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…from what i understand, the Twins have been huddled up in their hotel suite in Nashville since late sunday night…
The Yankees have given the Twins a take-it-or-leave-it ultimatum that ends today, reported Jon Heyman yesterday at SI.com.
Later in the day, Hank Steinbrenner confirmed the ultimatum to the New York Post, stating he will not allow a bidding war with Boston to continue.
Meanwhile, according to Ken Rosenthal at FOXSports.com, Santana has told the Twins he will not accept a trade once the season starts, so if they’re going to trade him, they need to trade him now.
…frankly, the sooner this ends, the better…and i’m glad hank and santana feel the same way…
Meanwhile, according to the Providence Journal, Santana also told the Twins he will only accept a trade to the Yankees or Red Sox, since he has a full no-trade clause in his contract.
…basically, at this point, the Twins must decide whether they want Phil Hughes, or do they want Clay Buchholz or Jon Lester…that’s what this comes down to…
…my worry is that, once this is completed, the loser among these two teams will simply take their package and offer it for Dan Haren, or Erik Bedard, or one of the other pitchers i am hoping may end up on the Mets…
Matt, as I asked in another post, why on earth does Santana not want to consider the Mets as a landing spot? With the Yankees offer where it is now, I would think there’s an opening for us.
My guess is that the Twins told him a list of teams that have the value needed to acquire him; and the Mets are not on that list.
Santana is not considering the Mets because he knows that we’re not a true contender in any of these trade talks. I don’t know how many times this needs to be stated, but the Mets simply don’t have enough to acquire Santana, just look at the packages being offerd by the Yanks and Sox, it blows away anything the Mets could possibly offer. Plus it’s also been speculated that Mets ownership has balked at the 7 year, $150 plus million contract Santana will receive when he’e traded to his new team.
Yea OK Hank, like anyone would take his “take it or leave it” stance seriously after he proclaimed he wouldn’t negotiate with ARod once he opts out of his contact…… No matter what! What a joke…….
actually dude, that was Cashman who said they wouldn’t negotiate with A-Rod and that was before Hank even ascended to Boss-dom.
Eh…I always that the A-Rod issue was a ploy to keep him out of the market, with the assumption that nobody would give a higher offer than the Yankees….Obviously it was correct.
Initially it was cashman then Hank stood by him after his ascention……. Dude….
The problem is not only the team that loses out on Santana but the fact that Haren and Bedard are controllable at a reasonable price for more than a year. There will be teams in on them that couldn’t afford to get involved with Santana because of his contract demands.
I think Mets’ fans should lower their expectations because I just don’t see how we can compete with the trade offerings of other clubs. I hope I am wrong, but I don’t think we are going to see a top of the rotation guy added.
Tha Yankees will offer him the legitimate opportunity to win the World Series every season… And they are willing to (over)pay him $25 Million per season for 6 or 7 years…
Of course he will end up on the Yankees… It appears that the ‘new’ Steinberenner regime feels like he’s in charge of a Fantasy Baseball team as well!
“It appears that the ‘new’ Steinberenner regime feels like he’s in charge of a Fantasy Baseball team as well!”
Ain’t that the truth.
Why shouldn’t he? It’s all relative.
To win, you need big-time players. Big-Time players cost money, which you get by fielding a winner.
Invest money up front to sign the biggest players. Those players win championships and sell tickets, which makes you even more money to sign more big-ticket free agents.
The cycle keeps going and going until you are fielding a “fantasy baseball team”, and you know what? It sounds like an awfully good business strategy to make your organization a successful one, not something that you should be criticized for.
The Yankees have wasted more money on bad contracts the last decade than any other team in baseball. By a wide margin.
The cycle keeps going until their payroll keeps getting bigger and bigger — and with fewer returns. That’s the thing. While they keep spending more and more money, there is relatively less and less returns.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they spend themselves into financial trouble soon.
They’ve wasted that money, but it doesn’t matter because they have more than made up for it with other signings.
The bottom line is that the Yankees have made themselves into a team that contends every singly season. If they continue to do business the way they currently do, that will not change. Ever.
And btw, the idea of the Yankees spending themselves into financial troubles is almoxt laughable. Do you realize how profitable the Yankees truly are? Outside of Disney, they might be the most recognizable entertainment organization on the planet. Certainly in the world of sports. I don’t think they’re too worried about going into bankruptcy.
I think it does matter. 7 years now and 0 titles. Yet they’ve spent over a billion dollars trying to buy one. Relative to the money they’ve spent, their returns recently are some of the smallest in baseball. Smaller than the Mets.
I wouldn’t be too sure of them avoiding financial problems. I’m not saying they’re going to go bankrupt, but I can see them having some sort of financial difficulties in the near future.
having the best hitter and pitcher on the same team aint a bad way to run your team.
That’s the cost of doing business when you’re the most valuable sports franchise in the world, operating in the country’s largest market. It’s brand maintenance money…
To me, it’s far less damaging to the sport than fielding a team that refuses to spend a legitimate amount of money on payroll…at least they’re committed to trying to win.
Exactly Matt.. Exactly..
Are you paying attention everyone?
We’re not getting Haren.. we’re not getting Berdard.. for the same reasons we didn’t even come CLOSE to getting Santana..
Viva Livan!
Face it. We are not elite. The Skanks and Sox remain alone at the top — and as long as we have a GM who makes head-scratching trades of top prospects for garbage, it’s hard to have faith we will be winning anything.
Exactly.. and his marginal trades are killing us well..
What does this team need? The same thing everyone wants.. we’re still paying for last off season when we broke apart a great bull pen, and traded away Bannister for some magic beans..
Now the Pads have Heath Bell, the Orioles Bradford, the Royals have a 13 game winner..
And we have Brian Schenider and Ryan Church.. and yup.. there’s the vomit in my mouth
Good point – but as it’s been discussed before, you can’t fault Omar for Bell or Bradford. I at one point ripped Omar for trading Bell, until I saw how putrid he was in a Mets uniform. Please look at his stats for the Mets – they hit .300 + off him and his WHIP was over 2.00.
As for Bradford, he was asking for a 3 year deal, something that is somewhat unreasonable for a relief pitcher. Mid-releivers are hit or miss and could be amazing one year, and garbage the next (and Bradford isn’t getting any younger).
I still cry myself to sleep at night over Bannister.
Even Wagner was telling Randolph to let Bell close when the division was all sealed up..
If all he needed was a change of scenery to be as good as he is now (go watch the tape of him owning the rockies in the tie break game)
Then that is just as disturbing that this organization can’t bring out the best of its players, as is it is that we give him away.
My problem has never been trading away these guys, it’s that we get NOTHING back from them.
And now add Milledge to the list… the fans will not be happy with Brian Schenider being an automatic out, and Church leaving the game in the 6h inning cause the team brings in a lefty from the bullpen.. while Milledge probably has his breakout year this year playing with a giant chip on his shoulder.
I’ll buy Heath Bell. I think he needed a change of scenery. But not Bradford. Bradford was our Pujols-killer. I think he would have won us at least 2-3 more games last year. But alas, Omar preferred Scott Steroidweiss instead.
Bannister. Damn hamstring.
Nonsense. Of course you can blame Omar for Bradford. 3 years for a good middle reliever is the going price. As a big market club, if you can’t afford to pay the going price for a good middle reliever then there’s something wrong.
And Bradford is a good middle reliever. He’s been one of the more consistent middle relievers in baseball in recent years. If there’s anyone you give a 3-year contract to, it’s Bradford.
Then to turn around and give Schoeneweis 3 years only compounds Omar’s mistake. Unlike Bradford, Schoeneweis has been consistently BAD throughout his career.
Don’t you mean Scott Steroid-waste?
Three years is the going price NOW for a middle reliever. It wasn’t at the time they were negotiating with Bradford. When Baltimore gave Bradford three years everyone thought they were nuts. The Mets didn’t think there was any way a team would be dumb enough, in that market, to offer him three years. They signed Show to a similar deal only after they realized the market had turned. It wasn’t a question of preferring Show to Bradford – if they had it to do again, of course they would have signed Bradford. Minaya just underestimated Baltimore’s willingness to overpay (at that time)…
Schneider is not quite an automatic out, and while he may not get on base quite as often as say a Paul Lo Duca, he will also not allow every team in baseball to run wild and free on the bases against the Mets like say a Paul Lo Duca, and he probably won’t be getting thrown out of key late season games due to his temper either, like say a Paul Lo Duca.
No, last year and before last year, the better middle relievers were getting 3 years. That was nothing new last year. That was the going rate for good middle relievers. If they didn’t view Bradford as good enough for 3 years that’s their problem, but that was the going rate for top middle relievers. Bradford’s stats justify his 3 years.
And who is “everyone” who thought the deal was nuts? Oh, you mean Omar and his assistants? Hmmmm.
Omar underestimated Bradford’s market. Sure. But part of the job of a good GM is to know the market. And know his players. And know their worth.
If Bradford hadn’t gotten 3 years from the Orioles, I bet he would have gotten it from someone else.
the mets are not getting a top pitcher. gomez sucks. who would want him. and no top free agent will come to this bush league team that’s more concerned about “appearances” than anything else
fire omar, fire willie, force freddie coupon to sell the team. it’s really out only hope
What brings you to say Gomez sucks? He’s only 21 years old and has improved over the last 3 years from .275/.331/.376 to .286/.363/.414. In two full seasons in minor league ball he stole 105 bases. His ceiling is high.
unlike milledge who has a fast bat. i really didn’t much of anything special from gomez, other than the fact that’s fast running down the bases. maybe i’ll be wrong. but i’ve always thought milledge had far more upside than gomez, who i view as endy chavez
Gomez is light years more talented than Endy. Does that mean he can be an All Star? Who knows. But I do like that he’s 6′4″ and only going to get bigger.
I agree with that; he does seem to fit the Endy style of baseball, and even has a similar stance. Endy was also a highly touted prospect who never really developed. So I guess we’ll see.
I do agree with Milledge had more of an upside.
Yanks stating a drop dead deadline and will not negotiate past the expiration date? Where have we heard this before?
Hahaha, excellent point!
Hank really needs to go away. Can’t take anything the guy says seriously. Granted, he is trying to take away any leverage the Twins seem to be using, but don’t go public with it. Tell the Twins what the deal is and if it doesn’t get done, walk away. Tell the media then.
Bedard or Haren? I think our best chance is to get Bedard. Fewer teams will be competing for him. Yanks or Red Sox are pretty much out of it. I think Pelfrey, Gomez, and Heilman get the job done. They would be getting a pitching prospect (who I think is going to be a #2 or very good #3), a CF prospect who many teams love (I think a deal would depend on how they feel about Gomez), and a quality bullpen arm whom they can move to the rotation if needed.
May have to throw in a lower level prospect, especially if we take Mora off their hands (platoon in right field with Church).
The Mets would never take Mora from them given the upcoming steroid name releases. He and Tejada are all but guaranteed to be on the list.
I can see Tejada being on that list…Mora though?
what i find interesting in the aftermath of the milledge debalce is the real split in metsland. while it seems most people are like me and hate the trade… the majority of people who support sound like blind nationalists.. my country, my team right or wrong. this argument that a true fan supports the team no matter what is just plain silly. it’s that kind of thinking that lead to ignorant comments like the kind from our new rightfielder
so are you gonna stop rooting for the team because they made a bad trade? It’s not about “my team right or wrong,” it’s about getting lemons and making lemonade. I hate the Milledge trade, I think it was awful and indefensible. That said, I’m gonna root for Ryan Church and Brian Schneider, and everyone else who wears a Mets uniform (unless we sign Barry Bonds), and while I hope Milledge turns into a good player, I also hope he finishes his career with a .125 batting average against the Mets.
no, i will root for the mets. but i have to tell you i find little to cheer for, right now. outside of wright, reyes and beltran and a healthy alou, the lineup looks dismal right now
pedro will be fine and maine and perez will give you some solid starts but beyond that it’s a really flawed team, led by a flawed manager and bad GM
How come everyone pencils Pedro to be “fine” or “ok.” There’s no guarantee he will start 30 games.
You keep on obsessing over the Lastings Milledge trade. There are other players and prospects on this team. I don’t love the trade but it sounds like other GM’s wouldn’t offer him much more than a bag of baseballs for Milledge. Think it’s possible both they and Omar are aware of things about Milledge that we’re not? It’s probable, don’t doubt it.
Then you blast the manager, GM, management. You talk about Milledge’s upside being bigger than Gomez’s. The thing is, you utterly dismiss Milledge’s downside. It was very real, visible and amplified by the NY media. Hotdogging it to the point where other teams (Marlins) legitimately had a gripe and started a fight. Dogging it at times on the basepaths. Barking bad defense that he made up for a bit with his speed. Then insulting his manager in the dugout, on national TV, and more than once.
Maybe his talent more than makes up for these things, maybe not. Maybe he will adjust to the breaking balls down and away, maybe never.
He should apologize to Willie not the other way around. Omar trades based upon the realty of the marketplace. We trade based upon fantasy valuations, rumors (suspect) of trades that were offered. We had a busload of smoke pumped up our butts by the newspapers about his supposed trade value, it’s possible it was all smoke.
The Red Sox have been pretty adament about not including Buchholz in the deal, in fatc, there is some speculation that they’ll give up Ellsbury before Buchholz.
I have no doubt that the loser of the Santana sweepstakes will turn their attention to Haren or Bedard, but I’ll assume that the O’s would never deal Bedard within their own division. I also assume that the Mets don’t have nearly enough to get either Haren or Bedard. I hope I’m wrong, but Gomez is at least a year away from being a major league hitter, and both Pelfrey and Humber’s value has never been lower. And the O’s are going to give up Bedard for that? I’ll believe it when I see it.
We go from crying about having traded away Bell and Bannister to talking about our current prospects having low or no value. I think other GM’s look at some of the pitching talent we’ve traded away, particularly those two pitchers, and they realize that we are a source of discounted talent. I agree with Alexander on the scout board, the Peterson method works with some pitchers, but utterly fails with certain others.
GM’s look at how we gave up on Bell and Bannister and the smart ones realize that some Mets pitching prospects are pure GOLD, at a deeply discounted price. There are a lot of shrewd and hard working GM’s out there. Some of them are thinking along just these lines.
Admittedly; I gotta believe.
Omar better be working the phones on his way into town, and get something done with Bal or Oak ASAP….I believe somewhat in the Yanks deadline only because, they don’t want this to be decided thursday and not have a chance at getting someone else…….
When is everyone here going to realize that in order to be an elite team and have elite players on your team you need to spend like an elite team?
I think that teams spending like the Yanks and Sox is going to become the norm among teams that want to be considered consistent winners.
Santana is going to be traded. The Twins cannot afford not to trade him at this point. Either the Yankees or Sox is going to have him because they are the only ones willing to pay him. Whoever does not get him is going to go out and get Bedard or Haren to offset the signing of the Santana winner. That leaves someone to overpay for whomever is not signed between Bedard and Haren in a desparate attempt to remain relevant.
This crap is going to become the norm, I can’t see how it can be stopped. We may as well all stop complaining about teams “buying” players and championships.
who’s complaining? pirate fans? who cares what they say? of course it’s about paying for rings. the sox did it twice in four years.
Look up and down this board and see how many Met fans are quick to criticize the Yankees for going overboard on payroll.
It’s far from just Pirate fans, dude…
i saw one comment about them spending $300m, which is not going to happen. any met fan that complains about spending is a hypocrite.
Charlie, they were at about $220 million in 2007. A-Rod and many others have already gotten raises. If they bring Santana on board, I can see their LT payroll going to at least $250 million. OK, so maybe $300M is a bit of a stretch … but I wouldn’t count it out.
And how can you say the Sox paid for their rings when they were outspent about 65% by their main division rival?
What are you talking about?
Their main division rival is the Yankees.
Try comparing what the Red Sox spent to the rest of the baseball world.
Yes, and it’s the Yankees who they have to beat out to get to the postseason every year. They spend 65% LESS than their main division rivals.
As for the rest of the AL clubs, sure they spend more. Just like the Mets spend more than the rest of the NL. So if the Mets won a title this year, it means they bought it?
As for the rest of baseball, you do know that the Mets luxury tax payroll was about the same as the Red Sox this year, don’t you?
The spending gap between the Mets and the NL is substantially smaller than it is between the Red Sox and the AL.
I am sorry to say it, but I just think that the Yankees have the best ownership. I believe that the Red Sox, Mets, and some other teams very well could spend just as much as the Yankees do. The difference is that the Yankees put more of their revenues back into the team than anyone else does. Like I said somewhere above, I think it’s an investment that they’re willing to make, and the Mets are obviously not. The longer the Yankees continue to be a favorite to win the WS every year, the more money they will make, they’ll spend more on FA players, and the jealous fans of every other team in baseball will continue to bitch about it.
No, it’s not really. The Mets have a lot of players on the front end of a lot of back loaded contracts. It’s like buying with a credit card. The just put off paying for what they’ve spent right now.
They’ve spent almost as much as the Red Sox in recent years. And even if you don’t want to consider it from a LT perspective, the differences amount to just $28 million.
Heck, the Yankees spent almost $80 million more than the Red Sox.
You can continue to idolize the Yankees. That’s your choice. I will admit that they are pretty good businesspeople. But as for their baseball smarts, they stink. You say they may be favorites to win the WS every year, but they don’t. They should, given the obscene money they spend, but it’s been misspent.
The difference is that the Yankees put more of their revenues back into the team than anyone else does.
That’s pure poppycock. You are drinking the kool-aid of Michael Kay. And you have no facts to support that opinion.
I would say they make better business decisions than the Mets, and perhaps they are willing to exceed the Luxury Tax more than the Mets, but to say they are more committed to their team than any other organizations is just nonsense.
They are a beneficiary of 1) their history 2) the large market in which they operate and 3) good business decisions.
Mets had roughly the same LT payroll this year as the Red Sox. They have spent like an elite team. Only they are not getting back elite results. Hmmmm.
this goes all the way to the amateur draft. It is there that the Red Sox and Yanks “over” spend and the Mets do not, thus filling their minor league systems with viable prospects while the Mets do not.
I hope you’re not implying the Mets are cheap here. I once asked a fan to support that argument and the only thing they could come up with is Beato who was a 17th round pick. He was asking for close to a million dollars and I doubt any other team gave a 17th round pick that money.
So could someone please provide some evidence that money constrictions is what is keeping the Mets from having a strong farm system? I’ve never seen anything to support that.
Matt- Like you said before, I cant see Baltimore talking to Boston or the Yanks regarding Bedard, unless they were willing to part with the blue chippers…but I doubt that they’d want to deal intradivision as well.
Omar, just focus on bringing in Bedard, please.
I think we can get bedard. Our main competition for him are Baltimore’s division rivals. Plus the offers for him will be much less from either of those two because they would at least be reluctant to trade Hughes or Buchholz within the division. I would think the prospect of keeping their blue chips combined with letting bedard be traded outside of the division would be more appealing to them
I am really worried about Omar overpaying for a pitcher now that he hasn’t gotten his contract extension yet. That’s really bad timing.
Yea, Omar might do something stupid like draft Eli Manning.
Haha. Great comment. Kellen Clemmens will have a better career…
Seriously though, the mets are not going to have a shot at Haren as his price will be just as high as Santana considering he’s already signed for a couple more years. I can see the Sox making a strong push for him.
Bedard is our best shot as hopefully the O’s will not want to trade him in the division. It’s going to come down to between the Dodgers and the Mets and in the end… I think Omar’s willingness to throw in F mart will be the deciding factor.
“my worry is that, once this is completed, the loser among these two teams will simply take their package and offer it for Dan Haren, or Erik Bedard, or one of the other pitchers i am hoping may end up on the Mets”
Good observation Matt. And bank on it!
Santana probably figured that making his BoSox/yankee statement, he was going to short circuit the process and get the deal done.
Otherwise, teh Twins would keep playing teams off indefinitely, and pull a Boras looking at other suiters.
And, the Yankees are quite the laugh, making a difinitive statement like (no more negotiating if X happens” Somehow, I think they no longer have any credibility in that area.
[...] Buzz: Clock is Ticking for Johan SantanaBy Matthew CerroneThe Yankees have given the Twins a take-it-or-leave-it ultimatum that ends today, reported Jon Heyman yesterday at SI.com. Later in the day, Hank Steinbrenner confirmed the ultimatum to the New York Post, stating he will not allow a …MetsBlog.com – http://www.metsblog.com [...]
time spent playing video games statistics…
Sorry, don’t agree 100% with you on this!…
bidding numbers…
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