Comments on: Buzz: The Mets are Thin, but still like Bedard http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/ Latest Mets News, Links, Rumors and Opinion Fri, 04 Feb 2011 21:22:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Sethuel http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55714 Sethuel Wed, 05 Dec 2007 07:16:22 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55714 Clearly I was mistaken about Lester, although it was in 2002, long before the current regime took over. I suppose that's why I didn't remember it. Delcarmen--and why you're going all the way back to 2000 for evidence of this is beyond me--signed for the same amount as the guy three picks after him, and only $45k more than the guy in front of him. Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Bucholz all signed for slot. Chamberlain fell because of injury concerns. Yes, he did get a bonus, but he was expected to be a top 10 pick, and it was tendinitis, knee surgery, and weight problems that caused him to fall. He only ended up signing for about 300k over slot, so I don't think the analogy fits there. Hughes signed for slot. Brackman and Kennedy obviously fell because of their bonus demands, but I didn't cite them because they're irrelevant to my point. Though Brackman is generally viewed as a pretty big project, so who knows if that will even pan out. At any rate, there's a difference between getting a big bonus and getting drafted by a team because no one else can afford you. The Mets didn't pass on those players because they were over slot, the Mets passed because their scouts didn't do as good a job as the Yankees and Red Sox scouts (though I don't think anyone at the time would have taken Hughes over Humber, or Bucholz over Pelfrey), or, in some cases (e.g. Chamberlain, Kennedy, and Brackman), because they didn't have a pick that high. Or, in Lester's case, because they decided to draft Scott Kazmir. I agree that the Yankees and Red Sox have done a much better job of using their financial advantage in the draft, and I'm hopeful that the Mets will start moving in that direction this year. But the greater issue has been that the Yankees and Sox have <b>drafted well</b> , and that still stands. the best players on this list--Hughes, Chamberlain, Bucholz--support that statement. As for the all-star games, the 2011 game hasn't been awarded yet, and the Mets are in competition with the D-backs, and probably the Phillies. And the Yankees didn't get the '09 game because of their draft strategy, they got it because they contribute more revenue to MLB than any team in the universe, and because theirs will be the only new AL stadium not to have yet hosted one. Clearly I was mistaken about Lester, although it was in 2002, long before the current regime took over. I suppose that’s why I didn’t remember it. Delcarmen–and why you’re going all the way back to 2000 for evidence of this is beyond me–signed for the same amount as the guy three picks after him, and only $45k more than the guy in front of him.

Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Bucholz all signed for slot.

Chamberlain fell because of injury concerns. Yes, he did get a bonus, but he was expected to be a top 10 pick, and it was tendinitis, knee surgery, and weight problems that caused him to fall. He only ended up signing for about 300k over slot, so I don’t think the analogy fits there.

Hughes signed for slot.

Brackman and Kennedy obviously fell because of their bonus demands, but I didn’t cite them because they’re irrelevant to my point. Though Brackman is generally viewed as a pretty big project, so who knows if that will even pan out.

At any rate, there’s a difference between getting a big bonus and getting drafted by a team because no one else can afford you. The Mets didn’t pass on those players because they were over slot, the Mets passed because their scouts didn’t do as good a job as the Yankees and Red Sox scouts (though I don’t think anyone at the time would have taken Hughes over Humber, or Bucholz over Pelfrey), or, in some cases (e.g. Chamberlain, Kennedy, and Brackman), because they didn’t have a pick that high. Or, in Lester’s case, because they decided to draft Scott Kazmir.

I agree that the Yankees and Red Sox have done a much better job of using their financial advantage in the draft, and I’m hopeful that the Mets will start moving in that direction this year. But the greater issue has been that the Yankees and Sox have drafted well , and that still stands. the best players on this list–Hughes, Chamberlain, Bucholz–support that statement.

As for the all-star games, the 2011 game hasn’t been awarded yet, and the Mets are in competition with the D-backs, and probably the Phillies. And the Yankees didn’t get the ’09 game because of their draft strategy, they got it because they contribute more revenue to MLB than any team in the universe, and because theirs will be the only new AL stadium not to have yet hosted one.

]]> By: jayhorowitz http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55696 jayhorowitz Wed, 05 Dec 2007 06:56:32 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55696 I wish we traded guys like lieter, franco, and maybe even piazza that year. We would have been stocked up. Instead we decide to go for it, and make the lousiest move possible. I wish we traded guys like lieter, franco, and maybe even piazza that year. We would have been stocked up. Instead we decide to go for it, and make the lousiest move possible.

]]> By: BiggieSmalls http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55662 BiggieSmalls Wed, 05 Dec 2007 06:12:57 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55662 Omar is expecting these "middle relievers" to contribute ASAP.. somewhat like Joe Smith who spent like 1/2 a season in the minors after being drafted as a reliever out of college. Omar is expecting these “middle relievers” to contribute ASAP.. somewhat like Joe Smith who spent like 1/2 a season in the minors after being drafted as a reliever out of college.

]]> By: squad http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55661 squad Wed, 05 Dec 2007 06:12:54 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55661 Oh, I just meant from an analysis/commentary standpoint. And I only really like Law because we have similar viewpoints regarding baseball. So when he comments on a trade, player, or a game... I check him out. Often we're on the same page, but when we differ, that's when I take notice, and usually reconsider my own position. Oh, I just meant from an analysis/commentary standpoint. And I only really like Law because we have similar viewpoints regarding baseball. So when he comments on a trade, player, or a game… I check him out. Often we’re on the same page, but when we differ, that’s when I take notice, and usually reconsider my own position.

]]> By: BiggieSmalls http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55657 BiggieSmalls Wed, 05 Dec 2007 06:08:38 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55657 sorry.. bad info.. Mets will get it in 2011 .. the yanks got it in 2008 by not "playing ball" Freddie just needs to open the walet and lay out some signing bonuses sorry.. bad info.. Mets will get it in 2011 .. the yanks got it in 2008 by not “playing ball”

Freddie just needs to open the walet and lay out some signing bonuses

]]> By: BiggieSmalls http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55653 BiggieSmalls Wed, 05 Dec 2007 06:06:31 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55653 and the Mets are scheduled to get the All star game in 2009 after the Yanks get it in 2008 and the Mets are scheduled to get the All star game in 2009 after the Yanks get it in 2008

]]> By: BiggieSmalls http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55651 BiggieSmalls Wed, 05 Dec 2007 06:04:39 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55651 Lester got the largest bonus EVER paid to a second round pick after he was a sophmore in College Dustin Pedroia received a signing bonus of $575,000, Manny Delcarmen received one of $700,000, Clay Buchholz recieved $800,000 and Jacoby Ellsbury received $1.4 million. Joba Chamberlain received a signing bonus of $1.1 million, Phil Hughes received one of $1.4 million, and Ian Kennedy received one of $2.25 million. Most recently, Yankees 2007 draft pick Andrew Brackman received a $3.35 million signing bonus. On top of his bonus, he's being payed more than $1 million a year, for the next four years, to play in the Yankees farm system. Ching Mein Wong received 1.9 million. Lester got the largest bonus EVER paid to a second round pick after he was a sophmore in College

Dustin Pedroia received a signing bonus of $575,000, Manny Delcarmen received one of $700,000, Clay Buchholz recieved $800,000 and Jacoby Ellsbury received $1.4 million.

Joba Chamberlain received a signing bonus of $1.1 million, Phil Hughes received one of $1.4 million, and Ian Kennedy received one of $2.25 million. Most recently, Yankees 2007 draft pick Andrew Brackman received a $3.35 million signing bonus. On top of his bonus, he’s being payed more than $1 million a year, for the next four years, to play in the Yankees farm system. Ching Mein Wong received 1.9 million.

]]> By: landyg21 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55647 landyg21 Wed, 05 Dec 2007 05:56:44 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55647 I agree, but I'd still dangle Ollie and Maine right now just to see what offers are thrown their way. Curiosity never hurt anyone. I agree, but I’d still dangle Ollie and Maine right now just to see what offers are thrown their way. Curiosity never hurt anyone.

]]> By: Tidewater http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55646 Tidewater Wed, 05 Dec 2007 05:54:17 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55646 I agree about the age thing, but he dealt away what he had for different versions of what he had. And they turned out in every case (so far, granted) to be lesser versions of what he had. I agree about the age thing, but he dealt away what he had for different versions of what he had. And they turned out in every case (so far, granted) to be lesser versions of what he had.

]]> By: Tidewater http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55641 Tidewater Wed, 05 Dec 2007 05:47:04 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/04/buzz-the-mets-are-thin-but-still-like-bedard/#comment-55641 I think one of the Mets problems is that they are never "sellers" They've always been afraid to say, "This ain't our year" and collect prospects for their veterans. '07 isn't a good example, obviously because we should have taken the division. But if you go back to the year we traded Kazmir. We were a very flawed team that year and the only reason we seemed in it was the Braves were struggling a bit. But anybody who looked at that roster objectively wouldn't have come to the "let's go for it" conclusion. That year instead of trading prospects we should have traded for prospects. We should have traded Leiter to a team in the mix desperate for pitching. We should have traded Franco. I think we need to look and see how 08 starts to unfold, and if it isn;t going well, unload some players for prospects. Keep Reyes and Wright and Beltran (who you probably couldn't trade if you wanted to) but if we're struggling, become seller. Get prospects for Wagner for a team in contention. Get prospects for Alou for a team looking for a bat for the second half. Get prospects for Castillo and Delgado if you can. There are plenty of teams out there that ave rebuilt quickly. And if you start with a nucleus of Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Ollie and Maine, the Mets could get good quick again too, especially with picks #18, 22 and the sandwich pick in this year's draft. But please don;t unload any more young talent and get so little in return. It just makes no sense. I think one of the Mets problems is that they are never “sellers” They’ve always been afraid to say, “This ain’t our year” and collect prospects for their veterans. ’07 isn’t a good example, obviously because we should have taken the division. But if you go back to the year we traded Kazmir. We were a very flawed team that year and the only reason we seemed in it was the Braves were struggling a bit. But anybody who looked at that roster objectively wouldn’t have come to the “let’s go for it” conclusion.

That year instead of trading prospects we should have traded for prospects. We should have traded Leiter to a team in the mix desperate for pitching. We should have traded Franco.

I think we need to look and see how 08 starts to unfold, and if it isn;t going well, unload some players for prospects. Keep Reyes and Wright and Beltran (who you probably couldn’t trade if you wanted to) but if we’re struggling, become seller. Get prospects for Wagner for a team in contention. Get prospects for Alou for a team looking for a bat for the second half. Get prospects for Castillo and Delgado if you can.

There are plenty of teams out there that ave rebuilt quickly. And if you start with a nucleus of Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Ollie and Maine, the Mets could get good quick again too, especially with picks #18, 22 and the sandwich pick in this year’s draft.

But please don;t unload any more young talent and get so little in return. It just makes no sense.

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