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During an interview with WFAN yesterday, Mets GM Omar Minaya said he talked to the ‘Orioles and A’s,’ among other teams, before trading Lastings Milledge.
…so, this should confirm his interest in at least Erik Bedard and Dan Haren or Joe Blanton…also, i’m glad to know that trading milledge will not hamper omar’s ability to make a trade for a pitcher…if he’s hampered, it’s because the rest of the team’s prospects are not as good as other team’s prospects, with or without milledge…
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Has anyone seen Metsblog’s away message? It’s hilarious, it’s
“Lastings Kazmir”
priceless…
anyway, i support the trade but that is still funny
What does this mean? Matt, e-mail me and explain, please. I am having issues with that IM account.
since when was their an AIM account?
please get bedard…somehow
Getting an ace will sooth this fan base. Especially if it includes Church or Schneider. However, we now know that we are getting weak in RF regardless. If Church is dealt, Gomez has the job. If Gomez is dealt, its Churchs job. THat is a bit unsettling in and of itself.
And on another note….. Omar seems to be trying to take credit for “thinking outside the box” and how wrong the fan base can be on stuff like this. He cites the Benson for Julio and Maine trade.
in a vacuum maybe. But the issue we fans had with that trade was not that Benson was traded and we only got back Julio and a failed prospect (Pelfrye like).
THE ISSUE WE HAD WAS THE TRADE WAS DONE WITHIN DAYS OF DUMPING SEO FOR DIRTY SANCHEZ.
We are all stunned at how we could trade 2 starters within a week when we really only needed one gone. Then later in the season when we had trotted out crap as the 5th starter….OMAR BAILED HIMSELF OUT AND ADMITTED HIS MISTAKE AND TRADED FOR DUQUE with Julio.
He corrected it but it was a mistake nonetheless. No amount progress that Maine makes or success he has will change my mind on that.
OMAR YOU ARE NOT FOOLING US ON THIS. IF YOU TRADE CHURCH FOR BEDARD OR HAREN OR SANTANA, WE WILL FORGET THIS PRECURSOR TRADE. IF YOU DON’T GET THE ACE AND WE HAVE TO GO TO WAR WITH THIS TEAM…..WE WILL BE PRETTY ANNOYED AND YOU WILL BE OUT OF JOB WITHIN 6 MONTHS
If Church is dealt, Gomez has the job. If Gomez is dealt, its Churchs job. THat is a bit unsettling in and of itself.
I can see the Mets being weaker in RF with Gomez, but how can you say the same about Church? He is a better defensive OFer than Milledge (at least at the moment).
Other than that I agree with your post. I was a bit irked by Omar’s spin on the Benson deal. But at any rate, I’m willing to wait and see what he does in Nashville.
I don’t see the problem with Church.
The ceiling of Milledge full season was .300/20/80, according to most scouts.
Church, based on his career so far (1000 AB) is averaging per 550 AB (full season) is .271/19/84.
And it’s no guarantee that Milledge hits his ceiling.
because some fans think of him as some uber player with websites developed around him and lists created for him.
I would bet anything that Church out-preforms Milledge this year.
even if we didnt trade milledge because of his value dropppings i think he if worth more to the mets than any other team i expect milledge to have a better season than church and shnieder put together….hes also cheaper and younger and eventually will have more value. With some more time there… milledge will be better defensivly in right than church.
I agree.
At the least, I dont understand why Omar didnt wait for the GM meetings next week? Was he afraid of a run on Church or Schneider?
Best hope is that Omar has the pieces together now to make a bigger deal for a starter.
I understand Omar may have checked with the A’s and O’s, but how could you not bring back a pitcher from another team for Milledge? I heard Ken Rosenthal on SNY last night and then on WFAN this morning and he claimed that one GM he spoke with was shocked that the Mets traded Milledge and got no pitching back in return! Rosenthal went on to say that another GM he spoke with claimed he would have given up pitching to get Milledge and that a lot of people in baseball were still high on him. Of course Rosenthal couldn’t offer specific names of pitchers the Mets may have been able to acquire for Milledge, but he definitely put it out there.
The point is that there are no pitchers Omar is really interested in via trade except the bona fide #1s. Lesser quantities can be acquired via free agency. So, until we hear what “pitching” could have been available for Milledge, it’s hard to know what we really lost out on.
I agree that it’s disappointing to get so little for Milledge, but I find it hard to assess what we coulda/shoulda/woulda gotten for him without knowing what was really out there.
Uh, it’s easy to criticize when you won’t identify any names. I’d like to know what pitchers Milledge could have returned. I don’t think even KC would give up Bannister for Milledge as pitching is the hardest commodity to develop and acquire. And at one point, Milledge had immensely more value than Bannister. This is an indication that Milledge’s value had fallen and also of how much Bannister’s value has risen. Still Bannister only has 1 year under his belt.
I dont trust much of what Rosenthal says when talking abouot the Mets. He rarely ever praises them. Keith Law on ESPN.com said while he believes the deal was bad, he also thinks that any idea that nobody wants any of the Mets prospects in a deal for Santana or Haren is absurd.
Rosenthal said the Mets could put all their top prospects into a trade offer yet still nobody is interested. I find that hard to believe.
Rosenthal went on to say that another GM he spoke with claimed he would have given up pitching to get Milledge and that a lot of people in baseball were still high on him.
I heard him say that on SNY last night and my first thought was, “Well sure, Omar could have gotten *a* pitcher for Milledge; he could get *a* pitcher for pretty much anyone on the team.”
The question is, would it have been a good pitcher, or at least a pitcher the Mets need?
I thought if no one else liked Milledge then the Mets could just keep him to play RF (with Johnson and/or Endy, at least). I thought Omar’s plan was to have this extraordinarily athletic OF for the foreseeable future. Alou doesnt fit this bill, good as he hits.
I just hope the Mets dont panic in reaction to last year’s collapse. These prospects’ fortunes could rise as quickly as they fell. I will be bummed if they deal Pelfrey for the pitching version of Ryan Church, ie, someone who is ok but wont markedly enhance the team’s chances to win a WS.
I’d love to see that great “list” of pitchers
Rosenthal is a clown
Sung in my best Smokey Robinson voice…
“I second that emotion.”
Anyone notice that Buster Olney talking about how Washington is expected to make additional moves, including trading Chad Cordero… I would have been behind this trade if they could have added a piece to the bullpen be it Cordero or Rausch, but this deal they ended up with is pretty pathetic
It’s just funny that people think Omar could have gotten more from around the league for Milledge….obv. not, bc he would have done those deals.
How you trust blindly is sad. No thought that Omar simply overvalues the players he acquired with the Expos?
A’s didn’t want Milledge for Haren or Blanton, O’s didn’t want him for Bedard
Garland fetched a proven, GG SS
Let me ask you, who would YOU have tried to trade Milledge for, pitching-wise?
I wouldn’t have traded Milledge this offseason when at his lowest value. However, if I was forced to, I would trade him for a reliever who would have filled a hole this team actually had. Not for a 3rd catcher who can’t hit and a decent outfielder, of which this team has plenty.
Which reliever? You know of one that was available for Milledge?
You do know that Schnieder is a starter and has more RBI’s per 100 AB’s over the last three years than Paul Lo Duca, right? And that he plays much better defense?
The name that gets bounced around a lot is Brad Lidge. But I’m not sure that’s fair. Omar almost certainly could have gotten him for Milledge as the Astros wound up dealing him for Michael Bourn. But that deal was made very early in the offseason, at a time when Omar was probably hoping to use Milledge to get a starter. By the time Omar was ready to accept less, Lidge was gone.
Could Omar have gotten Rausch instead of Church? Probably – but then you’re moving Millegde & considering moving Gomez for a starter which could leave you with a big hole in RF.
Personally, I would have hung onto Milledge. I think we sold too low. But I’m not sure we could have gotten much more. I just think his value had become so low we might have been better off hanging on and moving him – if necessary – in June.
i think we could have gotten rauch in addition, and minaya pulled the trigger too soon. actually, here’s what happened: http://trackpower.blogspot.com
so if Omar traded Milledge for Antonio Alfonseca, you’d be much happier with the deal?
I have to admit that, listening to Omar on WFAN yesterday, I was not encouraged. He really sounded beleaguered. His statement that he talked to other teams and was assured that his ability to make a deal for a Haren or somebody would not be compromised by trading Milledge elsewhere did not make me feel that such a deal was actually likely to ever happen. On the other hand, I’m willing to wait and see what happens. I just think that Omar is under gargantuan pressure right now — caught between the fans’ (and Jeff Wilpon’s) insistence on “win now” and the fact that our trading chips will only go so far.
Omar is going to make a lot of dumb moves now. He’s under pressure to win this year and theres nobody available. We don’t have the chips to get an ace in here, and theres nothing in the FA market. So Omar feels he couldnt wait for milledge and then traded for Church and Schneider.
I think Omar knows he will not be able to bring the big pitcher in here. Personally, I don’t think Omar should be fired even if we don’t make the playoffs this year. We should’ve underwent a year of re-tooling. Draft better by going overslot for top talent, make splashes in international signings, and let Milledge play everyday and give Gomez and martinez some more development time. Have Pelfrey and Humber start in the fifth spot. Then, move into the new stadium with some new money (Delgado, Alou) and plug things in from there.
The Mets window has closed unless everyone is healthy. I’m not willing to bet that are you guys?
“Omar is going to make a lot of dumb moves now.”
sorry my friend, he has already done it, giving castillo 4 years, lucked out on giving torrealba a 3 year deal. trading milledge for bums from the nationals. the panic has already started.
But trading Mota for Estrada was terrible?
Or two low level prospects for Castillo?
so that one move means that omar is having a good off-season?
stop drinking the kool-aid man.
and this move means our offseason has been a complete failure and we’re doomed, even though the season doesn’t start for another 3 months??
stop drinking the haterade, bro.
He, as well as many GM’s, haven’t really done anything!
Jeez.
what exactly have you seen this off-season that would make you believe he has more moves up his sleeve?
tell me. because i’m looking. if he spins church+ into bedard, i will stand corrected, but he has a hard-on for gomez and he will not trade him. so yeah, so far, it has been a failure of an off-season
and deaner, there are GM’s making moves. good moves i might add.
angels, a playoff team, are making moves, braves and phillies have made moves, hell, even tampa bay is making moves.
so don’t give me that “no gm’s are making moves” non-sense.
and what brilliant move would you have made to bring in a 2b even better than Castillo? They got Castillo for 4 years at 3 year money. Why do people even harp on that contract. it’s a non-issue.
Did I say “no” GM’s, no, I said MANY GM’s
Jeez.
They traded an AS, GG SS for an avg. pitcher in Garland and signed a 32 YO OF, which they have a glut of, to a 5 year 90 million dollar deal. Not exactly making great moves there.
The Rangers and WS lost out on Hunter and the WS overpaid dearly for an aging middle reliever.
The Sillies got a reliever who is a head case.
There have been no moves where I thought, “Damn, that was a great move”
still better than what the mets have done
Lol, okay guy. Whatever.
its not whatever. how can u actually justify what he has done this off-season? he traded a young talent away for 1/4 of a last place teams awful line-up. schneider wasn’t even going to start for the nats. and church wasn’t even a full time player. he is panicking
Carlos Gomez? Does anyone think he’s a stud?
Charlie, Gomez has potential. More potential than Milledge. But thats all it is right now.
the reason i ask is it seems a foregone conclusion that he would have to be included in any deal for a pitcher. the question is, in two years from now, if omar doesn’t move him, will he move him for an anti-semite and a poor-hitting catcher?
calling Church an anti-semite is actually a more ignorant comment than what Church himself said and apologized for.
don, perhaps you are not jewish? what he said is tremendously offensive and not something i’m going to let go just because he apologized. if you want to call me ignorant, fine. thinking jewish people are going to go to hell because we don’t “believe” in jesus is anti-semitic and ignorant. if you don’t think so, maybe it’s you who are ignorant. (and, offensive, to me).
I don’t think Church STATED that about Jewish people, but inquired of the Team Chaplain if it were so (as if there is any authority on this?)? Sounds like a person who is inquiring of something he has probably heard preached from the pulpit for his whole life. The good news is that he found an answer to his question. The bad news is that it got played out in the media.
Charlie, you need to develop thicker skin.
Church’s comments were obviously blown out of proportion. Did you even investigate the episode, or was this just too good of a story for you to use in your stupid “I Want to Kill Omar Minaya for Trading Milledge” campaign?
Would you like me to start quoting bible passages? Church said nothing that every single Catholic person has not been taught since grade school.
Don’t agree? Fine. But get off your damn “Oh, I’m so offended” high horse.
Don’t even suggest that your faith or belief holds more weight than anyone else’s. Your POV shows why you are not Catholic, not that you are right.
i can see why some are questioning this deal, but to go off like they have is assinine. its hardly a world changing event. it wasnt even that long ago that the majority on this board would have shipped out milledge for a bag of chips. the same can be said for heilman. if omar listened to these know it all fans vic diaz would be the starting rf’er, and the likes of petit and benson would be throwin to that super prospect shoppach, who cost us 2 major leaguers to get, and anderson hernandez would be settin the world on fire at 2nd base. but then again, youll never catch all these know it all bridge jumpers to ever admit they were wrong so many times before.
dude, the issues is that the mets messed it up. they thought milledge would be special and he turned out to be not worth much. had they moved him earlier, who knows what the mets would have had. it shakes the confidence in the team when they miss this badly, again. don’t sit there and look down on people for being a bit upset that THE “untouchable” lastings milledge turned out to be garbage.
you misunderstand. i am pointing out that the majority of whiners would never have traded milledge when he was just a fresh prospect. those same people would have traded him for nothing after his 1st cup of coffee. and now those same people cry when hes dealt for something other than an ace. the people who go off tilt over stuff like this are the same ones who would have said something completely different last year and the year before that. they are the same ones who whined about cameron beating out diaz, the same ones who complained about ahern not bein the starting 2nd baseman, the same ones who complained about signing endy and trading seo. but if they whine about that crap, then they should at least come forth and admit they are wrong about a lot of stuff instead of just playin the self rightous card now. and to even say the mets screwed up with milledges value is nuts. every team in baseball has had more prospects fail than make it to their potential. and every team has sat on some and lost, or traded others who exceded the projections. its always a gamble.
When would anyone have traded Milledge or Heilman for nothing?
I have no problem being wrong. Baseball is a hobby. I make calls based on what I see, and form an opinion.
I would hope the Mets have a little better scouting than me. I would hope they could see which prospects are worth keeping, and trade the ones that aren’t at their highest value.
This trade just epitomizes the entire organization -a lack of focus, or intellect, in dealing with the minors. Is it too much to ask for a scouting department that can evaluate its players and maximize their potential?
The Red Sox traded Hanley Ramierez. Sound bad? Yeah, excpet they got back a guy who is the reason they just one a World Series.
I’ll admit I’ve been wrong many times. Maybe I’m wrong here. But in hindsight, most of the moves made by the Mets regarding prospects over the past have been terrible. Thus, I question the stregnth of their scouting and baseball operations departments.
Its a sad trade. Everyone has been throwing quotes and opions out and who knows which is the real truth. The one thing I’m sure of is that we will never the true reason Mills was traded.
On XM MLB last evening, the Ass’t GM, Riccio(sp?), said basically that the basis of this trade has been in the works since July ‘07. Now that contradicts many “reports” and even some quipes I heard from Omar. If trade value was the reason then at which point did Mills really start to lose it? We’re talking about Nov. of ‘06 he was wanted by Beane and then suddenly July ‘07 his trade value began to decline…only nine months later. Odd?
Personally, I don’t think it was a horrible trade, bad trade or even a good trade. I’m indifferent only because its hard to really figure out what sort of talent a prospect will become. Though I would have liked to see Mills get 400 to 500 ABs w/the Mets so we can see what would have. But I’m not heart broken either. Church and Schneider are fine players not sexy types which I think adds to the sting. This trade does not make or break this team in 08 or even in the future.
Every GM is a trained liar. You can’t say anything in public, or the deal will never get done. So maybe it was in the works last summer. we’ll never know for sure.
Stop the whining already! This team is as good as last year’s team. The only reason we sat home in October is because of poor bullpen management, and the inability of a certain webmaster favorite to execute a double switch and a suicide squeeze!
Get a guy to replace Glavine’s innings (Silva would do the trick) and we’ll be in it. Keep Pelfrey Humber Mulvey Gomez & FMArt until July and get the best pitcher available to help down the stretch.
boy oh boy. considering the authoritative tone of your post, you would figure you knew what you were talking about. the bullpen wasn’t mismanaged, the starting pitching was horrible. the pen was in the game in the fifth inning most games and, consequently, pen broke down.
When a guy like Mota struggles in previous appearances, and gives you a good inning, why send him out for a second inning? Willie did this a lot. He could have used some performances as confidence boosters and chose to set his player up to fail.
not that your totally wrong, but is it really better to use another pen on arm those days, and actually tiring more arms in the process, than just asking a guy whos supposed to be able to go 2 innings to do his job?
the starters stunk and the pen was mismanaged. if anyone doesn’t think the pen was mismanaged all you have to do is watch the infamous game down in florida where sosa was in there trying to close it and feliciano was taken out after 1 batter.
there are very few 2 inning pen guys in the game. Mota was def not one of them.
The pitching staff was out early every game because Willie kept pulling his starters early! His obsession with pulling pitchers when they hit the century mark was crazy.
here we go arguing over silly stuff. here’s what we should be focusing on:
the team wasn’t that good last year. not the hitting, not the starting pitching, not the relief pitching, not the fielding, not the baserunning, not the coaching, not the managing, and not the GMing. the whole thing was mediocre at best. this is why it’s so important to actually IMPROVE the team. if trading milledge for these two journeyman-type players was the best omar could do, then that’s sad. the team needs everything to improve and it gets scheider and church? not impressive. not at all.
anyone sitting back and saying, “well that’s what the market said milledge was worth,” then i say why not just hold on to the guy and see if he actually matures into a better player. schneider and church are garbage. GARBAGE.
“schneider and church are garbage. GARBAGE.”
Thats so not true.
Most objective people I’ve asked (as in non-met and non-nats fans) think the mets did pretty well.
Church is a solid player and Schneider is one of the best defensive catchers in the league. Can you just imagine what it will be like to actually have faith that a runner will get thrown out at second?
This team is as good as last year’s team
And that doesn’t scare you?
Would it be completely unprecedented for Church to go out now and become a dynamic offensive player?
Maybe Omar knows something that the rest of us don’t.
It’s happened before. Maybe with the added protection Church will get in this lineup he’ll go out and become a 285/25/100 guy with 50 doubles and good defense in right.
Any takers?
right here.
i wonder if church will be flipped in a deal for a pitcher. i don’t see him blowing up offensively.
nady was a bum when we got him too, if you listen to the nay sayers. so were maine and perez. im thinkin church will surprise them all, at which time all the nay sayers will promptly stand up and say they knew it all along.
nady wasn’t a bum.
according to the majority on this site and others he was a bum when they traded cameron for him. im just sayin the same could be true of church. i liked nady from the time they got him and thought it was a good deal.
Gotta agree- I really see Church as the same type of player that Nady was for us.
While those numbers may be a slight stretch, the guy rakes against RHP’s. Seeing some pitches batting 7th behind Moises should be helpful. Not to mention Shea if a very favorbale park for LH’s as opposed to RH’s. Church’s OPS+ numbers have been as good as Rowand’s, Jones, Byrnes and I believe even Hunter’s over the past 2-3 years. Guys who will make 10-12 million next year. Getting him 450 AB’s as the main part of a platoon against righties and this guy will produce for us next year.
What do you guys think of this trade 3 days ago.. HEAR ME OUT!
Mets: Haren and Blanton
A’s: Maine, Pelfrey or Heilman, Estrada, Milledge
now go to the twins
Twins: O.Perez (They get back a lefty), C. Gomez, Humber, and Mulvey
Mets: Santana
Now for our RF situation go out and get Aaron Rowand…and resign Paul Lo Duca
Now you have a Starting Rotation consisting of Santana, Haren, Pedro, Blanton, El Duque or Silva
and your Starting line up …
Jose Reyes
Luis Castillo
Beltran
Delgado
Wright
Alou
Rowand
Lo Duca
Pitcher
pass the peace pipe, amigo!
change your nickname, my man. you probably should also work toward a different career goal.
Sounds like my kid playing “MLB 2K7″ He likes those types of deals.
I don’t think of Ryan Church as an anti-semite. He asked a legitimate question to a pastor. The pastor’s answer is really what is in question.
I can see Church hitting .290/22/90 from the 7 spot. A good LH compliment to Alou in RF
anyone that asks a question like that legimately clearly has an extremely low view of jewish people. think about it.
It sounded like someone asking if something he was taught all his life is true.
Stumped1, you are right. Omar is doing a good job. I’ts easy to second guess.
What about trading for A.J Burnett? I think the Mets can still get him with some young talent especially with a speedster like Gomez. The Jays are stacked with pitching so they can use somebody who can steal bases and I think Gomez can be that guy. Along with a Pelfrey or Humber.
Burnett is an injury risk but if he can remain healthy, I think he can be a potent force in the Mets starting rotation.
Burnett has an opt out clause in his contract, so if you go get him and give up a lot for him, you run the risk of him taking off if he has a good year.
That might be a good deal. He was injured in July, but finished pretty strong. I’d do it.
Mets are already better than last year.
this deal improves our defense. LoDuca was crumbling before our eyes. Brain can throw and field and he and Castro make for a solid platoon. Church is a better fielder and clearly a better hitter vs RH ( 70% of the league) pitching than Milledge.
287 .360 .506 .866 Church
AVG OBP SLG OPS
.250 .309 . 395 .704 Milz
Offer Gomez , Pelfrey and Heilman to the Orioles for Bedard.
If they say no make the same offer and add Humber for Haren.
I want to keep FMart and Mulvey.
.
Look, its always a risk when you trade a young player because you don’t know what his ceiling is, but realistically what kind of player do you think Milledge will be? He has never shown the ability to hit for 30 HR’s, doesn’t steal bases, his defense is not top notch despite a good arm. He’s not going to be a high average guy. So estimating a best year for him would be what .280 22 HR’s 100 RBI’s on a good hitting club??
There will always be outfielders who can put up those kind of numbers out there. Jose Guillen puts those up every year and you can have him right now if you want. I don’t think he’s going to be a superstar, he doesn’t have all those tools.
You really think Omar didn’t do his work to find out if he could get a picture?? Come on, Ken Rosenthal says they could have gotten a pitcher for him? Give me a break, so he found the one GM Omar didn’t find?? And don’t you think there is a reason he didn’t say what kind of pitcher this was? He wasn’t going to give a name and out his GM source but is this guy a back end or front end pitcher.
On a side not I do have some concern with Ryan Church’s anti-semetic comments will take once he gets here. Those were some pretty rough comments to say the least. I’m jewish and a big Mets fan and I’m not sure how to take it
“The Mets believe a 2005 incident involving Church, 29, and anti-Semitic comments attributed to him won’t be an issue with his new team. In a discussion with a team chaplain, Church asked if Jewish people are “doomed” because they don’t believe in Jesus. He then added, “I was like, man, if they only knew. Other religions don’t know any better. It’s up to us to spread the word.”
So estimating a best year for him would be what .280 22 HR’s 100 RBI’s on a good hitting club??
lastings was basically on pace to get those #’s in his under 200 ab’s last year at the old age of 22
remember when reyes’ value plummeted i wish we had shipped him off for 2 average to below average players
does anyone else agree that we should go after bedard and andrew jones? would not be too bad of a lineup
Reyes
Castillo
Beltran
Wright
Alou
Delgado
Jones
Schenider
Bedard
Maine
Perez
Pedro
EL doque
no to andrew jones…
he is a slacker… we dont need that negative attitude on this team. Plus he is a CF
can’t agree more. no jones, please. in fact, nothing but arms, please. IT’S THE PITCHING STUPID!
Charlie,
Sorry, just one of a thousand GM’s on the board.
Why I think the bullpen was mismanaged. I hated seeing certain pitchers go out a second inning. Sometimes a guy would be struggling, throw a 1-2-3, and willie would trot him out for a 2nd inning. You can guess the outcome.
I’m an advocate of Willie proofing the team. Get players who take the guess work out of managing. You need starters who are economical (a la David Wells in his prime) and get through 7 IP in 100 pitches or less. You need guys who don’t need to be mentored. Willie will get along far better with Ryan Church than Lastings Milledge in this regard.
I really can’t argue with what you say here. I just can’t see the team really improving unless it gets a frontline starter.
this is an awful, uninspiring ball club. i see this team being no better than 83 wins.
watch alou miss 100 games. gomez start sniffing the grass.. endy playdown to the bench player he is., castillios knees blowout
omar sucks. the wilpons sucks and the fact that everyone is willing to overlook church’s antisemitic line of thought is disgraceful. but wait, milledge is a bad guy b/c he has fun playing the game.
absurd. this team should be in kansas city.
“Milledge, performing on souljaboirecords.com, raps about “rich (N word),” “wealthy (N word),” a “top-notch ho” and having “a different bitch for every night” on the sexually explicit song “Bend Ya Knees.”"
This is less offensive than Ryan Church having questions about salvation?
yeah. it is. first of all, church was five years older than milledge when he made those comments. and church’s comment were basically saying if you don’t believe what i do than you’re damned. real openminded.
I respect your opinion, but I disagree.
read the whole story before you crucify the guy, or youre as bad as you perceive him to be.
Tidbits…
The incident happened 2.5 years ago.
Church apologized.
Has Lastings?
Didn’t he apologize? Does that count for anything? If you don’t like what we have on our team right now what team has a better hand in the NL? After last season when every team struggled mightily and the Rockies of all teams won the pennant how can you say our team sucks? I really don’t get some of these posts some times, the incredible pessimism. It’s like Mets fans are mainc-depressives, either we’re suffering from euphoria (Mota for Estrada–nice, but so what) or we’re one step from tossing ourselves off the nearest bridge. It’s a nice day, get some fresh air and relax a bit. The trades will come; let’s wait to judge fully. It may be that Church will never put on a Mets uniform; who knaows?
LTSMF, didn’t you turn in your blue and orange for red sox red yesterday?
one more thing. i was no fan of loduca. i called him a punk and wanted him gone. but not b/c he had a personality. i just thought he sucked at calling a game and had an inflated ego but all these moves show is that the Wilpons (omar, willie et al) are more concerned about image and having bland players. i think d. wright is great. and don’t want to trade him. but let’s be honest the guy is pretty whitebread and conservative to boot…allowing his name to be used in some ad for a christian fundamentalist group a while back.
beltran is a zero when it comes to personality. delgado is making jokes while the mets can’t win in the last month. reyes has a personality and if he wasn’t reyes, he’d be gone too.
this team is bland, colorless and gives you little to root for. what a far cry from the 80s mets..
allowing his name to be used in some ad for a christian fundamentalist group
Shame on you to bring that up. Wright was clearly bamboozled into doing that quick promo for that group. The Mets and Wright apologized and made that group take that promo off the air. AFAIK, this was no reflection on Wright’s personal beliefs.
And for all that personality that you ascribe to Lo Duca, it did him or the team little good down the stretch when the pitching staff stunk to high heaven. The only two gems pitched by the starters during that stretch (one by Ollie and one by Maine) were caught by Castro.
Maybe Lo Duca gets so distracted by off field issues like contract extensions and what Page Six is saying about him that he brings it with him on the field and can’t think straight when it comes to calling a game.
Oh yeah…the 80s Mets. Swaggering winners. But also coke heads and alleged rapists. Nice bunch.
I like both the swagger and quirkiness of the colorful 80s mets as well as the more quiet professionalism of the so-called bland current crop. I like Straw as well as Beltran. Personality is NOT the key to winning. Drive and focus is. And you can have the drive to succeed whether you’re a wild partying type or a bookish nerd.
Just look at the Red Sox. In 2004 they were the wild offbeat crazy bunch and they won. In 2007 they were the quieter more bland bunch and they won. Talent, drive and focus is key. Not personality.
for what it’s worth, the 80s mets set me up for some of the most disappointing baseball seasons of my life.
I never said Milledge rap album was good and I approved of it. But does that make getting a guy who says that every religion that doesn’t believe in Jesus is “doomed” is the way to in return? That’s a nice spin, saying he questions salvation that’s what he meant. When he meant if you don’t believe what I believe you are going to hell and your religion is wrong and immoral. Nice job Agees.
The article clearly states that he was concerned over the salvation of his girlfriend. I’m not trying to spin it. I’m comfortable enough in my own faith not to get bent about this
Funny, Cerrone posts the same brain numbing post over and over and all we do is come in and bemoan the Millings trade. Having envisioned the young athletic outfield someone else talked about whether it be Gomez and Millz with Beltran or FMart and Gomez is a vision that will never happen. Omar will trade away all the young players, and I am not convinced any of them will be any good, along with young pitchers to get older and slower. Second rate corner OFers are going to be the staple of this franchise. I have no doubts Abreu will be playing left for the Mets after his contract is uo with the Yankees. The Mets are starting to remind me (ever so slowly) of the Knicks. Players it is impossible to root for.
Omar almost= Isaiah.
Matt-
I listened to that interview. He never said the A’s or the O’s specifically. He simply said he has spoken to those teams that have made pitchers that they are targeting available and they said Lastings is not a big deal to them. He can’t specifically mention teams or players. It is against MLB policy
Dwrightisgod, so in under 183 AB’s lastings projected to have big numbers, so yeah that’s definately what he was going to produce for his career is that what you are saying? I was estimating what in my opinion his numbers would reasonably look like as a regular player. I don’t think he’s ever putting up 300 30 120 etc…and with little speed and average defense, he’s not going to be an elite outfielder.
So if that’s the case, and you can disagree but I think most baseball people would side with me, I don’t think he’s a guy you can’t replace. There are always outfielders and the Mets do have 2 in the minors who project better than him. He’s not a guy who you are going to look at down the road and think, “its hard to find a guy who puts up Lastings Milledge numbers” on the free agent market or in our farm system
how can you say that? if at 22 he projected to hit 275 20 and 90 then why do u sound so sure that at 28 he will not be older stronger and hitting 300 and 30 hrs
i mean i think its a deal we had to make b/c a lot of people wanted church so we had to overpay know what i’m saying?
and i never question omars moves in the past b/c he had made some good moves but this is an absolutely brutal deal
I keep going back and forth on the Milledge deal. I’m not sure it’s as awful as everyone is making it out to be, but it’s certainly not a great deal-and they definitely need to bolster the pitching.
I saw another Metsblog writer (Mazzone) put his opinion up on the trade at his own blog http://perfectseason.blogspot.com/
I don’t think he’ll hit 22 and 90 at this age. I think that’ll be the high point of his career, when he’s had a few full years under his belt. It could fluctuate here and there but a lot of guys put up those numbers in this era, that’s my point. I don’t think he’ll ever put up the kind of numbers you can’t replace or you will regret getting rid of.
Throw in the defense and speed, were not talking about a 5 tool guy, as much as I hate that term
so even if you are correct and maybe his ceiling isn’t as high as some scouts and i think and hes just a 20 90 guy for the next 10 years …it would still be an awful trade b/c we got a guy who can only hit righties and a guy who can only play defense in return
I’m not jumping up and down over this trade but you can’t say it flat out is horrible. You can’t look at Schneider’s numbers and just leave it at that. If there is one position leadership and defense is critical its at catcher and he’s top notch. And that’ll help this team in ways that won’t show up in stats. Look at Torrealba, we all ripped that potential move because his numbers are just horrific offensively, but the Rockies swear by the guy. they loved him and think he added so much to there big run in the playoffs.
It looks bad on the surface because we always figured we’d get a pitcher back, but to act as if we got nothing, is just not being fair. There’s value beyond just stats here. And its also still only December 1, lets see what Omar does from here.
Yeah maybe they could have held on to him so his value could go higher, but I don’t believe Omar didn’t try and turn over every rock trying to see if they could get more and unfortunately he couldn’t.
For this year they are a better team with this trade and that’s how a New York team operates. Its win now and with that mindset you make deals that could hurt you later on depending on Milledge’s development.
if i thought church was going to be that much better than milledge i’d at least agree that it is a win now move but even in the now i don’t think he is any better offensively so we traded a big prospect for better d in my mind
Big picture analogy:
The hot-stove is still in pre-heat mode.
Big picture in plain words:
It’s early in the trade season. Wait until Spring Training to moan/praise. People can still be traded.
Well church is no slouch either, and right now he’s a better player than Milledge, so he does upgrade them this year. This will be Milledge’s first year full time, I’m sure you’ll see him exposed when teams see him everyday. Baseball is littered with 100-200 at bat phenoms who show there real colors with 500 AB’s. And its not like he tore it up last year either.
But like was just said, its still early, let’s see how it pans out.
i mean i don’t think he will definitely be a hall of famer but he is a big time prospect and his play was pretty decent for such a young guy in his time in the bigs
we should’ve gotten more and if that really wasn’t possible then we shouldn’t have traded him
Anyone comparing this deal to the Kazmir deal is crazy. Kazmir did nothing wrong for the Mets front office to trade him for a #4 starter. That deal was truly insane.
But Milledge has no work ethic, is late to games and practices, has disrespected teamates, coaches and people in the front office. Yes he is only 22 and still has time to mature. But they have been trying to trade him for pitching since last season. If youre looking to change the attitude of the clubhouse then why not trade him for one of the best defensive catchers in the game and another outfielder who RIGHT NOW is just as good as much and more experienced?
I am not crazy about the deal, but I’m not going to join in i n the overreaction.
But Milledge has no work ethic, is late to games and practices, has disrespected teamates, coaches and people in the front office. Yes he is only 22 and still has time to mature. But they have been trying to trade him for pitching since last season. If youre looking to change the attitude of the clubhouse then why not trade him for one of the best defensive catchers in the game and another outfielder who RIGHT NOW is just as good as much and more experienced?
If they were trying to trade him for PITCHING too bad they didn’t get any.
Church is as good as Milledge RIGHT NOW. He’s 7 years older and has no more upside.
How is Milledge any worse than Jose Reyes?
Milledge “has no work ethic” based on what? Being late one time?
I don’t remember Milledge ever having to be benched in the middle of a game for lazy, stupid play like Jose was.
Jose does those stupid dances all over the place, no that’s not as disrespectful as a high-five to the fans is.
My point was that they were trying to trade him for pitching for a while and got nowhere. Nobody was willing to give up a solid pitcher for Milledge. If other teams were then the Mets would have made that move by now.
And how do you know Church has no more upside? He is 29 and for all we know he will get better especially since he is now in a better lineup.
When I hear about Milledge disrespecting the coaches by not listening to their advice and sticking to some of what hes been doing since high school then I’d say he has no work ethic. A guy who has reached the majors should not still have such problems with the breaking ball. He is more interested in making rap albums than working on his skills. Maybe that changes when he reaches 25 but right now he is immature. Reyes is better than Milledge causse Reyes works hard and is far better right now than Milledge.
Yes Reyes was benched for not hustling but did Reyes get himself suspended for 3 games cause he couldnt control his temper in the middle of a playoff push? I would take Reyes dancing over Milledges attitude any day of the week.
why wasnt milledge playing winter ball this year? why wasnt he playing winterball last year? he was asked to go both times and refused.
you dont remember milledge being benched in the middle of the game, but he was benched plenty of times for his attitude, and lack of hustle. he was benched a week after his suspension during the season.
also realise that milledge was a negative factor to reyes. jose was delvolving because of milledges presence. the guy was bad news in the clubhouse, and his actions outside of baseball. who is more important to the mets? jose or lastings? who has the most potential?
sorry, but lastings is heading for manny status and i dont mean his hitting. you know the manny is just being manny. well its going to be the same thing with lastings just being lastings. sorry, i dont want to root for a team with a clown like that on it.
you can’t call him a big time prospect if no team wanted to trade anything of value for him. He couldn’t get Joe Blanton for him, that’s not a big prospect. He just wasn’t highly thought of anymore.
Maybe Omar’s biggest mistake was holding on to him too long and believing he’d develop sooner. He sold low instead of selling him high a year or two ago
at one time u could have gotten a ton for reyes and then his value dropped i still would have said he was a big time prospect even though there was a time where u could not get as much for him
I don’t see any of the trade haters mention how bad Milledge has been against RHP’s in his 250 career AB’s when I hear about all the projections of what he will do. The guy is about 245/300/400/700 against RHP’s, who make up 70-75% of the pitchers a regular OF’er has to face. His numbers last season benefitted greatly from all the AB’s he had against LHP’s. So his projections currently suggest he made a fine platton partner with a solid left hand hitter.
So while Church’s LHP/RHP splits are poor as well, at least his favor the side where you can get 450 AB’s a season. Not where you can get 200 like LZ’s.
because hes 22…we have no idea what milledge will be in the future but we’re pretty sure of what church is…now i’m not a guy who will never trade young players but the guys we got are not impact players and thats y this is such a brutal deal…we take all the risk (risk being the chance that milledge develops into a big player) and get very little reward
Ryan Church is a well above average major league hitter. Especially if you give him his 450 AB’s against righties where he’ll put up an OPS of 850. He is a ‘near star’ quality player, along the lines of Rowand, Byrnes. He’s a far better fit for 2008 of this club.
Milledge may be just 22, but he’s been given 250 AB’s against RHP’s, and he’s been awful. He’s made few adjustments and cannot hit or even lay off breaking pitches He just might be a star someday, but I wouldn’t want my job to hinge on whether he can go from a really bad hitter against RHP’s to good one in one season, and that’s on the line for Omar in 2008.
1st of all, not every deal needs to bring in an impact player for a team to improve. milledge was no impact player either. 2nd, the team taking the unproven player with a history of not being exactly professional, is also taking a risk, escpecially when giving up a proven commodity. even if the proven commodity isnt exactly an impact player.
I think people are missing the point on this deal completely. The thought process I perceive from the Mets is that Lastings was going to be the main off-season trade chip used to obtain a front-line pitcher. Milledge was going to serve as the protection piece against trading away more highly touted prospects like Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez. When Lastings’ value had plummeted and no longer could provide the Mets this kind of trade protection, Omar sent him off to Washington to get Church and regain it. Church had a respectable showing in his first full-time season and simply is regarded better to other GM’s than Milledge right now. Packaging Church, Heilman, and Humber for Bedard will be more enticing to Baltimore than our previous offer was with Milledge as the centerpiece. Now with this approach taken, Omar may actually come out looking pretty well for himself here, while also being able to bring in one of the best defensive catchers in all of baseball too.
if this is the case then i agree …if we don’t do anything and this was just the move that we see now it is awful
hey maybe omar will trade wright and reyes for effing blanton. that seems to be in line with his judgement of talent.
holy crap i am still so effing pissed.
Milledge’s ceiling, according to pretty much everyone:
.300/.360/.480 with 20 HR and 80 RBI
Church on a 550 AB average:
.271/.348/.462 with 19-20 HR and 84 RBI.
With the ballpark Church was in, and the fact that Milledge isn’t proven at all, I still think that Church/Schneider was a good package for Lastings. Plus, I have had it up to here (I would point to my neck) with Milledge. I’m a Jew and I dislike him more than Church’s stupid comments.
In the end we got a catcher and a .820 OPS guy for a guy with teh POTENTIAL to be a .840 OPS guy.
Plain and simple. Good trade.
.810 OPS for Church sorry about my math.
GEEZ MAN!!
THIS SUCKS WE GOT A GUY WHO IN A FULL YEAR WOULD HAVE 20 HR 85 RBI WHEN WE COULD’VE KEPT MILLEDGE!!
Oh wait, those numbers are Milledge’s ceiling weren’t they?
And Milledge can’t hit a abreaking ball and has a career OPS of .741
putting things in perspective for ya.
with regard to the anti-semitic nature of ryan church’s conversation with the team chaplain—i’m less concerned with the conversation as i am with the fact that ANY team would have a chaplain to begin with! why would a baseball team have a religious advisor anyway? religion is a personal matter and i would think that most players would observe their own religion in their own time with their families. to bring religion and prayer services (see the atlanta braves and colorado rockies) to me is just wrong. do you know how many other businesses would have a christian chaplain working with the team? what would be the purpose? i think players should pray and seek guidance on their own clock and play baseball when they’re at WORK–because, IMO, playing baseball is their profession—it is not the arena to go to question religious subjects.
Since baseball players are away from home 7+ months out of the year , away from their families and away from their home church, having a chaplain makes sense. Not all families move around when a player is traded.
Being a baseball player isn’t a job, it’s an all-encompassing lifestyle. How easy would it be for a player to find a house of worship while on a roadtrip? Would a player, if recognized, have a less than meaningful experience if some parishoner got all star-gazed?
in that case, perhaps a better choice would be a non-sectarian chaplain who is not preaching a christian idea that often even disturbs other christians. when you use a chaplain versed in only one religion, you run the risk of ostracizing others by being non-inclusive. i haven’t heard of teams bringing other religious mentors into the clubhouse, so why a chaplain with such a view on jews? this is not where this belongs in my opinion
Good post. I think we found some common ground on which to stand.
Aren’t military chaplains trained in multiple faiths? I’m sure that a well trained chaplain could have navigated the issue with out controversy
Omar should be looking for a more value oriented trade to get the NEXT Bedar/Haren “ace”. Not wildly overpay for the back side of the current one (Santana too).
Look at Ian Snell. He had quite a good year overall in 2007. Probably comparable to Maine.
It was also very similar to Bedard in 2006.
No guarantee that Snell leaps ahead like Bedard did in 2007, but it is possible. Also, Bedard could easily regress a bit from his career year.
BIgger point though, is look at Pelfrey in his brief career vs. these guys (before writing him off as a complete bust at 23).
Snell and Bedard had a brief look their first year, with nasty looking numbers. then a longer look in year 2 with some improvement. But, it wasn’t until about year 4 (there 2nd full season) that they really started to dominate.
I didn’t cut/paste all of the stats, sorry, but I saw this poking around on MLB.com last ni
Yes, but their stuff is very different.
Bedard has a lethal curveball.
Snell is kind of like an Oliver Perez.
Also, there is no guarantee of the availability of Snell, or the specific asking price.
Plus, over the next years Bedards going to get better
so, you can put that in writing about Bedard getting better at his age (29, right?)
Snell was just the guy I happened to look up.
My point was twofold. 1) lots of current aces weren’t that good when they first came up, and 2) Pelfrey could easily follow the same path, so don’t give up on him too early. He still has some plus stuff and great mechanics, which isn’t that easy to find.
Milledge was expected by the scouts that ranked him highly to get .300/20/80.
Church, according to his career stats, would get .271/19/84 in a full season.
I don’t see the problem with him.
“The way he handles a pitching staff and the way he calls a game and the way he receives back there is maybe second to none,” David Wright said by phone.
You’d think Wright was talking about his buddy Lo Duca. But, no. He’s talking about Schneider. Which surprises me given how close he was to Lo Duca. I mean, he could still have complimented Schneider without making it appear like a knock on Lo Duca.
The quote is from:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12012007/sports/mets/omar__we_have_chips_left_448425.htm
“I think he’s one of the better game-callers in the game,” one NL team executive said … “I think they filled the holes they wanted to fill,” the exec said. “I think they got back pretty good value for (Milledge).”
This quote is from the same article I linked above. I’m not saying the exec is right. It’s just to counter the quotes by the unnamed exec Rosenthal used, and to show that opinion is at least split on this trade … unlike the Kazmir trade which was pretty much panned by all. I’d be willing to bet if you took a poll of all GMs that the majority of them would say it’s a good deal for both sides.
Kazmir II it is not.
I think we should sign FuKDome to play right field. 3 years 30ml. should do it and wrap up that. Come on Fred Coupons open that wallet a bit. I still would hold on to Church as the extra outfielder and you have Endy too. Gomez could be used to get a pitcher at the meetings. It’s all about the Mets not willing to spend some bucks. Geez, Fred if you would open the wallet once in awhile we wouldn’t be here with our backs to the wall looking for pitchers or outfielders. This is NY and you need to spend. A new stadiums on the horizon. Let’s get with it.
OR we try and trade Gomez or Church for a pitcher and not spend unnecessary money.
Gomez is the one I’d like to go but if he stays and learns the K zone im alright.
I would rather trade Gomez, especially if he returns more value.
Gomez is a AAA player now. If you trade Church, you also need to find a RF someplace, since no way Gomez can be given the everyday job.
based on the track record of Japanese position players coming over, I’m not sure I would expect more out of F Dome than Church put up last year.
You really think he will do more than .270/20/80 for your 10 million? Might as well keep Church and pretty much know what you will get.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Milledge-trade-will-not-come-back-to-haunt-Mets-;_ylt=AsTDkmQu_eDlrnMAR6fQjgGFCLcF?urn=mlb,55815
I dont know how to do hyperlinks, but this article says that if the Mets offer Church/Gomez, Heilman and Humber to Baltimore they may have accepted it.
They didn’t say who the deal was for, or when it was made.
It is probable that the deal was for Bedard, so there is a possibility that this deal was a precursor, or we wanted to get a starter and trade Gomez.
Hopefully the article was talking about Bedard!! What a steal.
If they flip Church for a Haren or Bedard I will be very happy as it is stated above. I have a feeling Omar has a plan so dont knock him just yet.
I’m lukewarm on this trade, have to wait and see how it plays out, and how church responds to new york — maybe he’s a competitive guy and playing on a last place team to empty crowds held him back; maybe he’ll crush under the pressure, or maybe he’ll be an oriole or an athletic. But I do have to say, I’m glad neither player who came back was of l_tin descent, so we don’t have to read post after post about Omar’s r_acist tendencies!
Attitude in baseball may be the most overrated thing. Baseball is an individual sport, and with Miledge’s attitude, its not like he doesn’t hustle or try hard. He busts his ass, plays hard and play decently. I remember hearing about how “bad” Manny Ramirez’s attitude is. Man, that worked out bad for the Red Sox, huh?
It is not like basketball or football, where a teammate can ruin things singledhandedly.
Mets fans, of all people should know this. Am I the only one who remembers 1986? Milledge doesn’t come close to some of the guys on that team in terms of his attitude. It is about talent, and Milledge certainly has it. He hit .272 last year with decent power. 7hr in 184 ab is not bad at all. This guy is 22, and NOTHING he has done in the majors indicate he won’t continue to improve.
Everybody keeps claiming Milledge struglled when he got called up this year. When he was starting in Center-field after the all-star break because of Beltran’s injury, he led the team in RBI for a month, even though he was battin #8 in the order! And a final number of .272 BA, .341 OBP, .446 SLG is pretty decent for a 22 year old. No reason to give up on him.
He basically had a hot streak against a lot of lefties and then after they realized they could throw breaking stuff he was terrible.
July – .273 BA .319 OBP .470 SLG .789 OPS
Aug – .318 BA .366 OBP .379 SLG .745 OPS
Sept -.224 BA .356 OBP .531 SLG .887 OPS
Doesn’t look like he had an hot streak. Even though he had a poor BA in sept, he made up for it with a lot more walks and power. If you look, his .887 OPS in the month of September shows great potential. I am seeing a player who played well for three months and shows a lot for the future. You guys can use your bias opinion because you want to defend the Mets, but I look at he Stats and I see Milledge has great potential.
UPDATE: Here is a take from someone who knows both systems well, which I find a pretty keen observation:
“The Mets didn’t protect Jesus Flores in last year’s draft. Flores goes out, has a solid season for the Nats and will now likely be their starting catcher this year. Instead of having Flores as their catcher, the Mets trade an outfield chip in Milledge for Schneider, the guy who Flores will replace, and Church. And they still don’t have a starting pitcher. Oh yeah, they would have had one if they didn’t trade Brian Bannister. Terrible judgement.”
TilMetsDoUsPart, a response?
hi.
But what is “hi” really?
Just a combo of two letters after G I presume.
Maybe “hi” is the guy who is to replace Lastings Milledge?
nice job being really cool. i just hope you realize how garbage this trade is and how good milledge really was. At 22, he is on his way up. While at 29, Church may have peaked.
Peaked? He had his first MLB season over 100 games and he peaked? He has been consistantly good, and has already reached Milledge’s possible ceiling.
Milledge’s success isn’t even a sure bet!!!
Basically, you are whining about a 7 year age difference. It’s OK, daddy Steinbrenner will take you to Disney World and then buy it for you. Will that make it all better?
Why is everyone giving up on the team because of one trade. This trade was to fix problems in the clubhouse and it still improves the team. All the players the Mets have dumped so far were clubhouse problems. Lo Duca was too outspoken for the generally quiet Mets team. Mota was terrible and had the steroids issue behind him, and obviously Milledge had his list of grievances against him. Schenider is a huge improvement defensively and is great and managing a pitching staff which the Mets absolutely need. Church should bat .280 with 15 homers. The lineup should not be a problem at all so even though they dont hit great, their defense and attitudes will help the team.
Minaya now needs to dump Estrada who will be a clubhouse problem for a decent reliever to help the pen. If Minaya can sign Silva and trade Humber and Gomez and possible Heilman for Haren, the Mets will have the best rotation in the NL. Pedro, Haren, Maine (who will be vastly improved after pitching his first full season), Silva, Perez. We would have a 15 game winner in Perez as our 5th starter.
Here is yet another response from me:
Silva is not worth th money if we still have Pelfrey to start for us.
Otherwise I agree completely.
True, people seem to forget that Pelfrey looked amazing at the end of the year. If we give him a year or two he should be a top of the line starter.
http://www.startribune.com/blogs/neal/?p=279
interesting article but no way they should trade reyes…
thoughts??
Yeah, I read that too. Personally I agree
According to the artile it states that
“There’s a chance that the Mets may re-think their reluctance to add shortstop Jose Reyes to a deal because they are desperate for starting pitching. If Reyes becomes available, look for the Mets to surge in this race. I’ve been told the Twins would prefer to send Santana to a National League team. Santana would like the N.L. so he can hit.”
However, one Omar said not likely to trade Reyes on WFan and two knowing Omar he will make other stunning move that will make us upset.
oops article…
by saying another move that will make us upset is basically trading reyes
Imagine this:
Erik Bedard for Carlos Gomez, Aaron Heilman and Philip Humber
Johan Santana for Philip Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy
Who got the better deal?
Props to Omar if the Yahoo Sports article was true.
omar is just setting up his future job with the nationals. has his boy overated acta already in place, with his upcomming superstar catcher and outfielder. all the pieces are in place for him to move to dc.
“Peaked? He had his first MLB season over 100 games and he peaked? He has been consistantly good, and has already reached Milledge’s possible ceiling.”
Last year, as I repeated many times, Milledge and Church put up almost identical statistics. It is odd how close the two are. The only difference is that Milledge is 22 and Church is 29. Milledge also had to deal with the pressure of knowing his playing time hinged on his every AB. Willie had plenty of other guys to play instead of Milledge. There is no statistical reasoning that shows that Church, at 29, will improve more than Milledge, at 22. Milledge showed good plate-discipline, which is a skill that usually takes more major-league experience to develop. So how has Church already matched Milledge’s possible ceiling if they both put up the same numbers last year, and there is not one good reason to think Milledge won’t improve? Please explain that to me
Here’s some of what Omar might have been thinking here.
Church’s career numbers with a runner on third and less than two outs:
18 for 51 (.353) with a .967 OPS 3 HR 3 2B 41 RBIs 8/7 K/BB
Nearly half these ABs (25) were put up in 2007 when Church put up a scorching .440 / .469 / .760 with 23 RBIs. He was like the anti-Shawn Green, who was .286 / .360 / .286 with 12 RBIs in 21
2007 ABs.
Milledge’s career in this dept. includes 2 hits, both doubles, in 9 ABs. Obviously, this doesn’t suggest much about what type of hitter can be, but this is a situation where you’d prefer to see the ability to shorten up and hit a single. Omar probably knows the better business decision on Millz would have been to let him play and re-establish some value. But I imagine Omar wants someone he knows can do this. It was really the biggest difference between the Mets offense in 2006 and in 2007.
Also compare Church’s numbers against Milledge’s by count.
Milledge’s OPS in 3-2 count is .586, Church’s is 1.038. Not that I don’t expect Milledge to improve in this dept, but Church’s sample size is significantly larger, and there are some promising situation stats.
Can you imagine that difference in the Mets lineup in 2007? Remember how horrible a start they got off to with situational hitting? They needed someone to do this. It would be like having 2006 Jose Valentin or even Xavier Nady back. A little unexpected pop from the #7 or #8 hole. The pitcher’s thinking “man, I managed to get Beltran and Delgado, then Alou got on, but I got through the tough part,” and Church puts a good swing on a ball into the gap. If not, he’ll take the walk and let the Catcher or Pitcher get a crack with a RISP.
There’s no reason to necessarily expect Milledge to pick up these skills. We know he’ll be a decent hitter, but not necessarily a particularly headie one. His development probably would have gone much better to this point if he’d been groomed to be a#2 or #5 hitter, but there was just no chance of that on the Mets. Getting someone a little headie with some pop is really what you need for the bottom of the order. That’s the only way to make an impact on a lineup that’s already pretty much set 1-6.
However, I still don’t understand the timing of the deal. That’s what strikes me as most odd. Its not something that couldn’t have happened later in the offseason. Its not like anyone else was particularly vying for Church and Schneider (that we know of). If I were Omar (and obviously I’m far less in the know than he, but this is just a hypothetical given what I do know), I’d have “anonymously” leaked that proposal and let the media tear it up. Isn’t that what happened with the Benson deal with Maine (whether intentional or not)? Then he could have asked for a little bit more, especially for a team in your division.
Those numbers you posted were on extremely small ABs, and you can twist the numbers any way you want. 50 AB is not even close to a big enough sample size. For example, Milledge batted .304 with runners in scoring position, compared to just .282 for Ryan Church. Next year it is just as likely that those numbers will be switched. To say Minaya went that in depth when looking at statistics is ridiculous.
Statistics such as BA on 3-2 counts are the noisiest statistics in baseball. (They vary A LOT from year to year.) So if Minaya actually is basing the trade off of a statistic like that, it is pretty dumb. It would not be the least bit surprising if Milledge dramatically improved on that and Church got worse. It is more of a luck type thing, which is why the statistic is so noisy. There is almost no consistency from year-to-year.
Adderall….
Adderall and kidney pain. Snorting concerta adderall. Adderall. Smoking adderall. Generic adderall….
i hope fmart never puts out a rap album or we might just trade him to the yankees for melky cabrera once melky turns 29
There was no pitching that could be net for Milledge, so Omar did what in his mind was the next best thing … bring in a young outfielder entering his prime that is a power hitting, gap hitter with plus defense. Church replaces Milledge as the primary trade candidate, and is seen more of value than obviously Milledge had become. In order to get the front-line starter we are in seek of, I think Church actually offers the Mets protection against trading away the likes of Gomez or Martinez.
it is no harder now to trade Gomez, and maybe even easier. With Church, there is no real need for Gomez this year, just a solid RH hitting vet that can also play iB (say, nady).
Church is just an older young guy. He will still be cheap for 3 more years (under control), and should stay productive. And these days, 3 years is a long long time!
so the future is still there even if Gomez gets traded.
What this might mean though is next year, they are more likely to go hard after a big FA stick to replace Alou, with Martinez taking over for church when he is ready (maybe split time the first year).
Before you think that is an unreasonable offer … maybe you should read this article.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/players/Lastings+Milledge/mlb.p.7706
I have a feeling its true….
And plus, he probably will end up sending Gomez with Church on the team now…
Or vice versa i dont care. Church is better now, but Gomez could possibly be Rollins or HanRam just in the OF.
43 doubles and add the fact of playing in RFK Stadium …
the switch to Shea will actually serve him very well.
550 AB average of 20 HR and 85 RBI..
So basically Church is Milledge’s ceiling.