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…i can’t keep track of Johan Santana any longer…i’m dizzy…
…as of now, from what i can gather, the Yankees are the front 
runners, but the Twins are still holding out for a specific player…basically, if this was the NFL Draft, the Yankees would be on the clock…if they balk, and actually quit by the end of today, as they threatened to do, then it’s up to the Red Sox, who, at that point, should lose all motivation to overpay…i mean, why should the Red Sox part with all of their top prospects if they don’t have to…of course, there are a lot of people who believe that so-called deadline has been a bit overblown…
…so, if the Twins have a specific type of deal they are hoping to get, and they don’t get it, do they give up and keep him for opening day, or do they re-open talks with teams like the Mets and Mariners, who, at that point, may be able to compete again…
I think they would just keep him rather than get less for him than they feel he is worth.
My wacky idea is to have Omar offer Oliver Perez as the centerpiece of a deal for Santana. He will be a FA in a couple of years (and is represented by a member os Boras’ Group) but is established and can win at least 15 games. Add Heilman & Gomez and that’s a solid offer.
No dice, Ollie’s a FA next offseason. Why would the Twins send their ace away for a rental? If anyone from the Mets current rotation has trade value it’s Maine, who isn’t even eligible for arbitration yet.
Good point. So then offer them Maine. I don’t know how Maine wouldn’t be a more desirable pitcher than Hughes or Lester at this point. As much as I’d hate to lose Maine, I’d do it for Santana.
Well Hughes completely dominated every level till he arrived. He could be an ace sooner than later. Maine’s a solid pitcher, but his ceiling is probably more like a #2. I could see a Lester comp, and Maine’s more advanced than Lester, but I think a lot of AL teams are scared of his flyball nature. He gets away with some stuff playing in the NL East that he wouldn’t on AL Team, at least not as often. And I can’t see the Orioles buying him back at triple the cost of what they sold him as.
Billy Beane likes Maine though, I think he’s the only guy who would view Maine’s value in the same way that Omar should. Even with the innings, I like Maine better than Blanton, and Maine hasn’t even reached arbitration yet. But Haren might make sense. I’d hesitate for Santana even, because your adding so much payroll to make a marginal upgrade. But even with Haren, if someone like Sabathia, Bedard, even Santana manages to make it to FA in the next couple years the Mets can pounce, and with Pedro coming off the books (or at least his price going down if he sticks around) your right back where you started with payroll and have an awesome 1-2 punch top of the rotation. You can lock up Ollie for an eternity (if healthy) and still spend a ton of money on a new 1B/LF like Texiera or Dunn. Haren, Pedro, Ollie, Duque, Pelfrey looks like the best rotation in the NL East to me. Its a much more balanced rotation than 2007. You don’t have to rely on the back of the rotation to give you a ton of innings, you can get plenty from Haren and Ollie. Anytime Pedro and Duque make it to the 7th its just gravy, most of the bullpen had the previous night off. And if Pelf’s first few starts don’t go well and you wanna spell the pen you can just stretch Haren out.
I think we need to view 2007 as the Mets version of what happened to the Red Sox in 2006, when they had the lead going into the stretch and the Yankees won like 10 straight against them and Manny wimped out. The Sox made improvements, and were the best team in baseball the following season. Their prospects came up, and now they’re in a position to get even better.
I do not think that is so wacky. That is actually a good idea. I think if you offer the Twins Maine/Perez (their pick) + Gomez + Heilman/Pelfrey/Humber/Mulvey (again, their pick) that is definitely a solid offer. I would do it. What’s wacky are any proposals involving Reyes. Both Perez and Maine are proven ML pitchers and postseason performers. Why wouldn’t they at least be equal to a Hughes. IMO, each is more valuable than Hughes.
they won’t take Perez - he costs too much . And Omar would be plain dumb to trade a cheap top of the rotation pitcher like Maine. Even for Santana - who he’s have to pay 20 plus mil to.
I disagree. I think one of the remaining pitchers — Mulvey, Pelfrey or Humber can replicate Maine’s numbers eventually. And you’d still have Perez left. He’s schizophrenic, but he’s still an overall good pitcher who has excelled in the postseason.
I would offer up Maine in a heartbeat if it got us Santana.
then you dont value Maine highly..
But he was our best pitcher last year, he’s 26 and not even arb eligible and he has proven stones in the playoffs.
that is very very valuable.. he’s near as valuable to the Mets as Verlander is to Detroit.
To the contrary. I value Maine more than Perez. But neither is perfect. Maine loses focus too, is inconsistent, and has stamina issues. It’s anyone’s guess whether he will get to the next level. I would say 50-50.
Verlander has better stuff than Maine and has been a better major league performer who has reached 200 innings. Maine has never done that. Verlander is two years younger. He is valued more highly than Maine.
Saving money on a pitcher like Maine is less important than getting that bonafide ace.
if you read my post I said Maine is near as valuable TO THE METS as Verlander is to the Tigers.
I made no comparison of Maine to Verlander.
but Verlander threw 201.7 innings last year to Maine’s 191 - so its hardly a blow out comparison . I agree in the open market Verlander is surely more valuable than Maine.
But Maine is the Mets Verlander.
Young
Controllable
Playoff Stones
Regular Season stopper
If Maine continues to progress odds are good he’ll be an all star in 2008. he’s surely among the top young pitchers int he NL and could in fact be an Ace.
to give up Maine AND Gomez AND Heilman AND 20+ mil a year for 6 or more years is highway robbery
If Maine is not as good as Verlander, I don’t know how he can be as valuable to the Mets as Verlander is to the Tigers, especially since the Mets have another young accomplished starter and the Tigers don’t and the Mets are a big market team with fewer budgetary concerns. The fact that Perez will make probably $8 or $9 million more than Verlander over the next few years is peanuts for a big market team like the Mets.
Maine has the potential to get to the next level. But that is no sure thing. He could also regress or stagnate. It may be that he will never have the stamina to reach 200 innings consistently year after year. Even at his best, I don’t think he will ever be a bonafide ace. I predict at best he’ll be a solid #2 year after year which is still good. But not an ace like Santana. (That doesn’t mean Maine will never have ace-like years; just that they will be rare and the exception.)
I don’t think Maine + Gomez + Heilman is highway robbery at all. Not for Santana. You still have Perez, F-Mart, plus Pelfrey, Humber, and Mulvey left in the system.
Perez will make oddles more dough than Verlander and Maine over the next three years.. Verlander is locked up thru 2009 at 1 mil per year.. he is still a 0-3 pitcher like Maine is..
Perez is 2nd time arb eligible this year and is set to be a FA in 2009 and he has Boras as an Agent. (mike Fisclin who is part of Boras’s Agency)
Twins have Bonderman who has similar tenure as Perez and can be considered the same level of pitcher in terms of Age and accomplishment.
Temas dont value an Oliver Perez as high as a John Maine because of his tenure and free agency date (not to mention his inconsistency)
So you too would trade a solid number two pitcher who is controllable for 5 more years, your best set up man (or potentially another teams lock down stopper) and your most ready and arguably your best positional prospect for the priviledge of paying ONE PITCHER 22 plus million a year for 6 years (five of which he will be over 30)?
Id rather take my chances with Maine
No way you give up Ollie. The Twins need to trade him, otherwise they get nothing for him when he becomes a FA. BUt that doesn’t mean they can’t wait till next years trading deadline, however that puts Twins ownership at a disadvantage and will most likey get less then than they can get now.
He will be traded and has stated that he likes the Sox, Yanks & Mets. Ownership likes the Yanks & Sox prospects more but they are already talking smack about the Yanks. IF the Yanks drop out, the Sox will reduce their bid b/c they don’t need Santana; they are more interested in preventing the Yanks from getting him and vice versa. If that happens who’s left? The Mets & Mariners and the buzz is that Johan wants to come to the NL due to the softer lineups and he likes to hit.
Its a longshot, but it is possible.
As others have pointed out, they wouldn’t want Ollie anyway. He’ll be a FA after this year and someone said he’s represented by an agent associated with Boras (I don’t know if this is true). They’d want Maine. And I’d give him up if got us Santana.
Agreed, but not if it costs us F-mart & Gomez as well. Plus Maine is RHP, and we need at least two lefties in our Rotation which is why you can’t give up Ollie. I like Maine too, but if you can get Johan I can’t see how you don’t make that move. Then you fill the gaps with a Livan/Silva/Colon/Pelfry
If Minaya is going to offer Maine, he better do it fast for Johan. I don’t deal Maine for anyone except him. I don’t trade him for Bedard/Haren.
Personally, I prefer to keep Maine as he’s not as wild and inconsistent as Perez. But give them the choice. And you have to offer up at least Gomez or F-Mart too. Again give them the choice. It would be 3 players:
*Maine (or Perez)
*Gomez (or F-Mart)
*Heilman (or Mulvey, Pelfrey or Humber)
That sounds very fair to me. I wonder if Omar has even offered them Maine and Perez yet.
id honestly rather do Reyes straight up for Santana than include maine in another package of Major jeague talent and top prospects.
I wouldnt trade Reyes with any package under any circumstances.
Maine should be as near untouchable as Wright at this point
I wouldn’t trade Reyes straight up for any pitcher and few position players.
what position player besides Jimmy Rollins?
just kidding
much as I love reyes.. you can win a world series with an average shortstop..
id trade him for five current starting pitchers and maybe five other position players..
no one should be untouchable
Reyes should be an untouchable, even given his 2nd half slide.
Wow, I’d love to see those 5 pitchers.
How are you getting on me for wanting to trade Maine for Santana, when you want to deal Reyes?
You can win a rotation with a mediocre rotation: see ‘06 Cardinals. You can also win a WS with a solid overall rotation: see Late 90’s Yanks & ‘05 White Sox.
Baseball 101, you do not trade everyday players for pitchers.
for a lot of reasons off the field and to the fans you are probably right.
what if he his 270 this year with 10 homers and 55 SB while slugging 750?
he suddenly doesnt look like a top 10 ML shortstop/.
Right. I can play this game too. What if Maine goes out and goes 10-9 with a 4.50 ERA?
This has nothing to do with off the field or Reyes being a Met or whatever other nonsense the front office considers.
This is a pure baseball analysis. You do not trade 24 year old All Star shortstops who have done nothing but improve in each season of his big league career. The second half of last season will be viewed as a hiccup on this kid’s Hall of Fame plaque.
Not to mention that hitters are much more predictable than pitchers and contribute daily.
you know reyes making the AS team had everything to do with playing in NY and very little to do with his on field play.
And he regressed last year. If not for his April/May everyone would be saying what happened to Jose Reyes..his attitude in the second half puts him on notice with me.
I hope you are right about his Hall of Fame plaque but I hope this isnt another case of NY Fans and Media overvaluing their players..
What are you talking about? He most certainly did make the team for his on field play. It had nothing to do with him being in NY.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2872977
I am just completely at a loss how you can say we’re overvaluing him. He’s 24 years old! Look at his stats! He improves every year! Ok, he had a bad second half… so now we want to deal him?
Riddle me this… if he duplicated his first half, are you trading Reyes?
article was written in May of 2007 after he hit like 350 for Arpril..
Reyes is a top 5 NL Shortstop when he is on his game and performing at his best.. when he is performing like he did in the 2nd half he is not a top ten.
Im not hot to deal him.. Im just saying.. if he hit 330 all year stole 100 bases and won the MVP then of course he’s more valuable.. but he didnt. he hit 280 and showed some bad habits in the second half. not just September but the WHOLE second half.
Look, I like Reyes.. dont get me wrong. But if the Twins came to me ans said Johan for Reyes straight up id have to consider.
I think Maine, Humber, Gomez is a much higher price than Reyes alone. Shortstops and leadoff hitters you can find.. lock down starters (esp. those that are young and controllable) are not.
i actually hate hank more then i hated george already. what a pompous moron. anyways, im sure they’re full of crap just like they were with arod. if the yankees do pull it though the twins would be smart to keep him because as you said the sox deal will drop tremendously
Hank seems like the physical manifestation of Yankee Entitlement. He makes my skin crawl.
Mike and Mike were kissing his big, fat behind this AM. Does everyone at ESPN get free Skankee tickets and a signed baseball by Roger the Rocket? Or a signed bat? I know he gets them confused.
After the yanks self imposed deadline passes tonite johan personally reaches out to haggling hank directly and the yanks give up cano, hughes and ian kennedy and sign JS to a 7 year 200 mil contract
good one…
sorry they killed you, Biggie
LA Cops man.. LA Cops..
Im still alive and living in Bermuda..
dont tell anyone.
You really changed your opinions drastically, didn’t you mr. Smalls?
First you were all for Bedard or Haren, but apparently you want to give up Maine and more, which makes no sense at all, for Santana.
huh?
im on the anti Maine and pieces for Santana bandwagon .. Squad and Vcarver and ready to deal off our young quality pitching.
did you mean
I WONT give up Maine for Santana?>
Ef the A’s on Haren and Ill get creatie for Bedard if Angelos stays out of it..
Santana updates are pointless, as are Bedard or Haren updates. It is NOT happening. Not Omar’s fault, at this point. The Mets just don’t have any ML ready pitchers that aren’t already in the rotation. If Pelfrey’s good, let him show us. In fact, let him be so good that we don’t want to trade him.
What if we dealt Gomez, Church, Heilman, Humber and Estrada?
It works out on many levels for the O’s. It allows them to deal Ramon Hernandez, have Markakis and Church in the outfield, a nice combo, a nice new force from the bullpen in Heilman and a young starter with a nice curve in Humber.
We could sign any of Bradley, Hinske or Fukudome to start it right,
done ..except for the Milton Bradley part.
i still think mike pelfrey is going to be a number 2 starter.
Think its bad this offseason? Wait until next year when we’ll need a LF and a 1B. Think Omar has plans for that? LOL. GM’s will be bending Omar (if, Godforbid, he still here) over the proverbial barrel.
At this point, do a bit of overpaying to get Silva or one of the guys on that tier, then you can relax a little bit knowing you won’t get completely shut out this week. You then can focus on the pen and keep up the focus on another starter. I agree that adding a cheap but vaulable major league starter like Oliver Perez to some prospects if it gets us ahead of the pack to get Bedard or similar, then it’s worth it.
who wants to look at Silva pitch 500 ball for 4 or 5 years at 10 or 12 mil a year?
I’d rather watch that than 250 innings of Livan’s 5 era. Seriously though I don’t understand why so many people are so down on Silva. Sure, he’s not a star, but he’s not garbage either. He’s been good for around 200 innings of league average performance. He’s also 28, and so should be around his prime. Given a move to the NL, he could even be a bit above average. Personally, I’d take consistent league average production out of the 5th spot in the rotation any day. Sure, you’ll have to pay more than he’s really worth in dollars, but at least he won’t cost any prospects and he’s young enough that he should continue to perform decently through the life of his contract. Sure I’d rather we trade for an ace, but in comparison to the other free agent options, Silva seems like the best choice. He’s been better than Lohse over his career and unlike Livan, isn’t on the wrong side of 30 and in consistent decline over the last 4 years. I wouldn’t mind Colon on the cheap, but that’d just be taking a flier on him, not something we could count on to fill a hole in the rotation.
livan would be a one / two year piece at best..and i wouldnt be crazy about it
Colon wouldnt get past the Burrito stand outside Shea.. no thanks.
Silva wants big $$ for 4 or five years.
AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!! (Exorcist head spinning)
make it stop…
Everyone is saying the Mets were right not to sign Zito for 7 years. While it was a terrible deal for the Giants, Zito would have been a better solution for the Mets. The Mets can afford to pay Zito and still make a run at another player.
With Zito the Mets get 2-3 extra wins and hold onto the division (even in his off year) and there is no colapse. After losing to either a “hot” Colorado or a better Boston team, no one would be devastated. They could argue away 2007 as a transition year for Zito and that he’d bounce back (he probably will).
This year the team would “bank” on 3 million tickets sold and would boast the first time in franchise history having won back to back divisions. They could rightly claim that the team was “one player away.”
The Mets would have Zito for 6 years and this offseason we’d taking about an impact player (position or pitcher) that could put the Mets over the top.
That’s what I’m sayin’ about Omar. He’s lost that lovin’ feelin’.
Last year we could’nt do Zito for all these reasons. This yaer we can’t do a trade for all these reasons.
Can’t do. Can’t do. Does that work at your job?
wut is funny is the mets arent even getting bedard now. watch the mariners get him
http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/mariners/2007/12/03/next_seattle_pursues_lefty_erik_bedard
The Mariners have just about no expendable talent, outside of Clement and Morrow.
Clement may be good, but Morrow is still a bit far from the majors. He was in relief for all of last year, and Adam Jones is already set to be their Opening Day rightfielder.
Really wouldn’t count them as much competition. Heilman, Gomez and Church would make a more compelling offer than pretty much anything the M’s can afford to give up.
Omar is creative and a tireless worker. I highly doubt he leaves these meetings empty handed. I am not saying we get Santana, Bedard or Haren by weeks end. Nor I am thinking he signs Colon, Dotel, Livan or someone like that be weeks end…(which he might).
What I am saying is that he improves the starting rotation by the end of this week with someone likely off our radar screen.
We are going to all of a sudden hear that the METS have traded Gomez , Nathan Vineyard and Humber for AJ Burnett.
Then we will look at each other and say…huh. Where the hell did that come from? I haven’t been hearing Burnett.
He is a good WHIP guy, nice era, thorws gas, former farmhand etc. Durability questions and bad contract but well it only cost Gomez etc and we move on.
It may not be Burnett but I use him as an example.
Can’t wait to see what he lands. Further, Omar is the kind of guy not to let a deal simmer. He takes the flame all the way up and if he does not get it to boil immediately, he moves over to another flame
Minaya plays it close to the vest. I think he may get someone that is off the radar.
Give him time.
You make a good point. What if Minaya walks over to Bill Smith and says to him. “Look, do you really want Santana staying in the AL with the prospect of having to face him in the playoffs? How about we forget about deadlines and all of these games. We’ll send over John Maine, Carlos Gomez, and Kevin Mulvey for Johan.”
For a long time I was against trading Maine, but when I think about it, it’s probably the smart move. This would give the Mets a rotation of Johan, Pedro, Ollie, Duque, and Pelfrey.
Most importantly, in my opinion, we would be able to hold onto Pelfrey and Humber, both of whom I think can still pan out. Pelfrey is still only 24 and still has good stuff and a great windup. Humber is in his second season back from Tommy John surgery, usually it is the 2nd year back when you start to see a pitcher come back to form.
Anyone thinking that perhaps Minaya is sitting back and letting the Yanks and Sox slug it out, only to call the Twins back and offer Maine?
I think it’s more likely that Omar includes Reyes in a deal. Why else would he sign Castillo? It’s a fact that Reyes’ attitude and production went down when Castillo came aboard. It’s also known that Castillo likes to stay out at clubs until the wee hours of the morning (even before 1pm games). I’m not suggesting Reyes would hang out with Castillo (as others have) but the correlation between attitude and production certainly exist with Reyes and Castillo’s presence.
If he deals Reyes he should go for a catscan.
I’d almost prefer to offer Maine for Haren. We know Billy Beane likes him, and we’re not adding a ton of payroll. But I’d consider it for Santana too. The value of all those innings is enormous on bullpens, and he and Pedro would make a formidable top two.
Look, you deal Maine for Santana and suddenly our rotation is very similar to the Sox’ rotation last year:
Johan, Pedro, Perez, Duque, Pelfrey
Beckett, Schilling, Dice-K, Wakefield, Lester, et al.
Ace, Old Warhorse, Talented Enigma, Innings Eater, Young Gun.
Granted, Duque isn’t much of an innings eater, but everything else is pretty close. If we could land Johan and sign Livan on the cheap, he becomes the innings eater, Duque slides to #5, and Pelfrey is stashed at AAA as insurance against Duque or Pedro going down.
Heard all of it.
Highly probable scenario is El duque gets injured, Pelfrey sucks, Pedro doesn’t last long, and no one is similar to Tim Wakefield in any way.
Imagine having a September rotation of Pelfrey. Humber. Mulvey, Perez and Santana as a possibility and then tell me if trading Maine was worth it.
That’s an awful pessimistic viewpoint. I don’t see how it’s highly probable that Pelfrey sucks.
Anyway, I’m not even totally for trading Maine. But if we do trade someone on the active roster for Santana, he’s the likely candidate.
Anyway, say we hold tight and your doomsday scenario unfolds. That means we have rotation of Maine, Perez, Pelfrey, Humber, and Mulvey. Tell me you wouldn’t like having Santana at the top as opposed to Maine.
Truth be told, I wanted the Mets to go with youth. I wanted Milledge in RF, Gotay at 2b, and Pelfrey in the rotation. I didn’t want to give up the farm for anybody. Minaya went for it in ‘06 and ‘07 and it didn’t work out. Better to play out his hand with this team and then work hard to sign Tex and C.C. for ‘09.
My scenario involves GETTING BEDARD for Gomez, Church, Heilman, Humber and Estrada. If we were desperate I’d even add Gotay.
El duque would be a bullpen hand.
Bedard, Maine, Perez, Mulvey and Pelfrey isn’t so bad now is it?
I don’t exactly have an excel spreadsheet of all the Metsbloggers preferred trade scenarios, so sorry about that.
Anyway, that’s an awful lot to give up for Bedard, a guy who’s had TJ surgery, had some injury issues last season, and isn’t Johan, who is as close to a sure thing as there is.
My question to you is, under your scenario, who plays RF?
Man, and Biggie got on me for dealing our best pitcher, position prospect, and pitching prospect for Johan. You’re dealing our RF, best setup man, best position prospect, a former 1st round pick whose value is low now, and estrada (ok, no qualms there), AND you’ll throw in Gotay to sweeten an already Hersheyesque pot?
I think I’m cool with Pedro, Ollie, Maine, Duque, and Pelfrey… with Freddy Garcia joining us mid year.
I don’t like dealing all these prospects in one big deal. It kind of leaves us in a rough spot if we need to deal in season. We have no idea how the season will turn out. I’d almost prefer to gamble with what we have and if necessary beef up at the deadline.
Church and Gomez for Bedard is a bit steep.. But Fernando is the real prospect and right fielders who bat 7th can be found anywhere (look at Shawn Greene)
if we include Church AND Gomez Id have to have Melvin Mora as a salary dump to play right field (which the O’s may think is an advantage)
Mora is owed 17 mil over the next two years and has negative value in a trade
squad.. Duque and Pelf in the back of the rotation is a potential disaster.. Not to mention Skitzo OP.. what if he goes postal?
The blog keeps eating my posts..
i thought baseball 101 was pitching wins.
Here are five pitchers Id trade Reyes straight up for
Brandon Webb
CC Sabathia
Justin Verlander
Josh Beckett
Johan Santana
But what about the days when those guys don’t pitch? Reyes gives you a chance to win every day.
Yeah, you need pitching to win, but remember:
San Diego, Atlanta, Minnesota, Blue Jays, Tigers, Oakland, Dodgers, and Orioles all have “Aces’ and the Padres and Braves have two of them at the front end of their respective rotations. Braves finished 3rd, Padres didn’t make the postseason. Tigers probably have the best rotation in baseball other than the Angels… they missed the playoffs.
I find it funny that we’re all clamoring for an ace while the 3 teams dangling them didn’t even make the playoffs.
If you offered Reyes to any of those teams for those pitchers I bet the other team falls over themselves to make the deal.
Beckett may be the only one who is different, because he has proven that he is unbeatable in October… and while we can scream small sample size all day long, the Red Sox can’t deal him.
Plus pitching is so volatile. Beckett was shelled two seasons ago. Johan was down this year and CC got bombed in the playoffs. Verlander wasn’t too hot this year either.
so you’d give up our best pitcher, our best positional prospect and arguably our best pitching prospect and 7 years and 165 million for an over 30 year old pitcher who very well could blow out his arm or be “volatile” (like he was last year)
I didn’t say I would do it, and it all depends on how the Mets view these players.
And best is a very subjective word. I mean and this is more of a semantics argument than anything, but still…
My main point is that Reyes isn’t (or at least shouldn’t) be going anywhere. And really, neither should Maine. I just try to look at all the angles.
Personally, I don’t really want to trade our prospects. For various reasons, I think both Pelfrey and Humber can still pan out.
OK .. top two starters, top two positional prospects and top two pitching prospect.
and as you yourself said up higher.. when you have a big dog lock down ace it makes every other pitcher and matchup better..
So i drop Reyes for Sabathia, Beckett, Verlander, Webb of Santana and I make my WHOLE rotation better.. which could have a larger impact than Reyes batting 5 times a game and getting thrown out 80% of the time he tries to steal
Mets should just trade every single one of their sucky prospects for Santana. If you can’t match the Yankees/Red Sox quality, at least surpass them in quantity. Hey, a couple of them have to turn out good. Might as well get the best pitcher in baseball in exchange.
OMG, Jim Duquette is on Mets hot stove right now. lmao, he is pretty brave to be here.
yea they should ask him if the mets should try 2 get kazmir
omar just said “we are a better team today than we were at this time last year”
??????????????
‘07 ‘08
LoDuca > Schneider
Delgado > Delgado
Valentin < Castillo
Wright < Wright
Reyes = Reyes
Alou = Alou
Beltran = Beltran
Green < Church
Maine < Maine
Ollie < Ollie
Glavine < Pedro
Duque = Duque
Pelfrey < Pelfrey
For the anticipated rebuttals: Maine, Ollie, Pedro, and Pelfrey are all better this year than their counterparts from ‘07. LoDuca was better at this time last year (in our minds) than Schneider is this season. Church is better than Green and Castillo is better than Valentin (although this somewhat a matter of taste.) Alou, Reyes, and Beltran I still view in the same light. Delgado is obviously downgraded, Wright upgraded.
One unknown is whether or not Schneider’s rep for handling a pitching staff is real and whether or not it translates to the Mets’ staff. If it is and it does, and if as I suspect part of the problem this year was Lo Duca’s game calling, then I think Schneider’s impact can be more beneficial than will show up in his stats. The whole pitching staff *could* benefit.
Can we please stop with all of this negativity. Look we essentially have the same team as last year, which by the way everyone expected to go the World Series. We might be even better then last year with a healthy Pedro, Sanchez, Delgado, Also Maine, Perez, Pelfrey have one full year in Peterson’s system so they can get better. Reyes and Wright can only get better and also we finally have a very good defensive catcher. And also most importantly we got rid of the two guys we wanted to get rid of the most this offseason in Glavine and Mota. Now I’ll give you the Milledge being a bad trade and might really hurting us in the long run, but who knows, maybe Milledge caused some problems in the clubhouse that helped with the Mets free-fall. I am confident that this team will at LEAST make the playoffs if the season started today. So lets just clam ourselves down, take a deep breath, and look at things more clearly.
put down the crap pipe “huge met fan”
Yeah, and whatever you’re taking isn’t the “wrightstuff”
Go to college and don’t smoke weed there bud.
So you honestly think that if we went into the season with the team we had today we had no chance at making the playoffs?
Hey Til, you want some of my “wrightstuff”???? sounds like it
I’m fine with my Liberal Arts education, no experience of drug use, including nicotine and alcohol, good paying job, stake in Def Jam records and upper-middle class life in NY, thank you very much.
good boy
i dont take any drugs either but i do have a few shots of rum from time to time. I just figured i’d comment back to you since you always feel the need to reply to my posts!
For anyone not in the NY area, SNY just had Duquette on their Mets hot stove show. He had the nerve to say the Nats came out ahead in the Milledge trade. Now whether or not they did is debatable. But the point is here is the man who traded Kazmir for Zambrano and if he thinks the Milledge deal was lopsided, what does he think of his own judgment in the Kazmir trade :?:
Even if you are against the Milledge trade, I don’t know how anyone can say it was worse than the Kazmir one.
Duquette should be selling time shares in Venezuela..
More like George Forman Grills door-to-door
Pedro is on right now..
he needs to stop the interviews and get in the Gym.. hes got a spare tire that could be used on a Semi
I saw Pedro too. It cracks me up when he says he wanted to run on the field and grab the ball from Mota during the 2006 NLCS. He doesn’t look out of shape to me.
As for Duquette, is he even qualified to sell time shares in Venezuela?
yeah he seems to have put some weight around his mid. i loved how he said he wishes he could’ve taken mota’s place and thrown that change up in the 2006 nlcs.
Duquette was the patsy for the Kazmir deal. It boggles the mind how many Mets fans still buy the Duquette = 100% scapegoat myth. In fact with all the cooks in the kitchen piping in on that deal (Jeff Wilpon, Rick Peterson, Al Leiter, John Franco), Duquette was probably the only guy wanting to nix that deal. You gotta blame someone though. It might as well be the puppet GM.
Marty Nobel has a great Mail Bag today:
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/content/printer_friendly/nym/y2007/m12/d03/c2315982.jsp
He is dead on regarding the Millege trade.
What happened with Omar holding court at 5:30? I guess he didn’t report a mega trade.
When did he say he’d do that?
Matt said it somewhere in on the blog.
Delcos just posted this on his blog:
Thanks to Pedro. However, it is worse than it was last week.
that had better be Omar posturing, because if he believes that, he should be fired on the spot for baseball ignorance.
Is it Lima time yet?
Shall we brace ourselves for Colon and Livan?
The team probably is better than at the beginning of last season. Or at lest it is if you account for what Delgado gave you, not what he expected!
Nady + 1 solid middle rotation pitcher with upside (like Snell) is all they really need right now, assuming you aren’t going with a complete tear down. Plenty good enough to win the NL crown.
Oh, and sort out the pen, but that probably can’t happen to ST, unless some player falls into their lap.
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Maybe he throws a no-hitter, too.
I don’t see two holes: Johan, Pedro, Ollie, Duque, Pelfrey.
Minaya has already stated that Duque is in the rotation.
I think Pelfrey will be ready to become the 5th starter this year. I still think he can be a top of the rotation guy. He’s the same kind of guy Minaya targets on other teams… he’s not dealing him, unless he’s getting an ace back himself.
Even if you don’t view Pelfrey as a viable candidate, that only leaves one spot.
Johan is obviously waaay better than Maine. But how many more wins will he provide than Maine would and how many more wins would Maine have provided over whoever replaces him.
Maine for Johan makes us more “star-studded” but I don’t think it improves the team all that much.
Wins are the worst metric to measure a pitcher by.
Johan’s ERA+ last year was 130. John Maine: 109. And those are neutralized stats (if I’m not mistaken).
If you’re still not convinced, Johan pitched in the AL Central, one of the toughest divisions in baseball. Bring him over to the NL East where there isn’t a DH and trust me, he would have won over 20 games.
Not to mention the effect his innings have on the pen. He threw 219 last year to Maine’s 191… seems small, but that’s about 30 less innings on your pen. Not to mention it bumps everyone down in the rotation. Now Ollie P. is facing other team’s 3rd starter. How many times did we line up Glavine v. Smoltz last season?
Maine had a pretty good first season. I wouldn’t doubt that he could get the Mets 17-20 wins in his prime, all talent aside. For once I agree with Wolverine. Trading Maine would be counterproductive.
Maine stays.. its one of the things Omar did right.
He should stay. I would much prefer to land Haren or Bedard for prospects than to trade Maine for Santana.
I’m just saying if we revisit Santana, the player who is most likely to go and “should” go is Maine, not Reyes.
Reyes and Wright are both franchise players. You don’t deal franchise players.
just look at teh free agent market .. Lock down starters w ho you can roll out there every fifth day and give you a good chance to win are the most valuable commodity.
If Reyes and Wright are Franchise players Maine certainly is too.
Just because we got him in a heist from the O’s and Reyes/Wright came up thru the farm doesnt make him expendable.
You were right earlier.. Would the Tigers trade Verlander , and their two best peices for Santana? would the Indians trade Carmona and two valuable parts?
of course not.. Because having a young, ace is worth more than gold. Why do you think the Sox are balking at Bucholz? and the Yanks with Joba?
But Maine isn’t a lock down starter.
If you threw all the players back into a pool, Reyes and Wright go first round, easy. And I bet they’re picked way before John Maine.
Maine was our best pitcher last year for long stretches.
He showed some serious stones in the 2006 playoffs.,
did he tire down the stretch? yes.. but he never got close to 190 innings before.
Maine has the mental makeup and stuff to be a lock down Starter.. he was probably the one pitcher last year that you consistently had some confidence in when he pitched.
He won 15 games for this team and was one of the best pitchers in the league in the first half.
plus he comes dirt cheap for the next 3 plus years.