|
In an interview with MLB.com, Billy Wagner spoke candidly on the state of the Mets and their off-season plans.
Among other things, Wagner discusses how the loss of LHP Tom Glavine and C Paul Lo Duca, combined with the activity of the Braves and Phillies, could make the Mets a third-place team.
Wagner as quoted by Marty Noble…
“We’ve lost 13 games [Glavine's victory total], and now we are going have to give up something to get those games back. I’m afraid we’re just going to create other holes if we give up a [Lastings] Milledge, a [Mike] Pelfrey or a [Aaron] Heilman…Without Aaron, it’d be like another 10 or 12 [games]. It would be a big chance to take. Without Aaron, [the bullpen] don’t even exist. No way you can trade him.”
…valid concerns by wagner, but if the answer isn’t there in free agency, the Mets have to give to get…glavine is harder to replace than a heilman, milledge or pelfrey, which is precisely why the Mets may be willing to part with those guys to find glavine’s replacement…besides, the better the rotation is, the less important the middle relief is…
Wagner, speaking about the bullpen…
“In Willie Randolph’s bullpen, it’s different. He wants guys to be able to go 2.2 innings or one-third of an inning or in between. That’s how he wants it. But guys just want to know, so they can prepare themselves and be comfortable…
“The idea is to get them into situations where they can be successful. I mean, you wouldn’t ask Carlos Delgado to bunt.”
…the article is definitely worth the read, but people will likely make a bigger deal out of this than necessary…it isn’t anything wagner hasn’t said to Mets management before, and i’m sure his comments are no different than the concerns of other players and fans…so, while i’d rather him not call out his manager, i also know wagner just wants to win and he’s never been one to beat around the bush…you know, it’s ‘billy being billy,’ if you will…
frankly I don’t know what he wants the mets to do to improve.
like chris said, those players are expendable. especially milledge with two other outstanding outfield prospects who likely aren’t going to cause a clubhouse distraction.
we have to be careful when getting a player for more than 10 million for multiple years (e.g: carlos silva)
next year, we will have a big hole at 1st base, leftfied and possibly catcher as well.
we have a hole at catcher and possibly right field for this upcoming year if we trade milledge.
we need atleast 2 starting pitchers this year.
our best move is haren or bedard — both are a couple of years away from free agency and arent making that much money yet. This will allow us to make a run at tiexeira for 1st base next year or any other big time player.
although i would love to have him, whereever santana goes this year, he will go there and sign a 7 year contract after pitching 4 straight years of 200+ innings. theres no way he’ll be dominant for most of those 7 years and no way he’ll be healthy those 7 years.
on the other hand, haren has only pitched 1 or 2 major league seasons over 150 innings, he has alot left in his arm.
this package should do it - mulvey, heilman, gomez and gotay/b prospect
To be fair, we also have close to 45 million coming off the books next year between the contracts of Delgado, Pedro, El Duque, Alou, and Estrada. Nevermind the money that’s been freed up already by by losing Glavine, Valentin, Lo Duca, and Mota (Although adding Estrada). Which by my quick calculations is near another 20 million.
I agree you don’t want to trade all the kids because you want some cheap options, but we have the money to be able to buy talent next offseason and this offseason. A guy like Silva isn’t going to prevent a big market team like us from spending money in the future.
Glavine (4.5), Valentin (3.8), Lo Duca (6.25), and Mota (1.8) only come to about 16.6mil, if you include the money we paid to Glavine for his buyout. Also, Green saves another 3mil which does equal 20.
But keep in mind all the players that are getting raises this year: Reyes and Delgado get mil dollar raises, El Duque gets 2mil more, Wright gets 4mil more, Beltran is getting 6.5 mil more this year than last, OP, Maine and Feliciano should get more in arbitration… only Pedro gets a decrease (3mil less), so after a while that all adds up too.
Wagner needs to be traded to he’s a choke artist…how can our closer say we look like a 3rd place team for next year..yeah maybe if he keeps blowing saves…remember Glavine blew the most important game last year..
Exactly! If Wagner doesn’t blow a few games, maybe they’re World Champs! It’s his fault!!!
Uh, wow. Wagner is the anti-David Wright. David may think these things, but he knows that he has a responsibility to say the right thing. Positive things.
I don’t wonder anymore why Wagner has been an outcast in every clubhouse he has been in.
The offseason has just started and it sounds like Billy is panicking.
Lets see what the final product is……
This is why Billy Wagner drives me crazy. Mr. “Know Your Place Rook” is the biggest loose cannon out there - he makes Sheffield seem shy and team-oriented.
On top of that his “logic” (and I use that term loosely) makes absolutely no sense…
“We lost 13 games” (Glavine’s win total).”
Um…. yeah - assuming the guy you replace him with NEVER WINS A GAME ALL SEASON! Even an average starter will win about 10-12 games. Heck, bad as Pelfrey was last season, his numbers projected to 8 wins over a full season.
“Without Aaron, it’d be another 10-12 games.”
Billy, are you on drugs??? No one defends Aaron Heilman more than I do - but there is no freaking way he (or any other setup man in baseball) is singlehandedly responsible for a dozen wins a season. Look… last year, there were nine games the Mets wound up losing in which Guillermo Mota gave up at least one run. So basically, if you blame all of those losses on him and him alone… Mota 2007 would still only cost a team about 6 games compared to Eckerlsey 1990 (the year he saved 45 and posted a 1.35 ERA).
Is Billy really that stupid that he thinks losing Glavine + Heilman would cost us 23-25 wins next year? In other words, we would suddenly finish with 63-65 wins, the WORST RECORD IN BASEBALL - worse than Tampa Bay and Kansas City???
Give me a break…
well done
Nice post!
Oh, I forgot to add: Its one thing to be blunt with management, its another thing to be blunt with a reporter. He didn’t say one positive thing in that whole article.
well he probably did say some positive stuff but the reporter probably chose not to put it in…
Perhaps Wagner’s agenda was to hype up our talent to get more in return, as most met fans, at least at this site, seem to under value our guys.
See this doesn’t make sense to me. With this logic, if the Mets were to keep Glavine and Lo Duca, and keep Millege, Heilman, Pelfrey, etc… they will have the same production as last year, and they will once again be a second place team. Just because you lose a player does not mean that somebody else will not step up and fill that hole. Players improve, players decline, its never a given what a player, or team, will do the next season. I think the Mets need change, preferably improvement, so that they can put 2007 behind them.
he says this of lo duca:
“He battled every day, and we had some guys who didn’t show up every day. They were satisfied if they got a hit and we lost. Paul was [angry] if he had four hits and we lost.”
i wonder who the other guys are that hes referring to…
Probably the rest of the team. Seriously, did it look like anyone else cared?
100% agree with Wagner based on what I saw. Why losing Lo Duca was so detrimental to the team. Still having a hard time facing the fact that Lo Duca is gone……
The Billy Wagner “I said that, but I was Misquoted” statement coming soon…….
He’s just saying what everybody’s thinking. Yohan is almost definitely a no, face it the mets do not have the prospects for him. Any other top quality starter is probably not gonna happen, yet will require all the mets prospects for, which although easier to replace, they will still need to be replaced.
the only progress the mets have made so far is getting rid of mota.
Wait and see what the mets do before you bash the mets, i understand that. But don’t bash Wagner for stating the obvious at this point and time.
Who is Wagner to bash the Mets? All his blown saves and horrible outings at the end of the year? Each time he spoke out the Mets got worse, and YOHAN would be a great player if he existed….can we at least have comments made from people who have a clue?
The fact that LoDuca sometimes looks like he is hitting with a whiffle bat doesn’t concern Billy? Actually, I am pretty sick of Billy, and you can take his so-called “honesty” and shove it. How reassuring is it to hear a closer say “I suck” 10 or 12 times a year when he is pocketing 10-12 million a year?
Might as well re-post this where it belongs..
Well, at least Wagner isn’t afraid to share his opinion!
A couple of comments (from what I can remember of his ramblings. Hey, think he posts here?)
1) Glavine’s is effectively being replaced by Pedro. May not throw quite as many innings (probably will per start, but may need a break or two). I’m sure he can squeak out 13 wins along the way.
2) Heilmann is important, but if they get someone as good back, AH can be replaced (or supplemented). I see Wags point though about trading someone and leaving a hole elsewhere. Sanchez is the wild card here. If he comes back strong, the BP is much better.
3) Paulie’s fire was wonderful, but it didn’t really seem to help too much! Fire, grit etc. are overrated. What they neglected to do down the stretch was pitch well enough. Wagner included. Replacing him with someone of t least equal ability won’t weaken the team.
For all the talk of the collapse, choking, etc. the September fade still came down to starters gassing out, and the BP coughing up a ridiculous amount of large (4 runs or more) leads. A bad combo.
Still, the guys were trying, maybe too hard if anything. And the big issue with the starters was having to run out Chan Ho, lawrence etc. for a while to cover for the injuries (El Duque).
4) El Duque probably can’t handle the set up role (pitching every day for a stretch), but in a Sele/Swing role, he could be very effective. Pretty much to old Darren oliver role. Come in if the starter gets a quick hook, or pitch 3 innings in a blowout. Basically, take the load of the back end guys. No more Smith/Mota in the 4th inning deals.
not to mention maybe pitch the 6th or 7th of a game if say a feliciano or smith need the day off.
Hey Billy, shut up and pitch.
Leave the ridiculously obvious commenting to us nitwits on MetsBlog
hahaha
amen to that !!!
. . . wait a minute
JR (and Chris) agree that people will blow these comments out of proportion and that need not be done. At the same time, this is a guy who came to the Mets from a team where the shortstop yapped before the season about his team being the team to beat. Then that guy backed it up and they took first place. He was criticized for it, but at least he was saying something positive about his team. These are the comments Billy wants to go into the season having to contend with? That the team possibly is only a third place team? Its going to be kind of lame when he then says “well we’ll use my belief that we’re not so good as motivation to be better”…
The Mets don’t need a pitcher more than they need a right fielder.
Maine, Perez, Pedro, Pelf, Humber, Duque, and Mulvey are good enough in their spots. Perez might be the best no,3 starter in the N.L. And yes, Pedro is effectively replacing Glavine.
Milledge is too good a bet, and too young and too cheap, to go around saying nonsensical things about how replaceable he is. Who? Rowand? $15M more for comparable production and less potential? It’s like when silly people talk about how we should trade Reyes and replace him with Eckstein.
Actually, if Sanchez approaches his 2006 self, and if Muniz and Padilla are gangbusters, I would strongly consider making him the closer and trading Wagner. People will think I’m crazy, but Heilman is undervalued. He is a consistent and effective reliever who never seems to get his due. Wagner by himself could get you a nice package in return for a team that needs a closer.
Are you the only sane person on this board?
We sane are few and far between.
On paper I agree with you. If this were a computer simulation, you could trade Wagner, get a good windfall, and slot Heilman into the closer role without losing much. (I have no faith in Muniz, and we have to see how Padilla does with a rebuilt arm). In fact, if we hadn’t traded for Wagner a couple of years ago, we probably would have done that.
The problem is - much as I like what Heilman brings to the table, he’s not emotionally equipped to be a closer. He still has a starter’s mindset and admittedly struggles with the fact that he has to come into games in situations where he has to be effective right away and can’t take an inning to figure out his stuff. He’s been an elite 8th inning guy and I think he could still be an effective starter. But right now, with the exception of Wagner, I’m not sure we have anyone with a closer’s mindset.
I think he’s talking about Sanchez closing, not Heilman (assuming Sanchez is the same pitcher we last saw)
Interesting idea, 4Joe
The problem is, with that rotation and Pedro replacing Glavine, you’ve basically exchanged Pedro’s stuff of Glavine’s dependability. This rotation does not lack “stuff”. Its got plenty of it