In a recap of Day Two of the Winter Meetings for MLB.com, Marty Noble quotes a National League GM as saying…
“The Mets probably didn’t have enough to compete for any of the big names out there before they traded Milledge. Now it’s almost like they’re grasping at straws. They’re just too thin. Give Omar credit for trying, but it doesn’t look like they can be taken seriously.”
Meanwhile, during his spot with WFAN, SI.com’s Jon Heyman said the Mets had told the O’s they will do whatever is necessary to acquire Bedard, short of trading David Wright and Jose Reyes.
However, while the Mets may look to ‘re-shape’ their offer to the Orioles, such as including Pelfrey or Mulvey instead of Humber, Noble writes that Minaya is still reluctant to deal Pelfrey and Mulvey in the same package - or Gomez and Martinez in the same package, as well.
…amazing, because that doesn’t sound like, ‘whatever is necessary,’ like heyman suggests…look, if giving the O’s all four will net bedard, let alone splitting them up, personally, i would do it…yes, baltimore, take them all…leave me Ryan Church to play right, and leave me Phil Humber, to join Erik Bedard, Pedro Martinez, John Maine and Oliver Perez, and i’ll be more than satisfied, and you can have the rest, including gomez and martinez, who i expect to be solid players one day…
The thins is, in a post to his blog for the Cincinnati Enquirer, citing ‘several people he has talked to,’ John Fay writes that the Reds are serious about ‘going after’ Bedard, as well, and could offer Homer Bailey and Joey Votto, among others.
According to Fay, the O’s will certainly want Reds OF Jay Bruce, who was recently named the game’s top prospect by MiLB.com.
…so far today, the Reds, Mets, Blue Jays and Dodgers seemed to appear in the most rumors involving bedard, with ESPN noting a deal with los angeles may have been close, with names such as Matt Kemp and Jonathan Broxton being mentioned…
However, and fortunately for the Mets, Los Angeles beat-reporter Tony Jackson wrote to his blog, for the Daily News, that he finds it ‘hard to believe’ that the Dodgers will part with Broxton.
Additionally, at his blog for MLB.com, Jim Molony recently said, “Though the Dodgers are interested in Bedard, it is unlikely they would create holes at two important slots - starting right fielder (Kemp) and setup man (Broxton) – to get him.”
…there had been talk during that the day that the Blue Jays could look to move Alex Rios for a top-flight starting pitcher, like bedard…however…
According to Ken Rosenthal, at FoxSports.com, the chances of the Jays trading for Bedard are ‘extremely remote,’ since the O’s are unlikely to trade him within the division, ‘and the Jays cannot offer a strong enough package of prospects for the pitcher.’
…and this is where i have hope, because if the Blue Jays are out of the mix, with logic that will eliminate the Red Sox and Yankees, as well, all while the Reds have supposedly told teams that bruce is ‘untouchable,’ while the above reports, as well as most buzz, suggests that the Dodgers do not want to part with their top-tier of prospects, preferring instead to deal from James Loney and others, then i don’t understand why the Mets are out of the running, despite ‘being so thin.’…
{ 75 comments }
how exactly is that omar’s fault, considering only pelfrey and martinez were drafted during his watch…
Yeah….the fact that on Omar’s watch NOBODY thats any good has been drafted doesn’t reflect badly on him?
I’m sorry, a bunch of 16 year old kids don’t count. God knows what they can be.
Comments like that one will fuel the preception I’m seeing around the net that Metsblog is the new SNY/Mets propaganda wing.
uugh… and so it begins.
I love metsblog and I’ve been here for years, but you’ve got a point.
I don’t know about you, but I come here for the news, not Matt’s stellar commentary.
In fact, I could give a crap about what any writer not named Keith Law thinks. I know enough about baseball to make up my own mind.
You also have a good point (about the news vs. commentary).
I don’t know about Keith Law though. I have become so skeptical of rumor reporting that I can’t believe anything until after it’s actually happened.
Oh, I just meant from an analysis/commentary standpoint. And I only really like Law because we have similar viewpoints regarding baseball. So when he comments on a trade, player, or a game… I check him out. Often we’re on the same page, but when we differ, that’s when I take notice, and usually reconsider my own position.
Exactly. Scouting and Player development are a big problem for the Mets. How is it that the Red sox and Yankees, two teams that routinely pick at the bottom of the draft, can consitently come up with these attractive trade packages? The Mets have not made the most out of the draft since Omar took over and they have not done a great job of developing the talent they have. That is the real problem.
unless omar changed all of the managers and coaches in the minors it’s difficult to blame him for player develop. we’ll see about his drafting and minor league free agent signings in the years to come. omar has made some excellent trades and a few bad trades. with the current team the mets will contend for the nl title next year. competing in the ws is another story.
as much as the mets prospects are being killed in the press, their middle-level prospects flourished last year for other clubs: very good starter: bannister; excellent 8th inning reliever: bell; good middle reliever: lindstrom; pretty good catcher: flores (‘a’ ball to majors)
hopefully omar can pull off a starter or reliever to improve the team. if not, f-mart, gomez, mulvey, and pelfrey look good for the future. next year there are a few top pitcher available and lots of cash in the wilpons hands.
We need to find this year’s version of Oliver Perez.
Anyone here think we can get Zack Greinke from the Royals?
I have to say that I always thought of Matt as a homer more than anything, but that “how is this Omar’s fault” (which has now been deleted it seems) reall makes me question the validity of this site.
Here’s what’s Omar’s fault, and all of it leads to the Mets situation this year, even if it didn’t happen this year.
1) A team thin in pitching depth trades Bannister for a power relief arm. Forget that Bourgos got hurt, that’s not Omar’s fault, but we already had TWO power relief arms in Owens and Lindstrom.
2) Trade BOTH Lindstrom and Owens for absolutely nothing but this Vargas guy — a young starter with promise, kind of like, what’s that guy’s name? Right — BANNISTER!!!!
3) Trade Heath Bell for a bag of balls.
4) Let Flores get drafted away.
5) Trade Miledge for a catcher (of which we had two already, woulda been three perchance had the above Flores move not happened) and a right fielder who has mostl been a platoon player. Milledge was already playing right field and was under the control of the Mets for years to come.
Omar in the last year or so has undervalued his pitching (when he had it) and dealt low on Milledge.
I have no problem with trading prospects. But you have to get something for them. The simplest fact of the matter here is if last winter Omar had done no trading at all, and had pritected Flores, we would have had some combo of Lindstrom, Owens and Bell to have helped a beleagured bullpen at some point during the year, PLUS we would have controlled all three for years, making them tradeable or usable this off season when our prospects are thin. We would have had Bannister who could have started in the minors or the bullpen in ‘07 and been the guy to help make spot starts instead of Vargas, Park and Lawrence. Then this off season we’d have him to either trade in a package in a year where a young controlable pitcher gets you more than a mixed results reliever, or who we could keep and not have to worry about looking for a damn pitcher with a depleted farm system.
Yes, Omar’s drafts haven’t come to fruition yet, but he emptied the system of a fair amount of talent and got lesser talent back in every move. Every move.
THAT is how this is Omar’s fault.
And hey, I like the guy.
1) true except Burgos is 22 and Lindstrom/Ownes are 27/28
2) he traded Lindstrom and Owens (27 and 28 year old right handed career minor league relievers) for Vargas and Bostik (23 and 24 year old LEFT HANDED prospects with more upside)
3) Heath Bell was only worth a bag of balls. He thrived in his HOME town of SD
4) Flores .. whatever.. third year 21 year old class A players sometimes get swiped in rule 5.. blame it on Manny Acta
5) lets not right off trading a prospect who showed his flaws for two potentially valuable major league parts yet.. Lets wait until the All Star break at least
Cut Omar some slack.. hes making moves and isnt done yet. He;s literally the best thing to happen to this franchise since Frank Cashen.
I agree about the age thing, but he dealt away what he had for different versions of what he had. And they turned out in every case (so far, granted) to be lesser versions of what he had.
Well, Bill Madden was just on Scotty Ferrell’s show and said the Mets prospects are not very attractive to other GMs. Omar’s hands are tied.
He is going to be limited in what he can trade for. People just want trades, yet complain incessantly about them once they go through.
Take ‘em. Take ‘em all. The only guy of the bunch I’d be hesitant to give up is Martinez, who’s on an unprecedented track to the majors. With the Mets’ revenue stream, a guy like Mulvey, who might top out a bit above league average at a reasonable price, just isn’t as valuable as he is to teams with smaller revenue streams. The Mets can afford to pay some bucks to fill the back of the rotation.
The type of guy who is most valuable to the Mets is someone in the upper echelon of players at his position, like Wright, Beltran, Reyes, and, perhaps someday, Fernando Martinez. Bedard also fits into that group. None of the Mets other prospects have that type of ceiling.
There is absolutely no reason not to part with Pelfrey and Mulvey if it nets you Erik Bedard. I sincerely hope this is just part of the dance.
It has to be asked….how can the Yanks and Boston have such good farms when they always win and import FAs, while the Mets- who have EVERY ADVANTAGE THOSE CLUBS HAVE- have a pitiful system.
Actually, that one’s easy. The Red Sox and Yankees have done a much better job of drafting players in recent years. Drafting is a very imprecise science, but those two teams have done it very well.
Phil Hughes and Clay Bucholz were both drafted well after Humber and Pelfrey, respectively. Of course, the Yankees also passed on Bucholz, taking non-prospect CJ Henry instead.
Generally the Red Sox and Yankees are drafting prospects with eligibility left and paying them out of slot bonuses to entice them to go pro..
the commish has frowned upon this and Freddie Coupons has gone along with his edict to only signing bonuses based on pre determined slots
True that the Sox and Yanks have been able to get signability picks by going over slot, but the main guys–Hughes, Chamberlain, Bucholz, Lester–were just good picks.
The Mets have been playing ball because they’re hoping to get an All-star game once the new park opens. Minaya’s comments in this year’s BA top prospect list indicate that this policy might start to change:
Lester got the largest bonus EVER paid to a second round pick after he was a sophmore in College
Dustin Pedroia received a signing bonus of $575,000, Manny Delcarmen received one of $700,000, Clay Buchholz recieved $800,000 and Jacoby Ellsbury received $1.4 million.
Joba Chamberlain received a signing bonus of $1.1 million, Phil Hughes received one of $1.4 million, and Ian Kennedy received one of $2.25 million. Most recently, Yankees 2007 draft pick Andrew Brackman received a $3.35 million signing bonus. On top of his bonus, he’s being payed more than $1 million a year, for the next four years, to play in the Yankees farm system. Ching Mein Wong received 1.9 million.
and the Mets are scheduled to get the All star game in 2009 after the Yanks get it in 2008
sorry.. bad info.. Mets will get it in 2011 .. the yanks got it in 2008 by not “playing ball”
Freddie just needs to open the walet and lay out some signing bonuses
Clearly I was mistaken about Lester, although it was in 2002, long before the current regime took over. I suppose that’s why I didn’t remember it. Delcarmen–and why you’re going all the way back to 2000 for evidence of this is beyond me–signed for the same amount as the guy three picks after him, and only $45k more than the guy in front of him.
Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Bucholz all signed for slot.
Chamberlain fell because of injury concerns. Yes, he did get a bonus, but he was expected to be a top 10 pick, and it was tendinitis, knee surgery, and weight problems that caused him to fall. He only ended up signing for about 300k over slot, so I don’t think the analogy fits there.
Hughes signed for slot.
Brackman and Kennedy obviously fell because of their bonus demands, but I didn’t cite them because they’re irrelevant to my point. Though Brackman is generally viewed as a pretty big project, so who knows if that will even pan out.
At any rate, there’s a difference between getting a big bonus and getting drafted by a team because no one else can afford you. The Mets didn’t pass on those players because they were over slot, the Mets passed because their scouts didn’t do as good a job as the Yankees and Red Sox scouts (though I don’t think anyone at the time would have taken Hughes over Humber, or Bucholz over Pelfrey), or, in some cases (e.g. Chamberlain, Kennedy, and Brackman), because they didn’t have a pick that high. Or, in Lester’s case, because they decided to draft Scott Kazmir.
I agree that the Yankees and Red Sox have done a much better job of using their financial advantage in the draft, and I’m hopeful that the Mets will start moving in that direction this year. But the greater issue has been that the Yankees and Sox have drafted well , and that still stands. the best players on this list–Hughes, Chamberlain, Bucholz–support that statement.
As for the all-star games, the 2011 game hasn’t been awarded yet, and the Mets are in competition with the D-backs, and probably the Phillies. And the Yankees didn’t get the ‘09 game because of their draft strategy, they got it because they contribute more revenue to MLB than any team in the universe, and because theirs will be the only new AL stadium not to have yet hosted one.
Because the Yankees and Sox don’t bend to the commissioner’s “keep to slot money” plea like the Mets do.
Because we draft lousy-ass players.
The Mets have learned something for the future. Keep some trade chips down in the organization for them to dominate. I guess a 21 year old hitting 280 in AAA with blazing speed and an 18 year old hitting about the same in AA doesn’t get you points with other clubs. Leave them low and have them hit 330 so they can look more attractive to other teams. What a joke. Oh well, some of the best trades made are the ones that never get done. Hopefully they pan out and the other teams regret it.
matt, the more i think about it, the less i think we have any business trading away alot of good prospects for bedard, who might be great and might not be any better than what we have in maine and perez and pedro. saying that you will give up anything other than wright or reyes sounds like it is coming from a place of desperation and not from a place of reason. i hoped that we would get an ace just like every other met fan, but i have to say, i’d rather not trade away 4 or 5 of our prospects for ONE pitcher. you just know that at least one of our prospects will blossom and we’ll be beating our heads against the wall. for heaven’s sake, let’s get real here. the mets are not as bad as some of us say. we are a formidable presence in the national league east and will be for years to come if we take the chance to let our prospects develop. just because the media (who seem to always have it in for the mets anyway) and the other teams in mlb say that our prospects aren’t so hot means nothing. if you put down our prospects, you can pry more of them out of us to make the deal. it’s an old ploy and i hope we don’t fall for it. i’ve said it before, and here goes again: santana and haren and bedard were once prospects as well. somebody hung on long enough to give them a chance to blossom, and i hope the mets have the good sense to let our prospects develop as well.
What about trying for a deal with Toronto? Maybe something that gets us Burnett and Rios? I don’t know what we would offer, as it seems the consensus is that our prospects are garbage… At this point, why not just throw money at Silva and/or Livan, and go to battle with our guys? The way I see it, if they step up it will only help their value. If they stink it up, how much can it hurt? Everyone seems to think they’re not good anyway.
I had the same thought, except they might be one of the few teams that would be interested in Delgado if the Mets ate his contract. He’d definitely help keep the fanbase happy if they’re moving Rios, getting such a familiar and well liked face. And they’re stuck right now with Lyle Overbay as their #1 first baseman. What about Delgado, Pelfrey, Mulvey, and Gomez? Gomez is basically in exactly the same spot Rios was at that age.
Preception?
Anyway, I don’t want to give up the farm. I still think patience is a virtue, even if we don’t contend in ‘08.
Pelfrey, Mulvey, Gomez, AND Martinez?
Who replaces Alou in LF and Pedro and Duque in the rotation when they leave?
Are we just going to plug holes with free agency only to see others open?
This is why the Mets never win anything. They get a taste of success and then make rash moves.
What happens if Bedard goes down? Heck, what happens if anyone goes down? Do you want Ben Johnson getting serious time in the OF?
When Duque goes down, who starts in his place? Anyone?
But no, no one wants to think about things like depth and life beyond 2008. Apparently there will be no baseball after 2008.
So yeah, let’s just trade everyone. But you better pray for a WS because this franchise is headed for the toilet after 2008.
Bullpen is more important right now. Lets get to the playoffs again. That was a good feeling.
I agree! It really doesn;t look like the pitching is going to be there for us to contend in ‘08, and I have no problem watching one go by rather than mortgage the future on something that likely won;t be enough anyway.
Patience is a virtue. The thing that made losing tolerable in 82 and 83 was knowing the talent coming through. the thing that made it intolerable during the Mo Vaughan years was there was no end in sight.
If FMart is this good, KEEP HIM. Draft well with all our picks this year and be smart with money and prospects and we too can be as successful as the Sox very very quickly.
the problem is if we do package all four (f-mart, gomez and pelfrey, mulvey) just to land an ace, in a few years we will be stuck in the same situation we are in now. dont screw us over omar, play it smart, sign livan and colon and next year go all out to sign one of the many aces that will be free agents.
What are all these “many aces” that will be free agents?
ACES GENERALLY DON’T BECOME FAs
They’ll be shipped away to a team that will sign them to an extension.
And the 1 guy who gets on the market won’t be a Met- someone else will outbid them.
Can Rick Peterson please help Pelfrey develop some type of breaking pitch (perhaps a changeup)? It doesn’t make sense for a college pitcher drafted in the first round to throw nothing but fastballs. The potential is there. If Peterson is so brilliant, Pelfrey should develop into a front line starter.
Pelfrey should easily be able to do what John Maine does. He throws harder and has the same fearless attitude.
Well, I have to say Pelfrey is anything but fearless. Pitchers that are always behind in the count are the definition of scared.
Pelfrey has shown me nothing. I am not impressed with him in the least. Frankly, I find Humber more intriguing. His bad start in September started well but he was gassed early. That’s because Willie kept him on his butt for three weeks before throwing him into an emergency start. Humber was completely mishandled.
One of the main reasons it seems like Omar has not “drafted well” is that he’s built up the team we have right now through signing free agents, and that means losing first round draft picks. I do’nt think we’ve had one in 3 years.
Either way, I’m against sending away the farm for one player. The whole ” anything but Reyes and Wright” is not a good idea. I do’nt think this team is in a position where if we add a good pitcher we suddenly become this team that will be great and contending for world series titles for years to come, especially if we decimate our farm. Sure, if we can make a reasonable deal, great, but that seems pretty unlikely at this point. I think sticking with the plan, letting these kids develop, will actually mean us having a better team down the road, in 2-3 years, then giving everyone up for one guy, which in itself is a huge risk.
we gave up a first round pick for Pedro, I can deal with that one.
we didn’t have a first round pick in ‘05 (pedro), ‘06 (Wagner) and ‘07 (Alou), Alou is the only questionable one. As for what I would do this offseason, is like I said, acquire a good pitcher if the deal is reasonable, which seems unlikely ( I would make Fernando Martinez off limits) or, trade for our closer of the future, namely Huston Street. One Haren is gone, the A’s will clean house and I think Street could be had for a decent package.
I like the developing the farm too… which is one of the reasons why I wish we kept Milledge.
Unfortunately, Omar is now working to keep his job, and he’s feeling the heat to make a move. That’s what scary.
The truth is, he’s going to have to have nerves of steel to keep basically the team we have and hope that everyone pulls his weight.
I actually don’t think Omar was the one who wanted to get rid of Milledge. I have a feeling Willie couldn’t stand the kid. He’s exactly not Willie’s type of player.
Also, fun fact, Ryan Church had a higher extra-base hit rate in 2007 than any Met. And he’s a much much better defender, which isn’t such a bad idea with all the FB pitchers on the staff.
I’m hoping Ryan Church still has some upside left to him. ie. learning to hit left handers.
Other than that, if we didn’t have to lose Milledge in the deal, I would be ok with Church being the starting RF in 2008.
Lastly, I have a hard time thinking that Willie would want to get rid of Milledge. I think Willie took pride in teaching Milledge how to play the game “the right way.” Also, African-American ball players usually want to see more African-Americans play baseball… so I’m sure Willie was excited to have a young talent like Milledge under his wings.
I mean, I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that Willie liked Milledge just because they’re both black. I’m Jewish, but I don’t like every Jewish person I know. And even if Willie thinks it’s good for Milledge to be in MLB, it doesn’t mean he wants the kid on his team.
Think about Willie’s attitude and how much he talks about playing the game the right way. Then think about Milledge posing after a homer the second to last day of the season or getting ejected in the middle of a tight pennant race. It’s just so much the opposite of everything Willie preaches, and it was pretty clear Milledge didn’t have any interest in changing.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Willie had something to do with the trade.
Mind you, I still don’t like the trade myself, but I’ve warmed to it slightly in the days since it happened.
What the Mets need to do is scout better with regard to the draft and international signings. I do not know who the Mets director of the draft is or has been in the recent past, but I have been extremely underwhelmed by their performance in the draft. The current philosophy of taking college relievers with earlier picks is foolish. The Mets should focus on college starters or high school kids with high ceilings. As someone who grew up near an Expos farm team, I would emphatically advocate finding whoever ran their farm system in the 1990s and hiring them.
Furthermore, the Mets should stop listening to the commissioners office about signing bonus issue. It cost us Pedro Beato. Next year, the Mets have the 18 and 20 picks in the first round and the possibility of Boras clients i.e. Rick Porcello being available is high. Therefore, the Mets should be prepared to spend money and bolster the farm.
didn’t rick sign this year
On MLBtraderumors.com they’re saying the Jays are shopping Rios. Maybe Delgado could get some nostalgia points there if we eat his contract? They could use the upgrade there. We could send along a pitcher and Carlos Gomez and they basically get a restart on Rios’s career. What about Delgado, Gomez, Pelfrey, and Mulvey for Rios and Burnett? Not enough? It’d be a sweet buy.
taking Delgado out of the deal would be a start, lol. He’s really really awful.
Alright, yes, Delgado had an awful year, but until then he was one of the most productive hitters in baseball over his career. His numbers border on HOF caliber. He has a career .935 OPS. Is he the player he once was? No. Is he going to be exactly the player we saw in 2007 the rest of his career? No. I doubt any expert would be surprised if he put up 30 HR and 110 RBIs in 2008. 25 – 90 wouldn’t be a surprise either, but that’s probably the reasonable expected range.
Besides, I don’t think many teams would be particularly interested in Delgado, but it would be good PR for Toronto, and if it didn’t cost them much it would upgrade their team.
Only stupid GM that would take Delgado runs the Texas Rangers. Might not be a bad idea to look at Otsuka.
That’s what everyone was saying about Jim Thome after his age 34 season too.
we should just keep him then, lol. I have nothing good to say about Delgado. He gets bored you know, he’s so good hitting 240. I agree that we should try to dump him anywhere.
if rios and burnett are really available we should try and see if we can do something with that…..we gotta try n get someone off the radar cuz everyone keeps bidding up to these pitchers that havent proved ne thing yet…………………………………mlb.com said that blue jays said they would make rios available for lincecum…..i say we try to get rios n burnett and sign some else via free agency
how come the yankees decided one day not long ago to revamp their awful farm system, and all of sudden, they’re stocked…maybe this is how omar and co. should “imitate” the yanks.
they’re not stocked, they’re just like us, top heavy, except they have two guys who really happened to pan out (Joba and Hughes) and we have two guys who haven’t done much (Pelfrey and Humber) for different reasons.
hughes projects to be a no. 2, chamberlain to be at least a 2. meanwhile pelfrey may be a 4 and humber a 5. I don’t think this is a case of the yankees better hyping their prospects. if future free agent classes are as bad as this one (and it looks like they will be), omar has to focus on the draft. that’s the only way to get the flexibility to either develop from within or trade for established players.
did i say they do a better job of hyping? No, i said the difference between our farm systems is they have two pitchers who they drafted who really panned out very well, and we have two pitchers (two pitchers a lot of teams coveted at the time and were highly rated at the time, whatever that means) who haven’t panned out. I do’nt know if that makes their farm system “stocked” and ours not. There’s more luck in that sort of thing then a lot of people around here are willing to realize. Does it have to do with scouting? Sure, but believe it, luck does play into it. If the Yankees had the 3rd pick in the 2004 draft, would they have drafted Hughes? Or Humber? I seriously doubt they draft Hughes at that point.
I don’t think he’s saying they’re just better hyped. I think his point is that for whatever reasons, the Yankees pitchers have panned out better. It’s worth noting that Humber and Pelfrey were viewed as being among the best pitchers in the draft their years (Pelfrey was, in fact, considered easily the best in his).
Meanwhile, Chamberlain was viewed as a major project at the time with little chance of panning out, while Hughes was picked after 22 other players, only 5 of whom have shown signs of panning out thus far.
Drafting is a very imprecise science, and the Yankees have done a very good job in recent years, compared not just to the Mets, but to all of baseball.
Who cares if it is Omar’s fault. But if Omar thinks anyone is buying his nonsense of how they are a better team going into Spring Training this year as opposed to last, his job should definitely hinge on winning the division. No division, he and Willie can walk off into the night.
We deserve better.
this is just. awful.
no excuse for this really.
Livan to the rescue?! lol
I honestly think when it comes down to it and omar has one last chance to give a final offer for bedard….he’s gonna put a real strong offer on the table (Gomez, Martinez, Heilman, Pelfrey….maybe Mulvey or Humber too)
One thing omar has always done is whenever there is a need….he usually fills it (Delgado and loduca trade….Nady for Hernandez…..Milledge trade)….and this team needs an ace.
Like I said i have faith Omar is gonna make a serious run at this guy….when he wants someone specifically he usually gets him whether through free agency or trades. (ie. Beltran, Pedro, Delgado)…He was sooo close on getting oswalt too.
This idea that Omar isnt aggressively going for an ace is ridiculous…..i know the stuff hes been saying, but what do you wnt him to say? “yes we want bedard cause maine and perez arent good enough? We are very desparate right now, you know what im sayin?”….come on
Now whether we can actually get Bedard is another question but I think Omar will make a strong run at him…and hopefully the orioles like our package the best.
p.s. Can you imagine out of nowhere….”mets are frontrunners to land Santana” lol….just a thought.
O’s never make any trades. Last trade they made, we stole Maine from them. Thank You Jim Duquette, how did he ever get another job. I guess Angelos is related to James Dolan.
and now espn is reporting that the tigers have traded for cabrera and dontrelle. holy crap.
Angels must be pissed.
Top 2009-10 free agents:
Brandon Webb (Diamondbacks)
Josh Beckett (Red Sox)
Erik Bedard (Orioles)
John Lackey (Angels)
Tim Hudson (Braves)
Dontrelle Willis (Marlins-Tigers)
Rich Harden (Athletics)
Kelvim Escobar (Angels)
Jason Schmidt (Dodgers)
Chris Capuano (Brewers)
Cliff Lee (Indians)
Nate Robertson (Tigers)
John Patterson (Nationals)
Jarrod Washburn (Mariners)
Vicente Padilla (Rangers)
Jason Marquis (Cubs)
Jose Contreras (White Sox)
Adam Eaton (Phillies)
Miguel Batista (Mariners)
Joel Pineiro (Cardinals)
Brandon Backe (Astros)
Claudio Vargas (Brewers)
Josh Towers (Blue Jays)
I’d say there are a few on this list worth looking at
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Dude… 2 years later? haha…
I remember when we published this same list 2 years ago, and we had Barry Zito, Carlos Zambrano, Oswalt, and others on it.
I imagine that of this list, the only pitcher we’ll be interested in who will actually be available is John Patterson – assuming that the Nationals still suck and he wants out. I think the others (Lackey, Beckett, Bedard if he is traded, Webb) will probably sign an extension to whichever team they are on.
Webb, Beckett, Hudson, Bedard, Lackey, Willis will re-sign
I’m shocked Matt has gone off the deep end and wants to get rid of all of the prospects. You just can’t drain the farm system even if its full on prospects who aren’t elite. You need a farm system to fill in and restock the major league club as players get old and leave. If you put all your guys in one deal you hurt yourself in the coming years because you have no one to fill critical slots.
Every year teams lose guys to injury or free agency and you need to fill them with cheap, young alternatives. Pedro, Duque, Delgado, Alou, Castillo etc….if they go down you need guys to come up and play a part.
You get rid of all three of the outfield prospects who comes up if they suffer a rash of injuries to the outfield like they had last year?? You want to see Gerald Williams and Rickee Ledee playing everyday?
If there is no Pelfrey/Humber/Mulvey, who comes up when Duque gets hurt or if Pedro gets hurt?? You want to see Jose Lima and Jeremi Gonzalez.
You don’t want to be in a position where the only position changes you make year to year is through free agency as well. As much as I want a big time starter, I’m willing to go with Maine and Perez with the hope they progress even more and become consistent, a rejuvinated Pedro and Duque (hopefully the third time is the charm and his injury vacation is not in October). And if they can get a Livian or Blanton to take over Glavines innings
I have to believe this team that was the consensus best in the NL mid-September will play with pride and anger about wht they did last year. With a full year of Pedro and Castillo and the improved up the middle defense, return of Sanchez and some tweaking here and there they will be back in the playoffs. And maybe a few of these prospects no one wants will show they are real players, helping the club this year and maybe becoming better chips down the road this year or next.
the thing is, after seeing the market for starting pitching after this offseason, many pitchers will see how huge the market is and how much money there is to be made out there
Does anybody agree that we should dangle Perez out there just to see what teams are willing to offer.
I think one of the Mets problems is that they are never “sellers” They’ve always been afraid to say, “This ain’t our year” and collect prospects for their veterans. ‘07 isn’t a good example, obviously because we should have taken the division. But if you go back to the year we traded Kazmir. We were a very flawed team that year and the only reason we seemed in it was the Braves were struggling a bit. But anybody who looked at that roster objectively wouldn’t have come to the “let’s go for it” conclusion.
That year instead of trading prospects we should have traded for prospects. We should have traded Leiter to a team in the mix desperate for pitching. We should have traded Franco.
I think we need to look and see how 08 starts to unfold, and if it isn;t going well, unload some players for prospects. Keep Reyes and Wright and Beltran (who you probably couldn’t trade if you wanted to) but if we’re struggling, become seller. Get prospects for Wagner for a team in contention. Get prospects for Alou for a team looking for a bat for the second half. Get prospects for Castillo and Delgado if you can.
There are plenty of teams out there that ave rebuilt quickly. And if you start with a nucleus of Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Ollie and Maine, the Mets could get good quick again too, especially with picks #18, 22 and the sandwich pick in this year’s draft.
But please don;t unload any more young talent and get so little in return. It just makes no sense.
I agree, but I’d still dangle Ollie and Maine right now just to see what offers are thrown their way. Curiosity never hurt anyone.
I wish we traded guys like lieter, franco, and maybe even piazza that year. We would have been stocked up. Instead we decide to go for it, and make the lousiest move possible.
Matt, you’re losing on a credibility on this “can’t blame Omar” BS. Omar has wasted a lot of high draft picks on middle relievers. Have you ever heard of a high prospect set-up man? Only one I’ve heard of was our great trade for Royce Ring, which segue’s to my second point.
Jim Duquette screwed us royally by getting absolutely nothing during the 2003 fire sale. The best prospects we brought in were Victor Diaz and Royce Ring. The reality, since drafting Kazmir in 2002, Mets scouting/development has been terrible, spanning 3 GMs.
Each of our top draft picks over the last 5 drafts are about good enough to get us a 4th OF, and a .235 catcher.
You really should be a Yankee fan, I don’t think Hank Steinbrenner could’ve written your post any better.
I guess you weren’t impressed with the Kazmir deal
Omar is expecting these “middle relievers” to contribute ASAP.. somewhat like Joe Smith who spent like 1/2 a season in the minors after being drafted as a reliever out of college.
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