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Mets GM Omar Minaya, while leaving the un-eventful Winter Meetings, as quoted by the Daily News and Newsday…
“If those guys are not going to be traded to us, we’re kind of ready to go with our team as it is right now…
“To me, it’s about quality. It’s not so much getting a guy. We will not be afraid to give our young kids a chance to pitch instead of going out
there and paying a lot of money for a guy who gives a lot of innings - but they’re not quality innings. There’s a lot of demand for those guys. I’ve gotten a lot of hits on our young guys.”
…from what i can gather, again, it’s not so much about the money, as it is about the long-term contracts…for instance, Livan Hernandez is rumored to be seeking at least a two-year deal, while Bartolo Colon is seeking something similar, or at least a hefty option for additional seasons…Freddy Garcia is said to want a lot of guarantees, for a guy who will not pitch until after the All-Star Break…so, given that the O’s and A’s may not trade their best pitchers, making livan, colon and garcia more valuable, i can understand their demands…but the Mets should not meet them, nor do i think they will…of course, should the Mets alter their position, i believe they are the front-runner for freddy and for livan…
In a recent poll of more than 3,000 readers of MetsBlog.com, roughly 70 percent of respondents said they prefer the Mets sign Hernandez or Colon, while allowing Mike Pelfrey and Phil Humber time to develop.
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Well while I can’t say anything particularly good about what Minaya HAS done so far at least I can say something good about thing he HASN’T done, like signing Livian Hernandez or Bartolo Colon. Especially to a multi-year contract.
He said what I’ve been hoping he’d say all the time. Livian Hernandez will give you innings, but if they aren’t quality innings then what’s the point. I still hope he can pull off a deal for a quality starter, but if he can’t give the young talent a shot.
If he can’t get a starter, he should still consider a trade to shore up the bullpen.
Originally I was supporting getting an innings eater type, but if they are asking for multi-year deals, I would need to think about it…
Arguments for “Innings Eater Type”
-The 5th spot in the rotation was an absolute blackhole for the team last season…If we had anything close to an avg #5, the team would have gotten into the playoffs, but instead, got just 3 wins out of that spot.
-The loss of Glavine’s 200 IP needs to be accounted for. Pedro and Duque generally will not go more than 6-7 innings, and Maine/Perez are no guarantees either. In order to avoid last season’s fate with an overworked pen, you need someone who you know will give you the number of innings.
-Mike Pelfrey was rushed. He has only pitched 90+ innings in AAA, over two years. He needs some seasoning to refine his approach. Playing devils advocate, say he did lockdown a spot in the rotation, and gave you close to league ag. production- He’ll still give you a maximum of 150-180 ip.
-This pitcher would be your 5th starter, and therefore pressure to perform is reduced. A line of 180-220IP, 4+era, .500 record would meet, if not exceed expectations.
-Low risk, high reward: Signing guys like Colon or Garcia to an incentive laiden contract can mitigate the potential of poor performance,
Reasons against “Innings Eater Type”
-Generally these types of acquisitions have failed in the past…Erickson, Ishii, Lima, Gonzales, Park, Williams, etc.
-All the available pitchers to have red flags, be it injuries with Garcia/Colon, poor recent performance (Livan) or just price (Silva). In addition, giving these players multi-year deals increases chance for failure, and blocks younger players from contributing
-Expanding on the point above, it is difficult to build a player’s percieved value in the minors…The best way is for the player to acheive ML success, and could perhpas be packaged for a frontline pitcher in July.
-Pitching in front of the eyes of the ML coaching staff, plus accomplished pitchers (i.e. Pedro) may help the younger guys develop faster.
Ultimately, it comes down what the situation is…If he is able to get a guy for a one year, or incentive deal, it would be ok. I would be against anything much longer than that…Not so much concerned about the dollars on the deal, so long as we are talking 1 year, or 1 year+option
Thank god! I pray Omar doesn’t sign any of these free agents. I mean yes there inning eaters however if there giving up 8 runs a game in 6 innings is that a good thing? I still think Omar is going to try his best to get Santana. Gammons was on Espn radio and said the mets need Santana most and it’s possible Omar will make seperate trades to get what the Twins want. I am really hoping Omar can get it done…
I agree with the above, no inning eaters. When we get these retreads on our staff we are bound to them no matter how bad they do and how well somebody else might be doing in AAA.
Where does it stop? Are we bringing back Kaz Ishii?
I think it’s time to make Heilman a starter
bartolo colon is due for a good season. Trade for johann and sign colon
I certainly appreciate Omar’s position. Don’t make a move just to make a move. Everyone is talking about Pelfry’s stock dropping after a bad year. And while, yes, he had a rough start before being sent down, he definitely showed some big game grit against Atlanta in the stretch run. I’m as comfortable counting on him this season as I would with a Livan, Garcia or Colon.
I agree. As I remember, he pitched a few tough games there at the end…he looked considerably better when he came back from AAA. I too prefer him to the garbage floating around out there.
BTW – That’s 12 hours between posts for Mr. Cerrone. I think he actually got some sleep last night.
Poor guy, talking about one subject all the time should be pretty tiring after awhile and Matt seems to manage to do that.
While I am in favor of giving guys like Pelfrey and Humber a chance to prove their worth (They may be show cased in the first half to be trade bait in a mid-season deal ), there had better be a plan B in place just in case they do not perform……
I think this winter is a bit of a market correction … free agent signings were getting out of hand last year, and the teams that went into many of those large contracts for mid-range talent mostly regretted it. Now you see guys still asking for long term deals, and many have gotten nowhere with it (eckstein, jones) Mid-range talent looking for marquee, long range deals, because no one else is on the market is really just silly to me, but it has become the norm. I think Boras’ era is starting to come to a close, the gms have stood firm, and contracts have tamed a little bit. A-Rod’s histrionics helped that process along a little … he may be the first big Boras client to actually go to a team that he wanted to, not just the highest bidder (though of course some would say he went to the only bidder)
The trade market is similarly inflated, with the Twins, A’s, and Orioles dangling their “aces” to teams they perceive to be desperate, and asking for top talent for a one or two year rental. The thing they’re missing is that these desperate teams are only one or two pieces away from where they want to be, and trading a Jose Reyes or equivalent would be back peddling, filling a need by creating a hole. I think the Twins are going to regret not coming off of Santana, though they can probably get similar deals in season. I don’t think they’re ever going to get the deals they’ve been asking for, and if they hold on too long are going to end up holding an empty bag full of two draft picks.
This is the best news I’ve heard out of Omar this offseason (well, except maybe for the Mota trade). I only wish he had manifested the same attitude about second base (giving Gotay a shot — in a platoon with Easley — instead of giving 4 years and a lot of money to Castillo) and right field (keeping Milledge).
look, he didn’t give a lot of money to Castillo, he basically gave him 4 years for 3 year money. $25 mill over 4 years is not bad, at all. You can complain about the 4 years, but if after 3 you see he’s not going to get it done in the 4th, thats not too bad to swallow.
“We will not be afraid to give our young kids a chance to pitch instead of going out there and paying a lot of money for a guy who gives a lot of innings -”
I hope he MEANS that. If he ends up signing Livan for 2 years plus an option and pairing him with El Duque in the rotation, I won’t be happy.
If a trade can not be made to upgrade the staff, I just really hope he means the young guys will get a chance. A real chance. Not a “we’ll give you a chance if and when one of our veterans gets hurt or underperforms”.
I dont think the Mets will rely anymore on El Duque as anything more than a spot starter. He can very valuable as a multi-inning reliever, I think. Oliver’s roll of two years ago seems about right.
Here’s what we know about Livan Hernandez:
He will pitch a lot of innings.
His ERA will be between 4 and 5.
He will be on the DL at some point this year.
He will cost us one of our two #1 draft picks.
No thanks.
John, minor correction but he will not cost a draft pick. He is a B free agent and will be getting his former team only a sandwich pick not our #1. So, we still get the pick from the braves (18), our pick (22) and our sandwich pick around 32. I think also that the sandwich pick for the dbacks would be lower than 32 based on the value of the player (livan).
I don’t want him just thought I would try to correct a mistake here.
Wouldn’t surprise me if his ERA was also above 5. COmbine that with the DL piece, and I wouldn’t bet on a lot of innings either!
he won’t cost us a draft pick!!! not condoning getting us, but if you’re going to make an argument, get the facts straight.
Omar is preaching to the choir to me with these quotes. Making a trade for the sake of doing something is usually a bad idea.
Also, picking up a mostly washed u old guy is kind of pointless. They do have 2 pitchers that have talent, and some ML experience, that are just as likely to do OK with regualr work.
It seems like Omar’s plan is to either get someone really good, or just go with what he has, and it is hard to argue with that.
Oh, a note for all the posters that are worried that the Mets are now a 3rd place team, the rottion stinks, etc.
The cover column in the Phila. Inquirer today was about the Phillies pitching woes. Gillick pretty much came out and said he didn’t expect to be able to add anything (evena 5th starter) so what they have may just be next years rotation.
And that is Hamels, who is a stud (assuming his back holds out), Myers moving back to the rotation (talented, does weaken the pen a bit) as the top two. Hard to argue with that.
But, 3-5 are Moyer at 45 and shakey, Kendrick after 1/2 season (will he be for real and hold up?) and Adam Eaton with the snappy 6.5+ ERA.
The only way the Mets could be as bad at #5 is to sign Livan!
So, Pedro, Maine, Perez and Duque doesn’t look too bad after all, even if Pelfrey slotted in at #5.
I would do the Braves, but I don’t know what they have after Smoltz (old) Hudson (injury prone? and Glavine (yuck), but probably about as bad as the Phils.
plus the Brave also lost some offense. Losing Renteria and replacing him with a rookie may hurt them, and while Andruw had a terrible year, he was still someone you had to respect and pitch to carefully.
The only two real offensive players you have to be concerned with is Francouer who has never seen a slider he he didn’t like and Chipper who is going to have two stints on the DL. And there’s their bullpen or lack of one.
Right now I see the NL east as really a two horse race – Mets and Phils
Trade Aaron Heilman to the Mets Rotation for the Mets starter Mike Pelfrey.
I’m all for giving the young arms a shot, but that would mean a lot of mixing and matching over the course of the season with guys shuttling in and out of the rotation constantly. Basically, we have only two starters (Maine and Ollie) who can realistically pitch a full starter’s workload next season. We all know that El Duque will be on and off the DL, Pedro hasn’t gone a full season since 2005, and all of the other rotation candidates- Pelfrey, Humber, Heilman and Mulvey- pitched too few innings last year to possibly be effective over a full season this year (we all saw at the end of last year with Maine what happens when a kid tries to suddenly increase his innings workload by 30 or 40%). So even if Maine and Ollie stay healthy and effective all year (which is always something dangerous to assume about any pitcher), and if all of these guys are deemed ready for as full a shot at starting as possible, that leaves us with three rotation spots split up among six guys who can be effective for somewhere between 50 and 75% of a full season of starter innings. That’s actually cutting things pretty close even if they all turn out to have the seasons we think they might be able to have and none of them end up in the bullpen. I’m just afraid that even in this best-case scenario, we’ll end up with a taxed bullpen and spot starts by what ever aging guys are stashed on the AAA roster.
If we sign another starter that can reliably give us innings that are at least better than Lawrence/Lima innings, we can have the flexibility to have El Duque and Heilman in the pen if we want them there and still have two slots (plus the innings missed from possible injuries) to split up among the remaining four part-season starters. Frankly, that would make me a lot more comfortable than hoping we can mix these guys in and out of the rotation exactly right so that they’re all (or at least most of them) still effective at the end of the year.
finally, a GM with enough backbone to stick with young talent in NY.
“We’re kind of ready to go with our team as it is right now…To me, it’s about quality. It’s not so much getting a guy. We will not be afraid to give our young kids a chance to pitch instead of going out there and paying a lot of money for a guy who gives a lot of innings.”
Well what’s Omar supposed to say, “We’ve failed to acquire an ace.”? Of course he’s going to talk up the guys he has because that’s all he can do. He certainly isn’t going to bad mouth any of our players, nor would he bad mouth the job he’s doing.
Bottom line is that our rotation, even with the addition of Livan or Colon, isn’t good enogh to take us to the World Series. Win the Division? I don’t know but I can say, with certainty that it’s not good enough to win the World Series, let alone get there.
Yes, we need an innings eater. But we also need an ace and that’s a fact. I do not want to overpay for an ace, I am not a “Sell the farm” type of guy but given the recent market and our options we don’t have much of a choice. Everyone, with the exception of Wright, Reyes, Beltran and FMart should be on the market – if necessary.
I’m certainly not panicing but I do think that in order to win it all we need a Santana, Haren, Bedard type of guy. While I love Pedro, Maine and Perez they simply can’t match up against other teams Top 3…
While Pedro may not be a #1 anymore, I think its reasonable to say he can match up with another teams #2 or 3. Maine and OP I think still have a ton of potential they can unlock and hopefully surprise us all.
I think its crazy to give Livan a 2 year deal. If he is serious about really wanting to pitch with his brother, then one would think he would take a year salary for cheap to do that. This could be a good backup move as hopefully its short term, cheap and won’t cost us a draft pick. Who knows, it may even bring the best out of Livan and El duque.
Yay!!! Let the kids play!
Xanax….
Xanax no prescription. Xanax. Side effects of xanax….