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…i’m sensing two schools of thought coming from Team Omar in Nashville…the first, trade any player short of David Wright and Jose Reyes to get O’s RHP Erik Bedard or A’s RHP Dan Haren…or, instead, split up their prospects, add a 
major leaguer or two, and try to acquire two mid-level pitchers, like A’s RHP Joe Blanton as well as Reds RHP Bronson Arroyo, who will earn $25 million over the next three seasons…
…frankly, i’m not sure the Mets have the horses to get two of anything, but i do like the idea of splitting aces and trying to add two mid-range starting pitchers, along side John Maine and Oliver Perez…that could be a nice, young group, under contract, for the next few years…
…personally, i still believe the Mets will have to eventually settle for overpaying to get just one guy like arroyo or blanton, let alone acquire both…
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Arroyo? Please, I’d rather throw in the towel and let Pelfrey get 30 starts.
+1 No way on Arroyo… Don’t overpay for Blanton…
I hope they have the chips to go for one prize SP (be it Johan, Bedard or Haren).
I am not impressed in the slightest by Blanton, and Arroyo has his moments but is nothing special. Besides the Reds want to add more pitching, not trade it away.
Haren VS Blanton.
There’s really not that big of a difference in production b/w Haren and Blanton. Both our solid. Depending on cost, I would love to add Blanton if Haren isn’t affordable.
Both are about the same age.
Name Wins losses ERA IP Hits BB/K WHIP
Haren 15 9 3.07 227.7 214 55/192 1.208
Blanton 14 10 3.95 230 240 40/140 1.217
There is a world of difference in physical talent.
Matt,
Did Arroyo’s name pop up somewhere, or are you just providing an example?
C’mon Matt, Blanton and Arroyo aren’t number 2s, even on the Mets!
PS: You mean you like the idea of splitting prospects, not splitting aces. Mets lack a single ace, nevermind two,
LOL…”mid-range”. that’s more descriptive, if still a tad generous.
For these guys, why not spend just $$$ for the Silvas/Livans of the world.
There is a world of difference between Silva (ok) and Livan (miserable). But I agree with your point. If the Mets cant markedly improve there pitching situation then it makes no sense to trade guys like Gomez or, especially, the pitchers (Pelfrey, Humber).
I think Blanton is a better option than Silva but the question is, at what cost? I’d hate to lose Gomez for Blanton.
Arroyo is a number 2 alright….if you know what I mean.
I thought he meant splitting aces, like in blackjack.
It doesnt look like we have the chips to add another ace starter, not with competition from teams with superior farm systems (read everyone). We will have to overpay for anyone we try to pick up, including the joe blantons of the world.
go for bedard. period. we need a lefty ace.
(and dont forget miggy)
lefty ace sounds great.
miggy? as in miguel cabrera? yes, throw the kitchen sink at the marlins for cabrera.
he’s going to win 2 mvp’s in his career. Nostradamus has spoken.
May have meant Miguel Tejada.
Im all about “hope for the best, prepare for the worst”
That’s the Mets motto.
yea but its more of “hope for the best…end up with the worst”
You have to stop using the phrase ‘overpaying.’ This is the pitching market. If every team in baseball with resources to spend on pitching is willing to package multiple prospects for a single good starting pitcher then by definition that is the market. Its not like one team is hoarding all of these guys.
Pitching wins. Especially in a short series. The best pitchers are not coming to the market (eg, Oswalt, Peavy, Zambrano, Santana). So, unless you can develop your own, you have to give up prospects and pay huge salary to get this increasingly rare commodity.
So, in my view, if the Mets dont have what it takes to get Haren, Santana or Bedard then they have to bite the bullet and make a deal for a lesser light, like Blanton. Going into the season with El Duque pencilled into the rotation again is a recipe for another disaster.
I agree. But I’d rather get Bedard or Haren over Blanton (I guess thats obvious.) Throw the farm at them, we need #1 guy. plain and simple. If we add an ace a rotation of Haren/Bedard, Maine, Perez, and Pedro is very intriguing.
Blanton isn’t a terrible fall back option…He had about a 4ish era last season, which would translate roughly to a 3.5era. If that was the only move, he would slot in at #4, behind Pedro, Maine, and Perez….IMO thats a pretty good rotation..maybe no pure ’shutdown ace’, but rather one made up of 2’s and 3’s, and the front three are capable of shutting down a lineup any time they toe the rubber. Obviously Bedard would be the first choice, but I wouldn’t mind addind Blanton if all else fails. Then, you have the option of taking a flier on a guy like Colon, or Garcia, otherwise you play it safe and slot in Livan in #5..that gives us:
Pedro
Maine
Perez
Blanton
El Duque/Pelfrey/Livan/Colon
Again, you may not have the shut down guy, but its a solid 1-5. Compare with the other guys in the division:
Smoltz
Hudson
Glavine
?
?
Hamels
Myers
?
?
?
IMO, The Mets will be in pretty good shape.
Sign Silva and trade for a #3 starter to pitch in the #4 role. Dosen’t that make us better? Again, you think that Texas would not trade Millwood/Otsuka for prospects?
Even throw a couple of low level prospects for Daniel Cabrerra. I don’t want to hear how he sucks, he is still better than some of the other options and is still young. Maybe Peterson can fix him, if not then Pelfrey or Elduque takes his place .
Assuming we don’t have enough chips to outbid others for Haren or Bedard (which is looking lilkely), I think you pose a good fallback. Blanton looks to me on a par with Perez and Maine, giving us three stropng #3 types. Signing Silva would cost no trade chips for a solid #5, allowing us to put El Duque in the pen (and be a spot starter if someone goes down) and Pelfrey in the pen (which seems his best use, at least till/if he develops a second pitch). That’s a deeper staff than we had last year.
I like the idea of going out and getting Blanton and another mid rotation guy like Arroyo. The bottom line is that we can’t bid with a lot of the other teams out there looking for pitchers. While Blanton and Arroyo might not be 2’s…Maine and Perez aren’t exactly 3’s and 4’s in a rotation either. We would have a solid core of 4 SP’s that can eat up innings, relieve the pen and keep us in games. I think that might be the best way to go rather than giving up everybody to get Bedard, whose an injury reliability anyway.
Pedro
Blanton
Maine
Arroyo
Perez
looks good to me…
The mets rotation as it stands has 3 guys all capable of winning over 15 games next year. Pedro, Ollie, and Maine all should win 15 plus next year. It’s time for met fans to wake up and realize this team was poised for a deep run into the playoffs went into a mental tailspin and wrecked. An offseason of preparaion and distance from last season combined with a pickup of the silva/blanton/livan group and any kind of pickup to the bullpen is what Omar should be focusing on for the Winter Meetings. Give humber and pelfry another season to turn it around and if we can’t get bullpen help do what every “scout” or “executive” has been saying and turn Pelfry into a middle reliever. The mets are not going to get bedard or haren, period.
In addition to the usual speal about pitching, Heyman says the Mets might have interest in Nady!
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/12/03/monday.scoop/index.html
Omar should do it if only to get back in the good graces of the readers at metsblog by making a trade we’ve already approved of.
and the readers at metsblog know so much. thats why omar was ripped just like this last deal when he traded cameron for nady 2 years ago.
Yeah, I wasn’t being totally serious, though I would like to see the Mets look into Nady for rf platoon/1b backup/alou’s caddy when he inevitably hits the dl. Just nice to see Omar and the fans on the same page every once in a while given some of the rabid criticism.
There is absolutely no reason for the Mets to trade for two mid-level guys….for that, go out and sign Silva and Livan. Can you honestly tell me that there is a big difference between
Pedro
Maine
Perez
Silva
Livan
and
Pedro
Maine
Perez
Blanton
Arroyo
The Mets would be much better off signing the two free agents and saving their chips in the hopes that someone becomes available at midseason. If the Mets trade for two mid-level guys now, they will have absolutely nothing left.
Guys we are not getting one of these “aces”, and frankly I don’t want them at the cost of our entire farm and everone bashing our young talent. Instead we have to focus on a team that knows they aren’t going to contend, looking to unload money and meets our needs. (From another post I made earlier on another topic) What could be compelling, would be a package of F-Mart, Heilman, Church and/or Mulvey/Humber (not both) for Gorzelanny, Snell, Nady, Marte and since there are reports that they want to unload Bay’s contract for a position prospect (That’s F-Mart) and pitching prospect (That’s Mulvey or Humber) you could net bay whose wrapped up for a couple more years who can work this season at either first or the corner outfielder spots. If you can’t not a problem, but now you have; a) a familiar fan favorite veteran in right with Nady (who will give you the similar offensive numbers as Church but with more pop, but less defense) and can platoon with the budding Carlos Gomez if you’d like, b) bullpen help in Marte, who is regarded as a hot commodity by the Yankees and other teams, adds a solid arm in the pen which would replace the whole by Heilman who in the last couple months of the season started earning the nick name “Homerun Heilman” (plus he’ll wind up being used as a stsrter anyway for Pittsburgh. And of course c) the pick up of two young guns in Ian Snell and Tom Gorzellany who are two young pitchers in the simmilar form Maine and Perez were early on. With the tutelage of Peterson and the better offensive numbers the Mets put up than Pittsburgh you can almost gaurantee that each will at least one or two more wins (Making Gorzy have a projected win outcome of at least 16 and Snell at least 11). Our new rotation Now Consists of as follows:
Pedro
Maine
Ollie
Gorzy
Snell
*El Duque (if they decide to go witha six man rotation)
The beauty of this is the shear fact that if Snell does not pan out as a starter, you could easily switch to a reliable veteran in El Duque, or give Pelfrey another shot in the rotation. All in all you got a nice young rotation under the tutelage of Rick Peterson and a helping hand of Pedro Martinez. Meanwhile our starting lineup is now as follows:
Reyes
Castillo
Wright
Beltran
Delgado/Bay
Alou/Bay
Nady/Gomez
Schneider/Castro
Pittsburgh will be able to trade Bay who granted had a very bad year in Pittsburgh yesterday and can now be only traded for a cheaper price, which they don’t want to do, for he gets lost with the big prospect name of F-Mart and Humber/Mulvey. On the days both Delgado and Moises start he will just add depth to our already stellar bench. So in all the Trade looks as follows:
PIRATES GET:
OF Fernando Martinez
OF Ryan Church
RHP Aaron Heilman
RHP Kevin Mulvey and/or RHP Phillip Humber
METS GET:
LHP Tom Gorzelanny
RHP Ian Snell
OF Xavier Nady
LHP Demaso Marte
OF Jason Bay
And don’t even try to say they won’t do it because of the money we’d have to eat. Money is not an issue with this team. No ace, but promising youngsters and some pop. No Ace I understand, but with this you have the possibility to have 4 Maine type players lead by a veteran, and switchable parts, plus money is not an issue with team. What do you guys think?
That has to be the craziest trade I have ever heard. So the Pirates will trade the entire franchise for used parts and potential.
Sure, I’d do that trade in a heartbeat. And the Pirates would have trouble rejecting it through their hysterical laughter. I like the creativity, but doubt the Pirates GM would be dumb enough to do it (unless its Jim Duquette)
so we get every good player the pirates have for an 18 yr old kid in AA, a 29 yr old 4th OFer, a setup man, and 1 to 2 B-level at best pitching prospects….suddenly the oliver perez deal doesnt seem like such a fleecing.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
you’re startin to sound like my die-hard yankee fan of a little sister…complete lack of reason
of course the money wouldn’t matter, it wouldn’t get past the Z in gorzelanny
lol, im just sayin they want to unload and rebuild and have been quoted as saying everyone’s availale. Throw in gomez and the deal is a LOCK.
I’ll take Arroyo. I don’t think the Mets problem is a lack of quality #2-#3 starters though. What we need is a frontline ace. That would make us the favorites in the National League. Ace, Pedro,Perez, Maine, El Duque… imagine? If we trade for a pitcher, I assume Pelfrey and Humber will be gone, so that’s why I put El Duque there. If we get Blanton, the rotation would be Pedro, Maine, Perez, Blanton, and El Duque. We would still have El Duque as the 5th starter no matter what because in the quest for a new starting pitcher, we will get rid of our pitching depth. Or we can stand pat and go into the season with Pedro, Maine, Perez, El Duque, Pelfrey/Humber. That’s very risky. We do need one more starter, but I’m hoping it’s an ace. If we get an ace and the rotation is ace, pedro, perez, maine, and el duque… who will be the emergency starter when El Duque inevitably goes down? Or Pedro? It would have to be Pelfrey, Humber, or Mulvey… if one of them is still here after the inevitable trade. I expect Omar to make his typical Jose Lima type of signing as well. Brian Lawrence Part II, anyone? God I hope not.
Call in Darling from the booth!
Lets not play the mock trade game. It’s a waste of time.
Forget Johan. Forget Bedard. Forget Haren. Call it overpaying or inflation or whatever you will. Smart MLB GM’s realize they can take advantage of their more aggressive contemporaries. Omar has already made one questionable trade this week because he felt he had to do something to make this team better now.
I am so sick of Mets GM’s making horrible moves because we fans are so impatient. From Mo Vaughn to Kazmir to Milledge, the Mets rush decisions in order to make back page headlines. We need to wait to re-establish the reputation of our prospects that has been damaged by the organization’s tendency to rush their talent (according to Keith Law who knows these things).
I would be more than happy for the Mets to overpay for Carlos Silva and split the 5th spot in the rotation between El duque/Pelfrey/Humber.
What do you people think?
i think if law knew as much as he thinks he does he be a gm somewhere by now. i think it was only a couple of years ago when the complaint was the mets wouldnt bring up the kids fast enough. i think the fans are impatient and not really informed or knowlegable aout all deals. people are goin nuts because omar hasnt gotten an ace yet, and the winter meetings are just starting. prospecting is not an exact science, and neither is trading. sometimes it pans out, sometimes it dont, it cant be helped. almost every deal omar has made has been more widely panned than praised. and for the most part all you hear about is the ones that havent worked out as well, even though most of those deals can truly be judged for years. the only fact i care about is that the team is better since omar took over. if the trend doesnt continue then complain. but the team was very competitive laste last 2 years and its way too early to start judging this off season. dont forget the know it alls were totally upset when nady beat out the hot prospect diaz a couple of years ago, and then just as upset when nady was dealt for perez, and now perez is just a notch below a santana and shouldnt be dealt either(according to them). i say lets trust a little and see what church can do before we call for heads to roll, and also what the rest of the off season has to offer, because like it or not, omar has improved the team.
I disagree with you re the #1s, Stickguy. I’d sign a Silva-type for the mid-bottom spot (#4, let’s say).
But, once they have Pedro, Perez, Maine, Silva, Pelfrey & Duque as a feasible 5 man rotation plus safety net, I’d go out and see if John Maine + F-Mart + (any other pitcher from the farm system) + (any position player except Gomez from the farm system ) isn’t a better trade for an ace. That would give us Bedard/Haren/Harden/Sheets/whoever, plus Pedro, Perez, Silva, Pelfrey, and Duque. Even if Humber is gone, maybe someone else from AAA steps up to be the #7 starter in a pinch.
I want to keep Gomez. This is probably Alou’s last year, and Gomez should make the move to the big club after 300 more ABs in AAA. There’s no in-house answer for 1B or C in the near future, so it becomes more important to fill that OF hole on the cheap.
I hope Omar is taking the rational approach (a few guys in this thread hit on it).
The team had a bad finish, but is still one of the better teams in the league, as it stands.
They do need 1 more SP, but it just has to be a solid guy, preferably with some upside. Blanton could do, Snell would be perfect. COncentrate on that area.
I personally think the FAs are all worthless, but for sake of arguement, say they just sign Silva. He would effectively replace Glavine.
Maine
Perez
Pedro
Is as good a top three most ilkely as any other team has, certainly in the division.
If #4 becomes Silva, he is at least as good as Moyer in Phila. Or most of the crap #4 starters floating around.
Actually, he would be #5. El Duque is a solid #4, if he can stay on the filed. And if Silva is #4, then Duque/Pelfrey is as good a #5 tandem as most teams have.
Now, adding say Snell instead of Silva would ba a vast upgrade.
Pedro
Maine
Perez
Snell
is as good a 1-4 as any team in the league if they all performa as should be expected, and if the 3 young guys take the next step up, it could be dominant. And at their ages (25-26) they are primed to do it.
Fill in the rotation with Duque (a great #5) until he breaks, then slot in Pelfrey (or Humber/Mulvey, whoever they have left, if they are ptiching well).
Grap Garcia on a ML deal just in case.
Get Nady to platoon with CHurch and BU 1B.
Reyes
Castillo
DW
Beltran
Alou
Delgado
Church/Nady
Schneider/Castro (l/r platoon)
Bench: Easley, Anderson, Schneider/castro, Gotay, Nady/Church
Pedro
Maine
Perez
Snell (or equivilant)
Duque/Pelfrey
Pen:
Pelfrey/Duque
Wags
Heilmann
Schoe
Fleiciano
Sosa
?
That team is certainly going to be competitive, and could be very, very good, especially if the SP reaches some of it’s potential.
Of course, some tweaks to be made depending on who they trade for the SP they get (unless it is Silva), and the bench might tweak, and a couple of pen arms.
But, the big move is the SP, then shuffle the bits and pieces to fine tune the bench and pen, and go for it.
Somewhere around these lines is exactly what I think we should do, they aren’t looking to win this year (The Pirates) so lets pillage there.
The trade that I thought of wasn’t pulled out of nowhere. Its a product of different reports I’ve read that show that the playes are available and we are looking for them. Heyman reported that:
• Pittsburgh is also accepting bids on Jason Bay. As one Pirates person out it, “Everyone’s available.” Which is the way it should be when a team is rebuilding.
and that the mets may be interested in Nady. The tarde I said just allows us to get what we need.
bay is overrated big time and streaky, nady would be a downgrade from church. lets not forget how much complaining was done about nadys defense when he was here.
IMO you are a moron..Blanton is a fat turd….he will collapse trying to run to first….and we cannot be assured Maine or Perez will be as good as they were a year ago….we need an ace…but like we all know it will not happen…Its a shame Harang isnt available instead of Arroyo…either way our rotation will be set after we crap out money for Livan and Silva…hello 3rd place!!!! Im a DIE HARD Mets fan…so plz dont doubt my loyalty..its Omar and Willies fault that I doubt we will succeed …I hope we fail this year so we can ship them out …and move on and up in 09.
Directed towards ravi3 above^
no one’s doutbting your loyalty, just your rationality
Oh, I understand lot of it is based on actual rumors, but trades of that size are very rare and difficult to pull off and its incredibly lopsided in our favor. Even if you added gomez, the Pirates would still be crazy to accept it
As much as I like outside the box thinking- that seems to heavily favored for us.
Lose Marte and one of the starters and assume they wanna dump Bay because of his salary, substitute Gomez for F-mart and make it Mulvey not Humber and it seems more reasonable to me.
They don’t completly deplete there team of good players and we don’t loose our top prospect. A smaller deal seems much more likely as well.
totally agree with gmoney up there
also I wouldn’t touch Blanton he’s already 250-260lbs and out of shape at age 26. Granted he’s 6ft 3 but he’ll only be putting on more weight in the near future. Sounds to me like a recipe for a short career.
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guns dallas…
How does the rss feed work so I can get updated on your blog?…