|
|
|
In ESPN.com’s Rumor Central, Jayson Stark reports that, 
instead of pursuing Johan Santana, the Dodgers have turned their attention to Hiroki Kuroda, Joe Blanton and Dan Haren.
…the heavy buzz from the west coast has long favored the Dodgers and D’Backs, when it comes haren and blanton - with names such as Carlos Quentin and Matt Kemp repeatedly being mentioned…
In the New York Post, Mark Hale talks with A’s Assistant GM David Forst, who says his club has still yet to decide on whether to trade Blanton or Haren.
…as i wrote yesterday, there is more and more buzz out of Oakland suggesting that the A’s will not seriously field offers for haren until the Twins make a decision on Johan Santana…once santana is set, the A’s will first consider moving haren, but oakland may look to acquire a pitcher more like John Maine, instead of Mike Pelfrey or Aaron Heilman, because they want a semi-established, zero-to-three starting pitcher…if they get no movement on haren, oakland may next consider moving Joe Blanton, who is still arbitration eligible, and essentially the type of pitcher they hope to get, not trade away, in a deal for haren…
Contract extension talks between the Orioles and Erik Bedard stalled yesterday, explains Jeff Zrebiec in the Baltimore Sun, ‘increasing the likelihood that team officials will spend part of next week’s winter meetings contemplating trade offers for the ace left-hander.’
According to Zrebiec, the Mets recently offered a package of Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber and Aaron Heilman to get Bedard, but were turned down.
Similarly, in a recent update for FOXSports.com, Ken Rosenthal writes that the Padres have had internal discussions about trading this year’s Cy Young winner, Jake Peavy, ‘but the deal would need to be heavily weighted in their favor.’
According to Peavey’s agent, writes Rosenthal, the Padres and Peavy would like to agree on a long-term deal, but there is pressure to pay him along the lines of what CC Sabathia and John Santana may get, which is something the Padres have been historically unwilling to do.
 |
 |
 |
RSS 2.0 Both comments and pings are currently closed.
This is what I don’t understand. Why trade a guy like Maine, who will give you 14-16 wins for a guy like Blanton who AT MOST will give you 17-18 wins? You’re just swapping pitchers. What’s the point?
They take us for morons, that’s why. Makes no sense unless they’re packaging Haren.
By that, I mean Haren & Blanton for Maine and prospects.
Read the post again. It wouldn’t be trading Maine for Blanton. They’d want a pitcher like Maine back for Haren is currently better than both Maine and Blanton which, of course is smart on Beane’s half.
Either way, it makes no sense to get rid of Maine or Perez or Pedro. We have both Pelfrey and El Duque that we could go with but want to upgrade. Duque should go to the pen in the long role. This is going to get dragged out. Omar should at the very least go sign either Silva or Livan NOW. If we wait for Haren or Santana to shake out, we will be left out in the cold for the second straight off-season. Make something happen now to fill the 4 or 5 pitching hole.
If you were Erik Bedard would you want to resign with Baltimore? I thought not.
These guys absolutely have to trade him, and with his history of injury, the sooner the better.
omar go get santana, becket, webb, harden and peavy. for cash considerations. don’t you come back to new york until you get em done. include mr met in that package if you have to.
no way man, not mr met!!!!!!!!!!
The market for starting pitching is just getting absurd. We need to start developing our own.
the Mets recently offered a package of Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber and Aaron Heilman to get Bedard, but were turned dow
I wonder if that is true. Seems like if one more player was thrown into the package or substituted, it would be about right, because as there are no guarantees that any of those 3 will become phenoms, Bedard is not yet a sure thing.
And if it is true, I wonder if the O’s made a counteroffer (and if so, what it was).
the report was they were not “ready to trade him yet” because they want to resign him.
You wonder if the difference between Pelfrey and Humber would be enough to get that deal done and whether Milledge for Gomez would as well. Lord knows the O’s would want Heilman to improve the pen after Ray and Baez got hurt last year and Miller and Bradford didn’t earn their paychecks.
Its getting more and more clearer that the Mets will not get an Ace pitcher.
Livan can be an ace, believe you me.
And if this is so, then it will be for good reason…
Right now, these teams are trying to rob us (and other teams) blind for these pitchers. Sometimes people on this blog and others think it is easy to make these deals– we don’t know the back-and-forth of the negotiations and how each organization values its players and how it sees itself from a short- and long-term perspective. Sure, you can take a purely narrow focus and say, let’s deal players A through G, but do you really see how that losing those particular players ripple through the organization? None of us can see that.
So, let’s let Omar do his thing. If he doesn’t produce a winning club this year, well, we know what will happen.
Omar could have thrown a ton of money at A-ROD and traded Reyes for Santana - period! UNLESS - the Wilpons won’t open up the purse strings AND/OR sign a pitcher for more than 5 years, as somebody mentioned. If any of these are true, I’d give Omar a bit more of a pass than I’m willing to otherwise.
Buy low, sell high.
Mets prospects are highly undervalued. So let’s just keep them in place and not do anything just for the sake of doing something.
Why is everyone and their mother so low on the Mets prospects?
If I was a team as bad as the Orioles I would love to get a young Mike Pelfrey and Carlos Gomez to boot. Some package ought to be sufficient for Bedard. Can Mike Pelfrey or Phil Humber be worse than Daniel Cabrera pitching every 5th day? From what all the “experts” say though, the Mets should just forget making any trade for an ace because everyone else has such better prospects. I don’t buy it personally. I’d like to hear others’ thoughts.
I’m not a big fan of our prospects. But to be fair, I’m not too big on other team’s prospects either.
Matt Kemp? Carlos Quentin? Phillip Hughes? Ellsbury (They say his ceiling is Johnny Damon-lol)? Are they going to be superstars? Are they that much better than MIlledge?
I do think Joba’s the special one of the bunch. But besides him, it’s all the same low level, take a gamble on type players.
Based on that Keith Law article reference yesterday, it seems the people who are down on the Mets prospects seem to be the NY sports commentators. Gomez, Martinez and Pelfry are all viewed favorably by most scouts.
I think its more a question of the combination of prospects the Mets are willing to part with.
combo? def could be.
But, you gotta give some to get some, ya know?
Does anyone else get the sense that we are not the front runners to get any of these guys? Prediction….
Santana to the red sox
Peavy to the Yankees
Bedard to the Angels
Haren stays put (because Beane is like that)
Blanton to the Dodgers
Probably not this exact but some combination of what I listed up here…
Mets…well It looks tlike the crap house.
Silva and Livan or Silva and Colon….
I hope not but I have a bad feeling that everyone else seems to be in a better position to get deals done.
I concur.
“Silva and Livan or Silva and Colon….”
Please. Noooooooooo. Please. It’s looking bleak.
Bleak indeed. We might have to aquire as many young arms with good stuff as we can get and hope they shape under Peterson al la Oliver Perez….not what I want going into next season.
I’d rather they take a flyer on Colon than sign Livan.
I’d hate to end up not getting ANY of these pitchers we have been dying to acquire (Santana, Haren, Bedard, etc) this off-season, only because my expectations have been built up unreasonably. Minaya would have been wise to not announce to the world that we WILL acquire an “ace”. Thanks, Omar. You just increased the going rate for starters for anyone you would have traded for.
However, it wouldn’t be the “end of the world” if we had to settle for Colon and Jennings (prefer them over Hernandez & Silva). I could even live with Silva in a worst case scenario, if it meant that we could acquire Santana via free agency in the ‘08′/’09 off-season.
It sounds like the Red Sox & Yanks won’t pony up Ellsbury & Bucholz or Cano & Hughes, respectively. If the Twins keep taking a hard line with the Sox & Yanks, as they should, then that means NO TEAM will be able to afford Santana in a trade this off-season… which in turn betters our chances to acquire Santana after next season. And that’s something most of us fans are hoping for.
If all it will cost us is our 1st round draft pick and sick money to outbid the Yanks and Sox for Santana, I’d say that’s better than trading our entire farm away. Thus, signing a “stopgap” like Hernandez, Colon or Silva I could live with in the big picture of things, if that would mean we can sign a better player down the road (like Santana, Peavy, Teixeira, etc) without emptying the cupboard bare of all our prospect chips.
Sometimes when you are not dealt a very good hand (a combination of a seller’s market and crappy free agent pool), its best to not play that game. Just hang on to your most valuable trade commodities.
Don’t sign any of these free agent pitchers for 4 years, or a reliever for more than 2 years (or 1 year and an option).
Don’t force trades for marginal talent upgrades that weaken us later at other positions down the road.
It’s better to just withdraw from all this trade hyperbole going on this off-season and seeing what our youngtsers can do for us to build their value back up (assuming it was down to begin with). It wouldn’t hurt for Gomez & Martinez to mature some more, and for Pelfrey & Humber & Mulvey to take the next steps in their development so that they will have increased value to the Mets or to some other team in trade. If that’s accomplished, THEN we should hit the free agent market HARD next off-season instead of this year.
Let’s face it, we aren’t getting a top of the line starter…
Yeah, there is just this feeling in the pit of my stomach that we are not getting any no.1 (or no.2) starter. Everyone takes so much joy in talking up the Fankees prospects (writers, radio guys-Mike Francesa) and simultaneously belittling our prospects. Ian Kennedy, really guys, is that gonna get you Johan? The guy who said these teams are really milking the lack of free agent piching is absolutely correct. The price tags on these pitchers who probably won’t even get traded are insanely high.
Ian Kennedy? Phillip Hughes? I laugh.
Is Hughes any better than Pelfrey? Yet, the perception is that he’s a stud prospect and Pelf will never get there.
Or concentrate on smaller fish with upside. Along the lines of Jeremy Bonderman, Javier Vasquez, Ian Snell, Nick Lowry, Cliff Lee, etc
We really can’t go into the season with the number 5 spot not being a pretty good pitcher. One can see a decent though unstable, due to possible injury, rotation of Duque, Pedro, Maine and Ollie. Just need a real #5 pitcher option and another guy in house to protect against real injury. I’d trade one of the Humber, Pelfrey Mulvey group and one of the Milledge Gomez group , if it were necessary, to get another #3 type to come here and take our 5th spot in the rotation.
For example…….Mets trade Humber and Gomez for Ian Snell.
Actually…now that I have said that out loud. Maybe it just makes more sense if the goal is to solidify the rotation with more decent arms likely to produce 12 wins guys…..Sign Silva or Colon or Jason Jennings and see what comes of it.
Sign one soon and you have less “pressure”
I’m not adverse to your idea. I’d be okay with it as long as Pedro stays healthy, but I don’t want to hang on to these #3/4s for 3-4 years.
Agreed…I had the same thought I just posted above…
How do you put Bonderman on the same level as Cliff Lee? Bonderman is significantly better.
I do agree with you though, a young guy with top of the rotation “potential”, like Cliff Lee, Jennings, or Dontrelle (though his price tag is probably too high) makes a lot of sense for this team in addition to an innings eater like Livan or Silva at the back end of the rotation.
I like Livan a little better, because we can probably sign him for fewer years.
I much prefer Bonderman to Cliff Lee. Bonderman’s 24 and has 4 consecutive years of double digit wins.
Way more potential.
I want no part of Dontrelle. As Darling broke it down, he’s getting too thick and less flexible and now tops his fastball at 88. Oh yea, his 5.17 ERA doesn’t help his case. For him, we’ll pay premium for a pitcher that needs to be fixed.
Bonderman is the better pitcher with less upside though. He is closer to his ceiling now. I like him a lot and would definitely want a guy like that. he and Vasquez are too intriguing guys not getting alot of mention anywhere but if the right deal came by…they are movable parts for their teams
Pitching a full year of course would be key.
But, if your top 3 are all solid for 15 (Pedro, Maine, Perez), and possibly more of course, and your 4/5 group can put up 12 each, where are you?
Well, that is 69 wins, and assumes that you pitch the same 5 all year. If you get a 1/2 year, assume the guys that share the spot combine for the 12.
So that leaves about 21 wins from the pen to get to 90. That is probably about normal for the pen, right? I of course have no idea what they got last year!
This is why the mets fell short last year. Not the #1 starter, but the #5.
It would be nice to see GMs take a stand and stop the nonsense of players saying “I have to get paid what Player-A gets or I’m walking.” Start giving shorter, incentive laden deals and then maybe a club like the Twins could retain the best pitcher in baseball for reasonable/fair salary….
Anywho…With the deals supposedly offered, I’d rather stand pat and hope for the best. No way do you add more to that Bedard deal.
Some sucker will always pay more. And in some cases, some teams will outbid themselves.
Think Knicks + Allan Houston. lol
I mentioned this the other day. If no real ace comes up then maybe we look in another direction.
How about E. Santana? He has a ton of potential and would fit fine as our #5. Now for the fun part of it, a salary dump by the Angels to keep our best prospects. We take on Garrett Anderson’s contract. They have a full OF and would love to get rid of some money to be able to use for Cabrerra and extending Vlad.
Anderson gives us the LH bat we need.
Or Texas, Millwood’s contract is terrible. 30 million over 3 years. However, a return to the NL and the fact that he was dominant only a couple of years ago might be worth the risk of him being our 4/5. If we take Millwood’s contract and pry away Otsuka?
Pelfrey and Muinz?
Rotation
Pedro, Maine, Perez, Millwood, E. Santana with Elduque ready.
Pen
Wagner, Sanchez, Otsuka, Heilman, Feliciano, Show, Elduque :)
Hmmm. Millwood + Otsuka for not much. I’m listening . . .
I’m not dealing Pelfrey for Millwood.
It’s not Pelfrey for Millwood, it’s Pelfrey for a dominant setup man and Millwood.
“Teams that believe they might be able to obtain Blanton for less than it would take to get Haren will be disappointed, however. Beane plans to ask for the same prospects for Blanton that he would seek for Haren. The steep price would be three or four hotshot youngsters, can’t-miss types who would go onto the 40-man roster and therefore be close to big-league ready. ”
no thank you
We are also considering trading John Maine but only if we get a minimum of 3 “all star” type pitching prospects in return.
Trading for Olliver Perez will cost 2 “hotshot pitching prospects” and one dynamite 1b prospect.
Too much posturing going on. It is all a farse. Deals get done in the real world or they don’t get done
“Teams that believe they might be able to obtain Blanton for less than it would take to get Haren will be disappointed, however. Beane plans to ask for the same prospects for Blanton that he would seek for Haren. The steep price would be three or four hotshot youngsters, can’t-miss types who would go onto the 40-man roster and therefore be close to big-league ready. ”
hahaha
Blanton and Haren are the second coming of Maddux and Glavine (think 15 years ago, not that 1/3IP debacle)?
Just to go on a complete tangent, if pitching is at this much of a premium, Omar should forget about buying, and start selling! Rebuild the team that way.
Some of the names being bandied about that the A’s can get for Blanton are stange, and almost obscene for haren or Bedard.
Well, Maine should be worth a motherload of young talent too. Perez not as much, just since he will be a FA at the end of 2008.
Not thta I want to trade Maine, but instead of trading him + 3 other prospects for a marginally better SP, fill other holes. If they can get a prospect SP, or a stud OF + C prospect, they could almost rebuild the team that way.
Of course, it creates a big hole, but it would be a calculated risk that you could make the team strong enough overall, and fill the gaps with the younger guys, and whatever you get of the scrap heap (a Silva type innings eater + a colon reclamation project).
Risky, but a rotation of Pedro, Perez, El Duque, Pelfrey, Silva, Colon, Humber, (pick 5 from here) is at least functiional.
The key of course is getting a boat load of talent back if you do trade him. Hey, it is worth at least exploring.
Plus, if other GMs are thinking they will be robbing Omar, it will certainly mess with their heads, and maybe make them lower their price?
You beat me to it though i posted something above yours about the same a few minutes later.
Terrific idea in my opinion if we are really looking to 2009 instead of 2008.
Maine for at least one stud pitching prospect and one stud first base prospect plus filler. Sign Silva and Colon.
Mets rotation is ….
Pedro, Duque, Silva, Perez, Colon with Pelfrey and Humber and Mulvey in waiting plus a new stud ptiching prospect in AAA or AA gaining experience. Plus we get an in house option next year to go to bat with at 1b and save $16M by releasing Delgado
works for me.
Besides, they still have the talent to win in 2008, and could really be kicking butt in 2009+
Also key that they keep the bulk of the top young guys (pelfrey, Milledge, F Mart).
This astonishing to me. Mets fans (as represented by this blog) just did a complete 180 about face and want to become sellers and not buyers. We went from demanding the best pitcher in baseball as a way to seriously contend for a WS championship in 2008 to looking to rebuild the farm system by trading away OUR young talented pitchers (Maine, Oli)!
Now I do see the logic in this approach. Since we are fearing that we wont get a ace, and seeing how much teams are asking for their young, marginally successful major league pitchers, why not turn the tables and gather prospects so that next time a Santana comes on the market we have the chips to acquire him.
The problems with this logic are as follows: First of all, do you actually want the Mets to be bad next year!? Can the Mets ever be a decent team for more than 2 consecutive years!? We all thought this team would come right back in 2007 after the 2006 heartbreak and be contending for the next 5 years. Now, simply because it seems like we MIGHT not get an ace starter (which we dont know yet) we are going to throw in the towel? This is not Kansas City or Tampa Bay! This is a team that has its own cable network, drew 3.8 mil fans and is opening a new stadium! Please. Would the Yankees rebuild? Then we shouldnt either. Additionally, who knows when the next Santana will come on the market. It may be 5-10 years from now.
My theory is to always trade prospects for stars because although we focus on the few prospects we let go that turned out to be good, we tend to forget the significantly more who dont even make the majors. I for one am not willing to give up on 2008.
You know the deal, when the shoe’s on the other foot, they’ll cry foul.
Here’s another off the wall one that sounds fun.
Angles get Delgado, Gomez, Gotay, a prospect and cash.
Mets get E. Santana, Anderson, Morales, Figgins.
Angles trade Gomez, and bounty of prospects to Marlins for Cabrerra.
Figgins becomes super sub and plays all positions getting 5 games a week. Santana takes 5 spot in rotation. Morales becomes the 1st baseman of the future. And he’s Cuban :).
Why don’t we go after Cabrera and try to convert him to LF/1B? He’s probably the premiere NL hitter for the next decade.
And we know Marlins will deal to us. They’re our AAA+1. Except of course they like to knock us out of the playoffs too.