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During his appearance on WFAN today, SI.com’s Jon Heyman said the Mets do seem confident in their efforts to trade for Twins LHP Johan Santana, though Heyman has no idea why, adding…
“Every thing I had heard in the proceeding weeks was that the Twins are not that enamored with the Mets prospect…I think it’s gonna be tough sleiding for them, but they’re confident. If you ask them if you ask them if they have a shot, they say they have a shot, or at least a decent shot. So, maybe they know something we don’t know.”
To listen to Heyman’s entire interview, during which he adds inisght in to more or less every rumor from the last few days, go to WFAN.com.
This morning in the Bergen Record, citing ‘one person familiar with the team’s financial picture,’ Bob Klapisch wrote that there is ‘no way’ the Mets will ever agree to pay $25 million per year to Santana.
“Not even the Red Sox seem eager to go that high,” writes Klapisch.
…i believe this is true…however, from what i can gather, and as Omar Minaya has alluded to on record in the past, most teams, including his Mets, are not as concerned about the money as they are about the super long-term contract, be it for santana or any other pitcher…if for no other reason than because it will cost a lot to insure that sort of contract for a pitcher, assuming it can get insured at all…
…nevertheless, as i understand it, tdespite what others have written, the Twins like Carlos Gomez and Kevin Mulvey a lot, as well as Mike Pelfrey, more so than any other team it seems…also, the Twins realize that they are not going to get the type of zero-to-three, major-league ready talent, from any team, that they initially hoped to acquire, which is why Jose Reyes is no longer being mentioned…plus, the Twins have no interest in paying reyes, despite his affordable contract….
…i keep getting the sense that if the Dodgers offer up OF Matt Kemp and RHP Chad Billingley or RHP Clayton Kershaw, along with another piece or two, the Twins would accept it…however, it is widely believed that santana wants to be in new york or boston, and so i can understand why some of these other teams, like the Dodgers, Mariners and Reds, who may have substantial talent to trade, are hesitant to acquire a guy who they will never re-sign…this is why the Dodgers appear to be more interested in Erik Bedard, as are other teams…
…in short, the way i see it, the Mets can acquire santana if a) the Twins committ to trading him, b) the Mets come to grips with offering a six– or seven-year deal, and c) they offer the Twins a package such as Carlos Gomez, Kevin Mulvey or Fernando Martinez, Mike Pelfrey and Aaron Heilman, who can be their next closer if Joe Nathan gets traded…
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Aaron Heilman, who can be their next closer if Joe Nathan gets traded…
might be, but i think they already have that replacement. Pat Neshek
Can’t we just frontload the contract? That’s what the Dodgers are doing with Jones. Granted the situation isn’t the same but money shouldn’t be the sticking point anymore. This isn’t Montreal.
What do you mean? Jones is getting 9 Mil in 2008, 15 mil in 09, and a 12 million dollar signing bonus spread out over 3 years. They are going to give him 5 million bucks in 2010 when this contract is up. You can’t frontload a 2 year contract.
You’re a two year contract! What? No you’re right I worded that wrong. I just meant it would be better to over pay then to cheap out. We don’t have to pay 25 every year just early on.
How can we trade 3 prospects and then not sign him over 2-4 million per yr?
This details above make no sense if we are going to commit 3 kids entire careers for a 1 yr rental of Johan …are we now the 2003 Marlins?
Neshek is more of a lefty specialist or lefty middle reliever than a closer.
I would compare him to Pedro Feliciano or Jeremy Affeldt in 2007. Maybe even a lefty Joe Smith.
And your comment would almost make sense if Neshek was a lefty
Hahaha
Was I thinking of Guerrier…?
No, he’s a righty to.
I guess you can dismiss that comment. XD
This all sounds great….but i hope the Mets are still talking to the o’s as I;d hate to lose out on both the Santana AND Bedard sweeps.
idk… if you go by many people on this board, Omar may not be able to have 2 or more ongoing conversations at once. As soon as he switches gears to Santana, he cuts off all contact with the Baltimore front office. Its just too much for him to handle.
I think that Omar is low balling for Bedard, and getting MacPhail to trade him more quickly with all of this Johan talk.
They really can’t win in the future without the income Bedard can bring in now. They don’t have him for the long term, and it’s not impossible that he doesn’t have a good year or gets injured next year. His trade value could be at its highest, so they must trade him soon.
With the Mariners possible offering Clement/Johjima, Morrow and Jones, the Mets would have to trade Martinez, Heilman, Pelfrey and Humber.
The only fork in the road for the M’s is that O’s catching prospect Matt Wieters could be MLB ready by this September, and they wouldn’t do much with Clement or Johjima, unless Wieters is dealt afterwards, which would be a complete waste, because in a week Johnny Estrada would be a free agent and they could always hang on to Ramon Hernandez.
Yeah I’m not sure Omar can walk and talk at the same time.
just get something done. i have faith in omar…at least for a little while longer
yea i have faith in him as well. go all out for santana except for including players that we know shouldnt be traded such as reyes and do not include gomez and martinez in the same deal. GET IT DONE!!!
I’m sure Omar is talking to anyone who will listen. This Santana thing is starting to shape up alot like the Beltran scenario a few years back with the Mets being given virtually no shot to land him and then all of a sudden….
all of a sudden…..
all of a sudden……
…here comes Livan Hernandez.
Good one.
That was really funny. I hope its not prophetic.
Like Oliver sudden?
I’ll tell you ALL what is going to happen and here is how it is…
The Mets WILL get Johan Santana. And I’ll tell you why…
Johan will only play for New York or Boston… And he does NOT want to stay in Minnesota. The Red Sox wont budge on their offer and the Mets are desperately trying to get an ACE…The Twins will not settle on keeping Johan because they know they will not be able to trade him to another team as a rental in July… So trust me he’s being moved to the Mets. It’s taking longer than expected because Minnesota is trying to BLUFF. I am telling you ALL NOW, Johan Santana will be in a Mets uniform by NEXT week.
And that’s the BOTTOM LINE, so lets end the second guessing and WHAT IF’s.
I buy it. This week I go to sleep every night thinking maybe I’ll wake up and it will be the day the Mets have landed Santana. Why not us? Great post RealMetsFan.
I agree with all of your points but I see Minnesota calling back and accepting the Yankee deal before we get him.
arod too, santa
SAntana denied the whole “NY or Boston or bust” thing.
He was very mad about it too.
Anyway, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was a ploy to hasten MacPhail to trade Bedard, because there are less and less takers out there, and Bedard’s trade value may be peaking. The automatically don’t have him for the long run and have no shot at a winning record next year. There is a lot less reall competition for the guy, but if it’s official that Haren’s off the market the D’Backs could be crawling to Mr. Bedard.
I doubt that the Mariners have expendable youth that can top Martinez, Gomez, Pelfrey, Heilman, Humber and Mulvey (of course not all at once.). Why? Because they don’t. I’d take Heilman over Morrow, Martinez over Clement and Pelfrey over Jones any day. And also, the Yankees are too high and mighty to try and get Dan Haren at a Johan-like price when they overrate their prospects that badly.
If the Mets don’t make a deal, and Haren comes off of the market, the Mets are pretty much screwed unless they pull off a miracle and get Johan.
If Hughes is still on the table without us knowing it, the dela is already done. Cashman will reopen those talks and they will take hughes over anything the Mets can offer. I like your optimism but this is the bottom line.
this is like fr1ggin torture every day lol
Bob Klapisch wrote that there is ‘no way’ the Mets will ever agree to pay $25 million per year to Santana.
Sure. And Klaptrap also wrote right after A-Rod opted out that the Mets were going to go full throttle after him! Not that they were simply interested, but that they going to go hard after him!
He’s got little credibility.
I have the feeling the Twins want to send him out of the AL entirely. Ideally, from their point of view their preference would be something like this, with the Yankees their last choice:
1. Mets/Dodgers
2.. Angels/Mariners
3. Red Sox
4. Yankees
From Johan’s point of view, I bet it’s something like this:
1. Boston
2. Mets
3. Yankees/Angels
I think those 4 may be the only teams he would sign an extension with right away. I think he’d prefer to play on the west coast, but the presence of Tori Hunter in Anaheim may make him more amenable to playing there long term.
This is how I read the tea leaves. If I am close to right, I think the Mets may be able to get him in a trade. A long shot, but it’s more viable than I think some of the NY beat reporters like Davidoff are making it out to be.
Meant to say he’d prefer to play on the East Coast.
I would think Johan would be concerned with what his new team will look like after they trade for him. Which is why I think the Dodgers have been holding back.
despite what you read in the meternet, I think most people in baseball feel the mets are a very good team with a definite shot this year and a good foundation for the future. And even if we trade some of our top prospects, we will stay that way with the solid core of young ML players.
Excellent points, especially with the Twins wanting Johan out of the AL.
As for the beat reporters…Cmon they work for a business and like any business they report anything to make a $1. It’s funny, how one guy says one thing and then another guy comes back and says the complete opposite…
As I said before (post above) Johan will be a Met. It’s not wishful thinking. It’s the reality of things. Concern yourself more with how Ryan Church is going to perform because in May we’ll be saying “What was Omar thinking?”….
Depends on what the Mets are offering.
In value to GM Bill Smith:
Carlos Gomez = Jacoby Ellsbury
Mike Pelfrey Ryan Kalish
Kevin Mulvey = Justin Masterson
And considering the Bosox are offering Crisp, I’d say that the Mets package is enough.
Of course, my bet is that taking away Mulvey and adding Humber, and taking away Gomez and adding Martinez lands you with Erik Bedard, which is the scenario I want a little more, but either one is great with me!
I’d much rather keep Martinez and get santana then. But I have to think that as much as the Twinbills want Johan to pitch in the NL instead, they are NOT going to pass up a chance to get Hughes from the Yankees. this deal if still around will get him, he is that much better than any Gomez/Pelfrey package. He is already winning at the ML level and a potential Cy pitcher with that stuff.
Lets wait to see him put together at least 1 good full year before you even say he has cy young potential!
I agree that Hughes is a good prospect, but the overall package the Yankees offered wasn’t very good. Cabrera is nothing special.
I was speaking from the perspective of “if all other things were equal” meaning the packages. Then I think the Mets and Dodgers are definitely at the top of the Twins’ management list. And the Yankees are at the very bottom.
The Twins and their fans do not want to have Johan come back to their own stadium and pitch against them. It’s like an indignity.
True. But remember this isn’t Georgie’s team anymore. Mr. Cashman has more control over team decisions now.. and Mr. Cashman is more level-headaed.
NO NO NO NO.
Cashman is level headed but guess what, my friend!
Hammerin Hank…. STEINBRENNER is in charge of this team. He’s too arrogant and boastful of his prospects to give them up for Johan Santana or Dan Haren especially.
don’t trade martinez, trade church instead martinez should be our starting right fielder opening day, everybody thinks he is so good let him prove it.
Should the Mets start their 2020 catcher, who is 5 years old, this year too?
Yea…trade church instead of martinez, thats what a team wants, a mediocre 29 year old OF over a 19 year old phenom.
Metfan24…martinez is 19, theres no way he can start, so thats just moronic. Besides, bringing him up early to let him “prove it” could turn him into a bust.
Get some common sense.
it amazes me how many people have this kind of thought process
WHAT DID I TELL YOU?
Not surprised to hear that the Mets wouldn’t pay Santana, according to the link in the Bergen Record in this thread.
I told you people that Freddie Coupons will always be Freddie Coupons and that he wouldn’t pay Santana anyway.
Where are all of the Freddie Coupons backers now? Where are those clowns that were telling us all how the Mets were these “big spenders?”
This validates what I’m talking about- Freddie Coupons will always disappoint.
Nothing but a cheapskate. So yeah, Just keep raising the ticket prices Freddie!
you told us! you were so right! we are all so wrong! klapisch proved you right! oh, i am so red in the face for ever thinking wilpon wasn’t the cheapie you always told us he was, but man were we all so wrong. You are so lucky bob klapisch finally revealed the truth, because before this little nugget of baseless information you had no proof!
Freddie Coupons, whom I am not a HUGE fan of, is only protecting his business…but if Freddie Coupons needs to view it this way… they are opening up a new stadium, other new ventures with the Mets coming in, and the addition of the best pitcher in baseball to an already impressive offense and I’d say there is MONEY to be gained. If this was a pitcher known for injuries, I can understand Freddie Coupons being Freddie Coupons… and while a long term investment is a huge risk…. I’d rather risk it on someone proven over time than someone like Erik Bedard… who is just starting to shine.
Your just spewing more of your anti semetic garbage.
You’re impossible. You believe Klaptrap? He didn’t quote a Met official, in case you didn’t notice.
And I have news for you, many think both Boston and the Yankees won’t go up to $25M/yr.
I don’t agree with the firemetmanagement guy, but I have to tell you that I am not going to be thrilled if my season ticket prices go up dramatically and I am forced to watch the same team that crumbled at the end of last season, lead by the same manager.
Well that’s good, cause you wont be anyway. If you have not noticed we have a new RF, a new C, new BP arms and have Pedro back. So its no where near the same team.
I’m sorry, but are you a) taking what Bob Klapich wrote as a fact rather than speculation or b) did this already occur and you know it to be true? And if there was an article in another newspaper would you be citing that and saying “wow Fred Wilpon will pay Santana whatever he wants!”
It’s amazing how worked up people get over every piece of “buzz” that Cerrone posts. At this time of year there is enough crap out there to paint whatever scenario you want to see.
Why would Santana want to go to the Red Sox so bad? I’m sure he’d prefer the NL and pitching to the pitcher, etc. And plus he’d really have fun on Los M*ts with all of his countrymen.
c
Was that his grade in all of his 6th grade subjects?
Did he make it to 7th yet?
Wow- who would have guessed that Endy (our only Venezuelan player) would end up being the key to our landing Johan? Great job, Endy! Way to be Venezuelan!
Matt – I know its late and it has been a long week for you, but at the end of your statement, you added a weird or / and regarding the package…..is it Gomez, Mulvey, Pelfrey, and Heilman OR Gomez, Mulvey, Pelfrey, Heilman, and F-Mart?
Twins should think back to 1989 when they traded Frank Viola to us. In only 3 yrs they won the WS over the Braves where Aguilera was instrumental as a closer not to mention a couple of others. History does repeat itself. So maybe they should give it a shot!
y do some comments suddenly disappear??
Censorship…Mr. Cerrone is sitting at his local Starbucks laughing evily and saying “DWright is King my ass, more like JMaine is Queen!”
:)
it’s weird…i previously had commented on a rumor about yanks getting santana and nathan for melky, hughes and kennedy. my comment was there for a while and now it’s gone…..
what did i say that needed to be censored???
strange…
You mean it actually got published and then disappeared? Sure about that?
Never had that happen to me. But I’ve got caught in the spam filter where comments won’t show up at all. You can’t say certain words or it won’t show up. They are also picky about URLs.
yeah it was published. it was up for a while with a couple of replies. and i just went back to c if anyone else replied. it’s gone…along with the replies…weird…
Blame it on the software Cerrone uses… it’s not perfect, but creates a smooth dialouge in here.
I’ve had that happen too with regard to getting deleted after it’s published. I think perhaps if you delete a post, all the little indented posts under it are wiped out too.
Question – if we trade Heilman, Gomez, Mulvey and Pelfrey for Santana (which I am for), then who starts #5? who pitches the 7th or 8th? and who is the righty platoon RF with Church?
I know Church’s stats are decent and better than Gomez probably could produce in 2008, but heck I’d rather see Gomez in RF than Church…..
El Duque…Humber…Or a Free Agent….Won’t be a major problem.
As for Church…they will split Church with Endy as of now…
“As for Church…they will split Church with Endy as of now…”
Who platoons two LH hitters at one position?
I meant Easley… my bad.
Who is the #5 starter? Probably Livan Hernandez who would be a decent 5th starter. He’d be paid a very reasonable salary for a 5th starter as opposed to Carlos Silva.
Who pitches the 7th or 8th? Feliciano deserves the 8th. 7th will probably be either Juan Padilla or Duaner Sanchez. Brian Stokes could be an option. He’s not a bad arm if Peterson can tweak him a bit. Peterson will probably help him improve his change and replace his curve (his worst pitch) with a slurve.
Who is the righty platoon with Church? No one. Church hit lefties better at the end of the year. Mets could play Easley at RF if they needed. Ben Johnson could be an option if he has a good ST.
Opps… I meant Easley… thats who they said, not Endy.
The lefty/righty balance dictates that Dirty Sanchez would get the 8th if healthy. Feliciano fills more of the lefty specialist role.
They also just signed a Rule 5 today , named Register. He has to be on the ML roster or else they give him back. So he will very possibly work his way into the mid-to late inning rotation or specialists too.
Church isn’t that bad against lefties, is he?
Aren’t the Mets looking at Fettucine Alfredo Amezaga?
Aren’t the Mets looking at Livan or Colon?
My guess, based on the guys the Mets are looking at and the offers they’re making that they want to trade Gomez, Heilman, Pelfrey and Humber.
I’m not sure how interested in trading Martinez or Mulvey they are…
Been thinking about all the negative comments about our prospets, by outsiders and by fans here too. How many teams have the farm talent embodied in FMart, Gomez, Mulvey, Pelfry (not mentioning Humber, who was, until he was injured, one of the very best prospects). We also have some younger players who may turn out to be very nice pieces soon. Yet the story line that everyone has swallowed is our farm system is terrible. Sure, not as good as some, but surely not in such terrible shape as is said regularly now. Boomer and Carthon on the Fan this morning were bemoaning the state of the farm system, just parroting the accepted line. But if we do trade prospects for Johan, will everyone who said we don;t anyone good in the minors stand up and say that they were wrong (starting with Maddog)?
Your absolutely right… Our farm system will not be in shambles. Sure we wont have it as strong as before, but talent wont be hard to find. I always felt the farm system is somewhat overrated for big spending teams anyhow.
Maddog and Mike are clueless at times. They don’t bother w/ the Mets unless we’re reeling. They’re horrible barometers….
“They’re horrible barometers….”
No, not if you ask them.
What is a barometer anyway?
It’s pronounced thermometer……….
::silence::
the only way i would feel comfortable signig livan or silva is if we get santana. i would not mind having those guys at the back end. its the point where we only get them and not an ace is my problem
It seems like Santana will be a June/July casualty. Which is fine by me. Maybe some of these guys will show their worth.
Though the Braves look scary. They’re pitching staff strengthened w/ Glavine will be a lot to deal w/. Phillies are still dependent on the offense. Point is we need someone to counter. If it means Colon get him. When he’s healthy he’s close to a No.1.
MarvelousMarv,
Sorry but you are WRONG. The Twins will not be able to move Johan in July as a rental for a few months… Sorry. Either Johan is traded today or he ends the year as a Twin. Sorry its the reality of things. As I said numerous times, Johan will be a Met… Trust Me. ;o)
RealMetsFan,
From your keyboard to God’s 1,000,000 ft monitor my man! I sure hope so.
He will mean what Pedro meant to us except he’ll be in his prime instead of a trophy.
i think that santana said he will not waive the no-trade clause mid-season
he might if it meant a ring before he hits fa
I’m think the trade will come down to Carlos Gomez, Kevin Mulvey, Phil Humber, and Aaron Heilman for Santana.
Phil… its happening. The Mets will get Johan Santana.
Start asking yourself, whether you want the Santana jersey in White or Black?
red
I know, I am pretty confident too. I could see the Twins calling up the Yanks one last time though before a deal is struck. I still believe that Johan will end up in a Mets uniform anyways.
I still am swaying a bit more toward Bedard. With his injury risk, and coming off of the best season of his career so far, it would be a bit easier to acquire him.
The questions are
A) Are the O’s smart enough to trade him?
B) Will Omar fork up Martinez, Heilman, Pelfrey and Humber for him?
C) Will the Dodgers be dumb enough to offer Broxton and Kemp/LaRoche/Loney/Billingsley/Kershaw?
D) Will the Phillies become real players in the mix?
For Johan, I think that Gomez, Heilman, Pelfrey and Mulvey really matches what the Twins want from the Red Sox, so I think it is a possibility, but more teams are after Johan than teams that have a clear shot at Bedard.
RealMetsFan you are convincing me with your svengali ways. I love the positive vibes on here today. Very different from how its been this week.
I don’t think that the Dodgers should trade Billingsley or Kershaw. Both of them will be splendid for the next 10-15 years. Also, especially with Jones locked up for only two years, their offense isn’t ready to give up a guy like Kemp, and it’s getting harder to get a great closer, so they should keep Broxton in the long run or wait until he becomes one of the best closers in the game to trade him, if you’re willing to. The Dodgers are probably shopping Ethier to teams, and maybe Jon Meloan, who is a brilliant, but really unnecessary, possible closer or setup guy.
Based on what the Twins wanted from the Bosox, I’d think that Pelfrey, Mulvey, Gomez, Heilman and Humber would be around what should be accepted from the Mets. I’d offer that, and the same deal minus Mulvey, and plus a guy like Kunz, Smith, Niese, or Gotay for Bedard, but I really think that the Mets could get him for Martinez, Heilman and Pelfrey, with the possible addition of Humber.
Carlos Gomez, Aaron Heilman, Mike Pelfrey, Philip Humber & Jon Niese/Kevin Mulvey for Santana
OR
Fernando Martinez, Aaron Heilman, Mike Pelfrey & Philip Humber for Erik Bedard, with the possible addition of Ruben Gotay, Jon Niese, Joe Smith or Eddie Kunz, if it’s a real dealbreaker.
You must really want Livan, and to see a return of Lima time if (when) Duque or Pedro goes down, since you just traded every ML possible young starter on the team. And the primary set up guy, and fall back starter option.
When the rotation has Santana ( a nice thing) winning and Colon and Livan gettin gshelled and losing, and the Mets end up at .500, enjoy!
So you’re saying you’d rather trust prospects who have 5 and 7 ERAs, plus one with no MLB experience whatsoever over proven starters with ERAs in the high 4s?
Fine, don’t go after Livan or Colon.
Just stand pat and watch as Hernandez gets injured and Humber puts up hs 10 ERA. We rush Mulvey and then he becomes a failed prospect, and the season really relies on Mike Pelfrey.
Or do the same trade minus Humber for Erik Bedard, then sign Colon or Livan. Happy now?
PS: How concerned are you about the status of our 5 pitcher? I’m pretty sure any guy who is better than Trachsel will do quite well.
RealMetsFan, I love the enthusiasm brother!! I think 99% of us mets fans hope you’re right…as for the comment of Santana saying he wouldn’t waive his no-trade in July, that is correct.
I think the biggest thing we may have going for us is the fact that we are the NEW YORK Mets…we’re an East Coast team, where Santana wants to play, in the spotlight that he wants, on a team that can win it. Perhaps most of all, the flight for his family would be about 6 hours shorter than to a west coast city…
Has anyone noticed the scenario Jordan wrote about before (and got severely flamed for) is playing out pretty much to a T. That the Yanks would drop out, the Red Sox would lose their reason for pushing, and that talks would stall and the Mets might slip in. Granted the Mets haven’t gotten him yet, but still, nice job so far Jordan!
Don’t the Dodgers become the biggest competition now that they have flexibility to trade OFers after signing Andruw?
The Twins might as well trade everyone if they make Heilman their closer, that would give them almost no chance to compete. And the 4th thing to consider is if Boston really wants him, because THAT is the definitive issue, along with whether the Yankees decide to jump back in, which once the Twins decide what they want to do, you know they will go back to the Yanks who 9 out of 10 times can’t stick to any sane decision and would likely give up Kennedy or whoever to get Johan. Mets are still 1000 to 1 to get him.
The Mets are confident about getting Santana for 2 reasons.
Santana wants to pitch for the Mets. He wants to pitch in the NL where he faces a pitcher instead of a DH. He wants to pitch at a pitcher’s park like Shea (Citi Field will also have pitcher friendly dimensions.)
Santana’s agent Greenberg has a cozy relationship with the Mets. Greenberg represents Jose Reyes.
Santana will be a Met.
And the Twins are going to just do what Santana wants after he refused to resign with them. Please. He is likely just as happy if not more so to go to Boston where he has the best chance to get a ring.
Does it always have to be one negative comment for every positive comment, trying to have some faith??
we are talking about the Mets
The one thing that I agree with from this thread is that not enough of the press is considering Johan and his no trade.
oh and M&MD are almost always clueless.
Almost always?
They say what they had for lunch once or twice and I trust them with that.
Best thread of the day? Probably second this week only to the thread that had Omar trading fast food in his hotel room. That was priceless.
Look below when I am talking to Kramer XD.
my god, just get this over with already.
If they do finally make this trade, they will certainly overpay for a rental (or more accurately, the privlege to overpay a second time, in $$, for a FA).
But, Pelfrey should be off limits. He has way too much potential for being the stud to replace Pedro in 1-2 years.
Gomez, Humber, Mulvey, plus a lower line guy (Carp? someone like that), isn’t too bad. Adding Heilman, Pelfrey and Martinez is insane.
That, and any team giving 7 years to a 30 YO SP is also insane.
But, why is it gosspel that he is going to get 25 million? Just because he asks for it, doesn’t mean he has to get it.
Remember, this is not going to be a bidding war, since he isn’t a FA. It will be more like Dice K, where he has 2 options. Take the deal offered, or stay with his old team.
SO asuming the Mets only do this with a negotiating window (no deal in 72, no trade), what happens if they offer 5 year tacked on for 100 million, with some team option years? SOmething like that?
Will he say pass and eliminate the team he prefers to play for?
What if the Mets have an offer accepted by the Twins and Santana say 7/210 or I won’t sign? Are the Mets supposed to say sure, why not?
And finally, I want a list of everyone that says trade everyone and anything, and sing a huge contract. They will be forbidden from complaining when the team can’t fill a hole mid-season (due to lack of talent) and can’t make a run at a big name hitter like Tiex next year (no budget).
Santana will have every incentive to make a maximum demand from the team that’s trading for him. If they don’t like it, he’ll go on the open market next year and get his $25 million/year. He’s not obliged to help out the Twins. So there’s no guarantee that whoever the Twins end up with as a trading partner will sign. But if the Mets make it all the way to the 72-hour window and then try to lowball Johan, I will explode.
I say offer him 5/110. With an option for Year 6.
I agree that the team will need to hold some prospects back. One pitcher (at least) and one outfielder.
As for next year, with several big salaries coming off (Pedro, Delgado, Duque and Wagner), the Mets should be able to make a play for Tex.
Check that: Wagner has another year. But Alou’s coming off. Total savings ~$42 million. Sign Tex.
Oh, to the poster earlier that didn’t care who played RF or was the 5th starter.
Do you really think that 1 SP can make up for having a non-entity in RF, and Livan in the rotation? He pitches every fifth day.
Will you be comfortable with a team like the Phils had one year, where Carlton won 27 games, but the whole team only won about 65?
I disagree with both of your comments.
Mike Pelfrey could be very good. But he shouldn’t be off limits. If we trade for Bedard and keep Mulvey, we still have Maine, Perez, Bedard and Mulvey, with guys like Niese and Guerra who could be moving through the system quickly.
I think that Gomez and Martinez are interchangeable. Gomez has potential, but he still needs more minor league time, and to bulk up a bit to gain more pop. Martinez is also great, but further away, less unique and is a risk to bust or get injured like any prospect of his age.
Heilman is a setup guy who won’t be on this team past this year. He would be eligible for free agevny and would look for massive $$, and/or a closer or starting job.
Martinez, Heilman, Pelfrey and Humber for Bedard still leaves us with Church as a starter in right, which is effective, especially for a 7 hitter. Gomez can come in if/when Alou gets injured. We sign a Livan or Colon to the back of the rotation.
Lineup& Lineup in case of Alou injury:
Reyes Reyes
Castillo Castillo
Wright Wright
Beltran Beltran
Alou Delgado
Delgado Church
Church Gomez
Schneider Schneider
Rotation:
Bedard
Martinez
Maine
Perez
Livan/Colon
Bullpen:
Schoeneweis
Feliciano
Smith
Sanchez
Sosa
Hernandez
Wagner
Sign Eric Hinske for a righty bat if Gomez is traded.
first off, eric hinske is a lefty. second, ur lineup has a lot of lefties in a row. delgado church schneider then the pitchers spot leaves them VERY volnerable against a lefty late in a game. even if u put gomez in there its still 3 out of 4 that are lefty hitters.
Martinez, Heilman, Pelfrey and Humber for Bedard
OR
Gomez, Heilman, Pelfrey and Mulvey for Santana.
We may have to go for Bedard before the Phillies up their ante to get him. Of course, that would leave them empty in two outfield positions…
And then again if they get Bedard for Kendrick, Victorino and Prospect X, and sign Rowand and Cameron then we’re screwed even if we have Johan.
The smarter move is Bedard. And pray to God that MacPhail decides to trade him before Haren is off of the market. But if Haren becomes a D’Back then we have nothing to worry about.
the only way we should do this and give up the farm for johan is if we can lock him up for a good 5-6 years, give or take. i doubt money is in an issue where the mets are concerned.
with that said bring johan to new york! he was born to be a met.
Bedard if he’s cheaper… Probably more realistic as well.
Steal him from the Phillies…
yeah, i’m a fan of bedard, so i’d love getting him if we can’t get johan… plus, he’s canadian.
For those wanting to stop talking about Santana.
Does Jose Reyes = Barry Larkin with more wheels?
I think so.
Freddie Coupons won’t pay Santana like he should be. He’ll offer the “Vladimir Guerrero” special….aka a lowball offer w/ lots of incentives…
God I hate Freddie Coupons.
That will be the ultimate slap in the face- the Twins will accept our offer for Santana but then we won’t get him to agree to a contract in the 72 hr window.
Then we will lose him and the Yankees or stupid Boston will sign him.
Mark my words- ultimate slap in the face.
i love how you fail to notice beltran’s contract, how we gave pedro an extra year when no one else would, wagner’s contract, these are all examples of the Mets, in recent years (post Guerrero debacle) shelling out the big bucks to get players. Grow up troll.
Exactly, people like this base their thoughts on one or two misfires (Vladdy and ARod, which was not really lowball) and other focus on Kazmir, while like you mention, we’ve gone overboard and overpaid more often than not, especially compared to other teams. I mean, how many stars have we overpaid to be a Met since Guerrero was lowballed (by a different GM)? Glavine didn’t want to be a Met. Beltran wanted to be a Yankee. Pedro never considered the Mets until the 4th year. We even drafted Humber when no one else did and paid him over a million in signing bonus that scared off other teams, and consistently do that.
The ultimate slap in the face is your defeatist attitude and negative feelings that are based solely on stupidity and ignorance.
Minaya also sounded as though he doesn’t intend to cough up too much cash for a mediocre free agent just because the Mets appear to need help for their rotation.
“We’ll give our young guys a chance to pitch instead of paying a lot of money for a guy who gives us innings that might not be quality innings,” he said. “I don’t think you’ll necessarily see last year’s market be paid this year.”
Wow, I just read this. This is great and I hope he doesn’t go back on his words. This has got to mean he has no intention to sign Livan or Colon even for 1 year. If we don’t get a front line starter this is exactly what they should do. Let Humber, Pelfrey and Heilman battle it out for the 5th spot. If Heilman wins, put Pelfrey and Humber in AAA. Heilman goes back to the pen if loses out.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3144878
personally, I think taking a flier on one of these reclamation projects, like a Colon or a jennings, with no more than a year committed and a willingness to pull the plug on them, wouldn’t be a bad idea, along with the willingness to go with youth. But yeah, signing Livan to like 3 years makes me dry heave a little.
The problem is that they are never willing to pull the plug. They hang on and hang on till the losses pile up.
Also, how are you going to build up the value of our young starting pitchers for a potential trade deadline deal if you keep them confined to the minors? That’s the problem with blocking up the 5th spot in the rotation with poor pitchers with no upside.
i agree with you, the whole willingness to pull the plug hasn’t been the Mets mo with veterans lately. I’d love to give Pelfrey a shot, I think he’s going to improve. He already showed last year he was improving, and when you look at the progression at the major league level of sinker ball pitches (well, minus Carmona) it takes a while for the control to really come, especially pitching inside, which would help this kid out so much. He lived on the outside and then gets hit when he’s forced to throw down the middle when he doesn’t get ahead. That heavy sinker can be very hard to control, so given time, I’d like to see what happens with him, he’s still got the stuff to fulfill some of his promise, and we all know confidence can be a problem with him, and I do believe I saw some more of that in the last few starts of his. Can he build on it? I hope so. We’ll see.
Or, If Heilman wins, then put Humber or Pelfrey in the pen.
With you again V. Just restarting our thread from a different post but the idea is the same. If no major deal happens for an ace….keep the guys we have and go to war with one or both of the kids and include Heilman in the race for the 4 and 5 spot. Definitely need to add a more proven arm in the pen that will be healthy (i.e. Duaner is still a big risk). But since we have spent heavily in our high draft picks lately on college relievers….we should be able to dip into that pool some now with Joe Smith, Kunz, Muniz being there to help the big club etc.
I still do not like the Milledge trade but I can live with it since we had 3 “dynamite” OF prospects in our system. We did not kill the system too much and clearly the anti-Milledge publicity machine wore out the value of Milledge the player.
He may not be a superstar but I can see him being an allstar as soon as this year.
Incest….
Incest….
?
Once again, a late entrant swoops in and snags post of the day!
This friends is the IM generation…no one else knows what the code means, and they are contacting only those who know.
Genius! See if the Mets can use coder this to get Santana?
Kramer?
Is that Michael Richards?
Are you to stick a fork in my butt?
India, I believe.
Here, I’ll call Johan Santana…
COSMO????????????? The mystery is unveiled…
Your mother gave me a towel once, cosmo. She is a nice lady.
I’m picturing you cocking your head and saying:
“You let the cat ifgijfijfg RIGHT OUT OF THE BAG!!!!”