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According to ESPN’s Steve Phillips, at their blog for ESPN.com, ‘there are rumblings’ that the Pirates and Indians are talking about a potential trade that could include OF Jason Bay, C Kelly Shoppach and LHP Cliff Lee.
…from what i understand, there is also a bit of talk that bay could be moved to the Blue Jays, for, i’m guessing, AJ Burnett, which is the only player who would make sense…
Earlier today, at his blog for ESPN.com, Peter Gammons wrote that by trading Lastings Milledge, the Mets ended any chance of acquiring Lee, who the Indians will listen to proposals for, ‘but won’t trade him unless they get overwhelmed.’
When asked why the Mets are no longer talking about Johan Santana, Gammons told ESPN News, “They have no players.”
…thanks to Peter Wade, MetsBlog’s eyes and ears, for the info…
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Okay, we get it. Every team thinks we don’t have attractive prospects. Man, I may be sick of hearing this, but it must really suck for Omar to hear this over and over.
Peter Gammons has never had a kind word to say about the Mets. Not about their owners, management or players. Why would any Mets fan put stock in this drivel. He’s a bitter, Mets hating, lemon sucking scrooge, every year, every hot stove season.
Fact is that he’s as anti-Met as that loser Wallace Matthews.
Omar, please do not buy into the trap that these media mice have portrayed. You do not have to make any trades if it does not improve the club. Sportswriters in the tabloids are just trying to sell papers. Real fans already realize that an ace pitcher is tough to find. Sign a free agent starter. Pray for Pedro.
If you trade half the farm, these same big mouths who are complaining that you need to get an ace now, well, they be crucifying you for trading each and every prospect who does well later.
Do nothing rash. Take the heat for it. Later, when Gomez, Guerra and FMart set the league on fire you’ll be the one smiling.
how did we go from 7 up with 17 to play or whatever it was to having “no players”??
This franchise is terrible.
i can’t take any more of this. and it’s only day 1!! we went from being big players 2 weeks ago to having “no players” today?? i mean i know our prospects can’t compete with some teams… but seriously, what do the Yankees or Red Sox have but a bunch of overhyped question marks? give me a break!
PG, i love you man, but i think you’re being a schill for other teams to drive negotiations into overdrive.
[...] Gammons elaborates: “the Mets have no players.” Buzz: Bay for Lee, Mets have no Players | MetsBlog.com [...]
I smell a Livan Hernandez signing coming REAL soon…like next 24 hours Livan is a Met. This sucks, we really need someone and eventually I could see Omar making a move out of desperation like giving up Fernando, Gomez, and others for a mid-level pitcher.
smells like chicken….
Wow, is Gammons ever a d-bag. . . .
. . . but, he seems to be right, except that it’s not that the Mets have no players, it’s that they have no PITCHERS. There’s a difference. And, look at it this way — if we had exciting young starters, we wouldn’t want to trade them, anyway. . . .
Regardless, we all need to take a deep breath and realize that the Mets are going to be wallflowers this offseason.
With these NBA-like pre-free agency trades, the only way to succeed is to develop young pitching. Easier said than done, but that has to be the focus, and it may be — we just don’t know. If I’m the Mets, I look at organizations that develop pitchers effectively, e.g., the A’s or Indians, and hire some people away from that organization.
Than again, with Omar’s cronyism, I doubt it could happen.
I undrestand your point but developing young pitching is a lot easier said than done….what about the sure things trio of Generation K? What about beliefs that hard throwing lefties are expendable because of their small frame (Kazmir) What about spending two first round picks on pitcher and both seeming to not have either the control or movement to dominate ML hitters (Humber & Pelfrey)? If pitching was so easy to develop, I think we would have done it already. Its just that pitching is very hit or miss and but it also happens to be the key to being a championship team. So when you have an opportunity to get those pitchers and you already have the offense, you have to pull the trigger.
If it’s really just a crapshoot, it’s just tough luck, but some teams seem consistenty able to produce promising pitchers. It’s not just the luck of the draw. It’s about getting them the right training and mentoring through the system. There may be nothing we can do, but if there is, we have to do it, and I think raiding a productive system would probably be the most effective way. Also, we need to resist the temptation to trade younger prospects. We want depth in the system, and by all accounts, we’re thin.
And, in this climate, imagine what we could get for Generation K. Or, don’t imagine — Santana.
This franchise is terrible?
No, what’s terrible is the media spin out there – Pelfrey, Humber, Gomez, Martinez, Mulvey – these guys are not ‘nothing.’
This is ridiculous – perception is reality. Why would anyone be more sure of Ian Kennedy than Mike Pelfrey? How did Joba Chamberlain’s 16 innings of ML experience make him untouchable?
Whatever – in August when these guys have re-proven themselves, there will be planty of trade market.
not to mention chamberlain is supposed to be a starter and he only relieved this year.
I blame peterson. What they did to pelfrey this year was terrible.they yo-yoed a guy whose confidence was shaky to start with. they should have just stuck him in there til he came around. they kept throwing brian lawrence out there. and he was twice as bad as pelfrey. that is what they should do this year. the man is huge, and he throws very hard, but peterson wants him to pitch like ian kennedy. I throw 90 % fastballs if I am 6′7″ and throw 96. I am the bad dude on the block. Instead the jacket had him nibbling. this made him wild. this kid needs to develop an attitude. He is too soft. this overly analytical approach of peterson’s does not inspire confidence in guys who are new on the block. does anybody here think that ollie, for instance, actually listens to the jacket when the guy talks non stop to him for 5 minutes. he just stares off into the clouds. and somehow wins 15 games. when he is confident he wins. same with pelfrey. peterson is not a confidence builder. peterson wants robots. there are a lot better pitching coaches in baseball than peterson.
Whoa. Check out Ollie’s record the last couple of years before he came to the Mets. You gotta give Petterson some credit. I agree that his style may not work for everyone, but you need more than one pitch to pitch in the Bigs.
I am a big Pelfry fan. But this year I didn’t see that devastating sink on his fastball that can make him an ace one day. Plus he went like 0-5 in his first 5 start and the games weren’t even close. Something was obviously wrong, so you can’t just keep sending him out there. That could make things worse. I hope we still have him by the start of the 2008 season b/c he started to regain some of his form and confidence toward the end last season.
1) however has been doing the scouting for this team must really be in trouble everytime someone says we don’t have the prospects…….
2) just go sign Colon, Livan, Dotel call it a day……
Re: #2. I hope you are right. Its starting to look like It’s going to take every prospect we have and an old rosin bag that Tom Seaver once used to get us a Haren/Bedard.
So why not just sign some cheap Free Agent alternatives? Heres why: Ownership has just denied a contract extension for Omar which basically translates to “Let’s see what kind of team you field in 2008 and then we’ll talk”. Coupled with the inaction of last trading season, Omar is going to feel pressed to make a “Splash” to save his Job.
Lets hope these teams believe this garbage that we “don’t have anybody”. It will prevent us for gutting our farm or when teams start reducing their demands, suddenly we may find outselves in the running because our “nobodies” just became “somebodies”.
Gomez is nothing.
Hey, did you hear?
The Twins may trade Santana if they get the right package…
Gammons has always been a BoSox shill (pretty openly, at that). Our prospect weakness is that we’ve only got a handful that were ever considered igh-end and the 2 mlb-ready pitchers among them have not looked good in the mlb. So, if we’re going to put together a high-end package, it just about has to incude Gomez and F-Mart, which leaves us pretty bare.
It’s not that we have no one, it’s more that we only have a very few and will need most or all of them to get a top starter. Certainly, F-Mart and Gomez matches Hughes and Melky (who is strictly league average).
Gammons may be a BoSox shill, but it looks like he is right. The Mets don’t have the high end guys teams want. Show me the Lester, Bucholz, Ellsbury, Hughes in the Mets system. The Red Sox and the Yankees spend what it takes to get the Boras guys in the draft. The Mets go for signable guys then give them away for nothing. There are problems here in the development department that management won’t or can’t address
What is Pittsburgh doing? Cliff Lee is terrible. I guess Shoppack is young and cheap. After their trade for Matt Morris last year, you’d think MLB wouldn’t allow them to make trades.
i thought omar was the man. were’s all the young talent this genius was supposed to acquire through smart trades and drafts??? not to menition fa sigings, and just the kind where you simply over pay in years and $$ ie: petty and carlos the touchy.
just very bitter right now that this organization has fallen sooo far back in the 1.5 seasons since we last saw the playoffs.
Who would you guys rather see the Mets sign, Silva, Kuroda, or Livan?
Silva.. at least he’d eat inning. Livan would just eat …well, whatever he saw
Kuroda doesn’t want to play on the East Coast. As for the other two- pass. Thanks Omar for drafting middle relievers and crap in the draft. You’re a swell GM.
since the season end i’ve said over and over ;
pls. omar give us silva and chacon as FAs & save
prospects if larger game comes along.
W/ millage gone dont look like its gonna happen.
Silva, theres still a chance he’ll get better.
Switching leagues, age , ballpark lat*n culture of team etc.
I have been saying this for several weeks now. Silva is better than the guy we are so worried we wont be able to replace(Glavine). Better ERA, one more win, for a team that was not as good as we were last year. And that is in the American League. He is 28 years old and nine games over .500 for his career. If we dont pay this guy, then we are stupid. He is not as fat as Livan and well worth the investment. Get him Omar, and now. you wait on him i think we will be sorry. Starting five will be Pedro, Maine, Perez, Silva, Pelfrey. Me likey!
i just dont understand why people keep saying melky is so great. i dont see it.
i’m sorry, but the reality is we still don’t know what most of our prospect players can do at the major league level. scouting reports are nice and all…but it’s all just a guessing game.
everyone (here at any rate) agrees the mets screwed up huge last year by not pitching humber down the stretch when they were plugging dave williams and brian lawerence into the 5 spot.
then when they finally did throw him out there in one of the biggest pressure spots against the nats in the final week (hardly the best way to make your starting debut) he pitched pretty well for 4 innings till he gassed. this was coming on the tail end of what was truly his first full, healthy year back from tj surgery.
we won’t know what he is capable of (#2 starter, #3 starter, #5 starter, middle/long reliever) until he’s given a legit chance to pitch.
Dan Haren (age 23) PCL 2004
11-4, 21 games, 128 IP, 33BB, 150K, 4.15 ERA, 1.33 Whip
Phil Humber (age 24) PCL 2007
11-9, 25 games, 139 IP, 44BB, 120K, 4.27 ERA, 1.24 Whip
so hear we are 3 years after Haren’s last year in AAA and he’s an ACE that we don’t have enough talent to acquire (allegedly).
and Humber is labeled as a prospect that nobody wants and is destined to be a middle/long reliever?
i’m not saying Humber will be Haren…but i think he clearly has the stuff, and the minor league numbers to be a very solid piece to a contending rotation at some point in the future.
TJ surgery and terrible MLB start.
Dan Haren, ML stats, 2004:
2004 STL 3 3 4.50 14 5 0 0 0 0 46.0 45 23 23 4 17 32
32 Ks in 45 innings, whip was 1.35. 4.5 ERA.
He’s a stiff. Cut him.
Actually, he wasn’t any better than Heilmann, although not a direct comparison since Heilman started. And actually have a very good K rate!
for goodness sake melkys not even roberto kelly.
But i saw joba in AA and the diff b/t him & pelphrey is
that sitting 50ft behind the plate in a small park you can
feel the electricity on the stuff of joba.
I agree, anybody that watches the Yanks regularly knows that Melky is a marginal Major league outfielder. He has a decent arm and okay range in center but offensively hes an average player and he does not project to be a player who will develop any significant power. Nor is he a better than average base runner/stealer!!
Honestly, for 2008, I think Endy Chavez is a better player than Melky. Teams are getting sucked into his skills, but they are really not that good.
Spot on!
melky projects over 150Gms to 10-70-.270-10Sb 9maybe)
Strong Arm, o.k. range but not a great judge of fly-balls And this guy is a leading chip in deals for guys like santana? I just dont get it !!
Did you notice they had to include Hughes?
Melky has a full season under his belt. At least teams know he can hold up, and at what level he’ll produce.
Yeah, but if its Hughes and Melky, isn’t the Melky-Way
one of importance in a deal for Santana?
I mean this is Johan Santana not Shawn Estes we’re
talkin’ ’bout.
we’ve got nothing to trade because all the deals omar did last year depleted our young pitching inventory. we gave: bannister, bell, ring, lindstrom, and owens, and got nothing of trade value in return (vargas, adkins, johnson, burgos). plus, as has been noted we have two 1st round picks who seem to be worth a box of donuts between them (pelfrey and humber). that’s a lot of chips that basically have turned into a value of zero, plus milledge’s devaluation, and gomez seems heading in the same direction. a very bad year for the mets’ brand at this stage. agree with previous opinions that our spin machine (horowitz) isn’t doing anything to help. someone is putting the word out there that we suck, and no one is disagreeing. its already hurt us in the milledge deal. omar is buying into the negative press, and locking in our losses.
“They have no players”
This is another reason why Minaya should go. Their scouts seriously suck if they have had earlier picks than the Yankees but have no one at the level of Phil Hughes or even Jon Lester. Absolutely pathetic. Get a REAL GM in here.
Most of our talent is a few years away. I’m sure Pelfrey or Humber could get us something, just not what we want.
Why would a team trade an All Star for three guys who don’t have a season between them? AT least Loney & Kemp excelled when called up. Our call ups have all struggled.
My only criticism of the minor league system is that we have guys like Tatis clogging it up.
Here’s a catch 22. If Pelfrey excelled when we called him up, would we be looking to trade for an Ace?
Not a Catch22 because he didn’t!
I gotta say, Omar has made some bad moves in the last year (particularly Bannister, and Owens/Lindstrom) but lets not pretend that Bell was anything better than a pile of garbage as a Met. When he was w/ the Mets, he was a disaster in a can, everybody dreaded when he would come out there and he was really just an awful relief pitcher. I give the Brewers pitching coaches a ton of respect for getting him turned around.
Bell & RIng are disasters because Willie wouldn’t pitch the kids in a tough situation. What if we had given Bell another year to develop? He could have been stabilizing our pen in 2007
Another year to develop? You realize he just turned 30 this year right?
Middle Relievers are a toss-up. Look at guys like Pedro Feliciano and 2006 Duaner Sanchez. Guys can go from looking like bums and journeymen to bullpen locks and studs on another team, year by year.
It was time to pull the plug on Bell, unfortunately he worked out for them. But bitching about that trade is pointless.
Why ? was it time to “pull the plug” on Bell ?
Wasn’t costing anything & if out of options, he wasn’t
a better option then Sele? Park? coming into & out of spring’07?
Wait, so if we pitched them in tough situations they would have performed better than when they stunk in non-tough situations? So when Bell put a fastball right down the middle to Derek Lee, who hit is 600 ft to win the game at Wrigley, that was not a tough situation?
There are other trades to criticize but anyone who thinks Bell projected to anything like what he is now while he played with the Mets is just playing Monday Morning Quarterback.
I am sure O’s fans do this with John Maine as well when he pitched to a 6+ ERA for them but now is pretty good with us.
450, 500, 600 feet: how far a HR goes does not change the # of runs it is worth, and there is no pitcher in ML history who has not been taken deep. you have a hard-on for every met pitcher that ever gave up a walk-off? that’s pretty juvenile.
heath bell was for some fans a clear example of a guy that had very few opportunities to establish himself with the mets. there are a whole lot of very vocal, very short-sighted ny fans who also have no patience for their young players and crucify them at the first opportunity. no wonder we have so few home-grown stars around here.
Thank You!! My earlier post in response was junked
musta been cause i made comments about the
lack of Bells,Lindstroms and Owens’ ethnicity.
If ya know what I mean. you have to be careful what
you post now especially w/ the impending marriage
to SNY. Still hard to believe you junk 3 kide who throw
95+ and get nothin’ in return.
Plus as an earlier post noted leaving us bare and having to cover our AS- ah, I mean back sides @ AAA
w/ the likes of Park, Lawrance,Collazo, Sele, etc..
If we value our prospects so highly then LET THE KIDS PLAY!!!!
I hear you, but I think that lots of times with these middle relievers there is SO much inconsistence. In the last three seasons we have seen many relief pitchers pitch very well or poorly and then switch teams and pitch in the exactly opposite way. To name a few: Farnsworth, Schoeneweiss, Gagne, Bell, etc.
A) Bell wasn’t “a pile of garbage” he just wasn’t given a fair
shake by either Omar or Willie because he was from the
last administration.
B) He pitched for the Padres NOT the Brewers.
C) Very strange but, not unlike Omar to trade for a hard throwing
Righty / young RP who had no real success @ the ML level
Giving up a young SP (Bannister)WHILE trading the same(Bell)
for a young OFer (Johnson)when you already had Millage,Gomez and just gave a fat contracy to Alou.
Question/ Thoughts, if the Pirates are again, in full-tear-down mode why not Matt Morris??
i’d rather get snell
Matt Morris in 2007: 10-11, 4.89 ERA, 102 K’s, 1.52 WHIP…no thanks
Those #s sound alot like Livan and hes gonna get 3/4 yrs
40/5o mil !!??
No ones getting Snell,Lets be real WHY would they trade him?
AND Morris is on the last yr of contract and only 32 + he is f/NY
I’d like Silva but if negotiations get crazy i.e. 4 yr / 48 mil not good
enough why not take a flyer ?
Because I keep sayin’ I got a bad feelin Omar in the end is gonna throw Daddy Skillsets $$$ @ Colon and/or Fat Livan.
I mean maybe you could make somethin out of a morris,marte,
nady type deal relieving Pirates of contracts. NO ??
What about Lowry from the San Fran? Seems like a decent young starter with some upside that the Giants would consider dealing given their total lack of youth or offense. What do u think it would take to pry Lowry from SF? Gotay and B level prospect?
wait, you think they would trade a “decent young pitcher” …”given their total lack of youth”?
the guy has a career 4.00 era and won 14 games last year despite lack of an overwhelming fastballl. he is a left-handed, more experienced brian bannister. you seriously think the giants will let him go for gotay and a ‘b’ prospect? from a trade value perspective, basic math applies: zero + zero still = zero
I don’t think they would trade him for pelfrey, let alone gotay+
ok would luv it but again,why would sf give up a young sp they
can control????
Where did my post go? idi*ts
Teams arent trading with us because they think Omar is going to deal out of desperation. If we cant make a reasonable deal I say screw them sign a couple of the free agents Hernandez, Silva types.
oh yeah, but he did “replace” estrada with Schneider.
give up the “la_tino” crap
talk about desperation?
the yanks have 150 mil tied up in 10 players and will most certainly have a payroll over 200 mil this year and they are relying on three unproven rooks in their starting rotation…thats desperation
the difference is Omar is walking around Nashville with his pants down saying he wants to add a number one starter while the yankees are saying they are comfortable with what they have.
Its not like Omar just traded for two white guys, or in the past, sign Billy Wagner, or trade for John Maine or anything like that…
God this fan base is full of bigots…