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According to multiple reports, while the Mets are involved in talks with the Twins for Johan Santana, they telling reporters that their position is no different then it was in previous weeks.
The Mets made an offer to the Twins last night, writes Newsday, who, citing ‘a person familiar with the talks,’ the Mets sweetened their offer to the Twins by adding players to the package.
However, the Twins insist a deal is ‘virtually impossible,’ as long as Jose Reyes is not part of the deal, adds 
Newsday.
Of course, according to Ken Rosenthal at FoxSports.com, citing ‘sources,’ “The Mets did not speak with the Twins about Santana on Wednesday. However, the teams met earlier this week, and the Twins gave the Mets a list of players they had interest in. The Mets did not say no to any of them.”
In the Star-Ledger, citing ‘two people familiar with the talks,’ Dan Graziano writes that the Mets essentially told the Twins last night that, a) Reyes, David Wright and Beltran are not available, and b) everybody else in the organization is, though the Mets are not inclined to include more than two or three of Carlos Gomez, Fernando Martinez, Pelfrey and Kevin Mulvey.
“The Twins’ response was that they would have to think about it and get back to the Mets,” writes Graziano.
…i.e., don’t call us, we’ll call you…ugh…
According to the New York Post, the Twins like Gomez.
In fact, at his blog for WFAN, Sweeny Murti says that scouts he had talked with are ‘split,’ when asked who is better, Gomez or Red Sox OF Jacoby Ellsbury.
“The verdict,” explains Murti, “Ellsbury is more polished, but Gomez has more potential.”
The thing is, as Adam Rubin writes in the Daily News, ‘the Mets don’t seem able to sweeten their offers much more than what has already been dangled.’
In Newsday, Ken Davidoff makes a similar comment to Joel Sherman in the New York Post, writing, “The rest of the baseball world doesn’t love Omar Minaya’s prospects as much as he does.”
“We are not trying to get average players,” a Mets official told Sherman. “We are trying to get a young ace. They should be discerning in what they get back.”
Sherman wonders if the best situation for the Mets is to hope the Twins keep Santana, try to win with him, and then look to move him at the trade deadline, concluding…
“Maybe by July such 2007 disappointments as Pelfrey, Humber and Mike Carp will have regained better value. Perhaps prospects the Mets feel are on the rise such as Nick Evans, Scott Moviel, Jon Niese, Bobby Parnell and Nathan Vineyard will have built alluring reputations…The Mets need that because, right now, they are not only short an ace, but also very likely short the ammunition necessary to acquire one.”
…the thing is, as i have written before, the sense i get, is that not only are the Mets willing to overpay in talent, short of wright and reyes, but they may also be willing to overpay in dollars to keep santana in queens…
However, according to Bob Klapisch, in the Bergen Record, citing ‘one person familiar with the team’s financial picture,’ there is ‘no way’ the Mets will ever agree to pay $25 million per year.
“Not even the Red Sox seem eager to go that high,” writes Klapisch.
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I am so tired of hearing about Johan Santana, it’s almost like hearing those Oakland A’s rumors that are close but do not happen. Except in this instance, they haven’t been close to anybody but Bedard who then weren’t close.
Mets should just move on, a Santana trade just seems impossible for the Mets.
If Pelfrey, Humber, and Carp are performing like top prospects at the middle of the season (presumably at least one at the MLB level), there would be no reason to trade them for Santana.
This is the typical mindset of what I’m reading on these boards day in and day out. Most of you guys only want to deal prospects when their stock is down and wonder why other teams don’t want to make the move. The one’s who’s stock is high no one wants to deal, even to get a guy like Santana, which is why none of you will ever be a GM and why your Omar bashing is hypocritical at best and assinine at worst.
I’m not trying to be a GM. But really, man, this is a harsh way to find out.
And my comment didn’t even include any Omar-bashing that I can find.
If Pelfrey is pitching at a top-prospect level (like Justin Verlander), I don’t think that the Mets would need to spend a number of players and countless money to upgrade to Santana’s performance.
Good luck with the interview, though.
If Gomez equal Ellsbury in the eyes of some Twins suits than perhaps we really do have a chance.
Twins wanted Ellsbury AND Lester…
Mets give Gomez, Pelfrey and Mulvey, and an additional prospect or two…
Hopefully that may get something done…
I am sure Omar has done everything he can do to try and acquire Santana. He has made several proposals and made it known anyone, short of Reyes and Wright is available.
That being said, I hate to hear peoples trade proposals. If Omar could have gotten Santana (or bedard for that matter) fopr any combo of 3 or 4 of our prospects, we would have an ace right now.
I tend to agree with everything you said, SheaHeykid, the omar bashing is a little ridiculous. Omar has brought the Mets back to competitiveness, and while I see him falling short of ultimately acquiring a big name this winter (due to lack of quality prospects), he has done a superb job in getting low risk high reward players that have worked out.
we better not miss out on santana bc omar didnt want to include fmart and gomez or some non sense like that or mulvey and pelfrey….note to omar i guarantee you none of our pitching prospects will turn into johan santana, let the twins take any combination of them.
It’s beginning to sound like all the teams are getting sick of dealing with the Twins.
I’m glad to see someone likes Gomez. I certainly haven’t been blown away by him. Sure he’s very fast and a good fielder, but until I see him hit consistently I have my doubts. Then again I still have my doubts about Reyes’ hitting ability. When I see his swing sometimes I tend to think he’s not really the guy who tore it up in the beginning of the season. Actually the more I think about it, the more I’d be willing to trade Reyes for Santana if that would keep the Mets from having to trade away their whole farm system (maybe trade Reyes, Pelfrey/Humber, and one lower tier prospect). Let them keep Gomez and bat him in the lead off position.
like you just said, Gomez can’t hit leadoff because he can’t hit, period.
I said he hasn’t proven it yet, but then again I’m not sure Reyes has proven what level hitter he is either. If the scouts hold Gomez in high regard I’d give him a shot and trade Reyes if that’s what it took.
To be honest…..
If the mets win this Santana derby and we actually come home with him…I am not sure how I will feel.
Lets say the deal would be Pelfrey Heilman Gomez and Mulvey for hypotheticals..
That is alot of talent leaving the organization….alot
For a team that is not deep in young talent, it would be a big blow. Add in the fact that at the conclusion of next year, Pedro Duque and Ollie are both free to go elsewhere.
We could have a rotation of John Maine, Johan Santana and Philli Humber plus the need for at least 2 more guys. Even with 3 high first rounders this year….they still take time to come through the system.
I think it may be better for us long term to stay away from a trade that takes 2 of the 3 best pitchers in our system.
Well first of all the top 3 pitchers are probably the most important because when you get into the playoffs. Plus I don’t think Pedro or Perez are running off anywhere. I’m sure they’ll resign with the Mets. It’s always easy enough to find a 5th starter somewhere as a free agent or in your organization, but finding an ace is a real rarity these days.
yeah GWG .. ive always been more on the no side to giving up this high price PLUS near 150 mil for Santana when there are other cheaper options.
The article states”However, the Twins insist a deal is ‘virtually impossible,’ as long as Jose Reyes is not part of the deal, adds Newsday.”
Now has anyone seen any proposed offer anywhere that includes a player of Reyes stature. WTF, why should the Mets have to give up a star player (a guy who has been talked about as a possible MVP in the past), and a team like the Red Sox only have to give up players with “potential”. This is starting to get reaal tired.
These rumors are ridiculous. Yesterday, we were hearing rumors from “sources” that the Twins understood Reyes would not be part of any package from the Mets and were willing to listen to alternative pacakages. Now these “sources” are saying a deal that does not include Reyes is “virtually impossible”.
Give me an effing break! I believe these “sources” are sportswriters talking to each other over a few beers so they can get some quotes for their non-story stories.
I agree. Reyes had one “off” 1/3rd of a season. You don’t trade someone of his talent that fast. Reyes upside is higher than anyone else on the team with the exception of Wright. Move on.
I would do Pelfrey Heilman Gomez and Mulvey.
Besides our young franchise players, we are a pretty old team, a win now team – hopefully every year.
Getting an Ace, does more than just slot in an effective pitcher every five days, it allows the rest of the rotation to take a bit of the load off of their shoulders. Especially Pedro’s shoulders, which have taken enough abuse.
If Heilman the most proven major leaguer were given up then do it. WHen looking back at the trade, even if these Met prospects pan out, you cant blsme them for the trade, it was for Sanatna. Plus thats with our trade package being considered weak.
Twins aren’t dealing with the Mets unless Reyes is in the deal. So stop trying to think of combinations of medicore players and prospects to get it done.
The Twins aren’t stupid. You need to give to get.
When 2008 starts, the Mets will be worse than in 2007, with another failed off season by Omar. They wont acquire an ace because they dont have the prospects, and dont want to spend the money.
At this point…….lets just look forward to the new stadium, because God knows Shea will be half empty this year.
How will they be worse than last year? Just because they are older?
well, the way it looks right now, they’ll definitely be worse at catcher.
if the Twins think they’re getting a major league all star PLUS top prospects they are no only stupid.. the are dillusional
Nice. So you’re saying that the Mets don’t have what it takes to make a deal, but if they don’t make a deal it’s Omar’s fault. I think there’s a group that posts on this site they are rooting for the Mets to fail next year. There must a name for this malady–this debbie downer attitude about a team that is at least likely to win enough games this year to keep most fans happy, especially after the bad years we all had to go through. No way this year turns out like 2003 and ‘04, but that’s the attitude. Omar ha dto bargain away draft picks to make the Mets competitive, and what I recall about the last two years is the most fun I’ve had as a fan since 2000. Oh, we didn’t win the pennant or the WS the last two years so let’s give up and watch the grass grow instead. Give me a break.
how can you say they won’t acquire an ace because they didn’t want to spend the money? Was their a stud FA SP that I missed?
besides, the Mets already have an Ace. His name is Pedro. We just don’t know how effective he will be over a full season!
And no, they do not have to have another one. The projected rotation is solid 1-3, and pretty good for the 5 hole with Duque (who won’t be in the pen) and Pelfrey to share time.
That leaves 1 spot to fill, anywhere from 1-4, but say at least a 2-3 level guy.
That means they will be solid (and better than last year) if they get someone better than Glavine. So if the trade comes down for someone at the level of Snell or Blanton (for example only), they will be set. And I still think Heilman could be the guy
2007 – Glavine, maine, Perez, Duque, perez
2008 – Pedro, Maine, Perez, new guy, Duque/Pelfrey
I will be happy to argue that 2008 is better. pedro > Glavine, Maine/Perez will be better with another years experience, the new guy will be better than 2007 Duque, and 2008 Duque is a wash, but Pelfrey should be much better than the early 2007 version.
SO I feel comfortable saying that, if they get a 2/3 mid rotation guy, the rotation will be better top to botttom, and will also be one of the best in the league. AL too.
And hopefully the new guy costs less (in players) than the huge package Santana seems to require.
Bedard would also be nice, depending on the cost.
to sum it up, the Mets can build a solid rotation, with depth (6/7 hole) without clear cutting the entire upper level of prospects, and for sure without trading Reyes!
Carlosgomezisfast hit the nail on the head with this one……Its like a popularity contest, and the Twins only asked for prospects and mediocre position players from the red sox and yankees, but from us it has to START with our All Star SS???? Thats like telling the Yankees “it starts with Jeter”……..Although the Twinkies wouldnt go there either b/c they are poor and now I dont even feel sorry for them that they lose their talent…..GIVE ME A BREAK “it starts with jose reyes”…….Im sorry but:
Coco Crisp, Ellsbury, and Lester < Jose Reyes
The reason? The Twins know that the Mets need an Ace more than the Yankee’s and Sox. They want the Yankee’s and Sox going after each other and then the Met’s to feel the pressure to do something rash. I still think that the Twins would rather trade with the Mets but are holding out for something stupid like Reyes and Gomez. No way.
The Yankees rotation is worse than the Mets. The only reason people ignore it is they have enough offense to cover for it, although not in the playoffs.
The Sox, however, don’t seem to really need him.
more like the twins saying to the Yankees it starts with Cano.. but hte Yanks have made Cano untouchable and the Twinks accepted it.. or not..
sadly they dont seem that flexible with the Mets.
i agree stick.. the yanks are supposedly planning on running two or three rookies in their starting five..
with their 170 plus million dollar payroll.. they should be considered the most desperate Ace player
I find it very hard to believe everyone except Reyes, Wright, and Beltran is available, while the 2 of 3 limit applies to just those players.
Are you saying that the Twins do not want some combo of Maine, Gomez or Martinez, and Pelfrey or Mulvey? And that the Mets would do that deal without hesitation? That seems like a great value for the Twins as Maine is farthur along than Lester, Bucholz, Hughes and Kennedy.
no way Maine (or OP for that matter) is going anywhere..
Omar is smarter than that..
hopefully..
you know what im saying?