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	<title>Comments on: Buzz: D&#8217;Backs have Package for Haren</title>
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		<title>By: will</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54234</link>
		<dc:creator>will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54234</guid>
		<description>Its true. The pitchers the Mets traded for Delgado and LoDuca were something like their third and fourth best prospects at the time but Petit hasnt done much since he&#039;s been a Marlin and I havent heard anything at all about Gabe Hernandez, though he is still very young.

The point is that the Mets have had prospects but have chosen to trade them for veteran hitters rather than allow them to develop. These moves have helped the Mets become respectable but in order to win in the playoffs you have to have better pitching. The respectability might have helped the Mets sign, say, Carlos Zambrano had he become a FA but this doesnt happen these days (same with Peavy, Santana, etc). So, in this sense the strategy has backfired. Also, Omar has done well to get Maine, Perez and Sanchez, all of whom are young pitchers who have more than substituted the losses of the guys they traded. But the tide may have turned last offseason when Omar traded Bell, Bannister and Lindstrom for essentially nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its true. The pitchers the Mets traded for Delgado and LoDuca were something like their third and fourth best prospects at the time but Petit hasnt done much since he&#8217;s been a Marlin and I havent heard anything at all about Gabe Hernandez, though he is still very young.</p>
<p>The point is that the Mets have had prospects but have chosen to trade them for veteran hitters rather than allow them to develop. These moves have helped the Mets become respectable but in order to win in the playoffs you have to have better pitching. The respectability might have helped the Mets sign, say, Carlos Zambrano had he become a FA but this doesnt happen these days (same with Peavy, Santana, etc). So, in this sense the strategy has backfired. Also, Omar has done well to get Maine, Perez and Sanchez, all of whom are young pitchers who have more than substituted the losses of the guys they traded. But the tide may have turned last offseason when Omar traded Bell, Bannister and Lindstrom for essentially nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: toomanyuniforms</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54176</link>
		<dc:creator>toomanyuniforms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54176</guid>
		<description>Bingo.  The &quot;credibility&quot; thing is a ready excuse.  Fact is, we should not have been trading young for old except for pitching.

That said, the pitching we&#039;ve given up has not been terrific.  I can only think of one obvious pre-Omar example.  In the Omar era, we really haven&#039;t had any top pitchers in the system.  You can talk about Bannister&#039;s success, I guess, but he did not have much value until last season.  A Burgos was the best they could hope for (though they should have just frigging held onto him.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bingo.  The &#8220;credibility&#8221; thing is a ready excuse.  Fact is, we should not have been trading young for old except for pitching.</p>
<p>That said, the pitching we&#8217;ve given up has not been terrific.  I can only think of one obvious pre-Omar example.  In the Omar era, we really haven&#8217;t had any top pitchers in the system.  You can talk about Bannister&#8217;s success, I guess, but he did not have much value until last season.  A Burgos was the best they could hope for (though they should have just frigging held onto him.)</p>
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		<title>By: toomanyuniforms</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54166</link>
		<dc:creator>toomanyuniforms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54166</guid>
		<description>Yay, I said that!!!!! (probably along with a lot of other people)

Boo, no ace.

This is BAD, because the more teams enter the derby, the fewer pitchers are left for the Mets.

And, to ruin the metaphor and return to an older one, they&#039;re more like a cash crop (hence &quot;farm&quot; system).  I don&#039;t think it&#039;s that the Mets have no prosepcts as much as they have no Major League ready prospects, at least in the eyes of other teams.  They&#039;re not ready for &quot;harvest.&quot;  We have Lowries, but no Lesters, in other words, and at least the A&#039;s and O&#039;s are not dumping off two month rentals.  Bedard and Haren are under the control of whomever they go to for at least a couple years.  So, their teams figure they can take advantage of a rabid market and get Major League ready phenoms, along with some pipeline players.  The Mets&#039; package is all potential -- big potential, in some cases (F-Mart and I have to think Gomez) -- but ONLY potential, as compared to some of these guys with a season or half season under their belts.  The Mets package looks like something you&#039;d see for a player that a team can no longer afford, or a premium deadline pitcher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yay, I said that!!!!! (probably along with a lot of other people)</p>
<p>Boo, no ace.</p>
<p>This is BAD, because the more teams enter the derby, the fewer pitchers are left for the Mets.</p>
<p>And, to ruin the metaphor and return to an older one, they&#8217;re more like a cash crop (hence &#8220;farm&#8221; system).  I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s that the Mets have no prosepcts as much as they have no Major League ready prospects, at least in the eyes of other teams.  They&#8217;re not ready for &#8220;harvest.&#8221;  We have Lowries, but no Lesters, in other words, and at least the A&#8217;s and O&#8217;s are not dumping off two month rentals.  Bedard and Haren are under the control of whomever they go to for at least a couple years.  So, their teams figure they can take advantage of a rabid market and get Major League ready phenoms, along with some pipeline players.  The Mets&#8217; package is all potential &#8212; big potential, in some cases (F-Mart and I have to think Gomez) &#8212; but ONLY potential, as compared to some of these guys with a season or half season under their belts.  The Mets package looks like something you&#8217;d see for a player that a team can no longer afford, or a premium deadline pitcher.</p>
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		<title>By: Ferragamo</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54113</link>
		<dc:creator>Ferragamo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54113</guid>
		<description>It must be nice to actually have some top prospects like the D-Backs, that other teams want to acquire. Think about it if Arizona can acquire a pitcher like Haren, without ravaging there entire farm system. It&#039;s very frustrating as a Mets fan watching stuff like this go down, especially after the way our season ended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It must be nice to actually have some top prospects like the D-Backs, that other teams want to acquire. Think about it if Arizona can acquire a pitcher like Haren, without ravaging there entire farm system. It&#8217;s very frustrating as a Mets fan watching stuff like this go down, especially after the way our season ended.</p>
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		<title>By: will</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54112</link>
		<dc:creator>will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54112</guid>
		<description>Haren&#039;s not going anywhere until the Santana thing is resolved. A&#039;s arent stupid. If BOS gets Santana then Yanks will get Haren and the rest of the baseball will bid for Bedard and the rest. 

Incidentally, the Mets have traded plenty of minor league prospects over the last three years to help get guys like Delgado, LoDuca, Burgos, etc.  I have never liked trading prospects for anything but young pitchers but Omar felt the team had to get on the map before it could sign FAs, etc (he claims having Pedro got the Mets Beltran - I think it was the money not Pedro). The logic has somewhat backfired because the best pitchers dont get to the market unless they are older. So, a team needs prospects to get the pitchers. So, the Mets right now are stuck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haren&#8217;s not going anywhere until the Santana thing is resolved. A&#8217;s arent stupid. If BOS gets Santana then Yanks will get Haren and the rest of the baseball will bid for Bedard and the rest. </p>
<p>Incidentally, the Mets have traded plenty of minor league prospects over the last three years to help get guys like Delgado, LoDuca, Burgos, etc.  I have never liked trading prospects for anything but young pitchers but Omar felt the team had to get on the map before it could sign FAs, etc (he claims having Pedro got the Mets Beltran &#8211; I think it was the money not Pedro). The logic has somewhat backfired because the best pitchers dont get to the market unless they are older. So, a team needs prospects to get the pitchers. So, the Mets right now are stuck.</p>
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		<title>By: Hit The Weights Zeile</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54102</link>
		<dc:creator>Hit The Weights Zeile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54102</guid>
		<description>so whats it been like 40 years since the last time we had a dominant pitching staff?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so whats it been like 40 years since the last time we had a dominant pitching staff?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Hit The Weights Zeile</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54094</link>
		<dc:creator>Hit The Weights Zeile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54094</guid>
		<description>*i dont think*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*i dont think*</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Achilles400</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54085</link>
		<dc:creator>Achilles400</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54085</guid>
		<description>Start of a dominant pitchiong staff with Webb.  Good thing Arizona can&#039;t hit a lick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Start of a dominant pitchiong staff with Webb.  Good thing Arizona can&#8217;t hit a lick.</p>
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		<title>By: tfc3rid</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54084</link>
		<dc:creator>tfc3rid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54084</guid>
		<description>We&#039;re getting no one big...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re getting no one big&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Hit The Weights Zeile</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54076</link>
		<dc:creator>Hit The Weights Zeile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-dbacks-have-package-for-haren/#comment-54076</guid>
		<description>no disrespect but i think anything other than actually making a trade helps us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no disrespect but i think anything other than actually making a trade helps us.</p>
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