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Twins Manager Ron Gardenhire, regarding a potential trade involving Johan Santana, as quoted by the Jack Curry in the New York Times…
“We have to get people back that are going to help us in the major leagues. Everybody thinks that we’re just launching people. That’s not the case, or Santana would have been traded.”
…first off, that is clearly a jab at proposals from the Red Sox and Yankees, and the Mets, who have reportedly offered a collection of semi-proven talent for gardenhire’s ace…
…however, this remark from gardenhire is consistent with what i have been writing for the last two days, which is that, from what i can gather, the problem the Mets are having is not necessarily their upper-level prospects, all of whom actually hold fairly solid value on the trade market…the problem is that to acquire a player like santana, they’ll need to contribute an established hitter, who is young and under control, i.e., Jose Reyes or Ryan Church, not minor-
leaguers who are still in need of development, like gomez or martinez…the thing is, while most teams understand that David Wright and reyes are too much to give, church is not enough…
Of course, during an appearance on SNY’s Daily News Live, citing ‘two different sources,’ MLB Radio’s Seth Everett suggested that LHP Oliver Perez will need to be in the deal,’ because New York’s offer, as of now, ‘is not enough.’
…so, perez certainly counts as a person who can help the Twins this coming season, as gardenhire believes he’ll need…plus, perez is lefty, like santana…the thing is, perez will be a free agent after next season, so it’s hard to imagine the Twins wanting to acquire him, knowing he can just walk away in a year…
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i’m beginning to feel like a yo-yo
I was pleasantly surprised to click on the link to your myspace page and found out you are an attractive girl.
For some reason, I always assumed posters on this blog were all nerdy men…like myself.
nope
omar has to tell minnisota
take 2 out of these 3 - fmart, gomez, church
and 3 out of the following: mulvey, humber, pelfrey, heilman, gotay, guerra
and that will be our proposal.
we better not hear after santana gets traded that omar didnt want to put gomez and fmar in the same deal or something like that
i agree…bob klapisch was just on msg sayin how he feels the mets are in it just as much as the red soc are…and he said the twins are accepting the fact that reyes wouldn’t be included in a deal and that something like gomez martinez pelfrey and mulvey might be able to get it done…he also mentioned that he didn’t think it would happen in the next 24 hours…I’m not sure if I believe any of this but one can only hope this can be pulled off.
Gardenhire can’t sit on Santana. he’s going to have to deal him now. He may not have as many teams on the phone at the trade deadline. You will take what we give you and like it!
Or, we can give up Ollie, let him become a free agent, and then bring him back! genius!
You have surpassed your cut and paste usage Cerrone. We knwo Reyes isn’t going and that Church isn’t enough. Say something funny Mikey.
why would they trade for ollie? he is a free agent after next year like santana. it’s not like the twins will have the resources to re-sign him. it’s more liekly they’d want maine who is years away from free agency.
the twins also said they didn’t want guys that are arbitration eligible (cano, wang). who does fit there description? there aren’t many players who are proven major leaguers within their first year.
Oliver is a free agent to be and a boras client so i doubt the Twins are interested in him.
im fine if the twins say they want reyes and we tell them to go eff themselves. but if santana goes somewhere else and its bc omar didnt want to part with gomez and fmart or pelfrey and mulvey in the same deal then omar is officially the worst gm ever.
Trade Heilman, Gomez, Church, and Pelfrey for Santana, Pick up Dotel and Colon and X-man (Nady) when the Pirates option him.
perfect.. tell those dopey twinkies that.. thats more than anyone gets for an Ace who cant get paid.
Trade Reyes already. Then give them a deadline like Hankenstein.
hankenstein was laughed at and widely ridiculed for the deadline. great idea.
If we trade Maine, Wright or Reyes I’m going to slam my head through a wall.
Doofy, I’m with you 100% on this. Those are the three untouchables, in my book.
I agree. If they trade one of them, I am going to slam your head through a wall too.
j/k of course, in case you are bigger than I am.
How many of you guys remember that Ron Gardenhire was a Mets farm hand back in the early 80s and played about half a season at short for the big club?
Strange, but true.
I do!
I saw him play….lucky me.
wow this sure does all sound familiar. im beginning to feel like its groundhogs day
Do the Twinkies realize that they are not in the driver’s seat here? They have to trade him in the offseason, or they settle for 2 draft picks in 09.
I would rather have the packages that Omar is floating out there than 2 draft picks any day.
On a funnier note, my brother (RS fan) thinks Lester is a proven major leaguer and is also on a level about Jose Reyes.
o u didnt hear? every prospect outside of the mets organization is a proven major leaguer, most of which are better than reyes
**I meant to say above Jose Reyes
well stated.
their leverage also ends where Johann’s contract ends. Being that the team will have to pay big time to make the thing happen, the Twins really aren’t in the driver’s seat here, though the media and their “santana sweepstakes” doesn’t give you that indication.
If they want major league ready maybe Church plus Gotay, with Guerra and/or Mulvey and/or some other down the road type pitching, and maybe one of Humber/Pelfrey/Heilman to top it off if necessary. I doubt they’d want Estrada as they have Redmond and Mauer. That way Gomez and Martinez could still be around when Alou’s legs give out. They’d have to either start Endy or bring in another outfielder, and if they bring in someone it would be nice if they could play some first base (Green, Nady (who probably won’t be non-tendered, but could be picked up cheap probably, etc.) too so Marlon Anderson isn’t the only insurance there. Throw Carp in the deal too, if it helps. I know the Twins would prefer quality to quantity, but the kind of quality they seem to want doesn’t seem feasible, so maybe the right kind of quantity would do the trick. Right now they have Casillas and Punto at 2nd and 3rd, and Tyner/Pridie in center, and they gave up Garza to get Young, and the way they run things they like to have the shelves full. They’d be upgrading at two positions, adding an arm or two, and refilling the system with more than they’d get with draft picks. Would I be upset if I was a Twins fan and that was the return for Santana? I honestly don’t know. The fan favorite just ran out of town after California Gold, so I’d be more upset with Pohlad for not ponying up enough to keep the best pitcher in baseball then with Smith for not being able to make Dom Perignon out of lemons.
this whole thing is really starting to get me angry…
why should the twinkies think they should get full value for a player they refuse to pay full value?
the twinkies are in a bad position: they MUST trade santana, they have NO choice. they already have shown an inability to sign him after the season. so, they either get something of value back now or at the trade deadline, or they get a compensatory pick after he signs elsewhere.
so, the choices are:
1) keep him thru the season, lose him to free agency, and get ONE compensatory pick
2) trade him (now for a better or at the deadline for a lesser) collection of prospects that are years ahead in their development than the player that would have been taken with the compensatory pick in scenario one.
this whole notion that the twinkies need major league ready players in return is ridiculous and in complete conflict with their precarious position.
the twinkies must come to terms with the fact that ultimately santana’s value is discounted in this situation.
any asset, once the market realizes is a must sell, becomes less valuable due to the desparation of the seller.
come on twinkies…give it up.
actually, let me correct myself, i do believe it’s two picks in 2009. still, the argument holds.
lock down the board on this post.. email it to those dopey twinks and lets get on with life..
newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spken1206,0,3769010.column
ken davidoff restating the obvious..
all these reporters and pundits should all go home.. they’re wasting our time and the newspapers money..
I hope he at least got to the grand ole opry.. not that anyone would want to see that.
we freely give them our time.. if we didn’t read this nonsense, they wouldn’t spout it. But there’s obviously a huge market for it. Like in the Simpson’s Treehouse of horror episode, when the giant advertisements came alive and started attacking the town, the only way to make it go away is to ignore it…
Trade Feliciano, Perez, Heilman, and Mulvey for Santana. Trade for Brian Fuentes, sign Gagne. I can deal with that, any comments?????????
Throw in Church if you want.
wow i tried posting like 3 times and it finally worked by taking out the www- anyway things aren’t looking good at all for the metropolitans. read the article in newsday which was posted about 15 min ago.
as long as i broke down and posted a trade proposal, i might as well go all the way and say why not throw in Scheoneweis and Wagner and 7 (2.5 million for 08 and 09 to bring Wagner’s salary down to 8 mil or so,1 million a year for Scheoneweis to bring him down under three mil a year) million bucks or so and have the Twins throw in Joe Nathan. The Twins are likely to lose Nathan next year as well (Rivera and Cordero raised the bar moneywise, so three years of Wagner at 8 is a better deal than they can hope to get for Nathan), and he has been on the record as not wanting to be in Minnesota if everyone else leaves. I don’t know how or what it would take to get Wagner to agree to waive his no-trade clause, and that would mean extending Santana and Nathan AND likely Perez for next year and beyond, AND I don’t know if there would be enough left to go after Teixeira next year (if the Braves don’t extend him, and the fact that they haven’t already makes me hopeful, Hudson got one right after the trade, didn’t he?), but why not? In for a penny…
zzzzzzzzzzzz
omar should pull his people out and call everyone’s bluff..
Minney aint trading him for lester and crisp.. and no one else will move unless santana is locked up.
Let the Twins continue to play their games because if they keep Mr. S. ( I am starting to associate this name with desperation) then at the trade deadline they will have to take less because teams in contention will not give up talent that is contributing at that time when maybe before the season started they could have gotten the same players before the season started. They are more desperate than the other teams involved in trade discussions.
No way, no how, not while I am living can the Mets even consider adding Maine to a pkg because he has the tools to be at least a legitimate #2 for the Mets and still young enough to keep around for a long time.
of course no Maine or Perez in a deal..
Dont the twins, O’s and A’s look at other trades of aces due big contracts from small market teams?
No one gets MLB talent on par with Maine or OP or Reyes in the deal..
its just insulting.
let them have their pitcher.. so help me Pelfrey BETTER be ready to prove his worth.
Never mind other PITCHERS. Miguel Cabrera, one of the top three HITTERS in baseball didn’t get any MLB proven talent. And do not tell me Andrew Miller counts.
The Mets need to tell the Twins to get real and stop being ridiculous.
i’d be pretty Gagne-shy if I was a gm these day’s, and I don’t think the Twins want that much middle relief (perhaps not what Heilman’s destiny is, but definitely what they would paint him as), and I don’t know who the Rockies would want for Fuentes, but I don’t think the Mets would have it. If they were going to do a salary dump after winning the pennant….
And is it just me, or do the baseball writers for Newsday come off as very angry people? Granted the News and the Post writes sound like they’re making it up, and the Times is usually a bit behind everyone else, but Newsday sounds so often like some bitter, angry dudes.
Everybody is pissed off because nothing is getting done and they all look like fools who have no idea what is going on. Are they even in Nashville???????
I’m going to make things up and say I’m in Nashville also. Hey, the Red Sox are out of the Santana deal 12:10am
This just in Red Sox in the lead again for Santana 12:12am
Mets still have a shot 12:13am
12:15am - Mets GM announces signing david wells to a 2 year deal
12:16 AM Mets internet community collectively throws up.
Please tell me that is a joke.
newsflash.. 12:23 AM Minaya thinks he has the players to get santana..
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3143563
“We like our starting rotation. Would we like to improve that? Yes. Would we like to get a guy that’s an innings eater or a guy that’s a front-of-the-rotation guy? Yes. If we don’t, are we a good team? I think we’re a good team,” Minaya said.
That’s good, omar. Just ask and answer your own questions….
You forgot, you know what I’m saying
he SHOULD Say .. “we like our players and our prospects. that being said we are always looking for ways to get better.
Im happy with this team going into 2008 but will continue to explore ways to get better. Every GM knows my number and Im happy to discuss any player or deal with them.
That being said Im going home because some teams think they can play one team off another and Im not interested in playing that game. — Good night fellas”
Headline - Omar goes home early happy.
Steve Phillips is saying that everyone is out of the Santana deal since Detroit gave up so much to Florida. He believes the Twins are now looking for about 5 or 6 guys for Santana.
what did the twins give up?
Maybin looked overwhelmed like Gomez this year and everything i read on this Miller pitcher makes him sound like Pelfrey
i mean FLA.. duh.
DET.. Im going to bed
Maybin is only 20 with great upside. Andrew Miller is going to be a really good pitcher if he stays healthy and the Catcher kid is good as well. They’ll be MLB players for about 10 years or so. The rest I’m not to sure, I’ve heard of them, but I couldn’t give you exact details.
The Tigers got lucky with Maybin, he was rushed through the organization in a hurry. Let me sum up in a hurry.
GCL(rookie ball) 7 at bats .571 avg
LAKELAND(A ball) 296 at bats .304 avg
ERIE(AA ball) 20 at bats .400 avg
mlb debut 49 at bats .143 avg
I would say that is rushing him a bit
whatever.. I know Maybin is well regarded .. but so is Gomez and they both stunk this year..
Minney likes Gomez so all is not lost.. Im sure the O’s do too..
Point is neither Maybin or Miller can be considered ready for prime time.. like dopey ron gardenhire is asking for
Steve Phillips is a tool ! I don’t take anything that schmuck says seriously.
Ryan Church = MLB ready player
Heilman = MLB ready
Ruben Gotay = MLB ready
Pelfrey and Gomez= on the cusp of being ready
Now can someone tell me why when the Red Sox make an offer it is for a mediocre centerfielder and a few unproven prospects, but with the Mets it has to be Jose Reyes and or Oliver Perez or Maine…..Last time I checked Jose Reyes was an All Star this year……John Maine was close to being one……I feel like they think the Mets are desperate and can be steamrolled……Besides, wouldnt they prefer to get him out of the AL, or do all AL teams throw in the towel every year and root for the Red Sox and Yanks??
Look on ESPN.com, their’s a link of a new story on how Minaya thinks we have the players to acquire Santana
Those comments were on this board earlier already….Same crap from omar
If we give that up, we better win now. I see a painful future for us, absolutely no chips to deal for atleast 5 years. The free agent market better be good in the up coming years. Them again, this is probably a false story by a reporter that has to give something in for the day to get a paycheck. He’s down at the bar right now drinking with David Wells.
well it’s been almost 2 hours since metsblog’s last post…so it looks to be quiet for the rest of the night. Good night all.
Andruw signs with Dodgers…in case anyone else can’t sleep…
I was just looking to see if anyone else posted it to post it myself, but you just did while I was looking I think. Good job. Yeah 2 years for 36 million. I’m nearly ready for some sleep. I guess I got my story for the night.
Dodgers signed Andruw. 2 yrs/$36M
Give them Reyes, Humber, and Gomez.
Then sign Eckstein to take Reye’s place.
No way do you give Reyes and Gomez.
If you trade Reyes for Santana it has to be straight up unless they are including Nathan in the same deal.
Then you use Gomez in a package to get Bedard or Burnett.
You do not trade Reyes for anyone but Santana and its a 1 for 1 swap. Even that’s depressing and risky.