|
The Mets officially announced that they have acquired OF Ryan Church 
and C Brian Schneider from the Nationals for OF Lastings Milledge.
During the call, Minaya said…
He and Nats GM Jim Bowden had been discussing this deal for a while.
Schneider will be his every-day catcher.
He checked around with other clubs, and, from what he can tell, trading Milledge will not impact whether or not he can acquire a starting pitcher from another club. Milledge did not fall out of demand, it’s just that the Mets have many other desired players to complete a deal. He had a very close, personal relationship with Milledge, and it was very difficult, emotionally, to trade him.
He does not feel Milledge’s value has changed much in the last 12 months, though he is sure he’d have been worth more had he come up last year and hit more. Either way, he is very happy to get two good players.
He has always felt he needed to acquire a catcher like Schneider, who is ‘big on defensive.’ These two players give the team balance, on both sides of the ball.
Church allows them to essentially go ‘with two center fielders.’ As of now, he views Church as an every-day, starting right fielder at the start of next year, who is under control for four years, whereas Milledge is still developing, and under control for five years.
Milledge would not have been guaranteed a starting job this coming spring training, though he is very confident he will eventually develop in to a very good player.
His goal is to win a championship, and this trade helps make them better offensively and defensively.
During the call, Schneider said he is looking forward to the opportunity, and to be on a winning team and playing in New York. He looks forward to working with the pitching staff. His favorite thing is to throw out runners at second and helping the staff as best as he can.
Asked to comment on John Maine and Oliver Perez, who he has hit against, he noted that he caught Maine while in Japan, and he’s already plotting how best to work with them. He’s excited.
Schneider has text messaged with David Wright, who is excited to have him, noting that Wright is very excited to get back to work and win. He hesitated to describe himself as a firey guy, but he knows he is capable of motivating a pitching staff, and he does not intend to come in and step on people’s toes right away.
Lastly, during the call, Church said he is thankful to the team for bringing him over, and to be on a team with a year-in and year-out chance to be in the playoffs. Church is able to play all three outfield positions, and is very comfortable in right, since it is where he played during most of his minor-league career. He is very excited to be a part of New York, and be part of a team with so much talent.
disgusting
Is Omar on drugs???
>>>Church allows them to essentially go ‘with two center fielders.’
You mean, like… Milledge?
>>>Milledge would not have been guaranteed a starting job this coming spring training
And who, exactly, was going to take his spot away?
>>>His goal is to win a championship, and this trade helps make them better offensively and defensively.
Starting a RF who hits .260 with no power and a catcher who hits .235 with no power would make you better offensively… how???
I gave Omar the benefit of the doubt in the past, but this is absurd. Stick to signing free agents, Omar. Time to leave the trades to the professionals.
If Milledge was not going to be guaranteed a spot in the starting lineup (and is anyone guaranteed a spot outside of the big money guys?), then I certainly hope that Ryan Church won’t be guaranteed a spot either. Furthermore, the idea that Schneider is his “starting catcher” seems a little strange – is he guaranteed a starting spot too?
I didn’t realize Schneider is owed 5 mil a year for 2 more years, he can’t hit!
Lastly, I couldn’t care less that everyone is “excited”. I would be too if I was coming from an awful Nationals team to a contending team – that doesn’t mean the fans have to be excited.
Time to start up a FireOmar.com page
What a TERRIBLE trade
dork
No power? He was 35 in the NL in OPS playing in a cavern. He had 60 extra base hits in 470 AB’s. How is that no power?
has it ever occured to you that when you have a huge outfield, it’s easier to hit doubles because the fielders are spread out further than usual?
isnt there a huge outfield at shea stadium?
No power? Church was 35th in the NL in OPS playing in a cavern. He had 60 extra base hits in 470 AB’s. How is that no power?
Sounds like the mets are two for two in getting rid of guys they just didn’t like, referring to loduca and now milledge. No other explanation. Church is a fourth or fifth outfielder and Schneider is a weak hitter. As we sit right now the team is much weaker than at the close of 07. I concur with the use of the description “disgusting.”
You forgot about Mota. Make it 3 for 3.
Church Career Shea Stats
G19 AB50 R12 H17 2B6 HR3 RBI12 BB6 K14 AVG.340 OBP.411 SLG.640
So what your saying is that over 250 at bats at Shea alone we should expect 15 hrs and 60 rbi at home while raking to a 340avg and 411obp?
Does this deal thrill me? Not really. But unlike all you wanna-be GM’s I will not call for the head of Omar Minaya. I’m more than willing to let this play out on the field and see what happens.
Church may turn out to be the second coming of Xavier Nady, and we were all pretty happy with him. If Schneider proves to be a quality defensive backstop, his offensive shortcomings may be acceptable from the 8 spot. It seemed to me that LoDuca turned into a black hole in the lineup in ‘07.
As for Milledge, I grew to like the kid, but I’m not at all sure that he’ll develop into the all-star that we had hoped. Time will tell on that,
Like I said, I’m not thrilled by this deal, on the other hand, I seem to recall being very excited about acquiring Robby Alomar, so maybe I (and you) should wait and see what happens.
The bottom line…If Omar’s moves (and non-moves) succeed in getting us back to the post-season and beyond, I will be delighted with his decisions. If they don’t, I’ll be extremely disappointed. Either way, I’ll still root for my team and be grateful to be in the discussion again, unlike ‘01-’05 and most of the ’90’s…
Finally, a voice of reason. This may not be a blockbuster, but Milledge seemed to be a bad clubhouse presence. Yes he has lots of upside, but Church does too. Schneider is a fine defensive catcher and will hit 8th. Any offense from him will be a bonus. They also give us left-handed bats which we were short on. I’m willing to sit back and wait. The sky is not falling, my friends.
Isn’t Lastings Milledge a CENTERFIELDER!?!?
Jeeze, my memory isn’t THAT short. He looked very good and comfortable there last year.
I’m not going to lie if it goes to an important game with Milledge having the chance to break some hearts, I’ll root for Milledge to break that heart just to prove a point.
Prove the point that you don’t trade a guy like Milledge for useless players.
This trade is indefensible. I have defended Omar, believed in him, and have been able to understand EVERY single one of his moves, except for this one. This one is truely indefensible.
He might be able to more or less pass as a CF for the next year or two with his decent speed, but nobody (not even his most ardent supporters here, I would imagine) can really argue that given his build and defensive skill set that he’ll be even an average fielding CF in the long-term. That’s why Church has so much more trade value to teams that want that (which happens to be every team with a SP on the market we want). People need to stop pretending as if an OF is an OF. That’s like saying an IF is an IF and that the same production from 1B is as valuable as the equal production at SS or 2B. A similar bat in CF is just way more valuable than one in a corner OF spot.
From all that I have heard Milledge is considered the superior defensive OF to Church. Church couldn’t hack it in CF for the Nats last year (just too slow).
are you smoking crack?
Wow what a fan….learn to root for the uniform and not the player.
Its not about the player. I’m rooting for intelligence.
“Indefensible”
Do you even watch baseball?
We finally have a catcher who has plus-defense. And he did a great job helping the Nats pitching overachieve last year. I think alot of people don’t take into account how important it is for a catcher to be able to handle a pitching staff and make good calls. This is something I didnt think LoDuca could do. And LoDuca was on par with Piazza concering throwing runners out. What other decent-catcher could we have gotten for less? none.
Church is a very talented player who drove in 70 runs on a crappy Nats offense.
I like Milledge, but he was gonna hit 25 hr and 100 rbi next year. Maybe in 3 years, but not in 08. I’m not saying Church will do that, but he can easily hit 15 hr’s, hit 40 doubles, steal 10-15 bases, score and drive in 80 runs. Thats pretty good numbers out of a player will be batting 7th.
In 3-4 years, Milledge might make us regret this trade, but for now i like it.
excellent rational and pragmatic comment.
Lastings Milledge can improve. He gets better.
The odds of Church being better are low. This is it kids, he’s 28 years old. He’s almost 30!
Do you realise that he’s only 1 year younger than Carlos Beltran!
I mean would you be pissed off if Milledge outproduced Beltran?
Except that that argument is hardly rational and certainly not pragmatic for the future of the Mets. Milledge will be able to do those same things next year. But Milledge also is 6 1/2 years younger and has room to improve greatly on those numbers in the future. Church is already at his ceiling (he is 29 as of right now).
In 3-4 years Milledge has a true chance to be a star. Probably in less time than that, quite possibly next year. In 3-4 years Ryan Church has a chance to be who? Xavier Nady? Ben Johnson? There is no upside of Ryan Church beyond being passably mediocre. He’s the kind of player that a Kansas City Royal fan would be mildly excited about acquiring. Horrible trade. No other word for it.
who says Milledge wouldn’t hit 25 hrs next year? We never saw the guy play regularly. Given a full season we have no idea what he can do. Ryan Church kills the Mets, but now you have to take the padded “vs. NYM” numbers out of his tally! This was an awful trade. Just awful.
Amen, brother!
Since when do we need to go with 2 center fielders? Don’t we need to go with 5 major-league starting pitchers?? This seems like junk talk. Realistically:
I’m reading panic all over people’s comments. Omar certainly has something else brewing….Stop cursing and calling for his head – give the guy a few days to reveal his entire master plan!
Stop cursing and calling for his head – give the guy a few days to reveal his entire master plan!
I think us thinking its part of a master plan is a way so we can justify the trade and not go bonkers. I don’t think its going to happen. I think this is it kid.
Given Omar’s history – I don’t think so. I don’t think he’s planning on keeping Church…Schneider I’m not so sure about. This can’t be it – Omar’s said over and over that pitching is the #1 need and that’s what he’s looking for. Do all you people really think he would give away one of our best prospects for position players without having something else lined up in the background? Wake up and smell the wood burning…
Or he obtains Church to start and sends away Gomez, Heilman and others in a deal for a starter.
But don’t mind me…
Estrada has to be going to. As far as I know, they’ve been very quiet about him; Omar even said Schneider is the starting catcher. So Estrada is going elsewhere.
While I love Milledge’s skills, he wasn’t the key to bringing an ace. That is obvious. You might not like Omar, but he wouldn’t trade a piece to the biggest puzzle is trying to put together.
Secondly, everybody railing on Ryan Church needs to get a clue. The guy is a good hitter, who put up the 35th best OPS in the NL playing in DC. On the road, his OPS was 848. Batting seventh behind Alou the guy can get 65 extra base hits. That’s solid protection for Moises. Plus, his defense is certainly more consistent than anything Milledge does in RF.
Milledge may one day be a star, but that won’t matter to Omar if the Mets are awful next year and he gets canned.
DC and Shea are equivalent parks for HRs and overall offense – over the past three seasons they’ve flip-flopped each year as to which was better/worse.
Also – Church has never hit more than 17 homeruns in any season, including the minors. His high OPS is largely a product of hitting 43 doubles last year. RFK, with its dimensions, happens to be a very good doubles park, consistently better than Shea.
So you can’t assume Church will suddenly blossom away from RFK.
The other issue is that Milledge, 22, produced almost identical numbers to Church, 29. He clearly has more upside.
Put it this way – I would not be shocked at all if Milledge hit 30 HR in 2008. I would be shocked if Church did.
look we can all bash omar and im as guilty as anyone but i refuse to believe omar is so stupid that he would trade milledge and completely blow up any possibility of getting a starter….either he plans on trading gomez now and has a major league proven OF that hes confident in at RF, OR he plans on trading church now as a centerfielder which he apparenly is viewed as more so than milledge.
He could have traded Gomez without giving Milledge away. And I just can’t believe that Church has more trade value than Milledge in getting Haren or someone else. I am just absolutely baffled by this.
By virtue of the fact that we got two for one, and one of those two was Church, he cannot have more trade value from Milledge, right? If I give you a ten for two fives, one of those fives cannot be more valuable than the ten! (I know, it’s a flawed analogy, but you know what I’m sayin’)
It makes absolutely no sense to have 3 catchers like Schneider, Estrada and Castro on the roster. One of them has to be going to another team in a package deal.
If everything remains the same by this time next week, then I might start wondering what Omar has been smoking. But for now, I’ll wait and see what unfolds.
Estrada will be outright released in less than two weeks since the Mets aren’t going to offer him a contract. Who is going to trade for something that will be free in two weeks?
Let’s see where things stand a week from today.
I have a feeling that a deal will be made in the Winter Meetings — At most the first Thursday of December. I believe Dec. 12 is the time needed to tender Estrada?
Anyway, if the Mets are interested in Bedard, it would be an amazing strategy to give them Estrada and Heilman. They have a terrible bullpen and want to trade Ramon Hernandez.
Giving them Pelfrey and Gomez could solidify the deal.
The problem I have with the “master plan” concept is this:
If you assume this is the first step toward a blockbuster deal, then who is it that we are able to trade now that we couldn’t before?
1. Estrada? C’mon – we got him for MOTA! Anyone who wanted Estrada could have gotten him for nothing.
2. Castro? Again – he was a free agent and we signed him for next to nothing. If another team wanted him, all they had to do was offer $.
3. Church? I don’t see him as the missing piece of a puzzle that gets us someone like Haren. He’s 29 and a relatively finished product, Milledge is 22 with much more potential upside. If you were a small-market team looking to unload a stud pitcher you couldn’t afford, wouldn’t Milledge be the more appealing option?
Which leaves only one other possibility — that the master plan involves acquiring Schneider so that we can immediately trade HIM. And I don’t see that either. First, Omar made it a point to anoint him the starting catcher. Second, Schneider wouldn’t be the centerpiece of that kind of deal. So if you were doing a Haren trade, for example, you’d have to be willing to trade Milledge so that you could then Gomez, Heilman and Schneider.
Realistically, you’ve got to take Omar at his word. He genuinely believes this is a good trade in and of itself. I disagree. But however you stand on this, I don’t think you assume it is the first of several dominos.
You’re right. Omar is done dealing before the Winter Meetings even start.
Since when do we need to go with 2 center fielders? Don’t we need to go with 5 major-league starting pitchers?? This seems like junk talk. Realistically:
I’m reading panic all over people’s comments. Omar certainly has something else brewing….Stop cussing and calling for his head – give the guy a few days to reveal his entire master plan!
The last time we had 2 center fielders in the outfield Cameron had to have his eye socket rebuilt with steel plates and beltran was out for weeks. This ruins my whole weekend. Terrible move any way you slice it. Garbage players. Is Omar trying to rebuild the Montreal Expos? Next up…Mets “aggressively” aquire Livan Hernandez. What crap.
Ummm, lol?
more like ROTFLMAOOTLCMTST
rolling on the floor laughing my ass off only to later cry myself to sleep tonight
Why do we need ‘2 Centerfielders’ when Carlos Beltran has 4 years left on his deal?
Plus Endy is here
why? because church is going to be playing right field and he has the defensive ability of a center fielder. think before you post.
Like someone already mentioned, that worked great with Cameron. Milledge has the defensive ability of a center fielder too. Right field is a completley different ballgame, and having a second center fielder there is more like to cause harm than good.
but Church spent most of the minors in right, so…there’s that.
Crack smoker!
Metsdude13- So Beltran and Cameron collided because they are both centerfielders? That is the worst reason to put down this trade I’ve read so far and I’ve read some bad ones.
Right is a whole different ballgame? Buddy have you heard of guys like Endy Chavez, Ryan Freel, or even Lastings Milledge? Give Church a week of fly balls in right and he will be good. The only difference is the angle and which the ball comes off the bat and tails to the line (from rightys).
Your post was just a terrible baseball comment.
Absolutely, positively Cameron and Beltran collided because they were both CF’s. Anyone with any baseball knowledge will tell you that.
A CF is trained to take control – if they call off the other fielder, they go for it and assume the other guy will back off. A guy like Cameron, who spent his whole career as a CF, clearly found it difficult to get this out of his head. Watch the video – they both call of the other guy, and both continue to go for the ball, thinking they have the right of way. Then bam, they collide.
Sure, Church could turn himself into a great RF. Or he could not. It’s a completely different position – this different angles, different cutoff men to throw to, different bounces off the wall.
Mike Cameron was a great defensive CF, and greatly struggled when switched to RF. It’s one thing for a guy who doesn’t have the legs to play CF anymore to move. It’s another thing to take a guy who’s in his prime and still has a CF mentality and move him to right. Milledge was a great defender in the minors playing CF, but never really found his spot playing LF or RF. It’s hard to predict how someone will react.
Your post was just a terrible baseball comment.
Different cut off men to throw to?
CF to 2nd- 2B or SS
CF to 3rd- SS
CF to Home- 1B
RF to 2nd- 2B
RF to 3rd- SS
RF to Home- 1B
Thats one of your reasons proven wrong. Perhaps maybe noise had an effect in the two colliding? I’ve never heard of a 2nd basemen and a shortstop colliding in the infield over a fly ball because the 2nd basemen was a shortstop some point in his career. And hopefully you know that shortstops have complete control over the infield.
There is no way you are going to win this arguement.
You know, I liked Milledge, and I liked Lo Duca. However, I did feel the Mets needed some new faces, to help separate 2007 from 2008. This will do that, and it’s probably a coin flip which bunch is better.
Yeah, but we are now without our best prospect who could potentially turn into Gary Sheffield in three to four years.
LMAO @ you guys having Milledge in the Hall of Fame already….
Now Lastings can bend his knees in front of the state capital…
I’ll put my 5$ on Milledge for the Hall of Fame. You go ahead and put your 5$ on Church and Schneider. Who’s got a better chance of collecting?
Best prospect? No.
Gary Sheffield? No.
I don’t see a problem with Church. With a full MLB season he could geta .280 average, 20 HR, and 40-50 2B.
Realistically, Lastings Milledge has one big test to prove he’s worthy: Hitting breaking balls.
So I don’t say this deal is a success, but if we got Bedard or Haren on the side, I’ll view the team as very improved.
Just on a side note: In a career with 1000 ABs, Church has hit 35 long balls, driven in 150 runs, walked 106 times, and hit 76 doubles. He has a .271/.348/.462 split.
Crack addict!
I really like Schneider. I remember wanting the Mets to get him back at the time they traded for LoDuca. It’s just a shame we couldn’t get more for Milledge. I can’t believe his value dropped so much. Oh well.
Well … I guess we’ll see if this is part of another deal next week. It looks like it might be. Maybe Church is going somewhere else.
His goal is to win a championship, and this trade helps make them better offensively and defensively.
I disagree… This weakens us offensively because Schneider is WORSE offensively than LoDuca.
But he is a lot better defensively and at LoDuca’s age, LoDuca isn’t alot better offensively.
LoDuca is a LOT better offensively…
Mets don’t need offense from the catchers position. They need someone who handles a staff, plays good defense which schneider does very well.
Schneider had a higher OBP than LoDuca last year. LoDuca had a slight power edge, but factor in Schneiders huge defensive edge and I think the Mets got better.
Pehaps Lo Duca was a lot better offensively, but not any more. His OPS+ this year was just 80. Schneider’s was 77. Meanwhile, Schneider is much better defensively than Lo Duca.
Overall Schneider is a good upgrade in the position, especially considering Lo Duca’s age.
Yeah, but Schneider’s not young. He’s at the age that catcher’s start to fizzle. I think he’ll be 32 next year. I think the Nats are laughing themselves silly because they were going to give the catching job to Flores anyway. Does somebody on the Nats have any incriminating stuff on Omar? Because they are doing a number on him.
No, he just turned 31 so he’ll be 31 all next season. He’s still about 5 years younger than Lo Duca. That’s not insignificant.
Yeah, but he might be a better option at the bottom of the lineup than Lo Duca was. Remember, Lo Duca hardly walked.
Crack anyone?
So long as there is more to this trade, I can cut Omar some slack. But if Church and Estrada aren’t spun beyond this, then this is a horrible trade. In any transaction, you want to obviously buy low and sell high. Why trade Milledge at a time when his value has NEVER been lower? Play him for a month, let him put up some numbers and elevate his value and THEN trade him. And the value of crappy catchers has NEVER been higher than it is right now. Schneider wouldn’t have gotten more than a mid-level prospect at any other time. This off-season, due to a bleak market, suddenly horrible catchers are worth top-level prospects. Unreal.
Omar, you’d better spin this into a top-line starter somehow. Otherwise Willie Randolph won’t be the only one without an office at the new Citi Field.
and yet LoDuca cant get a deal and may have to accept a 1 yr deal from Toronto if the reports are right. Markets are fickle. They like Torreabla but not Barrett. Like Estrada and Schneider but not Kendall. Interesting how that all works
I really enjoyed watching Milledge develop at the ML level. After seeing this we should of just gotten Lidge for Milledge. The Phils gave Mike Bourne. That is if it isn;t part of another trade.
But can you really see anothjer GM saying, “Omar you get me that Ryan Church and this deal is done”
Omar: “OK fax it tome so I have it in writing”
Ring Ring: “Jim its Omar lets do this”
Jim: (Loud Laugh and a band starts to play in the background.)
Look I hate the trade as well, but let’s not make it seem that the Mets lost a GG Rightfielder today.
LOL you’d think we lost Willie Mays today…it’s Lastings Milledge, get a grip.
We lost our top prospect who was 22 years old. TWENTY TWO. If there are no teams that want a player who is 22, you hold on to him.
If you think Milledge was the Mets top prospect, they are in bigger trouble than you think.
So just because he wasn’t the Mets top prospect, we should have given him up for nothing? We will regret this.
All i have to say is IN OMAR WE TRUST
Give this blind faith thing a rest. Remember, this is the guy that gave Grady Sizemore to the Indians. The guy can screw up once in a while. Maybe more than once in a while. And when he does screw up I think it is proper to retract your head from the sand and call him on it.
I just don’t get it. Maybe Minaya is a genius and I dont see it but there goes a big bargaining chip for pitching…
Sounds like you would have given more than any other GM who has soured on Milledge. He is no longer the chip he once was. The people who wanted to trade him two years ago were right.
Ptiching is all we want to hear trades for. We are not looking to marginally improve the offense (assuming you think Millz won’t at least replicate Churchs numbers)
The next deal needs to be announced as pitching oriented. Maybe Omar threw us all this clunker so when we get someone like Livan Hernandez signed or Silva signed….at least we can all say its better than the deal we made for Milledge a few weeks back
Bingo!
“Schneider will be his every-day catcher.”
I didn’t realize that Omar was managing the team as well.
that, my friend, is a very interesting point.
…makes one wonder where Ramon Castro will be making those ‘majority of the starts’ Omar said he would be making.
Even Willie wouldnt play 2 catchers at the same time… (Even when Delgado wasnt hitting and LoDuca needed rest and can play 1B)
I dont mind this trade at all, turning a bench OFer into two starters is a good way to look at this deal. Because of Milledges age, and not his potential, he brings back two bottom of the lineup players who will play 120-140 games next year.
Church will surprise some of you who are down on this trade. He is a solid all around player and will be more of a guarenteed producer over the next two years than Milledge would be. To get a ’starting’ catcher as a throw in is a nice plus.
I don’t think this is a bad deal. Next year is very important and a Church is a better talent than Milledge for next year. Gomez and Fmart are better long term propects than Milledge.
I would platoon Church and Gomez in rf. Gomez plays 25% of the time
some perpective.
hitting vs rh
I
.287 .360 .506 .866
AVG OBP SLG OPS
.265 .341 .513 .854
AVG OBP SLG OPS
.250 .309 . 395 .704
one is Beltran and one is Church one is Milledge
Church /Beltran and Milledge in that order
Is it just me or did Carlos Gomez not look impressive AT ALL. I mean, he has speed and he made some nice catches but he looks like he can’t hit if his life depended on it. I know everyone thinks he is the next jimmy rollins/jose reyes but I dont see it. He may be but it will take a couple years. You can use the argument that he is still young but so is Milledge.
Gomez was certainly rushed, but he definitely didn’t have a clue offensively. He was reduced to trying to bunt his way on everytime, which was a good tactic, because he wasn’t do anything swinging away. He needs a good full year or 2 in AAA, which he won’t get if he stays in the Mets organization. The Mets OF depth is so putrid and injury-laden, Gomez will definitely be needed again next season.
huh? RC last year: .272 .349 .464 Career: .271 .348 .462
LM last year: .271 .348 .462 Career: (350 abs) .257 .326 .414
only dif is RC is SIX YEARS OLDER. I don’t understand this at all.
oops, just saw “vs RH”. my bad. hungover.
Gomez needs to get well over 500 AB’s next year, not 125 or so that he would get playing 25% of the time. He needs to be in AAA as much as possible.
The Mets need to sign a decent righty bat who can play RF or Chavez will get exposed by playing too much as the 4th, and 5th, and 6th…. OF.
Brian Schneider, a .220 hitter…and Ryan Church for Sting?
A complete crap trade. Omar is turning out to be worthless this offseason.
for anyone arguing that milledge has such low trade value and no scouts like him… here is what Keith Law, the head of Scouts Inc for ESPN.com has to say. He has worked for the Blue Jays as a scout before so clearly he is a valid source.
“Lastings Milledge is still one of the better young outfield prospects in the game. By dealing him for an awful player in Brian Schneider, the Mets sold low on a former first-round pick with a lot of upside and committed two years and too much money to a catcher who can’t hit.
The Mets get … nothing, or close to it. Schneider will earn $10.3 million over the next two years to sit behind the plate when the rules call for it, and to make 300-odd outs at the plate while hitting .230/.320/.330 or thereabouts. He is the definition of replacement level — his offensive production was roughly as valuable as what Guillermo Quiroz did in eleven plate appearances for Texas last year — and paying him $10 million is bad enough. Giving up something of value to acquire that contract is horrible. It would be better to pay Johnny Estrada $3-4 million to be bad for one year than Schneider over $10 million to be worse for two years.
There’s a small silver lining for the Mets in the acquisition of Ryan Church, a capable platoon bat in left or right field if you have a right-handed caddy for him. Unlike Schneider, he has value on a big league roster, but even swapping Milledge straight-up for Church wouldn’t make sense because of Church’s struggles against lefties, his long history of minor injuries, his age and his expense as a super-two player this winter.”
Hmmm, interesting move Minaya
Terrible move… Terrible, terrible move…
hm..interesting how his analysis is from an offensive viewpoint and not defensive.
hardly an complete exhaustive anyalysis of schneider as a player and the deal as a whole.
What a moron. Schneider is there to catch pitches and throw out runners, NOT accumulate “OPS.” Why is it that stat guys are always so loose with the rhetoric, blithely calling major league players “nothing,” worthless, etc. Did the baseball star at his high school steal his girlfriend.
Yeah, Defense is nice, but the rules say that when your turn in the lineup comes up you gotta go up there and hit. And just because you can throw a little, that doesn’t make the outs you make count less.
Of course it doesn’t mention that Church is a better hitter right now then Milledge, or Schneider’s excellent defense and don’t give me this crap about a platoon. It’s not true. His OPS against Lefties the past 3 years is 742. While not excellent, it’s far from the point of needing to run out and get a platoon partner. Reyes only hit about 20 points higher in OPS against Righties last year, should we platoon him too?
Church’s OPS+ The last 3 years is 118, 131, and 114. Or in other words, he’s been an above average hitter each year. Granted the first 2 years were only part-time duty though. In comparison, Andruw Jones career OPS+ is 113 and Aaron Rowand’s is 106 and they’re considered the two top Free Agents in the Outfield right now. The guy can hit.
Besides the fact that Rowand simply isn’t that good and had one good year. Both he and Jones are amazing defensively, Jones has been called 2nd to Willie Mays and they both have much more power than Church. So don’t say he can hit, he simply can’t. .270 is mediocre, it is average. Milledge finished last season hitting around .290 I believe? And the repeated theme that he is 7 years younger than Church. There is absolutely no doubt Milledge is a better player than Church and he is still progressing. Watch tomorrow we get Molina from the Giants for Gomez, Omar is a complete moron and when I first read about the trade I was completely speachless. Milledge is the outfielder the A’s coveted and it seems we aren’t getting Santana and the O’s said trade talks stopped about Bedard. So where exactly would this pitching even be coming from assuming Omar does in fact have this all planned into a bigger scheme of things? And by the way the fact that Jones CAREER OPS is similar to Church’s over the LAST 3 YEARS does not exactly inspire me.
Yeah, Jones also hit .220 last year. Amd who says that Jones or Rowand would agree to play RF???
Not saying they would, simply stating that the comparison was amazingly ignorant.
continued by Keith Law…
“Milledge could easily be the second-best hitter in the Nationals’ lineup in 2008, and moved back to his natural position of center field, he gives them two plus defenders on the field as well. Milledge has quick wrists with line-drive power, and good plate coverage. His pitch recognition is weak right now, and he’s vulnerable to anyone who can change speeds. This wasn’t as much of a problem for him in the minors, so there’s reason to expect an improvement. He played mostly right field in the majors for the Mets and never adjusted to the different looks a fielder gets from that position, but in center field, he has plus range and an above-average arm. He’s probably not a star, but he projects as an above-average bat who plays a good defensive center field, and Washington has his rights for the next five years. Milledge’s value was down due to some concerns over his attitude, but those were really overblown, and Washington just picked up a good prospect for about 20 cents on the dollar.
The only way this deal doesn’t turn out to be a disaster for the Mets — second in this decade only to the Victor Zambrano-Scott Kazmir deal — is if Milledge doesn’t pan out as a hitter, and the smart money is that he will. This is a heist for Washington, and a serious mismanagement of assets for the Mets. “
THat says it all. The only thing I would follow up on that would be this…..
in addition, the beat writers for the METS are snickering all the way home since they were the ones largely responsible for tarnishing this kids image. After weeks of being unsure how to approach this “thuggish” looking kid and being snubbed for interviews, collectively three or four of them decided they would extract their revenge by weakening his image in the public and forcing METS managements hand on the issue. They even included one not so anonymous quote on Milledge “Know your place Rook” often attributed to the METS enigmatic closer. The purpose of which was to ensure the public perceptions of Milledge was that he would not fit in with the other vets in this clubhouse. While these group of writers could not have foretold where the ultimately landing spot of Lastings would be….I think they are deliriously excited about the end result knowing that Milledge will be going to a team that is certain to lose 85 – 90 or more games per season for the forseeable future.
After weeks of being unsure how to approach this “thuggish” looking kid and being snubbed for interviews, collectively three or four of them decided they would extract their revenge by weakening his image in the public and forcing METS managements hand on the issue.
is this opinion or fact?
paranoia
Jamie….its opinion dude. Just telling it like I think it went. I have no inside info. Its my perception that he got a raw deal by a handful of media guys who felt Milledge snubbed them or rubbed them the wrong way and they were going to try to paint his image as this malcontent. Thats all.
Well I had hoped that perhaps Milledge might get a shot sat RF. However you have to be honest in evaluating Milledge. He is a mistake prone OF. He isnt the first good defensive player to have a habit of making mistakes in the OF. As for his bat, I to think he will become a 20-20 guy who can drive in 85 runs a year. My concern with him has always been attitude. You look at the Yankees of the late 90;s and what do you see in the OF, Hard nosed guys in Williams, O’Neil. I dont see Milledge in that vain, I see him as a bit of a hotshot. If Church ends up playing RF fulltime….he will do a fine job…as for Schneider…he is what thsi team needs behind the plate.
I have no doubt that a deal for a Starter is coming…I prefer Bedard, but we will see. A lineup with Church and Schneider will be better. I liked LoDuca, but he couldnt throw and Schneider is a fine defensive catcher who will put up better numbers in this lineup.
Cmon folks, Minaya has made few mistakes personnel wise with this club…….cut him some slack……
A linup with Church and Schnieder was the worst offense in the league last year. How is it better for the Mets?
that’s makes a lot of sense…
If Omar leaves the winter meetings with Bedard, Santana, or Haren then all is forgiven but if not he should be fired. This has been one of the worst offseasons I have seen thus far.
I am not sure how this rates as a terrible offseason…the winter meetings have not even begun. Exactly what free agent would you liek to have signed? There is no one out there….and dont say AROD since he wasnt goign anywhere. As for Santana…..the Mets dont have enough to offer the Twins……..how about waiting til the winter meetings have actually taken place to say the offseason has been a disaster….last I checked Lastings Milledge was not a gold glove MVP candidate…….
Look at my post again and see that it says “thus far”. Thank you.
The Mets slogan this off-season should be a line from the movie Office Space “Every day is worse than the day before it.”
Omar, WTF are you doing?
“He is very excited to be a part of New York, and be part of a team with so much talent. ”
So much talent–yes…just ask the first baseman. They have so much talent they get bored while running away with the divisi–…sorry, my mistake.
Do I have to change my name on this site now?
Part of me wants Lastings to beat the Mets once or twice next year…
That must be the part that isn’t a Mets fan.
Anyway, I’m sure the shrillest of the shrill are guys with a $250 Lastings jersey in the closet, but yeah, this deal is a headscratcher, and is proving pretty tough to spin.
Omar,
The answer to your oft-asked question is:
“No, we have no earthly idea anymore what you are sayin!”
Last off-season was brutal. The Mets were a legit elite level team a game away from the WS. Omar’s mission was to tweak it to the next level. He didn’t need to go hogwild. He failed every which way but loose. Giving away Bannister killed the backend of our rotation. Getting Burgos was worthless last year and again is nothing this year. Re-inking steroidal Mota was a disaster, as was signing Schoen for 3. Bell/Ring to the Pads was a complete giveaway that further stripped our pen of depth. The Flores Rule V faux pas shows how little Omar knows/values the minor league players he inherited.
He took a possible 2006 WC level team out of the playoffs in 2007 and now the panic is upon him as he’s working for his job in 2008. Keeping Willie and Peterson was already a monumental goof that’s already keeping the pervasive CHOKE cloud on this team. Giving up Milledge again shows how little Omar values the minor leaguers he inherited. He’s completed a trifecta of 3 flawed catchers — all with guaranteed deals, and he’s brought back the smash ‘em up derby combo of 2 centerfielders running around there.
Plus, Church is a jew-bashing moron. Wait ’til the Wilpons learn about that. Nice, Omar.
Yep, remember this??
An article in Sunday’s paper about Baseball Chapel quoted Church as saying that he had turned to Moeller for advice about his former girlfriend, who was Jewish. “I said, like, Jewish people, they don’t believe in Jesus. Does that mean they’re doomed? Jon nodded, like, that’s what it meant. My ex-girlfriend! I was like, man, if they only knew. Other religions don’t know any better. It’s up to us to spread the word,” Church said.
Oh how perfect since there aren’t any Jews in NY at all…
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JUST WHEN I THINK THE METS CAN’T GET ANY DUMBER, THEY GO AHEAD AND DO SOMETHING SO DUMB IT DEFIES BELIEF.
SOMEBODY PLEASE KILL ME.
KAZMIR PART II
Skillsets buddy – I feel your pain! What is wrong with Omar. Sometimes he’s brilliant. He just seems to have gotten a bit too comfortable with the success and hasn’t been any good since the Oliver Perez trade (his turning point).
worst trade ever
trade a 22 year old who projects to hit 20 hrs and 85 rbis if he had played the entire year for 2 marginal players
WHYYYY?!?!??!?!?!?!??!
I have no problem trading prospects but if his value had gotten so low why trade him ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Exactly. If they were all we could get for him then we should have kept him to play RF. Milledge could have helped us this year or at the least increased his trade value but now we got 2 bums for him and he may make us pay for the next 10-15 years in our own division. Terrible move Omar.
So he traded someone who projects to hit 20 HRs and 85 RBIs for someone who actually will hit 20 HRs and 85 RBI’s and this is a bad deal how?
b/c hes about 7 years younger
how can anyone defend this trade
Church is more of a guarantee.
Because of this little thing called ‘potential’….Milledege is 22 and has shown that he could be a star. Church is what hes gonna be, and dont even get me started on a .235 $10 MILLION catcher….please stop with this defensive stuff. Its important, no doubt, but I really dont think Lo Duca’s defense is why they collapsed….
Awful…..absolutely awful. Glad I bought those season tickets….
Milledges projected numbers are really only his pro rated numbers from his prior experience. One would assume due to his age and limited ML experience that he would grow quickly to expand on those numbers.
Can you really say you do not see the potential for Lastings to hit 30hrs in a season or drive in 100? While it will be a lot harder next year of in his immediate future due to the ballpark he will be in, I bet his road numbers will be excellent next year. He may only get 22 hrs next season but I bet 15 come in the ballparks he visits and only 7 from his home park.
Put him in Shea and the numbers would be up maybe to 9hrs at home. Put him in Philly all year and he would hit 30 next year
This is a freaking awful trade. I do not get it at all. Omar doesn’t think Milledge could put up Church’s numbers in 500 ABs?. And, Schneider?! He just traded one of his best chips for two mediocre to bad players, that are older, and no one else wants. I smell Willie’s hand in this. He never gave Milledge a fair shake in my opinion.
Kazmir redux indeed.
I’ve always liked Schneider. He’s stronger than Lo Duca as a catcher now, especially considering Lo Duca’s advancing age.
I seriously started to question Lo Duca’s game calling skills and the way he handled pitchers when down the stretch almost every pitcher was stinking it up and the two best games thrown by the starters — one by OP and one by Maine — were both caught by Castro.
If you believe the reports, not many clubs who had top pitching to trade were asking for Milledge.
If Omar is able to spin Church off into a deal for a good starter, then this trade IMO is a winner. Otherwise, it’s wait and see to find out if Milledge can grow into the ML player the Mets envisioned when they drafted him.
Can anyone honestly say that Church is going to be better than Milledge next year?
Absolutely not. Bowden just abused Omar. In the words of Pedro, Bowden is Omar’s Daddy.
I will give Omar a chance to redeem himself during the Winter Meetings but if nothing happens the Mets will be the joke of baseball like the Knicks of basketball.
In the end…it will be written with Milledges play. We got back two muddling major leaguers with no trade value at all for a guy whose best value was to keep him. I don’t pretend to understand this move but I can assure you…it is not the move that sets up the next one.
No one in their right mind is dying to get Ryan Church on their team. Don’t tell me he is the lynchpin for a deal with bedard or with Santana or Haren. I am not buying that at all.
I think the market value for what Milledge would have been at the conclusion of next year was set this year by the Young for Garza trade.
Milledge types are worth one developing and promising starter who projects to be a #2 or #3 starter in a year or so. (kind of like a John Maine but without the failed experiment tag)
There you have it guys. I can’t wait for the winter meetings to see what is coming next…….
Oh, so that’s what Milledge is worth. I’m glad you were out there talking to GM’s. Which one offered you that high ceiling 2-3 pitcher? Pass his number to Omar, because everybody he talked to told him they don’t want Milledge.
Actually by your post I can see you just did not read it that closely. So here it is again…
“I think the market value for what Milledge would have been at the conclusion of next year was set this year by the Young for Garza trade.
Milledge types are worth one developing and promising starter who projects to be a #2 or #3 starter in a year or so. (kind of like a John Maine but without the failed experiment tag)”
Now what this means is that I feel Young for Garza set the value of a successful but young and somewhat punkish outfielder in a trade. What I said earlier in the first part was I think Milledges value if he played for us next year and was successful (to the level that Delmon Young was in Tampa), he could get us a guy like Garza in a trade at the end of next season. Maybe I was not that clear
Got it now?
So this is what it’s come to, huh folks? I remember all of us sitting on here FURIOUS as we all watched that horrific collapse…we were beside ourselves….the only thing to help us through it was the possibility of a huge off-season, we had all been hoping if nothing else, the collapse made Omar realize this team needed an ACE and much more bullpen help.
So…Omar goes out…trade our best “ready” prospect for a .230-hitting catcher and a 4th outfielder.
Jon Rauch? Nope
Chas Cordero? Nope
Luis “friggin” Ayala? Nope
I am fed up. What a silly move. The Mets are becoming a bigger joke now than they were during the collapse.
Oh, and mark my words, we’ll all be furious, AGAIN, next week when Omar gives 3 years to Livan Hernandez.
Omar is going to on @4:20 on Wfan..let us hear him then fire him!!
For what it’s worth, Ryan Church absolutely RAKES against the Mets. His numbers look like Barry Bonds’ at Shea.
His OPS at Shea last year was 1404. Over the past three seasons: 964. I know, I know, small sample size. But still…
awesome so we’ve eliminated the only team he hits well against.
Russo just ruined Omar.
What did Russo say?
Russo does not possess the ability to ruin anybody.
personally, i’m not crazy about this trade, but i’ll wait till the offseason is actually over before rushing to assess how all the moves pan out.
i will say that it seems highly likely that there are more moves to come.
so Omar had determined that Milledge couldn’t bring back a top end starter? okay.
I’m thinking that Gomez will go next in a trade for said starter.
clearly the Mets needed somebody to play RF next year (with Gomez and Milledge gone) and a “defense-first” catcher.
So, with Gomez the next to go, the Milledge trade plugs those two holes (yes, you could argue that the Milledge/Estrada duo was equal or better – but i suppose that is debatable at least in the short term — in the long term all it means is that after next year when Alou retires we will be signing a big time free agent OF, which is clearly easier to acquire then any other position. leaving your OF for ‘09 and beyond as Beltran, FMART when ready – Church to plug in till then, and whichever big name they get to replace Alou).
I’m betting that Gomez + whomever is necessary (sans FMART) will be bringing us back Bedard sometime next week.
I believe that if that whomever is necessary includes Pelfrey, then the next move will in fact be to sign Livan or Silva, as it doesn’t seem like they would be comfortable with Humber as the potential 5th starter and Mulvey needs more time (if still here).
so you’re looking at:
Pedro
Bedard
Maine
Perez
Livan/Silva
Reyes
Castillo
Wright
Beltran
Alou
Delgado
Church
Schneider
and so even if he is older and with not nearly the same ceiling having Church in the OF for the next two years is fine. I’ll bet his production over those two years (at least next year) is equal to if not better then Milledge.
and clearly the feeling is Schneider’s catching skills in terms of throwing out runners and helping the pitching staff as a receiver are worth the marginal loss over the next two years.
Agree.
You have to have desirable chips to get the guy we want. If teams don’t want Milledge for a 1 -2 starter why not use him to plug another, more difficult hole to fill.
I’m perfectly fine going with the team metfaninla posted provided that Omar fills out the pitching staff with some solid relief.
To actually see that lineup card for the first time with the 7 and 8 spots filled with Church and Schneider makes me literally sick. We had Paulie as a #2 hitter and were 2 runs from going to the World Series. Now, we have the bottom half of the Washington Nationals order (with Schneider at 5 mil a year) for Milledge. Fire Omar!
did you have omar on wfan? he should have been a used car salesman.
What makes this trade even worse is that we traded Milledge to a team in our own division. So you know Milledge is going to become a Met killer just becuase he will be so motivated to beat us everytime we play them.
After saying this and agreeing that it is a terrible trade I still like our team next year. Yeah Milledge was probably going to help us win a few games next year but he wasn’t a vital piece to our team next year. Church can at least put up some good numbers next year and Schneider will help us a lot in the defensive department. I still like our team next year and still like our core of guys (Beltran, Wright, Reyes) going into the future. Plus we have 3 picks in the first 35 selection so that should help our farm system for the future.
It’s funny/unbearably sad, but what would you guys do if now Billy Beane makes a deal with the Nats for Milledge…
For Haren no less…Milledge and Cordero for Haren
I’m reserving judgement until the offseason actually ends and we see what the entire roster will be. On first look I’m not all that thrilled with the deal but there are some good parts to it. One being Church, who’s a good hitter with speed and a good glove.
Yes he’s almost Beltran’s age but this was the first year he was actually given a shot to play everyday, so there might be more upside to him than most guys his age. Look at Eric Byrnes, that guy was an average player for many years bouncing around and then it just clicked with the Dbacks. So it can happen.
Schneider can’t hit a lick but he did actually drive in about the same as Pauly did and he’s a defensive stud. And I know that doesn’t show up in the sexy statistics but it is vital to have on any staff. Look at the Rockies and how much they rave about torrealba, and that guy has horrible numbers. But they swear by the dude. You’ll hear alot of that from the Mets wth Schneider.
So as much as I would have liked to believe Milledge should have gotten more and these teams seem to fall out of love with young prospects after a small sampling, there are some upsides to the deal and we need to take a more wait and see attitude instead of the Fire Omar websites some of us would like to start.
The only thing I can come up with is that they will sign Andruw Jones and trade Church for a top notch starter. But still a mind bobbling trade.
Yes very mind bobbling… maybe ill put it on my dashboard
we need pitching …thats what everybody thinks thats what omar thinks thats what the owners think…point blank whats going on now shouldn’t have a big effect on us not having at least one ace on the staff forget about these trades there done for a reason …. now if omar said pitching is top priority and he does not get at least 1ace starter by season start then we can all agree he did not do his job
the owners coaches and the fans will know he did not do his job the off season isnt over yet there still alot of work to be done so dont think because of this move the off season is over omar still has work to do ..
if he does it then we are going to look back at this trade and say why the hell are we going crazy over that if he does not do his job then we can start thinking about getting a new gm who will do the job right
From “On the Mets beat” by David Lennon:
I can’t wait for Omar Minaya’s conference call later this afternoon because someone needs to explain this trade with the Nationals to me. Maybe the market value of Lastings Milledge has dipped, but as my Bergen Record colleague Steve Popper reminded me, this is a guy who was nearly traded for Manny Ramirez a few years ago.
Now the best Milledge can bring in return is Brian Schneider and Ryan Church? What happened to the packages for Johan Santana? Dan Haren? Joe Blanton? Apparently, Milledge must be radioactive to those clubs because they wanted no part of him.
True, Milledge has frustrated the Mets with his behavior over the years, and most recently with his rap lyrics. But Milledge is only 22 years old, a better offensive player (right now) than Carlos Gomez and his attitude was improving.
Why not keep Milledge, let him increase his trade value once the season begins and then move him? I really think Johnny Estrada was poised for a bounceback year after surgery and would have been fine splitting the catching duties with Ramon Castro. Oh well.
It’s a little weird how the Mets are starting to look like the Expos/Nationals. I wonder if Minaya’s affection for his former players is getting in the way of his decision-making. At least Endy Chavez has worked out.
Lennnon is one of the guys who has consistently disparaged Milledges character and now he wants to quesion why we got so little for him. Look in the mirror dude. YOu were part of the problem.
Twins still need a CF. Is Church better than Coco Crisp, who Boston has on the table?
well hes the same age and has better numbers i personally think hes better but who the heck knows
I’m not going to roast Omar yet. In two offseasons he is 1 for 2. Let ’s see how this one plays out during the season, NOT before the winter meetings for god’s sake.
However, the tough part about this trade is that we went after Schneider because he is an excellent defensive catcher (and he is) and I have no problem with that. The problem is that if we had not exposed Jesus Flores in Rule 5 last year we would have had our defensive catcher (the one the Nats will use in place of Schneider).
I don’t think Mets fans should pin all their hopes on getting a #1. I do believe we will improve the staff, but it may be marginally rather than all at once.
What are you doing to us, Omar?
You are a sick, sick bastard.
Matt,
Time for an Omar and/or rate this latest trade poll.
I think that the whole fan base is upset….when i heard this….i was at a lost for words…i think we all are….this is very upsetting for us all….good luck to milledge in having a great career..we’ll all miss lastings…
and OMAR, if your listening, You screwed up big time…..everyone believed in you but this move is just INEXCUSABLE…you should be fired….
I can’t believ Omar traded FOR 2 white guys.
testing?
I cant believe it either. Unfortunately he traded our only black player for them!
You just gotta hope Milledge doesn’t turn out to be the offensive version of Scott Kazmir.
Speaking of Kazmir, wasn’t it Peterson who ran him out of town. The same Peterson that felt Pelfrey was ready this year, thus pitching him to a 3-8 record on the major league record and destroying his trade value (and ability to flip him for an ace). Don’t get me wrong, Omar sucks as a GM, but Peterson may have cost the Mets 2 legitimate ace’s in the span of only a few years.
And yet this 100 degree jacket-wielding moron still has a job.
Peterson is only a pitching coach, you make it out like the Mets consider him to be their pitching GM as well.
The people in the Mets front office who over valued Peterson’s opinion of people should have learned thier lesson by now, or lost thier job for it. Not Peterson.
He does a good job as a pitching coach, when they let him in on personel opinions he had a bad track record. That should have ended by now.
IN OMAR WE TREMBLE!
Cant wait to see Wags take on this. Yikes.
Is Brian Schneider Jewish? Did the Mets just get an anti-semite and a Jew in the same trade? And you guys all say it’s Los Mets….HA. Omar proved you wrong here.
The Mets were looking to upgrade defensively at the catcher’s position, yet in a recent Newsday article David Lennon wrote:
The Mets obviously were not satisfied with Paul Lo Duca – they didn’t bother to make him an offer – and wanted someone who, along with Castro, would do a better job of handling the pitching staff. Based on his previous three stops with the Braves, Diamondbacks and Brewers, Estrada appears up to the task.
Starting with the Braves in 2004, each of those teams’ ERAs improved after Estrada arrived. With Javy Lopez in 2003, Atlanta had a 4.10 ERA, which ranked 12th in baseball. That dropped to 3.75 with Estrada the following season, tops in baseball.
The trend continued in 2006 with the Diamondbacks. The previous year, with Chris Snyder the primary catcher, Arizona had a 4.84 ERA (25th). That dropped to 4.48 (13th) with Estrada.
The same thing happened in Milwaukee, where the Brewers’ ERA went from 4.82 (25th) in 2006 to 4.41 (15th) with Estrada in 2007. The Mets had a 4.26 ERA – 12th in baseball – last season.
Of course, Estrada can be considered only one factor, but such a significant reduction should be noted on a catcher’s resume. As for the criticism Estrada has endured for his poor success rate of throwing out would-be base-stealers last season, there are mitigating factors.
Estrada threw out 13 percent (11-for-84), but the 73 stolen bases he allowed still were fewer than Josh Bard (121), Jorge Posada (102) and Gold Glove winner Russell Martin (82). Nine catchers allowed between 68 and 74 stolen bases.
It’s also important to consider that Estrada played last season with a bone spur in his throwing elbow. The spur was removed Oct. 4.
Thus the trade for Schneider makes even less sense. BTW Omar on M&MD said that he sees Church as the everyday right fielder. Let’s be honest here. This trade is a plus for LM. There is no way Willie was going to play LM everyday. So it’s a great situation for LM.
At least we’re getting down to business in the off season and talking care of all our pitching needs. Instead of getting pitching we’ve gone out and gotten 3 catchers. Is Omar on OxyContin? That’s the only logical explanation.
Ever hear Lil Wayne’s song “I feel like dying”? I think that explains Omar making this move and how all the fans feel in one fell swoop. [Hint: Omar is the one on copious amounts of drugs and we are the ones that feel like dying as we are left out with nothing wondering what is going on]
Omar loves to gather tons of players and just see how they shake out. Sometimes he hits (Maine, Endy, Perez) and most times he misses (Mota, Sosa, loserpuds who are still in minors).
Omar is a mediocre GM at best. A team like the Mets should do much better.
Terrible trade – I wasn’t a big LM fan, but it’s one less chip you can use in a package for a starter. I understand why they didn’t want LoDuca, but don’t get rid of a player when there is no one better out there.
Who is the biggest Met that’s passed his prime and on his downside? Omar.
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIBBBBBBBBBBBBLLEEEEEEEEEE
Trade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow – some of you guys! Sorry, but what kind of bonus does he get for having the 35th BEST OPS IN THE NL? WTF! With all due respect, some of you are as desperate as Omar to find a justification to not be crying in your beers over this. I’m with BENNY!
This trade is ridiculous. Milledge is 7 years younger than Church and currently has the same level of hitting ability. And for those of you who say he cant hit breaking balls, try hitting him second between Wright and Reyes and just see how many breaking balls the kid even sees. And as for this defensive catcher crap, Mike Defelice is a freakin defensive catcher….half the catchers in the minors are defensive catchers. Christ I wish Crash Davis were not a fictional character cuz i would take him over Schneider. This trade was terrible and may be the worst move Omar has made since he has been here. He gave up talented cheap youth for two role players…. Big Whoop! This trade actually is so bad that i was only able to enjoy the knick win for about five minutes. Absurdly bad.
And one other thing. All this baloney about handling a pitching staff, maybe if we went out and got more good pitchers, we would not need to stress our catchers ability to handle the staff so darn much. Oh, and Estrada can handle a staff and outhit Schneider with one hand tied behind his back.
Abrupt discontinuation of effexor….
Discontinuation effexor. Abrupt discontinuation of effexor….