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…by the way, now that they have trade Dontrelle Willis and 
Miguel Cabrera to the Tigers, the Marlins are set up to have a player payroll of around $10 million, for every one…
Cabrera and Willis were the remaining two players left from Miami’s 2003 World Championship season.
…and so, here they go again…they built a team from day one, won a ring in 1997, ripped it apart, rebuilt, won another ring in six seasons later, which they have now ripped apart, jut like the first championship team…if their previous pace is any indication, the Marlins should be back in contention at some point during the next two seasons, though i have my doubts this time around…
What the Marlins are doing should not be allowed.
They pull these stunts and complain about no fan base. We really do need a baseball contraction. These small market teams should not be allowed in the majors. The pool of talent in the majors is thin as is; and the difference between the have and the have-nots is alarmingly large.
It ruins the integrity of the relationship between fans and teams and thus baseball.
Agreed, and if contraction is off the table as it probably will be, we gotta set a minimum pay roll!!
Maybe just maybe if someone bites on a minimum pay roll it can set the stage for at least a soft cap.
If there’s revenue sharing, there has to be a minimum payroll – period. Basically the league is paying for the Marlins right now, and Marlins owners are making money off other teams’ contributions to RS. Absurd.
agree 100 %
I’m all for it. But what some of these small market teams do is just meet the requirement. They’ll go sign a Jose Guillen for $10mil/yr and be content. They’re still getting they revenue sharing money. It’s such a joke.
the fact that brian lawrence made a major league start last year proves the talent is too thin.
Or that the Mets are doing something very wrong in developing talent and/or spending money.
I think people rushing to this judgement need to keep something in mind – the Marlins CANNOT afford to be wrong when making a significant investment in players, even if they are young. Everyone is fraking out, but Dontrelle was AWFUL this season and they managed to get top return. And as good as Cabrera is, he is already fat and has attitude questions at 24. What if both continue on their current paths? The Marlins are stuck with 2 big contracts they can;t afford for players with diminished value.
They turned these guys into 2 blue-chip prospects in Maybin and Miller and 4 other useful parts. I wouldn’t call it a ’stunt’ – there was every reason to trade Willis now, and a team in the Marlins position can;t afford not to listen on anyone. Detroit stepped up and they made a deal. Payroll is hardly a measure of integrity.
I can see your point; but, at the same time, it’s not that it’s forbidden– it’s just tacky.
They HAVE won two World Series in that past 15 years. That’s more than most teams. I wonder how the players feel about it. I mean, a lot of guys go to that team, enjoy the success, and then get to finish their careers somewhere else (sometimes another winning team).
Hmm…it’s still pretty hard to fathom that the Marlins have won two World Series since 1997, more than the Mets (that’s for sure). But, at the same time, I don’t think I would want to win it that way. I guess there’s more to baseball than just winning.
theres definitely something to be said about being able to go into every year thinking “we can win it this year” as opposed to the marlins, who aside from those 2 championship teams pretty much never have a chance at anything.
And to be honest, without the wild card and a few lucky breaks, they wouldn’t have even made the playoffs.
Couple things here:
1. The Marlins need to be either removed from Florida or from MLB. The team doesn’t work there.
2. The Wilpons should be embarrassed by the Marlins that they were able to build/buy 2 championships in the past 10 years. The Mets in theory should have been able to do what the Marlins did and keep the team together because the Mets actually draw.
What I’d do if I were MLB commish is move the Marlins to San Antonio or Las Vegas. Then put the Marlins (change that lame name) in the Al West and move the Pirates back into the NL East. That way all the divsions would have 5 teams.
Perhaps if Vladamir Putin took over as Commish then teams could be moved around at his discretion.
The problem with moving the Marlins to the AL is that if each league has 15 teams (odd number of teams), then you’d have to have an interleague matchup everyday of the season. The real solution is to contract to contract two teams and end up with 28 teams (14 teams in each league). Of course, the MLBPA would never go for the elimination of 50 major league jobs.
I agree with the spirit of the moving them west, to the AL West, and then making the Pirates part of the NL East…
Would that really mean they’d have to have interleague games every day of the season? I know it would create a problem during interleague play, but I would think there’s some way it could be worked out with off days. No?
The lineup below can be an impressive lineup in 2 – 4 years. Some of these players are very talented and can continue to get better. I think they will still score and strike out often. I can still expect to see spotty defense from the Marlins.
Cameron Maybin cf
Dan Uggla 2b
Hanley Ramirez ss
Jeremy Hermidia rf
Josh Willingham lf
Mike Jacobs
3b
Miguel Olivo C
If things stay as they are they’ll be moving Ramirez and the other stars of that group within 4 years.
I disagree — what’s the difference between what they do in terms of buying rings and our desire to trade for guys like Santana, AROD or signing players like Beltran? While what the Marlins do may appear to hurt the game, they have still won 2 World Championships to our zero since ‘97. They are just better than us at assessing talent and signing the right players. Their strategy, as ridiculous as it may seem, works. Works better than what we do at least…
Not quite. Granted I agree that their talent evaluators are better.
They pump and dump. We, rich as we are, do not dump as much.
The pump and dump method is a disgrace to all sports and the worst case scenario of free agency. It has made a mockery of the game.
I think the Marlins are smart. They bail out when they can’t win and build to a time when they can. With them it is all very stark because of their fan base issues, but frankly, it is wise, IMO, to build up rather than to patch up. If the Mets were willing to say, “it ain’t our year,” once in a while, they’d cash in too. And with their ability to pay more than the Marlins, The Mets could adopt and adapted version of this strategy and making winning much much easier. I’m not saying they should bail every year, but certainly during that summer of Kazmir selling would have been very very prudent.
We all like to see homegrowns do well, but we never have the patience to let it pan out. There are many Met loyalists who will wait out difficult seasons if there is hope coming through the ranks. I hate it when that hope gets traded for little or nothing. (Kazmir, Bannister, Milledge, Owens, Lindstrom…)
I agree with that. We suffered through the brutal years of 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004. After the ‘01 team bottomed out and the ‘02 team was a disaster they should have rebuilt with youth.
It looked like we were doing that for a minute. But now we have a team that is very similar to the ‘02 team. If you look realistically at the Mets it’s a bunch of older players with a very limited minor league system. We’re 2 or 3 injuries from disaster. Sure you can say so is every other team. But if you look at the Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Dodgers and Angels they are all in better shape than us in having young major league ready players and a minor league system full of potential backups and valuable trade bait.
If you remove Reyes and Wright there is no other position player on our roster that anyone wants. Maybe teams would be interested in Beltran if he had a lower salary.
Bottom line, this Mets team is a house of cards. I hope it can be secured before it collapses.
I dunno about anyone else in the trade but i think Andrew Miller alone was worth Willis. If he’s healthy then Miller is an exceptional prospect. I think he will be very good in the NL from the outset.
Re the above comments: they have one two WS titles. The fans should be pretty happy. Plus, its fun to watch a young group develop together (at least it is for me). Finally, Willis may really be in decline and Cabrera is far from a perfect player, talented as he is.
What the Marlins do is horrible for the game. There needs to be a resolution for this franchise soon because this fan base is embarrassing, just like changing the devil rays name to the rays is embarrassing. Their logo looks like a single A team.
Contract a team that buried the Mets at the end of the season. Where is the fun in that?
We get the last laugh hahahaha
For what it is worth…I think we start the year against the Marlins and I hope we sit on Hanley Ramirez head. Fire darts into the ground 4 times every time he is up and pitch to everyone else. Personally, I’d love to walk him 14 times in the three game set and watch him just go berzerk realizing the rest of his team should be in A ball.
There’s something wrong with baseball when Andruw Jones will make $8 million more than every Marlin next season, coming off a .222, 26 HR, 94 RBI year
why is it horrible? they are in a terrible market and they make smart moves. they have no fan base so they cant afford to sign superstars like cabrera and dontrell (hanley in a few years) so they have no choice. they stock up on the best prospects in baseball and win with them then get rid of them when they cost too much. it makes good business sense.
everyone seems to forget when they were in the playoffs they didnt sell out either….even with a good team on the field the fans dont care….they are in a bad market and do the best they can with what they are given.
to say its bad for baseball is dumb, it promotes trade and gives the underdog a chance at winning a WS every few years.
What about the revenue sharing money?
Just pocket that too?
A payroll minimum should be mandated, and further (this may be the case already, I’m not sure), they must be required to put any money from revenue sharing back into salary…
I don’t see what the big deal is. We try to buy our way into the playoffs by signing these superstars to expensive contracts. The Marlins instead build from the ground up by signing and keeping talent and once they win they trade for prospects to do it all over again. Why is this wrong?
It seems to me that you guys are saying the Marlins should have to keept their players forever, however, with that logic the players should be required to stay with their teams and not go into free agency.
So we would never have had Beltran, Pedro, Delgado, Piazza, and so many more Met greats.
So again, why is this wrong?
What we’re doing is wrong as well. Of course we’re usually the buyers of a firesale!!
That’s why teams that can’t or refuse to spend money must be contracted
“2. The Wilpons should be embarrassed by the Marlins that they were able to build/buy 2 championships in the past 10 years. The Mets in theory should have been able to do what the Marlins did and keep the team together because the Mets actually draw.”
That would not work here. The fans here are too impatient in NY and they think they know it all. The Mets and Yanks play in the biggest market in the country but at the same time, they also play in front of the most impatient fans that exist.
This is why you will not see either NY team (or basketball or hockey with the Rangers) do a complete rebuild. It’s always a partial one or none at all. Fans here can’t sit through a bunch of nonames. Some would but the majority would not. Do you honestly think they could sit through all these bad years like Colorado had? By bad years I mean where they did horribly AND didn’t have any real stars on the team. No way.
So you cannot compare the two markets.
This is an excellent post. Could you imagine the heat either team would feel if they went with a whole team of rookies like the Marlins essentially had with Girardi?
Yea, cause you never hear the fans say, “let the kids play.”
I think you are not correct about that. It’s not appropriate this year, obviously, but I think enough Met fans would stick around for good young players rather than watching the Mo Vaughans of the world. True fans are patient.
Matt your such a homer and name dropper I’m not surprised you don’t get what the Marlins do. They actually pay players what they are worth and not overpay players obscene contracts.
Do you really think A-Rod is worth 30+ million and a large percentage of your payroll? While the owner does not deserve to own a team, I will agree on that, he does what he has to do as a businessman.
Why don’t you ask Buster about that eh or your idol Omar Minaya?
How is saying Buster Olney called him name dropping?
If he had just said his “source” called, you’d cry Shenanigans. But since he named him, it’s name dropping.
Seriously, some of you people are unbelievable.
actually arod is pretty close to what hes gonna get
go to http://www.sabernomics.com….bradbury analyzes players contract based on what they contribute to the team and how much money they bring in…..believe it or not most teams dont overpay by that much
The Marlins won’t exist in 2 years.
i dont see why any met fan can think this sucks. maybe the pattern is disturbing to you but right now it helps the mets because the uneven scheduling of divisional opponents we get to now play more games against a crappier team. i am happy fatty cabrera and the d train are gone.
now if i were an indian fan, then i would be pissed.
playing the marlins didn’t exactly help us last year did it? we also have 6 against the yanks every year.
besides, if you’re a yankees fan, can you really enjoy the championships?
I’ve said it all my life. One of our championships is worth 20 of Yankees’ because it means more. Here’s an analogy, we can appreciate a Mercedes Benz, on what planet can Paris Hilton appreciate a Benz?
And I’m not using the Yankees to express my jealousy or closeted fandom, it’s because they’re at the polar opp of the Marlins. so don’t bother mentioning that.
i dont get what your talking about. this trade makes the marlins worse, a team we have to play a lot. that is good for us, regardless of what happened last year.
and who’s talking about the yankees? im certainly not a yankee fan, if thats what youre implying.
Too all of you who say its good business to tear apart and rebuild, whatever happen to keeping a team together for as long as you could and letting your fan base grow attached to them. What’s going on is crap. The hell with it if it makes business sense. It doesn’t make BASEBALL sense. If they can’t play in this era of free agency then they need not play at all. Get out of Florida or get out of baseball altogether!
Since when is it okay to rip apart a team and have a team salary that is far below what they receive for revenue sharing! Sure they got back great prospects. So what. They wont spend any real time in Fla. The second one of them is arbitration eligible he’s gone! Thats no way to run a baseball franchise. This is baseball for godsakes. They could have won or at least competed for few more if they kept they’re teams together!
Its just amazing how these Marlins are spread around.
The Tigers now have huge parts of the 1997 (Leyland, Sheffield, Renteria) and 2003 (Pudge, Willis, Cabrera) Marlins teams.
We finished last season with 3 1997ers (Alou, Castillo, Conine) and of course Alou replaced a 4th in Floyd. Hopefully we won’t add another in Livan. The 2000 NL Champs featured 3 more (Leiter, Cook, Abbott). Toss in Bonilla and we’ve had half the 97 team play for us. And from 03 you’ve got Castillo and Conine again, plus Looper, Gerald Williams, and Castro.
For a team that doesn’t want to deal in the same division….
A World Series Championship is nice, but is it worth it the way the Marlins are doing it?
(I wrote a good amount here, but never really made a good point, so I erased it and decided to go with just the following)
What would you rather see happen in 2008-2013:
1) The Mets win the World Series in 2008, but then demolish their team. By the end of 2009, Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Maine, Perez, Pelfrey, Humber, and Heilman are all traded away for prospects. Play awful baseball for a couple of years until the new group of guys mature and become playoff worthy in 2012.
2) The Mets continue to play quality baseball during these all these years, regularly make the playoffs, make the World Series a couple of times, but can’t seem to win it.
They only thing I see wrong with this is that they are pocketing the revenue sharing, which is meant for teams to somewhat compete with signing players.
Otherwise, it’s genious. They take a big star and trade him for 1-3 stars of the future that are somewhat ready to play now. It’s not like they are signing A guys, but typically guys who have got their feet wet in the majors and have done decent so its not as risky; see jacobs. Then after a couple years, they trade that player for a few more top players of another teams youth and repeat. This way they are constantly getting very good young players who are very hungry to show off their skills playing all the time and may not be intimidated to do so by a veteran being around. I doubt they’ll ever need to listen to “know your place rook”.
I think it’s great and wish the Mets did it to SOME extent. Imagine flipping veteran players like Delgado, Alou, Pedro, Castillo, Wagner and getting 2-3 good prospects a piece to build a team around Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Maine and OP. Say a few of those propspects pan out and now you have a good young players built around an already solid young nucleas.
In fact, if we did that minus the cheapness of the Marlins, we could probably get more back in return than the marlins typically do by eating some salary and we’d have a stacked farm to trade for any particular missing pieces. A. Jones fetched an incredible salary this year with such crap numbers last year. We could easily move Delgado for some promising youth.
well I guess with the money they get from revenue sharing they should have about 30 mil to put towards building a new stadium… right?
The Marlins plan actually has merit, it just looks rather slimey and underhanded. The fans have to suffer through 3-5 years of terrible ball but they get a WS team as a trade off. Its not a bad deal if you’re a small market team.
They did make some rather poor choices on who they traded for, the LoDuca trade brought them nothing for instance. And I think firing Girard set them back a couple years, but I wouldnt be surprised to see this team compete for a playoff spot while Hanley Ramizes is still an arbitration player, and if Maybin becomes the beast everyone thinks they could have a solid team for 2-4 years.
As built now they kind of remind me off the A’s when Hudson, Mulder, and Tejada where thier future.
Ted…
I think you are absolutely on track here!…