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In an update to ESPN.com, Peter Gammons says he is sensing that the Twins will not trade Johan Santana.
However, during a recent appearance on WFAN, SI.com’s Jon Heyman said the following…
“I’m hearing that the Mets have jumped back in on the Santana sweepstakes. Boston is still the favorite,
they’re still talking, but they’re not agreeing on players. Most people feel their offer is fairly underwhelming, and I can understand why Minnesota is listening to other teams, including the Mets.
The Mets are steadfast in not including Jose Reyes, but I have been told by a Minnesota person that the Mets have no shot without Reyes. But, I think the Twins were expecting to get two of three from Jacoby Ellsbury, Clay Buccholz or Jon Lester, or two of three of Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy, and they were not able to do it.
“I think the Twins are committed to trading him, I think they’re gonna trade him. I’m not convinced that it will happen here. I still think Boston is leading, until I hear otherwise…but, the Mets are in it, they’ve talked to the Twins and they’re trying. They do have some good prospects.
“I just think the Twins felt they could get what they wanted from the Yankees and Red Sox, but once the Yankees dropped out, Boston had no urgency to do more. I still say that Boston is talking to the Twins, and it could happen today, but the Mets are hopeful I believe.
“They don’t have any one to match Lester or Ellsbury, but if you give them Kevin Mulvey, Mike Pelfrey, Carlos Gomez or Fernando Martinez, you’ve given them the second, third and fourth best pieces they can get. So, they have a chance.”
To listen to Heyman’s entire interview, during which he also discusses rumored deals for Dan Haren and Erik Bedard, who will not sign an extension with the O’s, go to WFAN.com.
Speaking of Heyman, in his latest column for SI.com, he lists three reasons why it will be very, very difficult for a team to acquire Bedard from the O’s.
…Update…2:40 pm…
According to Ken Rosenthal, at FOXSports.com, the Mariners will resume their effort to trade for Santana, especially if they do not sign Hiroki Kuroda.
…from what i can gather, the Cubs and M’s are the front-runners to land kuroda…
It’s a nice change to hear someone actually value Mets Prospects
just another way for the twins to stoke the fire for the red sox or yanks.
Someone set me straight. Wasn’t Heyman on WFAN the other day saying that the Mets prospects just weren’t that good? And also said that Mets fans are the only ones who are high on Milledge?
Cause if so, it’s strange and hypocritical for him to say good things about Gomez and Martinez now.
Just to play Devil’s advocate – no one every said bad things about Gomez and Martinez. Its our other prospects that don’t cut it. Minnesota loves Gomez
Heyman is a sphincter
The Twins are just saying the Mets are back in it to get the Red Sox nervous.
Why would that matter? The Sox lose nothing by not getting Santana, unless he ends up with the Yanks. They already have a very stable, if not top notch rotation, and they can replenish it from with it, with Bucholtz and Lester…They have no reason to sweeten up the offer.
Mets should trade MAINE and prospeccts for SANTANA.
Maine is what other teams are looking for and we need a bonafide number 1 starter.
I agree, but it doesn’t hurt the Twins to say there is another bidder with money – especially now that the Yanks are out of it. The worst that can happen is the Sox say take-it-or-leave-it (which seems to be essentially where they are at now).
I get the feeling that with the Yankees (allegedly) out of it, the Sox are not as inclined to bet the farm on Santana. So the Twins are trying what they can to stoke their interest.
“Why would that matter? The Sox lose nothing by not getting Santana, unless he ends up with the Yanks.”
Correcto-mundo!!!!!
Maine was our best pitcher last year. Do not trade Maine. He’s the number 2 guy you want behind the the number 1 guy we all want to get.
If they had to include one or the other, I would prefer they trade Perez to Maine. Sure Ollie could be magnificent at times, but Johnny was much more consistent and far less of a head case.
The Twins actually are sort of foolish to trade him right now in my opinion. The Yanks are out of it, the Red Sox pckage is not all that enticing, and come july when the Yanks and Sox are running neck and neck in the AL east Santana is even more of a commodity. Meanwhile, the AL central is getting better with the tigers making the splash they needed to to catch the Indians, and Minny could have the best one two punch in baseball with Santana and Liriano. Lose him and they will finish behind the Royals and there wont be any fans interested in opening a new park. Their owner is a billionaire, he can easily afford Santana, but he does not want to pay him and thats created this whole issue.
As for our mets, i am going to say the same thing that i have been saying for weeks now. Do not trade the kids. Sign Carlos Silva giving you 6 or 7 guys to fill five rotation spots(Pedro, Maine, Perez, Silva, Pelfrey, Humber, Duque) and if you get 15 wins per spor from one through five and another 20 from the pen, thats 95 wins and hello playoffs and hello 2009 with four starters all under thirty and three able to throw over 90. Relax people, and remember it took the biggest collapse in baseball history, an event caused by a multitude of factors, to knock us out of the playoffs last year. We are not that bad. Oh, and we need one more outfielder cuz Moses(spelled wrong on purpose)Alou is going to get hurt. The guy runs with the grace of the Stanford Cardinal tree for crying out loud. I live in binghamton and can hear his hammys squeaking as he shakes and bakes down the line.
Heyman wouldn’t have a job if he kept reporting that nothing was going on.
These reporters change their statements every hour or so, there’s no stock in anything they say. Random people online have as much credence as they do, especially Peter Gammons what’s he 0 for 35 this week?
Gammons, what an idi0t.
They spread these rumors to keep everyone’s attentions. That’s how they make their money. Otherwise, they’d be jobless
Here’s Heyman’s SI piece on Mets getting in on Santana:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/12/05/santana.update/
Whatever it takes. Just get it over with. Like Matt said pull it like a band aid. Short of Reyes and Wright of course. Gomez, Pelfrey, Church, Humber, Mulvey, Heilman, even Martinez. The Mets need an ace to win now. We’re not going to win a championship without one. Maines a solid 2, perez is a 3 … pedro and el duque can be 4 and 5. Not too bad and still have a solid lineup
Maine’s not a solid # 2. Pedro is still a #2 until he shows otherwise. I don’t think Maine will ever be a solid #2. He’s a solid #3 at best someday.
A solid # 3 at best someday? Are you serious? 15 wins, 3.91 ERA, and 180 Ks are better than a lot of #2s in the game today.
Logan’s on cr4ck. John Maine is one of the best #2’s in the league. Short of the two ace combos, who’s better than Maine? And at 26, he’s only got upside.
trade maine and a prospect or two for Santana!!!!
I’ve been saying since day one, you unload the entire farm to get Santana. There’s not a single #2 pitcher among our group, and there’s not a single consistent all star caliber OF (save for possibly FMart) in the bunch. Unload all of them. If the Twins get 2 all stars from that group, it’s an even trade. Do it.
We can build up the farm in no time. This is baseball people !!!
You can find a star in the 30th round of the draft or get one via free agency from DR or PR or anywhere south of US.
i still dont get why jose reyes is considered in the same value level as ellsbury or phil hughes. someone mentioned it before, cabrera AND willis didnt get back a major league position player why the heck should santana.
im sorry to say its probaly BS, and the twins want to get as much from bos as possible with our help. everyone knows boston is deeply in it and if they have to compete with us to get him, they can and will defeat us. how does anyone see anything differently? we can’t surpass the redsox young talent.
youre right we cant. if the red sox want to they can blow any offer of ours out of the water. BUT they may not want to. the difference between us and the red sox beyond the prospects is that we are alot more desperate and willing to trade the farm (gomez, martinez, pelfrey, heilman).
Hit the Weights Zeile…
…that is a really good question…all the players in the trade for Cabrera/Willis were good, but not big time names like Reyes…not sure why he is always in the mix for this trade…
…I just wish this were all resolved one way or the other.
b/c the Mets prospects are generally considered crap compared to Joba, Elsbury, Lester, and the studs the Tigers just gave up. So the Twins smell the desperation reaking from Minaya, and are asking for the best position player from the Mets in effort to increase Santana’s comparative value. And if the Mets stay in the sweepstakes without out violently denying any possibility of a Reyes trade, than the market value for Johan will remain high.
All the Twins are doing is using Reyes as leverage to make other teams pay a higher price. They are smart to do so, and Minaya is smart for allowing it . B/C he knows that there is now way he trades Reyes. It’s the game.
Heard the interview. Heyman also said that two of the three Mets prospects being offered are better than two of the three guys Boston is offering to the Twins. This is what posturing/negotiating is all about, back and forth, purposeful unvaluing and overvaluing of players to try and get the upper hand.
Mets are not getting Santana, and the Twins have the rest of the GMs on a string, waiting for them to deal Santana so they can know what the asking price is for their own pitchers. Just deal the freaking guy and get it over with.
EXACTLY … we are being used for leverage …. ill just continue to be ignorant though and cross my fingers and pray
From the start of this talk I couldn’t see why the Sox would go after Santana, except to keep him out of pinstripes. We all know if they do land him they will have a rotation of epic proportions.
If Omar gave the Twins 6 or 7 of our prospects I don’t i’d kill him for it, but I’d like to keep at least one of the oft mentioned prospects, preferably Martinez.
“I believe” “if this” “if that”– geez, I keep thinking of that CNN report yesterday how monkies are smarter than humans.
Now that the Yankees have supposedlyl dropped out (which I’m not so sure of), the Mets are being used to get some leverage with the Red Sox for what they really want. Yes, they will listen to offers from other teams but as mentioned, it seems probably that 2 of those 3 from Boston are what they want to start their first choice package. But who knows?!
I am going to shoot myself. WTF is up Minn? I wonder if they are reluctant to trade Johan to an American League rival. I am sure that would be a non-issue if they were getting crazy value, but they are not with the sox.
At any rate, this whole thing is pissing me off. Why would the Twinkies mention the Mets when they know they can’t have Jose Reyes. It has been made perfectly clear they can’t have Reyes. I think they are trying to get the Sox to up there offer.
The Twins would be dangerous if they hold onto Johan.
I agree. The A.L. is so far superior to the N.L., Minnesota has to be thinking about the prospect of facing Santana/Beckett in the first round of a division series. That would be heartbreaking for the organization and the fans.
I’m sure Omar will empty the farm for him….they should just send him over here…haha.
It would be wonderful if we could put something together for Santana and I do think a Mets’ package of 4 prospects stands OK against the 3-men package from the BoSox (i.e., none of ours has the ready-for-primetime upside of Lester, but their other two are so-so). But it’s been a long time since I gave any credence to anything Heyman says (going back to his Newsday days). He’s on a par with the Post’s baseball guys.
Do you think the Mets could still get Garza from the Rays?
Forget Santana. How about they just get Kazmir back.
Because it would be just as hard to get Kazmir as it will Santana. Kazmir is still cheap and under control for a few more years. The Rays have no reason to trade him.
What if we offer back Victor Zambrano?
If you throw in Bartolome Fortunato, then maybe.
You know something?
If Omar Minaya somehow finds a way to reel in Johan Santana a lot of us are going to look really foolish.
I’m fine with that.
I’m fine with it as well, but it’s really the result of these ‘tards pulling us in all different directions.
I’ll happily eat my share of crow in that case.
i think the mets are going to end up with santana and here’s why
1) they’re not re-signing him
2) the red sox dont really need santana & the only reason why they were involved was to thwart the yanks.
3) the twins would rather trade him to the national league
4) johan wants to play for the mets and hit in the national league
5) we have the money to resign him and omar needs him to save his job
theres no proof the twins want to trade him to the NL and i doubt santana wanting to hit is playing ANY role in these negotiations.
No, there is no proof, but it’s common sense. If we were forced to trade David Wright, wouldn’t you prefer to trade him to an american league team?
Actually, not really. I would def want him out of NL east. But beyond that, I’d want the best prospects back.
I think a deal of Mulvey, Pelfrey, Gomez, and Church might get it done. I would even throw in Guerra, Pena, or Heilmann as well.
Do whatever it takes to get it done.
I’m sure that’s been proposed. I’m sure every permutation that does not include Reyes, Beltran or Wright has been proposed one way or another.
Let’s trade the entire New Orleans Zephyrs team. Hey, I mean, they’ve got Tatis on their team! He’s ML ready!
haha yea, just tell them “we’ve got a guy who has already hit 2 Grand Slams in one inning in the Majors.” Just don’t tell them that was back in 1999
Wouldn’t be a catastrophe to have him stick with the Twins at least until the deadline. The whole landscape will be different at that point, with all of these “prospects” having another few months under their belt at whatever level. What’s more, should Santana find he can test the market, the Mets can just go ahead and blow him away, have him open CitiField, and not worry about obliterating the farm system.
It would be a catastrophe for the Twins.
He has already said he’d veto any in-season trade. Do you believe him?
The difference between the offers they are getting now and the two compensatory draft picks they would receive if he left via Free Agency is pretty significant.
I think it is too risky, and in the end they actually have to trade him.
catastrophe? save for getting him in a trade, that is the best option for us. it gives our prospects to improve and makes twins more desperate.
Santana’s not vetoing a trade if he gets a cool mil bonus.
Do I believe him?
No.
There seems to be some buzz that the Tigers are considering spinning the newly acquired Dontrelle Willis. Any takers?
I would think that he’s a better option than Silva or Livan, but what would he cost us?
I said thats what they would do last night right after the trade was made. They have a ton of pitching right now, and could recoup some of the prospects they gave up in the deal.
True, but is Carlos Gomez fast?
well, you can thank buster olney for instigating the whole trade reyes talks.
Can’t trust an adult named Buster.
LOL … so true. I’d hate to have that name.
Watch it BUSTER!!!
It’s watery . . with a touch of ham!!
No one gets the reference. . . .
Glorious “Arrested Development” reference!
I stand corrected.
Wilpons, Bluths . . . what’s the difference?
Let’s read the tea leaves for a second.
Mets could be considering moving Heilman back to the rotation.
Minaya seems reluctant to add Pelfrey to any package.
Mets deal for Ryan Church (proven MLB hitter, whether you agree or not)
Instead of doing 5 for 1, could the Mets be ready to offer Maine?
Maine, Church, Humber, and Danny Murphy (they need a 3B)
That has to beat the Sox’ offer right?
Then they sign Jenkins for a year to play RF with Gomez taking atbats against righties. Sign Vizcaino for the pen.
or
Make a trade with the Pirates for Nady and relief pitching.
Rotation: Johan, Pedro, Ollie, Duque, Heilman… with Pelfrey as the 6th man in AAA along with Mulvey.
This way, Mets hold onto Pelfrey, Mulvey, Martinez, Gomez, and any other second tier guys for a possible deadline deal if we need to make one.
i like your thinking and at this point i think omar will offer everything and anything short of reyes and wright. it could happen.
COME ON OMAR! TRADE LUBE TIME!
As I said the other day, I would hate to do it, but I’d add Maine to the package in a minute. But Reyes is still off limits. I’m glad the Mets won’t trade Reyes even for Johan.
I’d hate to do it too, but if they’re moving Heilman back into the rotation and if they’re high on Pelfrey… well, then maybe you do that deal.
I like the way you think.
sounds like a plan!
Finally, it’s catching on.
Trade Maine and prospects for Santana.
Let’s do it, Mets!
Some of you fans (I’m talking to you Mr. Met) keep saying the Mets are cheap and the Sox and Yankees will just spend-spend-spend.
Well if you believe Sherman and Madden, the Yankees actually have concerns about taking on JS and his future contract. Yes, even they are on a budget! Whatever they end up paying Santana will cost them an additional 40% in luxury taxes!
The Red Sox, while willing to spend, have always been concerned about exceeding the Luxury Tax, unlike the Yankees. That is the difference between the Red Sox and Yankees which at least till now prevents them from really being an Evil Empire II. This is one reason why they have been so adamant about putting Crisp in a package. If they were to take on JS, they need to shed at least Crisp’s salary.
So the Mets (along with the Dodgers) are best positioned financially to afford JS and his contract. Their prospects still remain a hurdle. But maybe Omar can work out a 3-way that doesn’t include Jose and can meet the Twins’ demands. If not, the Mets’ best hope is for Johan to be a free agent a year from now.
All but 2 (Cano and the super prospect Melky) of the Yanks starting position players make double figure millions, annually. Counting the DH & SP, that’s 8/10 starters.
How ridiculous is that?
It’s obscene. But as I told Christian Warrior who feels the Yankees had a bottomless wallet, they do have a limit. If they continued to spend unbridled, I can actually see them getting into financial trouble down the road. This is what Sherman wrote:
“I know people don’t believe it, but we really can’t go to $230 or $240 million,” a Yankees official claimed. “We really do have a budget.”
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/wm/archives/2007/12/red_sox_plan_wo.html
The irony is that if Pettitte hadn’t come back, and if they hadn’t overpaid A-Rod, they might be better positioned to take on Santana who I think would be more valuable to them than either Pettitte and A-Rod.
Kevin elster…Idid the math yesterday and posted when they said they were out. With Santana at $20M, next year they are commited to $210M in payroll that will be on the roster which when you add in the luxury tax it takes it over $250M,. Sickening but they are actualy more than twice our payroll $$
As I’ve said all along, the Bosox offer that was hyped to be so great was really suspect…
1) Lester – although good is still a high 4 – 5 era guy who was bailed out by a good offense … (note his game lines for his 11 starts in 2007)
2) Crisp – is in no way shape or form a solid OF is more like a 4th OF
3) Lowrie – is suspect “in the Arizona Fall League, and he was very negative about Lowrie’s defense, using the words “hard hands.” The scout said there’s “not a snowball’s chance” Lowrie plays shortstop in the big leagues.”
4) Masterson – is still in AA
So where is that such a great deal?
The Yankees are going to end up with Santana for Melky and Hughes and that’s it….
This is all CRAZY!!! Somebody…please make it stop!!! Trade the friggin’ guy already. I’m at the point where I don’t care where he goes (except of course Atl. or Philly). JUST TRADE HIM!!!!!
bye bye John Maine
Omar just make this offer and say take it or leave it w/in 24 hours..the week is almost over and we have to leave this year’s meetings on some kind of positive note …offer:
Maine, Gomez, Church, Heilmann,Pelfrey
if they wont take that …
1) they are Nuts!!
2)It wasnt meant to be.
That is completely overboard. They shouldn’t even think about that much.
I don’t think you can include Church and Gomez. One or the other needs to start in RF.
Trade Church(cant hit lefties) and Gomez Sign Andruw for years…and convince him or Beltran to play right …..why not ??? He can bat 7th and be solid.
My maine problem is Maine, Heilman, and Pelfrey.
Who’s the 5th starter? Who replaces Duque/Pedro in the event of an injury.
I do not want Andruw Jones.
Silva??? And wwhy not Andruw?? he is still fairly young….give him a 50k per rbi against div opponents claus…in his contract….lol
i dont trust oliver perez i dont no where all the confidence is coming from … if we get santana or bedard we have our ace but we still need 1 more good pitcher
1santana/bedard
2martinez
3maine
4perez? yuck!
5……………..duke see where we need another pritty good starter if we get another good starter than i would be fine making perez a 5th and throw perez in the 5th spot … something like this
1santana/bedard
2martinez
3maine
4silva/lowry/hernandez
5perez
i still dont even like that rotation it has to be something like this
1santana/bedard
2lowry
3martinez
4maine
5perez/ hernandez/ silva
You are crazy that you would not take Perez at a #4 slot.
Dude, puff puff pass.
If you prefer Silva, Lowry, or Duque to Perez you must be smoking.
And how, exactly, will Omar be able to get both Johan/Bedard AND Lowry?
You must be kidding right? Perez had an excellent season last year and has great stuff. He had much better control last season and only lost it a few times. He gave up more 5 or more runs only 3 times last season. Maine gave up 5 or more runs 5 times. I like both, but to call Perez a 5th place starter is ridiculous.
haha
Ollie had some horrendous games, but he also won 15. As a #4, Ollie is a very good pitcher.
Perhaps, dare I say the BEST #4 pitcher in league?
Lots of free time so…depth charts of 4th starters per CBS sportsline:
Adam Loewen, Tim Wakefield, Mike Mussina, Andy Sonnanstine, Dustin McGowan, John Danks, Paul Byrd, Kenny Rogers, Kyle Davies, Boof Bonser, Jered Weaver, Chad Gaudin, Brandon Morrow, Kason Gabbard.
That’s just the AL. I’d take Ollie over every one of them.
He is better than a 4. Better than a 3 actually. He vacillated between having it all lined up and then losing it last year which is the reason he had only 15 wins not 17 or 18. His stuff is terrific. Best on the team right now. He just has to hear the music in his head and repeat the mechanics.
I trust both Maine and Perez. I actually see them both making strides this year to be better. I see them with over 30 wins again combined. Likely in the 34 range and with less than 20 losses combined.
I can see them both going 17-8 as opposed to 15-10. For Perez…that will mean big money immediately as he is Free Agent at the conclusion of the year.
For Maine, it means he gets one of the Santana type deals from 4 years ago. Signs out the arbitration years for like 4 years and 60 M.
Put two years back to back with improving results and 15 plus wins with declining eras….they will get their money from us.
The Mets don’t need to spend money with a new stadium coming they will sell out for the next 3-5 years!!!!
Freddie and Jeff COUPONS are in this for the MONEY ONLY.. WINNING IS NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.
They know the money will come in for the next 3-5 years. Forget about signing top free agents or getting top players that they would have to resign .
THIS YEAR MR AND MR COUPONS ARE RAISING TICKET PRICES 20-25%.
Wilpons are a joke . we will sign top free agents in 4-5 years when the attendance drops off.
IT’S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY STUPID, OMAR IS NOT AT FAULT.
TO BAD CYCLONE….CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH
Didn’t I see this post yesterday…sounds like a vendetta to me
LOL you are a funny dude….
Actually it’s true. The Coupons only care about the bottom line. Their old philosophy was, don’t spend + collect money = profit.
Then they learned that if they field a better team, albeit at a cost, the get more money AND the value of their franchise goes up.
Finally, they’ve come to the Dolan/MSG philiosophy which is, keep the fans interested, by winning enoughgames, but don’t spend too much to go beyond that. If you happen to win a championship based on that model, that’s just gravy. Take the extra money and give yourself the credit.
Nostradamus has spoken
I think Omar needs to include FMart and Gomez in the [insert ace] deal. I’ve seen hitting prospects come and go: Lee Maz, Gregg Jeffries, Ryan Thompson, Alex Ochoa, and so many others. What makes FMart so special? Aside from his age, and optimistic reports comparing his build to Ted Williams. He hasn’t done much in the minors.
Gomez on the other hand has showcased his speed (12 sb in 58 games), and streaks of strong hitting. Lets not give them the farm, but Humber, Gomez, and Heilman aren’t cutting it. We need to move away from no to “Gomez FMart” combo.
I don’t think Omar is dealing OIlie or Maine…
Some of your proposals with Maine are interesting— and I’d certainly consider throwing him in if that were to lessen the “quantity” we would have to give up, but you then open up another hole in the rotation. On top of that, if Maine has another 15-win season you have to consider that he may be a legitimate #2.
So, I would proposed a quantity deal:
Gomez, Pelfrey, Mulvey, lower picther (like Rustich or Kunz) and a positional player or two (if we even have one that they like).
I think quantity could get it done here, and hopefully Omar is thinking along those lines.
I just hate the quantity deal because it kills our depth.
What happens if/when Alou, Duque, and/or Delgado goes down? Who steps in?
What if we need to make a deadline deal? Who’s left to deal?
You still have Humber (who is still getting back into form after TJ surgery), Endy will pick up some slack (and you can sign Reggie Sanders or something like that), and lots of people can probably play first.
Good point about the deadline deal, but that’s why you always have prospects who will develop and round out and jump in value.
Metscam,
I could not have said it any better. THe Wipons have always and will always be CHEAPSKATES. I mean what’s the payroll at right now, with all of the salary they’ve shed in LoDuca, Glavine, Green, etc. I think it’s around 95 million. That’s what…35% of what the NYY payroll is? And Maybe 65% of what Boston’s is? Pathetic. I’m hearing that if they ever got Santana they could get cheap. I mean you have to be kidding me.
Foil hat.
Also
1. Johan
2. Pedro
3. Perez
4. Maine
5. Who Cares? Johan is on top and we have El Duque for 100 IPs :)
I think this offseason should be a smack of reality to the Wilpon’s and Omar to draft studs that drop in the draft. They should just brush aside the notion that they will abide by the commsioner’s suggested slot reccomendations and take the players that fall because of signability concerns. You have SNY, the new ball park and they are breaking attendance every year. Cut the crap and start drafting like the Yankees, Red Sox and Tigers do.
Does anyone sense a patern here? Those 3 teams are the ones that have been in the discussion for Johan and obviously the Tigers were able to acquire Andrew Miller in the $20’s because he dropped, along with rick Porcello this year. This is the difference between the clubs that have this premium talent that is making us be a second fiddle in all of this.
If they combine that with the way they are attacking the international signings we will be second to very few in the minor league talent department.
The shame is that the year 3 bonifide Aces are available this winter, the year before i feel the Mets will take a “very aggressive approach this June in the draft, but if this is the difficult lesson management needs to learn to take this approach so be it.
And the Mota move was just a sneaky salary dump. THey will get rid of Estrada and end up dumping another 3.5 million. And ticket prices being raised. What a disgrace.
Are you actually saying you don’t like the Mota-Estrada deal?
And now they say Boston is interested in Fukudome (mlbtraderumors.com) Geez they already have a payroll in the 160’s. The Mets is under 100 million. Boston got Matsuzaka over us last year, got Lugo over us….I am tired of getting out spend by over 120 million by the NYY, but also by Boston now. Why wouldn’t the Mets be in on Fukudome? They have Church in RF now who makes 400,000 dollars. Why not be in for Rowand too? This is a joke. So cheap!!!!!!!!!!
BECAUSE ROWAND IS NOT THAT GOOD.
Last year was a career year. Other than that, he hasn’t been anything to get crazy over.
He’s great for what he’s paid now, but once he gets a big deal he becomes overpaid… especially on the back end of the deal.
What does the dollar amount mean? Church and Rowand will give you similar production next year.
haha
sign rowand based on his numbers 2 years ago, not on his walk year.
262 12 47 (109 games)
262 18 70 (projected to 162)
No one is offering anything close to Reyes (an accomplished, major league 2 time All-Star) for Santana, so why would Omar? I don’t see him recommending to management to trade such a marketable, likable, player who the fanbase loves. Think Shea without Jose, Jose, Jose… He’s going nowhere.
I like, and believe, in Cerrone’s idea that they need to bring in a 3rd team.
Based on speculation about Cain or Lincecum being available, here’s my conspiracy theory trade.
Giants get:
Joe Nathan
Ryan Church
Phil Humber
(Talk is the Giants are offering Lincecum for Rios. Church isn’t Rios, but he’s servicable, and Nathan steps in as the closer they desperately need)
Twins get:
Tim Lincecum
Carlos Gomez
Kevin Mulvey
Mike Pelfrey
Aaron Heilman
(Twins get the potential ace to replace Santana, defensive CF’er to replace Hunter, two other young pitching prospects, and Heilman who would step into Nathan’s closer role)
Mets Get:
Johan Santana
Mets give up:
Gomez, Church, Heilman, Pelfrey, Humber, Mulvey for Santana…
… to get the ace that their team desperately needs.
It makes sense to me… but then again, this ain’t fantasy baseball.
I’d ship Delgado out of here. He is a coward (won’t talk to media after a loss), a loaf, and can’t catch up to a 90 MPH inside fastball. The offense is already insufficient, but I’d just try and get creative.
But as long as OMar is running “Los M*ts,” Delgado will be here…and they will allow him to loaf.
No one wants him. Besides, isn’t he on his walk year? He’ll put up 310-38-115, guaranteed.
perez YUCK?
whats wrong with you …… how many better #4’s are there in the whole game ?
let me tell you something … if our biggest concern is having a 4th starter who won 15 games last year with a sub 4 ERA, then im fine with that concern LOL
hahaha a #4 with 15 wins and sub 4.00 era. wow, what’s he worth in the open market?
the problem with the aforementioned band-aid idea (i.e. trade anyone and everyone to get the ace), is that it reveals two major problems in the mets farm system.
the first that we’d have to include so many of these prospects in order to match up with lesser amounts from other teams. like our 4-5 equal the red sox current 3-1 offer.
the second is that if we did make that type of move, then we’d be severely handcuffing ourselves over the next 2 years or so when we have no other possible prospects from which to plug holes.
considering that next year Alou, Delgado, Pedro, and El Duque will all most likely be moving on (w/ the possible exception of Pedro if he stays healthy all year and is effective).
that’s 4 major spots to have to fill — and so now without any/most of mulvey, humber, pelfrey, church, gomez, martinez there’s really nobody who can plug any of those holes from our farm (maybe carp? but given his recent struggles that seems unlikely — maybe guerra, duda, and others will move up fast, but maybe they won’t).
yes, the mets need an ace.
but they also have to be prudent in their acquiring of one.
they cannot trade: gomez and martinez – they have to keep one.
if they trade both church and gomez, then we still have to find another RF who can legitimately be counted on for at least 2 more years until fmart is definitely ready (since alou will be gone next year).
they cannot trade: mulvey and pelfrey together unless they believe humber can be a legitimate piece of the rotation. and no matter what they can’t trade all 3 of them. as one of them will have to be in the rotation in ‘09.
that said, i’d have no problems offering a package of Gomez, Church, Heilman, and Pelfrey for Santana.
Signing or trading for a new RF (welcome back nady?).
Giving the 5th spot to either Humber or Mulvey (or signing livan or silva or whomever they choose)
And signing someone like Dotel to take Heilman’s spot in the bullpen. with the hope that Sanchez and Padilla are able to contribute more and more as the year progresses. and that Joe Smith will have a better full year – as i think he hit the wall last year never having thrown the innings we tried to get out of him.
all these problems you speak of, are problems that can probably be solved at the trade deadline…. getting an ACE wont be solved during the season …….if we need to create a Hole, to aquire a real true ACE, then so be it
Humber is worthless- has no value. How could he have any value after dumb Willie ran out BRIAN LAWRENCE ahead of him so many times late in the year? That helped kill his value. Willie also killed Milledge’s value with the way he blasted him and called him out for his hotdogging. They also killed Pelfrey’s value by bringing him up and down, up and down. About 1.5 years ago the Mets were said to have one of the Top 5 farm systems in baseball. But Omar has not drafted well and on top of that the CHEAP Wilpons refuse to give big signing bonuses to top picks, and pass up on them so that teams like Anaheim, NYY, Boston, end up drafting them and paying them- cause we were too cheap. This is why we have a garb*ge farm system. Thank Dumb Willie and “Mr. Autonomy” for that.
Fire them now.
p.s. Where are Bell, Bannister, Lindstrom, Owens, (an entire bullpen plus a good # 3 starter)…and Jesus Flores?
Oh yeah Omar gave them away for st*ffs (and in Flores’ case he did not protect him and instead chose to protect his beer buddy Julio Franco-so they could go drinking El Presidente cervezas together).
Fire him.
I’d rather fire you.
When was the last time the Mets made a splash?
Over 2 calendar years ago- Wagner.
Who cares about a splash. We want the team to make smart baseball moves.
They’re not doing either.
touche
Could be worse. They could have signed Eckstein.
Is “splash” the new “grit”. Or is that still “fire”?
Hey firemet, do you get a real kick out of sounding like you don’t know what you’re talking about?
Pelfrey IS a top pick teams were scared off from for his high signing cost. He’s a Boras Baby. And the Mets still signed him. For $3.5 a year with a $5.3 guarantee. That’s not “cheap”. And he hasn’t been close to living up to the hype.
“But Omar has not drafted well ”
He hasn’t? Fernando Martinez is a Minaya pick and the 17th best prospect in baseball according to BA.
Joe Smith is a Minaya pick who make big contributions to the big team pretty quick.
And Humber is worthless because he’s not good. Not because Brian Lawrence was started in front of him. He’s been mediocre in Triple A.
Actually, Humber was petty darned good last year in AAA, the only year that should really count (die to his TJ)
He had something like the 3rd lowest ERA and the lowest WHIP in the PCL< a notorious hitters league. THat sounds pretty good to me.
I believe his K rate is respeoctable too.
Maybe not Lincecum #s, but far from “garbage”.
OLLIE or MAINE plus GOMEZ would do it.
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