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…from what i can gather, the Phillies, Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Mariners, D’Backs and Angels have all been linked in rumor to O’s LHP Erik Bedard, who most people in Nashville seem to feel will eventually get traded…
…jeez, with these teams involved, among others we are not likely aware of, i’m starting to believe the notion that bedard could end up costing more than Johan Santana…
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whoa…better hang on to all the lastings escobars!
I’m gettin’ nothin’….. for Christmas…..
GMs think… our prospects… are bad
I’m gettin’ nothin’… for Christmas…
This offseason’s nothing but sad!
Yeah, that’s all I got… stupid Christmas music at work….
You can take the Yankees and Red Sox out of the mix. There is no way the O’s trade Bedard to one of their division rivals. Especially those two. Mets chances might still not be good, especially since it’s hard to get Angelos to agree to deals, but I don’t think we have to worry about an AL East team getting him.
Nope, AL teams will instead get Santana and Haren. Whoopie!
Other AL teams still have a good chance to get Bedard. It’s just that you’ve taken two teams with elite prospects better than what the Mets have out of the equation. That’s big.
The Red Sox and Yankees have a good chance at Haren and Santana anyway. It would be worse if Bedard were, say, a White Sox.
I actually came to the comments to post a similiar sentiment to those above.
Take out the Yankees and Red Sox (NO way McPhail would trade him to either without receiving a price neither would pay (Joba) back). That leaves the Phillies (NO Chance – they would need to trade Major Leaguers, their system is BONE dry), Mariners – I have no idea what they have in their system, so maybe; Angels – they don’t trade prospects, they never have, anyway they need a bat way more than pitching, if they deal prospects it will be for Miggy.
I see it as a three team race, Dodgers and D’Backs both have better prospects than the Mets, but will the O’s demand more from them because they have better stuff? If the Dodgers won’t give Kemp, Kershaw and Loney, then would any package be that much better than Gomez, Martinez and Humber or Pelfrey?
its a shame, another off season with nothing
Reality says all we are getting for X Mas is Nady for the great Ben Johnson.
I’d take Nady for Johnson :)
Does anyone else feel like they are in the end of “Trading Places” with Dan Akroyd and Eddie Murphy??? “SELL MORTIMER SELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL”
this is crazy!!! 2 many teams interested
i’m usually pretty optimistic, but it seems like our rotations going to be Pedro, Maine, Perez, Livan H., El Duque/Pelfrey (with the other in the pen)
I’m sorry man, but thats really not bad…you have a front threee capable of 15+ wins…If Maine hadn’t hit a wall with his IP totals, he would have definitely gotten 2-3 more wins. Livan as a number 4 is pretty good, and El Duque(moreso than Pelf) matching up against another team’s 5th starter is a pretty good deal for us. Obviously the one thing the team lacks is a dominant ace, but most teams don’t have that. At least we’d have a fairly solid 1-5, and not having that last year cost us (only 3 wins from teh 5th starter, all coming from Pelfrey in September)
Yeah but the demands will be different here. The O’s aren’t trying to compete in 2008 like the Twins and they’re less likely to engage the Yanks and Sox as division rivals. I think the only team that could trump the prospect packages the Yanks and Sox are offering anyway would be the Dodgers. I’d put them as the favorites for whoever they want if they make their best offer, but who knows if they will.
Just offer Pelfrey, Gomez, Martinez, and Mulvey to the Twins for Santana.
Steep price, and it might look terrible in a few years, and hurts their immediate pitching depth, but if it stops the madness, I say do it.
Of course, this is the Mets, so guaranteed that Johan will be meeting with james andrews by June.
Since they have Church, pry away Nady in a minor deal.
Johan
Pedro
Maine
Perez
Duque/Humber as a caddy
Pen is the pen.
Reyes
castillo
DW
Beltran
Alou
Delgado
Church
Schneider
Castro/Nady/easley/Anderson/Gotay
That team can win. Just pray that none of the SPs goes down, since there is no depth left (Sosa? Garcia?)
When Delgado Alou leave, will there be sufficient bats available to the METS to get a decent lineup? What if two other teams significantly overpay for Teixeira and Dunn?
There are are a lot of future issues to take in consideration. Soon, prospects may be our few shots at stars. What if pitchers get injured in 2008? Will there be a sufficient replacement ready? It’s a risky business. You need MLB ready prospects, good bench players, relievers, and plenty of ‘far away prospects.’
And the performances of the prospects offered to trade away could give us more wins than Santana.
That’s why giving up too many studs for Santana would be bad.
studs what studs???
prospects. Wrong word.
I’ll throw in Humber as a thank you bonus. But it won’t happen.
Fans and Omar think these guys are the second coming of Griffey, Vlad, Schilling, Clemens and Gooden.
The superstars show brilliance early. Some fade, some continue. But the guys we have are all going to be mediocre players at best
Thats a load of crap, just because they’re not going to be those guys doesn’t mean they’ll be mediocre at best. Draw up some comps before you say things like that. Look at what Dan Haren did as a 23 year old, basically the exact same thing Pelf did. Find players cracking AA rosters at 18. Compare Gomez to the early career of other big, five tool types.
I really think that won’t even get us close. That’s the point, no one seems to want anything to do with our prospects.
This could change, everyone knows that these reports offer no real insight into the actual negotiations. But if you believe what you read, the Mets aren’t even in the room with a good number of teams as far as the young talent they are capable of offering.
At this point, I want Haren, bedard and Santana (and Cabreara) traded by tomorrow, and not to the Mets.
Get the madness over with, and let Omar concentrate on getting someone like Snell that is what the team really needs, and at a manageable cost.
But mostly, it will prevent Omar from panicing and doing something so stupid it will make people look back fondly on the Lastings deal, if not Kazmir.
Watch the Braves end up with him.
Cost means nothing to the Mets…they can overpay for guys all day.
The fact of the matter is a lot of teams think they’re close to playoff contention and with the boom in revenue sharing it’s hard to pry difference makers from other teams.
We may walk away empty-handed from these meetings and I’m not so sure that outcome is that horrible. Between injuries and over-hyping somebody is going to really screw their team by putting all their eggs in basket by acquiring somebody else’s unsignable player.
Remember to a reasonable degree all these teams can re-sign their players. It’s the number of years that teams are willing to commit to that is the difference.
I say tell all these GMs to screw off and see who’s sweating at the trade deadline in ‘08.
Look, when it’s all said and done, Pelfrey has the stuff to get 10-12 wins w/o costing us a ton of losses. Just pick up an innings eater and we’ll try all of this again at the trading deadline or next year.
Do we really need to trade for a top tier pitcher this year?
Pelfrey will do better than he (and the other five slot jokers) did last year. IMPROVEMENT.
Maine was finally pushed over the long haul of the season. He had a great year. Sure he could regress, but I am assuming that he now know what it takes to go a full year. I see him to stay same at worst. SAME
Perez. The number of unearned runs last year (20) concernts me. If you add them to his ERA, he suddenly would have a modified ERA more in line with his bad years in Pitt. That being said, with Pedro back, I think he will be a calming factor. I see Perez to stay the same SAME.
Pedro. This is an improvemetn over Glavine and El Duque. A full year of Pedro, who will be even farther removed from surgery. IMPROVEMENT.
Fifth Starter. Glavine’s (excluding his last four starts) had a great year- 200+ innings and a very respectable ERA. Frankly, he should have won 18-19 games with how he pitched. That needs to be replaced. Who can do this? Is a top tier starter a must? Could an innings eater accomplish the same? If you agree with the above of two improvements and two the same, then the Mets should not be that off. Of course, we need to improve quality starts so that we do not burn out the bullpen again. I think a Livan could get it done.
As for length, Maine gave us nice games. Pedro should be able to go 6. Pelfrey needs to step up and give length.
Sure we need someone to eat innings, but must it be an ace? I really do not see us as being desperate, although everything is acting as if we are.
Yes and No. No we don’t need to make a trade for a front line starter this year. It’s best to wait and sell high on the likes of Humber, Pelfrey…etc. Yes, because Omar’s job is on the line and he feels like he needs to make a splash after a terrible collapse last year.
I don’t really think half of them are serious contenders.
The Dodgers and Angels both need a hitter if they use their chips. They each got good pitching respectively (Lackey, Escobar, Garland, Weaver, Saunders/Santana for LAA and Penny, Billingsley, Lowe, Schmidt (If hes ever healthy), and Loaiza/Kershaw/Meloan for LAD)
The Yankees and Red Sox are in-division rivals so you know the Orioles are going to do anything in their power to keep him away from those teams short of a massive overpay.
The Phillies just don’t have the chips. Their best chip is Victorino and they need him in Center Field to replace Rowand…nevermind that Gomez is 5 years younger and has a higher upside.
The Mariners are the real wild-card in my eyes. Although without Jeff Clement, I’m not sure if they have enough either (Why would Baltimore want Clement with Wieters in their system).
The way I see it playing out is the Orioles are going to use the Yankees/Sox to raise the price as much as they can, but if they deal him it will be to a team outside the division. I think both LA teams realize they need to focus on getting a bat so they’re more pretenders then anything and it’ll come down to the Mets and the Mariners. If one of them makes a real offer it’s probably a done deal. Otherwise they’ll just hold onto him.
Maybe someday we can trade away a big player and receive a team’s terrific prospects… Maybe someday we can draft some serious young stud who can either develop (by playing in the majors) or being dealt for a huge game changing player…
Someday…
Are you talking about pitching only? Because I think David Wright qualifies as a young stud who was developed through the system.
Do we really need to trade for a top tier pitcher this year?
Yes. Absolutely. We did nothing last winter to improve our starting pitcher and we paid for it in September. We need another reliable starter to compliment Pedro, Maine & Ollie.
Agreed…
The rest of the NL East teams are not standing by and watching the Winter go by… Philly acquired Brad Lidge for a song, Atlanta is going about making some interesting moves and you know they always do something good, Washington has a terrific young outfield (of Pena, Dukes and Milledge) to go with a band new ballpark and Florida, for now, still has Miggy and Willis (and if they deal Miggy, they may have some really good prospects)…
Time to wake up…
Screw the Yankees..they have enough
Eh, today another $16 Million for Pettitte.
Just another day in Yankeeland…
for starters you’ll have to include carlos gomez and mike pelfrey. no one seems to be too high on humber. and if the mets really dont wanna trade f-mart omars gonna have to be crafty and find some other prospects or roster players that interest baltimore. also the dodgers have alot more promising trading chips at this point then the mets do.
From what I’ve heard the Dodgers think that getting Haren, Blanton, Kuroda or M Cabrera are more of a priority than Bedard, and the Angels don’t need starters.
Phillies don’t have the expendable young players that the Mets do.
D’Backs are thinking Haren, but are rumored to also be thinking Bedard.Mets biggest competition is the D’Backs, but if the Dodgers get Cabrera or Blanton or Kuroda, the Mets may be the sole contenders.
I’ve been considering possible Mariner deals, and if they really want Bedard, they could part with Johjima, Morrow and Jones, and another prospect. Which is good, but the questions are A) Are they willing to spend the money for a big time outfielder to replace Jones B) Will they have a young enough team to not have gaps at multiple positions, C) Will they risk parting with a 23 year old with the talent of Morrow? D) Will their hitting order be effective enough to make them contenders?
How about
E) Would Seattle take back Ramon Hernandez and his contract in exchange for Johjima and F) Why would Baltimore want Johjima with Matt Wieters probably less then a year away from being ready for the big leagues.
With what you said about E.
Ramon Hernandez could be used to get a mid level prospect from another team.
And F I agree with totally. I haven’t thought about that.
Gomez, Church, Estrada, Heilman and Humber is my tipping point. I wouldn’t mind putting Bradley/Hinske/Fukudome in right field, and Sanchez, Smith, Hernandez, Sosa, Feliciano, Schoeneweis & Wagner in the bullpen.
To All Fellow Met Die Hards:
It pains me to say this, but Omar will not be able to pull a #1 SP out of his hat. We simply do not have the prospects to match up with the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers – Omar has either drafted poorly (i.e. drafting middle relievers with #1 picks) or has prematurely pushed what talent we do have (i.e. Pelfrey, Gomez). It is time that we lower our expectations for this offseason and expect something along the lines of Silva, Livan, Colon, etc. What the Mets have to realize nowadays is that the only way to really acquire an ACE is by developing one yourself. Teams just do not give away top notch starters and most are being smart and signing them long term before they reach free agency, i.e. Cubs and Padres. For the few teams that cannot sign pitchers like the A’s, O’s and Twins, they are going to trade them for a king’s ransom of players. This is where minor league drafting and development comes in – Since Frank Cashen left, the Mets have stunk at doing this. As the Braves and A’s have proven over the last few years, a team’s farm system is its lifeline – either by having cheap ultra talented players supplement the major league squad or by using these prospects in trades that will net a star player. The Mets must realize this and until they do, this team will continue to struggle to grow because a big checkbook is a nice weapon to have but when the players available to buy are no longer star quality, checks become nothing more then a toilet paper alternative and the Mets are finding this out this offseason.
Red Sox and Yankees aren’t going for Bedard.
Dodgers and D’Backs are the only realistic suitors, based on the info we know.
BUT
If the Dodgers really want to hold on to Kershaw, Loney and Kemp, they might want to go after Blanton, and the D’Backs are pushing for Haren.
Leaving the Mets as the top contenders for Bedard.
Gomez, Church, Humber, Heilman and Estrada for Bedard, or the same deal minus Church and Humber and plus Pelfrey OR Mulvey.
I bet Omar will trade for someone no one has even mentioned as a possibility. Hopefully one of these guys:
- Webb, Lackey, Harang, Carmona, Vazquez, Young, Verlander, Shields, Escobar, Penny, or Marmol.
You might think I’ve been smoking, but the way Omar operates, you never know.
Don’t forget Bronson Arroyo
um yea youre crazy bc half the pitchers you named are on playoff contending teams who need those guys if they want to go deep in october. would we have traded al leiter before the 2000 season for prospects? exactly not a chance. none of those guys will be moved i can promise you.
Marmol?
Do you really want him that badly?
Didn’t even come to mind for me…
My point is that Mets fans shouldn’t feel like Omar doesn’t have a chance to make a trade for a decent pitcher. There are lots of other pitchers besides Santana, Haren, and Bedard. Just because the so called experts haven’t written about Omar being interested in others, doesn’t mean that he’s done.
please god just dont let the phillies get bedard.
Webb? Verlander?? You are drunk…get a clue. Better chance of the Mets having an all-white team than the Mets acquiring one of Webb or Verlaner.
Ryan Church, Brian Schneider, David Wright, Billy Wagner, Aaron Heilman, Scott Schoeneweis, Mike Pelfrey, Philip Humber are all on the 25 man roster. And that’s off the top of my head.
Did I mention he passed on RODRIGUEZ and SANTANA and is going after BEDARD and HAREN?
Why aren’ the Mets going after Koruda? Freddie Coupons not interested in spending $$, I’m assuming…as always.
So cheap.
That would be settling wouldn’t it?
If you want to trade Reyes and fire everyone you’re not a Mets fan are you?
Just goes to show how important the farm system is, even if it’s just for developing trading chips. How is it that the Red Sox and Yankees can spend so much on free agents, and still have a solid farm system? Why is it that the Mets haven’t kept up. As much as I like Moises Alou, it did cost us two first rounders, just like Livan Hernandez would. That’s the biggest reason why I’d stay away from him. Keep the first rounders, and the extra two from Atlanta. Build the farm system up and maybe in a couple of years we can trade for some stud pitchers, if we haven’t grown them ourselves by then.
After the info I’ve learned, I think that it is not only a possibility, but a probability that the Mets get Bedard.
The Dodgers won’t trade Kershaw, Billingsley, Loney or Martin. It would make no sense.
I think they go low key and get Blanton for Meloan and T. Abreu or two/three other semi-big time prospects. They could always sign Kuroda. They may even test the market for Tejada.
Cabrera is either going to be a Giant or Angel. I could see Sabean signing Silva and dealing Lincecum, Lowry and a prospect for Cabrera, and the Angels are still front runners.
No one is getting Santana. The Twins may just go the season with him considering the Sox aren’t giving Ellsbury, and the Yankee third prospect and lawsuit deal. but if he is traded, it’s going to either be the Sox, Mets, Dodgers and MAYBE Yankees that get him.
D’Backs are getting Haren. They are perfect trade partners.
I also believe the Cards will go hard after Lohse.
If it costs both Gomez and Church for Bedard, I think Omar will do it and sign Bradley/Hinske/Fukudome to platoon or start over Endy.
A little lesson for everybody, and to further show how cheap the Wilpons are:
The reason why the Yankees and Boston have such amazing farm systems is simple: They are willing to spend a lot of money, and the cheapskate Wilpons are not. The big players (”bonus babies”) that come out of high school, college, etc., demand big signing bonuses up front (even though they may never even make the majors) and a lot of times teams who are unwilling to spend this big money (Mets) will shy away from drafting them, thereby allowing the NYY and Boston to get these players later in the draft. And so while part of the reason why the Yankees have such a better farm system than the Mets is due to the fact that Cashman is a much more shrewd and keen evaluator of talent than bonehead Minaya- most of it has to do w/ big money..money that Freddie Coupons is unwillilng to spend. And also how do you think the Yankees got Soriano? They payed a LOT OF MONEY to extract him from Japan and also agreed to meet his demand of a huge signing bonus. The Mets are not willing to put out this extra money…Freddie Coupons will always be Freddie Coupons.
Will you shut up?
Thanks for the bogus lesson.
The problem with the Mets is that they’ve been playing by Bud Selig’s rules, not overpaying the players they drafted. The Yankees have ignored Selig’s slotted numbers and the Mets haven’t. I hope, in the future, that the Mets will follow the Yankees and ignore the slotted pay scale that comes out of the commissioner’s office.
Now you can go back to your unstubstantiated rant.
I think this might be some good moves by the Mets, and might just get it done
O’s are RP depleeted, what with Ray and Baez out.
So Gomez, Joe Smith, Aaron Heilman, and Mulvey/Humber
for Bedard
Then since I read the Pirates are gonna let go of Jose Castillo anyway, offer Gotay for Nady and let Nady and Church platoon RF.
Then move either Pelfrey or Duque to the bullpen, and sign another RP, like Affeldt or Mahay to a 2 year deal.
Those moves strengthen our rotation obviously, our bullpen, and our lineup INCLUDING the bench, because Nady and Church are both serviceable PH.
Of course the Mets will do none of this
Gotay for Nady would never happen.
Neither would Gomez, Smith, Helman and Mulvey/Humber.
Hope everybody retained their lesson- I was glad to educate/enlighten.