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According to WFAN’s Ed Coleman, there are ‘people inside the Mets’ who are back in favor of moving RHP Aaron Heilman to the starting rotation, assuming he can be replaced in the bullpen.
…well, i’m sure this is music to heilman’s ears, since he is entering 
salary arbitration, where he’ll be valued as a set-up man, all while he believes he can succeed as a starter, and likely lock down a much better contract in years to come…
…business aside, for what it’s worth, i have always been in favor of at least considering heilman during the spring…i don’t understand what can be lost by at least trying, assuming the team’s bullpen is in order…however, i have always understood the logic coming from the team, which has been that heilman has been successful in his current role, he helps the team, he is a question mark in the rotation, so leave him where he’s at…
…the thing is, considering the free-agent market, and this team’s struggles to make a trade, maybe it finally makes more sense to just focus on improving the bullpen, while giving heilman a chance to start again…
yes ,i’m all for this. never understood why they never tried it last year
Because, until the last 3 days of the season, the Mets still believed they were in it and there was no need to take that chance on Heilman.
That said, I can accept the arguments about Heilman having been trained for bullpen duty and that it would take too long to acclimate him back into the rotation…
But this would be a great year to start him in the #5 spot. He wasn’t the best, but when he was on he was great.
And he was always better than Pelfrey.
It’s about time. We heard excuse after excuse after excuse why he was so important to the bullpen. News flash: We need starters. Give him a shot.
starters are always more important than bullpen.
Yes, yes. Give the guy a shot. The guy has been a great soldier and has never complained publicly (despite claims by some fans to the contrary). It’s easier to fulfill bullpen needs than rotation needs. If you overpay for a reliever it’s not as bad as overpaying for a starter. So just go out and get Mahay or someone else. Then let Heilman get a shot. If it doesn’t work, then just put him back in the pen. You haven’t really risked anything.
Ya hear me Omar? Ya know what I’m sayin’? Call Aaron now and tell him he gets a shot!
totally agree
I agree too. I’ve been saying it for 2 years. They should have done it in ‘06 instead of wasting time with Lima, Gonzalez and the like. Hopefully Sanchez comes back healthy and effective.
The reasoning for keeping Heilman in the bullpen was pointless and we saw the results. He is not more important in the bullpen if the starters can’t get the team to the bullpen. If they trot out Brian Lawrence and he gives up 4 runs in 3 innings, the bullpen is irrelevant.
he started his whole career, up until 2004. Plenty of guys have switched from the pen, and he seems to have the build, etc. for it. Not like taking Wagner and making him a starter!
who?
Braden Looper?
Derek Lowe, Pedro Martinez, Johan Santana, Julian Tavarez, etc.
All of these guys spent time in the bullpen at some point in their careers only to return to starting.
This “announcement”, especially at this juncture in the trading season, is most probably just a negotiating tactic. Get other possible trading partners looking at Heilman as a starter to incrase his value, or use this idea to show other teams we’re not so desparate. Can’t trust any announcements like this at this time of year.
its about time
If Padilla and Sanchez are healthy then why not try it?
Padilla? He’s 31 years old, hasn’t pitched in 2 seasons, and has a total of 62 career innings. And, while he was awesome in 2005, before that he had a career WHIP above 2.0. Don’t bank on him…
Sanchez’s stats are frighteningly similar to Heilman’s. Roughly the same K/9, WHIP GO/AO ratio, etc. In fact, over 2004-06 Sanchez gave up HRs at a greater rate than Heilman in 2007.
I don’t see this as a bad move – but I don’t view it as a savior move either. Just don’t view Sanchez as a major trade-up from Heilman in the 8th inning.
Wagner – Sanchez – Feliciano – Smith – Schoenweis – Sosa – Duque is not an awe-inspiring bullpen, but it’s not much worse than with Heilman in there…
Not banking on him nearly as much as acknowledging he’s a “warm body” to try to fill the vacated BP role. A quick look at the bullpens of the NL west shows that a group of guys who are not “awe inspiring” can get outs for winning teams. Since the Mets contributed to this phenomenon (Heath Bell) I’m hoping they noticed.
I agree completely. Assuming the Mets add 1 starter, let Heilman, El Duque, Pelfrey, Humber battle it out for the 5th spot. If Heilman can’t win it, he goes back to the pen, no harm done. If he does, the Mets rotation is improved, and maybe Heilman will have more value in a package deal for a top of the rotation guy.
He was as good as, if not better than Bannister coming out of Spring Training 2 years ago and we’ve all seen how Bannister handled a full season in the bigs. Give him a shot for the 5th spot!
Yes. He was edged out by Bannister for the #5 spot a couple of years ago. Give him a shot.
nope, they never gave Heilman a shot. Bannister beat out Pelfrey.
NO, Bannister beat out Heilman…The two posted similar numbers during the Spring, b ut since Aaron had experience coming out on the pen in ‘05, and was damn good doing it, they let Bannister start.
I don’t think one beat out the other. If anything, Bannister gave them an excuse to put Heilman in the pen since he had been very successful at the conclusion of the previous season.
Hooray… two years later, Aaron gets a shot at the rotation. I am sure he won’t harbor any ill will when it comes to negotiating his next contract. That, and it took Omar botching the winter meetings and dealing away Milledge to get him there. What a proud day.
Some team will give Heilman a shot to start. Then he’s outta here!
i’m all for him giving up his homers earlier in the game rather than the 8th…
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
love it
Career HR/9IP–
aaron heilman: 8.13
erik bedard: 8.58
matt garza: 10.69
dan haren: 8.97
Last year HR/9IP–
heilman: 7.53
santana: 7.52
You’re saying Johan Santana gave up 7.5 homers on average every 9 innings last year?
sorry everyone. caffeine took possession of my brain for a few minutes there (and returned it happily).
those were hits per 9IP.
here are HR per 9IP, last year:
Heilman 0.84
Santana 1.36
Haren 1.08
Bedard 0.94
Garza 0.87
Career numbers also favor heilman. fact of life: even the best ML pitchers give up homers to ML hitters.
absolutely, the succesful ones give up solo homers, the rest have walked two batters previous thus giving up the 3 run bomb. Curious to see a BB/9 comparison.
BUT, the difference is starters go through a lineup 3 times and it is easier to hit a HR off a guy after you have seen him once or twice. I don’t think this comparison is relevant.
BB/9 – 2007, per MLB.com:
Sabathia 1.38
Blanton 1.57
Beckett 1.79
Heilman 2.09
Hamels 2.11
Santana 2.14
Haren 2.22
Bedard 2.82
Garza 3.47
You have to mean something else, even Aaron doesn’t give up a HR every time he pitches. Maybe if you narrowed that to playoff games. ;-)
sorry I put hits per 9IP, not HR/9IP. both sets of numbers show heilman as better than all the starters we’ve been chasing.
all kidding aside, great point. Starters can get away with giving up homers – managing the game around them. In the 8th he has no margin for error. I love it for that reason.
He’s earned a shot – he’s watched enough Lima, Park, Lawrence, Gonzalez, etc. starts.
great point.
Padilla can’t possibly be healthy.
padilla is healthy. he’s been pitching in the winter league.
That means he’ll be hurt in 3, 2, 1 . . .
I hope this happens, I’ve been saying this forever.
We will address this after we sign Luis Vizcaino for 3 years and sign Octavio Dotel for 2.
Do it now…I witnessed Heilman pitch a 1 hit shutout vs Florida back in 2005, he was nasty that night…Always felt he should be starting rather than a ‘pen guy…
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/16/sports/baseball/16mets.html?n=Top/News/Sports/Baseball/Major%20League/New%20York%20Mets
for that one great start how many stinkers did he throw?
About 19.
incorrect. check your facts.
Heilman picthed the 1 hitter early in the season and got beat up the next game, but bounced back nicely after that with a strong 7 inning, 1 run game and a 6 inning 3 run game… then he was moved to the bullpen.
He was a top pick and a potential star at one time (15 wins in 15 starts his senior year) — it would be the equivalent of Humber starting in 2008, pitching a 1 hitter in his second start, then after a drubbing pitching 13 innings, 4 runs in his next two and then sent to the bullpen immediately, never to be seen starting again while Lima and the others pitched.
I have always felt sorry for him — imagine if that really happened to Humber or Pelfrey in 2008?
That depends–do you mean before or after he reverted to his original delivery after the Mets changed it?
Yeah but he turned the corner after that start. I believe he may have started 3 or 4 more times after that start, and he pitched pretty well. Then Willie the genius put him in the pen.
his era in 2005 was 3.17 overall. he started 7 games that year, after which his era was 4.37 with a BAA of .236 and a WHIP of 1.17. he spent the rest of the year coming our of the pen, and performed outstandingly.
2005 was the year he went back to the old arm angle. he never had a full season to prove his worth as a starter after that change. how some people can write off his consistently strong performance (he’s really been the mets’ best pitcher the last three years) since then as “just a middle reliever” is truly one of the more puzzlingly assinine things I have seen as a Mets fan. I just think there’s a lot of so-called fans who A) don’t know the game, and B) love to find someone to hate.
i am convinced heilman will be great as a starter this year, and will prove his doubters wrong.
100% agreed vinluvr … we’ll see if he gets the chance.
hope you’re right about “great as a starter” but will happily settle for “better than ML average as a starter.”
The Mets’ irrational opposition to trying Heilman as a starter has always confused me. It’s arguably lost them a considerable number of games over the last 2 years (obviously, it wound up not mattering in 06 but mattered considerably in 07) as they’ve trotted out guys like Lima, J/Geremi Gonzales, Chan Ho, Jason Vargas, and Brian Freaking Lawrence. Obviously, our pen last year was not very good, but the fact is, if you have better starters who can go longer innings (and Heilman is still young and can do so) then the pen doesn’t have to pitch as many innings.
After the Milledge trade, it’s nice to know that someone in the organization has his head screwed on.
I’ve been saying this forever. You always have one side’s argument saying “He failed as a starter”. What those people fail to realize is that he failed as a pitcher before his arm angle was corrected. Once that was corrected, he threw a one hitter and was not given another chance to start. He succeeded as a reliever because of the change back to his original arm angle. He should be a starter.
he had FIVE starts after his Famous one hitter and showed no ability to get thru the lineup the third time around..
Including 5 days after he one hit the marlins he gave up 11 hits to the same lineup in a 4 inning start./
This is the same crack team that irrationally trotted Mota out there every day hoping for different results. What do you expect?
“(Insert player name) is my guy. He will continue to be my guy. (Player’s name) plays X positions. He will continue to play X position. I had my mind and ability to show emotion stolen from me after the 1982 Yankees season. All hail George” – willie
This is a guy who went 15-0 in his Senior year at College. He has the tolls and talent so let the Jedi Peterson work on him in late February through spring training. Would expect a “Happy Heilman” to perform better this year than in the past. Save the prospects and pencil him in at #5.
thats something a third place team would do.. not one built to win now.
This is just more posturing. They want Heilman’s value to be that of a back of the rotation starter so he will have higher trade value.
i was just about to say that but if that gets us a bedard or santana somehow im all for it
Maybe they should have thought about that before burying him in the pen for 2 years.
exactly!
A little late for posturing no? right now, he’s a middle reliever on the market.
Does anyone else see the shere numbers method of building a rotation and bullpen begining here? Buy a bunch and have 8 starters and 10 relievers trying to make the team. Anyone watch House?
I guess this is officially Minaya giving up on ace pitchers. Either that or he is saying that he is calling the bluff of teams with an Ace and saying “we are not paying that much. COme see me when you have a reasonable offer.”
you beat me to it buddy.
I think that “House” jumped the shark with that move. I’m not ready for the Mets to jump the shark.
I wonder how much of this is posturing. Is Omar essentially saying we’re not going to give you our entire farm for one player?
Instead we’re going to go with what we already have, keep the farm, but supplement the team by going after FA after bullpen guys and add depth to the pen?
I dunno..his is such a cat mouse game with a little chess thrown in for kicks.
While I’ve been in favor of this, apparently this is a desperate step, and one done to late as far as I’m concerned…Available free agent set-up type players like Linebrink, Percival and now Riske have all gone elsewhere, so where is his replacement going to come from????
El Duque … or through a trade … or through someone from the farm.
Octavio Dotel
I never understood what the big deal was as to why the Mets did not try this before. There is nothing to lose here. If he stinks as a starter, he goes back to the BP. It is right in front of their faces and they did not even gamble on at least trying it.
Some people in charge are very closed minded.
nothign to lose? only your best set up man and all his trade value.
ERA 5.93 in 133.2 innings pitched
ERA 2.99 in 240.2 innings pitched
For all of you that want Aaron to start, hope you realize his immense struggles when he actually has been put in that position.
Assuming that’s
Heilman as a starter vs.
Heilman as a reliever?
Sorry – Yes. . .
ERA 5.93 in 133.2 innings pitched as starter
ERA 2.99 in 240.2 innings pitched as a reliever
Those stats are misleading. See my posts above … “arm angle”.
puhahahaha the genius behind the jacket
arm angle
Those stats aren’t comparable. That’s an awfully small sampling of starts (22 given a 6-inning average) compared to relief appearances (say 120 given 2-inning stints.
He was also a starter before he really got his changeup going.
Why not give him a chance to get a better idea of what he’s got as a starter. There are plenty of guys who can pitch to a mid-to-high-3s ERA. Starters are 100x more valuable. Look at what even crappy starters are worth these days.
True but many of Heilman’s starts came when he was just up from the minors, lacked confidence and was trying to throw over the top. He started to have success in the bigs when he scrapped the over the top motion and went back to a three quarters motion. The few starts he made in early 2005, after the change, he was good to excellent.
The As have been interested for a couple of years in acquiring Heilman to use him as a starter and while Billy Beane is not always right the guy is pretty smart.
There seems to be little to lose with this move.
Millsy … glad I’m not the only one who remembers this.
I pretty much throw out all stats prior to the arm angle change b/c he is clearly a different pitcher today than he was before it.
so what about 5 days after his one hitter when the same MArlins team shellacked him for 11 hits in 4 innings?
what about May 1st 2005 when he gave up four runs to the GNATS in 6 innings?
or when he couldnt get out of the 6th inning against the Cubbies n his next start on may 9th
or when he couldnt get out of the 6th inning against the Cards 6 days after that ?
Yeah but you conveniently left out the 7 innings of 2 hit ball and 1 run that he pitched against Atlanta on Apr. 25th. You make a point … but its too small a sample. They don’t give up on Pelfrey … he’s only working with 2 pitches too. Yet he gets so many more chances.
I’m not saying this should be the plan. I’m saying, if all else fails … he’s a good option to start, and he should be given the chance.
This is a smart idea. The Red Sox did this with Derek Lowe in 2002 and he won 21 games in 2002 and 17 games in 2003. Now I don’t expect Heilman to win 21 but if he developed into a solid 12-15 win, 200 IP guy that would be great and reduce the need to trade every prospect we have to acquire a starter.
The question is who takes his spot in the pen. I have been worried that Sanchez was never going to pitch again but the fact the Mets are seriously considering this move makes you think he may be back.
plus Lowe later moved to sunny LA and cheated on his wife with a local TV meteorologist, so Aaron has that to look forward to also
hahahaha
i gotta say, the humor’s at an all time high today
classic
LOL. That’s hilarious.
I like it, and have been pushing it for a while. He has to be better than Livan, etc. And probably as good as, if not better than, Blanton.
If it works, they save a fortune on trade chips. If he scuffles, you put him back in the pen.
Not really any downside.
I see this as posturing – but not only do i think he should be given a chance but I believe he would do well. He beat Bannister for the position but he was too valueable in the pen. the mets should stock the pen and move him to the rotation
Unless the Mets can land a starter like Bedard or BLanton (the Mets don’t seem to have the ammo for Santana or Haren), I’d like to see them give Heilman his shot at the rotation (he’s certainly proved his ability in the short role) and put Pelfrey in the bullpen giving him a chance to develop confidence and a breaking pitch to complement his fastball (and my guess is Pelfrey’s heavy fastball will be very effecrtive in a one-inning role). And if they sign someone like Livan or Silva for end of the rotation, then they could also put El Duque in the pen but have him reserve to flip plces with Heilman if AH can’t make the switch from one inning to 6 or 7. This is all a fall-back strategy, not what we were hoping for, but it may be all that’s available.
I like the idea of Pelfrey in the pen. That hard sinker is perfect for the bullpen and it could do wonders for his confidence.
What’s interesting is 25-30 yrs ago or so, top flight organizations like the Dodgers and Orioles used to bring up their young pitchers and have them pitch out of the pen for a year or so to get them exposure to big league hitters w/o ruining their confidence. Due to the lack of pitching teams have gotten away from this practice.
Heilman is clearly a much more confident pitcher as a result of his pen experience and if Heilman succeeds as a starter this could be a wave of the future for our young arms.
I’m okay with giving it a shot, but I do have some doubts as to whether he’ll be as good a starter as he is a reliever. As some people already mentioned if he does go into the starting rotation they need to find some more bullpen help (they already need bullpen help so this just means they’ll need more).
It certainly couldn’t hurt to try. And if it pans out, would be much easier to keep him here when he becomes a FA. He wants to start and would probably rather do that elsewhere, instead of staying in the Flushing ‘pen.
It’s certainly a health risk to add all of those innings to his arm next season, but if the team properly conditions him and sets this up nicely, then I would have to think that Heilman, one of the best relief pitchers in baseball over the last two seasons, would make a fine starter and give the Mets a young, effective rotation.
Add in A.J. Burnett, a former Mets prospect, and a relief pitcher, another Mets prospect in Dotel?, and the Mets have greatly improved from last season while not destroying their future.
According to Ken Rosenthal, Blue Jays have no intention of trading AJ from my understanding. Here is the site”
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7528844
News:
Sweeny said in Wfan that Tigers thought about moving Willis to another team. Called teams including the Mets but decided to keep him instead.
You know, if the Mets feel Heilman can be moved to rotation without creating a significant hole that can’t be filled via free agency I’d much rather move him to acquire a guy like AJ Burnett. Heilman hasn’t started in years when healthy Burnett is probably going to give you more than him.
interesting point.
I really want to save my opinion on this offseason until spring training starts, but…here is what we look like now:
Pedro, El Duque, OPerez and Maine. We’ve done the “sign everybody with a pulse and part of a rotator cuff” thing and all we ended up with was 15 different washed-up starters that were 0-1 or worse. Let’s try Heilman/Pelfrey in the 5-slot before we sign Livan, Freddy & the Gang to lose every 5th day. If we trade Heilman, we’ll have to replace him in the bullpen anyway.
We definitely don’t need to trade Gomez AND Church in the absence of Milledge.
Yes but you have to face the reality that El Duque is not going to be able to be a starter all year. I’m all for letting Heilman have a another chance as a starter, but I don’t know why everyone is adverse to signing a FA pitcher, just because they aren’t the aces we wanted. Sign Livan or someone like that, and have
Pedro
Maine
Perez
El Duque or Hernandez/Colon/etc
Pelfrey/Heilman/Humber
If you don’t sign someone else and El Duque does get injured which is almost a guarantee, then you’re forcing either Heilman or Humber into the rotation. Sign a FA and you’ve got a little bit of depth.
I’m all for this; as someone else posted: no downside, you can move him back to the pen if it doesn’t work. I doubt he’ll pitch 200 innings, but I’d like to see what he can do.
The downside is saying ‘We’ll have Aaron start’ and not doing anything else to get a real starter….so when he flops and is back in the bullpen, we’re stuck relying on Pelfrey, Humber, or Mulvey every fifth day.
Not to mention slowing the growth of our other pitchers so their value plummets some more, if that’s possible.
or just plain losing a ton of games
there’s def plenty of downside
And signing Livan doesn’t pretty much guarantee these downsides happen?
And signing Livan doesn’t pretty much guarantee these downsides happen?
Thank you. “Slowing the growth of our other pitchers” suggests you’d be more willing to experiment with them (the younger guys) and watch them lose (and potentially lose more value) than with a guy who’s pitched successfully as a starter and has already established his MLB value as a reliever. How can Aaron failing as a starter be worse than one of our few remaining “prospects” failing at the big-league level?
Further, there will almost certainly be pitchers of Livan’s ilk available during the season by trade or DFA guys.
IM ALL FOR THIS!!!! FINALLY GIVE AARON A SHOT!!
Do it. Starting pitching will always be more important than relief pitching. There’s no point in having a 7th or 8th inning guy if you can’t get out of the 4th.
or giving up 7 in a third of an inning. but that’s neither here nor there.
ouch…memories of being hit in the crotch with a soccerball in gym class…ouch
The problem with this is that Heilman only has 2 decent pitches. He was never able to master his 3rd and 4th pitches which is why he was stuck in the bullpen to begin with. He’ll get hit, and he’ll get hit hard and he’ll be back in the bullpen while we’re stuck with a gaping hole in the rotation.
His slider isn’t terrible, he probalby doesn’t throw it much because short releivers only need two pitches and if you get beat with your third pitch as a late inning guy oyu get crucified. he only needs to show it once in a while for it to have an effect.
Exactly … he has more than 2 pitches. He just doesn’t use them because of the bullpen role.
Again, he was horribly inconsistant with them back in 2005, I can’t imagine how bad they look in 2008 with 2 full years plus of rust on them.
ok so after 2 years of hardly throwing his other pitches in game situations suddenly hes going to become a brilliant 4 pitch pitcher? fastball will lose velocity, changeup will lose bite. youre just filling a hole by creating another one. think about it would you rather have heilman in the 8th and say silva as your 5th starter or heilman as your 5th starter and dotel or a big ? in sanchez as your 8th inning guy.
OK well then get the WD-40 …. or the trade lube.
Not terrible, just horribly inconsistant. One pitch it looks great and the next pitch it’s hung for a Home Run. And that was when he was starting full-time. I can’t imagine what those pitches look like now. He’d probably need at least 3 months in the minors working on his secondary stuff in order to even do a decent job as a Starter.
You can get by with 2 pitches in the bullpen. As a starter you need an arsenal of 3-4 decent pitches. Heilman doesn’t have that right now.
If Omar really wanted to make a move, why not tempt people with Guerra or Martinez?
Getting an ace like Santana or Bedard means you want to win now.
“People inside the Mets”–Heilman is inside the Mets! Mabe the locker room guy, or Bob the ballboy?
Heilman’s finest game came as a starter on April 15, 2005, when he made a start in place of the injured Kris Benson and pitched a one-hit complete game shutout.
In the second half of the 2005 season, he held a 0.68 ERA, tops in the league.
Does anyone remember that? Give him a shot man….!
In the second half of the 2005 season, he was in the bullpen.
Why isn’t Heilman a starter: he’s essentially a two pitch pitcher with both the 2-seamer and the change moving L to R. This works well in small doses, but he really needs that biting slider to keep hitters honest. Until he develops the slider, hitters will adjust to the R to L movement by the second or third time through the order. I like the Heilman as starter experiment, but only if, in spring training, he can prove to Rick Peterson that he has command of a slider or cut fastball.
Wow. Think that Houson wants to have Brad Lidge back now? Imagine the bidding war now that the Mets can’t get a top of the rotation starter.
There is an old baseball saying that some of the best trades are the ones you don’t make.
Trying Heilman as a starter has that feel to it but time will tell.
after he pitched that one hitter against the lowly Fish in 2005 he was whipped like a red headed step child in his next start against the same Fish lineup
Other than that ONE start and one other against the Braves (Who he has historically had good success against) he has been an abysmal starting pitcher.. He has not made it out of the 6th inning – usually the third time thru a line up..
Why not give him a shot? because we are a contender and we cant afford to let him trot out and prepare to be a starter all winter and spring and then just put him back in the Pen..
Besides, he’s getting flipped for a real starter sooner rather than later. the guy is trade bait.. nothing more..
IP H R ER HR BB SO
5.2 7 4 4 2 1 7 (loss)
5.1 5 2 2 0 2 4 (no decision)
6.0 4 3 3 0 5 5 (no decision)
7.0 2 1 1 0 1 5 (Win)
4.0 11 7 7 1 1 3 (loss)
9.0 1 0 0 0 3 7 (win)
5.0 8 5 5 2 0 3 (loss)
This was Heilman’s performance down the stretch in ‘05. I think he this is better than abysmal, and he definitely deserved a chance to build off of this. Once the kid had a modicum of success, we put him in the pen.
I’m not going to try and say he is any great shakes, but if we can’t land a front line guy, in this crazy market where Kyle Lohse, Carlos Silva, and some random Japanese pitcher are commanding 4 year deals, why not take a shot on Aaron? The kid is a former 1st round draft pick. The Mets, as always, messed with his delivery and it took him a few years to get straightened out. So instead of mortgaging the future for a starter, why not just give Heilman a chance, let Pelfrey get more seasoning in AAA, and then when Duque goes down, you bring Pelfrey up.
And what’s there to lose? Even if Heilman does poorly, he can be put back in the pen. He knows he can do this well. And this time, he may really embrace the pen since he legitimately knows he can’t cut it as a starter.
I don’t see how it would hurt his trade value. Gagne was a terrible starter who flourished in the pen. It’s a low risk, high reward move.
Eddie C….what does he know……
This morning with Benigno:
Joe- “good morning Eddie C, what are you hearing about the Mets?”
Eddie C – “At this point in time I am hearing the Mets have been talking to the MArlins about possibly getting Dontrell”
Joe – “Ed, the Marlins traded Willis and Cabrera to Detroit last night”
eddie C – “Joe, I’m not seeing that, I’ll call around this morning and let you know”
eddie c knows what’s going on with the Mets as much as Mike and the Dog know hockey.
Hell, it worked for Braden Looper.
How many starts before his pattern of getting lit up the second and third time through the order before this board is exploding with people saying they never should have moved him back into the rotation. I swear you people are so “grass is greener”.
So what? Then you just move him back to the pen.
It could also work out that he’s at least a very viable 5th starter who is better and cheaper than Livan.
i’d consider heilman for the rotation only if the mets can pick up a proven reliever (nathan, for example). i’m concerned that his fastball/change-up combo won’t be enough to get through the batting order more than twice though.
pedro
ollie
maine
el duque (pelfrey during duque’s vacations)
heilman
wagner
nathan
sanchez
feliciano
sosa/smiht/schoeneweis
that’s significantly better than last year. the line-up with be better too as church is better than green and castillo will be there for the full season instead of valentin/gotay. not to mention marlon anderson for a full season instead of franco. no newhan automatically helps the team too.
of course, i’d prefer to keep heilman in the pen and still trade for nathan for a lights out bullpen then just sign livan for a year for innings and to ensure no random 5ht starters like lawrence, park, or williams.
Well it’s about time. I love the post about how teams used to get the young pitchers exposure without damaging them. This is is big chance for Heilman to really prove himself. Pedro, Maine, Perez, Heilman, El Duque/Pelfrey/Humber/Mulvey
Wouldn’t be a terrible thing to see Pelfrey coming out of the pen. The guy with two pitches is Pelf, and his stuff in the seventh or eighth would essentially take Heilman’s place. That and the possible return of Sanchez makes the bullpen enough for a little while. If not that then take a flyer on some of the guys on the FA list too. You never know which reliever is going to come back to form (Gagne?) or have a career year. Regardless, the season doesn’t end in April and it sure as hell doesn’t end in December.
Has anyone thought about Beltran or Reyes for Santana, Lets get something done, We need a frontline stud not a washed up DUD, Colon, Silva, Burnett.. If Omar can’t get this done then I question his ability…. Maybe this is why he can’t get a contract extension..
nope, no one has ever thought of that. Get Omar on the line quick!
lol
its about time we get some news like this.
It would be easier to pick up a Vizcaiano, Dotel and put Heilman into the rotation than to find another starter. Pelfrey as a 7th or 8th inning pitcher may be a good fit. He seemed to do well for two or three innings as a starter. This is how Mariano Rivera developed………I think it better than giving up the farm or breaking up the left side of your infield.
i just hate hearing about how much the mets would have to give up for a guy like Joe Blanton, when they might have a guy that is just as good as him pitching the 8th inning (or 7th or 6th or wherever willie feels like using him any given night)
the only one that benefits from heilman moving tho the rotation is ehilman .. because 5th starters who go 10-10 can get 10 mil on the open market and top set up man dont get near that.
The next time Ed Coleman is right about the inner workings of the Mets will be the first time he’d be right about anything.
The point is the moment the Mets start valuing Heilman as a potential starter, his value will begin to increase.
Value to who? That makes no sense. Teams value Heilman as they value him. If Heilman ends up , upping his value by performing well in the rotation, then the Mets wouldn’t trade him.
Think about it, when you say the guy doesn’t project as a starter, only a reliever you limit his value. Why in the past did other clubs project him as a starter? They saw something Willie and the Jacket didn’t. The guy could start and fall on his face, or if he proves serviceable, he now can be projected either way.
When Soriano refused to play the outfield, his value was limited as a poor second basemen. He was more marketable as someone who could do more…..In this market.. a starting pitcher is more valuable than a setup man.
It’s about time. This guy has been terrific for them. When he did start, he was iffy; however, he matured with an ERA under 4; no small feat in the pitching department.
Why wouldn’t floating this idea simply be a negotiating tactic by Omar and the Mets? Saying to the Twins, or whoever, that Heilman is mulit-talented, can start, hold, or even close if need be. Raise his value for trades. Or even as a way of saying to other potential trading partners that we, the Mets, aren’t so desperate since we have this option so take our offer or not, we don’t care (remember that Omar was floating the idea that the Mets might just “stand pat”). Can’t take anything on its face value this time of year. All part of hard core bargaining.
Actually he seems to be pretty much exactly Bud Smith – one impressive start (so far).
Why not give the guy a shot? You’d rather watch Silva for 4 years and 40 million? You’d rather watch Livan for 3 years and however many million he gets? Heilman can do just as good or better than both of them … and he’s already on the team at a cheaper price.
He’s not the same pitcher he was when he started games for the Mets. His arm angle was changed in the minors after he was drafted. When it was corrected, he became effective. This was right before he was converted to a reliever. Too many people overlook this.
“yeah I mean the guy had one good start in his career clearly he is much deserving of being a starter as he obviously as more like Johan Santana than guys like Billy Traber, Jose Jimenez & Bud Smith”
I can’t comprehend this statement? What does this mean?
the guy has 2 pitches. and his fastball wont have nearly the same velo if he has to pace himself throughout a start. hes one of the best relievers in the NL if it aint broke done fix it.
That means welcome to metsblog, where they let anybody post…
he has other pitches. He just has them mothballed because he doesn’t have time to work on th m in th epen, or enough chance to use them to keep them sharp.
exactly. coming into the game in the 8th inning, he has to hold the other team. it’s no time to be messing about with a 3rd pitch that he may not have absolute confidence in. he has no margin for error there.
as a starter, he will be able to get comfortable with his slider, and it will make his other pitches that much more effective.
LOL!
why not give him a shot?
because we are supposed to be pennant contenders.. we cant experiment with our key reliever in the rotation. there are much much better options than a guy who has mothballed his third pitch for going on three years.
he had ONE great start then got hammered by the same team 5 days later.. what does that tell you?