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Last season, despite several rumors linking the Mets to him, LHP Barry Zito eventually signed a seven-year deal with the Giants that will pay him roughly $18 million per season.
In the first of year of the deal, Zito was 11–13 with a 4.53 ERA in 34 starts for the Giants, though he had a 3.31 ERA during his final 13 starts.
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Should the Mets have traded Seaver?
Well this is unfair, i guess. I just voted no…..but hindsight is 20/20…..if he put up a 17-6 season with an ERA in the 3’s….would more people be voting yes???
I guess I don’t feel that Zito would really be anything more than a #2….most likely a solid #3 if we signed him….and thats why I feel it wasn’t worth it.
Then again, with the way the market is…..18mil a season for a #2/3 may not be such a bad deal.
if he had that kind of season, of course we’d say yes. But many of us said last year that he wasn’t a true #1 and didn’t deserve that contract, then he fell on his face. Good (non)move, Omar.
Not for the ridiculous amount of years he wanted. Money was never an issue with Zito, it was the years….
Sadly, it will be the years issue w/ any starting pitcher. There will always be another team out there to give out 6, 7, years for one of these guys….when face it, deals like that for starters are disasters. Unless you can get these young stud pitchers coming up through your farm system, and develop your own aces, you will be forced to shell out 7 year contracts to these pitchers.
Even Santana…..hes what…29? When he will get his 7 year deal…..hes gonna be 36-37 (depending on when he signs) at the end of that contract…..all while he’s collecting 25million a season…..thats a very poor business move….however, it is one you must make if you have dug yourself into the hole the mets have (in regards to starting pitching)
I hear what you are saying, but Zito and Santana are two different types of pitchers…for ace quality, I can see where the exception will be made (not saying it’s right, but I can see the logic). But most people never considered Zito to be an ace.
It’s amazing what one 20 win season (while young) can do for someone. Teams will never give up on you.
Agree Cyclone,
Santana is a very consistent picther with a compact motion. That means he is less likely to have a catastrophic injury. He also is just fastball-changeup and not much else, not a lot of cutters, sliders, curves all high stress pitches.
Zito is a curveball pitcher, lots of arm stress, high likelyhood of injury and he has a crazy delivery which could lead to a bad back and bad hips and knees (like the other big 3 from Oak-town, Mulder and Hudson).
Santana is the Pedro of his generation, you give Santana whatever he wants in terms of years and money. Also, he’s a lefty and lefties tend to have longer careers.
Lastly, Johan has a track record of being a top 5 AL pitcher for the last 4 years, Zito was dominant for one year, and then completely lost it and has yet to find it.
I don’t think zito was gonna sign with the mets no matter what was offered.
Well Omar and Co like pissing Free Agents off somehow……Delgado and Zito…….what the heck do they say to them to tick them off so much for them to publicly bash the team regarding their strategy?
#1 Zito is as California as anyone can get sans the blond hair
#2 What is up with that? What did the Mets do for Delgado to go to the Marlins instead of the Mets? The Marlins?
$4 million more total plus no state income tax… and then the salary escalator to cover any loss due to taxes following a trade
tHAT’S IT? Mets couldn’t match that?
Should of traded for Zito in 06 when we needed him.. and signed him before he hit the FA Market..
And now lastings got us Church and Scheiner, and we put Steve Trachsel out againt the Cards instead.. doh!
even if he went 17-4 with an era in the 3s we still shouldnt have signed him……the length and money were wayy to much for a guy that doesnt have the stuff of an ace
Wow…and this, coming from a surfer dude like Zito. :-)
I mentioned earlier that the Mets may be inclined to trade for Zito. If the Giants are shopping their pitchers for OF help, why not trade Gomez and a prospect for Zito and cash? Zito at a 6 year contract for around 16 million a year does not sound that bad. Who knows he may turn things around with Peterson.
b/c he sucks
He sucked as much as Dontrelle Willis last year pretty much. it was a bad team. He has a relationship with Peterson, Shea’sa good park to pitch in, it’s a good team with a good chemistry..etc etc. He could’ve succeeded here. Was he worth it? money is no object, more money doesn’t mean you have to produce more, just that you make more money.
Whatever it takes to get a guy here is waht he’s worth. maybe the years were too long? nah. he’s still young. he won’t be old at the end of the contract.
You don’t compare him to our #1,2,3,4..you compare him to our #5, because it’s THAT guy that he would replace. You can’t say he’s a better/worse ace than Pedro/Glavine, but that he’ll do better in his 30ish starts than the guy who would pitch if we didn’t have him. The same with any pitcher we try to sign.
I still think it was a big mistake not signing Zito.
can’t give 18 mil to a #5, clubhouse will be filled with resentment, not to mention all the pressure.
His record would have been much better playing for the Mets vs. the Gints.
Why do you say that? Because our bullpen would have held more leads for him?
The Gints had Bonds and a Double A team for offense. I think a little more run support would have helped. Plus, he went 7 innings more often than our starters did. Having 5-6 inning pitchers allows more of a chance for the bullpen to blow it. 7 years would have been tough to swallow, but at least signing him would have kept us with some prospects, where as this years alternatives are…
To be fair, ALMOST ALL pitchers would have better numbers pitching for the Mets.
btw zito went 7+innings 7 times
Maine went 10 times
Ollie 10 times
Glavine 6 times
El Duque 8 times (24 starts)
Please don’t make up STATS to prove your point
Face it, Zito sucks and is worth nowhere near what he got.
zito would have been better because the mets had one of the best defenses in the majors last year. #2 in the majors according to Dewan’s +/-, or something close to that.
that contract still sucks tho. even if zito had 17 wins and 3.5 era i would still be skeptical of the judgment of the whole deal. unless zito improves this contract is going to look like one of the all time turds.
I’m pretty confident Aaron Heilman can put up a 4.53 ERA as a starter. And he doesn’t cost 18 million per season.
Ain’t that the truth.
Extremely valid point.
You can’t be serious enough to think that
1) Heilman is better than Zito
2) Zito will not have a big time rebound year.
I never said Heilman was better that Zito. I simply said Heilman is better than a 4.53 ERA per year pitcher, that’s all.
1) not necessarily saying Heilman’s better
2) what makes you think Zito’s going to bounce back?
Good point on #2. His fastball is at 85-86 now as opposed to the 89-91 it was when he was with Oakland. I don’t see how he’s going to have a “big time” rebound year unless he gets some velocity back. All hitters did last year was let the curve go by and sit on the Brian Lawrence caliber fastball.
3.36 ERA in August and September. I also expect players to remain at or near their career averages until age becomes a factor. I fully expect him to have an ERA below 4 next year.
before i retort, what’s a “big time” bounce back?
How do you feel about is declining peripherals? His w/9 are alright, but the biggest problem is that he doesn’t k many people and his hits per 9 have been increasing each year. A lot of people saw this coming.
Except for Brian Sabean.
i would take just about any wager on zito having a ‘big time bounce back’ year in 08. nothing i’ve seen indicates he is substantially better than the way he pitched this year.
well he would have been slightly over .500 with the mets. #1 more run support. #2reunited with peterson
if he won 11 on an off year with SF, he could just as easily win 15 with the Mets. plus that was only one year; his ERA will be better this year. and wins /losses is all relative to two major factors: ERA plus run support. Zito has no control over run support (or very limited anyway). considering the giants can’t hit, zito’s record will reflect this. now i can guarantee zito’s ERA improves greatly in 2008, mark my words.
but the real factor in answering this question is something we don’t know? what is wilpon’s alloted budget for minaya to spend? sure i’d take zito right now if i had steinbrenner signing checks. he wouldn’t be the worst met pitcher on their staff and he relatively durable compared to pedro/el duque. this question is impossible to answer unless we are provided with the payroll the fred wilpon is willing to spend.
If Zito needs the Jacket, then he also needs to reduce his $$ demand and give it to Peterson.
What the Marlins are doing should not be allowed.
They pull these stunts and complain about no fan base. We really do need a baseball contraction. These small market teams should not be allowed in the majors. The pool of talent in the majors is thin as is; and the difference between the have and the have-nots is alarmingly large.
It ruins the integrity of the relationship between fans and teams and thus baseball.
Mel Antonin was on the XM baseball show this morning, and talked about how the Marlins total payroll will most likely be under ten million! Holy crap!
unbelievable
Couldn’t agree with you more. Look how many stud players they have turned out over the years and had to trade away.
Speaks volumes for their farm system and scouting though. Imagine they could afford any kind of payroll.
“had to trade away” is pretty silly. They have the money and the fans (when the team is decent) to support a midlevel payroll. They just have cheap owners who want profit, not wins.
I agree, please retract the Marlins and make them our AAA team. It’s silly to have these teams out there that are the breeding ground for other teams.
If I were the Marlins, why not trade anyone making over a million. Sign a player manager as well, no need tying up that money for nothing.
Matt created a post about the Marlins and how all the players from their WS win are now gone.
I typed up a reply, but when I went to submit it, the original post was gone.
Is it coming back? I have a comment for it! haha
Yea, i just copy pasted on this post. I wasn’t going to waste all theat typing.
You guys have short memories. What did the Expos used to do year after year after the ‘94 strike (they were on their way to a division championship and likely the WS that year)?
The Expos gave away
John Wetteland
Randy Johnson
Cliff Floyd
Larry Walker
Ugeth Urbina
Javier Vasquez
Moises Alou
Vladimir Guerrero
Grady Sizemore
Brandon Phillips
Cliff Lee
I am forgetting at least another dozen studs that passed through their ML too. What’s my point, just move the Marlins to a city where they will be appreciated. Baseball in Florida, in the summer, without a dome!! Are you kidding me! Miami in the summer is either disgustingly hot and humid or rainy. Either way, I would never want to go to a ballgame there with any regularity.
why shouldnt the marlins’ FO be allowed to do whatever they want with the team? its theirs. i didnt see anyone complain when the dealt us delgado and lo duca for peanuts. well, until this year anyway.
Good poll. ;)
Now let’s ask the same question with Jason Schmidt and Freddy Garcia.
Btw, if anyone has forgotten, Freddy Garcia was backed by Mr Met, aka MisterMet, aka _________, as THE frontline ace Omar should have gotten last year. If Mr Met says it, it must be true.
I’d still like to get either of those guys, garcia on the cheap of course as a reclamation project.
Yeah, Zito isn’t worth the contract, and will be scary as he gets toward the end of it.
‘
But, purely from looking at 2007 (and probably 2008) the Mets would have been a better team with him, and almost certainly would have made the playoffs last year.
Everything else staying the same, Zito would have effectively replaced the 5th starter. So the pre-September Pelfrey starts, and all of the Williams/Vargas/Park/Lawrence starts, would have gone to Zito instead.
Well, almost. There was still the period where Pelf was in the rotation and Duque was out I think.
Anyway, if you look at the record for the 5th spot (3-20? something crazy like that), even if Zito was around .500 at 13-13, the Mets probably win 3-4 more games and make the playoffs.
Right now, Zito pretty much is Glavine. Just younger and paid more for a lot of years to come! But a 2nd Glavine would have still been better than what we ran out.
Hey, were is the breaking news on the Rule 5 draft? Maybe the Mets get lucky?
Ah, no chance they draft anyone that will stick. Just hope they don’t lose anyone good this year!
Didn’t they increase the coverage years from 5 to 6? Was that for this draft, or last year?
Becomes important when you bring in a bunch of 16 YOs!
steven register 24yo RP from Colorado, “best slider in Rockies system” per Baseball America.
stickguy, does the age you sign a player matter? I thought the meter starts running from their 18th or 19th bday, not the day they were signed?
darned if I know.
Sign Colon for the first half of the season, then when he gets hurt , put in Freddy Garcia.
Freddy Colon
Bartolo Garcia
Both throwing to Bramon Schnastro (no where near as cool as Torreastro sounded).
without a doubt they should have signed him last year. he might not have been an ace but would have been a whole lot better with a team that can actually score some runs. and he has had a knack of pitching some good games in big spots…
Agees Catch right at the top says it all about this poll. Inane.
I don’t think they should have signed zito, but lilly and mench would have been fair signings, especially when you look at this years FA pitchers, and the $$ they are going to get. also i didn’t like trading away bannister last year and like even less now.
blond free…
Great post!!…