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…i sense there is a mad scramble starting, with teams like the Mets and Dodgers, among others, hounding the A’s, Marlins, Giants and Orioles, to try and snag a top-line starting pitcher, while the Red Sox and Yankees remain bogged down in talks with the Twins about Johan Santana…
Last night, in the Washington Post, citing ‘league sources,’ Barry Svrluga wrote that LHP Erik Bedard has has no interest in signing a contract extension to stay with the O’s beyond 2009, which could provide additional motivation for his team to move him in a trade during this off-season.
In yesterday’s Daily News, Roger Rubin wrote that it was Lastings Milledge whom the Mets recently offered to the O’s for Bedard, not Gomez, along with Heilman and Humber, which was rejected.
Rubin quoted a baseball official as saying…
“You put Ryan Church or Gomez in place of Milledge in an offer and it might be a more attractive offer.”
…early the buzz from nashville suggests that to get bedard or Dan Haren, it may end up costing more than the Twins will get for santana, since, technically, the A’s and O’s do not have to make a trade…
…for instance, to get haren, the Mets may be asked to part with Carlos Gomez or Ryan Church plus Fernando Martinez, along with two pitchers, ranging from John Maine to Aaron Heilman to Phil Humber…for what it’s worth, i don’t believe the A’s have much interest in Mike Pelfrey…it will take a similarly large package to land bedard, who may cost more than haren at this point…
Meanwhile, according to Jayson Stark, at ESPN.com, Bedard is drawing ‘massive interest’ from the Dodgers, Mariners, Mets, Yankees, Red Sox and Phillies, among others, though he writes that the Orioles think they could have a ‘potential match’ with the Dodgers.
…as i wrote yesterday, the Dodgers have long been referenced as bedard’s most aggressive suitor, from whom baltimore will likely request OF Matt Kemp, RHP Jonathan Broxton or RHP Clayton Kershaw…of course, the Dodgers may need many, if not all, of those prospects to get Miguel Cabrera from the Marlins, though most people still believe the Angels are the front-runner for cabrera…
Lastly, according to the Providence Journal, the Red Sox have had ‘discussions’ with the Brewers regarding RHP Ben Sheets.
…sheets is interesting, in that while he hasn’t made more than 24 starts in any of the last three seasons, he is eligible to be a free agent after next season, and could be the potential ace so many teams are seeking, assuming he can stay healthy…the thing is, coming off of a successful season, i find it hard to believe the Brewers will cut ties with their marquee pitcher…if they do, it’ll likely happen during the season, not now…
Peter Gammons:
“Even though Beane hates the winter meetings, especially when the minor league people stick them in an untenable mall like the Opryland “Hotel” in Nashville, but he will be there accepting bids on Danny Haren or Joe Blanton, as well as Huston Street. Beane has already let the Mets know that they don’t seem to have the talent he is seeking, but will start with the Diamondbacks and Red Sox.”
You can’t just “make something happen OMAR!” if the counterparts won’t sit down to talk with you.
Enough.. Enough on Haren and Berdard..and Santana
Do we have anything else up our sleeves?
It should be obvious to anyone whose read the endless posts on these guys that the Mets don’t have enough to get them, and if they do, if means we leave a giant hole somewhere else (e.g. Reyes)
So please tell me this team has some other ideas.. please tell me their entire off season plan wasn’t these 3 guys, and that they themselves thought they could actually get one with what they were offering.
Fire Omar now if that’s the case
Well considering that those three are the only pitchers available that are “Ace’ quality and represent an upgrade, whatelse would you do?
I’m not the GM.. but if your entire off season plan is to get one of 3 guys, who you never had a chance at.. that’s pretty terrible…
I’m sure theres plenty of marignal moves out there that would make this team better.. none of which include the names Ryan Church and Brian Scheinder
Church and Schneider do make this team marginally better, for this year at least. MIlledge had been getting hounded for his RF defense, and now you have a guy has got a good glove for RF. You also have a platoon partner for Gomez. Offensivey Church and Milledge are a wash-again, for this season at least.
I do believe that Schneider represents an upgrade over Lo Duca…We did need to go defense first at catcher, especially given the well above average prodcution we get from SS and CF. Brian does that, and becomes a more capable platoon partner with Castro, who you’ll see much more against lefty position.
I wasn’t a big fan of the trade, but now that time has passed, I see some plusses. In addition to that, Mota is gone.
I just don’t see where Omar could have legitimally upgraded the team…consider:
1b: Delgado is locked up through this year, and he can’t upgrade this offseason. Next year however, I expect him to, with Delgado’s contract up, and Texiera on the FA market.
2b: Options included Castillo, Scrappy Hustlepants (Eckstein), and moving piece to try and get Hudson. Given that Omar wanted to save chips for an SP, Castillo was the best choice…And if he was offered, Arizona is in no way interested in Milledge, as they are bleeding OF prospects. 4 years may have been a bit too much, but it appears that with many teams trying to fill that position, 3-4 years would be a benchmark.
ss/3b: Don’t even mention A-Rod
LF: Picking up Alou’s option was hands down the best way to go.
RF: We had to chose between MIlledge, Gomez, Guillen, Fukudome, and other. Given Guillen’s temper, our failure with Japanese players, and the fact that it looks like Gomez would be moved for a pitcher, it was thought that MIlledge would start. Obviously that is no longer the case, but this year, Church and MIlledge are a wash offensively, with Church having a better glove.
C: Lo Duca -35, declining with the bat, no arm, asking for a 3-4yr deal. Torrelaba: 29yrs old, career year BA of .250. Estrada: 29, switch hitter, former all-star, bad with young pitchers, Schneider-31, ok bat, plus arm, good rep. with young pitchers…Ideally R.Hernandez would have been the best, but Baltimore was asking for a lot here…There was no perfect g uy to put behind the plate, but at least we finally have someone who can throw out runners.
RP: Got rid of Mota for nothing. Currently, we have Wagner, Heilman, Feliciano, Sosa, Schoenweis, leaving 2 slots open. Among the candidates: Sanchez, Padilla, El Duque, Burgos, Smith….Pen will be fine.
SP: Pedro/Maine/Perez.. 4-5 is between El Duque, Pelfrey, Humber, and outsiders. Assuming Duque is in the rotation, we are still short…I’m not ready to go into battle with Duque and a kid in the rotation…way too much uncertainty. So, we look at a back of the rotation guy, like a Livan, who will give you roughly 200 league average innings, but who is the other guy? Carlos Silva? Kyle Loshe? Who else is there?
Those three guys are the only ones available who would represent an upgrade over what we have…Those are the guys you have to look at. And if it doesn’t work out, the other guys are still there.
Pen will be fine.. WHAT???
Burgos isn’t pitching again until 2009 after his TMJ surgery… Smith couldn’t get anyone out past June 1st as teams figured hinm out… Sosa and Schowenewies were HORRIBLE down the stretch.. so please tell me how the pen is fine?
We lost 200 innings in Glavine we have yet to replace, let alone upgrade the rotation which was the goal..
I will take Milledge’s arm and speed over Church anyday…
Right now the team is a year older at LF, 1b, 2b, and we have not upgraded a single position…
So yeah.. great off season for a team that wasn’t good enough to win its own division last year.
And Scheinder’s defense won’t make up for him being an automatic out every time at bat…
Our pen is dangerously low on arms.
We have a bunch of young guys, but who knows if they will be ready. Manaya drafted all Mid releivers in last years draft (which was dumb as anything) hopefully at least 1-2 of those guys will have a shot of making the team.
The case with Smith is the same as the bullpen failing down the stretch….This was a group that had the number 2 performance, behind San Diego, for most of the year. What ultimately did them in was the fact that they would go 3-4 innings a night, and got drained. Smith was in his first full pro-season, and he eventually hit a wall. It happens. Willie used him a lot before he faltered. Again–notice the use of down the stretch. It was an uneven performance for sure, but I strongly believe it was because of being overworked. With a normal workload, it is fine. Also, we have an impact arm returning, in Sanchez. Do I think he’ll return to lights out ‘06 form? I have no idea..But he will be of help for sure.
Omar will be able to replace those 200 innings, but it is more and more likely that those innings will come from a Livan or Silva caliber pitcher…The upside is that a Colon can come in and provide those innings.
Regarding the issues of 1b 2b and lf getting older, of course they are…But who would you bring in to replace them? That is the issue here. If top talent was readily available, then there would be options, but the market is dry.
Now Schneider vs. Lo Duca….Schneider may have a lower BA, but as Paulie doesnt walk, he is the bigger liability at the plate..consider:
Lo Duca: .272avg, 24bb, .311OBP
Schneider: .235avg, 56bb, .326OBP
So while he isn’t exactly Piazza, Schneider isn’t exactly a blackhole at the plate, he is getting on base at a better clip than Paulie…If you want to talk about career production, than Lo Duca yes, is superior, but at 36, he is far from his prime days.
As far as Omar’s draft: You guys aren’t giving him time. The impact guys he is signing are all t he International Free Agents that join at age 16-17..FMart and Guerra are the first class of guys he brought in, and they are only 19yrs old….You’ll start to see these guys begin to trickle in….Since the team isn’t gettting high draft picks (with FA signings, and high finishes), Omar doesn’t have top picks, and combined with the uncertainty -i.e. the Humber/Hughes discussion earlier- and high signing bonuses, Omar is using the draft to bring in projectable guys who can come in and help quickly.
But again, the impact guys will come frm International Free Agency..Omar has dipped in this pool every year he has been GM, and in fact it was through this means that he got Reyes as well….Give the talent a chance to develop, and the farm won’t be as bad.
As rash as that fire Omar now comment is, I agree. There is no reason that our entire off season should be centered around these pitchers. We need bullpen releif badly, we need a long relief guy. We need one more guy off the bench (easley/anderson are not enough). We passed on Linebrink and Riske, and now we’ll have to push hard for Dotel.
Dumping a 22 year old prospect because teams don’t currently want him is crap. I don’t care what other teams said about him – Milledge is 22, and at this age, 1 good season can be enough to make him valueable again.
or one bad season and you are stuck with out a MLB ready RF and have to trade him for even less than what you got. Look, Milledge still netted two everyday MLB players. All of us are placing pressure on Omar to win now, this move is obviously a win now trade.
How is it a win now trade?
The only need it fills is that of backup catcher!
Did it really take Mileldge to find a catcher that can hit .220, or an OF that can only hit from one side of the plate.
Give me break.. that trade is a joke.. and there’s no young un proven talent like John Maine thrown in this time to save it.
Rob Neyer sees the truth
Faith in Church
posted: Sunday, December 2, 2007 | Feedback | Print Entry
The reactions to the Lastings Milledge trade were mostly negative, but ShysterBall’s punch line was among the best …
Look, Milledge is not as good as a lot of Mets fans think he is, but this trade makes zero sense. Ryan Church is basically a fourth outfielder, albeit a pretty good one. Brian Schneider is about as replaceable a commodity as you can get. While I’m sure they’re bummed that Milledge wasn’t getting the kind of trade market love the Mets expected, keeping him would have cost the Mets nothing. Trading him now is the ultimate sell-low move.
On the bright side, Mets fans now have a second atrocity to list after the Scott Kazmir trade, and as everyone knows, good rhetoric demands multiple examples.
I don’t read every word that ShysterBall writes. But I read most of them, and this might be the first time that I’ve flat-out disagreed with him. Yes, this one could blow up in Omar Minaya’s face. But I feel like I’m the only man on the earth — well, except for maybe Omar Minaya — who appreciates Ryan Church.
Basically a fourth outfielder? Church’s OPS+’s the last three seasons: 118, 131, 114. His raw stats, while not particularly impressive, have come while he’s played half his games at RFK Stadium, which ranks behind only Petco Park among pitchers’ parks in the National League. Over the last three seasons, Church’s road stats were better than Matt Holliday’s.
Matt Holliday’s.
I don’t mean to make too much of that. Obviously, given a choice between the two of them, you’d choose Holliday. But I suspect the difference isn’t nearly as much as you’d think.
On a related note, it’s been written that Church can’t hit lefties. Well, he’s not good against them. His career OPS against right-handed pitchers is 833 (.352 on-base, .481 slugging); against lefties, it’s 723 (.331/.392). But that platoon difference is nothing extraordinary. If you’ve got an extra righty-hitting outfielder with a decent glove, platooning him with Church isn’t the worst idea. But a platoon partner isn’t necessary. Church is perfectly capable of being an everyday outfielder for a championship team.
In the long run, this one might make Minaya look silly. Just like the Kazmir trade. In the short run, though? The Mets are better with Church than with Milledge.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3139025&name=Neyer_Rob&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3139025%26name%3dNeyer_Rob
No.. what Rob Neyer is saying is that Church is futher along at the age of 29 then Milledge is at 22.. and therefore will be slightly more productive over 162 at bats in 08 then Milledge will..
It does NOT mean we HAD TO TRADE milledge to get a player of Church’s quality.
That is the uspetting part about this deal.. Church is nothing speical, and Milledge someday will be.
if Omar wanted to upgrade RF fine.. but he didn’t have to give away Milledge to do so..
SOMEDAY MIGHT BE, or he may just be another tuff luck story.
Either way it shouldn’t take a Lastings Milledge to get a Ryan Church and Brian Scheinder..
I cant wait to come to this blog when Scheinder is doing his usual .230 thing in the 8th hole.. and Church is playing 6 innings a night cause the team brings a lefty in.. and everyone is going ballsitic.
Milledge will battle with Zimmerman to be the Nats All Star next year.. write it down.
I’d love to get Bedard, but I really don’t think we have what it takes to get him. Not to say that we don’t have the value needed to acquire him, but the other teams involved have better value than us. We don’t have a Matt Kemp, a Jonathan Broxton, a Clay Buchholz, an Ellsbury, a Hughes, Brandon Wood, etc.
It’s been beaten to death already here, but Pelfrey and Humber have little value to many teams, and Gomez / F-Mart are too far away and raw to be of much value.
If we should be focusing on anything, it should be bullpen help. We should have went after Rauch rather than Schneider. We should have signed Riske, but our GM is so focused on getting a star pitcher (and in doing so will kill our bullpen by trading Heilman.)
Interesting how our inability to get Santana comes down to who we drafted in the 1st round in 2004 draft. Mets had the 3rd pick and picked Phil Humber. Yankees choose about 20 picks later and took Phil Hughes. Here’s their respective minor league stats:
G IP ERA H SO BB WHIP
Hughes 54 275 2.09 171 311 66 0.86
Humber 54 289 4.11 263 266 84 1.20
Humber’s stats last year are not grounds for comparison. He had tommy John surgery in late ‘05. You can’t judge a pitcher based on his 1st year back from surgery. This is his make or break year – and I think we need to hold on to him for at least one more season. Sadly though, if he is mediocre again this season, he’ll have no trade value at all.
Incorrect. He had TJ surgery around June of ‘05. He had almost all of ‘06 and all of ‘07 to rehab. That’s almost 2 years.
It’s not just Humber/Hughes that’s an issue. It’s the entire Mets farm system. And many of Omar’s moves have only served to weaken it without adding back any value.
He had 70 innings in ‘06 which was filled with small pitch counts and injury concerns.
Actually, let me strike that. He was outstanding in his minor league innings in 2006. He was mediocre last year in AAA.
Actually, it was 78 innings in ‘06. That’s at least half a year. So 1 year of rehab is still incorrect. It’s 1-1/2 years.
His 2007 ERA was mediocre, but maybe part of the problem is being in the Pacific Coast League, a hitter’s league. But why the heck didn’t Omar do more to keep their AAA club in the International league? Omar seems to have neglected the farm system in more ways than one over the last few years.
I just don’t understand how our prospects value falls so easily. Humber did rehab from injury, so I’ll give him a pass. Pelfrey, on the other hand, I still like and am confident that he will pan out to be successful. I’m hoping it is this year, or we have another mess on our hands where a former top prospect gets traded for nothing.
How did Milledge’s value fall to this point. Delmon Young was still traded for someone of high value, this after hitting an umpire in the chest with at baseball bat. How is it possible that a rap album and a note on a locker kills a potential stars value, but assaulting an umpire doesn’t? I just don’t get it.
Delmon Young’s value fell after the umpire incident, but it started at a much higher position than Milledge’s ever was.
Delmon Young was the top OF prospect in all of baseball and put up an incredible year in the OF for a rookie. He also after the bat incident openly made an effort to clean up his image and dedicate more time to the game.
All Milledge did was say “I’m me and that’s who I’m going to be.” Delmon showed maturity, Milledge showed us his rap name.
L-Millz in da house, boy-eeeee
thats why we need some new talent evaluators in this system. the yankees constantly pick in the lower half of the first round and they have a better farm system than the mets??? enough said
This is because the yanks pay “above slot” for draft picks, as do the Red Sox. The Mets only pay “slot” so they only draft players they are confident will accept a salary/bonus based on drafted position. Until this changes (is it Fred? Jeff? Omar? Tony B? I don’t know) the Mets prospects will always be lesser.
That’s why I think it’s better to draft kids out of HS rather than college. Way more upside. Way more to work with.
Also way further from the Major Leagues.
College players are better for this team in that we need an instant infusion of youth into this farm system. We have plenty of long-term projects thanks to our International Signings.
So, essentially the Mets are screwed.
Silva/Livan here we come!
if we’re lucky.
Would you believe Jason Jennings and David Wells?
If you’re going to gamble on Sheets, you might as well try for Harden or Prior for a much steeper discount.
I’d rather gamble on harden. you can expect lights out for 10 starts with him. prior is done.
To All Fellow Met Die Hards:
It pains me to say this, but Omar will not be able to pull a #1 SP out of his hat. We simply do not have the prospects to match up with the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers – Omar has either drafted poorly (i.e. drafting middle relievers with #1 picks) or has prematurely pushed what talent we do have (i.e. Pelfrey, Gomez). It is time that we lower our expectations for this offseason and expect something along the lines of Silva, Livan, Colon, etc. What the Mets have to realize nowadays is that the only way to really acquire an ACE is by developing one yourself. Teams just do not give away top notch starters and most are being smart and signing them long term before they reach free agency, i.e. Cubs and Padres. For the few teams that cannot sign pitchers like the A’s, O’s and Twins, they are going to trade them for a strong package of players. This is where minor league drafting and development comes in – Since Frank Cashen left, the Mets have stunk at doing this. As the Braves and A’s have proven over the last few years, a team’s farm system is its lifeline – either by having cheap ultra talented players supplement the major league squad or by using these prospects in trades that will net a star player. The Mets must realize this and until then, this team will continue to struggle to grow because a big checkbook is a nice weapon to have but when the players available to buy are no longer star quality, checks become nothing more then a toilet paper alternative and the Mets are finding this out this offseason.
very thoughtful and no name calling. More posts from you, less from self-appointed geniuses please.
I hope a couple of minor deals get done while waiting for the big ones.
Like sign Mike Lamb. He can play 1st, 3rd and RF. He is LH but hits lefties really well. 1.056 OPS last year.
Go ahead and sign Silva, he is still young and hopefully a switch in leagues will help him out. If nothing else he solidifies the #5 spot and gives room for Pelfrey, Humber, and Mulvey to develop or be traded.
Take a look at Jennings on an incentive based contract. He was not offered arbitration and would not cost a pick.
I would also offer a smaller package to Beane for Harden. No way should we pay the price for Blanton and Haren. Harden is a huge injury risk but if we are not getting an ace anyway, why not take the risk.
Pedro, Maine, Perez, Harden, Silva???? With Elduque and Plefrey still ready???
this scares me:
for instance, to get haren, the Mets may be asked to part with Carlos Gomez or Ryan Church plus Fernando Martinez, along with two pitchers, ranging from John Maine to Aaron Heilman
Not that they get asked, but rather, they might do it!
Maine is following the smae path as Haren, and frankly, there isn’t that much difference right now. You can’t give him up, plus every viable prospect, for potentially a minor upgrade in 1 starting spot. It fills no holes.
I actually hope the big 3 + cabrera get moved quick to get the noise overwith.
What I really want is for Omar to realize he isn’t getting a workable deal for Santana, Haren or Bedard, and make a preemptive strike.
Get a young up and comer (like a Snell) quickly, while the big guns are still in play.
It may take him officially out of the market for those guys (assuming he is actually now in it), but it gets the Mets a solid SP to fill the hole in the rotation.
If he waits until everyone else is gone, the cost sure ain’t coming down!
You make a strong offer to the team of choice (pirates in this case), and make sure they know that many of the chips or on the table for a bigger fish, so bite now or maybe miss out.
If all that fails, just go with what you got, and consider it a transition (not rebuilding) year. You still have the core talent to carry you pretty far, but let the young guys play and see what happens.
No piont in giving the farm away for place holders that would put you over the top.
I completely agree, their are other starters out there. Not just Snell. The Pirates alone have some inning eaters that could be had for lesser packages. As does Texas with Millwood and Padilla or Cleveland with Lee.
I am in agreement with this. I like Snell alot. We are not going to get an ace. I also think we hsould gamble on 2 or more of the pitchers on the market coming off the dl and/or poor years. They are motiviated to prove themselves and it could buy us a year. Colon is a Cy winner, and I think a healthy Lieber is as valuable as a 42 year old Glavine. Clement is a bit more risky as he has only has only truly good year. But I think this is our best option. And I have to say, Minaya has disappointed me. It seems he is craftier when he has no payroll like in Montreal. Give him a big budget and he loses his imagination.
Delgado and Right Field also concern me, though I am not convinced of Milledges value. I think he has tons of raw talent with limited room for growth.
Rubin quoted a baseball official as saying…
“You put Ryan Church or Gomez in place of Milledge in an offer and it might be a more attractive offer.”
hahahahahahahahaha
If the Omar’s not willing to package multiple prospects, then let’s just hang on to them and live and die with them. There’s no point in selling them low.
And there’s certainly no point in making a move for the sake of making a move. If we can’t get Haren, Santana or Bedard, let’s look at shorter contracts or cheap/high risk areas.
Finally, why don’t we go after Miguel Cabrera. He is going to be a dominant hitter for the next 10 years. Teach him to play first base (he might give it a go, as opposed to that half-assed attempt by Piazza), and he can take over Delgado’s spot in 09 (and maybe 08). He’s not a stud ace, but he’s a stud hitter. Why is no one going ga-ga of Miguel Cabrera?He has hit 320+, 114+rbi and 150+ops+ since he was 22yo.
In the meanwhile, we can shore up the pitching staff by acquiring (credit to some other poster) Millwood/Otsuka. Millwood can’t be any worse than Glavine last year. Otsuka’s better than any reliever we have, save for Wagner (maybe). I believe Millwood is signed through 2009. Send them one of our top prospects and a low level one, since we’re taking on Millwood’s contract. I think Otsuka/Millwood instead of Glavine/Pedro adds at least 4-5 more wins.
It’s not the best scenario, but rarely do the Mets pull off the best scenario.
I think Otsuka/Millwood instead of Glavine/Pedro adds at least 4-5 more wins.
That should read Otsuka AND Millwood instead of Glavine AND Pedro adds at least 4-5 more wins.
Bedard is the guy I want. You could even argue him over Santana due to age, etc. And I definitely like Bedard better than Haren.
But looks like “Mr. Autonomy” Minaya is going to strike out…AGAIN.
Minaya “has interest” in every big player out there, but never seems to get one.
Like I have stated b4 ..the line up is already set …and the bench….we will not acquire an ace….so we will be signing 2 of these 4…lohse,silva,colon,livan…..thats all she wrote guys…I just dont see us landing any of the big 3……so it looks like we will have to pull offf a miracle to win the division and make it to the WS…so long Omar , so long Willie… I can see it now “The 2009 Mets in brand new Citifield….the time for change and a championship is now!!!”
Face it guys , We are not going to get any ” BIG NAME PITCHERS ” this year. No one likes our ” so called prospects “.
Ok, this is contrarian I know.
Is the Mets starting pitching as bad as we are saying? Let’s look at it:
- Can we expect similar production from Maine and Perez? I think the answer there is yes.
- Is is reasonable to expect Pedro to replace Glavine’s numbers? I think the answer there is yes. Remember we barely had Pedro last year so a full (contract) year is equal to Glavine.
- Would some combo of El Duque/Pelfrey/Humber or a Colon/Livan equal what the Mets got from their 4 & 5 starters last year? I think it probably would and likely given the natural progression of Pelfrey and Humber be a little better.
So that means the Mets from a pitching standpoint are about the same as last year. Obviously last year turned out not good enough but we are still looking at about a 90-win team and perhaps better if the young pitchers come through and Delgado is able to return to form.
I’m not posting this to say the Mets should stand pat – I’d like a topline starter because it will make a big difference. But I also don’t think that if we fail to get one 2008 is a lost year.
Look forward to comments.
I agree. How about that comment?
Including Maine in a trade for a #1 does no good. Why give up your #2 to get a #1??? Why don’t they let Heilman take a shot as a SP next year? He is MLB proven, has good stuff, was a SP. It seems to me his spot in the bullpen would be easier to fill than another quality arm in the rotation.
Because the Mets are stubborn and Willie is afraid of changes. In reality they should have traded Heilman 2 years ago as an SP for prospects and Bullpen. He’s not going to start on this team.
I feel like you are right. It just doesn’t make much sense does it? Heilman is a MLB proven pitcher and if he prepares as a SP for next season I gotta believe he is as good an option as lots of other names out there? Just need Omar/Willie to admit that they made a mistake. Otherwise he just leaves when he can and someone else gives him the opp.
So who is excited about our rotation….Pedro/Maine/Ollie/ELduque/Pelfrey????
ME ME ME ME ME ME …….GAG!
i am sick of this BS, this BS that church is more valueable than milledge in a trade. it’s a bunch of crap being put out by the Mets pr organization. and if milledge’s value had dropped so much, the mets are the ones responsible for it by making him into a pariah
I think it was just a short-sighted move. At the moment, Church might be better than Milledge. And Schneider, I think, shores up that position. So in the short-term, you have a marginal corner outfielder that you trade for another marginal corner outfielder and a solid defensive catcher. Long-term, I can’t see how it’s the right move (unless Church really can be traded for a good pitcher).
so whats the 2008 slogan going to be?
“the 2008 mets: same product, same results”
I hope you copyrighted that before the Mets did, cuz if you didn’t once they clear Yorvit off their legal calendar their coming after you man!
Offense needs to be upgraded, as I’ve been saying. It needed to be upgraded BEFORE Omar made it worse by replacing LoDuca/Milledge with Schneider/Church. Need to get a better RF than Church. Rowand, Fukudone, etc. Maybe Manny Ramirez will be available (for real) now. This team needs more offense..AND a big pitcher.
But I’m sure Omar will strike out on all of this and add garb*ge like Silva or Lohse or Livan.
Fire him now.
You guys are all ridiculous. You act like Milledge is the second coming of Willie Mayes. Ryan Church can actually hit a breaking ball, and guess what- that makes him better than Milledge. You think Millidge is gonna learn how to do that overnight??? If you do than your the naive one. And unlike any met catcher in at least 10 years- Schneider can actually throw a runner out.
The offense is now better this year than last.
So stop acting like its the end of the world- you sound so stupid.
Exactly. This was a win now move, we traded a prospect with POTENTIAL for 2 everyday players right now.
they are the same bunch that went off when cameron was dealt for that 4th outfielder nady too. now they want nady back. and they pretend to have been for that deal all along as well.
And i can tell you, being in DC, everyone i know (none of whom are nats fans) are making fun of the nats for this trade. Most are calling it the worst defensive outfield in baseball.
i just love how all the omar bashers keep sayin how poorly he drafts and what a terrible eye he has for talent are the same ones who flew off the handle last year at even the possibilty of these prospects being dealt. look in the mirror before you judge someone else.
1 – you DONT include a 0-3 pitcher who won 15 games in Maine for a 3-6 player who is signed for three years..
2 – The A’s are a bunch of poser highway robbers.. they can ask for whatever they want for Haren – he’s NOT going to the Mets anyway.. he’s going to the Santana losers.
3. Bedard and baggage for a package not including Fernando and including Heilman is the way to go..
4. Absorbing the O’s dead weight will trump any deal the Dodgers or Dbacks can put together. (who are the real competition for Bedard)