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According to Marty Noble at MLB.com, free agent David Eckstein - not Luis Castillo - appears to be the Mets primary target for second base.
…cerrone posted similar information earlier today about the pursuit of eckstein and it’s becoming more and more clear that he is the team’s first choice at second base…
Noble also mentions that D’Backs 2B Orlando Hudson is an option, but he who would require a trade and the Mets clearly prefer to save their chips 
for pitching.
…cerrone and i have differing opinions on eckstein - as he’d likely be my last choice out of the available options..…his ‘hustle’ just doesn’t equal his production and the stats support that…
…that being said, since the Mets lived with castillo for a few months this past season, and do not see him as a top priority, it makes me wonder about his health - or if they soured on him - since it appears eckstein and castillo are both looking for similar four-year, $30 million deals…
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Pass on both Castillo and Eckstein for a 4 yr/$30 million contract. These guys are not worth 3/$15 let alone the above mentioned.
As for the Wagner situation, I contend the Mets should sign F Cordero to a contract making him the 8th inning guy and “closer-in-waiting.” This allows the Mets to use Heilman in a package to obtain a #1 or #2 starter and gives them protection from Wagner going down from injury or if he retires after 2008 instead of pitching the 4th year of his contract (which I believe is a mutual option).
Open the purse Freddie…..open the damn purse….
Wagner’s fourth year is guaranteed.
And I don’t get the Eckstein stuff. He’s not that good. He’s just gritty. I guess thats worth 30 million. Disgusting that the Mets will have to pay mediocre options at 2nd base eight million dollars a year.
I don’t understand the whole souring on Luis Castillo bit. Either way, neither Eckstein or Castillo is worth a four year deal.
I agree… the years and the money talked about for both those guys is crazy. If they’re paying Eck 7-8 million a year, they are just plain stupid. Gotay would give them what Eck would (and more, maybe) for a tiny fraction of that cost. If they sign Eck to a 4 year 30 million dollar deal, they will regret it in ‘08, ‘09, ‘10 and ‘11.
I’d give money but not years to Castillo. And i’d be okay (and only okay) with like a 1 year 1.5 million dollar deal for Eck. Anything else is tossing money out the window.
There were rumors out of Eddie Coleman’s camp that Castillo was a bad influence on Reyes. Maybe at the end of the day the Mets are going with keeping the demons away from Jose as much as possible. It may not work as we learned with the 80s Mets, but the souring makes sense if you look at it from that vantage point.
The Mets soured on Castillo for two reasons:
1. his health;
2. his alleged influence on Reyes.
That being said, who would you rather have:
1. Castillo;
2. Eckstein; or
3. Iguchi.
Recalling how Eckstein killed us in ‘O6, I’d rather have him; then Iguchi, then Castillo.
If both guys were in similar health, I’d go with Castillo. But I think I’d probably prefer Eckstein because, even though he had some back problems this year, he seems in better physical shape than Castillo. I could see Castillo being the El Duque of 2B for us. I’d hate to risk him breaking down at playoff time, although with the moves that Omar has made so far, I’m not sure that is even on the radar. But even still, Castillo at 3 or 4 years could also saddle us with a hurt player under a “long term” contract, at least in Met terms (besides Beltran’s). The Mets need to get their act together and I don’t see it. Hope I’m wrong, especially with my concerns that it will be the Brothers Hernandez on the Queens highwire soon.
Eckstein played 117 games this year. 123 last year.
Castillo played 142 games last year. Castillo 135 this year.
Eckstein played in less games than Castillo. Either way, I’d pass on both in a four year contract.
I would rather sign Eckstein 4yr/$30M than Castillo because he doesn’t have arhritis.
True, no arthritis. Also no bat and no arm.
mistermet,
ive been watching you on this site for a while and not only do you disgrace me as a met fan you make me angry that i am a white male. Eckstein is WHITE you moron. You patrol this site looking for things to get angry at. While obviously that is a bi-product of this site, your unrelenting negativity is really both unfounded and obnoxious. You make comments such as the lack of white players on this team, then you proceed to say we should sign Castillo over Eckstein and Rivera over Wagner. It really is absurd. And last time i checked, Eckstein has two more world series rings than anyone on the mets and was named MVP of the series that same year. When you can actually make an argument that has validity and substance please feel free to use this open forum again. But until then go yell at your fading Todd Hundley poster on your wall.
You just asked someone to present an argument that has validity and substance and in the same post you say “And last time i checked, Eckstein has two more world series rings than anyone on the mets and was named MVP of the series that same year.”
Does not compute.
THANK YOU!!!!!! I cannot stand the ring argument. Raphael Santana: World Series Ring. Ernie Banks: No World Series Ring.
Danny Heep: World Series Ring. Willie McCovey: No World Series Ring.
Trot Nixon: World Series Ring. Ted Williams: No World Series Ring.
PLEASE!!!!! LET SANITY RETURN!!!!!!!!!
This is a silly distortion of the observation that Eckstein has played a major role in two championship runs. “Raphael” Santana, apparently a renaissance painter and guitarist, was not a top of the order hitter, and certainly wasn’t anything close to the frigging World Series MVP. (That said, never, ever knock a guy who played shortstop for a World Champ . . . unless it’s Jeter, for wholly independent reasons.) Some — not all — statheads simply do not understand that the sorts of dynamics that affect every other field of cooperative human endeavor also come into play on a baseball team. Chemistry, leadership and professionalism really do matter, even if it’s absurd to say that Eckstein chugging his way down to first after a walk puts more snap in Maine’s fastball. It wouldn’t. But you should not underestimate the importance of these sorts of influences.
You people who talk about Eckstein playing a major role are seriously dumb. The guy was awful for thirteen and a half of St. Louis’s sixteen post-season games in 2006, then got hot for 2 1/2 games, and then the fools who vote for such awards gave him the WS MVP. Of all the people who were major contributors during the entire run, Eckstein would rank roughly 15th or 16th.
This guy is not good. He is a downgrade from all options, including Castillo. To hell with his grit – he can’t hit his way out of a paper bag and has no great defensive ability. This organization is officially an embarrassment if it gives this midget $30 million.
But how dumb is it to say that a guy is awful for a “half” game? What — does he have to get a hit in every trip to the plate?
He was certainly not “awful” in the postseason, as any glance at his stats will show you. What’s more, if he turns it on when he’s needed most, all the better. He is not Chase Utley, no. But as affordable players go, he brings more to the table than others with similar stats, e.g., Castillo.
I would be interested to see what Iguchi wants, however. He could be a better option — potentially cheaper, more productive, and, yes, gritty.
He was certainly not “awful” in the postseason, as any glance at his stats will show you.
A glance at his stats.
2006 NLDS: .133/.133/.133, 1 RBI
2006 NLCS: .231/.333/.385, 1 RBI
2007 “MVP” performance at WS: .333/.375/.500, 4 RBI
Awful for two series, then he got a bunch of hits in the final couple of games. Wow, I am just so impressed. And his over post-season stats are completely average.
no. But as affordable players go, he brings more to the table than others with similar stats, e.g., Castillo.
Tell me, do you watch baseball with your eyes closed. You’ve already destroyed any credibiliity you have by claiming that a guy with a .278/.333/.335 career line in the post-season “turns it on.”
He stinks.
Two extra base hits in the NLDS and NLCS in ‘06. Tell me how he played a MAJOR role again?
Tone it down.
Boy, what a crappy WS line. The “turning it on” referred to the WS.
I don’t think those post-season numbers are anything to sneeze at. You can discount the leadership, setting the tone, etc., but if you do, you obviously weren’t paying attention during the 2006 NLCS. I’m sure you had your eyes open, but you may not have the brainpower to process what you see.
I’m guessing Slob is fat.
You have absolutely no substantive argument to make other than to keep repeating the same old mantra about heart and leadership. You talked about what a great post-season performer he was, and I when I showed empirical evidence that he wasn’t very good, you changed the standard to the world series, and used as evidence a stat line that is not exactly Reggie Jackson-esque.
You can discount the leadership, setting the tone, etc., but if you do, you obviously weren’t paying attention during the 2006 NLCS.
I was paying a attention, and I think jeff Suppan had a little more to do with why the Mets lost than Eckstein, as did Wainwright, Spiezio, Taguchi, and Yadier f’n Molina.
You’re guessing I’m fat? I’m guessing you’re a piece of garbage. Try debating the issue like an adult. What’s the matter? Don’t you have enough “grit” or “leadership” to form a legitimate argument? You’re a feces-chucking ape who can’t handle the fact that advancements in statistics allow us to quantify performance, and thus upset the mysterious world of baseball that you knew when your were a child.
This is ridiculous. The Mets are going to inflate their resume for this guy? If they sign him for those kinds of numbers and don’t just blow up the entire payroll to somewhere in the 150Million plus range this is just stupid. &.5 million a yr for a guy who arguably doesn’t belong in the majors. Didn’t they watch Julio Lugo last year?
If they make this deal, I will have to start assuming Omar and the Wilpons have no real idea or plan as far as the next three years. Hopefully this is all just a smokescreen for something better.
The reason I am concerned is this type of move is exactly what they avoided last year, and although at the end they didn’t accomplish much last off season, they didn’t take on insanely valueless contracts. This would be a 180 from last years approach which tells me there is no plan. Flying by the seat of your pants rarely works. Waste the money on Mo Rivera if you are gonna start throwing around dollars.
Get the confidence meter up because I have to get my “1″ in there.
They certainly have no plan. So far Omar’s trades have been atrocious. They’ve talked the talk about “youth” but it seems pretty clear that guys like Milledge, Gomez, Gotay, Humber, and Pelfrey will not be on the team next year. Instead of spending money on trash like Torrealba and Eckstein, who will clog up two deficient positions for years, we should be letting the kids sink or swim and filling needs with low-risk guys. Unless you’re signing a superstar to a long term deal, nobody should get more than a one or two year deal with team options. They are going to be desperate to unload Eckstein and Torrealba in two years.
resume? I meant payroll.
Ughh once again:
Eckstein:
-Slower than Castillo
-Worse defensively
-Has back problems
Castillo:
-Faster runner
-More range
-Better arm
-Knee problems that he has dealt with for quite some time now, and even had them cleaned out this offseason
At worst Castillo would be treated like last season where he’d get rest every now and then judiciously. If you have to overpay, go for Castillo, not Eckstein who is the poor man’s Castillo. Luis has plenty of “grit” too, but better stats behind it.
I actually like Eckstein for 2nd base, if Castillo’s legs were in better shape i’d rather have him,
but, i dont really want either of them at that cost, seems like a lot of money for a 2nd string 2nd baseman.
the only thing i want to see us spend huge money on, is GOOD PITCHING. cause thats what we really neeed, our offense wasn’t bad last year, if we can keep the same or slightly better production we’ll be ok, but without some good pitching, we’re sunk.
So come on where’s the pitching omar? i realse you can’t just pull pitchers out of your uhh nose, but still….
Eckstein has missed more games last two years than Castillo has.
Eckstein is okay but i rather have castillo on the mets cause i think he is the better player out of both of them. What I can’t understand is this lets say the mets soured on castillo or whatever then why just settle for eckstein give gotay a chance for a year. If it does not work out then next year go after a better second baseman. Plus Gotay should play the same defense and have better offense. I dont know what it is but it seems omar is not on the same page as the fans. Firs he didnt even try to resign loduca which I guess is not the biggest deal but now he is trying to get eckstein 4 yrs. 30 million is he crazy this guy might have heart but so does castillio this is a very bad situation.
Anybody remember Wally Backman? Eckstein reminds me of him. Tough, smart and not a sissy. We need players like that.
Wally had a great stash; Eckstein doen’t shave yet…
Backman was a platoon player. Besides he never had a 4 year deal and was retired by the time he was Eckstein’s age.
Talent wins games. where did St. Louis finish last year with his grit?
This is just depressing. I’d rather not sign any of these guys and see who develops out of the young guys and see who is available nest year. I’d gladly roll the dice on this season rather than Omar continue to clog up payroll with these has beens and wantabes.
One more year, that is all Omar and the Wilpons get.
Excuse me! Didn’t St. Louis win the World Series with Eckstein as their gritty little shortstop? Geez, what short memories we have.
And what makes Eckstein tougher than anyone on the Mets? Because he lacks skills and is a “hustle” player? Please, he does nothing that is beyond what other players do. I haven’t seen him charge mound lately. Maybe we can get Biggio out of retirement. (sarcasm)
i don’t get it. nobody wants to sign castillo or eckstein to a four year deal, a deal that they will probably get one way or another with us or with another team, so no sense complaining about that. they both have injury potential. gotay has lousy defense. ahern has lousy offense.
exactly WHO are you suggesting we get? trade good chips for hudson and wait til the dbacks decide to do it or not do it, in the meantime letting free agents left unsigned?
it seems like to many, the mets can’t make a good decision. if they sign free agents, the free agents stink. if they look to use the young guys from within, they’re cheap. seems to me like the front office can’t win.
how about instead of beefing about the second base possibilities, you come up with a GOOD idea instead of just moaning about the guys mentioned already?
Amen. I get the impression from reading this site some time that people think we are going to get an allstar at every position. It is just not feasible. Is Eck the best 2b going? No. Is he going to break the team? No.
We don’t know the inside info on Castillo either. What do the trainers have to say about his condition?
Also, I’ll say again, Eck can play a bunch of positions which make it easier to give Gomez a shot, and not ahve a wasted man. Does Eckstien deserve a 30 million contract? Probably not. Would we rather pay Matsui 23 ish? What options are cheaper value?
Isn’t what we all liked so much about Lo Duca that he was a tough out? Eckstein is a tough out as well. He does the little things that we need like move a runner along. Is he better that Castillo at this point in their careers? I don’t know, but I bet the Mets management and trainers are in a better position to determine that.
Is Eck the best 2b going?
No, and he might just be the worst.
Also, I’ll say again, Eck can play a bunch of positions which make it easier to give Gomez a shot, and not ahve a wasted man.
Wow. And he plays them all badly.
Eckstein is a tough out as well.
His career OBP is .351. That is not a tough out. Oooh, he fouls off a bunch of pitches before he pops out.
David Eckstein is a terrible baseball player. Every single option out there, yes, including Matsui, is a better sign. Please, for the love of God, pass.
Regarding your question about what the trainers have to say about Castillo’s knees… I would like to point out how reliable our trainers were when they asked about Vlad Guerrero’s back several years back.
I’d offer Castillo 3 years, 21 million with a club option for a fourth year based on cumulative at bats or something.
I hate Eckstein. I don’t want him on the Mets. He’s a little rat bastard and would probably look for housing in the cellar of Shea Stadium.
Let’s get Castillo wrapped up and then sign a reliever. Then let’s trade Heilman in a package to get a starter.
It is becoming pretty apparent that Omar doesn’t have a clue what he is doing.
man you ain’t kidding. when i look at his time as GM i really think all the success we’ve had is based on luck and money. when he brought in marlon anderson, chavez, perez, sanchez i thought he had a real eye for under-appreciated talent or something, but there’s been so many dumb moves surrounding that stuff that i gotta think he got lucky.
Amazing. It’s as though all substandard players know that they can con Omar Minaya into paying them 3 times what they’re worth.
If this deal goes down, I’m going to have “fire Omat” stamped on my postage.
*Omar*
“Omat” would be cool too for all the confusion it would create.
good thing you cleared that up
Am I the only one who would prefer some sort of combination of Easley/Gotay to signing any of these 2B to 4-year deals?
I think these deals will look bad in year 1, let alone year 4.
No. Believe it or not there are other intelligent people here.
That’s not a bad solution. Don’t listen to Slob, he off his john rocker.
I actually like Eckstein a lot. Really. But four years is too many. Three at the most. If someone is willing to give him four, more power to all concerned.
NO!!! I said the same thing yesterday! I think that is the smartest move. Save money and chips for pitching. I’m with you 100%
I’m not sure who started this rumor, but Eckstein isn’t getting 7+ mil per year guaranteed from any team as a 2B.
As a SS he could probably get this money, but since he obviously is marketing himself as a 2B, he won’t. Especially not from the Mets, as he serves no value to them as a leadoff hitter.
He’s marketing himself as a 2b because even he knows he’s an awful SS.
As a GM you need to have one of two skills: using lesser known, underrated talent to build up your team (atlanta), or convince your owners to open their checkbooks (yankees)….If you combine those skills, you can put out a dominant product (boston)……Omar has neither of these skills……
Lesser known, under rated talent?
John Maine?
Oliver Perez?
Endy Chavez?
Marlon Anderson (twice)?
Jose Valentine?
I think an Eckstein/Gotay platoon is better then a Easley/Gotay one. Of course, I am not looking at any stats to back that up, so I could be wrong about that….
While his running to first on bunts makes me shake my head… having a guy willing to do anything to win is not a bad thing.
I wont go so far as to say he is such a great player like some people think… but you cant completely disregard heart.
You can go all day listing Hall of Famer’s that have not won, and scrubs that have… but you cant just blindly apply that to every situation. Guys like Eck, and Counsel and Dykstra are needed on a team. He will not be a bad person to have…
and as for our offense… if our team doesnt hit, its because reyes, wright, beltran, delgado and alou are not cutting it… not because of eck and torreastro
Alou and Delgado are old, and the whol point of getting down on Omar is that he doesn’t look to the future, and it screws us over….Its ok to “live in the now” if you are willing to open the checkbook to deal with the result of the guys you get for “the now” in one more year being too old to see pitches…..What chance do you think alou has of coming even close to what he did last year? Adding eckstein or castillo leaves us in this same delgado and alou debacle, and it keeps us in this constant “chasing our own tail” thing, when we should be focusing on tweaking, not plugging holes with has beens and never was….
i think alou has a 85% chance to coming even close to what he did last year.
I agree that you should always look to the future… but I think Omar has done that.
he has done that by giving Pelf and Humber chances (although I agree that they should have pitched out of the pen last year) and having guys like smith and heilman in the pen. Also, not panicing and trading away young guys at last years deadline is a sign of looking to the future.
He has done that by not moving wright and skipping on ARod
he has done that by having reyes, wright, milledge, maine, perez and now Torrealba as major contributors.
There is no way you can call having delgado a debacle. Yes he underperformed last year. but as our #6 hitter, he doesn’t have to replicate his all-star years for us… He just has to be more consistent this year. I have more faith in him doing that then Carp doing it. Or any other true options out there. Would I like to have Jacobs right now instead… eh… i wouldnt be super confident with him in there… not to mention that Delgado was money in the playoffs in 06
And how can you call Alou a debacle??? he had a 30 game hit streak right at the end of the season… he is as professional a hitter as you get. Yes the injury’s suck… but if we didnt suffer all the injury’s to LMillz, Gomez and Chavez last year it would not have been as bad. That was just bad luck.
Its ok to “live in the now” if you are willing to open the checkbook to deal with the result of the guys you get for “the now” in one more year being too old to see pitches
wow… what a sentance… If we signed Eck for 3 years (I would prefer 2) I bet we can unload him somewhere if one of our nonexistant 2b prospects is ready or if someone else (o-dawg) become available… unless he does lose the ability to see pitches, which to me would mean he has suffered some kind of crazy eye injury… in that case I would feel bad for him.
when people talk about eckstein the completely disregard performance, so why can’t i completely disregard heart? i do not care about heart if the guy just can’t play. you don’t get points for effort in baseball.
*I* would do whatever it takes to help the mets win. because david eckstein and I aren’t good at baseball on the major league level, the best thing we can do is stay off the roster.
I would bet anything that if we had to choose between you and Eckstein… he would outplay you in every sense of the word. In hustle and in ability.
I mean… stat wise… Eck has a VORP of 15.5, while Castillo has one right around 21 (I cant find the actual number…) Not a huge difference there…
I am not saying I am all for it… just that its not the worst thing in the world… Plus, I am not really sold on any of the options out there.
castillo, iguchi, easley/gotay platoon are all better options.
you can’t give eckstein a 4 year contract, and you’ve already downgraded at the catcher position. any more downgrades of the starting lineup, we might as well hand the division title to the phillies now.
yes… because that will be the difference… iguchi instead of eckstein… Thats what will make the difference… Late september next year, if we have eck and he gets up in a close late situation… i will prob find myself saying “damn, if only we had Iguchi up here instead”.
I dont think you can give any of those players 4 years. But 2 years of each… whatever… the stats are all basically the same.
Since all the stats are basically equal… give me the player that has the most playoff experince. The guy that leaves it all on the field every game…
I also disagree that Torreastro will be worse then LoDuca… I think it will be an improvement.
I think Iguchi did rather well against us in ‘07.
There is no reason to get dragged into a multi-year deal with Eckstein. If Omar does, it will be proof that he has no clue as to what he is doing and should be dismissed along with Willie, the first beneficiary of Omar’s incompetence.
I don’t think that Eckstein is great or that he deserves a big 4-year deal, but I think that this “Eckstein-sucks” bandwagon has gotten way out of control.
Offensively, Eckstein’s 2007 season was at least the equal of Castillo’s (who played more than half the season in the AL), probably a little better.
Defensively, you probably lose something with Eckstein. I don’t think either should get a 4-year deal, but the point is that going from one to the other isn’t like going from the penthouse to the outhouse.
Eckstein could be pretty decent as a #2 hitter.
Some of you don’t see that Omar is simply trying to get the smaller-ticket items nailed down, w/o having to give up his own assets, so he can then concentrate on getting the big fish, namely a #1 quality starting pitcher. Maybe Eckstein is the guy for 2B, maybe he isn’t, but you may as well get used to the idea that Omar isn’t going pay big for significantly better options at C and 2B unless it is absolutely necessary. The plan is to do the best you can at C and 2B, and go for broke with a top SP.
Those of you who rage about the Torrealba deal and/or the possibility of signing Eckstein should put your cards on the table: What deal would you like to see Omar swing for a different 2B? Is that player available? How much would it cost us? How do you feel about the fact that making such a deal would keep us from being competitive in a deal for a #1 pitcher?
The time-honored cry of “Wilpon is cheap” and “Wilpon should spend more money” won’t wash. There’s a budget. Work with it.
The mets need to find an identity….are they are big market team who spends to win like the yankees and redsox, or are they a building and developing young players team? On the one hand, they dont spend appropriately, on the other, the dont use their young talent and go borrow other teams players to play their golden years…..its ridiculous
cant they just be the mets?
I dont want to root for the yankees, redsox, twins, indians, marlins or any other team out there…
you love mediocrity dont you? THE METS havent wont jack, so no, Im not satisfied with just being the lukewarm 2nd tier team in nyc…..
Of course I want to win…
but I also love the game. And I love my team for what it is.
And I love not being an evil empire like the red sox and yankees (who are interchangeable now in my opinion). I also love not being a small market team like the Indians and Twins that have to decide what to do with my studs because we wont be able to afford them when they hit FA.
The Yanks might have been close to being on par with the Sox in evil last year, but now it looks like their payroll will flirt with $250M. The Sox are in the dust again.
You know who the Mets should sign?
Kaz Matsui.
Yes, that Kaz Matsui.
Still better than the world leader of GrORP and <3 / 9, but has the production of Nick Punto.
And still better than a guy who’s legs are on the wrong side of 85 years old.
There’s only one better option, and that’s Gooch.
Here, yet again, we see a complete detachment from reality from a stathead. Matsui could not succeed in New York in his frirst tour of duty. A lot of that was, in all likelihood, PSYCHOLOGICAL. Yes — it really does affect performance. Once the pressure was off, he became more comfortable. A fat free agent contract to return to New York would in all likelihood just take him back to square one. Was it magic that he improved in Colorado? Did he suddenly awaken one morning with more “talent”? Heck, no. He was in a better environment and was able to work his way toward becoming a more productive major league player. You cannot simply plug players in anywhere in the league and expect them to be the same. It just doesn’t work that way. It’s life.
1.) I think he was kidding.
2.) Matsui’s failures probably had more to do with his chronic injuries than his inability to block out thousands of booing fans.
3.) Statheads aren’t detached from reality. Statheads know that Matsui posted am OPS+ of 87 last year. Which is horrible. It’s the “intangibles” and “grit” crowd who are proclaiming him to have “turned it around” . Statheads know otherwise.
Did they proclaim a “horrible” player to have “turned it around”? I couldn’t hear over all of the noise of the locker room celebration after he helped lead them to the pennant. And do NOT tell me Matsui was anything but instrumental during the playoff run. He destroyed the Phillies. It was beautiful. But, I guess it’s just a statistical anomaly. . . .
The issue here, incidentally, is not that we have an “intangibles” crowd that would choose Eckstein over all other MLB second basemen, and a “stathead” crowd that would rather have Chase Utley. Everyone would rather have Chase Utley (who is every bit as “gritty” as Eckstein, but doesn’t have to run to first after walks to prove it.) It’s when statheads wail and whine because a player with a marginally lower “OPS+” is chosen over the alternative that the “intangibles” crowd raises an eyebrow.
I’m not whining because of the marginal difference in OPS+. (which isn’t actually all that marginal in the case of Castillo). I’m whining because any way you slice it, signing Eckstein is a waste of money and doesn’t improve the team. If you’re not. You might as well let Gotay start. Maybe you’ll strike gold.
If I was Kaz the only reason i wouldnt hang up the phone after a no thanks to omar was because negotiating with the mets will get him a better offer from somewhere else…
why on earth would he come back here?
Wow….What a whiney bunch of babies we have in here. How about we wait til the end of December before we start crying about how bad this team sucks. The Mets do not have to save money for starting pitching this year because there is no pitcher worth having via free agency. It’s not your money so who cares. Also, they should try to save their top prospects for a trade for a starter. Whether or not other teams like the prospects is another story. Can we please stop talking about Rivera, there is no chance he leaves the Yanks unless they screw him and then I’m sure the Dodgers will work out something with Mo so he can rejoin Torre. Mets fans have a reason to be skeptical but most of you people are nuts. Most of you people should be doing fantasy baseball cuz that’s your mentality. Welcome to reality.
Seems like Gotay/Easley is a better idea than 4 years for an old dog that never had much bite to begin with.
No thanks.
Frankly more than a 2 year deal for Castillo, Eckstein, Iguchi, or Izturis is a waste…..as a Met fan for over 35 years, I’d much rather see a Gotay/AHern platoon at 2B…..Gotay is a good left-handed bat and AHern is a sick defender….save the money OMAR on pitching, pitching, and more pitching….then sign O Hudson next off-season.
They can’t play at the same time.
The line at King Kullen was held up today by a white haired old gezzer.
Lo and behold it was Freddy “the clam” Wilpon.
And he was buying “grits” and “yogurt” with coupons!
Holy cow, 2008 is gonna be one long season in Queens!
If the Mets sign this complete waste of a space midget, immediately after signing a complete non-entity at catcher, then I really will have lost a lot of respect for Omar, and I am far from being an anti-Omar guy. I know there aren’t a lot of great options out there, and I am not expecting him to work miracles. But to sign the worst option at catcher and the worst option at second base is just pitiable.
Worst option? You would rather have Castillo for four years and watch him gimp around all the time or be on the DL constantly. No thanks. Give me Eckstein who plays his heart out every game.
what about IGUCHI!?
Iguchi is okay, but his GHD levels (grit, heart, determination) were woeful compared to Eckstein. I’m just not sure he’s worth it.
Actually, Iguchi has very high GHD levels, which you would know if you understood that baseball takes place outside the confines of a spreadsheet.
I love these arguments that the intangibles guys make. Only they’re not arguments, but mere sputtering absed on nothing.
Clueless.
Didn’t the White Sox win a World Series with Iguchi?
I’m sure Orlando Hudson’s on the radar if available, and that the Mets would try and swing a trade for him AND for a pitcher if possible. Its not completely unrealistic, but it would mean scalping the farm. I’m sure Brian Roberts is also on the radar for that matter, but same problem. One of those two is the ONLY way your upgrading this position. Its just such a crappy FA market all the way around. There’s no one positionally outside of Posada (resigned), A-Rod (resigned) and Lowell (not an option), and no pitchers besides closers like Cordero and Mo.
Here’s the best scenario yet…
Put me and my 6′3″ skinny behind @ 2nd; pay me $100K, health insurance, and all the brisket sandwiches I can eat; and we’ll all get a good laugh.
So, who wants to see me post a picture of me @ second.
You guys are quick to kill Omar. Its mid November. So far he hasn’t let any big FA get away or big trade go so lets give him time to see what he will do. I think you will see the Mets get an ace via the trade market and sign a mid level second basemen and bolster the pen with FA or trade. I don’t think Eckstein is great but he is a decent option. Your not gonna be able to get the cream of the crop at every position.
Can’t wait for the regular season to start so all this negativity just might come to an end.
i want Iguchi out of the three.
Wow…I don’t get the negativity about David Eckstein at all. Granted, he hasn’t played more than 123 games in the last two years, but that’s why we have Easley & Gotay, right? David Eckstein is a proven winner – as evident by his two rings.
Post #1 about not wanting to see him everyday after what he did to us in 2006 – exactly why I want him.
How about his 356 OB% last year, which is a little above his career mark. With Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Delgado(? – I think he’ll bounce back this year), & Alou, I’ll take a guy who can get on base and score runs, which he could do very well for this Mets team. He’d fit well between Reyes & Betran.
His Postseason Stats aren’t anything spectacular if you look at the numbers…but remember The Angels in 2002 & Cards in 2006…he’s a scrappy guy who steps up to the plate when he needs to and when the spotlight gets the brightest…if Castillo’s influence on Reyes has any weight to it (and it’s hard not to ignore the mental lapses/poorer play of Reyes after Castillo arrived), then Eckstein is the perfect answer…
Can he make the transition? I believe so….he’s the right size and will have a little extra time to make the throws with that average age than he would be able to from short…
Eckstein is a very easy player to root for. He hustles on the basepaths and in the field. He may not be the best player in baseball but it is not for a lack of trying. He is just the type of player we need on the Mets. He doesnt need to hit homers, only get on base, be a good glove, and fire up the team when necessary. He can rub off on some of our whining crybabies on the team.
I haven’t posted in awhile, but I just want to say Omar please do not consider signing this guy. Bring back Castillo or get Iguchi, hell anybody but Eckstein. Eckstein sucks, just because he “hustles” does not mean he is any good. I really don’t know if I could be fan of this team with Eckstein as the second basemen.
I hear this guy keppinger is pretty good…why don’t we trade for him?
Also, Owens and Lindstrom are pretty good young guys…scouts have been saying that since they were even younger than they are now while in the minors…maybe we can trade Vargas for one of them.
We could also possibly send burgos for heath bell or royce ring.
Better yet, we can send some garbage for Bannister…I hear he’s ok…not completely sure though…
If we do any of these that could definitely solve a lot of our problems and just focus on starting pitching while letting Castro assume the starting catching job and sign a cheap solid defensive backup…but then again, what do I know? Let’s wait ’till the end of winter and just sign someone expensive at the bottom of the barrel!
Considering the options, I think Eckstein would be a good addition for the Mets at 2nd base (at the right price.) People have posted 4yrs/$30mil like those are the actual numbers rather than what Eckstein’s agent is asking. 2yrs/$10mil or 3/15 (Torrealba range) might be acceptable since I think he’s better than Torrealba and those #s for Yorvit were too high to begin with.
I think the comparisons of Eckstein to Wally Backman are dead on. Eckstein’s numbers look very comparable to Backman:
Backman ‘86
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP
124 387 67 124 18 2 1 27 13 7 36 32 .320 .376
Eckstein ‘07
117 434 58 134 23 0 3 31 10 1 24 22 .309 .356
Eerily similar numbers plus they both bring those intangibles (dismiss them if you like) of grit, heart, hustle, and a winner’s mentality.
Aside from the stats, if you never watched the ‘86 Mets, you would have no idea how important a role he played on that team.
During their swoon this year, everyone complained about the lack of passion the Mets showed this year. Well, here’s a guy who fits the profile of someone who brings those qualities and does the little things that make a team successful (and has decent numbers for a 2nd baseman.)
It’s official folks, Minaya is HORRIFIC!!!!
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The Mets are too cheap and stupid to make the real move and offer that money to Rivera.
As for whos to play 2b, this is yet another position that Omar mismanaged in his tenure here. Instead of doing something to shore up the position, he’s been content with a revolving door of olf stopgap players. Now whatever he does is gonna be the wrong thing. Castillio’s knees for 4 years? Eckstein’s weak bat for 4 years?
Either deal a chip for Hudson (becaue it is Mets fiction that Omar can parlay our subpar chips for a good pitcher) or let Gotay/Easley deal with 2b for 1 season
If you want to keep calling the Mets a “Mickey Mouse” team why dont you just switch to being a Yankee fan? Give Omar and company a chance. The Winter Meetings havent even happened yet. Chill out and wait to see what happens first, and then you can form your opinion. But based on your post it seems you will never be happy.
That’s exactly it now that I see the money those two want. Geeez, back 40 years ago, they would need a second job to earn a living. Things are getting out of control.
Rivera? Are you kidding me? He ain’t ever coming to the Mets unless with offer him something like $55 million/5 years. He’d be just using us, like Posada, to get the Stankees to up their offer.
Get real, please.
dude, make up your mind… you keep complaining about latin players, yet keep asking to get more (rivera, cabrera, etc).
you complain they let white guys (glavine, green, loduca) go, but complain that they’re interested in signing a white 2B instead of a latin one…
you can’t have it both ways, don’t complain about Omar being a biased (by the way, his wife is caucasian) for signing too many latin players in one breath, and lobby for him to sign more latin players in the next breath.
sounds hypocritical…
a white player*
Kind of like what Eckstein, Castillo, or the bat boy would do to you.