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…there is more and more buzz coming from Nashville suggesting that the Mets are seriously considering Livan Hernandez…
Earlier today, citing ‘a source,’ MLB.com reported that the Nationals may be willing to give Hernandez a two-year deal.
…if you recall, multiple reports over the last week had suggested the Mets were debating whether to sign hernandez…in fact, ESPN.com made another reference to this today…i dig hernandez, but not at more than two years…no way, no how…
Hernandez, Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux are the only major-league pitchers to make 30 or more starts in each of the past 10 seasons. However, Hernandez’s total innings-pitched has dropped during each of the last four years.
…as i have mentioned before, the buzz in baseball, for a while now, has been that livan and his brother, Orlando Hernandez, would like to be on the same team, hoping to reunite before one or both of them retires…
For what it’s worth, Orlando is a free agent after next season.
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yea of course we are because we cant get a fuc***g ace
Stick a fork in it and we are done. Our big acquisition is finally here!!!!
Or it will take Pelfrey to get an ace, and we want to bullpen el duque.
Cabrara and willis to detroit. thats a deal. omar, please take note. I say unless the last name ends in reyes, wright, or beltran…anything is fair game.
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh…..
I REALLY don’t know how I feel about this one
why not get ramon martinez out of retirement so that pedro can pitch with his brother on the same team before he retires too?
Really, who cares that the hernandez brothers want to be on the same team? So that means the mets need to get stuck with these two aging pitchers? Please give me a break………..Omar sucks if he makes this move……..
Becuz ramon is physically unable due to arm injuries
Well, this certainly makes up for not getting Santana or Bedard.
just let the kids pitch if we cant get an ace…what is omar doing
sign him for an incentive laden deal….2 years max
then go out and make a trade for an ace or a blanton type pitcher and get an rp or 2
done and done
How can you blame me for being a pessimist after this? Speculation, rumors, proposed trades- and all we get is Livan?
UGH.
Do you happen to believe everything you read? Lets wait for all these supposed trades to go down before we complain…sheesh.
do you people forget the previous years winter meetings every time its this time again? This is how it goes EVERY year, a million rumors, and like 1 deal total.
fart.
word.
Oh what a surprise.
That’s nice…let El Duque sign whereever else Livan signs after this year then.
He’s definitely better than Mike Glavine.
I’d prefer Silva over Livan
yeah, and i prefer gray to beige.
we need somebody to fill the fifth starter… let the kids develop under less pressure in AAA they havent shown there ready yet, secondary pitches arent there
I don’t mind Hernandez, he’ll simply be our new Tom Glavine in our rotation by pitching in games, eating innings, n getting wins. Pelfrey or Humber wouldn’t match the innings he’ll pitch or wins.
Why not pelfrey or humber? They are young guys who should be able to log numerous innings if given the chance……..
is that a joke? young guys who have never been through an entire major league season are more likely to log numerous innings? This must be a joke.
Becuz pelfrey struggles getting threw more than 5 innings, in 30 starts that 150 innings
oh goddddddd
from plan A to plan Z
Ugh. Disgusting. Just let the kids battle it out for a spot if they can’t get a top-notch starter. Then whoever is left over can go to New Orleans and serve as the backup.
And put Heilman into the mix for starting. If he doesn’t win the spot, then put him back in the pen.
Such a waste of a roster spot and money with Livan. He’s going to have an ERA of 5.00 or over next year.
If Omar does this then he’s incompetent.
Dudes, the Mets need 2 pitchers…..if NO pitcher is obtained from a trade, then Pelfrey is the #5……we need a #4 and whether its Livan, Silva, Jennings, etc. who cares!
Hey dude, El Duque is going to be in the rotation. He’s never relieved. All those fans thinking he’s going to be in the pen (if healthy) are nuts.
So you have:
Pedro
Maine
Ollie
El Duque
Pelfrey/Humber/Mulvey
El Duque is being paid about $6M. You don’t pay someone $6M to be a long man and he’s never done that in his life.
Does Reyes have a brother?
They could drink together in the dugout….
Any Omar sightings at the Opryland Motel?
Each passing day smells more like a 3rd place finish in the NL East.
Livan would signal Plan F (for Failure) and the official end of the Omar regime. There is no way to spin this result if this is all the Mets end up with. I don’t care what Omar would say at a press conference. Perhaps developing a viable farm system should have been something placed on management’s priority list over the past few years – for the benefit of the club and its ability to act as players in the trade market (which all signs show the Mets are clearly not).
Don’t forget Livan costs a first-round pick for compensation.
No, he doesn’t.
Livan’s a Type B free agent, which means the Mets don’t lose any picks for signing him, but the Diamondbacks get a compensation sandwich pick from the league.
I doubt it. I think he’s a “B” type player in which case the D-Backs just get a sandwich pick and the Mets keep their draft pick. Still, Livan is such an awful pitcher at this point in this career. I don’t want him under any circumstances.
I bet Pelfrey, Humber, or Heilman can put up a 5.00 ERA or lower next year. So they will be no worse than Livan but you’ll be building for the future.
Keep in mind though, Livan is being courted by __ and __, so the urgency to get a deal done is there….
i dont mind the move…..hes not gonna get livan and call it a day….hes getting him to eat innings and save our pen
last year not having our starters go more than 6 killed our pen….getting a guy like livan will be a big addition
i doubt anyone is expecting great things from him other than 11-13wins with an era of like 4.3….which for a #5 i would take in a heartbeat
last year not having our starters go more than 6 killed our pen
That’s somewhat of a fallacy. Their starters were #7 in the NL in terms of innings pitched so they actually above average.
The problem was that there were 3 bad relievers at the back end of the bullpen which put additional strain on the rest of the relievers.
When you need relievers to come in to get relievers out of trouble then the whole pen is taxed.
the problem is the idiocy of modern bullpen usage and the refusal to use your best relief pitcher (wagner) in situations that demand it. what’s the point in “saving” your closer till the 9th if the rest of the bullpen can’t hold a tie/lead?
Well, you’re espousing the Bill James theory of bullpen usage but I think it’s bunk. Fact is, you’re never going to know in the 7th inning when a critical situation arises if an even more critical situation will arise in the 8th or 9th. If it does, and you’ve already spent your best relievers in the 7th, then you’re up a creek when the real crisis arises.
Also, some relievers are unfit to pitch under the pressures of the 9th inning. That’s why you groom closers from among those with both the physical skills and the mental fortitude to do the job.
first, it’s not even really bill james’ theory. it’s how relief pitching used to work and i’m pretty sure it worked back then. second, you’re telling me you’d watch guillermo mota come in with 1st and 2nd nobody out and give up 4 runs and then never be able to use wagner because you’re not sure if you’ll have another critical situation later in the game? i think THAT’S bunk. why save your best reliever if your middle relief can’t hold a lead or a tie?
HAVE NO FEAR!
UNDERDOG IS HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this isnt as bad as everyone is making it out to be. yea we need an ace in the worst way but we need a 5 starter too. look at last year. you could argue that if we actually had a real 5th starter instead of the rubbish we threw out there (williams, vargas, lawrence, park) we wouldve made the playoffs.
i just changed my mind as i realized this guy will cost us a draft pick. btw the draft pick compensation system needs some tweaking if a guy with a 5+ era costs a draft pick.
He’s not going to cost us a draft pick. Only signing a Type A FA costs you a draft pick. Type B FAs like Livan net their old team (assuming they offered them arb) a sandwich pick, but it’s not at the expense of the signing team.
I hate baseball
me too…..know way to get a pitcher now other than through organic growth!
You know, maybe they’re better off starting Pelf and Humber in AAA. One of the reasons our prospects’ value plummeted so rapidly was that the club rushes them (they call it challenging them) into the majors. Let them work their stuff out down there without potential trade partners down line watching them getting lit up on ESPN highlights.
how fat would livan get living in manhattan? much more fast food to each. he loves his mcdonalds.
dump el duque too
finally u and zeile understand……for a #5 starter hes not bad…..everyone needs to stop hoping for omar to make big news for the sake of making big news
we have 3 needs to fill….a #1/2 pitcher, #5 and bullpen help
by signing livan he takes care of 2/3….we get a #5 and putting el duque in the pen helps us out as well
then he can focus on trading/signing a frontline sp as well as another reliever
everyone needs to stop focusing on all the big names out there and focus on filling our needs
our offense is fine….if we fill our 3 needs i dont see y we cant get back to where we were 2 years ago
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! When the Mets play this guy it’s like BP. Please, please, please Omar have some sense. DO NOT SIGN THIS GUY!!!
Maybe they’re signing him because they need a BP pitcher.
I think that this is a great deal picking up hernandez who EATS UP INNINGS which the mets needed last year he is a consistent pitcher as well
i think this would be the most ideal trade for the mets after signing livan
Three way deal with the A’s and the reds where the mets trade carlos gomez, brant rustich, mike carp, pelfrey and heilman and/or humber/fernando martinez and throw in maybe ryan church and one of brian schneider or jonny estrada
in return the mets get blanton and bronson arroyo
both capable of being stoppers in the roataion
i mean if u think about it wut are the chances that any of these prospects will be future all stars.
I mean the mets team right now is built to win now and omar has to recognize that we are not in the rebuilding stage and we are built to win this year so take a chance
Insane ideas. Livan has been consistanly BAD over the last two years, and his numbers are showing a huge basement year for him.
A three way deal to magically land us Arroyo and Blanton.
Nice joke.
This would be a horrible signing by Omar.
I don’t see it as a bad signing in itself; it’s bad if it’s the only upgrade Omar makes to the rotation.
I don’t think that counting on two still-unproven youngsters (Pelfrey and Humber) as part of your starting staff is a great strategy for a team that is in win-now mode.
It’s not like Omar would be trading prospects for Livan.
Let’s go Expos.
can we get the niekro bros while we are at it? we could even go get lance niekro and stick him at first base….go get ‘em omar!!!
for a #5 starter hes not bad…..everyone needs to stop hoping for omar to make big news for the sake of making big news
we have 3 needs to fill….a #1/2 pitcher, #5 and bullpen help
by signing livan he takes care of 2/3….we get a #5 and putting el duque in the pen helps us out as well
then he can focus on trading/signing a frontline sp as well as another reliever
everyone needs to stop focusing on all the big names out there and focus on filling our needs
our offense is fine….if we fill our 3 needs i dont see y we cant get back to where we were 2 years ago
Thank you Mr. D.
Answer: Johan, Bedard and Haren.
Question: Name three front line starters that Omar coaxed Mets fans into believing he’d make a play for this off season.
How is it a top-market team, with what fans were led to believe had top-rated young talent, can’t find any interest at the Winter Meetings? If not Johan, Bedard or Haren, at least Blanton or Willis. But no, our GM is talking to Freddy Garcia, Silva, Livan and Fartolo Colon.
This is disgraceful.
coaxed into believing? r u dumb?
its the winter meetings and the mets r a big city, east coast club with money to spend….obviously they r going to be linked to all the biggest names out there because they play in the biggest market in baseball
go back to the beginning of the day and look at all the trades and teams that fans were “coaxed into believing”
wake up
im officially a tampa bay rays fan
good riddance.
You guys who say that this would be a horrible signing, or that we should just let the kids pitch just don’t get the big picture here. The ace pitchers on the trade market may vey well be out of our reach and any secondary pitchers via trade are probably not worth it because you’d be giving up the farm for a #3. Assuming we can’t land an ace Omar has no other option but to sign a Livan Hernandez or Carlos Silva type. The Mets need a guy who can throw a bunch of innings. You can’t expect guys like Pelfrey or Humber to throw 200 innings in there first full major league seasons. It takes time for these to get conditioned for that workload. Hernandez or Silva can easily duplicate what Glavine could do for us and essentially that’s the guy we’re replacing. Hell, I’d love to see Santana, Bedard or Haren in a Mets uni but there’s a good chance it won’t happen. In that case we NEED a LIvan Hernandez type. It is what it is my friends.
Silva is different. I’d rather they overpay for Silva than bring in Livan, though I don’t like either option. Livan has declined steadily the last few years and will probably decline further next year, he’s no longer the big innings eater you think, and his ERA last year was just .40 better than Aaron Sele’s.
He’s a garbage starter at this point in his career. A guarantted ERA of 5.00 or more. You’d never see Theo or Cashman signing Livan. Never.
that’s because theo and cashman draft based on statistical analysis and not on some 75 year old scout’s opinion of a player. thus, their farm systems blow everyone else’s away. not very hard to understand.
addendum: therefore, they don’t have to sign aging pitchers that suck.
p.s. how many #5 starters had ERA’s under 4.5 last year?
Yes and how many teams DIDN’T make the playoffs last year?
metsfw, their farm systems really don’t blow everyone else’s away but they are good enough to have a good number of elite-caliber prospects to use as chips. Other farm systems are rated higher. It’s just that the Mets system has fallen over the last year, sadly to the point where it’s considered pretty barren right now. There are ways to manage a farm system to optimize both actual and perceived value of your prospects. The Yankees do this (in part with PR) but Omar hasn’t a clue.
agreed on your last point, but as you’ve said before, where’s our phil hughes?
pifman – huh? you think a NUMBER 5 STARTER makes or breaks a playoff team? get a clue.
i keep leaving stuff out:
perhaps if the mets had a method to drafting rather than going after who looks the best, the farm system wouldn’t be in shambles. with a first rounder and a supplemental pick this year, hopefully omar gets his head out of his ass and drafts someone worth spending money on.
Exactly, Silva is different. His numbers will improve for a multitude of reasons.
1. Groundball pitcher who currently plays at home on artificial turf which speeds up the ball on the ground making it harder to field. So if he comes to Shea with real grass the ball will not travel as fast and he will allow fewer hits.
2. He will be pitching in Shea, then Citifield which are both pitcher’s parks so his HR total will go down which was his truly bad stat last season.
3. He will be switching from the AL to the “lighter hitting” NL and will most likely do better for that reason as well.
Then you could say Rick Peterson could also help him improve, along with the tutelage of Pedro and El Duque to help him out. Santana was the veteran pitcher on the Twins, and yeah he is good but he just doesn’t have the experience that Pedro or El Duque do that could immensley helpful. I would be very happy if they signed Silva and would not be surprised if his ERA was around 3.5 with a good 13-16 wins in his pocket.
They don’t need a ‘Livian Hernandez type’, they need someone who can pitch and keep them in games. First of all he barely cracked 200 innings last year. Then look at his game log and see how many times he was shelled for 5 or more runs. Then look how poorly he pitched the last 2 months of the season.
There is no upside with him, only downside. Just like Glavine. You know he peaked long ago and the only place he has to go is down.
…i dig hernandez
Matthew, it’s your birthday, man! Enjoy – I’ll let that one pass!
I won’t give Omar a pass on this, because now that he says that he doesn’t need to make a trade (too bad he didn’t think of that 5 days ago), it becomes even less news that he is serious about Livan. The guy’s in love with him and will, I would guess, go 3 years minimum to get him.
Don’t rule out trade. Our rotation currently looks like so:
Martinez
Maine
Perez
Hernandez
Pelfrey.
I’m sure that Omar doesn’t want to start El Duque fo the season. Too many injury risks.
Leaving it:
Martinez
Maine
Perez
Pelfrey
??
Think outside the box. Let’s say we need a lot to send to Baltimore in exchange for Bedard, which we do. It probably will cost Pelfrey. Signing Hernandez and trading Pelfrey may be Omar’s plan. Be wary that he tends to keep his promises.
You forgot El Duque. He’s being paid about $6M and he’s not going to start the season in the pen. He’ll be in the rotation.
Save the 5th spot for one of the kids.
He distinctly said El Duque should start in the bullpen because of his injury risk. And I agree with that completely. He is the kind of pitcher who does better the first time around facing a lineup because he completely fools them and would be best off in the ‘pen where he could probably last all season. If we can get someone to truly take his place I am all for El Duque being a relief pitcher.
Huh? Who said this? Omar said no such thing. (Find a link if you think it exists.)
El Duque will be in the rotation unless he’s hurt. You don’t pay a pitcher $6M to be a long man.
Personally I think El Duque shouldn’t have even been signed last year. I’d like him off the team. But he’s being paid $6M and has never relieved before. He will be in the rotation.
not to nitpick, but he came out of the bullpen for the chisox in the ‘04 playoffs…and they won the world series. could be a ***CLUTCH*** relief pitcher maybe? ;-)
Los M*ts!
Fire this incompetent clown.
You know not for anything sign Livian and Silva and let’s call it a day. This whole thing is getting a little crazy. What is it going to take to get good front line pitcher these days?
FARM SYSTEM.
Its very clear that Omar is not going to get any front liners because everyone and their grandmothers have better prospects and young (less than 3years) players. The Mets have nothing. Poor scouting/signings for years and years have led this team where it is now.
I still want to know how the Yankees after years and years of throwing away prospects could seriously enter discussions for Sananta and the Mets can’t? Truely Amazing!!!
Let’s just sign Livian, Silva and find a way to bolster the offense so at least the Mets could make it a bit tougher on the good pitchers.
This could mean something broader than just going the year with Martinez, Maine, Perez, and he Hernandez Bros. in the rotation.
This could mean that the Mets are sending Pelfrey in the deal for Bedard. Omar has a tendency to think broader. If he was just going to settle for a guy it would’ve been Kuroda. Think about it.
What’s w/ the Livan bashing? He’s always pitched well in key spots. He may get lit up from time to time but I highly doubt he would’ve given up 7ER in 1/3 of an inning in the last game of the year, and that’s who he’d be replacing. Livan had no trouble beating the Cubbies in the playoffs. There’s worse problems than having him as the #5 in the rotation.
Livan’s ERA was worse than Glavine who had more quality starts than him this year. Livan is on the decline and you’re going to be paying him $5-8M to be a fifth starter? Huh?
Let one of the kids have the spot. One of the reasons our prospects are so crappy in many other GMs’ eyes is because Omar doesn’t give enough of them a chance to develop in the big leagues. Of course some won’t pan out. Then you send them back down and bring someone else up. Eventually a few will pan out to the point they have more value than some of our prospects do today.
He’s always pitched well in key spots.
I’m sorry man. Tell that to the SF Giants who were looking for their first World Championship ever.
Then, in the deciding game on Sunday, October 27, when everything was riding on the outcome, Hernandez failed to survive the third inning. In that inning, he gave up singles to Eckstein and Erstad, hit Salmon with a pitch, then yielded a three-run double to Anderson.
Baker didn’t pull Hernandez out of the game until after he had issued an intentional walk to Glaus and at that point the Giants were down, 4-1, which ended up as the final score.
Huh? If they got Bedard, it would be:
Bedard
Pedro
Maine
Perez
El Duque
El Duque is already signed. If you think he’s going into the pen (unless he’s hurt) you’re crazy. So why waste millions on Livan as there would no place to put him???
this is a reply to the message 2 posts up by TilMetsDoUsPart.
You want to know why I really don’t want Livan besides the fact that he isn’t that good and he’s declining? He is somehow a class A free agent and would cost us draft picks. That would be the dumbest and worst possible signing Omar could make. And if that wouldn’t convince you of Omar’s bias towards players he is friendly with I don’t know what will, when there are pitchers like Kuroda and Silva who wouldn’t cost draft picks, are younger and more talented. I would honestly prefer that we had resigned Glavine if we end up getting Hernandez. There would be absolutely no improvement in any category if that is what happens and if the Wilpons really agree to Omar signing him I will have lost all faith that anybody has brains in the Mets management.
No. As a “B” type free agent he wouldn’t cost us a draft pick. But I still don’t want him. He stinks.
All I can say that, as a Met fan, I was originally looking forward to the postseason. When that didn’t work out, I was looking forward to the offseason and us improving the team. Barring a monumental unforeseen deal, I will have to wait awhile to look forward to Omar and Willie being fired so then the team can finally rebuild. I’m really hoping that the team will do better and be more exciting than the prospects look like right now. This team appears to be seriously weaker than it was in October 06 and although the team still has some great core players, it is not easy to get excited about watching Church, Schneider or potentially Livan and El Duque.
He stinks. Innings pitched decreasing, Ks down, hits up, ERA up, and he now throws about as hard as my 15 YO son, and he hasn’t pitched since last year.
Stay away, or you will be wishing for Chan Ho to come to the rescue.
If he does this, it better be for 1 + options, or low enough $$ that they can write him off .
ANd make him earn a spot in the rotation. If he is this crafty vet, he can pitch out of the pen. Let Heilman out perform him in the spring to take the spot.
Livan, for the 6th/7th and long relief, Sanchez or whoever steps up for the 8th. And Heilman to the rotation.
sickening
I assume Omar is working hard to find pitchers, and still not mortgage the entire fututre of the team. Plus, it takes 2 to tango.
So, if he doesn’t make a huge, splashy big name deal, I give him a pass.
however, if he signs Livan for more than a mike-good contract (1 year incentive laden at the max) then I will call for his head.
Just a really terrible idea, and a horrible judge of talent. Anyone should be able to tell that he is decling fastl
hearing that cabrera and willis to the tigers?
Livan is a fat turd with a 5.00 ERA! For cryin out loud, start one of the youngsters before you sign this clown.
Jeez Lueez
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