|
|
|
During his recent appearance on SNY’s Daily News Live, Seth Everett from MLB.com had the following to say about Lastings Milledge, who was traded to the Nationals today…
“Milledge’s value had plummeted. If you were gonna have the foresight to realize that Lastings Milledge will never make an All-Star team you should have traded him two years. They didn’t, and they held on until it was too late…Milledge is still a talented young individual, but you couldn’t get a starting pitcher – not a front-line pitcher, but a starting pitcher – for Lastings Milledge, so they addressed another need…
“Billy Beane is on record as saying he likes Lastings Milledge, but it was 18 months ago. That’s the point. Lastings Milledge’s behavior and lack of development have taught other GMs that they don’t believe in him any more. The book has changed. John Schuerholz used to be great at this in Atlanta, when you know that Bruce Chen isn’t going to be a Cy Young you get something in return for him…
“The point is, there isn’t a GM who is willing to give you a fourth starter for Milledge…Clearly Billy Beane wouldn’t budge on Milledge, because if he would have there’s no way Omar Minaya would have blown that chance.”
FOXSports.com’s Ken Rosenthal also appeared on DNL, to comment on today’s trade.
To watch Rosenthal’s segment, click here.
 |
 |
 |
RSS 2.0 Both comments and pings are currently closed.
this is complete garbage… what has Lastings done to prove he won’t be an all star. How has he not improved. Am I the only one who realizes that once Beltran went down, for a month after the all-star break Milledge led the team in RBIs. If every other team was sour on Milledge, the Mets should have realized that is ridiculous, and kept him. I would like to hear one good argument about how Milledge’s performance as a rookie last year was disappointing. I mean if you look at the numbers, it simply wasn’t.
.272 BA, .341 OBP, .446 SLG, 7 HR, 29 RBI, all in just 184 AB, And this is for a 22 year old. Why would those numbers not expected to improve upon for 2008?
milledge’s numbers from ‘07 are misleading because he had an inordinate percentage of his AB’s against lefthanded pitching. he pounds lefties but he hasn’t hit righties at all in the bigs.
i don’t like this trade but i don’t hate it. it’s not as dumb as it seems. i really wish omar could’ve expanded it somehow to get rauch or rivera.
Great point!!! I would have taken rausch on a 1 for 1 basis before this hack trade….Is Minaya the guy? It seems like GMs love to tease him with pitching to drive others price higher. Simple if Minaya doesnt bring a good staff into 2008 he is done in my mind,
agreed — this has to be a pre-cursor to a larger deal for pitching.
Daily News today:
Milledge, 22, reportedly was offered with Aaron Heilman and Phillip Humber to the Orioles in a proposal that was rejected. Including Milledge did not make it more desirable to Baltimore, but one baseball official said, “You put Church or Gomez in place of Milledge in an offer and it might be a more attractive offer.”
Fingers crossed we lose Church in a package, keep Scneider (I like him), then address RF after. I’d even sign a Guillen for a year and have Gomez, then F-Mart behind him and Alou for ‘09.
yeah, but church is terrible against lefties… the two might make a nice platoon… but man… getting rid of a 22 year old with that quick a bat…
Put it this way: Millz was not going to spin us Santana, Bedard or Haren. No one wanted him. The Mets want to win now. Millz for Church is equal value NEXT YEAR. Same numbers, probably. Throw in Schneider and you have upgraded catcher defensively and with the pitchers. Now take into consideration that Church has higher trade value TODAY than Millz. The Mets want to land a big fish TODAY. We all want big return for Millz, but it was not going to happen this year. Omar has locked in the catching platoon and has a RF trade chip, or at least the same production that he was going to get out of Millz in ‘08.
Here is another point. Schneider has terrible offensive numbers, but look at his batting splits. He is a left hand bat that can’t hit left hand pitching to save his life. That is what drives the poor BA. Answer: Enter Castro, who crushes left hand pitching. Perfect platoon. Each get equal time and ample rest.
The problem is that they won’t get equal time because there is way more RH pitching out there than there is LH pitching. Schneider is going to get a lot more playing time than Castro is.
I think its more like, other GMs were saying they didn’t want him because they knew Omar was throwing him away. They figured if bigger chips don’t become available, they can threaten to take a lesser package from a competitive team, and convince the Mets to offer up Milledge plus a whole lot more. Maybe this is Omar’s way of saying he’s not messing around. If he sees a deal that he think will improve his team, he’s going to make it. Whether this one actually will…may be questionable. But maybe other teams that are hiding interest in guys like Carlos Gomez, Fernando Martinez, Deolis Guerra, and Mike Pelfrey behind the fact that none of these guys were dominant at their level will begin to show themselves a bit more after this move.
I think everything we’re hearing so far is all just strategizing for the real move at the Winter Meetings. The Twins add offense for pitching and threaten to make the Red Sox even better, improving their bargaining position with Santana. The Yankees are acting like the organization would fall apart without Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain, trying to drive Santana’s price down. The Angels already added offense and pitching and claiming they don’t need more at the price the Marlins are asking for Cabrera. And Billy Bean “may or may not” shop his entire team, but first he wants to see what happens with Santana. And Omar’s the crazy auctioneer, who will give up all his best prospects for the first person to offer him a the best deal, and he won’t hold out for anyone once he finds something he wants.
That is an interesting theory that I hadn’t heard before. I am not sure if it is the case, but it’s not impossible. It’s sort of like they threw Milledge overboard like chum to attract the big fish.
Exactly, its a bit of a stretch, especially since Milledge seems like he should be such a big piece.
I don’t necessarily hate this trade, but it does strike me as oddly timed. Why couldn’t Omar have just made this move in March if he still had Milledge? That’s what really bugs me about it, its hastiness.
so basically, Omar was saying “ok, Minnesota, Oakland, and Baltimore, I think you’re bluffing about not wanting Milledge. I’m gonna call your bluff by trading him for two bench players. If you keep bluffing, I’m gonna trade a prospect for 20 cents on the dollar once a week, every week. Next is Carlos Gomez to the Marlins for Cody Ross and Aaron Boone. After that it’s Mike Pelfrey to the Reds for Juan Castro and Norris Hopper. Then, if you’re still bluffing, I’m gonna make the king of all bad trades: Fernando Martinez, Phillip Humber, and Aaron Heilman to the Astros for Brad Ausmus, Ty Wigginton, and Woody Williams (to finally address our need for a starting pitcher. Then, I will have really called your bluff! There will be nobody left in our farm system for you to trade your aces for. Guess you’ll have to go to the Yankees or Red Sox. SUCKERS!”
Um, kinda, but not really.
1. I don’t think this is THAT bad a trade. We got two proven commodities for one unproven one. Church, like Milledge, is a good bet to be average or better. It may not have been an upgrade, or even a good decision, but I don’t think the value here is that awful. I would not be surprised to see Church put up a decent year, and he’ll add to the production Shawn Green provided.
2. No, I don’t think Omar is going to sell off the team for mediocre pieces. I think there were a lot of reasons Milledge was on the block. I also think the timing was a little strange. But I think he’s sending a message that my pieces are here for the taking, make me an offer. If you can do better, go right ahead, but I won’t play games and hold out. Other GMs were figuring he wouldn’t make ANY trades until he addressed his rotation, meaning the Mets would always be there as a viable fallback should talks with another team fall through. That’s not a good bargaining position for Omar. He’s on hold while other GMs are going down the list of their five most desirable young players, unless he includes Reyes.
I still don’t even think a big monster sexy trade is necessary. I think its worth looking into, and pulling the trigger if its reasonable. But there are options short of that, and despite the popular belief this team is not crippled.
//Put it this way: Millz was not going to spin us Santana, Bedard or Haren//
…..I agree but what do we have left to offer that will? I am not seeing this trade as one that put us in a better position for those guys unless Omar has some huge master grand plan he is wheeling and dealing in the background and this was just a stepping stone.
that is so f@#@#@ short sighted. you’re most likely an omar fan. it seems he thinks the same way.
The problem is that Milledge doesn’t have to prove he WON’T be an All-Star, he has to prove that he WILL be an All-Star.
It’s the same thing with a lot of posters in here with Gomez and Martinez. These “prospects” can’t be considered golden until they prove that they are not golden, they have to be considered not golden until they prove that they are.
Milledge had pretty decent numbers for a 22 year old who wasn’t getting full playing time. Gomez was in way over his head. You can’t compare the two. I’m not saying Milledge was going to be a star, but I’ll guarantee GUARANTEE he’s at least as good as Church, and much younger.
You just can’t make that guarantee.
Am I the only one who realizes that once Beltran went down, for a month after the all-star break Milledge led the team in RBIs.
Maybe. Because there was no month this season in which Milledge led the club in RBIs.
So what time period are you talking about exactly?
Maybe it was a 30-day period that “crossed monthly lines.”
Just trying to help out.
Beltran was out from 7/25 to 8/10. During that time Milledge had 8 RBIs. Both Delgado and Wright had more over the same time period. At any rate, why use a small sample size of the season?
And don’t take me wrong. I really like Milledge and his hitting potential. It’s too bad he had to get hurt this year as I think he lost out on a great opportunity to get some needed experience. Maybe it cost us Santana. Because if Milledge had had a much better year, he might be still viewed as a blue chip prospect and the Twins might be very interested in him now.
I hope he’s successful with the Nats. My guess is his ceiling offensively is somewhat only a little higher than what Church has put up in his career so far. But his defense is suspect as he sometimes takes poor routes to balls.
No, if Milledge had had a much better year than Omar Minaya would have told all of his potential trading partners that he was untouchable and a part of his team’s core.
A lot of us in Metland refuse to recognize that you often need to give something up to get anything of significance.
We realize that!!!!! But we didn’t get anything of significance!!!!!
Check out ESPN.com and read what Keith Law says.
kieth law is a douch
CW, if Milledge had had a much better year, his stats would have spoken for him. He wouldn’t need his GM to tell other GMs anything. And I doubt Omar would have held on to MIlledge based on one season.
I think Milledge could have had a breakout year in 2007 if not for his injury. And I think that he might have brought us Haren or Santana. Surely, even without a breakout year, he’s a more desirable player than Cabrera or Crisp.
ESPN already is saying this is Kazmir-Zambrano part II…yikes
Global New York Mets
i would like to see the mets turn around and trade sniender, humber or pelfrey and gomez or martinez for Bedard and Hernandez.
i do not think that would a strech of a trade
It’s going to cost Heilman, because of Baltimore’s bullpen woes. My bet is that Estrada goes as well. Gomez and Pelfrey are just addition prospects.
Even add Gotay and you’ve got a great bet on Erik Bedard or Johan Santana.
Milledge clearly had talent but i think this trade will benefit both the mets and the nats. But I would like to argue the fact that Milledge wouldent have been enough to aquire a starter. Lets face it the mets need a a 13-15 game starter before the season starts. I would have thought with a poor pitiching market milledge would have been involed in a trade. Now with that said Omar will trade eaither Gotay or Gomez for a starter
amen brother
I completely agree with that whole line of thinking. Nobody wanted Milledge for their pitching. Everyone loves Gomez…so give them Gomez and use Milledge to fill other small holes that are now filled up and solidified…and Omar still has the chips he needs to get something big done in the Winter.
I completely agree with the original post, that is.
I agree. His value has taken a hit. He an outfielder with potential but not on this team. This trade made us stronger up the middle and fills our roster out bench included. 100% of the focus will be on pitching this up coming week at the winter meetings. Milledge was great years ago when his talent alone could have gotten a Zito or Oswalt but thats the past and this is now. Milledge is gone and has no part in the mets anymore, i wish him luck.
I think you’re just being an apologist. This trade is all about rap music and high fives.
It might be just about rap music and high fives, but evidently that is having something to do with his trade value.
So DON’T trade him!!!
Right! KEEP him!
totally agree. for whatever reason the mets did not like milledge, la duca and mota (although that is obvious cause HE SUCKS)
just think that if we had re-signed la duca we coulda used milledge for something else…like starting in rightfield!
I guess only time will tell.
I still dont understand how someones trade value can plummet when A) they are 22 years old!!! and B) He has gotten better since being called up the first time….
The famous “Know your place rook” may have something to do with it. The pre-spring training rap album in which he does have a few choice words that have 4 letters and or offensive, his personality. I have nothing against him but its not an attractive thing to have on your team.
He is 22 years old. I made plenty of mistakes when I was 22 worse than saying a few curses. Milledge did nothing to show he was a “bad kid.” He seemed like a nice kid with some passion and flair…exactly what the likes of Beltran, Delgado, Wagner, etc. need. Someone with some life. Oh well….hopefully Church (described as Edmonds light) can light a fire. Doubt it.
Cuz I’m sure none of the other players on the Mets ever curse….
I’m fine with the deal. Milledge can’t hit a curveball and I’m pretty sure he never will. He’s got a good arm, but not a great head, poor plate discipline, baserunning, and strikes out way too much. If we really couldn’t package him in a deal for a pitcher, I guess I’m fine with it.
I’ve never really been big on him anyway and didn’t feel he deserved a spot in the lineup at any point during last year.
I agree that he didn’t deserved a spot in the lineup at any point during last year. So then there is noway to just give him right field for 2008.
We didn’t fill any holes… Church at best will produce as well as Milledge will. If you look at their stats from last year, Church was not really a better player. And offensively, Schneider was just horrendous. Offensively we have just downgrade at Right-Field and Catcher. Just think of it this way. The Nationals were the worst offense in the National League last year and we just traded a prospect for 1/4 of their starting offense. How does that make any sense?
And for Schneider’s supposed great handling of a pitching staff, the National’s blogger proved he clearly doesn’t do that much if the starters had the second worst ERA in the national league. And than the fact that he gets $5.3 million a year… what exactly are we paying for? I don’t get it. He caught 30% of baserunners trying to steal last year and that is really the only thing he has going for him. Is that worth paying him $5.3 million for two years and giving up on a prospect who played well last year? I don’t see how that is possible. I just have yet to find one positive from this trade in anyway. It is not like Milledge HAD to be traded. If other teams don’t like him, just keep him. What is wrong with that after his productive stint last year? Not to mention Milledge has a great throwing arm and is a natural center-fielder, meaning right-field should not be too tough for him with experience.
Come on Church is way better than Green. Quit bashing him as a downgrade. I rather have someone fighting for his paycheck everday in church then some clown in Green or a milledge that has yet to prove himself. Church numbers show he can play ball on this club even if he is in the 7th spot in the lineup.
Green, at least from an offensive standpoint was not terrible in 2007.
I think there’s a good chance that Milledge will be a better offensive player than Church before very long. But I would say that Church was better than Milledge last year, if only because he had maybe two and a half times as many ABs. I think by now Church has established a certain standard of offensive performance, which involves an OPS of over 800 in a tough ballpark in a lousy lineup. That’s decent production. Whether Milledge does better than that remains to be seen.
I’m sorry they traded Milledge, but it has to be seen in the context of the Mets desperately wanting to win in 2008. Let’s face it, even under the best of circumstances Milledge was still going to have some more growing pains in 2008. The showboating and scrumming during the last two games with the Marlins shows that he’s still pretty immature. I’m sure some people view that as spunk, spirit, a shot in the arm, etc., but I see it as immaturity that’s not helping the team. If Milledge were inspiring his teammates, that’d be one thing, but there’s a lot of evidence that a lot of them wish he would grow up and tone his act down.
If Church had a full season last year he would’ve had the same numbers as Sizmore in 06 without the stolen bags.
He’s always been a solid MLB hitter. Give him a shot to hit seventh will ya?
You are looking at this from the wrong angle. How can you say that a guy who hit 15 HR’s, 40 doubles, and drove in 70 runs is going to produce at least as well as a guy who has never even come close to those numbers?
Personally, I always kind of liked Church. I think that he could be really successful in this lineup considering the protection he will have.
We could wind up being pleasantly surprised by this move. Church could flourish. Or he could be a piece that somebody else wanted for a top of the rotation starter. Who knows?
You can’t make a judgment about how a catcher handles a staff by simply looking at a staff’s ERA. What if that staff is comprised entirely of pitchers like Lima, Park, Mota, Schoeneweis, Lawrence, Koo, and Vargas? The best catcher in the world can’t turn them turkeys into Cy Youngs.
If that blogger tried to make a judgment based on information like that then he has no clue what he is talking about.
CERA is somewhat telling. But the only way to tell is by looking at a catcher’s CERA longterm over many years in relation to other catchers on the same team and by observing that catcher close up and being privy to information that fans have no access to.
Milledge had great plate discipline for such a young player… this is noticed by the fact that he batted .272 and still had a .341 OBP. That means he walked about 7% of the time, which is actually pretty good. Especially for someone of his age where the hardest thing to learn is plate discipline. Baseball, more than any other sport, attitude does not matter. Baseball is an indivudal game, not a team sport. If Milledge has an attitude problem, which by the way is overblown, it is not going to cause David Wright to hit .260. In team sports such as basketball or football though, a player with an attitude problem can have an effect on the team. Just remember, Milledge carried the Mets offense form the #8 spot for the first month after the all-star break. He was playing so well that Willie was forced to play him in the #2 hole sometimes… and Willie hates putting young players in a position like that.
what hogwash. You WANT baseball to be an individual game, because it would validate your overreliance on stats. But it isn’t, and there really are players who can make their teammates better or worse.
Umm your post is a bit flawed. Milledge hit against mostly lefties. ( except for the period of time Beltran went down). Milledge did hit well in the 8 hole for a small sample of time, in which later he fizzled down later in the season. If you want to say that moving him up and down the lineup caused that be my guest but Milledge is unproven and their no way you give him right field for batting .272 . Milledge served no value to this team that an other player could not fill, chavez, maybe gomez, maybe a free agent. Milledge can not pitch 7innings, he can not pitch in the 8th inning. In other words hes no ace nor a setup man.
When did baseball become an individual game and not a team sport. You’re thinking of tennis.
Sebaz, instead of just making comments and stating opinions, why don’t you look at the stats. If you compare Church’s to Milledges, they really put up the same stats… but Milledge still has a lot more room to grow and is 7 years younger.
Player A: .272 BA, .349 OBP, .464 SLG
Player B: .272 BA, .341 OBP, .446 SLG
Player C: .291 BA , .352 OBP, .430 SLG
Player A is Ryan Church, B is Milledge and C is Green. Green was arguably better than Church, while Church was barely better than Milledge and this was Milledge’s rookie year! There is no reason to think Milledge won’t continue to improve, while I am hard pressed to find a reason why Church will improve.
You are forgetting that Milledge started out hot until pitchers figured him out. And Shawn Green only performed from the bench.
And Church, from the start of his career has been consistantly good. Milledge is a wait-and-see type of guy. Green is old and has not performed as a starter.
Surely you don’t think it’s that simple.
For one thing, you are taking Milledge’s 186 ABs and comparing them with Church’s 400+ ABs. Moreover, Church has another 400+ AB year in 2005 and did quite well. For another, Church was getting approximately half his ABs at RFK, which is generally a tough place to hit, at least for power. Finally — Church was hitting in a much weaker lineup than that of the Mets.
I do think Milledge will be better than Church, and that Church isn’t a great player. But it’s not right to say that Milledge and Church put up the “same stats” in 2007, and that’s not even talking about defense, where I think Church is at this point clearly better.
Once again, defense is COMPLETELY IGNORED. Church is a better defender than Green and Milledge.
Also, give me Church’s power and speed advantage over Green’s slightly better average and OBP.
Church can improve because he is in his physical prime, is coming off a solid first full season of playing time, and won’t have to hit in RFK for half his games. Not to mention he played on a garbage team who batted Da Meat Hook cleanup. Like someone else mentioned, this could be a LH version of Nady, except he can play D.
Not saying Milledge won’t eventually be better, but let’s stop with the tearing down of Church. He may not be an all star, but he’s not a 4th OF, no matter how many times Mike and the Mad Dog say it. He’s a solid role player who is a good all around ball player. I don’t want to hear how he is a 4th OF on a good team when the Yanks had Melky in CF a ton last year and the Red Sox had Crisp in CF.
On a team that had too many one dimensional players last year (Delgado, Alou, Green, and LoDuca) it’s nice to have acquired a well rounded player in Church. And while Schneider is one dimensional, at least he’s an excellent defensive catcher with a cannon. Once LoDuca’s average dropped he became a slap hitter who couldn’t throw anyone out.
Stating that Milledge’s value had taken a hit shouldn’t take the Mets off the hot seat. This was a huge, huge, baseball operations blunder here. One of two things happened. 1) The Mets totally undervalued Milledge and sold him for less than he was worth. Or, 2) The Mets held onto Milledge way too long and then sold him before he couldn’t get anything at all in return.
One way or another, the Mets failed to capitalize on Milledge’s value. Regardless of his current value, the guy was a top prospect just 18 months ago and could have netted the Mets many players better than Schneider and Church. When, exactly, did this team decide Milledge was done. A year ago? 6 months ago? Why did the Mets not trade him before his value plummeted, or, if his value did not plummet, why sell him for such a low value now?
This was a huge, huge blunder by the Mets organization, from the scouting department to the top. I don’t care how much Omar says he likes Schneider and Church – 18 months ago, the Mets wouldn’t trade Milledge for STARS. I am furious with this organization and, for the first time, with Omar Minya. Somewhere someone really messed this thing up.
Hindsight is 20/20 So, the mets took a gamble on keeping him and his value fell. It happens. This trade is not as devastating as it is being made out to be. Plus, last I checked the winter meetings haven’t started yet. Any of these pieces bring us pitching. All this is moot.
Seth Everett is a pig faced blowhard. This is the same guy who was screaming for the Mets to trade Milledge for Jason Jennings a year ago.
Thanks, but I’ll let the actual games tell me what someone is worth. I won’t take your obviously limited knowledge of the game as anything to believe.
This 22 year old kid hit about as well in terms of BA, OBP and SLG as Carlos Beltran and Alex Rios did in their first true rookie years. And he did it without his manager letting him play regularly.
Yeah, he was obviously destined for doom and failure as a player.
When will the losers that somehow infiltrate the NY media realize that they should understand something about a sport they get paid to cover?
this is a non sequitor. Anyone who hits .272 is Carlos Beltran? You have to look beyond the numbers- like, can he hit a curveball?
Or can he get at least 400 total career at bats before he gets cast away?
He was actually hitting breaking pitches alot better the last month of the season. And he’ll only continue to improve on his plate discipline.
What we do know is that he can hit a major league fastball. And he can hit it to another county. Not something you can say about Mr. Gomez quite yet.
Which is it? Do we need more at-bats to render a verdict, or is he already an untradeable uber-prospect? It seems like Milledge supporters only take a “wait-and-see” approach when he is criticized. I prefer a more cautious approach before drawing conclusions either way, but at some point, you have to make actionable predictions based on numbers AND scouting. Frankly, my take on this is that if his value really was low, it’s the worst time to trade him. But, they seem to have decided that he won’t be a star, and there’s nothing wrong with trusting your scouts and coaches to say so. You have to.
You mean the same scouts and coaches that didn’t realize his value was really low until everyone else around the league had already gotten there? I’m sorry, but to me the team that a player plays for should be able to see a problem before everyone else. If they saw his value falling, they could have traded him before it hit rock bottom. It seems like they didn’t realize his value was so low until they tried to trade him and couldn’t get anything for him.
I just don’t get it, I really don’t. Did they think he was good, and then panic when they saw how low his value was? Did they say, “well everyone else thinks he’s terrible, so he must be?” If they thought he was good, why did they trade him at low value? If they thought he was bad, why’d it take so long for them to trade him? I am just completely baffled.
The assessment changed.
You mean the same scouts that gave up on Kazmir?
The Wilpons will not tolerate off-field headlines, unless that are charitable
Benson had Anna
LoDuca had his affair. He did not have Willie’s back. He pointed out that his spanish speaking teammates were bilingual
Milledge had his rap CD
This is not a racially motivated move, it is a move to adhere to Willie’s no nonsense approach to the game.
It’s a bit Cashen-esque
They won’t tolerate off the field stuff?
THEN DON’T BRING THOSE PEOPLE IN THE FIRST PLACE
Right on AgeesCatch
Although it’s not Cashen-esque. It screams, Wilpon Coupons. They are the common denominator here. It’s the GMs who catch heat for it, not them ever. Until Kazmir. then they realized they needed baseball guys. Now they think they know better.
All these haters out there… Could we wait for Omar to finish what he’s doing before we start calling for his head? I think they need you people at the Garden right now.
I liked Milledge as much as the next guy, but since Hundley blew out his elbow, the Mets haven’t been able to throw out anyone. That’s 10 years! Aren’t you tired of Vinny Castilla stealing second? Do you think Estrada was going to suddenly grow a gun? Can Schneider hit? Not really, but the Mets still boast a solid 1-7 in the batting order. Don’t you guys want someone who will shut down the running game like Yadier did in the NLCS to us?
And Church hit well in RFK. If you’ve been down there, you know that’s no easy task. The guy had 43 doubles last season. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. And if he’s flipped in a package for Bedard, Haren or Blanton, all the better.
Could we have gotten more for him? Probably not. And now many of you can’t deal with that reality. There are too many of us that think a Pelfrey, Humber, Gomez package will get us Johan Santana and Joe Mauer. And we call the Fan and email Jason Stark with these trades and the rest of the baseball world laughs at us! Wake up! Milledge is a good prospect with baggage. And a franchise that has had to deal with firecrackers, bleach, fights outside of pizza parlors, marijuana-using relievers, etc… is bound to look unfavorably on “Bend ya Knees.”
So, to the disillusioned fanbase, welcome to our harsh reality where our prospects aren’t as sought after as we had hoped. If this makes you not want to be a Mets fan, fine…go be a Nats fan. Maybe then I’ll actually be able to get a ticket for CitiField.
It is absurd that you would simply accept that as a harsh reality. It is an enormous blunder by the Mets organization that their players or either losing value, or losing perceived value. The whole point of a minor league system is to evaluate your players, and decide who is for real, and who should be traded. Regardless, the job of an organization is to hype EVERYONE, so that whether they play for you or need to be traded, their full value is realized.
For the first time, I am seriously questioning where this organization is going. It’s not just about this trade – it is about the fact that our prospects either have no value, or no perceived value. This isn’t something to be accepted – as a Mets fan, it is somethign to be questioned again and again until answers are given.
It is true that some GMs (Schuerholz) have the magic ability to trade young prospects at the height of their value. I also think that it’s very disappointing to see Milledge net so little. However, remember that there was enormous pressure on the Mets over the last four years not to repeat the Kazmir blunder, and so Omar was reluctant to trade Milledge at the time when his promise as a player at his greatest. After all, why wouldn’t you want to *keep* a player at that stage?
In the end, the person who determines the player’s value is the player. Milledge could have put to rest any questions about his value by playing well and acting like an adult. I know a lot of people here think that Milledge “put up good numbers” in 2007 but there’s a *reason* Beane and everyone else have cooled on him. And it’s not because of the Mets’ failure to hype him enough. Other people just aren’t that stupid anymore that they’re going to assess value based on hype. There’s too much info out there now.
I basically feel like we’re going to regret this trade and that Milledge is going to be very good. Maybe it would have been better just to keep Milledge. However, the fact that has trade value has fallen shouldn’t be taxed just to Omar.
Exactly. That’s why I said I am upset with the whole organization. It’s not just Omar – it’s everyone from the scouts up.
Being “scared” to repeat the Kazmir trade is not acceptable. The Kazmir deal is part of the problem. This team has no ability to determine its good prospects from its poor ones. It traded a guy at his peak who, to everyone else in baseball, was clearly for real. Meanwhile, they held onto Milledge until his value fell so that this was all that he netted. Or, they traded him for nothing when he is still going to be a great player. We don’t know yet. Either way – they did not capitalize on his full potential that he once had.
I really don’t care what his value was now. Even if his value right now was not even enough to net a bag of balls, the Mets screwed up. The point is that the Mets drafted a guy in 2003 who should have been a top three pick if he hadn’t done what many high schoolers have done before him. They did not capitalize on that value, and now we have Ryan Church and Brian Schneider to show for it.
Whoever is making these decisions is to fault. If it’s Omar, so be it. If it’s scouts, so be it. If it’s Fred and Jeff, so be it. They’re all a part of the Mets organization, and it’s an organization that is very quickly losing its fan base.
All these haters out there… Could we wait for Omar to finish what he’s doing before we start calling for his head? I think they need you people at the Garden right now.
These kind of comments are really starting to piss me off. This team was one inning away from the series in ‘06 and all I heard about was how they were a pitcher away entering the ‘07 off-season… so what did they do? NOTHING. There biggest pitcher acquisition was Jorge Sosa.
If you expect Mets fans to sit back and suffer through another off-season of nothing as our World Series window continues to shrink you are FOOL. This team is built to win now before Pedro and Delgado retire and we lose Maine or Ollie to free agency.
I refuse to spend a dime on this team until they show me they actually intend to win a World Series in ‘08. This move accomplished nothing except to indicate that Minaya is getting desperate
hear, hear!
Say Omar pulls off a move for Santana of Haren or some front-line star, unless Schneider or Church are in the deal that does not excuse him from this terrible trade. You can slice this trade as many ways as you want, but the fact is Schneider is maybe the worst offensive catcher in the league, and Ryan Church, a 29 year old, was offensively as good as 22 year Lastings Milledge. I think 23 year old Milledge might be a little better than Church, while I don’t even see why Schneider is on the team. Throwing out 30% of baserunners is not worth his disugsting .235 average. No excuse for this terrible trade.
I really think that Lastings Milledge was traded because he is so damn ugly.
you obviously are not an underage girl then
Nice…
I am not sure I understand this trade…we just edged the median age of this team up a few notches and I still do not see what we got in return that we can offer for pitching that we did not have before.
But I am hoping that there is some truth of some people’s speculation here that Omar has something up his sleeve and did this as an intermediate step for a multi-player trade.
and for whoever said Church did well in RFK stadium… how about Milledge doing well in Shea? IBoth are pitchers parks so that doesn’t really say anything
RFK is worse.
Come on. It’s not like we traded for Ryan Langerhans. Church is a solid hitter and a defensive upgrade. His LH bat will bring some more balance to the lineup.
I really don’t get what the big debate is over. Most Mets fans, I would assume, believe Milledge will be a good ballplayer. Ryan Church just finished up a solid campaign in his first year getting regular playing time.
Instead of gambling on Milledge for a season, Omar is taking the safer Church, who proved he could hit in the bigs over 400 abs, plays solid D, and is LH. This also slows down the time frame on FMart and Gomez, who the Mets and everyone in baseball seem to be higher on than Milledge.
At the same time he got one of the best defensive catchers in the bigs, who also happens to bat LH, making him the perfect partner for Castro.
Minaya solidified the team defense, which helps improve our current pitching staff should we not land a big time starter.
This is complete and utter garbage….Omar is a horrific GM and the Wilpon’s are terrible owners. This sense of the Mets turning things around with their young core, prospects on the way, SNY, and the new stadium is now completely 180…..we will go into the new $850 million CitiField in 2009 a .500 ballclub. At least the Wilpons will be putting money in the pockets……
When the Mets flip Gomez, Heilman, Pelfrey and Estrada to Baltimore will you chnage your mind?
Say Omar does flip Gomez, Heilman, Pelfrey, and Estrada to Baltimore for Bedard. Now we got a very good pitcher and Ryan Church is our everyday RF…..please tell me there is more because I;m not convinced this team is any better…..
So you’re complaining about our 7th hitter with 15 HRs and 40 2B, and a catcher/ 8 hitter who can call a good game, when we would have Bedard, Martinez, Perez, Maine and other in the rotation.
Go to the Yankees isf you want to complain about a guy like Church hitting 7th. At least the’re appreciative and in denial of their so called crap.
While the Yanks and Sox battle it out for the WS title.
Hey, at least the Mets are spending responsibly.
Bowden said he and Omar talked about the trade every day for 4.5 months.
Maybe he was hypnotized?
Oh, and check the dimensions of RFK vs. Shea. And word is that the dimensions are actually larger in the power alleys of RFK, something ridiculous like 388!
“When the Mets flip Gomez, Heilman, Pelfrey and Estrada to Baltimore will you chnage your mind?”
Even if that were to happen, that doesn’t defend the trade that he made today. Church and Schneider were not involved, so either way this trade is still terrible. Also, no way that happens. If even the Nationals wouldn’t take Estrada, why would would Baltimore?
Why would the Nats want Estrada?
The irony behind all of this is that the Nats can afford to trade Schneider, (who btw did a tremendous job holding together the National pitching staff), only because they have the Flores kid that they grabbed from the Mets when he was left unprotected in the Rule V draft.
its not just about dimensions when you disucss a pitchers park… some are just really hard to hit in, such as shea stadium… there really isn’t much of a difference between the parks… and even if there was, how much does that really matter. The difference between the two is extremely small, and than considering a player only plays half his games in their home park, the fact is it wont make much of a difference if you play in RFK or Shea.
RFK is tougher on lefties, Shea on righties.
We traded Milledge (RH) for Church (LH).
Also, Schneider is also LH. Remember how many homers Doug Mientkiewicz popped out of Shea?
He wasn’t worth the money that it cost to put the lettering on his jersey.
They got it for cheap cross-town, where the don’t have names on the jerseys.
Check it out.
At least Church can dance…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysSpqrYaqkM
Oh god thats funny. Its not Mark Madsen from the Lakers championship parades, but its close!
hey i had a wacky trade proposal… I know people might think i am crazy but i think twins might except a deal for maine, gomez, heilman and humber or pelfrey (i prefer humber) for Santana. After the trade go out and sign silva and mahay or hawkings. I think that deal is better than the yankees and bo sox deal. Yea Maine is great but clearly the mets need to part with someone significant. I think Baltimore will not take a trade the mets offered. Comeon… Humber?
And then what?
We have a rotation of Martinez, Santana, Perez, Hernandez and Silva, (the back end is utterly terrible fora full 162 game season)
And a bullpen of Sosa, Feliciano, Schoeneweis, Wagner, Mahay, Sanchez and Smith.
Then in 09 we have Santana, Perez and Silva in the rotation with 2 big gaps there, and also in left field and first base, with average at best hitters at second and catcher.
I’d leave Maine out of this.
On a lighter note, at least it’s not Torrealba!
Shea is ranked 23 worst hitters park, RFK is #27. Negligible difference.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor
I can’t believe they didn’t use him for at least a relief pitching, his stock is that low that Omar couldn’t throw in a low level prospect or two and get Bowden to give up the wookie
Give up the Wookie…
That’s good…
Some of you people base your opinions off such HUGE assumptions it’s ridiculous.
Ok, time to weigh in. Obviously, Milledge wasn’t very attractive on the trade market. There’s nothing you can do to change that if that was the case, which it seemed to be. He’s one of those guys, you thought he’d be better than he was, and he’s not, you can’t call them all. That being said, along with him not being able to fetch back pitching, which would have been his best role, Omar also felt he wasn’t going to beable to be an everyday RF. Fair enough, i can’t say either way if he could have. If you decide he can’t, at this point, sorry to say, you have to trade him. You have guys waiting in the wings the next few years to take over (Gomez/Martinez) and if you trade him for a guy like Church, you get production now, not later. I know everyone will bust on Church, but lets see who puts up the better numbers next year. As for Schneider, I have to say, this is what makes the trade. You guys are scoffing at a 30% CS, and that’s one of his worst years. Guys, that’s pretty good. Finally we have D behind the plate and the guy is well known for his ability to handle pitchers. Now, i’m not saying this trade is great or anything. It sucks that Milledge’s value is this low, who wouldn’t want it to be higher so he could fetch us a pitcher? But face it, it isn’t, and Omar did what he had to do to make us better next year. offensive numbers aren’t everything, just remember how awful our right field defense has been for the past 2 years, yeah…
The Mets organization still completely blew this whole process of dealing with Milledge. I’m just gonna keep saying it until someone takes the blame. I am so angry.
sorry accidentally hit submit. But i think that trade makes us a better team. And the A’s are not trading Haren. They are just messing around to see his value. He is cheap for another three years, open your eyes and stop being bias. Why in the world would anyone trade him, unless beene get his type of deal, which ripping someone off. Like Mulder or haren. He has no need to trade him yet. I am starting to agree with rosenthall that the mets will not get an ace this off season and get a livan hernandez. I stopped listening to Omar because i feel everytime he talks a lie comes out. For example yesterday he stated pitching is our priority and we are not looking for a catcher and the next day he gets a cather. He always states in an interview that he is going do this and that while he has done nothing. The O’s want a ton and roberto hernandez for tejada ( he would have been an angel by now if this wasnt true) a decling player who has a good chance to be on the mitchell report. Why would bedard be cheap enough for the mets to get while every team have balked at the mets offers ?
They wouldn’t shop him for the purpose of not trading him. They are having a fire sale.
Have you ever considered that Schneider came in as a package?
There hasn’t been a concrete lie. Has he promised us Zito? no. Did he say he’d make a big move before Dec. 3? No. He said he WOULDN’T!!!!
Not every other team has balked at the Mets offers. The twins asking price was high.
The A’s never got a formal offer from the Mets.
The O’s rejected the most lopsided trade ever.
If Milledge was such a problem child and management soured on him, what do you call Ryan Church? How about an anti-Semite. Read the Washington Post article: Nats’ Church Apologizes for Remarks About Jews.
What the heck is this team thinking! I am thoroughly disgusted.
September, 2005.
C’mon, dude…
What does the date have to do with the incident? If part of the thinking of the Milledge trade was to get rid of potential trouble, we may have found even more with Church. I for one will not root for him!
He may be a religious nut but he’s OUR RELIGIOUS NUT!
As a Jew, I don’t care about his ignorance and stupidity. I doubt that that incident was of blatant bigotry. Although I will forever disparage him, if he hits well and keeps his mouth shut in NY, he can hit seventh in my lineup.
Not to mention that the “incident” was blown completely out of proportion. Church’s biggest mistake was making public a conversation he had with his religious advisor.
Church is not a biggot, ignorant, or stupid because he voiced what every Catholic has been told since they were in grade school.
Let’s see Church spread the word that all Jews are headed towards eternal damnation. I’m sure that the fans will not turn on him, especially giving the large Jewish population in NY. Church should have kept his mouth shut!
Remember when Rocker opened his mouth and spread his hatred of New Yorkers and Gays. The New York fans really supported him, right?
Just because people may be told something does not mean that it is right! If Church wants to become a missionary and spread the “word,” he should quit baseball and concentrate on spreading the “word.” This bigotry has no place in baseball!
I hope that Church is not on the team come opening day. The Wilpons should have known better!
I guess re-signing Shawn Green is out of the question then?
It’s quite obvious that he was being ignorant, because he seems to think that he must “warn that Jews” it’s ignorant, stupid and hilarious. I am not saying he is an ignorant, stupid person, but that was a pretty dumb blunder, especially with the religious feuds going on today.
Of course I am only one Jew, but I’d give the guy a break.
Mojo
First off, this is not the place for this discussion.
But since it has come up, it doesn’t truly matter what is “right”. He didn’t say that all Jews were headed towards eternal damnation, he asked the chaplain if his girlfriend at the time, as a Jew, was headed toward eternal damnation for not being a Christian. Not to mention, BTW, that this was a statement made after a game as a joke to the team chaplain in front of a few of his teammates. If you read more than one article on this, you know that it was a joke, and the teammates that were present thought it was quite funny.
There’s always someone to twist something into a story to get people like you worked up. Since that day, have you heard anything else about this episode? No. So what does that tell you?
Ok, so all his teammates found it was “quite funny.” Its just a hilarious good time when we all talk about jews going to hell. Let’s all join in the fun. So I guess Church wasn’t the only ignorant one, all of his teammates who were laughing are as well. Like I responded to your other comments about the comments being taken out of context. I really don’t think he is an anti-semite after reading his comments, but I do believe his comments were ignorant. I personally don’t think I’m going to hell, sorry to be in disagreement with what the “entire” Christian population was taught growing up. If thats what you are all being taught, than no wonder why there are so many people who hate and look down upon jews.
Not to mention that Church’s girlfriend was in fact, Jewish…
Which is why he made the comment.
Haven’t you ever told an off-color joke?
Ryan Church….meet Scott Schoeneweis.
You say Omar felt Milledge couldn’t be an everyday right fielder. Why? What has he done to prove he couldn’t? He put up almost the EXACT same stats as Ryan Church, but he was 22 instead of 29. And ok, so Schneider upgrades the defense a little bit. A. He is old. B. This is offest by him killing us with his bat in the lineup. He has thrown out less and less runners for the past three years. And at his age, a catcher starts to wear down. There is no reason to think he will get the job done as a starter. And why will Milledge not be at least as productive as Church in 2008, if not more productive, if he was just as productive as Church in 2006. And Milledge played fine defense in right-field. He has a cannon of an arm and the range of a center-fielder. He made a few mistakes with reading balls, but that is only because he needs more time to get used to right-field
thats the thing man, we don’t know why, we’re not the GM, we’re not major league scouts, what do we know? We only can make judgements once things happen, which is what we’re going to have to do on this one. We’re not capable of saying, Milledge will be a star, becaues if we do? who cares, our jobs aren’t on the line if we’re right or won’t, GM’s and scouts, their jobs are. All we can do is see what happens.
Milledge didn’t put up similar numbers to Church. In all of Church’s MLB years Ryan’s been a lot better, actually.
I’m divided on whether or not the Mets received fair value in their trade with the Nationals. The argument – well stated by the Post’s Joel Sherman on his “Hardball” blog – that even if GM Omar Minaya had discussed this potential swap with his D.C. counterpart, Jim Bowden, weeks ago, it wasn’t imperative that the deal be consummated only days prior to the start of the Winter Meetings; is well founded. If Brian Schneider and Ryan Church were truly the best players the Mets could get in return for Lastings Milledge, then there was no reason to believe that Milledge’s stock could have fallen any lower if they had simply waited a little longer before pulling the trigger. It can also be argued that if Milledge’s value had decreased so precipitously, that he wouldn’t have brought back a starting pitcher in return, then the Mets would have been better served by playing Milledge in RF full time next season; providing him with the opportunity to raise it, at the very least. There’s little question – in my mind, anyway – that the Mets sold low on Lastings Milledge. Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez may yet prove to be the true jewels of the Mets outfield prospects, but Milledge is ready to contribute now. However, I believe the Mets are less at fault for choosing to trade him now, as opposed to during each of the last two seasons; when a deal could have yielded either Manny Ramirez or Barry Zito. As far as their return for Milledge is concerned, it’s important to remember that finding a starting catcher was a priority for the Mets, and it became apparent that their acquisition of Estrada was merely a salary dump of Mota. Brian Schneider’s defensive skills at catcher are well above average, and he should have a positive impact on the team’s pitching staff, particularly the young duo of John Maine and Oliver Perez. Ryan Church provides a capable bat, with some pop, in the Mets’ outfield. He should make for a useful insurance policy when Moises Alou makes his eventual trip to the DL. At this point, I’m willing to say that both team’s nearly broke even with this trade, but the Nationals get a slight edge over the Mets due to Milledge’s, yet to be established, star power capability. I’m concerned about the (shrinking) probability of the Mets acquiring a top caliber starting pitcher, but I’ll reserve judgment on the entire off-season until opening day.
couldn’t have said it any better
Thank you for reading it for me. Can you summarize it without using the letter “a?”
At first, I was way down on the trade, but now I’m over it. IN NO WAY was Lastings Milledge going to be a starting RF on a Willie Randolph team. Not after getting himself suspended during the Collapse in Florida when the Mets really needed him with Beltran and half the outfielders banged up. Add that to the high-fiving and HR-jiving during the final weekend. And the rap record. And other assorted shenanigans.
I liked him too, but he wasn’t going to play for this manager or this ownership. And those hi-jinx likely hurt his value with other teams. He could easily become the next Milton Bradley, a pretty good player who no one’s gonna want.
At least Omar got two guys who can help the team. It’s not a sexy deal, but it could help the Mets in 2008. This is a win-now team and 2008 is a make or break year for this regime. They’re not thinking about five years down the line right now.
exactly
i totally forgot about that suspension, too
If they give away Gomez, Heilman, Pelfrey and Estrada for Bedard or Haren they have a core of Reyes, Beltran, Wright, Haren/Bedard, Maine, Perez, Mulvey, Sanchez. Smith and Castillo as a lock for the next 4 years at least. I wouldn’t mind a Ryan Church added to that list.
I don’t want to hear about how Schneider will have a great effect on our pitching staff… will it be as great as the effect on the Nat’s starteers (2nd lowest ERA in the NL) ? This trade makes no sense from any point unless the sole reason was to catch more baserunners. Which is definitely not worth a prospect like Milledge
Can you name, at least, one pitcher who won 15 games on the Washington Nationals starting rotation last season? The Mets had two.
This trade will be one of the rare trades that works out for both teams. I do like Milledge but I am not a nutswinger of his like many on here are. His value has diminished over the past few years. He has done nothing to show that he will put up huge numbers. IMO, his best assest and biggest sign of potential is his bat. Thats it. He was an OK defender with an abover average arm. SPeed was ok but nothing out of the ordinary.
What pissed me off most about Millz was his inability to adjust..even in the slightest. All pitchers had to do was throw him off spped away. He never showed signs of taking it the other way. Most of his hits seemed “cued”…nothing for the most part was solid.
Church is a solid hitter. Hes not a big name but I have a feeling he will do well. AT worste he and Millz are a wash. I think hes a better short term answer than Millz as well.
As for Schneider who cares if he cant hit? What catcher does? Him and Castro will be a formidable duo.
As long as this trade doesnt hinder our chances of landing a frontline starter than I am content with this deal. I think Church will be a solid player for us. I have watched him play. And he still has upside.
Too much stock has been put into Milledge potential. I have seen it since day 1 with Millz. Hes not a star. You can tell when you first see one.
In my eyes we improved our catching situation and at worste have a wash in RF. At worste.
Omar needs to land a starter and or a reliever before the season. Hopefully a package of Gomez, Mulvey and Humber can land Haren. If it does then I am really loving this offseason
I cant believe the Mets offered that weak of a package for Bedard that i read. They better go hard after him, Santana, or Haren.
I am still high on Pelfrey. Humber on the other hand you can tell hes not the real deal. People seem to be high on Mulvey so thats good. Plus Guerrera is a hidden secret.
This over reaction of losing is boggling my mind. What we should be more concerned about is if Omar will get a deal done for an ace. That is the number 1 issue this off season. If Bedard is on the block, which IDK why he would be, Omar should make that his number 1 priority.
Our overall team d has improved with this trade today. That might not sound sexy or flashy but that is the foundation of all Championships. Up the Middle we are set. And overall we have no holes except maybe 1st. Alou is abover average as is Wright.
If Padillia and or Sanchez can contribute this year then we are set in the pen as well.
We need 1 dam starter.
Gomez or Fmart
and
Pelfrey, Humber, Mulvey, Guerrera(2 or 3 of them)
should be enough to land 1.
The ideal package for me would be Gomez, Mulvey, Humber and another prospect for Bedard or Haren.
If we keep Pelfrey and Fmart and land either one I will be pumped.
Like Millz, I am not sold on Gomez. Omar should take this whole Milledge situation and learn from it. Gomez stock, for some reason is considerably high. Unlike what he did with Millz, Omar should use that to his advantage and deal him now.
I think Fmart, Pelfrey, and Guerrera are the legit prospects we have.
my ideal team would be the current starting lineup and a rotation of
Haren/Bedard
Pedro
Maine
Olly
Pelfrey
with Guerrera and Fmart waiting in the wings
Cmon Omar work some Magic
correction….
L Millz bat speed not his bat overall is his best assest/sign of potential
I’d include Heilman in a deal as the O’s bullpen is in shambles. Estrada because they are trading Hernandez. Then, add Gomez and Pelfrey as prospects with a side of Gotay and there’s your deal.
Gomez, Heilman, Pelfrey, Estrada and Gomez shipped to Baltimore for Bedard.
And then send Humber somewhere for a hitting prospect.
Cerrone, come on guy…don’t sugarcoat this…I know you just report things that others report…but it just seems like you pick these rosey articles or write ups…
This is a miserable trade. We didn’t NEED a RF. We didn’t NEED a catcher.
You’re telling me, even if his stock plummeted that we couldn’t have gotten at least a good relief guy?
We need a starting pitcher and an 8th inning guy. Couldn’t get Rauch or Cordero for Milledge? Come on. There was no reason for this trade at all. Giving up a potential solid major leaguer for two guys in decline (especially at the catcher position) which solved no immediate need and absolutely no long term fix.
I just don’t get it.
What dont you get? Church IS a “solid” major leaguer whereas Millz at best CAN be one.
OK…so if you wanna say that the older Church had the same numbers as Milledge last year…ok…great…he matched the production of a young kid still learning a different position.
So, even if you think just in terms of both their stats from last year as a wash…
I’d even rather have Estrada over Rey Ordonez catching.
Once again what I don’t get, Swingers, is that there was no need for this trade. If we never had milledge and the nat’s were dumb enough to take schneider and church for a top prospect – I’d be extremely happy and jump at the chance.
Catching is way more about defense than shortstop. Terrible comparison.
Church has proven that he is good. Every year, his OPS has been at least .800. He produced in RFK, which is very hard.
PS Rey Ordonez has something all of the current Mets do not have: An NLCS championship ring.
per 162 games:
Schnieder hits .260+ with 10 homers a .320 obp and 60+ rbi’s with solid defense
not eye-popping numbers, for an 8 hole lefty hitter to pair up with Castro? far from rey ordonez
Church’s numbers were better than Milledge’s were.
How about this one from Keith Law?
Lastings Milledge is still one of the better young outfield prospects in the game. By dealing him for an awful player in Brian Schneider, the Mets sold low on a former first-round pick with a lot of upside and committed two years and too much money to a catcher who can’t hit.
The Mets get … nothing, or close to it. Schneider will earn $10.3 million over the next two years to sit behind the plate when the rules call for it, and to make 300-odd outs at the plate while hitting .230/.320/.330 or thereabouts.
The only way this deal doesn’t turn out to be a disaster for the Mets — second in this decade only to the Victor Zambrano-Scott Kazmir deal — is if Milledge doesn’t pan out as a hitter, and the smart money is that he will. This is a heist for Washington, and a serious mismanagement of assets for the Mets.
…I agree with him 110%
He seems tto leave out all of Church’s successes, MIlledge’s inablility to hit right handers and breaking pitches, Schneider’s help with a dreadful Nationals pitching staff. and pretty much all of Church period.
What success for Church? He had trouble cracking the starting lineup for a 4th place team
WOW WHAT A GREAT PLAYER
Maybe that whole:
“I have actually achieved in the MLB” thing.
Look at every one of Church’s years.
Then look at Milledge’s. Church has been much better. He is no longer a prospect. He is a proven talent, who could even hit his prime next year and put up Milledge-like numbers.
Please stop using illogical comparisons.
So b/c he was special assistant (coffee guy) to the gm in toronto (when they didn’t win a single thing) this guy has some sort of pulse on the league? More so than guys who are ACTUALLY GM’s?
Since when are 29 year olds “guys in decline?”
Since when are 22 year olds “done?”
Who said he was done?
No one. The thought here is that he just wasn’t going to fit into this mets team and that this move benefits the mets now, but maybe not in the future.
That’s great, but unless they were giving up on him, they could have held onto him and traded him for something more value. The problem here isn’t trading away prospects to go for now – I’m all for that. It’s trading away prospects for less than they’re worth.
Milledge at best will be a solid everyday player. If he ahs this high ceiling how come Beane soured on him?
You peopel are overating Milledge and his value.
The only way this was a horrible deal was of it hinders the Mets from getting a starter. Clearly it wont otherwise Omar wouldnt have done it…That should tell you all you need to know about what the O’s, Twins and A’s thought of Millz.
Stop overating Millz and dont or a second think this is the Kazmir debalce all over again. Millz will never be a stud like Kaz is and will be be.
everyone please stop trying to defend this trade it doesn’t make any sense no matter how you look at it (unless u think its part of another soon to be move which i doubt)
if milledges stock really dropped that much then just hold on to him and let him try to be the rf…even those who want to defend this trade have to admit that lastings has more potential than church so y not let him try to earn the spot…if he had played in as many games as church his #’s were on pace to be better than church and hes 22 instead of 29 for god sakes
this is awfulllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
One constant topic of discussion here is how Milledge’s value has declined. As a Nats fan, I have two perspectives on this.
First, the Nats’ scouting and organizational talent is pretty good and it’s been an area of constant investment by the team. While I’m not saying it’s the best in the MLB, I am saying that it’s probably not a piece of crap. Therefore, we probably at least have some decent idea that we’re getting a very good player in this trade. If you’ve followed the Nationals at all, you’ll notice that Jim Bowden asks for the moon in prospective players before he’ll even give you a wooden nickel. Plus, the Nationals front office strangely overvalues Schneider, meaning that we must have thought we were getting something pretty darn good to swap him for Milledge.
Second, think for a second for other reasons why Milledge’s value might have declined. I say value here, because I’m suggesting that maybe his on or off-field performance had nothing to do with the decline of his value. Maybe it’s instead a function of everyone’s stellar demands in this incredibly bullish pitching market that’s fueled by the Yanks and Sox. Because of how much the GMs on teams with pitchers know they can get for their guys (since there are few teams that don’t have at least one pitching question mark), they’re simply raising the asking price, and Milledge just isn’t enough anymore to satisfy it.
These are just two thoughts from a Nats fan who is of the opinion that you pretty much got hosed on this deal.
So you don’t know much about milledge and you didn’t mention church
I don’t mention Church because while Church for you might be the bigger piece, he’s not for the Nationals front office. While Church is great (and I believe that he’s better than Aaron Rowand or Torii Hunter at least), the Nationals don’t value him and my point of comparison was in terms of value.
As for Milledge, i know that he’s projected to hit better than Church next year. I know that he was one of baseball’s premier prospects until this offseason. I also know that he started getting in trouble with his off-field antics when we stole our Manager Manny Acta away from you and that those two are apparently close friends. I also know that this same Manny Acta, plus the rest of the Nationals team helped turn around another troubled player this year known as Dmitri Young.
Worst case scenario for the Nationals is that Milledge doesn’t pan out and we get another 4th outfielder to go with our collection. We didn’t value Church much anyway and at his age, he wasn’t going to be peaking when Ryan Zimmerman and our pitching prospects were. We lost Brian Schneider, our overpaid pitcher who had basically the same offensive production of Jesus Flores who Minaya let us have in the Rule 5 Draft last year minus the $5 million salary.
Worst case scenario for the Mets is that you didn’t give Milledge a chance and he turns out to be the superstar everyone else thought he would be 12 months ago, while Church declines and Schneider “develops” your pitching to the 2nd worst ERA in the league like ours.
One of the biggest errors in your thinking is to judge a catcher’s game calling and handling of pitchers on the staff ERA. You can’t do that, and I don’t know that any sabermetrician would. It’s mostly the result of the quality of the pitchers the GM puts on the team. You’re not going to have a good CERA no matter how good a catcher you are if you have 10-12 lousy pitchers on your staff (ie, a staff full of Livan Hernandezes and Jose Limas)
You can use CERA to compare catchers vs. other catchers on the SAME team long-term. But that’s about it and even that has its flaws.
Schneider has an excellent rep for working with pitchers as well as a good CS%. Maybe his rep is underserved, but Omar saw him close up every day for a few years, and was also privy to the type of information on catchers that we fans never see — information on how a catcher really relates to his pitching staff. So I’m going to give Omar the benefit of the doubt on Schneider. We’ll have to wait and see what he does with the Mets’ pitching staff.
As for Mllledge, he has a lot of upside, no doubt. And Church probably has little if no upside at this point. But by the same token, I don’t think Milledge will ever turn into an all-star. He’s got holes in his hitting, and despite his supposed speed does not steal any bases. And it’s not because he hit 8th alot. When he hit in other spots, he still won’t steal any bases. His defense is also somewhat suspect as he often takes odd routes to balls. Look at his ZR. It is also not that great. Ryan Church has better career ZR numbers at all three outfield positions.
As with many, I think this deal will benefit both sides. I don’t think anyone got hosed on this. Though I do think the Nats getting Jose Flores was a steal and Omar was asleep at the wheel at the time of last year’s Rule 5 draft.
One more thing — Milledge’s so-called off-field troubles (which are overblown) began way before he came in contact with Acta and continued while Acta was with the Mets. So it appears he had little impact on Milledge in that area. Having said that, I think Acta is a very good manager who handles players very well. He should work very well with Milledge and if anything will help get the most out of this player.
Well, it has officially begun. Omar came to the Mets wanting to build through the farm and now 2 years worth of frustration and failure has turned him into Jim Duquette.
Obviously, Omar Minaya fears for his job if the Mets do not reach the postseason this year. So hold on to your hats (or should I say prospects) because the Mets Prospect fire sale has begun. Billy Beane is gonna rake Omar over the coals for Haren and then Omar will settle on Blanton (a #2 starter) for 4, maybe 5 of our best prospects.
Is anybody else dreaming of the Steve Phillips era?? At least he got us to the World Series and if Timo ran and an Umpire had the balls to eject Clemens for trying to mame Piazza, perhaps a World Series Championship. I’m willing to bet that if Steve Phillips was still the GM we would have an Ace starter……Kazmir.
i wish bean raked omar over the coals and we had gotten haren
would’ve been 1000x better than getting raked over the coals by bowden and coming away w/ a backup catcher and a 4th of
big time move really puts us in position to win it all this year
All I can say is that I’m really starting to worry. I’m definitely more of a glass full guy when speaking of Omar Minaya, who I love; however some of these moves recently all seem to be made on a need and cost effective basis.
DId anyone hear Minaya on WFAN with Mike and Chris? Is it just me, or did the usually smooth talking Minaya seem to stumble and bumble his way through that interview. To me, he didn’t really seem to believe what he was saying. He was doing his usual positive GM spin, but something tells me this wasn’t completely Omar’s call. I’m just afraid that we are going back to the cost conscience Mets who turned a 2000 world series team, into a joke because they wanted to cut corners.
DIdn’t we learn anything last season and last offseason? Omar felt he could rely on a solid bullpen and roll the dice with unproven starters because the offense was so good. How did that turn out? What scares me more right now is that I do believe Minaya is truly trying his best to get an ace, It’s just that other teams don’t seem to want any of their prospects. It’s almost as if there is a conspiracy to keep the Mets down.
This quote is from a Thursday article in the NY Post, it’s a quote from Minaya about the starting pitching staff. After I read this, I really started to worry, I just don’t like what this statement could mean for the 2008 season.
Minaya said he is prioritizing finding a No. 1 starter.
“We would like to be able to get it if we can,” he said. “But I do hate to give up young players. I would prefer doing major league player for major league player in a trade. That might not be possible. But you know me, if I had to pay a little more to get a premium guy, I would. But I won’t go crazy, though.”
Oh I heard that interview and he sounded half drunk. Studdering and repeating himself.
12 months ago we were dreaming of a Dynasty, now we’ll be lucky to field a playoff team.
Oh and NEVER, EVER under estimate the cheapness of Freddie Coupons and the Discount Family. Keep in mind the financial windfall from hosting 6 playoff games in 2006. Where did that money go?? It was at very least $75 million, where did it go?? Did the Coupon Family reinvest it in the team??? No, last time I checked our ace starter is pitching for the Giants. Now this offseason, subtract Glavine’s $10 million, Lo Duca’s $6.5 million, Mota’s $3.5 million, and Valentin’s $3 million. That’s almost $25 million. Where is all this money going, back into the team??? Nope, right into Freddie Coupon’s pockets.
Listen up and shelve the stupid Roto numbers. Regardless of the spin, we all need to accept that the Wilpon’s are officially in full ‘panic’ mode. There is a tremendous amount of pressure on the organization to win after last year’s debacle and next year’s move to a new ballpark, and the seam’s are now beginning to unravel. After sacrificing more homegrown talent to secure a mediocre starter, expect Willie to be the first to go, followed by Omar as a coda to 2008’s upcoming free fall. Last I checked, Kazmir is an All Star, Kaz is getting 15 million and Nady is a solid right fielder for the Pirates. We can now add Lastings, and in the not too distant future, Pelfrey, Gomez, Humber and Mulvey to the ’stars for others’ list.
1) the mets just got a left-handed version of nady with much better fielding
2) kaz matsui got SEVERELY overpaid as he SUCKS
In reply:
1. Trading Nady was a mistake. The Mets have suffered ever since for two simple reasons, a. no consistent production from the six/seven hole, and b. Perez is a flake who creates the false impression that the team has a solid No. 3 starter. If Nady was with the team, the Mets are in the WS two years running because they would have secured a better starter in place of Perez, trading Milledge if necessary.
2. Kaz suffered from a total lack of support from the Mets organization, NY media and fans. Last time I checked he was playing for Colorado in WS. The Cubs also offered 15 million, and next year he will outperform Castillo.
You must be crazy.
yes, Oh Pea was our ace this year, has matured leaps and bounds and will be a legit CY candidate for years to come (mark my words)…and X Nady is all of a sudden Ty Cobb? whatever. X Nady was replaceable. And if we want to blame anyone, blame the six degrees of Duaner Sanchez (that is meant to be ironic)
I’m sure you’re another one of the guys who think the Mets will be the worst team in the National League if we don’t get a starting pitcher via trade, so why are you complaining that we traded Xavier Nady when we got Oliver Perez in return? Some of the things I read on hear from you people are ridiculous.
Perhaps you were watching a different Perez in late September, but would I take Nady over Perez? Absolutely! Do you really believe other GM’s are interested in trading value for Perez? The Mets should have traded Milledge for a frontline pitcher when he had value, and not attempt to prove how much smarter they are than everyone by characterizing Perez as a No.1/2/3 pitcher. Perez is fine for the back end of the rotation, but no savvy GM is going to rely on him for the Top 3. As far as next year, I’d rank the Mets below Atlanta and Philly in talent, but with Willie managing, I’d say they’re a cinch for last place.
I bet that if Omar announced that Oliver Perez was on the block right now, you’d be surprised by what you’d be offered.
He is a LH power pitcher with nasty stuff.
If we had 2 Xavier Nady’s on our team, I’d trade them both for Perez.
Enjoy Omar’s Kool Aid all you want, but simple fact is Perez is a LH power pitcher with nasty stuff who pitched himself straight to the minors with Pittsburgh, and after this year’s meltdown, will have zero value come June.
this move seems to contradict all the things omar usually does
he usually gets young athletic players and i like that philosophy so when a bannister for burgos deal fails miserably i cut him slack b/c i believe in that philosophy
but getting rid of milledge for much older marginal players makes absolutely no sense and almost makes me think fred and jeff didn’t like lmillz’ freestyle skillz or something
Lastings is only 22 and still a prospect. Any attempt at rationaling this deal is an excercise in delusion.
Omar made the move as something he can fall back upon if he does not make a deal this off season.
horid.
I’m sure you’re not biased, LastingsMan
matt can we please get one of your polls up to see what people think of this horrendous move
I’d imagine 95% of fans are disgusted.
I think disgusted is a strong word for me. . .
Let’s just say I’m disappointed.
Disappointed in Lastings
Disappointed in Lastings value
Disappointed in Omar
But it happens. I doubt many of us are professional scouts or GMs that actually know the value of a player. It’s easy to second guess when we are sitting in front of our computers and typing away on this site while we are being disgusted by one of the other NY Sports teams. . .
It’s hard to give up on a 22 year old, but I remember back in 1996 that there was this kid that everybody just loved. He hit well in about 250 ABs that year. . Mets fans were salavating all over him thinking he was going to be the guy to carry us to some sort of greatness.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
That guy was Alex Ochoa. While I Lastings might be much better then him or the same or worse, but as they say potential can carry you only so far and for so long. Ochoa was 24 and given ample opportunity and never produced. Milledge is 22 and has been given pretty a similar opportunity – so who knows?
Back then we all though Ochoa was going to be great. Never happened. But the opposite can be said of a guy like John Maine. Everyone thought he was garbage, but he turned out to be a good starter. We just never know. Part of what baseball is, is a crapshoot.
i agree that we have no idea if milledge will actually work out or not but u still should have been able to get more for him and if u can’t and his value really fell that much (which i do not believe) since i think he was pretty decent in his time in the bigs then y trade him at all y not see if maybe he can actually do something, did we really need these 2 players that badly that we had to pack his bags today
Maybe they could have traded LMillz for Robby Alomar?
That’s being pretty ambitious. :D
Remember when Alex Escobar was the crown jewel of the Mets farm system?
On the flip side, who (besides George Steinbrenner, allegedly) thought David Ortiz would become the clutch hitting behemoth that he has been since being traded by the Twins?
Can someone tell me why the mets are not looking at the brewers for pitching, Prospects for Bush or I would have traded Milledge for Capuano. Maybe the JACKET can fix him in ten minutes.
couldn’t have said it better myself:
Milledge trade makes little sense
I know that Omar Minaya still plans to make more deals this winter, but the one he made Friday makes absolutely no sense. The Mets sent Lastings Milledge to the Nationals for catcher Brian Schneider and outfielder Ryan Church, and I’ve had trouble all afternoon wrapping my mind around it.
First of all, Milledge turns 23 in April. In 350 major league at-bats between last year and this year, he’s hit .257 with 11 homers and 51 RBI. In the 59 games he played for the Mets in 2007, Milledge hit .272 with seven homers, had a solid .341 on-base percentage (Carlos Beltran’s was .353) and .446 slugging percentage (Carlos Delgado’s was .448). Apparently, Milledge’s trade value had slipped, but isn’t the idea to buy low and sell high? If the Mets were so dead-set on trading Milledge, and this was all they could get for him right now, they should have waited until his value went up again with further improvement on the field.
And make no mistake, the return in this trade does represent what you have to call “all they could get for him right now.” Schneider is a good defensive catcher, but has never been much with the bat. He’s 31 and coming off a season in which he hit .235 with six homers and a .336 slugging percentage. Then there’s Church, who fits the sell high ideal as he comes off a career-high 470 at-bats in which he hit .272 with 15 homers and 70 RBI. Pretty similar to what you’d project Milledge’s line to be over a full season – but while Milledge is young and improving, Church is 29 and it’s hard to imagine that he’ll get any better at this point.
From a win-now standpoint, this might not look so bad. The greatest Mets optimist could say that Milledge-for-Church is a wash for 2008, and then you get Schneider thrown in. But the Mets just traded for Johnny Estrada, and now they have three catchers, remembering that they just gave Ramon Castro a two-year deal. Castro is slated to be the backup, and Schneider’s weak bat cancels out Estrada’s weak arm – I wouldn’t call either a better player than the other, but maybe give Estrada a slight edge since he’s a switch-hitter. Estrada is five months older, no big deal there.
So you’re back to looking at Milledge-for-Church, and while that may be a wash for 2008 (I don’t think it will be, as Milledge should continue to get better as he gains experience), the only way this makes any sense is if there’s already a team out there that’s told the Mets they will accept a package of Church and a couple of prospects for a pitcher as opposed to Milledge and a couple of prospects. But then, why not engineer it as a three-way trade?
Even if that is the case, and even if the Mets were sure that Milledge would never play a home game at their new park, they can be contenders with the rotation they have now, and could have waited until July to let Milledge boost his value and get a better deal. Instead, Minaya sold low on Milledge and bought high on Church, while also adding a redundancy behind the plate. Maybe it will set up his best deal if he can get another team to overrate Church, but for now it’s his worst as Mets GM and there was no reason for it to happen.
dwrightisgod….I just want to say, first of all I agree….secondly I agree and in closing I agree.
Oh, actually, one thing I disagree with is saying Johnny Estrada has a weak arm. In 2005 he threw out 31% of would be basestealers and 29% in 2006. According to all the reports I read Estrada had an elbow problem during 2007, which contributed to only throwing out 13% in 2007. Off season surgery should have corrected his elbow problem.
So, it’s actually worse than it appears, Estrada is astually a push defensively and much much better offensively.
much much better is a bit….much
the point all of you guys are missing is that, the Mets could not wait any longer, if they wait, they start the season with who in RF? Milledge? this is why they traded him, because they don’t think he can help this team win, so they had to trade him.
why is church such a better option than milledge?
milledges full season projects better than church
or how about endy chavez remember him
something more needs to happen. Either Church gets spun off in a bigger deal, or Omar sells high on Gomez. If Church stays, and improves a bit on his already decent numbers, they ccould be set for 2008, and either F Mart arrives in 2009 and/or they get a big stick as a FA or trade.
If Church is of more interest to the O’s, and Church/Humber/Heilmann/+? but not Pelfrey (or Mulvey instead of Humber) getsBedard, fine.
But, if Church goes, they need a real RF for 2008, since Gomez needs more seasoning.
Say they can do Gomez/Humber/Mulvey/Gotay? Something not Pelfrey.
They need to find a RH hitting OF/1B (bye bye Endy) to back up Delgado, and spell Church, and that would be OK. If F Mart comes along in 2009, he can platoon with Church.
If Church goes, then they need a FT RF (and darned if I know who it is!)
I would rather see a deal for say Snell (for Gomez + appropraite adjustments). Keep Heilmann and Pelfrey to use in 2008. Maybe Gomez + Humber (although I still think Humber will develop into a solid ML starter, at least as good as Blanton).
I still don’t know what to make of this deal, but let’s give Omar at least till Christmas before we finish roasting him.
Still, I feel this deal will be the second coming of Kazmir, and forget about ever seeing another Met prospect become a regular on this team until Omar gets canned (so there is hope for F Mart!)
what i love is all these people talking about milledge’s bad attitude, the high-fiving, the rap record…but i don’t see a lot of concern about Church’s borderline antisemitic comments. and church made those comments when he was 27.. five years older than milledge.. .this team sucks. there is really very little to like about this team
then stop being a fan. you can become a non-suffering red sox fan.
Keith Law can spin it how he wants, but there’s a non-baseball aspect to this trade that statheads will never acknowledge.
Lastings was never gonna play for Randolph or the Mets, not after the outbursts towards the end of the season, one in Florida and the HR dancing the final Saturday at Shea. Forget it.
They feel he’s a punk and a lot of other clubs must feel that way too. Maybe Washington sees something in him, maybe Acta can be a mentor. Plus he can play CF there, which he couldn’t with the Mets.
This trade is part of a purge. Look who’s gone this fall: Mota. Glavine. LoDuca. Now Milledge. These guys all played big roles in the Collapse.
I really liked Milledge when he came up thru the system. I really pulled for him to be a successful future met. But it started to become painfully obvious to me last year that this guy has a good chance of becoming another milton bradley. talented player who teams don’t want for other reasons. i think when he was dancing after his 2nd homer in the 2nd to last florida game and telling the press ’so what i gotta get mine. i haven’t played in 10 days.’ i think that pretty much was the end of his time in NY. I wish we could’ve gotten more for him. When I first heard the news today i was unhappy. But with that said. I watch lots of other teams play and I think Schneider is as good defensively as you’ll find in baseball. Church was the one I was shaky on but his stats were better last year than I thought they were. This trade may not be so bad. I just think we all heard Milledge in ever possible rumor the past two years that we all just expected him to go in a deal for a big name pitcher.
But I do have to admit, at this point in his career, Milledge is showing to be more like Bradley and less like Sheffield. It’s up to him now to prove the Mets and other teams wrong.
In fairness, if you look at the stats, Church is really a slightly better, left handed version of Xavier Nady with a glove. And he has great numbers at Shea.
When asked if he could help Church with his pedestrian .270 BA. Howard Johnson said “I can fix him in 10 minutes”
everyone. let’s just become red sox fans. .it’s a much better organization. this team is a joke and it treat its fan so badly. and of course they are going to jack up ticket up prices once they move into the new park no one will go.. so who is worse, the dolans or the wilpons?
you’re a joke and should go away. above, i very angrily suggested you should stop being a met fan and start rooting for the red sox. then, i scroll down to see you have made that very suggestion already. go away.
Funny someone mentioned Ochoa – I wrote this post prior to 07 about Milledge
http://metsfever.blogspot.com/search?q=must+or+bust
How depressing is it to watch SNY Sportsnight and after hearing all the BS on the Milledge trade, I have to hear “The Yankees are going all out for Johan Santana.
I was almost embarrased today to be a Mets fan. Within minutes of the news of the trade breaking I get 10 e-mails from Yankees fans basically laughing at the FO. WTF!?!
Thanks Omar! Your true colors are finally coming to light.
Where’s the fire Omar poll?
Right here!!!
Would you kick Omar Minaya’s ass out onto the streets of Queens???
Yes 99.9%
No 0.01% (Omar’s vote)
OK Rambo, this isn’t a movie.
Good read.
Just re-hashing all the Milledge stuff makes me more glad that he is gone. Never liked him, his attitude, his baggage or the idea that he felt he deserved to play without showing he deserved to play.
Well, I’ll be laughing when he’s a star. But I guess you’ll be happy cause he had a little too much ‘tude for you. This team is gonna become emotionless like the Yanks. Only we won’t win too much.
It’s time for purge. Willie, Omar and the scouts have gotta go. Oh, and if someone can think of a way to get rid of the Wilpsons let me know.
Can’t we just give the team to David Wright? I have a strange feeling he’d have us in a much better place.
Assassination??? Perhaps, blackmail them to sell the team to the other Steinbrenner??
The Mets will never win a Championship with Fred and Jeff Wilpon around.
he’s just an immature scrub
Yea, he’s 22 sure he’s immature. But there’s absolutely nothing about him that should make you think he’s a scrub.
reyes, wright and milledge promised some real life to this lineup… gomez will be nothing more than a bench player and who the hells knows about f-mart.. how many people here have ever seen him play. i bet he’s alex escobar….nothing more than footnote.. but by that time, omar will be out looking for another job.. as he should be
I see people are mentioning Alex Ochoa’s name…..what about Alex Escobar. He was another can’t miss prospect that panned out to be nothing. I was stunned as well today when i heard about this trade, especially since we didn’t get back rauch or cordero.
-However, I’m not that displeased with Church. He is a lefty-bat under control for the next 4 years. He did hit 43 doubles and 15 HR’s in RFK last year. He seemed to really heat up in September, especially against us hitting homers off righties, and an opposite field line drive double off Wagner.
— I watched a few of his Homers on mets.com, and he does have some serious power when he does hit HR’s.
“Schneider’s offensive production, while not eye-catching, is quite comparable to that of Lo Duca. Schneider has averaged 12.9 RBIs per 100 at-bats over the last three seasons. Lo Duca, playing his last two seasons with the Mets’ more productive batting order, averaged 11.4 RBIs per 100 at-bats from 2005-07. Schneider, likely to bat eighth for the Mets, hit 20 home runs in 1,187 at-bats the last three seasons, and Lo Duca hit 20 in 1,402 at-bats. Neither played his home games in a park conducive to home run hitting.”
schneider is also a much better defensive catcher.
I don’t doubt Millz upside and feel like he should eventually make this look like a steal for the Nats. But sometimes you have to give the extra weight to the ‘chemistry’ factor. If Omar and Willie feel like the general vibe or whatever will be much better without various guys (LM, PLD, etc…) then I’m willing to consider this factor into all offseason moves. Sure, this isn’t Mr Rodgers neighborhood and the team is not all gonna hold hands and sing songs all year, but if guys have proven to be a drag for whatever reasons…. see ya!!!
Let’s not forget how Milledges stock dropped before he was even drafted because of signability and character issues. It would seem his status never really got as high as the hype the local writers portrayed.
i have to admit, i always hoped that milledge would turn into the next mets all-star. but, i also always thought that it was a long shot. i mean, the kid looked totally and in all ways overmatched against righties. he didn’t seem to fit in with the players. he seemed way too in to himself. i’m not saying milledge should have been traded. i’m not even saying schneider and church are good players. but, it is what it is. obviously omar tried to get more for him. no one wanted to part with a better package. it is what it is. the lmillz era is over before it really got started.
after further review, I am a bit less upset. Church is actually a bit better than I thought, and (like Nady) could be very effective if benched against tough pitchers (lefties in his case). Good glove too. Actually, those 2 guys would be a sweet platoon!
This does, IMO (even more so after reading Omars comments) pretty much guarantee that Gomez is gone, unless they do nothing of consequence to upgrade the rotation
I hope the end result is Bedard for a package centered around the “high value” prospects, Gomez being the main piece, and Mulvey. Keep Pelfrey.
Gomez + Mulvey + ?? (no Guerra/F Mart or Pelfrey) for bedard.
Church can play RF. They will, however, need a RH hitting OF/1B to spell church and Delgado.
Nady would actually be the perfect guy for the job!
A rotation of Bedard, Pedro, Maine, Perez and El Duque/Pelfrey could be dominant. 3 guys that could win the Cy young in the next couple of years, and 1 that already has.
Alternative plan (and see Nady above) is a package with Pitt. Snell and Nady for Gomez and Mulvey? Something centered around that, and hope Snell blossoms into his potential.
Not quite as good as the above rotation, but Pedro, Maine, Perez., Snell and Duque/Pelfrey would still be solid, and only 1 old guy.
Reyes
Castillo (yuck, but we are stuck with him)
DW
Beltran
Alou
Delgado
Nady/Church
Schneider/Castro.
Bench: Nady/Church, Easley, Anderson, Castro/Schneider, Gotay.
I actually like this team. They are even covered with solid players if ALou or Delgado go down.
The 5th spot in the rotation is now solid, and the 6th is even legit now.
Just round out the pen with some live arms, and all set for the playoffs.
Omar, just spin Gomez into a viable starter (anywhere from 1-3) without gutting the farm, and be done with it.
Your absolutely right, that would be a pretty awesome RF platoon.
What if Omar got real creative, and found a way to get Snell and Nady without giving up Gomez (the Pirates don’t really need another young OF anyway, they need lineup thump and bullpen help), then spun Snell and Gomez for Bedard? Maybe Castro, Heilman, and Mulvey for Snell and Nady? Probably not enough.
I like the way you think. That would be the Omar that inspired the T shirts.
We really do have to give him time to finish building the team before passing judgement. Or at least until new years!
Snell though is pretty darned good. Might not be had to just stop there, and keep the rest of the chips (or trade them for other parts).
Not really sure the difference over the next few eyars between Snell and Bedard.
How about this thought: Maybe when Omar was talking to the O’s about Bedard they wanted Castro added in. Now the Mets can afford to lose Castro, at least until the non-tender deadline. Omar could offer his original package plus Castro for Bedard alone, and he could put pressure on the O’s by saying they have to make a decision by Dec. 12 or he’d need Hernandez back too.
Grasping at straws here? Yeah, I know….
anything is possible. Cstro or Estrada, either is fine for the right hand part of the platoon.
And you’d have all of Schneider’s defense and intangibles to balance out Estrada.
Still though, I think this is about as likely as the idea that the Mets interest in Eckstein wasn’t about second base at all….
::shudders::
still think it was a silly deal though. They could have made the same gomez+deal for a SP, and kept LM for RF, but I guess they figure CHurch is better bet in 2008, plus the C upgrade.
I can see the logic, but I still think Lastings will have some huge years, and soon.
But, this just might set the Mets up better to win it all in 2008, and doesn’t (assuming Church improves a bit as he gets more time) really hurt the future, assuming F Mart shows up as promised, and they get a big FA OF soon.
Fire Omar, Wilpons sell the team, dump Randolph by the side of the road, fire sale, rebuild.
This franchise is garbage
finally, the voice of all reason has weighed in.
Man, this fan base is going to be real ugly come opening day if Omar doesn’t add a solid to upper level SP to the rotation.
Although maybe the relatively small % of fans that post here constantly make it seem that the other millions of fans are about to riot too.
One thing this deal points out, as noted before, is that Omar is likely to make a move that was never rumored about, and basically comes out of left field.
So wasting tons of time fretting over proposed trades was probably a giant waste of band width.
Make a list of the 30 best SPs in MLB, and rank them in order of how likely the Mets are to get them, and Omar will probably snag someone way at the bottom of the likelihood list.
I really hope he is looking for that value guy (good now, primed to be great, but not a real household name yet.
SOmeone like Snell. Or Bedard, about 1-2 years back was just this guy. The Mets of course already have one in Maine.
Omar and the Mets upper brass have shown an incredible amount of disrespect to the Mets fan thus far in the offseason. After the monumental collapse that concluded the 2007 season, you’d think they’d be scurrying to put a better product out there next year and create some kind of buzz. Instead, we have to listen to that clown Omar tell us how great Ryan Church is and that he is an everyday outfielder caliber player. Are we stupid Omar? Then on top of that, the Mets PR machine has to tell us loud and clear that nobody wanted Milledge. Are we really that stupid PR machine? No one wanted a 5-tool, 22 year old prospect who may develop into a superstar one day? The kid has 350 career at-bats – he’s still dipping his toes in the water. It seems like a weak effort to justify a trade that is so illogical that it is comedic.
Somehow, I doubt that Billy Wagner will take issue with this particular roster move.
is everyone forgetting that we have sanchez and padilla coming back? we realized a need by gettin schnieder because he is a guy that can absolutely groom a young pitching staff, which if we don’t make any big moves, we are going to have with guys like pelfrey and even maine and ollie. we don’t need schnieder to come in and hit 30 home runs. we need him to play defense and turn over the lineup everyone now and again. i like this trade. i think church is as good of a player now as milledge is and he has been an everyday player in the bigs. will milledge be a better player down the road? probably. but we need to bounce back after a very dissapointing year and hopefully church will help us in that aspect. we still have upcoming prospects like martinez who will eventually fill the vacancies in our outfield.
but back to my original point. i dont feel that the bullpen is a HUGE focus yet b/c of the 2 guys coming back in sanchez and padilla. if these 2 can come back and produce close to what they did before than how is that any worse than gettin a guy like cordero or rauch? we got guys at home that can fill spots. i agree we need another starter but that’s what gomez and heilman are going to gain for us. now im just rambling but i really feel like the mets could have done a lot worse with this move. time to be positive and hope for a great season. we cant start acting like phillies fans and counting our team out before they even play. let the tearing up of my comments commence…..
In 25 AB at shea in 2007, Church hit .400 w 3 HR and 9 RBI. he likes to hit in Shea!
This sample is statistically insignificant.
In 45 ABs over the last 3 years Church has a 1.151 OPS at Shea. I don’t think a 25 AB sample is totally insignificant when looking at splits. A 45 AB sample size is even more legitimate. Having said that, it’s doubtful he will have a 1.151 OPS playing 81 games at Shea in 2008. But I think it’s safe to at least say he hits very comfortably there.
Omar can’t win. Obviously no one wanted Milledge because GM’s have decided this guy’s not that great. If Omar holds onto him, he gets hammered for not doing anything. If he trades him, as he just did, he gets hammered anyway.
I was never big on Milledge. Yea, it would have been nice to get some pitching back but obviously no one wanted him.
Daily News reports that the Mets offered Heilman, Humber and Milledge for Bedard. Had they substituted Church or Gomez for Milledge it would be more palatable to the O’s
He could have hung onto Milledge, traded others for pitching and the fans would have been happy. No one is yet judging Omar on this deal but his recent track record does not bode well; the early returns from his recent trades of young Met talents such as Bannister, Lindstrom and Bell have not been good.
Part of the problem with those deals is that Omar got so little back in return for them. But in the case of Milledge, he at least got back two solid players who have already done it on the major league level.
I still feel this is the beginning of a major trade. I did some searching yesterday and found:
- The Padres are trying to sign Peavy to an extension but may not be able to afford it.
- MLBTraderumors.com back on the 15th reported the Padres were interested in Church for CF to replace Cameron.
Now perhaps the thought is – Church, Pelfrey and Heilman, maybe another prospect, Mulvey? Humber? Gotay? for Peavy and maybe Thatcher or another bullpen guy (Bell?)
Then maybe sign Livan or Colon for the #5 spot.
Omar works from left field often, pulling rabbits out of hats. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s building something like this. What does that mean for RF? Either a splash like Fukudome to keep the headlines post trade or an upside player like Wilkerson or a role player vet like Jenkins or Stewart should be fine.
Oh, I wouldn’t be against signing Mackowiak either, if we can get him cheap, as a super sub for the creaky OF and 1B.
Peavy
Pedro
Maine
Perez
El Duque / Humber / Mulvey / Livan / Colon????
Reyes
Castillo
Wright
BelTRON
Alou
Delgado
Fukudome / Wilkerson / Stewart / Jenkins
Schnieder / Castro
Agreed — I just replied way up saing the same thing…
Daily News today:
Milledge, 22, reportedly was offered with Aaron Heilman and Phillip Humber to the Orioles in a proposal that was rejected. Including Milledge did not make it more desirable to Baltimore, but one baseball official said, “You put Church or Gomez in place of Milledge in an offer and it might be a more attractive offer.”
I think, amaziingly, Church is worth more on the open market to teams needing a CFer for 08 than Lastings. So, fingers crossed we lose Church in a package, keep Scneider (I like him), then address RF after. I’d even sign a Guillen for a year and have Gomez, then F-Mart behind him and Alou for ‘09.
Our defense up the middle is insanely good.
I’m luke warm on trading LMillz. I don’t see him becoming an allstar type player and this is one instance where we lost….we should have traded him while he was a very hot commodity. I just wish we had gotten some pitching for him….even if it was a # 2 starter.
Omar is definitely in the hotseat. Out of out prospects, I would like to see Mulvey and Martinez stay. Gomez is a gonner as well as Humber and Pelfry…but for who?
Ic lorazepam buspar…
Lorazepam manic depression medication. Lorazepam ativan pharmacology healthyplace com. No prescription lorazepam. Gg 92 lorazepam…
Celebrities….
Celebrities nude pictures. Celebrities naked. Celebrities pictures. Where can i see pictures of celebrities. Nude celebrities….
3d poker….
3d poker games….
I wouldn’t call him an anti-semite…