo, Jason Jennings, Livan Hernandez, or Carlos Silva?
It is really a simple equation; A-Rod makes an immediate impact for this team on the field and makes the team better. None of the other players that the Mets have a legitimate shot at signing do.
his plan is to sign someone like Curt Schilling – or another or the aged retreads out there for one year – and fill in the bullpen with the rest of our available cash.. and let the chips fall where they may in 2008 because…
get this..
we have a maybe 16% (his ## 1/5th of 80%) chance of getting Johan Santana in 2009
CW, this is what I want the Mets to do:
PITCIHNG, PITCHING, AND MORE PITCHING :!:
More precisely, try to fix and upgrade the bullpen this year by eating Mota’s contract and looking into signing someone like Riske or Mahay. And look into signing Schilling for 1 year, because unlike the ancient retreads that the Mets had this year (El Duque, Glavine), this ancient retread was actually able to be an impact player down the stretch and ithe playoffs!
If they waste their money on A-Rod, there is no way they can even go full bore at Santana who will likely be a free agent in ‘08. In addition to Santana, in ‘08 Teixeira, Lidge, Sabathia, Pedro, Ollie, Nathan, Howry, and Burnett may all be free agents. I’d want the Mets to go after a few of them too, not just Santana!
And, as I said above, the Mets cannot afford both A-Rod, Santana, and other additional quality players without becoming the Evil Empire II.
You are just wrong when you say there is no pitching to be had. I’d be happy to have any of the pitchers I named above. They’d all be an improvement on Mota, Show and the Lawrences, Parks and Williamses.
What exactly is your point about Bonilla who right now is not being paid by the Mets?
A-Rod is not more fun to watch than Santana or any other pitcher that does their job well. Ask Yankee fans how much fun A-Rod was to watch in recent postseasons when he choked. Or otherwise wasn’t raking while hauling in $25 million bucks a year. Oh yeah. He was so much fun they booed him with regularity..
Your equation is faulty. While A-Rod might make the team immediately better, so would a lot of other players at a more cost-effective rate.
so Curt Schilling is pitching? he may be good in the playoffs.. but he wont be a significant part of getting the mets there in 2008 – if they’re stupid enough to sign onto his blog BS..
he’s not even a Glavine replacement for IN SEASON..
He’ll be 41 years OLD .. god help us… He’s 7 months younger than Glavine//
he’s a HUGE Risk to come up lame at any time..
He and PEDRO MARTINEZ.. the heart and SOLE of the MEts.. classically DONT GET ALONG>>
Riske and Mahay? seriously? Hello mediocrity.
Id liek to see Omar, Willie and Fred face the fan base if they show’d up on opening day adding Schiiling to replace Glavine and two stiffs for the BP..
Ever hear that Coors commercial .. PLAYOFFS? Who said anything about PLAYOFFS?
that’s be Omar..
so you’d go after Teixeira in 2009 as well?
Boras Client..
you wanna go Dollar for $$ with the Yankees over his services who will have an axz to grind and an open hole at 1B?
Im sure Scottie B. is salivating at that.
Wow, you have a crystal ball? You know right now that Schilling won’t have a good year next year?
So let me play Karnac too. A-Rod will be overpaid next year and he won’t be a significant part of getting any team to the WS in any year in the future.
And what’s the basis for your belief that Schilling won’t be a good Glavine replacement? He may be a ton better.
Pitchers like Moyer and Clemens have had very good years when they were older than what Schilling will be next year.
Why is he a huge risk to come up lame at any time since he pitched over 200 innings the year before? And at any rate, the Mets have Pelfrey, Humber and Mulvey to fill in if necessary.
Pedro didn’t get along with Piazza either but they learned to co-exist for the sake of the team. Good teammates do that.
Riske and Mahay — both immensely better than Show and Mota. So if they’re mediocre, what does that make Show and Mota?
I’d like to see Omar, Willie, and Fred face the fan base if they overpay A-Rod to the tune of $30 million and he chokes again in big situations and/or has a worse year than Beltran.
Ever hear the saying wait till next year? Well that will be Omar’s annual cry if they sign A-Rod.
And, yes, sure I’d go after Teixeira. Unless he were asking for $25+ million for 10 years. I doubt he will. He’s not crazy.
And sure I want the Mets to go head to head with the Yankees. They’ve done it before. If nothing else, it helps ensure the Yankees have to pay a higher price.
And, yes, sure I’d go after Teixeira. Unless he were asking for $25+ million for 10 years. I doubt he will. He’s not crazy.
Teixeira isnt crazy? but he has Boras for an agent..
I’m sure he wont be asking for a lot of money then.. yeah right..
And what’s the basis for your belief that Schilling won’t be a good Glavine replacement?
he pitched 201 innings in 2006 and 93.3 in 2005… and 151 in 2007..
He’s over 40 years old.. he was injured this year..
Maybe if we put him in a glass bubble and roll him out for game 1 ill take him.. but the FIRST GOAL is to GET TO the playoffs..
Adding a Glavine replacement and a few maginal bullpen arms and hoping for the best is simply playing Lotto with the teams fortunes in 2008.
And sure I want the Mets to go head to head with the Yankees. They’ve done it before. If nothing else, it helps ensure the Yankees have to pay a higher price.
Now who is advocating Evil Empire 2?
Pitchers like Moyer and Clemens have had very good years when they were older than what Schilling will be next year.
I wouldnt expect you to include any ALLEGED Performance Enhanced Players in your comparisons..
Look.. “Schill” is self admittedly on his Victory Lap..
I – and I suspect the fan base – dont want another Glavine like 40 plus year old one year victory tour player on this team….
Besides, there is no logical reason why he’d come to the Mets (thank God).. he most likely will go to the Red Sox or the Phils — unless we shower him with a 2 year deal or some outrageous dollar offer.
And then maybe he’ll write a Blog on how the Mets were always his favorite team .. or publish private letters that we’d send him like he did to the Red Sox front office..
no thanks..
you said Pitching pitching pitching? and offer Curt Schilling and two barely replacement level bullpen arms.
I thought given your vitriolic jihad on the “Arod Solution” you’d have a better alternative to wipe the dank taste of 2007 choke out of the collective mouths of long time Met’s Fans
Huh? Not all Boras clients are like A-Rod. For example, both Varitek and Beltran are reasonable clients. It’s when you combine a soulless, super greedy, and narcissistic client like A-Rod with a super greedy agent like Boras that the combo gets really toxic.
And Glavine folded down the stretch like a cheap suit. At this point in their careers, I have more confidence that Schilling can outpitch Glavine, especially if there’s an important game.
The team barely missed the playoffs this year. They missed it because of pitching. Not hitting. Adding offense with a contract like A-Rod’s without shoring up the pitching is not only playing lotto with 2008 but with every year you would have to overpay him.
Huh? You mean if you bid for the same FA as the Yankees do, that makes someone the Evil Empire II? That makes zero sense. It’s the payroll that brings someone into Yankee territory.
Ok, forget about Clemens for now … then it’s Moyer and Rogers.
I believe a large part of the fan base does want Schilling. Just like I suspect a lot of the fan base doesn’t want A-Rod.
And unlike A-Rod, Schilling himself has actually mentioned the Mets as a preferred destination. I wold say it’s more logical that he would become a Met than A-Rod would.
Maybe he would publish “private” letters from Mets officials.. But I’m sure just as he asked the Red Sox first, he’d get the OK with Omar first. See, he has class, unlike A-Rod.
Yes, I said pitching. Then offered Schilling, Mahay, Riske, Santana, Lidge, Howry, Sabathia, Nathan, and Burnett as all potential options. As well as Pedro and Ollie who will be FAs in 2009.
You mean there’s a better solution than Santana and the group of pitchers I mentioned above? Where? Who? Please enlighten us!
Yes, lets go overpay A-Rod to bring the Mes to the promised land — because pitching was the Mets biggest problem this year and A-Rod is such a surefire route to postseason glory. Oh wait, how many rings does he have?
lets get to the core of the debate…
talking about 2008 here..
the UPCOMING YEAR.. AFAIK
How do the Mets SIGNIFICANTLY improve their pitching IN 2008 without adding a SIGNIFICANT offensive player like Arod? who is available at merely the cost of admission.. whatever that winds up as..say 30 mil for arguments sake
you offer Schilling, Mahay, Riske for 2008
I say if you add Arod you can wheel any number of players on the 25 man roster and prospects to MEANINGFULLY improve the pitching situation..
Does AROD also significantly improve the offense? Absolutely.. Alou is a yea older, Greene is gone.. who knows what to expect from catcher and 2B.. In my view, if we add Arod we improve our margin or error in the pitching department
Curt Schilling, in my view, is NOT meaningfully improving the pitching during the regular season… and unless you WIN in the regular season — as we saw this year — there IS NO POST SEASON..
Every team is and will be upgrading their talent .. if we sit back and add a glavine replacement and two bullpen fodder pitchers we have a good chance to NOT make the playoffs in 2008..
There was no point with the Bonilla thing. It was just a joke. But isn’t he still being paid by the Mets? I thought he was.
Anyway…
By you own admission, some of the guys that you mentioned above MAY be FA’s. Some of the others that you list probably wouldn’t be out of contention because of an A-Rod signing.
I guess I view it very simply…
Why pass up on having the best player in the game on your team because a player that could possibly be a FA next season could become available? What happens if you pass on A-Rod for a shot at Santana and then Santana signs somewhere else? Not good. And I think that our chances at signing A-Rod are better than our shot at getting Santana are.
And I am completely against getting Schilling on this team. We already have a guy we signed to specifically pitch in big postseason games, and he’s too old to make it TO the postseason. Schilling is done.
Biggie: No, I’m talking about 2008 plus the future. Any discussion about A-Rod has to include future years as well since he’s asking for a long term contract.
So A-Rod will hamper the Mets ability to improve their pitching this year and down the road. But more specifically after 2008.
Your saying A-Rod improves the pitching makes absolutely no sense. Of course he improves the offense. Stop wasting time and making arguments for things no one is arguing over.
The thing is offense was a lesser problem than pitching this year. The thing is that A-Rod also is a distraction and disruption to a team’s chemistry. The “cooler” effect. The “sucking the life out of the room” effect.
The Red Sox are close to resigning Schilling so I’m glad I have a successful GM on my side. If Theo thinks Schilling improves their chances next year, then I don’t see how he wouldn’t improve the Mets chances. Thank god you’re not the Mets GM. It would be the worst team money could buy, version 2.
And the bullpen pitchers are much better than Mota and Show. Again, if they are just fodder pitchers, then what does that make Mota and Show? Logically since they are much better than them, then it is illogical to say the Mets chances wouldn’t be improved by adding them to the mix.
If the Mets add A-Rod at anything near his asking price, then they have a good chance to never win a title for the length of his contract. Sorry, I want my team to succeed.
CW: Well I didn’t get your Bonilla joke. And no, the Mets are not paying him at the moment. His payments being in 2011. Leave it up to Steve Phillips to structure one of the most bizarre payouts in baseball history.
Some of the others that you list probably wouldn’t be out of contention because of an A-Rod signing.
Huh? I have no idea what you’re trying to say here.
Why pass up on having the best player in the game on your team because a player that could possibly be a FA next season could become available?
Because the best player in the game also carries a lot of baggage that has a “cooler” effect on his teams. Because the Mets greater need is pitching and not offense. Because if they overpay for A-Rod they won’t have the money to go after Santana and still stay at or near the luxury tax threshold.
What happens if you pass on A-Rod for a shot at Santana and then Santana signs somewhere else? Not good. And I think that our chances at signing A-Rod are better than our shot at getting Santana are.
Then you go after Sabathia or the other free agent pitchers available. The chances may be better of getting A-Rod because all it takes is money, but Santana will be better for the team.
As for Schilling apparently you didn’t watch the postseason. The Mets’ old geezer was too old to pitch key late season games but Schilling wasn’t. He excelled in the postseason. Apparently Theo disagrees with you too. He’s about to re-sign Schilling. I doubt Theo would throw over $10 million at Schilling if he thought he was done.
Yeah!, Okay!, AND attendance wasn’t up all over
baseball in the last 4 years, Right ?!
You really are drinking the Boras Kool-Aid !
boras is usually right. people dislike him because he’s the best like his client a-rod. i’d select him as my agent if i was a pro baseball player.
everyone said a-rod’s last contract was crazy. yet, he will get more money this time around with multiple teams willing to pay him. in other words, boras was right that a-rod was worth $200m+ in 2001. in fact, he was such a bargain that he opt’d out of that contract.
I totally disagree that Boras is usually right. I would instead say that he is often wrong and just blowing hot air.
I would say that he is usually very good at manipulating the media, throwing up smokescreens, and getting his clients top dollar. But I would also say that many of his clients end up in places that are not the best for them.
I also disagree that there will be multiple teams willing to pay him more than what he got paid last time around. Maybe only if the deal is much much shorter (like 4-5 years). But it only takes one team and I think there may be one team out there. But I doubt he cracks $30 mill a year (unless perhaps it’s a 3-5 year deal).
If you say a player is worth anything that a team is willing to give him, then of course A-Rod was worth $25 million in 2000. But if you don’t look at it that way and look at his salary just in terms of what others are paid, then no he wasn’t worth $25 million. I think the fact that Texas had to pay a large bulk of his salary just to get rid of him is proof of that. And Boston also was not willing to take on his entire salary. So, really, there is not support for saying he was worth all that money.
boras’ job is to get the most money possible for his clients. as i said he’s usually right concerning his clients. not right in terms of predictions or helping teams, but that’s not his job.
you can’t blame him for putting his clients in places that are not best for them. that’s ridiculous. the clients sign off on the contract. they care about the money. a-rod went to texas b/c he wanted money. he also agreed to go to the yanks who he left for more money. that’s what the majority of the players do.
a-rod will definately have multiple suitors for a lot more money than his last contract. the proof will come in a few months. no way he gets less money than last contract.
a-rod isn’t worth it for a small market club, but definately for a top 5 or 6 salary club. think the yanks make the playoffs w/o a-rod this year. this year will be his 3rd mvp since signing that huge contract. anyone have more? you never overpay for the best. you overpay for the mediocre. filling your team with over-paid guys like this year’s crop: hunter, rowand, a. jones.
Well, what is Boras right about? I don’t even get your point. Is he right that Park was a great pitcher? Or Dreifort? What exactly is he right about? Please inform me because as I see it, he’s wrong as often as he is right.
I am not blaming Boras for getting his clients into situations that are not right for them. I’m just saying that’s an unfortunate result of being a client of his.
Are you saying that at least two teams will offer A-Rod more than the total dollar amount of his last contract? I totally disagree. I think you’re wrong and time will tell. I think at most only 1 team will come through.
No matter what you say, the fact remains that up till now, only 1 guy — Hicks — ever thought A-Rod was worth $25 million dollars a year. The Yankees didn’t think so. The Red Sox didn’t either.
And yes, I think the Yankees make the playoffs without A-Rod because no doubt they’d have another big bat in their lineup if they didn’t have him. And offense was not their problem this year. It was pitching which they fixed via the farm system mid-season.
…if the Mets sign Arod they can use Reyes as the biggest chip out there in the Santana sweepstakes (if there’s gonna be one).
….and that trumps all the so-called prospects that the Dodgers; Diamondbacks; and Yankees can offer.
But only if we get a window to sign him before the trade is concluded.
Mnnesota seems to be quite worried about how their fans will react if they trade Santana. That fear clearly gets mitigated by moving him for the starting National League shortstop.
I wouldn’t trade Reyes for the entire Minnesota Twins.
I know this is blasphemous, but do you think Omar’s lack of an endorsement could mean he is considering moving Reyes or Wright in order to accommodate A-Rod? Perhaps Wright and either Pelfrey or Humber for Johan Santana. How would you feel if that move were to go down (assuming we can resign Santana to a long term deal)? I think 6-8 years of A-Rod/Santana is better than Wirhgt and Carlos Silva or whatever free agent pitcher is currently available. As much as I would love to keep Reyes and Wright together forever, I think that is one of the few moves I would support.
No that would be very, very bad. And now way it would/should take MORE than David Wright to get Santana.
That would be horrible. Have A-rod for 8-10 years or Wright for 18 years? Oh yeah real tough one there. A-rod may have better production but it will fall off sooner and Wright will be around much longer than A-rod. The Twins will never trade Joe Mauer. The Yankees would never trade Derek Jeter. The Mets will never trade David Wright or Jose Reyes.
Are you serious?
There is no way that the Twins would accept a straight trade of David Wright for Johan Santana.
They are going to cash in on this guy for as much as they can, and they are most likely going to do it by holding someone up for every meaningful pitching prospect that they have. That’s how small market teams work.
there is no way the mets do that
LOL!
I think you meant carlos silva. Curtis Sliwa is the Guardian Angel. I think the mets could sign sliwa for less ;-)
Sign A-Rod, move Wright to RF and package Milledge and young pitching for a higher end pitcher……F-Mart may wind up your 1B of the future.
Have cowbell-man catch and bring Cy Young back from the dead to pitch…
I want Omar to go after A-Rod. I don’t understand a lot of people’s comments regarding the use of money to go after pitchers…
What pitchers?
Carlos Silva? He of the .287 BAA, and the 229 hits allowed in 202 innings, with only 89 strikeouts? Please. Livan Hernandez? Pass. I realize that they are both innings eaters, and we neeed that, but to pass up on A-Rod for mediocrity is borderline absurd.
Sign A-Rod, and you make Milledge/Gomez expendable. The offense would be set, and corner outfielders are never hard to find. Use them as trading chips, along with Pelf or Humber.
And then of course, the argument comes up of ace pitchers hitting the market NEXT year. So, you want to pass up 2008, in hopes of getting a pitcher in 09? Lets face it. We don’t have a farm system that matches to half the teams out there, you know, teams capable of trading GREAT prospects for players. Play for this coming season, and worry about the next. Sorry folks, but we’re not getting Santana, Bedard, Kazmir, Sabathia, etc … unless we trade our franchise players, to which I vote against. Why? Because then you risk losing the aforementioned players if an extension isn’t worked out.
Also, this IS a business. The Mets need a franchise face or two to complete with the Yankees in the NY market, in terms of exposure and marketability.
And as for Lo Duca, whoever was arguing against Torrealba forgot to mention that he is FAR better defensively than Paulie. The only reason he sucked last year was because of an injury with his shoulder. Check the year before, I think he threw out almost 40% of would-be basestealers.
He’s younger, and is better behind the plate. I’m sorry, but I don’t want a 36 yo aging singles hitter becoming a black hole at the bottom of the lineup.
My suggestion? Sign A-Rod, trade Delgado for some relief help and bucket of baseballs, sign Silva, trade Milledge/Gomez/Pelf/Humber for someone decent in the rotation.
Agreed but you have to keep Milledge. Gomez isn’t ready to start RF so if you trade Milledge who do you put there? Endy? Although if you wan’t a catcher with an arm why not Olivo? He throws almost 100 to 2B, and none of the options besides Posada are much offensively anyway so you may as well go for defense and have the catcher bat 8th.
The questions no one seems to answer are …
How can anyone be so sure that David Wright moving to a completely new position would end in a successful transition?
There would be an enormous amount of risk taken here in a such a move. I understand that A-Rod is an extraordinary talent, but it is very foolish to just carousel the face of the franchise, and may I add future team captain, around the field without a care in the world. No matter how highly someone praises the athleticism of David Wright, the fact of the matter is that he will be a defensive liability at whatever position he takes over. Sure, he may be young enough to endure a switch; however, saying his chances are good is one thing, performing up to those premium standards is another.
Could he learn the position and serve adequately?
Yes, that’s certainly plausible scenario .. but it is far from a guarantee at any means.
Also another perspective to consider, what happens if possible poor play defensively begins to take a toll on Wright’s approach at the plate?
Again, anyone would anyone want to tamper with one of the greatest young players in the game today? He has already shown us what he is capable of doing, and the level of performance can only go up. There is simply way too much at stake.
Sign A-Rod, period.
The Mets were willing to spend money on Dice-K last year. 36M PLUS 10-12M per year. With NO REDUCTION mentioned EVER!!! Omar said he had room to move up the payroll but he passed on Zito because it wasn’t a reasonable deal. The Wilpons/Omar were willing to increase payroll but didn’t find a player/players worthy.
I’m sure the marketing folks can find sponsors for A-Rod in the US/Latam vs. Dice-K with Japanese sponsors.
Let’s assume that this year they could grow payroll by 20M. This is the Dice-K money plus some growth for the increase in attendance. If you take Glavine, Green, Castillo, and LoDuca’s salaries the team could have a budget of $40-50M to sign players.
To me that’s A-Rod plus money for a starter and spare parts. If they clear Delgado, that’s an even bigger budget.
Worst case, they just sign A-Rod and 4th starter-type.
In 2009 they have Delgado and Pedro’s money.
Case closed. Sign A-Rod and live with the highest payroll in the NL along with the bggest profit in the NL.
Well in ‘09 let us hope they resign Pedro because that means he is healthy and pitching well and Texiera will be available to take over at 1B. Although if all these pitchers really do make it to the free agent market I wouldn’t resign Pedro unless he wins the Cy Young this year. With the likes of Santana, Peavy, Sabathia and more available Pedro wouldn’t make sense because of his age, but that is in the future and we have to worry about now.
as far as a-rod’s preference for where he goes, i think that boras remarks last week are a sure sign that the mets would be a good fit. boras more or less summed up what he thought of the mets’ position-that it was basically a no brainer for the mets to sign arod. i would guess that the fact that he DID mention the mets, and only the mets, that we are a team that they would definitely go to. i don’t think that would be a problem at all.
does anyone know if arod has ever or would ever consider playing 2nd base?
now THAT would be ideal. no change in position for ANYONE.
I’d hate to risk his health on takeout slides turning 2. Same for Reyes and Wright.
DW in RF is the answer. He’s athletic, fast, and has a strong arm. He could move to IB later in his career.
Assuming Alou is targeted to play 120 games (about 1/2 the time against righties) then lineups could look like this:
Vs. All Lefties Vs. Some Righties
Reyes Reyes
Beltran Chavez
A-Rod Beltran
Wright A-Rod
Alou Wright
Delgado Delgado
new CATCHER Gotay
Easley new Catcher
If they move Wright to the outfield I’m going to find some cyanide.
The questions no one seems to answer are …
How can anyone be so sure that David Wright moving to a completely new position would end in a successful transition?
There would be an enormous amount of risk taken here in a such a move. I understand that A-Rod is an extraordinary talent, but it is very foolish to just carousel the face of the franchise, and may I add future team captain, around the field without a care in the world. No matter how highly someone praises the athleticism of David Wright, the fact of the matter is that he will be a defensive liability at whatever position he takes over. Sure, he may be young enough to endure a switch; however, saying his chances are good is one thing, performing up to those premium standards is another.
Could he learn the position and serve adequately?
Yes, that’s certainly plausible scenario .. but it is far from a guarantee at any means.
Also another perspective to consider, what happens if possible poor play defensively begins to take a toll on Wright’s approach at the plate?
Again, anyone would anyone want to tamper with one of the greatest young players in the game today? He has already shown us what he is capable of doing, and the level of performance can only go up. There is simply way too much at stake.
why would anyone **
If the Mets sign A-Rod, they no longer have to worry about David Wright being the face of the franchise.
I am only agreeable with moving Wright if the move is to first base. That is not such a stretch, and David does have the tools one would need to excel there. Moving Wright to second base is insane to me, and sending him to the OF seems like a waste.
There is a lot at stake, but it is a lot less if Wright moves to first.
I agree, if there ever was a move to take place, I think first base would make the most sense.
Too many people are targeting their concern about how the Mets spend money. But fans must realize that the Mets are 3rd in revenue earnings and rising up the list quickly. The Mets and the MLB in general are money making machines. Boras knows this and using it to his advantage. The Mets definitely have the money to sign A-Rod and also take on even more.
Take the Dice-K negotiations for example. The bidding came down to the Red Sox and Mets, 2nd and 3rd in total revenue respectively. The Red Sox committed 51 million and the Mets committed something in the range of 35 million just to talk to the player. So if you think getting A-Rod will tap the Mets out, you are mistaken. The Mets have the ability to get Arod and the should definitely explore the option.
In regards to Omar, if he did not explore the option of A-Rod, a future HOF and one of the best players ever, he would not being doing his job. Omar is on a shorter leash now with the results of this past season and he would only be doing the right thing with keeping interest in A-Rod.
And ticket prices are going to go up no matter what with the new stadium whether or not the Mets add payroll.
ONe thing that keeps coming up bothers me a little: the comment that the Mets need to add pitching.
IMO, that isn’t quite accurate. What they need for 2008 is to get better pitching (more consistant and reliable).
Now, that could come from new guys, or just as probable (and required) is that it also comes from returning guys.
returning could be holdovers stepping it up (Perez, Maine, Pelfrey, Pedro, etc.) or MIA guys coming back (Sanchez). Not to mention rookies that could take a step up (smith, Collazo/Muniz). Stuff like that.
A lot of guys in the rotation and pen had rough finishes, but they did real well (most of them) for the first 5 months before tiring out. With minor changes to support them, it is quite possible that they perform better next year.
IMO, it is quite likely that more pitchers step it up than go backwards. Maine and Perez are just hitting what should be peak years, and should have better (and more reliable) seasons. Pelfrey was showing improvement, and getting some time in, and probably couldn’t do any worse! Humber got a taste, etc.
Pedro showed that he was pretty much recovered, and should be able to pitch normally next year. Who knowswhat to expect from El DUque, maybe the foot surgery will help him?
The pen is iffier, and that is where you should see some trunover. But, if they can bolster the middle innings guys, and get fewer short starts, it can be fine.
Obviously adding some new arms, if they are better than what they are replacing, will be a plus, but it isn’t the only way to have better pitching results next year.
mike carp and humber for johan?
lol
The Tigers just recently traded for Renteria and I certainly doubt they would rid of branden Iinge. Tigers are as favorite to land Arod as the Marlins. My guess is that Arod would like to play for Boston, but Boston won’t bite. Red Sox Nation has clearly stated they want no part with Arod and Lowell is a crowd favorite. Now Boston and Tigers are crossed off. Giants are short in funds because of the Zito signing, and getting Arod defeats the purpose of rebuilding. Arod wants a championship and that team has an offense as depleted as a team that has a really really depleted offense.(I really didn’t have a good analogy.) The way I see it, it comes down to either the dodgers, Angels and Mets.
Your arguments are plausible, but if the Mets do become the frontrunner for A-Rod, does that then necessitate a Yankee re-entry into the A-Rod negotiations?
Your arguments are plausible, but if the Mets do become the frontrunner for A-Rod, does that then necessitate a Yankee re-entry into the A-Rod negotiations?
maybe.. but there is the luxury tax for the yanks to think of.. whatever the mets pay the yanks cost significantly (40%) more..
Also, the Rosenthal piece makes a lot of sense regarding where that relationship is
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7409488
I think the Tigers would be more than willing to part ways with Inge if they could find a suitable replacement. He’s not that good.
I think your #1 reason is the most significant.
It would be one thing if the alternative to signing A-Rod was going after meaningful “upper-middle-class” talent, but it isn’t. The drop-off from A-Rod is huge. After A-Rod, the market is just filled with Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera, and a bunch of crap.
I think that your #1 reason is the most significant.
It would be one thing if the alternative to going after A-Rod was targeting a few “upper-middle-class” players, but it isn’t. The drop-off is huge. After A-Rod, there is Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera, and a big bunch of garbage.
its – pretty much — in order of significance..
whodda thunk that BiggieSmalls and Christian Warrior would be down on the same side of the debate..
Dint you ban my album in 1994?
i strongly agree that the mets should sign A-rod. but please do not move wright to 2nd. put him at first and trade delgado, lmillz, and cash to the angels for ervin santana and a bullpen arm. this year santana was awful- but this guy has electric stuff and would help this rotation out. We then sign jenkins and jennings for one year, if possible. so we dont have to spend 40 mil on silva!!
pedro
maine
ollie
santana
Jennings/pelf
I am intrigued by Ervin Santana. I think the kid would have a good chance to shine in the NL. I wouldn’t give up Lastings for him, and don’t really know what it would take .. but I am interested nonetheless.
ill take ERVIN Santana and hand him over to Professor Rick any day..
The Angels would probably let him go — maybe we counld get creative and package delgado and a prospeect (pelf or whoever) for ERVIN and a better Angels prospect..
Of course non of this is possible with out signing your favorite host hated best player of this generation..
And ABSOLUTELY SAY NO to DW to SECOND BASE>>