|
…on monday night i wrote that the word from Nashville, from a few different corners, suggested that the Twins are once again contacting teams, other than the Yankees and Red Sox, to discuss offers for 
Johan Santana…
During a recent spot for ESPN News, ESPN.com’s Keith Law said that the Twins have once again reached out to the Mets, Dodgers and Angels regarding Santana.
…i’m glad to hear of this, because i can’t help but wonder why Ryan Church, Carlos Gomez, Aaron Heilman and Mike Pelfrey are not on par with Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Justin Masterson and Jed Lowrie, which had been the rumored deal being offered from boston…
According to a post for the Boston Globe, Gordon Edes writes that the Red Sox may be becoming ‘ambivalent,’ and, at this point, there is as good of a chance that Santana gets traded to the Red Sox, as there is that he will not be traded to the Red Sox.
…Update…11:00 am…
In the Daily News, Bill Madden writes that the return of Andy Pettitte for 2008 has all but eliminated the Yankees from trying to acquire Santana.
According to Madden, “In the end, Cashman prevailed, convincing Hank and Hal Steinbrenner of something he could never have done with their dad – that trading for Johan Santana was simply too expensive for the New York Yankees.”
…Update…11:20 am…
According to Jerry Crasnick, at ESPN.com, the Red Sox are the only team ‘publicly linked’ to Santana.
Meanwhile, this morning on ESPN Radio’s Mike and Mike, ESPN.com’s Buster Olney said that Twins may be leaning towards keeping Santana.
They’re just playing with our heads…Santana is staying right where he is
I agree – those packages from the Red Sox were not that overwhelming. Obviously, biased as a Mets fan, I still feel we have the chips to compete with both of the rumored Boston offers. I would be shocked if the Twins accepted either of the Boston offers.
How can the Twins afford to let that happen? I mean, if they take Santana at his word and assume that he will veto a trade in-season, why would they risk getting nothing in return?
I think that there is no way Johan stays with the Twins to start the season. They can get far more by trading him now then they could get if they try and trade him at the deadline and he vetoes, leaving them with only the compensatory draft picks from the team that he signs with via free agency.
I’d agree that they are not trading Santana or Nathan right now. I could be wrong, but it just seems that no one will blow them away with a deal.
I don’t think the Twins are in the power position in these negotiations. The entire baseball world knows that they are taking a sizeable risk by keeping him on their roster. The Twins know that they must trade him and bring a return for the best pitcher in baseball. Compensatory draft picks are not enough should he veto an in-season trade and walk next offseason.
Those are all definitely good points. There’s just some reason that I think Johan will be the opening day starter for the Twins. If Liriano is healthy and that lineup can perform even a little bit better than last season, I could see them in contention…
I think there is a chance that the Red Sox may only have wanted to stall to keep the player away from the yanks,
Having done that….maybe now they pull back one of their players to put someone else in and Twins balk.
Or maybe it is th e Twins getting cold feet
Using everyone else as leverage.
which is exactly why Omar has been smart not to try to blow teams away with his best offer. The question I have is will Omar know when it is time to go there… the little mountain climber is going up the hill… music playing…
Hey did anyone see that article written on http://www.metsblog.com about Cerrone and MetsBlog joining forces with SNY? I think it’s spot-on accurate and was just wondering what other people thought?
Andy by metsblog I meant article written on http://www.metsmole.com about Cerrone and Metsblog joining forces with SNY.
Hah.. I knew that my comment wouldn’t get posted. What a schill. ridiculous.
Obey your masters at SNY cerrone. what a joke.
?
you people crack me up…
Matt…congrats man on the merger….you’ve earned it.
you don’t owe anyone here a thing as some comments would lead you to believe.
build your business how you’d like and thanks for all you do…
Who’s the publicity hound here? Looking for a few more hits on your website? Why don’t you just write your arguments against the merger here instead of linking to it? Or at least write a few points about it.
Do we actually know if Cerrone will be leaving the comfort of working from home (or Starbucks or anyplace really) to sit in an SNY office everyday 9-to-5? Or did the author just assume that? Maybe wrongly?
At any rate, I’m not worried about Cerrone’s autonomy or integrity. If you’ve been coming here for years like I’ve been, it’s clear that his standards are pretty high. And I don’t always agree with him. Maybe the author of that article is a little jealous of all the success Metsblog has had? How many hits a day does that site get? Maybe a couple hundred at most?
Well said VC!
And to the linker, if you’re going to try to promote yourself you might try to remember your site’s name when doing so.
It would be funny if that was my website and I was linking to it so that I could get some extra hits.. it’s too bad I was sent that from a friend and thought it was quite hilarious… take it easy guys
to me that article is a LOT of speculation and evem more assumption… i think after the meetings die down cerrone should address some obvious concerns or questions loyal metblog readers have
I agree with you Giaco. That’s the problem here. I rely on this site for all of its great information. I am just a bit concerned about the integrity when I read about this merger. I can’t knock Cerrone for partnering up with the Mets but don’t you all agree that the mets need him probably more so than he needs them? The guy had 90,000 visitors look at this site yesterday… I bet SNY’s website had 9. It’s a joke.
how about when cerrone starts charging a fee for content, we start to care about what he does with this site.
I have Santana fatigue. I could care less where he lands at this point, if anywhere. This entire offseason has been worse than the collapse. Let’s just come to the realization that Omar isn’t good and deal with the fact that our only moves this winter will be Stokes, Schneider, and Church. Maybe we pick up bartolo and livan.. whoopie.
That would be more moves than 27 out of 29 other teams made so far.
So.. you think that by making moves, it is completely trivial as to what the moves actually are? Picking up a 7.07ERA pitcher from TB is hardly a move worth bragging about. And the Lastings deal put a stigma on our farm that we don’t have faith in our players. Well played sir, will played.
No, I mean you are overreacting to the fact that Omar has not made any moves when no other team has yet and there are still a lot of chips to fall. I should have realized from your first post you wouldn’t see the forest through the trees.
That’s not fair, give Omar the offseason to remake the team. It sounds like there’s a chance we can jump back into the Santana race at least.
It’s not fair to judge a GM based on phone calls he receives.
That being said, if the Opening Day roster looks like it does right now, I’d consider the offseason to be a huge failure. After the collapse, the team needed a definite shakeup, and we really haven’t gotten that.
No Green, no Mota, no Glavine. It’s not a monumental shakeup, but I’m glad we won’t have to watch those bums in 2008!
or maybe it is just the twins posturing against the sox…well if you are going to take all freaking day, we will just “look elsewhere” and see what we can get instead…but yeah cerrone why wouldn’t pelfrey, church, gomez & heilman NOT trump what the sox rumored best offer is?
h3ll, I would drive em all to the airport if needed, and pay for them to fly first class -> but still this is just some schmuck trying to get our hopes up only to have them dashed soon thereafter…I would give the farm minus F-Mart & Guerra (Guerra mostly because he is an unproven commodity at that age) but still, who wouldn’t? then we can sign dotel & he can pitch every other month, maybe try to trade for marte but we would still need another BP arm, even though BP’s are built with smoke and mirrors most of the time – heck we have enough in house options like collazo, muniz, kunz, etc (at least try them since we spent such high draft picks to get these middle relievers anyways)
what i want to know is why wouldnt maine, gomez, and oh i dunno humber or something. I realize that you still have the hole there, and john maine is popular, and cheap but still. People seem to percieve him as a very solid pitcher, certainly more established than lester.
All this back on forth is making me a manic-depressive. I’m about ready to slip into coma for the next few weeks.
Why though? Because the Yankees rejected the Twins and are looking for other teams to foolishly overpay for Santana? I mean, let’s get real here … Johan Santana is one of the best pitchers in the game, a hall of fame caliber pitcher that will have a Immediate impact on any clubs starting rotation but not only do clubs have to give up their prospects, they got to give him alot of money on top of that.
They need to seriously either lower their demands or just give it up and come to grips with that they will lose Santana and get two draft picks for him when he goes into free agency next offseason.
Sports reporters will put anything out there this time of year. If they’re wrong (about alleged “sure things”) no one remembers, they just want their names to be seen on top of the hottest rumors. The Mets aren’t getting any marquee starting pitcher. I don’t consider that Mets package to be any better than the Sox (whose package was notably inferior to the Yankees’ – now I see that Cashman never wanted to do the deal in the first place, they rejected one without Kennedy). The Mets are not getting Johan Santana, not Dan Haren, and not Erik Bedard. It kills me because this team needs that dominant ace so bad, and they won’t get him.
It seems like the Red Sox don’t really need him. Sure, nice to have, but more a luxury.
The Yankees have more of a SP need, unless they are will to go with 2 rookies, and at least 1 stiff (Mussina).
So I would think the Yanks are more likely to blink. But I still wouldn’t be surpirsed if the Twins just hold onto him.
The Twins just simply can’t afford to assume the risk that accompanies keeping Santana to start the season. He must be traded, and the entire baseball world knows it.
The Yankees are going to get him…
Hope the Twins aren’t just playing a game. This is good news for the Mets if they aren’t. I do think the Mets are high on Santana’s list and he wants to come to NY. Someone on the FAN ( think it was Coleman) said that just yesterday or the day before, implying that he’d even prefer NY over Boston.
My point exactly! Why are what the Mets have to offer horrible and what Boston or Yankees have so great? Yanks keep touting Melky like he is Andruw Jones… The 4 Mets you proposed for Santana I would think would be on par with what Boston is offering and the Twins wouldn’t have to face Santana at all this year. Just a matter signing him i guess…
And all that said, I think that everyone is messing with minaya and have no plans to trade with him. Bedard (love him!) ain’t going from Baltimore. Burnett isn’t moving, unless they get lincecum. Haren/Blanton/Harden and going anywhere as Beane is unrealistic… Met’s will be rocking the Colon/hernandez/Garcia combo to round out their staff…
The sox or yanks dont need him???? That trade with detriot yesterday seems to figure otherwise. Detriot is absolutly stacked and the indians have done nothing to make them a worse team that almost beat the sox in the playoffs. The Angels are also going to be good still. Santana would bolster an already nasty team in the Red Sox but they can really use him. I agree it is just posturing on the Twins part, but if they would accept the trade with Crisp why not our trade with Church and Gomez with Pelf and Heilman???
I agree, at this point the Yanks are struggling to compete for 5th best team in the AL. If Toronto can marginally improve, Yanks will miss the postseason without Santana in their rotation.
Twins lose by NOT dealing Santana. He has a no trade so he controls where he goes. They are not better off moving him mid=season and will lose him for 2 draft choices.
Dodgers won’t deal their propects but the Angels will. They have the goods. Mets are behind them.
Mets can offer Fmart/Gomez/Heilman and Pelfrey.
That a nice package IMO but Angels have more IF they want to deal.
While this is great news for the Mets, the Sox package is still better than what he suggest the Mets should offer.
Lowrie will start at SS for them-Fills a huge need. We offer nothing like that.
Lester-Is thought much more highly of than Pelf. We not agree, but it’s a fact.
Crisp-Migh not have Gomez’ ceiling, but he plays a gold glove CF and for 2008 will hit better than Carlos and fills a huge need for them.
Masterson-Might not be a proven bullpen arm like Heilman, but he’s controllable for 6 years, and at this point is as nearly well regarded as Pelf.
We need to hope the Sox decide to lower their offer, or the Twins decide they’ve had enough of Theo’s games.
From the Twins stance its better they send him to the NL, so the Mets do not necessarily have to beat the Red Sox offer, maybe just come close to matching it.
Santana has said he’d like to play in the NL so he can hit.
Forget the Red Sox. They don’t want to spend the money on Santana they just don’t want him coming to the Yankees.
The Mets are back in play. They may not have the best prospects but they can afford him. Who else can?
The Dodgers, for one. Not only do they have the financial wherewithall, they also have the young players that the Twins covet.
Agree that the Dodgers have the money and the prospects, not sure they’ll “spend” either though.
Sports reporters are reporting that teams have been reluctant to part with their prospects and have to pay Santana 150 mil on top of that. Obviously we have the cash, now Omar its your job to sell them on our ‘chips’. Theres blood in the water Omar, Go GET HIM! Pedro and Johan @ the top of the rotation would be a dream come true! The longer this drags on the better I like our chances… although Omar hasnt inspired much confidence in the last year and a half.
Ok its time to do this. A package of Reyes and Gomez for Nathan, Santana and the young SS they just got. Then trade Church, Heilman, Pelfrey and a prospect for Bedard.
Ok I am kinda just joking but …….
One problem with that is Harris is a fringe infielder at best, and is not a long-term solution at SS.
I hope so, because with the way the market has shaped up for Santana, Reyes and Gomez MIGHT land you him by himself, forget about Nathan.
Getting an ace is a great goal, but I’m not sure that it solves all this team’s problems by itself. I’m a little worried that the other pitching problems are not being addressed.
Keeping our fingers crossed on Duaner and Padilla is not enough for the bullpen. The lack of a reliable long man hurt bad last year.
The other problem is the Pedro schedule. It was nice to have him back last year, but he hasn’t taken the ball every 5th day since he’s been here. Having a once a week pitcher throws the whole rest of the rotation off, it probably contributed to the collapse more than we think.
Omar, you need to fill in the other blanks here while your working on the big deals.
At this point and based upon what has transpired this offseason, I don’t believe ONE WORD the Yankees say…
They refused to talk to A-Rod if he opts out, yeah, right… $300 Million later, he’s back…
They are out on Santana, yeah right… They are going to get him…
Now, lets make our move…REYES & PELFREY or MULVEY for Santana! Do it now Omar. Screw the whole “HOMEGROWN” thing! I want a damn #1 starter.
Guys – for Johan we back up the truck. He’s worth it. The Twins would love to deal him to the NL instead of Bos or NYY.
Give them an offer they can’t refuse. FMart, Guerra, Pelfrey, Mulvey, Gomez + Heilman if they really want him.
We can backfill for the bullpen. When you get an opening for a HOF pitcher in his prime (yes, i do think he’s still in his prime and will be for another 4-5 years) you do what it takes. We are in a position where we have to.
Exactly. Trade the damn farm for this guy. Not much of a farm anyway.
I’m assuming that by now the Twins have seen what’s growing on the Mets farm and didn’t find it appetizing. The part of your post I heartily agree with is the “backfill the bullpen” aspect. Alot of RPs with huge contracts stunk last year, and a lot of low service time nobodies (Tony Pena? Brandon Lyon? Manny Corpas? ) put up big numbers in relief. For the pen I say the Mets should just throw some minor leaguers against the wall and see who sticks.
Santana will be really expensive for the Yankees if the Red Sox get him and have a rotation of Santana, Beckett, Matsuzaka et al. It will cost the Yanks any chance of getting to a World Series for years to come. Twins have to trade him if they can’t re-sign them and they played their cards too long IMO. Mets should offer them a comparable package to what the sox are offering and throw in Estrada.
…if you guys toss in Estrada, we’re ready to accept…
Just out of curiousity: where to the Mets, Yankees & Bosox fit in with luxury tax if they sign Santana?
Yea toss in Estrada, because they don’t have Joe Mauer on the team already playing catcher. If the Mets prospects were appealing enough rumors would have at least been way more serious with actual offers leaking. The Mets have no chance at Santana. Trading out of your division/league matters when you decide you’ll be competitive (trading away Santana combined with Tigers’ deal yesterday makes that tough for the Twins in 08) and don’t want that player to come back and bite you directly. But they’re not gonna deal him to the Mets if they don’t feel the package is on the same level as their other offers. No chance.
Yankees are over the LT limit for the next few years at least so they would pay JS’s new salary plus a 40% penalty.
Red Sox are just at the threshold so it might cost them extra in terms of a LT penalty if they were to sign him … unless they shed salary (like Coco Crisp’s).
Mets can afford Santana and a new contract in ‘08 without going over the LT. They can most comfortably afford him out of those 3 clubs.
I think with their acquisitions they’ve already made this offseason, the Angels might go over the LT if they signed JS. But I don’t think that would get in their way. They would probably look to dump salary to be able to stay under the limit.
Dodgers are in the same boat as the Mets and can comfortably afford to add a big new JS contract. But, I think JS prefers to play on the East Coast. He’s building a new home in Florida and NY is just a hop and a skip away.
Mets are really well positioned to sign JS long-term …. except their prospects are not at the same level as those of the Dodgers and Red Sox.
“…and throw in Estrada.”
C’mon, are you serious? Reportedly, the Mets couldn’t give away Estrada for FREE to the Nats. There’s even talk of non-tendering Estrada a oontract. So he’s gonna help us reel in Santana? And why would a small market team want Estrada when they have Mauer? If anything, they’d want a cheap young major-league ready backup like Jesus Flores. Too bad we still don’t have him to throw in as a freebie.
Throwing in Estrada was a joke. Sorry you and the others didn’t get the sarcasm. It seems like alot of Met fans here have some pent-up Omar frustrations for the horrific job he has done in assembling this potentially 3rd place NL East team as presently constructed. I on the other hand have confidence that Omar is somehow going to nab a top of the rotation starter
The Mets have to bypass the Twins in this thing and go directly to Santana with a crazy contract, like 10 years 200million. Since Santana has a full no trade that’s the key. Let it be known what you would offer.
Offer the Twins Gotay, Mulvey, Church and Humber, maybe add Carp. Sign a Wilkerson type, or Jenkins, a solid vet for RF.
New stadium, new advertising, in 3 years that contract, aside from the years, will look fine. Think of it as front loaded, say 30M for the first 3 years so the last 7 cost about 16M on average.
you cant talk about contracts with a guy under contract with another team, thats tampering and its illegal. The only way you can do that is with the twins permission and normally that doesnt come until after the two teams agree on players involved in a trade.
That’s the rule . . . but we know there are ways to get your point out there.
I will forgive omar for the misplaying of milledge if he can get santana for a package of gomez, church, heilman, pelfry and humber. all you are giving up are two fourth outfielders, a good reliever and two potential starters
but i doubt anything will get done
Ok so I am sitting at work and reading as much as I can and following the winter meetings and after seeing some comments I really just need to address the whole winter meeting situation and the whole santana thing and its ridiculousness. So here it goes, the twins are morons if they dont trade santana( i know its obvious).
1. The red sox are only in the santana talks to block the yankees and its as simple as this the red sox are willing to trade 5 prospects for santana (this is crazy). The sox are willing to make this trade and they will only be gaining at most an extra 5 wins at most for the year. Lester has the ability to win 13-15 games and is very young and then give up the other guys and take on 20+million in payroll just doesnt make sense, other than keep him away from the yanks who struggled to find starters to pitch from game to game this year.
2. The angels prospects are so overated and always have been when are other teams going to wake up and realize this. Biggest example would be macpherson when he was said to be better than wright (upsurd) whose to say brandon wood will turn out any diff ( he seems to be macpherson all over again). The angels have ervin and jered (ervin sucked this year and jered was good) and then howie kendrick is good but they arent trading him. So overall the angels prospects are honestly in reality no better than the mets prospeccts however soe guy sitting in the stands says that isnt true( the same guy who said macpherson would be better than wright).
3. Now on to the dodgers they are to in love with there prospects to trade them (its the truth theres always talk but no action and they arent trading broxton). I know Kemp is goodbut if hes so good why isnt he playing full time yet I feel like its been over 2 years now of hearing how great he’s going to be but has yet the play full time (most great players play when they are being so highly touted). Overall the dodger arent going to package multiples of there prospects bc they like there prospects to much.
When it comes to the mets why isnt maines name being thrown in the talk. A package of maine, helman, gomexz is as good as anyone elses. And i know no one wants to trade maine but to be honest your getting a cy young pitcher and if u can def lock him up u have to do it. It works out for both teams and I think it needs to be considered a rotation of santana, pedro, perez, livan or silva, and el duque is real good.
Mets then need to draft well this year and make there farm sytem drastically better and hope fmart turns into the real deal this year.
You cannot trade a “definite” starter that can win you fifteen game for another starter no matter how good he is. Because if you do then you still have a hole in your starting rotation. Maine is too good to trade. I have no problem trading Humber, Pelfrey and Gomez or Martinez for Santana. But the Mets need to keep Pedro, Maine, OP. To me that is a no brainer.
trade beltran, et al….for bedard and tejada (maybe swap catchers too). flip tejada to the dodgers or angels for prospects. sign rowand or jones for cf.
you could follow up the bedard-beltran et al… trade by shipping maine plus prospects from the mets and either the dodgers or angels (from the tejada deal) to the twins for santana
santana
bedard
martinez
perez
sounds pretty nice…..
Am I the only one getting sick of hearing Santanas name? The Twins are just like the A’s they talk a big gazme then nothing!
If the Twins were smart and they decide they have to move him now then they should get him out of the American League. Maybe this is where Omar works his magic, and if he does, there better be a lot of apologizing on this blog AND no badmouthing of Santana because then you need to go to hypocrite.com and sign in.
If Omar gets Santana in a trade, that would be commendable but ti would be only because the teams with the better prospects dropped out of it. It would be like the Mets are the only partner willing to dance with them anymore.
Omar would still deserve criticism over the farm system and some of the moves he’s made in the last 12 months.
So in other words you can’t be made happy Vcarver
Huh? I am happy about some things. Unhappy about others. Fans who are always happy are just pollyannas. Fans who are always unhappy are just whiners. I’m a mix.
FYI, I supported the Milledge/Schneider trade (for now) and usually support Willie.
I assume you support everything the Mets do?
my understanding is that santana loses his no trade clause when the season starts, because he finished outside of the top three inthe al cy young voting this year. in which case the twins can keep him and trade him before the deadline next season
although i might be wrong about that:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/11/santana-has-ful.html
Can we slip in and grab him?
I like some of the ideas tossed around, but I would not give up Maine.
My idea: Gomez, Pelfrey, Mulvey, Rustich and 2 position minor leaguers.
(I really only want to hang on to Guerra and FMart.)
We can certainly give quantity, no?
this deal will only go thru if santana signs an extension to whatever team he gets traded to. if the twins make the trade and then santana doesnt sign, the deal falls apart, so the twins probably want to send him somewhere that he has the best chance of signing, so they dont waste all that time and end up not moving him. not that the mets couldnt sign santana but the red sox have the better prospects at the moment and so the twins probably feel better dealing with them right now.
just an idea. you see a lot of talk of who’s getting traded for santana but not about the contract extension, which to me is as important, if not a bigger piece of the puzzle.
Matthew wrote:
“…i’m glad to hear of this, because i can’t help but wonder why Ryan Church, Carlos Gomez, Aaron Heilman and Mike Pelfrey are not on par with Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Justin Masterson and Jed Lowrie, which had been the rumored deal being offered from boston…”
I’m of the opinion that NOTHING we have will entice other GMs in a trade not because we don’t have talent to offer but because the Mets are a virtual pariah right now. A combination of “the Collapse” and the constant devauling of our prospects in the papers has created a situation wherein Omar couldn’t trade our guys for a cricket player right now. Fact is: It’s very fashionable to bash the Mets. As a result, we will not make any significant trades this winter.
We can only hope that we acquire some half-way decent free agents and that Pelfrey will step up next year. Hunker down, fans. This is what we got. It’s not changing.
I only agree with you on the point that our prospects are seemingly of low value now. If we don’t make a trade, you may see Pelfrey (who will have a good year), Humber, Mulvey, FMary, Gomez and Guerra all progress… So, we could have some nice chips come mid-year or next. Doesn’t solve our problem now, but still…
I still believe that we have enough quantity in our system to get a deal done. If Omar and co. really want Santana, why not back up the truck? (but not Reyes, Maine or Ollie.)
[...] A.M. UPDATE: Friend of AG.com and ESPN analyst Keith Law reports that the Twins reached out to the Dodgers, Angels, and Mets regarding Santana. I’m not sure [...]