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	<title>Comments on: Buzz: The Other Trade Market for Pitchers</title>
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		<title>By: 1DoggLJ</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49365</link>
		<dc:creator>1DoggLJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49365</guid>
		<description>This astonishing to me. Mets fans (as represented by this blog) just did a complete 180 about face and want to become sellers and not buyers. We went from demanding the best pitcher in baseball as a way to seriously contend for a WS championship in 2008 to looking to rebuild the farm system by trading away OUR young talented pitchers (Maine, Oli)!

Now I do see the logic in this approach. Since we are fearing that we wont get a ace, and seeing how much teams are asking for their young, marginally successful major league pitchers, why not turn the tables and gather prospects so that next time a Santana comes on the market we have the chips to acquire him. 

The problems with this logic are as follows: First of all, do you actually want the Mets to be bad next year!? Can the Mets ever be a decent team for more than 2 consecutive years!? We all thought this team would come right back in 2007 after the 2006 heartbreak and be contending for the next 5 years. Now, simply because it seems like we MIGHT not get an ace starter (which we dont know yet) we are going to throw in the towel? This is not Kansas City or Tampa Bay! This is a team that has its own cable network, drew 3.8 mil fans and is opening a new stadium! Please. Would the Yankees rebuild? Then we shouldnt either. Additionally, who knows when the next Santana will come on the market. It may be 5-10 years from now.

My theory is to always trade prospects for stars because although we focus on the few prospects we let go that turned out to be good, we tend to forget the significantly more who dont even make the majors. I for one am not willing to give up on 2008.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This astonishing to me. Mets fans (as represented by this blog) just did a complete 180 about face and want to become sellers and not buyers. We went from demanding the best pitcher in baseball as a way to seriously contend for a WS championship in 2008 to looking to rebuild the farm system by trading away OUR young talented pitchers (Maine, Oli)!</p>
<p>Now I do see the logic in this approach. Since we are fearing that we wont get a ace, and seeing how much teams are asking for their young, marginally successful major league pitchers, why not turn the tables and gather prospects so that next time a Santana comes on the market we have the chips to acquire him. </p>
<p>The problems with this logic are as follows: First of all, do you actually want the Mets to be bad next year!? Can the Mets ever be a decent team for more than 2 consecutive years!? We all thought this team would come right back in 2007 after the 2006 heartbreak and be contending for the next 5 years. Now, simply because it seems like we MIGHT not get an ace starter (which we dont know yet) we are going to throw in the towel? This is not Kansas City or Tampa Bay! This is a team that has its own cable network, drew 3.8 mil fans and is opening a new stadium! Please. Would the Yankees rebuild? Then we shouldnt either. Additionally, who knows when the next Santana will come on the market. It may be 5-10 years from now.</p>
<p>My theory is to always trade prospects for stars because although we focus on the few prospects we let go that turned out to be good, we tend to forget the significantly more who dont even make the majors. I for one am not willing to give up on 2008.</p>
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		<title>By: CleonJones</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49295</link>
		<dc:creator>CleonJones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49295</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d hate to end up not getting ANY of these pitchers we have been dying to acquire (Santana, Haren, Bedard, etc) this off-season, only because my expectations have been built up unreasonably. Minaya would have been wise to not announce to the world that we WILL acquire an &quot;ace&quot;. Thanks, Omar. You just increased the going rate for starters for anyone you would have traded for.

However, it wouldn&#039;t be the &quot;end of the world&quot; if we had to settle for Colon and Jennings (prefer them over Hernandez &amp; Silva). I could even live with Silva in a worst case scenario, if it meant that we could acquire Santana via free agency in the &#039;08&#039;/&#039;09 off-season.

It sounds like the Red Sox &amp; Yanks won&#039;t pony up Ellsbury &amp; Bucholz or Cano &amp; Hughes, respectively. If the Twins keep taking a hard line with the Sox &amp; Yanks, as they should, then that means NO TEAM will be able to afford Santana in a trade this off-season... which in turn betters our chances to acquire Santana after next season. And that&#039;s something most of us fans are hoping for.

If all it will cost us is our 1st round draft pick and sick money to outbid the Yanks and Sox for Santana, I&#039;d say that&#039;s better than trading our entire farm away. Thus, signing a &quot;stopgap&quot; like Hernandez, Colon or Silva I could live with in the big picture of things, if that would mean we can sign a better player down the road (like Santana, Peavy, Teixeira, etc) without emptying the cupboard bare of all our prospect chips.

Sometimes when you are not dealt a very good hand (a combination of a seller&#039;s market and crappy free agent pool), its best to not play that game. Just hang on to your most valuable trade commodities.

Don&#039;t sign any of these free agent pitchers for 4 years, or a reliever for more than 2 years (or 1 year and an option).

Don&#039;t force trades for marginal talent upgrades that weaken us later at other positions down the road.

It&#039;s better to just withdraw from all this trade hyperbole going on this off-season and seeing what our youngtsers can do for us to build their value back up (assuming it was down to begin with). It wouldn&#039;t hurt for Gomez &amp; Martinez to mature some more, and for Pelfrey &amp; Humber &amp; Mulvey to take the next steps in their development so that they will have increased value to the Mets or to some other team in trade. If that&#039;s accomplished, THEN we should hit the free agent market HARD next off-season instead of this year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d hate to end up not getting ANY of these pitchers we have been dying to acquire (Santana, Haren, Bedard, etc) this off-season, only because my expectations have been built up unreasonably. Minaya would have been wise to not announce to the world that we WILL acquire an &#8220;ace&#8221;. Thanks, Omar. You just increased the going rate for starters for anyone you would have traded for.</p>
<p>However, it wouldn&#8217;t be the &#8220;end of the world&#8221; if we had to settle for Colon and Jennings (prefer them over Hernandez &amp; Silva). I could even live with Silva in a worst case scenario, if it meant that we could acquire Santana via free agency in the &#8217;08&#8242;/&#8217;09 off-season.</p>
<p>It sounds like the Red Sox &amp; Yanks won&#8217;t pony up Ellsbury &amp; Bucholz or Cano &amp; Hughes, respectively. If the Twins keep taking a hard line with the Sox &amp; Yanks, as they should, then that means NO TEAM will be able to afford Santana in a trade this off-season&#8230; which in turn betters our chances to acquire Santana after next season. And that&#8217;s something most of us fans are hoping for.</p>
<p>If all it will cost us is our 1st round draft pick and sick money to outbid the Yanks and Sox for Santana, I&#8217;d say that&#8217;s better than trading our entire farm away. Thus, signing a &#8220;stopgap&#8221; like Hernandez, Colon or Silva I could live with in the big picture of things, if that would mean we can sign a better player down the road (like Santana, Peavy, Teixeira, etc) without emptying the cupboard bare of all our prospect chips.</p>
<p>Sometimes when you are not dealt a very good hand (a combination of a seller&#8217;s market and crappy free agent pool), its best to not play that game. Just hang on to your most valuable trade commodities.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t sign any of these free agent pitchers for 4 years, or a reliever for more than 2 years (or 1 year and an option).</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t force trades for marginal talent upgrades that weaken us later at other positions down the road.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s better to just withdraw from all this trade hyperbole going on this off-season and seeing what our youngtsers can do for us to build their value back up (assuming it was down to begin with). It wouldn&#8217;t hurt for Gomez &amp; Martinez to mature some more, and for Pelfrey &amp; Humber &amp; Mulvey to take the next steps in their development so that they will have increased value to the Mets or to some other team in trade. If that&#8217;s accomplished, THEN we should hit the free agent market HARD next off-season instead of this year.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin2elster21</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49289</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin2elster21</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49289</guid>
		<description>Why don&#039;t we go after Cabrera and try to convert him to LF/1B?  He&#039;s probably the premiere NL hitter for the next decade.

And we know Marlins will deal to us.  They&#039;re our AAA+1.  Except of course they like to knock us out of the playoffs too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don&#8217;t we go after Cabrera and try to convert him to LF/1B?  He&#8217;s probably the premiere NL hitter for the next decade.</p>
<p>And we know Marlins will deal to us.  They&#8217;re our AAA+1.  Except of course they like to knock us out of the playoffs too.</p>
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		<title>By: stickguy</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49288</link>
		<dc:creator>stickguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49288</guid>
		<description>works for me.

Besides, they still have the talent to win in 2008, and could really be kicking butt in 2009+

Also key that they keep the bulk of the top young guys (pelfrey, Milledge, F Mart).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>works for me.</p>
<p>Besides, they still have the talent to win in 2008, and could really be kicking butt in 2009+</p>
<p>Also key that they keep the bulk of the top young guys (pelfrey, Milledge, F Mart).</p>
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		<title>By: gowrightgo</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49284</link>
		<dc:creator>gowrightgo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49284</guid>
		<description>Bonderman is the better pitcher with less upside though.  He is closer to his ceiling now.  I like him a lot and would definitely want a guy like that.  he and Vasquez are too intriguing guys not getting alot of mention anywhere but if the right deal came by...they are movable parts for their teams</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bonderman is the better pitcher with less upside though.  He is closer to his ceiling now.  I like him a lot and would definitely want a guy like that.  he and Vasquez are too intriguing guys not getting alot of mention anywhere but if the right deal came by&#8230;they are movable parts for their teams</p>
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		<title>By: kevin2elster21</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49283</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin2elster21</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49283</guid>
		<description>You know the deal, when the shoe&#039;s on the other foot, they&#039;ll cry foul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know the deal, when the shoe&#8217;s on the other foot, they&#8217;ll cry foul.</p>
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		<title>By: stickguy</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49282</link>
		<dc:creator>stickguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49282</guid>
		<description>Pitching a full year of course would be key.

But, if your top 3 are all solid for 15 (Pedro, Maine, Perez), and possibly more of course, and your 4/5 group can put up 12 each, where are you?

Well, that is 69 wins, and assumes that you pitch the same 5 all year.  If you get a 1/2 year, assume the guys that share the spot combine for the 12.

So that leaves about 21 wins from the pen to get to 90.  That is probably about normal for the pen, right?  I of course have no idea what they got last year!

This is why the mets fell short last year.  Not the #1 starter, but the #5.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pitching a full year of course would be key.</p>
<p>But, if your top 3 are all solid for 15 (Pedro, Maine, Perez), and possibly more of course, and your 4/5 group can put up 12 each, where are you?</p>
<p>Well, that is 69 wins, and assumes that you pitch the same 5 all year.  If you get a 1/2 year, assume the guys that share the spot combine for the 12.</p>
<p>So that leaves about 21 wins from the pen to get to 90.  That is probably about normal for the pen, right?  I of course have no idea what they got last year!</p>
<p>This is why the mets fell short last year.  Not the #1 starter, but the #5.</p>
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		<title>By: gowrightgo</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49280</link>
		<dc:creator>gowrightgo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49280</guid>
		<description>You beat me to it though i posted something above yours about the same a few minutes later.

Terrific idea in my opinion if we are really looking to 2009 instead of 2008.

Maine for at least one stud pitching prospect and one stud first base prospect plus filler.  Sign Silva and Colon.  

Mets rotation is ....
Pedro, Duque, Silva, Perez, Colon with Pelfrey and Humber and Mulvey in waiting plus a new stud ptiching prospect in AAA or AA gaining experience.  Plus we get an in house option next year to go to bat with at 1b and save $16M by releasing Delgado</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You beat me to it though i posted something above yours about the same a few minutes later.</p>
<p>Terrific idea in my opinion if we are really looking to 2009 instead of 2008.</p>
<p>Maine for at least one stud pitching prospect and one stud first base prospect plus filler.  Sign Silva and Colon.  </p>
<p>Mets rotation is &#8230;.<br />
Pedro, Duque, Silva, Perez, Colon with Pelfrey and Humber and Mulvey in waiting plus a new stud ptiching prospect in AAA or AA gaining experience.  Plus we get an in house option next year to go to bat with at 1b and save $16M by releasing Delgado</p>
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		<title>By: kevin2elster21</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49277</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin2elster21</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49277</guid>
		<description>“Teams that believe they might be able to obtain Blanton for less than it would take to get Haren will be disappointed, however. Beane plans to ask for the same prospects for Blanton that he would seek for Haren. The steep price would be three or four hotshot youngsters, can’t-miss types who would go onto the 40-man roster and therefore be close to big-league ready. ”

hahaha  

Blanton and Haren are the second coming of Maddux and Glavine (think 15 years ago, not that 1/3IP debacle)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Teams that believe they might be able to obtain Blanton for less than it would take to get Haren will be disappointed, however. Beane plans to ask for the same prospects for Blanton that he would seek for Haren. The steep price would be three or four hotshot youngsters, can’t-miss types who would go onto the 40-man roster and therefore be close to big-league ready. ”</p>
<p>hahaha  </p>
<p>Blanton and Haren are the second coming of Maddux and Glavine (think 15 years ago, not that 1/3IP debacle)?</p>
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		<title>By: therealsince86</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49274</link>
		<dc:creator>therealsince86</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/30/buzz-the-other-trade-market-for-pitchers/#comment-49274</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not Pelfrey for Millwood, it&#039;s Pelfrey for a dominant setup man and Millwood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not Pelfrey for Millwood, it&#8217;s Pelfrey for a dominant setup man and Millwood.</p>
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