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…yesterday, i wrote that i had recently heard from different people that David Eckstein had been seen around the tri-state area with the wilpons, doing their standard meet-new york, live-in-ct tour…
Today, in the Daily News, Adam Rubin writes that Mets officials dined with Eckstein in Greenwich, ‘in the hopes he’ll fill the second base vacancy in Flushing.’
…for what it’s worth, from what i can gather, eckstein grew up a Yankees fan, but has several close friends who are Mets fans…so, despite his own decisions as a young man, at least he keeps good company…i kid, i kid…
…i’m actually a big eckstein fan, and very much hope he ends up being this team’s second baseman…to me, he’s Lenny Dykstra on the infield, sporting a world series ring…
According to Rubin, Eckstein is seeking a four-year deal, similar to what was accepted by Julio Lugo with the Red Sox last winter.
Earlier this week, in the New York Times, Ben Shpigel wrote that Luis Castillo could also command a four-year deal.
…if they both want four years, and the Mets determine that Ruben Gotay is not the answer, which it’s pretty clear they do not, and they have to choose between eckstein and castillo, i hope they choose eckstein, if for no other reason than i am panic-stricken of castillo’s knees, regardless of whether he had surgery on them a few weeks ago…i mean, i have never seen a baseball player look like that, hobbling around all of the time, and i mean all of the time, be it on deck, standing in the field, rounding third or in the locker room, yet then be able to run hard, and well, on command…eventually, that’s going to catch up with him and the team who signs him…
…that being said, the Mets were reluctant to give lugo a four-year deal last winter, so i must imagine they are hesitant about giving a similar deal to either eckstein or castillo…
In 117 games for St. Louis this past season, Eckstein hit .309, with a .356 OBP, while putting the ball in play roughly 85 percent of his plate appearances.
…by the way, it appears the Daily News has revamped the look and functionality of their website…nice job, guys…i like it…
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Eckstein would be a fan favorite.
I think Eckstein is a great player, and I really enjoy his work ethic and most importantly his hustle…HOWEVER, I think using him as our 2B is a mistake. He legitimately has a below avg arm, and you’ll need him to turn plenty of DPs from his backfoot on many occassion. Especially w/ the diving stops that Wright and Reyes can make. Being a former SS, I understand the difference of turning DPs from short or 2nd… At SS, he makes up for his lack of arm by charging and running thru every ground ball….. something to think about..
I liked Castillo, but it would be pretty excellent if we got Eckstein.
It also seems that everyone wants that fourth year….hopefully Omar will understand that in order to get anyone…apparently we need to offer that year……Omar…..step up to the plate!
Four years for this overrated, unproductive, injured schmuck? Are you crazy?
The thing about Eck that might make Minaya more likely to sign him t a four year deal is that he can play any position on the infield if they have to. If they lock him up for 4 years, and Gotay does make the starting 2b position in a copy of years, he can play understudy to Reyes and Wright as a super utility IF, cover for injured players, and still have a roll on the team.
I still think he is a gritty player with a lot of heart. What he lacks in skill he makes up for in effort.
I also have the same concerns about Castillo’s hobbling. My only question with Eck is how well he works with the IF, becasue castillo did have charisma with Reyes up the middle. Still I think this is a good choice.
I was all for signing Castillo, but Eckstien would be a pretty nice pickup to play 2nd, He’s one of those gritty hard nosed players that we need (and lost in Lo Duca)
Sign Eck but he isnt worth 9 million a year…. maybe 6 million per year! Castillo is an old 31 anyway and he is injury prone and has an arthritic hip.
The thing about Eckstein is that he sucks. He’s a trumped-up Joe McEwing. He doesn’t drive the ball. He’s now 32, will be 33 at the start of the season. Eventually, those ground balls will stop finding holes and he’ll stop being fast enough to beat out all those infield hits, and, oh, he’ll hit .250.
Spare me the David Ecksteins and Luis Castillos of this world. I’ll go to war with Gotay.
Stop thinking rationally. We need “grit”. Whatever the hell that is.
By the way, Eckstein hasn’t played any position but SS since 2001, and made 20 errors last year. Yeah, I’m super excited about that defensive “improvement” over Gotay.
im begging all of you, as fellow met fans, to read http://www.firejoemorgan.com and search this guy so you can find the truth on Eckstein
HE’S NOT GOOD
i understand he’s a little white guy who tries really extra super duper hard, but if you REALLY look at his numbers, he’s below average, even his world series mvp perofrmance was really not that impressive, not to mention he’s getting older and gets hurt every single year
please, please, please, read that site, which has so eloquently and intelligently dispelled the myth that he’s a great player, it will definitely change your mind
Without reading your plugged site…I can agree that he is no uber second basemen. He is a SS and a weak throwing one at that. I think we could do worse than him but I have to say that I genuinely believe the best option on the table is to platoon Easly and Gotay for the spot.
Both rake against LH and RH pitching respectively. Gotay probably has more range than Easly but both are decent fielders. Not spectacular in any way but ok. Also…Gotay is likely to get a bit better with more work. The issues on his defense to me always seemed overblown. I watched every game last year. He made no terrific plays but made most of the routine ones routinely. He had a few bad chucks to Reyes which made DP’s impossible but that is a throw that is easy to make and should be correctable.
I’d go with Gotay and Easly personally and not make a deal this offseason for a 2nd basemen. If ODog is really going to make it FA next year then he is likely to be at least shopped at the deadline…along with a bunch of others no doubt. I’d save the coin and spot on the roster for something else. Go to war with Easly and Gotay. Maybe sign Valentin to a minor league deal and see if he bites. He could always be called up to help if the platoon does not work
Same old story.
Matt loves grit and hustle and won’t listen to those who know better.
Give him 8 Yrs $100M. Matt’s already dumped logic and accountability for what he says. Let’s now kill basic rationality.
The point by Andrew is dead on. Eckstein is a better version of Joe McEwing. He certainly CAN’T play all infield positions—he doesn’t even have the arm for short, let alone third.
I’m kind of disappointed that you value Eckstein, Matt. He’s a creation of the media—short and white = scrappy, gritty, and a winner. And as we all know from the media, Lastings Milledge (talented, confident) = clubhouse cancer, showboat, etc.
Look at Eckstein’s stats…. he would be one of the worst 2b in the league….and you want to sign him for FOUR YEARS?!
Why isn’t Iguchi being strongly considered? He’s three times the player that Eckstein is.
Considering your name for the site….I’d think you would prefer to go to war with Gotay no?
Castillo is clearly the better option here. He’s just as gritty of a player as Eckstein, is better defensively and has better range, which is essential with Delgado at 1B. Perhaps the Mets docs know something we don’t.
just brilliant. the mets have determined that a guy who was raking to the clip of .340 before he was pulled from the lineup, and playing adequate defense and who was getting better is not the answer and they want to bring in a piece of garbage.
it makes sense though - minaya hasnt made a good move in 2 years so why start now? he’s wrecking this organization just like he did to the prior ones that he worked for. he really has to go and he can take randolph with him
He also hit under .200 the last 2 months, can’t hit lefties, and can’t play defense. Sure, he had a stretch where he was hitting .340 last year, but he also hadn’t hit over .300 at ANY level since he was an 18 year old in Rookie Ball (Or 5 and a half years prior to his recent MLB callup) It was a fluke, that quickly ran out.
He is what he is, and that’s a very limited player. Probably a Career AAAA player.
Maybe he can make a career out of it, like David Eckstein.
Gotay has the chance to be more than a AAAA player. He is still pretty young and he did have a great season last year. His BA tanked at the time his playing time was eliminated. He became a once a week player and his stats showed that is not his strength.
Playing Gotay regularly, especially in a platoon situation with Easley where Gotay gets to hit Lefthanded exclusively against righthanded pitchers should allow for him to shine.
I’d personally prefer to go with the platoon and see what happens rather than resign Castillo or sign Eckstein or Igudchi
I don’t care what the state of baseball contracts is right now, giving either of these guys 4 year deal is borderline negligent. I’d rather see Anderson Hernandez get a shot. Can anyone honestly say they want to see these guys deteriorating around Citifield in a year. Omar had better come up with a better plan than this. I really think he has fallen into the easy way out. He needs to be more creative. I don’t know hoe, but than again I don’t get paid to build a contender.
Stop signing stop gap hacks with horrible OBPs and bad health histories.
I like Ruben Gotay a lot, and he could sprout into a solid starter who could hit .280 - .300 with some pop, so long as he ditches the right hand side of the plate.
Hey guys, a few friends started a blog to analyze mlb trades and moves. Mlbfleecefactor.com. It’s in it’s infancy stages, but hop on and offer insight if you want. Trying to get the ball rolling.
Thanks!
Um, Eckstein or Castillo………who do we really believe Omar favors? I mean, come on - that’s a ridiculous question, and we all know that Omar favors foreign born players. I’d be absolutely shocked if Omar chooses the American Eckstein over the foreign-born Castillo.
Please spare us the crap.
Is Omar really the only GM that signs foreign players? Nope.
I guess it really bothers you that some spic is running your baseball team.
That is totally uncalled for.
The reason why Omar brings these suspicions upon himself is that he seems quick to sign mediocre Latin players. I’m not into that whole angle just yet, but any more Keppinger for Gotay deals and any more Torrealba signings and I might.
The critics of Omar in this capacity have no problem with good Latin ballplayers, and no problem with Latins in general. They just doubt Omar’s objectivity.
Gotay has proven to be much better than Keppinger.
The Torrealba signing makes sense (somewhat) within the context of a crappy catching market.
Not entirely true on the Gotay for Keppinger trade. Kepp played a fair amount last year and was pretty solid. Look it up. He definitely showed he is capable. i would say that as a guy who hit .300 or better as a minor leaguer in all levels and then did something similar last year as a starter for the reds at SS and 2nd and even third…he was the better player at least so far in his career.
Last year Kepp batted .332 with a .400 OBP 5 hrs and a .877 OPS in 60 plus games as a starter for the Reds
Gotay conversely ended up at .295 with a .350 OBP 4hrs and a .772 OPS in about 70 less at bats
I’d like to think he favors Castillo because Eckstein is a slower less defensively skilled version of Castillo who has back problems which concern me way more than Castillo’s knees.
He’s a gritty, lunchpail, blue collar, hardnosed, pesky, get-yer-uniform-dirty, scrappy hustler with a lot of heart and moxie and sticktoitiveness. He’s got good intangibles and fundamentals and he plays the game the right way. He’s also consistent and a great clubhouse presence. He’s a proven winner with TWO RINGS!
I think I mentioned all the meaningless garbage that has absolutely nothing to do with his ability to hit a ball. Let me know if I forgot something.
Career OPS+ 89. He’s junk.
I like Reuben Gotay. Even though he had a good offensive year there were time he looked over matched against power pitchers. Brad Penny made him look silly last year. Granted Penny can make a lot of hitters look silly, but Gotay looked as though he didn’t belong. I wonder if Gotay is akin to Endy Chavez: a good role player but not a regular. I’m not convinced (yet) that Gotay can produce with a 150+ starts.
If Omar & Co. pass on Gotay, then I would sign Castillo first. I preface my comment on the basis that the Met docs believe Castillo is healthy. Gotay could provide Castillo the needed rest he may require. He’s a master with the bat and will get on base in front of Beltran, Wright and Delgado.
Eckstein would be my # 2 choice. Decent with the bat and knows how to play the game. His arm causes me mild concern, but not enough to pass on him if Castillo goes elsewhere.
I agree with everyone that cites FJM and statistics that conclusively prove that Eckstein is a BAD player.
http://www.firejoemorgan.com/search/label/david%20eckstein
If the only choices are Eckstein and Castillo, let’s at least take the guy who we know can play a decent second base, since we’re not going to get much offense from either one of these guys.
Take Gotay in a heartbeat over either of these guys.
Please, Matthew Cerrone, don’t make any more positive comments about Eckstein. The Mets don’t need more “heart”, “grit” or “hustle”. The Mets need more “doubles” and “home runs” and even “base hits that reach the outfield”.
Now let us never speak of Eckstein again.
This is not Strat-O-Matic my man. This is real live baseball. Eckstein is a good player. I think he could play 2B and do it well. I think you’re being to quick to dismiss him and trusting in stats that never tell the full story.
Stats for Eckstein do not tell the full story. They do tell us that Eckstein can’t hit, field, or throw.
Now if I’m a GM and I want to sign player, I’m open to hearing about how X makes it fun to play baseball and plays the right way, and hustles, and all that.
But if he has half a tool (half-speed) and is well below average in every other facet of the game, none of that other stuff matters unless I’m hiring a male cheerleader for $50K.
Stats may not tell the full story. But they tell largest, most important part of the story, namely what a player contributes on the field.
I still don’t understand whats wrong with Ruben Gotay. Fine his defense may not be as good as the other options and 2B is a big defensive position. Nonetheless, I think he can hold his own and his stick looks pretty darn good. I still think he needs to have a chance to atleast compete for the job in the spring. Put that $ in the bank in the hopes of landing a big pitcher…
Ruben might have had a fluke year last year or might have had a breakout year. Regardless, if he is platooned with Easley the two should not be able to do worse than Eckstein or Castillo. And if worse comes to worse, there, my friends, will always be another Eckstein available. We’re not passing up on a once in a lifetime shot here. There is no reason not t see if Gotay can produce for us cheaply.
totally agree with you
I wouldn’t give either of them 4 years. Castillo has his bad knees and Eckstein has missed about 80 games the last 2 years. I’d much rather persue Tadahito Iguchi over either of them.
FOUR YEARS FOR EITHER ECKSTEIN OR CASTILLO???
This is one time I prefer the Mets to be a little cheap. We lose a #2 hitter though, but I was iffy on giving Castillo a three year deal.. let alone a four. Ditto with David Eckstein. Four years? Disgusting.
Just give me Ruben Gotay for next year.
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Luis Castillo has the same number of World Series rings Eckstein does.
Eckstein is a slower version of Castillo with less defensive skills, not to mention Eckstein has trouble staying on the field with a bad back. Which is much more concerning than Castillo’s knees which don’t keep him out that often, he’s had the condition for a while and even had them cleaned out this offseason. Either stick with Castillo, sign Iguchi or give Gotay a chance. Just say no to Eckstein.
David Eckstein is:
a. slow
b. injury-prone
c. unable to hit for power
d. terrible defensively
e. all of the above
But he’s got moxie! Grit! He’s a winner!
Keep this guy the hell away from my team. If he’s such a hot commodity why aren’t the Cards locking him up?
I’m not crazy about Eckstein, and I certainly don’t like him for 4 years, but I find it interesting that all season long, every day I came on this board I read posts from people about how the ‘07 Mets didn’t care, took everything for granted, didn’t have heart … yada, yada, yada. So the first move Minaya makes is he dumps a “fiery” guy who maybe talks a bit too much for his own good and brings in a guy who seems to be an equal offensively with the same amount of “heart” and “respect.” The second move he’s doing is bringing in a guy who basically is the grit and heart captain of MLB. So of course, everyone around here complains.
I think at the end of the day, LoDuca/Yorvit, Eck/Castillo/Gotay are all interchangeable parts who statistically are not going to make a difference in the long run. So if Minaya is looking more intangibles here, so be it.
Truth be told, the difference between last year and this year will be what Minaya does with our pitching staff, not our light-hitting 2B or C. That’s where Minaya needs to make or break himself. Who cares about quibbling over a bunch of scrappy guys like Eckstein and Gotay?
The offense and toilet paper thin offensive and fielding depth was a big detriment to the Mets last year. Certainly, the pitching fell off the cliff the last month and a half of the season, but it was the holes in our lineup that prevented the Mets from running away with the division in the first 4 months.
The offense should have been addressed more forcefully coming out of the gate in the FA signing period. The greatest offensive force of our time was available for the 2nd time, and again the Mets couldn’t even cobble up an offer. To me, Omar saying “we’re monitoring the situation” means “we have no clue.”
It can’t be so easily brushed off that the real changes have always had to be with the pitching. That’s addressing half the problem, at best. The Mets choked in addressing the manager/pitching coach situation after the season. That was an easy move they’ve flubbed. They are choking in addressing the offense. That was harder, but there was the elephant in the room they ignored. Fixing the pitching is the hardest to do with the fewest options out there. We’ve all seen elite playoff level Mets teams disintegrate quickly in front of our eyes from a combo of relying on players who got old and brittle with Mets ownership/management’s disturbing tendency to do a Lemony Snickets (A Series of Unfortunate Events). Omar’s on that Lemony path now: his horrible bullpen tweaking last winter, the Padres deal, the Bannister deal, the rule V Flores flub…. just tiny stuff innocuous by itself but adds up to create nightmares. That’s why it’s scary that his only real options to address the pitching is to overpay for some career submediocre innings eater or trade away 3 or 4 bodies for another.
People insinuating the Mets should have gone after A-Rod are pretending like a situation exited that didn’t. Let’s face it, the Yankees were waiting in wait for A-Rod, that’s where A-Rod wanted to go, they have him for the next 10 years, bully for them. The Mets didn’t have an opportunity to make a real offer and unless you expect the Mets to go into a room with Boras and just hand him 10 years $350M or something like that, well then you’re crazy.
UN-BE-LIEV-ABLE!!!
WHY
DON’T
THEY
PLAY
GOTAY!?
I’m sorry, but I’m usually pretty even keel about things, but there is no reason for them to throw money at an overrated player with no athletic ability. The guy needs to crow hop three times to get the ball across the infield.
Gotay has a sweet stroke from the left side, and contrary to popular opinion, he has pretty good range. He just needs to become more consistent with his glove and turning the double play. These are things that can be improved with some work. And I don’t want to hear about his age. He’s not that old. Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Jeff Kent, and Jason Bay are all examples of good ballplayers who developed late.
Give this kid a chance!
Be it Gotay or Eckstein, I say as long as Castillo is gone I’ll be satisfied. He looked like he was walking out of a torture chamber every time he took the field, and while I don’t know how valid the stories about him and Reyes were, the time Luis came aboard was when Reyes began to suck this season.
Whether the rumors were true or not, I don’t want to get locked into a 4-year deal with a guy who’s going to be a bad influence on one of our potential best Mets of all time.
Go with Eck, go with Gotay. As long as the hobbling grounder-hitting fool isn’t manning 2B every day, I’ll be happy.
I should clarify, for some of the people who are unsure about whether we’d be okay with Gotay, just what his potential is.
Before being called up by the Royals, who notoriously have brought their players up before they were major league-ready due to a lack of funds to sign placeholding free agents to let them develop in the minor leagues, Gotay was one of their top prospects.
He was called up at the tender, young age of 21 after posting a .290/.373/.441 line in AAA, and put together a pretty decent season for his age, hitting .270. The next season, he hit .227 and was sent down, then traded to the Mets the season after that.
If you read only that paragraph, Ruben Gotay is a failed ex-prospect.
Of course, as you know, he had a very useful season with the Mets last year, hitting around .340 until the acquisition of Luis Castillo, after which his playing time vanished and his average suffered as a result. It’s hard to pinch-hit, guys. Not everyone is Marlon Anderson.
What’s really interesting, though, is two things: One, the excellent at-bats he had last season, working the count and displaying the kind of plate discipline and maturity you’d love to see Jose Reyes have; and two, the fact that at age 19, in A ball, he hit 42 doubles and 9 home runs, good for a .285/.377/.456 line. That’s 42 doubles, in case you missed it the first time. Do you know how insane that is for a 19-year-old? That’s insane. And it shows that he’s got a lot of pop in his bat — which we did see last year, because he hits the ball hard.
So what, you ask, is Ruben Gotay’s upside?
Brandon Phillips, says I.
Phillips, the top-prospect-turned-bust-turned-budding-star, had some real tough times when the Indians brought him up at ages 21, 22 and 23, hitting for very low average and very low power. He was then acquired by Cincinnati, and there he has developed into one of the best-hitting second basemen in all of baseball.
Interestingly, most of his minor-league numbers are significantly worse than Gotay’s. The career parallels are, I think, pretty close, and if you put a Gotay/Easley platoon out there in ‘08, you’ll lose a little defense, but you’ll gain a lot of offense over a guy like Castillo or Eckstein, singles hitters both. Because if I can point to just one problem with the Mets’ offense over the past several years, it’s that they’ve had too many guys who just hit singles. Castillo, Lo Duca, Green, Delgado… TOO MANY SINGLES.
Extra bases are the name of the game, baby.
Free Ruben Gotay.
We do not need David Eckstein or Luis Castillo. Both are looking for contracts in the 4 year range for between 8-10 million a year. Keep in mind that’s roughly 40 million over 4 years. Both of these players have hit their early 30’s- a time where production decreases and injuries increase. Give Ruben Gotay a shot at 2nd base from what we’ve seen he’s got potential. If Gotay does not work Easley can also play 2nd. We don’t need another aging veteran to earn 10 million a year and not produce (cough Pedro+Delgado). Please Minaya do not make another mistake on an over-the-hill vet.
Screw Castillo, he’s aging and a bad influence on Reyes.
Eckstein will be a great fireplug the team sorely needs and will be a good influence on Reyes.
Get rid of Alou and Delgado and Mota and Sosa.
Time to clean up and get some quality for the team.
My real dream is that Omar gets fired and the new GM gets rid of Willie but I know Wilpon doesnt have the guts or brains to do it.
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[...] Eckstein The Wilpons personally escorted Eckstein around the Tri-state area and treated him to lunch, then pulled away a three-year contract offer when they found out he [...]
This Franchise is not Mickey Mouse by any stretch. If the options existed this year to sign a Beltran, Pedro, Wagner type player at a position of need …they would do it. They want to improve but are limited by the fact that money alone can not solve this teams problems.
What are realistically the METS needs?
1) Ace Level Starting Pitcher
2) Solid 8th inning capable Reliever
3) Acceptable #5 starter
4) Long man to be better than Aaron Sele
I see the above 4 things as the most important areas on the team to address.
CF, SS, 3b, 1b, LF, and Bench (all better than league avg)
Ca, 2b, RF (assuming Milledge) all about league average
With the 4 most pressing needs listed above, where are the guys on the FA list that can make it happen for us????
Linebrink, Prior, Wood, Benson, Silva, Livan, Colon, etc, etc. NOne of them really improve anything other than perhaps signing some of the starters would probably improve our options at the number 5 spot in the rotation.
i think they prefer to fix the long man in the relief role from within with either Duque or Jorge Sosa
Now…according to your logic, we should have paid the years and money necessary to get Posada to Catch and Mariano to be our closer. Posada signed a big deal as a catcher which takes him to the ripe young age of 40 as a catcher. It would have required us to pay him til at least he was 41 to come here. I don’t want that and you should not either. Same arguement can be made for Mo. He is 38 now. He has been offered a 3 yr deal with the Yanks. If we want him to come, we must offer at least 4 years taking him to the ripe young age of 42. Do you realistically think he can be effective at the conclusion of that contract?
Bottom line..i get your frustration but to fix the problems we have, we need to make trades and they require other teams to make it happen. You know this but you prefer to continue to rail the same lines over and over for the past week to simply make the same points. In the end, you know I speak the truth. You can’t fix this problem with money alone