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…having talked with a variety of people over the last few days, ranging from those who are connected to the team to people connected to player reps to those who work in media and for teams who are following the negotiations, from what i can gather, Johan Santana prefers to be on the 
Mets, where he can a) be in New York City, and b) get out of the hitter-dominant American League…
…the Twins are well aware of this, and are willing to accommodate his request, while also trying to maximize the level of talent they get in return…
…so, over the last few days, if not longer, the Twins have been speaking on and off with the Mets, who are willing to flood them with young talent, but who refuse to provide a major-league ready, immediate-impact player, like Jose Reyes…
…since the Yankees and Red Sox will not part with more than one or two of their best prospects, acquiring up to five or six semi-developed, high-ceiling players from the Mets is starting to be Minnesota’s most attractive option, and they’re comfortable with that - especially considering that santana can ‘strongly suggest’ he end up in Queens, seeing as he has a full no-trade clause…as such, the Mets and Twins have essentially agreed upon what players can and cannot be involved in the trade, and so it’s now up to santana and his agents to frame out a contract extension…
…however, while santana wants a seven-year contract, the Mets - like most teams - will not offer more than five…and understandably so, since a) it is nearly impossible to get such a contract insured, especially for a pitcher, and b) it is widely believed that the Yankees and Red Sox will not have offered him such a long-term deal either…at the same time, he is the best pitcher in baseball, and believes he should be compensated at or above the same level as Barry Zito, which is understandable, as well…the thing is, i do sense that he and his agents are willing to work out a solution to get him to Queens, and so they will not take a hard-line position like zito and Scott Boras did…
…in other words, from what i can tell, if santana doesn’t end up on the Mets, it most likely means that either a) he and the Mets could not agree to the terms of a contract extension, b) the Twins simply chose to keep him for one more opening day, or c) the Twins had no choice but to skip over the Mets to accept a much-better offer that they couldn’t refuse, and santana did not stand in their way, which all is still very possible…
…i still do not have my hopes up, but i do have hope…
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freddie coupon. =(
open up that purse will ya…
ps..if the mets and twins do agree and we decide not to open up the purse strings…it will be like…
a-rod, guerro, kazmir all over again……
mets not doing what it is necessary to win….and go for the gusto.
Do you really think the Mets would even be talking to the Twins re: Santana if they didn’t already get the okay from ownership?
and is there some way to institute a ban on the nickname “freddy coupons” on this site? it’s not funny, it never has been, yet people continue to use it any time a story remotely involves ownership.
Agree with you both that 1) The Mets would not be talking to the Twins about A-Rod now if they weren’t prepared to meet Santana’s price. and 2) Freddie Coupon is not only so tired and cliched but also not a very apt nickname for all the money the Wilpons are spending these days. Remember, most of the cost of the new stadium is being funded by the Mets.
Agreed–the nickname is unnecessarily, especially if it means that the answer to all our problems is just to throw more money around.
Oops, of course I meant the Mets wouldn’t be talking about Johan now, not A-Rod.
I like Freddy Coupons. Whoever thought it up is clever.
For starters Wilpon and Coupon rhyme. Maybe it should just be Freddy Coupon. Would that make you happier?
Also, the Wilpons are cheap. I’ve come over the past few months to realize that I don’t believe they care about winning, just about making a profit. Yes, they spend a lot of money on the team. But they have to. They are in New York and generate a ton of money. If they didn’t spend $100mil per year they’d be accused of tanking. What they actually do is spend just enough to get a decent team on the field to keep the fans interested and coming to games buying $6 beers.
Fred Wilpon has several times the wealth of George Steinbrenner and look at the difference in our franchise. I know almost all of us hate the Yankees, but be honest we’re all jealous. At least I am. George and now his lunatic son Hank will stop at nothing to put the best team they can on the field. They make a lot of mistakes, but they’re always trying. I don’t think you can say that about the Wilpons.
where did you find $6 beers at Shea?
that’s exactly what I wanted to know.
No, it’s just not accurate to say the Wilpons are cheap. Fact is, they’ve done a lot of spending the last few years using a “credit card” (backloaded contracts). As such, their luxury tax payroll was very close to Boston’s this year.
And of course they care about winning. They just like to do it within the Luxury Tax threshold because the Wilpon’s support the intent of it. They voted for Luxury Taxes. The Yankees didn’t. Staying under the threshold has also been the practice of Boston and the Angels. And both those teams are big market clubs. So if the Wilpons are cheap, so are those 2 teams.
Fred Wilpon has several times the wealth of George Steinbrenner and look at the difference in our franchise.
It’s irrelevant. No owner regularly dips into his own pocket to fund his team. That’s one of the biggest fallacies that I see some fans repeat over and over again. If you think Steinbrenner funds the Yankees from his own wallet then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
Sometimes owners will use their own resources, but it’s rare.
As for being jealous of the Yankees — not a bit. I dislike that team and the way they’ve made it harder for smaller market teams to compete. Their payroll is a disgrace to baseball.
The Mets try just as hard as the Yankees. They just have a much smaller budget, shaped by the Luxury Tax threshold. I can’t blame them for sticking to it. The Red Sox and Angels do the same thing.
Also, I doubt the Wilpons will put such a limit on Santana’s contract IF the Twins and Mets agree to a trade.
If they do, I’ll say I’m wrong, change my tune, and chime in with the rest of you who call him “Freddie Coupon.”
I predict there is no way the Wilpons will be a stumbling block to the Mets getting Santana. If it doesn’t work out, it will be because the Mets and Twins can’t make a deal in the first place.
VCARVER EVERYBODY!!!
Great post…
I don’t usually support the VC but . . . ehh bad pun.
I agree, good post!
well, the 4,50 Hdogs/4.50 waters anf 7.25Beers are actually from us fanatics paying for the stadium . The wilpons only have it because we dont learn, and they are now just respending our money from 14 parking and 35 tickets among other great services in the sheaflushbowl.
so santana is ours. the only thing they have done without fan input is the drastically bad prior trades, and actually offer lesser services to balance the increase of the tickets/concessions/parking.
everything else is fan driven.
7-train,
A business owner trying to make a profit? Well, I’ll be damned
Couple things:
Steinbrenner makes money with the Yanks.
VC, well thought out points as always. But I am in disagreement with you. Maybe I am wrong about them being cheap and they just aren’t good talent evaluators.
pochemunyet, are you one of those goofs who says KEW-pahns? Actually that would still rhyme. Maybe you don’t speak English.
You are most definitely wrong about them being cheap. I’m not one to gush over VC’s posts but he’s absolutely right. This Freddie Coupon crap is dopey. It sounds lame and it doesn’t make a lick of sense.
Anybody remember when everybody was coming up with ways to pay A-Rod if he left the Yanks? The biggest thing I saw then, I havent seen yet, to pay Santana. What happened to the 20 mill from the naming rights? You know, the one we were going to use to subsidize A-Rod’s contract. Shouldnt we just use that for Santana instead? So it,s not like the money isn’t there to sign him. In fact, it wouldn’t suprise me that that money is the real reason Santana says he wants to come here, knowing that they can use that money to pay him what he wants.
My bad, someone mentions it way, way down below.
if the mets trade for santana and keep reyes wright beltran maine and perez…. it is a good-great trade…. if they keep all of those and either gomez or fernandez it is a great-excellent trade… id be slightly sour tho if they had to give up maine or perez because we need those arms as well… id prefer to give up both gomez and fernandez…. but if it just turns out that they keep their core and maine perez, and gomez or fernandez… it would be an amazing trade
who is this fernandez you speak of? I would love to meet him.
he is making up a new name for F Mart…he;d better not be included in the santana deal..I’d deal pelphrey or ollie before him.
this dude will be big time in 2 yrs. keep F Mart and shop the Ol-Yipper
You named three times they messed up, and two are very valid in Vladdy and Kazmir (which was not a money thing tho).
HOWEVER: Pedro they gave the extra year that no other team would, Beltran they overpaid to keep him from Yanks (his desired destination), Castillo got the extra year, Humber got the signing bonus that scared other teams off, Wagner was overpaid to come to NY, Schowenweis was overpaid by a lot (to a fault), Glavine was overpaid to prey him out of his hometown… there’s more but I don’t feel like looking them up.
vlad was a money thing. plain and simple.
how does boston opperate near where we do. there payroll was 160 million and ours was 115? how is that even close????
1) I said Vladdy was money, no one ever said it wasn’t. Kazmir was not money, however.
2) Boston operates at the same level as the Mets the franchise is valued approximately the same by Forbes, and they recently added 2,000 seats and make $155 million in gate, while the Mets don’t even make $100 million from Shea tickets. Average ticket price at Fenway is more than double that of Shea, and the capacity is larger as well. Their net revenue is $17 million more than the Mets. The Mets launched SNY recently, but the Red Sox have had an 80% share in NESN for longer time, creating more revenue. The Sox also earn $7 million more than the Mets in brand management.
So while the Mets play in a larger market, the Red Sox are able to capitalize on their market better by being the only team in the area, whereas the Mets contend with the one team that earns more than the Mets or Red Sox, and have twice the market share.
The Mets spend more than any other team though, so stop complaining please.
It’s not the money, it’s the length of the contract.
I would bet that the Wilpons would be more comfortable with a 5 year deal at $150M vs. a 7 year deal at $140M.
of course they would…Omar has also said that they would be comfortable going up there dollar wise, but not so much length. They used that approach with Zito last year as well
Giving more money for less years is a STUPID financial decision. The present value of a 5yr, $150m contract is $113m. The present value of a 7yr, $150m contract is $104m. That’s a difference of $9m of today’s dollars. Doing what you suggest (a 7yr, $140m), which you say is something the Mets would favor LESS than a 5yr, $150m is, well crazy. The present value of the 7yr, $140m contract is $97m, or $16.4m less than the 5yr, $150m contract.
If Johan wants his 7 years, I would prefer the Mets to give him the $140m deal and be done with it and not waste money just to have him off the books earlier.
I agree.
Pay more up front or less long term? Hay-low. That’s an easy one. Just THINK of it being 140M for 5 and the last 2 years are free.
You guys aren’t factoring in the ability and the price to insure that contract. With megadeals like this insurance is extremely important, especially when the contract involves a Pitcher.
whatever, get santana.
Insurance for a 7 year contract of that amounts could cost 7 digits. Now why would you want to pay 35 million a year for a 25 million a year contract? And I thought it would be needless to say, but every team interested in Santana has already stated they have absolutely no interest in paying Santana $25 million a year.
By 7 digits you either mean 1 Million+, or are mistaking this for seven 0’s, which is 10^7 - in the tens of Millions +?
If the former, what is the big deal about 1 million of ins when you pay 140 for the entire contract?
Even if it is 10 million ins, that is <10% of the entire deal…big whoop!
Keep FMart and get that 10million insurance done!
You misunderstand… 10 million annually. As in 10 million ever year of the contract.
$10,000,000 has 8 digits. (just sayin’…)
Do you have actual knowledge that a $25 million per year contract can cost >$10 million to insure, or are you guessing. Even in these inflated times, that sounds a bit high.
pifman, you are soooooooo not using logic. why would a team opt to ensure a player at that high cost? the idea of insurance is to pay a risk adjusted price for the effect of an unlikely event. to help, think about your car insurance payments.
For a 5 year 20 million a year contract it costs 3 million to insure a year for a pitcher at Santana’s age. So I believe it is safe to say if you increase the money be 5 million annually and the years to 7 it will increase more than double. And even if it is double, 6 million a year for insurance? That is a bit ridiculous. And yeah I guess I just hit 7 instead of 8 my bad.
It amazes me how anybody can come up with “silly” idea that the Wilpons are cheap. I understand your frustrations, with the Zitos, Guerreros Arods and all of that mindless chatter. But did they not spend 46 million for Wagner? Did they not pay Beltran 100 million? I’m just don’t understand how irrational we met fans can be. You just can’t break open the piggybank or deplete your farm system whenever you hear the availability of a prominent player. Its whats best for the organization, consequently, will be best for the fans. Although few of the trades made by Minaya seem somewhat baffling, I am certainly grateful for having this type of ownership and extremely relieved that we are not behind it.
correct — for every ARod there is Glavine, Pedro, Beltran ,etc and other teams cannot say that except the Yankees, and they suck.
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=11215059&postID=2832155772114793552
WOW…doesn’t this make mets fans feel good.
Don’t get my hopes up like this man….lol.
Is this being reported in this way anywhere else? Espn? Fox? Minn papers? Ny Papers? SNY? anywhere?
What makes Matt post this? Just hearing rumors from Mr. Met?
5 years + 2 option years … no problem. Hopefully Fernando Martinez is among the untouchable’s.
How can the Mets not compromise on years and dollars for the best pitcher in the game?!!! Rules were meant to be broken ( or at least bent)
This has been my silent dream - that somehow he would want to come to the Mets - now Matt has written this piece. Please don’t jinx a possible very fortunate turn for Mets fans.
I don’ think five or six prospects could possibly mean our five or six most ML ready guys because we can’t operate without any reserve guys in the minors. I’m thinking it could be one of each of these sets if it got done (Mulvey/Humber/Pelfrey) (FMart/Gomez) (Smith/Rustich/Carr) (Carp/Evans/?) plus another lower level but good- not top but good- quality possible sleeper type.
That would be very generous for the Twins and not cripple us in the process. It’s still not the huge haul speculated about in the press. Then again it’s probably a lot more than most pitchers have brought back in similar circumstances. (if there is a similar to Santana)
We have to spend the money. All those others teams would if they got the chance, no matter what that they say in the papers.
Put it this way … if the Mets don’t get him, and we hear later that it was because the the Mets wouldn’t pay him the extra year or two …….. then ……… I give up.
Omar needs to put pressure on the Twins and make a solid offer. There is no reason why the Twins would turn down: Gomez, Heilman, Pelfrey (or Mulvey AND Humber) and Ryan Church. We need to get his guy. People like Santana do not come around that often, and he is worth every penny.
Lets package those prospects offer him a min of 6 years and get it done. Starting to think World Series…Ya Gotta Believe…Lets Go Mets!
wow, this is def. great news …. i figured the only chance we had with a somewhat lesser package would have been if he specifically wanted to be a met
WHAT DID I TELL EVERYBODY THE OTHER DAY? SANTANA WILL BE A MET. IT’S JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE IT BECOMES OFFICIAL. TRUST ME ;O)
Oh, O.K., thanks. None of us were sure that Santana was going to be a Met, but now that you’ve told us he will, well, I sure feel better about things.
Hes both a real Mets fan and a prophet…hail Metsf-in-nostrodamous
Matt where are you getting this from? I know he’s interested in the Mets and the NL, but I’ve never heard he’d really force the issue using his no-trade clause.
Please tell us you’ve heard something new from some solid sources to put this up. This roller coaster, combined with the general glutttony of this time of year, is not so easy on the stomach.
The money isn’t the issue, it’s the length of contract. Santana’s salary doesn’t even raise the total from last year because the Mets took Glavine, Mota, Green, and LoDuca off the books.
My guess is that Santana gets a 5 year extension and a raise this year. I also think the Mets will cap the deal at 4 players because they recognize that they are bidding against themselves. If Santana only wants to pitch in the NL, the only other team is the Dodgers and he’d have to want the West Coast.
Once the Yankees resigned Pettitte, their “need” for a pitcher dropped. This gives them a vet and allows them to develop their younger players like Hughes and Chamberlain. The Red Sox just want to keep Santana away from the Yankess. Getting him out of the AL is better than signing him because they already have the #2 payroll and they’ve max’d out their revenue (in the short run).
The biggest “threat” is that the Yankees over hyped their guys and realize that none are better than a #4 starter. It’s happend before.
I hope that you’re right about the competition from the Yankies and the R Sox. If you are then my speculative offer was way too generous!
If the Yankees and the Red Sox are serious that they have both made a “best and final” offer for Santana, they probably both prefer that he end up in the NL (and it looks like its the Mets in that case). Sure, the Yankees would have to conceed the back pages for a few days, but that’s better than having to face Santana 5 times/year.
Your payroll only takes into account players off the team but Beltran, Delgado, Hernandez, Wright and Reyes all get increases in their salary totaling over 15 million dollars. They also added Schneider and Church which is another 5 million dollars.
Plus Heilman, OP, Chavez, are all arbitration-eligible and that will be another few million dollars.
That’s over 20 million dollars in additional salary for ‘07.
when you can have the best pitcher in baseball, you don’t worry about the money, especially if you are a HUGE market team that owns its own network and is building a half a billion dollar stadium. this shouldn’t be a payroll thing and it shouldn’t be a length of contract thing. we are talking about johan freaking santana - ENTERING HIS PRIME!
I’m not saying that money is or isn’t an issue. I’m just pointing out that when people look at differences at payroll from year to year, they need to look at both sides of the ledger not just the players who aren’t on the roster anymore but also at new additions and those who have raises in their contracts.
I guess it’s possible theoretically (none of my business) that Mr. Matthew Cerrone might own a tiny crum of that network now, if he is in partnership with them.
yea but delgado is largely subsidized this year and doesnt pedro’s salary go down? (i could be wrong about that) does the payroll include the million we owe to bonilla till 2020
You are right about Pedro. His salary goes down by about 3 million I think (from 14 mil to 11, if I remember).
The big increases are Beltran’s (6.5 mil), Wright (4 mil), and Hernandez (2 mil).
I think OP’s arb number is going to be fairly large considering his performance last year and it being his 6th service year.
Heilman or OP, Church, Gomez and Pelfrey or Humber (not both). Twins would be getting a major league ready picther and postition player while grooming two triple a players. Sounds good to me especially knowing that the list of suitors are dwindling.
This is the first time, to my knowledge, that any public forum has suggested that it matters where Johan wants to play. Everyone’s been saying that the Twins hold all the cards. But sudddenly it looks as if they can’t get their desired package from the Sox or the Hanks. What a surprise.
A few of us have been harping on this issue from the beginning. Any deal for Santana will have to get past Johan. He holds most of the cards. To be successful, a team will not only have to please the Twins’ front office, but also have to (a) be a place Johan wants to play, and (b) pony up the cash. There are VERY few teams that meet all the criteria.
Well if you think about I bet the Twins want to trade him to the Mets also, they would much rather keep him out of the AL
money is the least of the mets concerns… pay the man and the money will flow into shea!
This is the part I love:
“…i still do not have my hopes up, but i do have hope and i’m excited about that…”
It sure sounds like you have your hopes up and now you have mine higher than they were 5 minutes ago.
In other words, I’m mortifiably stoked of the slim possibility of the Mets improving their suspect rotation with the best pitcher in the other league, even if we have to break the bank and the farm system both.
I’ll be frank here.
I’d love to have Johan Santana.
He’s a great pitcher, could be at his prime, has electric stuff. I’d love to sign him to a 7 year deal. That’d be just awesome. But if the price is too high, and Bedard’s is lower by any standard, I’d take Bedard.
Sure, Johan has a better track record, and some electric stuff. But those who have seen Erik Bedard pitch will all agree wtih me. Erik Bedard could be the most unhittable pitcher in the game, and I’d sure love to get him at the price that the Phils are offering, or the Mariners are. (Adam Jones and Brandon Morrow, or Shane Victorino and Kyle Kendrick.). If it means parting witih Fernando Martinez, Aaron Heilman and Mike Pelfrey or Kevin Mulvey, then that’s fine.
If MacPhail is totally unwillling to trade Bedard, then that’s fine. He won’t be a Phillie next year. Go out and get Santana for Martinez/Gomez, Heilman, Pelfrey and Humber/Mulvey and even add Gotay to the deal. Keep at least 3 starters (Humber/Mulvey, Guerra, Niese), all of our young relievers (Sanchez, Smith Kunz), one of our young, high value outfielders (Gomez/Martinez), nd the guys that aren’t so close to the MLB (Vernooij, Duda, Pena).
Why in the world would Bedard’s price be lower?
He’s under control longer, therefore cheaper, therefore more desirable, therefore there will be more teams bidding for him.
Bedard is actually harder to get, and basically you can’t hold off on Santana for the slim possibility that with our prospects we could get Bedard (which we cant)……
The O’s wanted just LaRoche and Broxton.
Granted, they are both young and great, but so is Lester, Ellsbury and Kalish and Masterson.
Broxton (A-) and LaRoche (A-) could be matched by Martinez (B+/A-), Heilman (B+), and Pelfrey (B+), and considering the Dodgers aren’t offering that, and the O’s desperately need bullpen help…
So that could be lower than Santana’s price.
That package is not a match with Broxton and LaRoche, not to mention that if LA did offer that, and it was what it takes to get him, why isnt he a Dodger?
They didn’t offer him. Get your facts right.
MacPhail said he would accept that package, in fact I decided to look that up on the site. It was a lie that the Dodgers had made any offer of that type.
In fact, it would make no sense whatsoever, even with Andruw Jones.
According to the LA Times, Dodgers GM Ned Colletti told reporters that he does not have any interest in trading 23-year-old RHP Jonathan Broxton, who is considered the team’s best young pitcher.
In 165 relief apparances during his three-year career, Broxton has a 2.98 ERA while striking out 218 batters throughg 172 innings.
Broxton will earn the […]
I’ve said this a few times on this site and no one seems to want to hear it.
BEDARD HAS INJURY ISSUES. HE HAS ONLY STARTED A FULL SEASON ONCE IN FOUR YEARS. YES, HE’S GOOD, BUT YOU DON’T TRADE THE FARM FOR SOMEONE THAT HAS A TRACK RECORD OF HAVING TROUBLE TAKING THE MOUND EVERY FIFTH DAY.
He started just as many times as OP last year.
Congrats, he didn’t pitch two full years out of the minors. Woohoo!
Neither did Haren, neither did Santana.
I don’t know what you expect from Bedard, but I expect 27-34 amazing starts this year…
I almost think the Mets have a better chance to get Johan than Bedard because 1) Angelos can be impossible to deal with and 2) Bedard won’t be a free agent until after the 2009 season, so the Orioles, unlike the Twins, don’t need to worry about him walking away at the end of 2008.
Not saying this is necessarily true, but the thing is, Bedard’s value could have peaked. He could get injured (he’s already had TJ surgery, strained oblique from last year), he could just have an average season (it’s not like he’s had a very big career as an ace), and many other things can occur to diminish his value. Also, by keeping the same team they’re only keeping a losing team. Bedard hasn’t exactly been their key to success.
The Orioles GM is Andy MacPhail, by the way. He is in charge of all the trade operations.
And of course all I am suggesting is a hypothetical.
I know who the Orioles GM is but Angelos is the owner. And he’s been known to butt into everything and slow up or derail everything. Reportedly he’s even had disagreements with MacPhail.
He could even be the one holding up the Tejada deal.
Well, it might also be possible that Angelos has a card up his ownersleeve…
and pulls off a deal in favor of another team, just to have a toy-pool of GMs in the next yr?
ie, Jim Duquette with the Benson/Maine debacle.
If WhoaMar is indeed next on his holiday target list, maybe Tejada could be Mets bound for someone like Delgado!
Pedro
Santana
Maine
O Perez
Heilman
?
I’m down
TRADE REYES FOR HIM NOW
Reyes is a big question mark after last year, let’s not kid ourselves
Carlos Gomez is a perfectly capable leadoff hitter
Heck, let’s take Tejada & his contract off the O’s hands
and then we’d be looking at
Gomez/Chavez RF
Beltran/Chavez CF
Wright 3B
Tejada SS
Alou/Church LF
Delgado 1B
Castro/Schneider C
Castillo/Gotay 2B
P
when Reyes is ‘on’ we win, when he’s ‘off’ we lose
do we really believe we’re better off that way than having the additional HQ starter?
Was David Wright a big question mark after 2006?
He ended that season pretty terribly as well. In fact, he began 2007 the same way. But after 3-4 bad months, no one wanted to trade him. At least the sane people.
You overreact because the entire team collapsed. You would have said the same f something like that occurred when David Wright slumped.
and the idea of having Gomez or Chavez lead off, and having a guy who could hit 20 HR and barely touched .300 hitting fourth.
Be careful … some people will take your ‘trade Reyes’ sentiment very personally. Watch your back. :)
you answered your own question. When reyes is on we win when he is off we lose. So that means he is integral to the success of the team. So you have to figure out when he is off how to win without him. When he is on you are good to go.
“when Reyes is ‘on’ we win, when he’s ‘off’ we lose”
Well thats because are starters couldn’t go after the 6th inning. The object of a winning team is get away from having one player make or break the game.
Carlos Gomez is a perfectly capable leadoff hitter
Gomez is nowhere close to being a major league hitter right now. Just becasue he’s fast doesn’t make him a leadoff hitter.
And why in the world would you trade Reyes over Gomez? Fickle, fickle fans we are.
“Fickle, fickle fans we are.”
No, not you, nor I, but he.
nicely, sir!
not being fickle - being realistic
this team’s first and foremost need is a front line starter
can we really rely on Pedro for the next few years?
Santana would give us an anchor
and I’d rather keep the outfield prospects especially after the Milledge trade
keep our future, and upgrade our present
Reyes is a question mark
Santana is what we need - now
when Wright slumped he NEVER sulked around and ALWAYS ran out grounders and played with his head up..
The difference is Reyes slumped and had his head up his butt..
Reyes is a question mark. Wow.
You don’t trade Reyes for a pitcher… doesn’t matter who the pitcher is.
Besides the fact that the Twins asked the Mets about a number of players and the Mets didn’t say no about any of them but have said no about Reyes [that implies the deal can be done without Reyes involved]. Reyes is not a question mark, if anything the Santana trade is more likely to backfire on us because pitchers are the most prone to injury. You really need to stop being impatient, the deal can get done without Reyes. You really want to trade Reyes so you can officially say you have Santana 2 weeks earlier? And why would Church be a backup to Alou? He was acquired to play RF, not to be a backup. Chavez will backup Alou and a right handed OF will back up Church [Gomez] assuming none of those players are involved in a trade.
hahahaha…your username is asking mets fan to stop being negative but then your being negative about reyes hahahahah…i get it…now hats a funny joke…wait…it is a joke, right?
I would ask mets fans to stop being negative about Heilman being a starter, about Heath Bell’s ability (oops, too late), about Lastings (too late again),
and mostly to stop booing our own players when they are in a slump
and I do think we need to trade Reyes for Santana and keep our outfield prospects
let him swing for the fences all he wants at the Metrodome…
is that being negative?
I don’t think wanting Santana and our outfield prospects is negative
I will say that this team is up against it in 2008 if we have no front like starter
This team will be up against it in 2008 and beyond if we trade Reyes.
If Miguel Cabrera, perhaps the second best hitter in baseball behind Pujols, did not net A SINGLE, MLB READY POSITION PLAYER… why the heck should a pitcher fetch one? Especially a pitcher that needs to be signed to a mammoth contract.
Slightly off topic but the guy mentioned Bell and I actually went to look it up his Ml experiences with us o over the time he was here. It was awful. He K’d about a guy per inning but a WHIP above 1.6 and guys batted near .300 against him and he had an era over 5 in each season. He gave up hr’s at a ridiculous rate.
Now we got nothing back for him but he was not a ML pitcher with us. There was no reason to think he would be good and we dumped him.
I do not fault Omar for the kid getting it last year and having a good yr. Great for Bell but not a bad trade. He was worthless as a met.
kevin towers must read the hardball times…
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/daily-graphing-heath-bell/
squad….that is a great analysis. Turned out just right. I am guessing that his BABIPnumbers as a met would have continued to be bizarrely out of whach and only a change of scenery would have made those hits turn into outs. Great job on finding and posting that though. That is seriously good work by that guy and is the stuff you hope the grunt guys assisting the GM are doing.
Statistical analysis aside, I always loved Bell. I was at an interleague game where he came in to face Jeter with the bases loaded and went right after him, striking him out. I thought the kid had huge ones, which is what you want out of the pen.
He had a good fastball and a decent slider. I remember he was working on a split as well. He just seemed like a really hard worker, but not just some overachiever either. I always liked his stuff and makeup and figured he would do well if some team ever just said “ok dude, you have a spot in the pen, go get ‘em” rather than shuttling him back and forth between AAA.
Ah, but I’m not a scout/GM, and I’m not infallible. I liked Victor Diaz a lot as a hitter when he first came up. Always thought the Mini-Manny stuff was a tad overboard, but I liked his approach. Another guy I thought the Mets mishandled.
exactly
Bell had cohones and was never given a true chance
it’s okay to be negative if it means you’re not crazy, right?
By your logic, if we trade Reyes, he will never produce for us, therefore being always off….meaning we lose every game???
Great, now you’ve got my hopes up just enough to be disappointed when he goes to the Sox. As long as he stays in the AL I guess…
Hole . . .
Lee . . .
Crap!
This is the scenario I was hoping for. Now it’s really just us and dollars. If we can keep prospects to not “emptying the farm” but say Gomez, Gotay, Humber, Mulvey and someone else that would be great. I’d like to keep Pelfrey and F-Mart, aside from that . . . maybe add Church?
Wow . . .
Remember though, that the Redsox getting Santana was all but done and now it looks bleak for them, so until Johan is in front of the press wearing that snow white Mets jersey I wont be happy. I am not holding my breath.
OK so today Santana is looking good.
Tomorrow it will look bleak.
Tuesday it will look like the Red Sox have him wrapped up.
A week from Wednesday the Yankees will be the front runner.
January will see the Dodgers making a play.
March the Mets will have the inside track.
Once we get Santana I bet the under on 2 starts before the first complaint that “Santana was a waste of money and we gave up too much for the bum” to start.
haha i could see it now…mulvey pitches a slid 6 innings 3 runs in his first start for minnesota, and everyone will be calling kazmir 2..even though it wouldnt make any sense but everyone likes to call everything KAZMIR TWO. ITS FUN2
santana is no victor zambrano
It’s December and its too cold to play catch and I miss baseball so keeping warm inside the rumor mill helps. But I agree with those here who wonder if some of the best trades/moves are the ones you don’t make. Betting the farm on Johan S. intrigues but what if `can’t miss’ does? I ‘m afraid to say I’m old enought to have seen a few famous missteps along this path: before Scott K. was lost to the Bay, Mets gave up on youth to secure surethings, notably Amos Otis and Nolan Ryan. And it occurs to me that 20 years ago Twins and Mets did a five for one that sort of turned out to be a one-and-a-half-year `rental.’
well this one will be signed for a minimum of 5 more yrs so that is not happening.
Viola was good for us that first year also. He did win 20 games as a met in his full season.
That trade could have been a success if he stayed and stayed healthy (both things he did not do)
I would definitely trade a group of our prospects for an ace.
But we have to keep at least one of the outfielders and at least 1 of the pitchers we prefer (hopefully Pelfrey)
I’ve always wondered how things would be different if they kept Nolan Ryan. How many more rings NY might have, and we wouldn’t still be looking for a no-hitter at home. I must say that as of now, I believe trading Nolan Ryan is a much worse trade than Kazmir. But we will have to see how Kazmir pans out at the end of his career. But it will be tough for him to do better than Nolan.
Wow, just wow! I always knew the Mets were on Santana’s YES list, but I never thought they would be perhaps #1. If this is true it’s great. I’d give him 6 guaranteed years plus a 7th year as an option. Even as Santana’s stuff fades, perhaps Pedro and the Jacket can teach him a few things to extend his dominance for a few years. He should be an elite pitcher for at least 4 years or so, then it’s a matter of adjusting his stuff to the remaining 3 years. Hell, if Glavine was able to adjust and extend his career by learning new tricks surely Johan can.
If the Mets can’t get him now, I hope he starts the season with the Twins.
100% agreed. Even if the Mets give him 7 guaranteed years … it doesn’t matter. Just do it. We have not had a pitcher of this caliber in a long, longgggg time. There should be no rules that apply to signing a pitcher like this.
Give him the 7 if he insists on it.
Precisely. If he insists. You can’t let it not go down because of that.
right on w/ 6 + option. If they’ve already agreed on a player package and that’s the only thing holding it up…I’m way, way too excited about this.
Please, if he comes here, keep EVERYONE away from him. Remember how they tried to FIX Heilman? Remember how Stottlemyre thought that Doc needed a changeup after his untouchable 1985 season? If we get Santana - and that’s a big friggin if, two things - all of the “sages” of the Mets, especially the “Jacket”, let the guy do his thing and don’t screw up his magic and number two: Don’t boo the guy, no matter what happens - PLEASE! I frankly don’t know why anyone would want to come and play for the Mets with the way the fans boo him. He has been in Minnesota where they worship him and the press and fans lay off him and let him do his thing. He’d be fine here probably, but he wouldn’t be the first to let the pressure of a huge contract (and a boatload of prospects given up), the media and fans get to him - at least the first season (Beltran and Piazza come to mind). Needless to say, I hope we get him and everyone treats him well and makes sure he feels the comfort he needs to succeed for us.
I didn’t mean the way the fans boo him. I meant the way the Met fans often boo their own players.
Well I thought and hoped that was the case but I never truly, deep down believed that Santana would force a Mets trade. It does make sense if you think about it. Pitcher park, NL, NY, copious contract, what more could you ask for? Plus reuniting with Castillo, and I think it is safe to say he and Reyes will become friends along with Castillo. Besides, Boston would be horrible for Santana. Yeah it is a big stage and big money and all. But think what right handed power hitters will do to him in Fenway. Flyouts become doubles or HRs on a very consistent basis. And most strikeout pitchers can get a fair amount of fly balls. And if he faces A-rod in fenway… well I think there is enough said there. It does make sense the Mets are his #1 choice if you really think about it and what his other options would be, I just hope it is enough for us to get him. And I really hope we can keep Fernando Martinez, not just Reyes. I think Fmart will be huge for us.
here we go again….
They can’t even offer him a contract. Stop overreacting to everything.
Money/years should not be an issue..
Mets will be getting 20 mil a year from Citibank starting in 2009
Mets (and every other team) will be getting 30 mil a year from profit sharing on MLB.com’s website Starting in ‘08, MLB’s website which made over 900 million dollars in profit, divided the profit among the 30 ballclubs equally as each ballclub contributed 5 million to start up the website…
( I used to work there, trust me I know)
thats 50 mil a year for the Mets ( before they make dime on the field)
this doesnt include the money they get for SNY
What the Mets SHOULD DO..is relay messages through Castillo to Santana and his agent…Mets will be prepared to pay 150 million for 5 years…thats 30 mil a year…Let Santana tell the Twins that he will ONLY accept a trade to the Mets…Now since the market is limited to one team…The Mets can now lower the price of prospects….Give em Church, Carp, Heilmann, Pelfrey, Gotay, and Humber …6 players for 1…1 CF…1 1B…12B…2 SP..1 RP…
meanwhile we keep our core players…plus Guerra..Mulvey…Gomez and Martinez and Anderson Hernandez who I still think will shine here in a couple of years…
Using that logic the Twins will simply not trade him.
So you think the Twins would rather lose him for nothing?
so basically..lose him for nothing…
now way they even sniff at the tigers / indians this year..
Alou, Delgado, Pedo come off the books in 09…thats 40 plus million off the books..
Although I wouldnt mind Keeping all 3 for less money …I think Pedro in the bullpen would be good for him and the team…I can see him as a stopper…
Gomez, Heilman, Pelfrey, and Mulvey/Humber for Santana, 7 years $126 Million.
Sign Colon or Hernandez to a 1 or 2 year deal. Sign Garcia to a 2 year deal as well.
Sign Kevin Mench to a 2 year deal if he doesn’t find a starting job.
In 2009 just sign Adam Dunn or Mark Teixeira to a monster 6 year, $90 Milllion.
Then sign either Dan Wheeler, Francisco Rodriguez, Joe Nathan, Brad Lidge or Brian Fuentes.
Lastly, sign either Rocco Baldelli, Jason Michaels or Raul Ibanez to play left feld. If you sign Dunn and plant him in left then ign Ben Broussard to a 2-3 year deal.
sounds easy enough
Can you be our general manager, please??
Again people are only looking at one side of the ledger.
Those revenues are great but you forgot to mention that the Wilpons are PAYING to build CitiField. A lot of that Revenue will go to the construction costs.
600 mil for te stadium and 400 mil from citi over 20 years…the other 200 mil is nothing when you spread it out considering this team profits ab 70 mil per year and i dont even think that includes the network and even if it does its 70 mil per year
You make a fair point. The costs for Citifield are being paid by the Wilpons, however, I’m sure are spread out over a period of years through financing. Do you have any idea what those annual outlays might be?
There are also huge cashflows associated with this new privately funded facility, from parking, concessions, branding , licensing, tickets, media revenues, etc., and each of these will be increased by multiples if the Mets can field a winning team. The winning team right now lacks a true “ace” starter. We need that ace no matter what and they ain’t minting new ace pitchers very often. Weigh those additional cashflows against the six year/ $20 M per contract we might give Santana. I’m sure the Mets would come out ahead by a wide margin.
I’m serious by the way, do you know what their annual costs are?
I have no idea what their costs are. I only know that there are two sides to any business - Revenue and Cost and am just pointing out that one cannot look at revenue alone and assume it can be 100% allocated to a single cost (i.e. player salaries).
Is that a joke? You do realize that the stadium is FULLY FUNDED with TAX FREE bonds that provide a low cost loan to the Wilpons?
thank you.. not only that but they dont have to lay out much if anything for the first 5 years.
So the loan isn’t a cost?
I’m sure the Wilpons will do just fine. I’m just trying to point out that the stadium and SNY, for that matter, does have significant costs associated with them. They are not magical entities that provide revenue without any costs.
So when you see revenue numbers and refer to them, just realize that it’s revenue… not profit.
That’s tampering and the Twins would probably just go the season. PLus I’d rather trade one of gomez or MArtinez instead of Church right now because Church has proven something.
Are you not realizing the fact that only a percentage of income goes to paying players salaries? The rest of the stadium staff has to make money, including the owner who takes over 15%. Then keeping the stadium “clean” and “working”. All that money is going towards Citifield. A couple hundred million is coming from the Mets themselves, so they need that money. I’m not saying they don’t have the money to pay Santana. I am saying there is no reason whatsoever to pay the man $30 million a year. Give him 5 years 126 million with an option year for the 6th at the same $21 million annually and I am sure he would be perfectly happy. I think we can all agree A-rod isn’t worth $30 million even if some of you wanted to pay him that you know it wouldn’t be worth it. So if an everyday player isn’t, why would Santana be? Give him 20+, not 30.
Anderson Hernandez will be released in ST. He cant hit his own weight, even in AAA and defensive second basemen who cant hit are a dime a dozen.
I would still love him on the team, but he is only one guy. After all, even if he wins 25 games, we still need 70+ other wins (without him) to get into postseason.
You need depth, not just superstars. After all, how many WS titles the Twins win with Johan? Let’s made good baseball decisions, not just good “back page” decisions.
i would trade the farm for him with ollie. basically all short of reyes,wright
What do u think of my lil plan?
you mean your idea to have santanas BFF castillo text secret met messages to santana and his agent?
why not just make up a fake profile and post coded messages on santana’s my space page? Or maybe they can “run into” each other at a spice girls concert?
Santana’s contract will pay for its self in season ticket sales and game day ticket sale. NY fans pack the house for good pitching. It happened with Doc, and Pedro. I remember reading somewhere that Pedro’s contract paid for its self after the first season.
Even when Dontrelle comes into NY, the ticket sales increase.
Now, I don’t know why Matt is getting our hopes up again. Its a vicious roller coaster, but as long as it good news, then keep it coming Matt.
If he is that set on becoming a Met, then he can come to us via free agency. If I were Omar, and in contact with his agent, I try to give him every assurance that he will be paid very very well. If the Mets and the Twins can’t get anything done, Johan can veto a trade and wait to FA because he knows he will get the offer he wants, in the situation he wants to be in.
I just want to keep F-Mart.
please omar/mets management, get this done. this automatically makes us the favorites in the NL id have to assume.
Without a doubt they’re favorites.
Also makes them favorites in a short series.
In a long series too.
Heck having the best pitcher in baseball tends to give you an advantage.
If this is the case, then the Twins must meet the Mets demands.
No Martienz, no Guerra, no Maine, no Perez, and no Reyes.
Enjoy a large package of good prospects (and even through in Church) and give Santana what he wants.
That’s ridiculous…why wouldn’t they just try to win with him then, and take the draft picks?
i mean not including guerra if they want him is rediculous…how often do these guys pan out…i mean maybe he will but cmon…gaby hernandez and petit havent dont a lot of anythin yet…i mean i know theyre still young but it doesnt seem to be that theyre on theyre way to being great pitchers…i would even throw in fmart if i had to…i mean id rather not but cmon for santana…if you can get this guy while keeping your core how could you not do it…wright and reyes could be mets for the next 15 years plus other guys are bound to come around…the only thing that bothers me is that theyres gonna be no one to really bring up from the minors when someone gets hurt besides some 36 yo bums that they have yet to sign…but still gotta make the deal…they should try and package eddie kunz while he has some value too…that guy has shown me nothing
Wait…reading this it seems as if the Twins and Mets have agreed to at least a loose framework for a deal. Is that correct? I haven’t seen that written or talked about anywhere.
If I’m Omar, I’m going to think about the long term, not just the short.
I’d sign Colon to a 1 year deal
Then sign Garcia to a 2 year deal.
Then sign Mench to a 2 year deal.
Then I’d trade Gomez, Heilman, Pelfrey, Humber and Gotay to the Twins. I’d trade anything less as well. Sign Santana to a 7 year, $126 Million contract.
The rotation:
Santana
Martinez
Maine
Perez
Colon.
In mid-season, if anyone gets injured, plug in Garcia. If he’s successful, let him replace Colon, who you can trade for whatever you can get for him.
Going into 2009, we’ll need a closer, first baseman and left fielder.
Sign Dan Wheeler, Joe Nathan, Francisco Rodriguez or Brian Fuentes to close.
Sign Adam Dunn or Mark Teixeira to a monster, 6 year deal worth $95 Million.
If you sign Dunn, either sign a left fielder or a first baseman, like Ben Broussard or Rocco Baldelli. If you sign Texeira, get Baldelli.
It would be smart to obtain Baldelli at the exact day that Alou gets injured via trade, but I’m not sure what the cost would be. He’s their sole rightfielder now, but they may be able to start Ruggiano, Joel Guzman, or even DH those guys and start Gomes in right.
Ok I let you type this out once in this thread w/out commenting but a 2nd time, I can’t refrain.
First off, they aren’t signing Colon and Garcia. Garcia isn’t going to sign somewhere that doesn’t have an opening for him. Relying on whoever’s hurt isn’t going to cut it for him.
Of the 4 guys you suggest signing to close- only 1 is a legit closer. The others blow. Nathan is a stud but he may end up staying wherever he soon gets traded to.
Dunn wouldn’t come to NY and Teixiera may stay in Atlanta. I can’t picture either on the Mets.
It would be stupid to sign Mench for 2 years. 1 is enough.
Baldelli isn’t even worth a low grade prospect at this point. This team has had enough injury problems. We don’t need more.
So you going to sign Neshek to the be the lefty specialist? haha
wow, where to start?
First, the twins would not make that trade.
Second, the mets wont sign garcia AND colon.
Third, you dont have a bench player to play 2b, ss, or 3b
Fourth, Roco Baldelli is the mark prior of pitchers
Lastly, Mark texiera will never sign a deal for 6 years and 95 million. He is argubably the second best 1B in the game and if people like tori hunter are making 90 million how much do you think tex would get.
I believe that Wagner is signed through ‘09, so not sure why Nathan would want to come here before then. Unless we plan on winning 120+ games, there are only so many closing opportunities a season, and while my confidence in Wagner isn’t high, we’ve got him for the next two seasons.
Funny, not hearing any Los Mets talk. Who cares if he is Yellow,Purple, Grey, White or Black AND he will look great in a Mets away jersey on March 31 in Florida. PLUS a guarantee that there will be no losing streak greater than 4 games.
i wouldnt guarantee that…i mean this is the mets we’re talking about.
This is such a tease.
Either do it or don’t…but make a decision!!!!
If the Mets get Santana, they’ll pretty much be done for the offseason. Minaya has already said Duque is slotted into the 5th spot, and unless they land Garcia as a mid season replacement, I doubt they sign another pitcher.
I personally don’t have a beef with giving up the farm for Johan. Consider:
Reyes, Wright, and Beltran are all fairly young and will have their positions on lockdown for the next 5 years (at least). 1 or 2 of Martinez, Gomez, and Church (depending on if they have to trade 3 of those 3) will have a corner OF spot locked down as well. Castillo is here for the next 4 years. Basically, that leaves one corner OF spot (assuming we trade 2 of the 3 mentioned above), 1B, and catcher to be filled in the next few years. These could easily be filled through free agency.
In the rotation you’ll have Johan, Maine, and Perez to build around. All 3 are young enough where you can imagine them being the core of the rotation for the next 5 years. Then you will likely have one of Pelfrey, Humber, or Mulvey left over from the Johan trade to step in and take a spot. And when you think about it, the next wave of young arms should be pretty close to Shea by the time 2009 rolls around: Niese, Guerra, Vinyard, etc.
Basically, my point is that in Wright, Reyes, Maine, Perez, Johan, Beltran, and one of Gomez/Martinez/Church and one of Pelfrey/Humber/Mulvey we’ll have a team of young/in their prime players for the foreseeable future. And you have to figure in 2-3 years the next wave of prospects will be storming the bigs. I don’t really see a HUGE need for reinforcements from the minors for the next year or two.
If you’re worried about depth, Minaya can use New Orleans as a place to stash former MLBers like Corder, Tatis, and Ledee who are looking for jobs and could come up in a pinch to fill in for anyone who has a 15 day stint on the DL for the next year.
It all sounds very wonderful. And I’m a believer. Again, as I posted elsewhere, I think the names you list in the farm system for trades and development show that contrary to many posts and observers the Mets farm system is not all that bad, especially considering most other clubs.
Best incite I have hear on this subject the whole off season, well done Squad. I hope this all works out
a question for the forum
i’m making a reasonable assumption for the sake of the argument.
If I’m Minny i insist on Gomez and Fmart as well as Pelfrey/Mulvey and Heilman.
Not one of those guys equals Hughes or Lester/Ellsbury in next years production. so the Mets need to offer quantity since their quality is less. Maybe Fmart is the real deal but he is far from ready.
so i ask you. Is Santana worth ALL five as well as 140-150 million over 6-7 years.?
That’s what it will take.
Par of me says yes and part of me says a big no.
I tell Minnesota they have a choice:
Either Pelfrey and Mulvey with one of Martinez/Gomez/Church or 2 of Martinez/Gomez/Church and one of Pelfrey/Mulvey but not 2 from each group.
And yes, it is worth it, because the feeling that I get is that the system is pretty well stocked at the bottom end, so in 2-3 years, we should be looking at some good prospects at the high end again. Take a look at our MLB roster, the core of the team is pretty young and locked up for the next 4 years at least. We wouldn’t need anyone to come up and fill a hole in at least a year or two.
Matt, I know you are just reporting what you have heard - and from some hard work at that - but what are you doing to me here?!!! What a friggin tease!!! But, if it’s true, we pretty much heard it from you first. The questions are many, so who knows. I do find it a little hard to believe that the Mets is where he wants to be, just because it sounds too good to be true. If he is totally insistent, then he WILL be a Met either now or eventually of course, since only HE controls his fate (except if the Mets didn’t want him under any circumstances, which is preposterous barring injury).
If it is a matter of money and years and some saving of face, in terms of getting a contract at least as good as ZIto, the solution might be a 6 year 22 mil per year contract with options for another 1 or 2 years that vest in under certain circumstances with a buyout, if they don’t. Let’s say 6 years at 150 million, with another 25 mil a year kicking in based on performance and health/innings, etc. If those parameters aren’t met, maybe the team would then have the option to either pay him a certain sum to keep him anyway or maybe 10 million per year of options not excercised as a buyout. That way, the Mets have committed more money than the Zito contract. Maybe they don’t have to go so high in terms of salary, but something like this could be possible. I DO have a feeling that the compromise will be 6 years guaranteed, if the Mets are fortunate enough to sign him - a compromise between the 7 years Zito wants and the 5 that the Mets are “saying” is their limit by policy.
Whoops, I was switching the numbers around a bit, so at 22 mil for 6 years, it’s actually 132 million guaranteed plus the buyout money - still more than Zito (his was 126 for 7 years).
I don’t like giving pitchers deals longer than 4 years, but this is a special circumstance. Johan is only 29 and in his physical prime. He should be able to give you at least 3-4 great seasons.
You’re essentially paying him for the greatness of those seasons and accepting the rest as gravy.
Matrt.. please don’t be teasing us… i can’t get too hyped up but i hope you are right
the mets need more than 1 pitcher
No they don’t. Minaya has already said Duque is in the rotation.
Omar needs to get this done with whatever means necessary….Except Wright, Reyes and Beltran…We are getting 3 of the first 35 picks in the upcoming draft, so the farm can be replenished that way….We will be solid 1-4 and then can get a Livan to eat innings at the back of the rotation…
[...] Target Ace Pitcher Very interesting post from Matt Cerrone at MetsBlog about the Mets and Twins. Buzz: Santana Wants to Be On the Mets | MetsBlog.com Through talking with a variety of people inside baseball (ranging from team officials, player [...]
i hate FATSO and the MAD DOG … but fatso made a good point … look at bedards IP every year … it seems like orioles have been VERY CAREFULL with him …. and last year was his largest workload 180 ip and he got hurt
So, is there an assumption that el Duque is slated for the ‘pen? Wishful, and only wishful thinking, looks like:
Santana
Martinez
Maine
Perez
Duque
That would be quite the rotation. But who would be the sixth man? You can bet on Martinez and Duque going down at some point for a couple/few weeks. I’ve mentioned Glendon Rusch before and believe he would be a serviceable swing man out of the ‘pen. It’s also a role he wouldn’t mind playing, as he said in an interview lately.
If Duaner is healthy, why not move Heilman into the 5 slot in the rotation?
the same people who thought Heath Bell couldn’t do it,
don’t think Heilman can start
that’s why
ok, JOSE REYES IS NOT A QUESTION MARK…he had a slump, as did every other Met not named David Wright….i seriously get so pissed when people say Reyes is a “question mark”…he is one of the 5 or 10 most talented players in the game, and hes only 24 years old…hes been compared to Joe Morgan and Jackie Robinson…PLEASE stop calling him out after he went in a slump…they should not, and will not, trade him, so stop wishing for it
Reyes had a prolonged slump and walked around moping the entire 2nd half of last year, remember?
he didn’t even try bunting to snap himself out of it
someone with his speed, never bunting?
never?
you are sure there’s nothing wrong with him?
I hope you are right, but Reyes’ last 80+ games in 2007 were a total puzzle to me, and one yet to be solved - why did that happen?
that to me is the definition of a question mark
Hey, Mr. Fred Wilpon, I got a message for you:
You’ve got to change your evil ways… baby
Before I stop loving you.
You’ve go to change… baby
And every word that I say, it’s true.
You’ve got me running and hiding
All over town.
You’ve got me sneaking and peeping
And running you down
This can’t go on…
Lord knows you got to change… baby.
When I come home… baby
My house is dark and my pots are cold
You’re hanging ëround… baby
With Jim and John and a who knows who
I’m getting tired of waiting and fooling around
I’ll find somebody, who won’t make me feel like a clown
This can’t go on…
Lord knows you got to change
are you guys kidding me…?
you guys are nothing but pathetic, every year you guys talk about the mets getting this player, and the mets will win.
mets are not going to get santana, he was with the twins and is tierd of being on a looseing team.
people say the yankees spend way too much on their players, don’t we attract the most fans in baseball, dont we have the biggest sports network in ny…?
when your walking on the streets, what kind of clothing do you see, mets or yankees..? my point exactly,
we make more money so we spend more money.
only way mets get santana is if they give up something goood, not those crappy players, twins want players that can actually help them win.
and didnt you heard that the mets offered o’s , gomez, pelfrey and someone else, and the o’s denied it before it reached the tabke…? what makes you think you have enuff for santana without reyes or wright..?
remember the kazmir deal..? where mets got victor zambrano and give up one of the best young left hander in the game…?
this will be something like that milledge trade, because they got nothing in return, and milledge is improveing, his bat speed was very close to gar sheff. < — i read on some site.
but once again chances are mets wont get santana, and stop getting your damn hopes up man, u’ll never win
your in the wekest division and still loose
in the al we have red sox, angels, “TIGERS” a’s to face.
who do you guys have to face..? nobody.
“lose” = What the Skanks haved done the last six seasons.
“loose”= Your grasp of the English language.
Typical, moronic Skankee fan. Such sheep. Baaa! Baa!
Also you may want to look into “your” vs “you’re.”
Granted, these basic concepts are taught in the third grade- which is a very advanced educational level for a Skankee fan.
This is one of many reasons Skankee and other AL fans don’t get the strategy of REAL baseball. Of course, the long ball is entertaining even to ignorant oafs like you…hence the DH being the rule in the AL.
PS: Have fun losing (note - only one “o” in that word) to the BoSox and Tigers. We’ll have fun winning with Santana.
Sean must be 15, because he obviously doesn’t remember who owned this town in the 80’s.
weakest division??
actually it was “wekest” like his post…
Your team spent $220 million and you still lose. Your team won just 1 more playoff game than the Mets did this year but spent about $100M more on payroll. Your team is a loser.
I bet the Yankees don’t get Santana. If the Mets don’t get him, it will be the Red Sox. Also, I hate to break it to you, but apparently the Mets are higher on Santana’s wish list than your team.
Hey Sean, two words…Carl Pavano
I heard the Twins want to include Joe Nathan in a Johan Santana package…
lol
gar sheff… hahaha i read on “some site”…which site was that, make stuff up to piss off Mets fans? you are a loser, my friend, as is your team…225 million dollar payroll, lol, and one playoff win haha you suck, your team sucks….if you are a yankee fan, why are you on METSblog? go away
exactly, i’d never go to a yankee’s blog and post something…i guess things must be bery boring in skankee world for him to come here…
Just like i’ve been telling you people all along:
Freddie Coupons and the Mets are CHEAP and are only giving us “the appearance” that they are interested in Santana. Shame on them if they complete a deal for Santana but it breaks down because they won’t guarantee a 6th year…are you kidding me?
This is the different between the Yankees, Red Sox and Mickey Mouse franchises like the Mets.
So last year, they were willing to go 6 years on Zito- one year less than he was willing to accept.
And now this year they are willing to go to 5 years on Santana- one year less than he is willing to accept.
Let the Livan Herandez/Carlos Silva/Kyle Lohse era begin!
I’m tired of how CHEAP this lousy owner is. Stop acting like you are the g*dd8mm Kansas City Royals (just like Joe Benigno was saying on Daily News Live on SNY)
I won’t spend a penny on this team until they do something BIG to win me back after the horrific collapse last year, especially in light of the fact that nobody was fired or held accountable for it.
Ante up, Freddie Coupons. So you are telling me that if they get 4-5 big time years out of him (w/ a championship thrown in?) that they wouldn’t be willing to just accept that and write off the 6th year as a wash? That’s what the NYY or Boston would be willing to do- but not the CHEAP penny pinching Wilpons.
I hate you Freddie Coupons.
STOP the Freddy Coupons nonsense. The Mets right now have the #3 highest payroll. There are 14 guys making more than $1M per year and 4 making more than $10M per year. Anybody who says the Mets don’t pay their players is just plan wrong. By contrast, when the Marlins non-tender Olivo, they will have NOBODY making $1M. THAT is cheap.
And Boston makes $155 million from tickets, while the Mets don’t even make $100 million. Average ticket price at Fenway is MORE THAN DOUBLE that of Shea, and they sell out more often.
So blame the fans before Wilpon if the Mets are being outspent by the only two teams who make more money.
fire firemetmanagement aka MrMet…
I hate to say it, but weren’t we hearing that Zito wanted to come to the Mets?!
no, not once was that news REPORTED, cver, I like you a lot man, but you’re buying into these media driven rumors waaaay too much, not even what Matt is saying right now can be proven unless he came clean on his sources and we found a direct link to Santana’s mouth. Does it make sense? sure, but comparing this to Zito means nothing. Zito never had the Mets in mind, he had money (Boras client) and the west coast in mind, and thats it.
darkstar, I’m with Cver, that news was “reported” all over the place, especially all over this place…we do the same dance here every year. It’s a lot of fun, but its the same game.
Don’t believe me? Take it away, Mr. Cerrone!
Metsblog 2006/12/21/notes-from-the-buzz-on-barry-zito/
“…i think it is clear to all people who are covering and reading about baseball, that the Mets want Barry Zito and zito wants the the Mets…now, whether or not these two will connect remains to be seen…”
Metsblog 2006/12/09/buzz-my-confidence-in-zito/
“…the more i talk with people about Barry Zito, i grow more confident he will eventually sign the Mets…
…this is a good thing, because, while i was once unsure of the move, i grow more convinced with each passing day that he is exactly what the Mets need, regardless of cost…”
haha, you’re funny IMFM, yes, because Cerrone said it, it must be true! Look, Boras is Zito’s agent, he was going where the money was, and that is all we knew. We also know Zito likes the west coast. We also know Zito ended up with the Giants. So what exactly, besides insinuation and a few people in the biz “reporting” so, made us think that Zito wanted to come to the Mets? I know you’re not naive, but on this one, maybe just a little…the end justifies the means my friend, and for all we know, that “story” might have been floated to get another team (san fran) to raise the price.
Freddie Coupons wouldn’t even take Nathan as a THROW IN because that would godforbid mean he’d have to pay an extra 10-12 million. They want to keep their payroll right where it is- a pathetic 95 million- roughly 35% of what the NYY payroll is. Yet Wilpon will raise ticket prices through the roof regardless, I guarantee you that!
You won’t get a dime from me Freddie Coupons.
Stop acting like the Kansas City Royals for once in your life- act like a big market team for ONCE IN YOUR LIFE.
A few years, ago, after Verlander went #2 to the TIgers, the Mets could have drafted Jered Weaver, who I wanted at the time. But instead, they drafted Humber because they didn’t want to PAY Weaver the big signing bonus he would have commanded through Boras. How is this move looking right now? We have Humber, who has zero value.
Freddie Coupons will always be Freddie Coupons, and we’ll always suffer as fans as long as his family owns this team.
Or, Humber could have been a better prospect.
And the following year they drafted Pelfrey… because no one wanted to pay the signing bonus that his agent…SCOTT BORAS… was asking for.
But please, go ahead and continue with your rants filled with inconsistencies.
Well why didn’t the Mets sign Vlad Guerrero in 2004?
They settled for Mike Cameron and used the horrible excuse that Guerrero had a bad back. His back looks pretty good to me. While I don’t hate the Mets management like firemetmanagement does, I have disagreed from time to time.
But there were legitimate concerns about Vlad’s health. It wasn’t like this was made up.
But yes, not signing Vlad was a mistake.
And that’s a definite gripe Mets fans have. However, “But instead, they drafted Humber because they didn’t want to PAY Weaver the big signing bonus he would have commanded through Boras.” is NOT a gripe, because they drafted Pelfrey THE VERY NEXT YEAR.
But I’ll also add, when are we going to let ARod and Vlad go? That was a few years back now, and the Mets are in pretty good shape right now if you ask me.
For sure, but I was just trying to show both sides of the argument, Believe me I tend to lean towards your side of this topic.
Stand up for yourself 17. I happen to agree with Squad. It was a mistake in hindsight but there were legitimate concerns with the player and his back.
I tend to look at what was done lately. Signed Wagner at top dollar at the time, signed Pedro at top dollar and an extra yr, gave beltran the big contract and 7 yrs…Piazza, etc.
it goes both ways. We get some and we lose some.
Vlad got away and was a mistake. Too bad the Free Agent market sucks for both position players and for pitchers this year.
Oh and mr met over there was pushing hard to sign zito for the most money and complained hard when it fell to the giants. who is crying now?
i don’t mind speding the $ on the guy, but do we have to give ALL our prospects to get him one year early?
i will believe this when i read or hear it
I feel Omar needs to jump all over this Santana possibility immediatly. He needs to hound Bill Smith until he is so sick of hearing Omars voice. He needs to be faxing over all the great scouting reports of Gomez, Pelfrey, Humber, Mulvey, F-Mart, Church, and Heilman everyday so Smith has to look at them with his morning coffee. If Omar presents it to him as such, “Listen, you can pick any 5 of our players from the following but it has to be a done deal now, Pelfrey, Humber, Gomez, F-Mart, Church, Heilman, Mulvey, Carp, and Gotay.”. And if he agrees to choose 5 we need to immediatly negotiate with Santana and give him 5, 6, or 7 years or whatever he wants. We tell Johan we have a club that is so close and he is the missing ace we need to get over the final hurdle. He will have his buddy Luis Castillo on the team to make the transition easier for him. He will be in the NL in a pitchers park where he can dominate. He will be the opening day starter on the mound for the first game ever in CItiField. I believe he is aware of all these things and truly wants to be a Met. Now it is all up to Omar to make the deal happen, and for the Wilpons to be flexible with the budget. The money will come back to them by tickets sold to see Santana, Santana jerseys, and postseason tickets sold because Johan gets us there every year. It makes so much sense on every level. I know I am a huge Met fan and biased but to me it makes so much sense for the Twins as well. They get him out of the AL, and they get 5 high ceiling prospects or major league ready talents instead of 2 or 3 from other teams. I would want more quantity to increase my chances of some panning out. He can tell the fans, look we were able to get5 very good players for one pitcher we couldnt resign anyway. Get it done Omar for the sake of your fans please!
Sorry my post is so long but I needed to vent and share my thoughts on this Santana issue. I cant see any reason why Omar cant make it happen and Santana becoming a Met.
It will not come down to money. It will come down to whether or not this GM over there grows the nads to make a damn trade already
Reyes, Humber, Delgado (eat his contract) and Gomez
for………Santana and Mourneau.
Sign Eckstein to replace Reyes.
They would never, ever , ever do that. Never.
Yeah let’s sign Eckstein… the guy who was replaced by CESAR IZTURIS in St. Louis.
Unreal how many people want to trade Reyes.
And one more thing I need to put down because it’s getting to take on a life of its own.
This faulty logic that because the Sox won with Lugo and the Cardinals won with Eckstein you don’t need a star SS to win World Series needs to end immediately.
Reyes is one of our cornerstones. Comparing him to these two is inaccurate. He needs to be compared to a Rolen, Edmonds, Manny, or Big Papi type.
We live in NY. Anyone ever hear of Derek Jeter. He’s won a few rings, right?
Seriously, sometimes I feel like I’m having a discussion with the guy from Memento on here sometimes.
add in Wager and Nathan and then Schneider and Mauer and I think we will have a deal
Are we now betting?
Or just trading in old money for new money…
If we are trading for Santana & Morneau, I am definitely rethinking the ‘Reyes is untouchable’ statement
…wow.
Having the 3rd highest payroll is UNACCEPTABLE when the #1 payroll is 230 million, the #2 payroll is 170 million and the #3 payroll (Mets) is under 100 million!!! They have to be behind the Angels, Dodgers, etc., due to all the payroll that the Mets have cut this offseason. Unacceptable, especially with all of the incredible revenue streams that are and will be pouring in due to SNY, Citifield, naming rights, increased ticket prices at Shea, etc.
Freddie Coupons I hate you.
why are you saying such crazy things?
your name is fire mets management? are you kidding me?
lastings milledge . . . what did you possibly see last year that could make you believe that milledge is that much better than church? cause the mets told you hes a five tool player?
exactly.
Did Milledge not have a much better year…after all, he released a not so successful c-rap album and cut his hair after they told him to!
hehe.
its not under 100 million, you’re insane, leave troll, LEAVE.
STOP THINKING OF TRADING REYES, IT SHOULD NOT AND WILL NOT HAPPEN
More lies. The #2 payroll is not $170M. Absolute fiction. It’s about the same it was last year. Meanwhile, the Mets payroll (regular payroll) is slightly over last years right now. When will the lies end?
VCarver, always wanted to give you much respect for your opinions on Metsblog.
To back you up, here’s the latest from ESPN:
1. NY Yankees 195,229,045 + ARod’s pay
2. Boston 143,123,714
3. NY Mets 116,115,819
4. Chicago Sox 109,290,167
5. LA Angels 109,251,333
6. LA Dodgers 108,704,524
These are salary figures for all players currently on the roster, including Dodgers signing AJones and Angels signing Hunter and Garland.
You can’t just bring back the same bunch of chokers (with their raises) and have even roughly the same payroll. It’s time for the payroll to be 130 million minimum and it should never dip below that due to all of the incredible revenue streams the Mets are bringing in. Within a few years, it should be in the 150-170 million dollar range.
Start naming names. Who on this awful list of free agents should they sign… go.
Alou, Castillo, Castro…and lemme think… maybe Torrealba…
umm. never mind.
Alou and Castro were not bad signings. Now Castillo for four years…
I would bring in Conine for 1 more run would be a positive thing and spell an OF or 1b occasionally. He does know how to hit… a LH Lenny Harris.
Rowand would be a good sign, making it fit is another thing…can he play 1st? He is the type of player that they should be looking at (not necessarily him) even though his OBP could be higher, which you could say about many that start on this team.
Plus we already have 4 not counting Gomez who is too young or not even going to be here if we get that SP w’re drooling over. But if they have to let go Chaves/Church in the Santana deal, then they should bring in Roward for RF.
One more thing. Don’t be a dope. They’ve replaced a lot of overpriced garbage with young, cheap talent like Wright, Reyes, Maine, and Perez. Heilman doesn’t make much either.
Once these guys all need to be resigned (especially Wright, Reyes, Perez, and Maine) you’ll see the payroll jump.
reyes and wright were just locked up last year
They’re still signed for a lot cheaper than they would cost on the open market.
And he mentioned how the 2003 roster had a higher payroll… Reyes and Wright are part of the reason for the decrease in payroll.
Given that we’re getting close to 120 mil already, just to fill out the logical spots on the roster, we’ll come close to or over 130 mil even without adding Santana or another big contract. Is the difference between having an appropriate big market payroll and “acting like the Royals” as you put it earlier, really only a couple of million dollars?
my trip to a net game last night being a knick fan makes me realize something about us mets fan. nets fans actually dont give a rats ass about the knicks. they are just there enjoying their product. they are a bit too tame and boring for my tastes, but at least in that very difficult market (which it is!) they put out a quality team and great presentation. i am not trying to be a homer, but sometimes as fans, we ask for the seemingly impossible because of some unspoken inferiority complex.
Why not sign Gagne? Yeah he sucked for Boston but he’s be a good bet to come back to the NL and do well- especially on a 1 year deal where he’d be motivated for another big pay day. The Brewers just signed him to a 1 year deal. Where was Omar? Why not sign Gagne? I know he’s white, but still…
Gagne isn’t a bad idea, but he wants to close, which is what he’ll do for the Brew Crew.
awful idea
Gagne totally sucked last year
why would he be better with us?
sometimes I think everyone thinks real baseball is just like a fantasy league
the best bullpens have young kids who can throw gas
we better hope Duaner comes back 100% - otherwise, we got bupkas in the pen
Gagne sucked for like 2 months with the Red Sox. He pitched well for Texas.
On a one year deal he isn’t a bad idea. Depends on what the Mets want to do… especially if Heilman goes in a trade.
But I agree, and always have agreed with the Kevin Towers method of building a pen. Former starters and minor league strike throwers.
He’s French. Which nobody likes.
Besides ever since steroids have been banned so has his fastball.
Pass on him.
Yes the Mets need an ace but they also need a few guys in the bullpen and also need to upgrade the offense (which was insufficient in 2007 and was weakened this offseason by replacing LoDuca and Milledge with inferior offensive players in Schneider and Church). Why not go after Fukudome or Rowand? Spend some $$$ instead of having a 400,000 dollar in Right Field (Church).
Squad,
Here is your list:
Gagne (probably gone), Fukudome, Rowand, Dotel, as well as the 2-3 good Japanese relievers are out there.
But stupidly, the Mets will never touch another Japanese free agent position player just because Kaz Matsui was a failure.
How close minded and stupid- that is why this is a loser franchise…and this is the difference between the Mets and Yankees.
I hate Freddie Coupons.
Gagne: wanted to close and will probably land a closers job somewhere.
Rowand: wants way too much money (more on him in a second).
Fukudome: I wouldn’t mind him if Church goes in a Johan deal.
Dotel: Pass. Injuries and I believe it’s better to build a bullpen following the Kevin Towers method.
Now, as for the RF situation. Spending dollars doesn’t always make sense (see what I did there?) Now, to the point.
162 game averages for Rowand and Church:
Rowand’s: 18 HR 66 RBI .286/.343/.462 106OPS+
Church: 16 HR 71 RBI .271/.348/.462 113OPS+
Pretty similar eh? So why overpay for Rowand when you can have Church, who is also LH? Rowand is also a year older and spends more time on the DL.
As for LoDuca v. Schneider. Historically, LoDuca is a much better hitter: 99 career OPS+ to Schneider’s 82. However, LoDuca’s OPS+ last season was 80, compared to 77 for Schneider. Schneider also had a higher OBP than LoDuca last year.
So, considering the weak catching market, the better defense, and the LH bat (making him an ideal partner for Castro), I think Schneider is a solid replacement at catcher for the next 2 years.
“So why overpay for Rowand when you can have Church, who is also LH? ”
Rowand is RH but I agree with everything else you said.
I know Rowand is RH… that was meant to read that being LH is yet another +1 in the Church column.
is omar gonna be at the coat drive?? there are some things i need to speak to him about…
The answer to the pennant isn’t Japanese players. They fill a void if you need to, they also market well in Japan.
Pitching wins.
Matt posted that bullpens are freakishly inconsistent which I agree. One year your group of guys have all the answers and another year they stink.
Although how you use them does play a part, you can mismanage the bullpen. Last year I give partial blame to Willie and how the bullpen was handled.
Also last year every darn game seemed to have been 2 runs or less in the 7th. The bullpen eventually fell apart under the stress.
Adding a stud starter of course is the answer and needing to give up future talent for it is well worth it. How often do prospects pan out? 50%?
Make the trade…
Who cares if he wants to close? The idea is to pay him enough so that he doesn’t care. That’s what the NYY would do. But Freddie Coupons would never do that…he is too cheap.
When have the Yankees done that? With Farnsworth? Please, he was a closer for like 2 seconds. Gagne has won a Cy Young and is an elite closer. He wants to close.
why keep engaging the moron? Just let the troll go its healthier for all of us
I’ve got to assume that if he is traded to the Mets, both sides are going to want to work out an extension. Therefore, his current contract will be terminated, and a new contract worked out.
So, if the Mets offer him a 6 year/120M deal, it will be similar to offering a 5 year deal next year as if he were a free agent… and if Zito can get 7/126 on the open market, Santana can get 8/160.
The Mets could get a bargain in years if he comes here, have him under contract until he’s 35, and then, reassess the situation when the time comes.
We just lost Mota’s 3.2 Million, Glavines 11Million, and Valentine’s 4 Million. There’s this year’s contract.
[...] Metsblog: Johan Wants Us I just don’t see how we can pull this off but it’s nice to see that Johan wouldn’t mind being on the Mets. Seriously, is there anyway that this could get done without Reyes?? Buzz: Santana Wants to Be On the Mets | MetsBlog.com [...]
Stop teasing me Cerrone. But at least the glimmer of hope remains.
[...] Metsblog: Cerrone discovers Santana likes the Mets. [...]
I have a question about the whole thing with zito. I realize that because Johan is the best pitcher in baseball he should be the best compensated. But, at this point doesnt anyone who know baseball realize that the Zito contract was a mistake and an anomaly? Why are all other teams forced to live with Sabean’s (who is a complete and utter moron) mistake? Yes, zito did get his contract, but if he was on the open market again he would command nowhere near what he got.
Also dumped Green’s 6 million and LDuca’s 6.5 million.
So yeah, payroll needs to come up. Why should there be such a strict budget anyway? What are we the Oakland A’s?
I forgot about Valentin’s 4 million. But I wouldn’t rule out “Los M*ts” resigning him to a 2 year deal.
Oooh, how convenient. You also forgot that Schneider and the raise to Castro totally wipes out any savings from Lo Duca, and that Castillo’s contract totally wipes out any savings from Valentin. In fact, Castillo, Castro and Schneider ADDED money to the payroll!
The salary increases for Beltran, Delgado, Wright, Reyes and others also more than wipe out any savings from Green’s $6 million and Glavine’s $10.5M. But why let facts get in the way of your rant?
Fact is, their obligations to players next year are currently higher than this year … but being you, you will continue to say they have cut payroll over and over even thought it’s not true.
:roll:
Thank you. These one way cost-cutters are running into oncoming traffic with their tunnel-vision salary blinders on.
I can’t accuse the Mets of spending like the KC Royals anymore because they have spent a lot more than us the last few years- look it up. They are being aggressive, unlike our owner. Give them some credit.
Dude, get a grip. here’s KC’s top 5
1. Gil Meche $7,4M
2. Jose Guillen $5M
3. Mark Grudzielanek $4M
4. Emil Brown $3.45M
5. David DeJesus $2M
and Mets top 5
1. Carlos Delgado $14.5M
2. Pedro Martinez $14M
3. Carlos Beltran $13.6M
4. Billy Wagner $10.5M
5. Moises Alou $7.5M
It’s inconceivable how KC is spending money. Inconceivable.
Rowand is exactly the kind of tough, gritty, hardnose hustle player that this team full of choking, gutless, loafing cowards needs.
Wilpon is so cheap.
Ex- Guerrero
the Gueurroro fiasco is over, leave it alone, your act is tired, times change, and so should you. If you hate this franchise so much, why don’t you leave? you said it before, you were leaving, no longer a fan, yet here you are, pathetic as ever. Just leave, do us all a favor, single handidly make this fanbase more respectable by leaving.
yeah, Rowand is EXACTLY the kind of lifetime .286 18HR 65RBI guy we need to strike out 100 times next year, unless of course he is so gritty he runs into a wall and is out for a month. THAT’S THEY GUY!!
my guess is that the Twins hold on to him until mid season. at that point we’ll here another billion rumors from another set of unnamed sources. Yankees, Bosox, Dodgers, and Mets all in the mix again. But in the end I see the Twins sending him to the Yankees for one of their, better than our, prospects. Sure Minnesota would like to accommodate him, but playing for the contending Yankees for a year in NY will still be attractive enough to Santana for him to accept a trade if it means getting out of Minnesota. The Yankees urgency for a starting pitcher will overwhelm them by that point especially if the BOSOX are leading the division by that point. The Twins aren’t just going to accept a, perceived to be, less valuable package from the Mets just to make Sanatana happy. The Twins and Santana will compromise. Johan will be happy enough to go to any contender in NY, and the Twins would likely prefer something the Yankees have to offer. Of course money isn’t the same kind of issue for the Yankees, as far as signing a 5-6 year deal, as it would be for the Mets imo.
the mets need more than 1 good pitcher they need an ace and a second slot man and it cant be martinez you need someone like
1santana
2lowry / blanton
3martinez
4maine
5perez
duke in the bullpen
i dont see them having any chance at that rotation cuz they dont have the prospects to acquire both santana and lowry/blanton but wow. imagine those five with duke in the pen? mets would be unstoppable lol
Some of you people are so absurd. Yes, Mets have made mistakes, but get the facts.
Vlady. Yes it was a mistake - but there were health concerns. Mets weren’t the only team to miss the boat there. It was also reported at the time that Vlad was looking for a warm weather team, and just used the mets to get Angels interested.
A-Rod (part 1). Did Mets cheap out there? well, I don’t think they should have paid 252 MIllion.
Zito - did Mets cheap out there, or do you think he was worth it?
Mets have overpaid for players in the past. The franchise has made many errors, but I can count very few occasions where they “cheaped out”. Did they chaep out for Beltran? Did they cheap out for Pedro? Even talking about Santana, the idea is the number of years - that they don’t want a pitcher who got injured and have to run a team with dead money.
Wilpon runs the Mets as a business, which is the way its supposed to be run. They have a budget. It’s usually 3rd or 4th in the majors; where do you think their revenue ranks? probably similar. We’re not talking about the Griffith family in Minn, or Glass in KC.
As for Ticket costs, food, etc, you people need to learn a little economics. Supply and Demand. What does a beer cost in a Manhattan hot spot? You don’t like the parking cost (which by the way, they don’t set- I believe its set by NYC)- take public transportation. They currently let you bring in your own food if you want - that doesn’t sound like the ownership some of you are portraying. Learn to be fair people.
Back to baseball talk.
Santana has a full no trade. somehow people want to ignore this.
I’m not naive enough to think he’s going to use this to force a deal to the Mets, but I do think this could mean he might veto some deals (Seattle?) and that I believe him when he says he will not allow a July trade. He has no reason to “help out” the Twins; it has to be mutually beneficial for them to deal him.
I’d love to see Santana on the Mets, but I also don’t want to destroy the farm - nothing would please me more to have a team lead by home grown players.
The farm? What farm? These guy collectively have done nothing - I REPEAT N O T H I N G - in the major leagues. And they may end up doing nothing too. Anybody remember the highly touted David West, who was supposed to be one of our so-called prize prospects? Does the name Alex Escobar ring a bell?
Remember any time a team trades a superstar for a lot of young talent with so-called “potential,” the team trading the superstar almost always gets the s**t end of the deal. “Examples” you ask? How about the Tom Seaver trade? Even in other sports like basketball, the Charles Barkley and Alan Iverson trades. Happen all the time.
I say get the best deal you can from the Twins and do this deal. Santana will get us 18-22 wins a year.
you right
is anyone sure he wouldnt wanna play in a smaller market…i mean minnesota is ab as small as it gets and hes been here basically his whole career
or there
Hey Matt, love the time and effort you put into this site, but honestly I do not believe this for second. If is was true, why hasn’t this been reported by Heyman, Gammons, Olney, Phillips, etc. yet? You would think that those supposed “top” analysts would be on top of things. If you do turn out to be right I will give you all the credit in the world. I just think that this is too far-fetched. Maybe it is just me trying to not get my hopes up, who knows.
There’s nothing really for the Heyman’s to report on yet. Matt is just laying out the scenario as it now exists: Sox are reluctant bidders at this point; Yankees are out ,supposedly (reluctant too about prospects and money involved); Santana can veto trades he’s not down with, and the Mets are on his list; Mets are offering a lot of personnel (and Twins fans like our prospects–check out their blogs), and can actually afford to sign Johan; Twins have an incentive to send Johan to the NL. This adds up to some serious momentum for the Mets. WHat’s to report that’s new? Nothing. Matt’s just connecting the dots.
That’s true, it is really nothing new. Although the teams I am worried about are the Angels and Dodgers. They both have better prospects then the Mets and the Angels have Hunter, who is best friends with Santana and supposedly Santana is really close to Torre. So I guess it is just me not trying to get my hopes up.
Or is it just wishful thinking meant to stir up the masses and keep readers interested and coming back?
Kramer,
Get a clue buddy, and take a walk yourself. The payroll was not raised when the Mets signed Wagner, Beltran, Martinez, traded for Delgado, etc. The Mets gave us “the illusion” that they were these big spenders- and that was good/sneaky marketing on their part- give them credit, they are a business…
But fact is none of those moves raised the payroll by a significant amount. The payroll has remained virtually unchanged, and in fact has gone way down this year- despite all of the revenue that is pouring in.
Freddie Coupons is still the same cheap guy and always will be.
And if he doesn’t give Santana the 6th year (if for some reason the Mets do come to an agreement with MINN) he will continue to be draw the ire of the Mets fans.
People are such “patsies” on this blog- I could never figure out why. If you look on the newspaper blogs or the ESPN Mets blog, for example- you will see that pretty much everyone agrees with me and that the patsies/apologists on this blog are in the minority. Just can’t figure out why.
What is really the most important thing about Freddie Coupons is that he has raised ticket prices every year for the last 7 years. From what I read on this blog most of you are NOT season ticket holders, Just Big Met Fans. You people have no clue about ticket prices. This is where Freddie Coupons an his son Jefferey Coupons have been at there cheapest, The ticket prices for the Mets are on par with the ticket prices for the Yankees, Yet The Yankees out spend the METS BIG TIME. The Mets have a New Network a New Ballpark coming. THEY SHOULD SPEND LIKE THEY WANT TO WIN.
Go back and read all the players the Mets where interested in getting his year. EVERY YEAR THE METS (PR DEPARTMENT) PUTS OUT THE INFO THE METS ARE SPEAKING TO A-ROD, ZITO, VLADIMIR GUERRERO SANTANA, WILLIS, AND SO ON. The Mets are always linked to the top free agents just to get the fans hyped up.
Yes they have spent on Martinez, Beltran..So what..To have the same ticket prices as the Yankees and most of the time get the 2-3 tier players. The Wilpons are the greatest business men and The worst at WINNING……..
“The ticket prices for the Mets are on par with the ticket prices for the Yankees, Yet The Yankees out spend the METS BIG TIME.”
how many yankee games have you ever been to or yankee fans do you know? They are more expensive ..by a pretty good clip..so NO they are not on par..
I go to 30 Mets games and 20 Yankee gmes a year. Yankees tickets are about 10-15% higher.
I understand Yankees are raising prices this year as are the Mets, For the most expensive seats both are going up about 20-25%.
I’m just saying we’re in NYC, Baseball has no CAP..Lets spend and have the best team every year!!!! Don’t tease the fans every year…Doulbeday should have bought the Mets from the Wilpon’s the Mets would be alot better….Period. Nelson was a spender, Fred always held him back. Piazza was Doubleday’s doing 100%
Get Santana prove me wrong!!!!!!!!!!!Lets go Mets
the Mets don’t have CLOSE to the national fanbase the Yankees do. Why do people ignore this? Yea, we play in the same city, but probably 90% of the Mets paying fan base lives in New York. I’d wager that no more than 60% of the Yankees fan base lives in New York, and not because they have less fans. Yankees merchandise is by far the best selling nationally year after year (the only team that competes is the Red Sox). I live in DC, and when I go to sporting goods stores, they sell Nationals stuff and Yankees stuff in bulk, while other teams are relegated to the scrap heap. Sometimes I get lucky and find Mets gear, but it’s not a guarantee, and this is in DC, only 5 hours from NY!
So yea, the Mets play in the same city as the Yankees, but they don’t have close to the same resources as the Yankees. Why not compare us to the rest of the NL East, who we significantly outspend every year.
lets not include f-mart we need something in the future to look to give ryan church up instead and let f-mart play at right
On a separate note, has there ever been 300 comments before?
Whoohoo!!!
300 posts!!
Cerrone is actually the worlds best businessman. He posts one bogus rumor about Santana on a Saturday, and we jump on it like a bunch of hungry dogs. We are the dopes. 300 posts…wow
minaya and santana to dance after trade?
http://www.elfyourself.com/?id=1244230858
hilarous
That’s the Best Post of the Day. LMAO
Good job. Had just used this to do a group dance of my family. Now someone should do the mets infield dancing together.
Slow news day will draw hungry mets fans anytime. I don’t think we would be so int this all if we didn’t think that this team is very nice.
…and we’re all getting over our end-of -the -year-collapse hangovers!
CONSPIRACY THEORY #1: SNY is using its new-found partnership with MetsBlog to “leak” “stories” like this to dilute Santana and the Twins’ position. Nice.
I like it .. secret agenda propaganda machine, nicely done.
once again some of you don’t understand economics.
a) Mets raise prices because THEY CAN. when attendance drops, so will prices.
b) Ticket prices represent a small part of revenue stream. Like it or not, Yankee revenue is still significantly higher than Mets.
Spending money like a drunken sailor is not the answer; spending wisely is.
Now, between this and my comment about the farm some of you think that I don’t want mets to go hard after Santana- that’s not true.
I just don’t believe the “give up everyone and spend anything” approach some here are proposing.
As for “the farm” - yes, they don’t all work out- and with Met farm most don’t work out- but there have been deals (see Omar trading for Colon while in Montreal) that they have given up too much. Would you want them to give up Gomez, F-Mart, Pelfrey, Humber, Mulvey, and Deolis Guerra in one deal for Santana? that’s putting an awful lot of eggs in one basket. Will all of em turn out to be good major leaguers? probably not, but if you take the example of both the Yankees and Red Sox, that’s probably not a good idea.
Peter, these people will never truly understand what running a baseball team as a business means. The Wilpons do exactly what basically every other owner in professional sports do, they use revenue from the business to put back into the business, they aren’t about to take money out of their personal bank accounts to fund the team, or put so much money into the team where they aren’t even breaking even. Why should they do that? It’s a business, no business would do that. Do they care about winning? Of course, its their business, they want it to thrive, and of course that means more money. Do they care about the fans? Of course, if they didn’t, why would they spend over $100 million on payroll and build a new ball park? But they’re not going to be crazy, all in all, its a business, and I think a lot of fans need to take their collective heads out of you know where and realize that. Baseball is a business, if you don’t like it, don’t support the business.
That being said, raising the payroll to the Yankees level will do what? Have us lose 5 times in a row in the divisional series and not make the world series and cause our fans to become even more irate and annoying? I don’t understand this, one bit. Also, our main competition is the NL, not the Yankees, or the Red Sox, we need to concentrate on that more collectively as fans. But i’m with you, what will raising the payroll do? Should we have signed Zito to 7 years, 130 mill to get him away from the west coast and have him be our #4 pitcher for 4 years, and our swing man for 3? Should we sign Rowand to 5 years 80 mill to hit .260 and 18 HRs and be gritty? Should we sign Carlos Silva for 4 years 45 mill so he can eat (literally) innings? I don’t get it. These are both deals everyone would hate here anyway. So, what players should we be spending money on?
damn over 300 comments, must not be a hot day for information
i snooped around on some twins blogs to find some interesting stuff…they actually seem very interested in our prospects…kind of makes me get my hopes up even more which is prob a bad thing…of cousre some ppl do not like the mets prospects but alot do…and it seems weve fmart enough where they would def accept a deal with him and gomez and some pitching but maybe we can do something with church and gomez…take a look.
and heres that blog from which matt was posting about during the week…
take a look at the comments section in both if you have some free time…pretty interesting.
twinsfanatnicks.blogspot.com/
nc.startribune.com/blogs/neal/
woudlnt let me post the websites before
way too little time to read every post!
But deosn’t it seem tha tthe Mets can hardball just a little bit? At least pull their pants back up to their knees?
Sur it woul dbe nice to have Santana, but gutting every ML ready or close to it prospect is liely to cripple them. You get a few injuries, and suddenly have Park, Lawrenece, etc. in the rotation and Newhan starting in right.
I’m sure the package will hurt, but please don’t make it fatal.
I really hope they can hold onto at least Pelfrey and F Mart. Behond that, oh well. Guess Mulvey and Garcia are gone, probably Heilman too (which may hurt more than you think), but what beyond that?
And maybe they can keep the contract to 5/100 so they can still sign more players later?
Remember, getting Santana hurts twice. THey have less budget to sign FAs next year, and since they trade all the close prospects, no one to fill the open spots (which will be many).
Maybe Garcia, Mulvey as central, and some prospects a little further out?
I resent the fact that you didn’t read every post. :-)
I just heard the Mets traded their whole team for Santana. Everyone is going to Minnesota except Wright.
:]~
Los Twins…I love it.
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=11215059&postID=2832155772114793552
Doesn’t this make mets fans happy.
that’s what im saying
Aren’t twins fans great! They are all so calm and behaved in their posts, agreeing with each politely and begging pardons. It really is precious. Pussies.
Fire Isiah
Are you people telling me you wouldn’t want to have Gagne come into a tight 7th inning game over stiffs like Jorge Sosa and Joe Smith?!! The bullpen is still a mess- and keep and mind the bullpen (and Willie) was the biggest reason for the collapse.
No he’s not the Gagne of 2002, but he would have helped this garbage bullpen we have and Minaya has done NOTHING to make the bullpen or any other facet of the team better.
But Freddie Coupons would have said no even if Minaya wanted Gagne.
Would have been worth 1 year, 5 million or whatever Milwaukee gave him.
But I guess we’re not in a financial position to compete with teams like the Brewers. Gotta keep that payroll at 97 million right where it is! And still raise ticket prices through the roof!
Won’t get a penny from me Freddie Coupons.
you’re problem is not being able to realize that maybe these players don’t want to come to the Mets. I”m sure Gagne wants to close, or at least be in a position where he’ll have a great chance to take over the closers job. Why would he come to the Mets to be a 7th inning guy?
No. Betcha Gagne is on the Mitchell report. He and Mota can shoot each other up, as far as I’m concerned.
There are plenty of things to be ticked off about, but this business about Wilpon not being willing to spend the $$ is hot air. Nothing to it whatsoever. Ever since Omar became GM, there’s no evidence of it.
We were willing to outspend others for Pedro and Beltran. We took on contracts like Delgado and Green that were kind of bloated. We’ve overpaid on a lot of guys (Mota, Valentin) and almost gave Torrealba an insane contract.
Like the guy says, the fact that we didn’t sign Gagne isn’t even remotely connected to Wilpon’s (un)willingness to spend $$.
Last year, Omar advised Wilpon *not* to shell out 7/126 for Zito, like the Giants did. I’m sure that Wilpon will not overrule Omar if he recommends an expensive long-term deal for Santana.
Like I said, the Mets may have been guilty of some bad decisions, but there’s been no evidence of unwillingness to spend. If a guy signs with or gets traded to another team instead of the Mets, there may be good or bad reasons for that, but that doesn’t mean it’s about being cheap.
the ‘Freddie Coupons’ talk is frankly delusional
the reason the Yankees, Red Sox and Mets are the 3 biggest spending teams, is that they respectively own the YES, NESN and SNY networks
the YES network was estimated at being worth $3 Billion dollars in August 2007
yes, that’s B as in Billion
the value & revenue generated by the Sox owned NESN network is credited with helping the Red Sox recent successful run
likewise, the Wilpons are no business fools, and understand that with a new ballpark coming and to ensure the value of the SNY network that they will spend what it takes to win
that doesn’t mean they should be reckless about it
hopefully that includes figuring out some way of acquiring a frontline pitcher for next season
if not Santana, somebody similar
The bullpen became the visible problem. The real reason was the starting pitching not giving a solid 6 to 7 innings everytime out for most of the second half. The bullpen became grossly overworked which led to their collapse. The starting pitching got to the point where as soon as they got into the slightest bit of trouble, Willie would go out and remove them because he wasn’t able to trust them. Then of course as soon as the bullpen imploded he ended up not knowing what to do.He’d put somebody in and that guy would throw gas on the fire. He’d replace him with someone else and that guy would get out of the jam. Next day he would go with that guy that got out of the jam, and then he’d throw gas on the fire. Willie ended up with whoever he chose just couldnt get the job done.
Solidify the starting pitching and the bullpen wont be over used.
331 comments and counting! You got us good this time Matt. Is this a test? Did Mets.com put you up to this?!
few thoughts on all the posts…
-Reyes isn’t going anywhere, Omar said he isn’t gonna be traded; i believe this is true… Thank god henderson is gone… never liked him coaching Reyes, I personally feels he has more person motives then for the team
-I wouldn’t say the Mets have be cheap recently, THANK GOD we’re not the Yankees, its easy to be a Yankee fan, Mets fans have felt the highest of highs and lowest of lows, and alot more lows then high… and thank god we don’t have big mouth hank running the ship…
- I hope we can land this… I feel Johan would fit in very well with the chemistry of the team, and maybe he could learn so tricks from the older members of the staff, would also give a big boost to the entire team
-call me a pesimist but I don’t Johan will be traded due to the fact that they have a new GM who doesn’t want to start off on the wrong foot… trading one of the best in baseball
well, Mark Shapiro was a new GM with Cleveland when he traded Roberto Alomar to the mets (yeah, I hate alomar more than any met in history…) but Shapiro thought he was trading away the best 2nd baseman in baseball for some prospects… this deal is not impossible (but admittedly, I don’t think it’s likely).
http://www.mlbfleecefactor.com
good read.
whatever you need to do, do it!
get johan. to. new. york. (& not the yanks!!)
Followed the link to the Twins blog and found it very promising. They are almost convincing me to keep our prospects. Almost. Most of the Twins fans want our prospects and see them as undervalued. They think they can fleece us of almost all of our guys. I was surprised to read they really want Joe Smith in a deal. If thats what it takes they can have him. I hope Bill Smith listens to his fans and even more so to Santana and sends us Johan. Please get him Omar!
the twins fans seem to really want Johann in the National League as well so they don’t have to see him come back home and shut them down. This is all going according to plan :)
Hope springs eternal …
354 Comments.
Record, Matt?
Who cares if Gagne wants to close? Should have payed him enough so that he doesn’t mind setting up. Mets have the money, just overpay- there is plenty of $$$ coming in such that we can overpay for a few middle relievers. The money is not being spent anywhere else.
come on we cant get to 400 posts, what is a matter with you guys, just because every single thing has been said on this subject doesn’t mean we cant keep going.
Check this out:
This has been copied and paste from Newsday:
As for the Mets, Omar Minaya continued to express faith yesterday in his non-Reyes trading chips. “Omar gets an A for effort,” one non-Mets official involved in the talks said. Even lefty reliever Pedro Feliciano’s name came up in conversation between the two clubs.
The only way the Mets could possibly overcome their lack of stellar prospects, one official with knowledge of the talks said, would be if Minaya offered a massive package of players. Let’s say six or seven. And then, perhaps, the Twins could take three of those and turn them around to trade for a third baseman.
It’s all very hairy, from all ends.
Thats what I’m saying. Omar needs to offer more quantity to overcome the quality other teams are offering. This is better for the Twins in my opinion being that with more prospects the chances are more pan out. However I am Omar I break up the players we offer into groups for Smith to choose from. For example lets say Smith can choose from the following: 1 player from group A (Gomez, F-Mart), 2 players from group B (Humber, Pelfrey, Heilman and Mulvey), 3 players from the folling misc. group C (Carp, Gotay, Church, Padilla, Feliciano, Endy Chavez, Anderson Hernandez.). The players I used for example can be mixed around or players added besides Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Maine, and Perez. Any players besides those 5 are available in my eyes. So Smith gets 6 players but in a way that he doesnt get to take all of our top prospects, but rather pick a certain number from different tiered groups.
So for example he may choose Gomez, Pelfrey, Humber, Gotay, Smith, and Church. Then we would need to sign a RF but who cares. We would then have the best pitcher in baseball.
Thinking about it and then hearing it brought uo on WFAN, when was the last time the Mets had a legitimate ace in his prime? Not Pedro he was and is too old even when we signed him. Glavine? No. I think we need to go back as far as to Cone or Gooden. Thats pretty pathetic. With Santana we get a stud in his prime which we havent had since the 80’s.
Santana seems like a nice boy. You just shouldnt go giving it all up on the first date.
Wait UP A SECOND!!!!!!!
OMARR OPEN UR EYES!!!
Wasnt it a Detroit Official that said that they see ” PELFREY BEING A GREAT RELIEVER” and they’re in need of a relief help?
and Hellloo! Inge…No where to go..great third baseman????? Three way Deal in the works?
Pelfrey and Other pitching prospect for Detroit send Inge to Minnesota…Send Johan and Nathan over to the Mets.
Mets must as well send Heilman or Gomez or Mulvey….
SOUNDS FRIGGINNN GREAT TO ME! EVERYONE ONES.. NO HEADACHES FOR ALL THREE CLUBS!
So, who is saying that Brandon Inge is a great third baseman?
Leiter was a legit ACe for a short period there i thought
orrrrrr
MIKE HAMPTON ROFL
Leiter not an ace to me and Hampton was for one year (thank God we didnt re-sign him). We need someone like Santana locked up for the next 5-7 years. Its what are team lacks most.
sup billy
Whats up my man? Yo if we get Santana we will definetly do the playoff ticket swap we should have been able to do this past season.
AL was ACE LIKE dominant in 1998 … i remember that year ….. and his stats show that …. but after that your right .. he was a VERY GOOD number 2
Fredy Coupons.
This is grade A BullShidt to keep our attention.
Record breaking Comment 373;
Santa, please bring me a major leauge manager for the NY Mets this year.
Sent the free T Shirt to Number41.
size XXXXX
Do you have one that does not mention Omar?
Cuz, quite honestly, the trust factor is dwindling…
why can I not find news about this anywhere else? this is pretty big news, yet no one is reporting it. how is it that you are the only one that knows this? either you are more connected than anyone had imagined or this is just another blog hoax. i just hope this site does not turn into some organizational propaganda machine.
I’m posting just so we can hit 400.
Anyway - I agree with you. Why haven’t I heard anything about this from any other source? I’m starting to think that someone hacked the site since nothing else was posted after this Santana news. Anyway, If I learned one thing from following the winter meetings, It’s that people make up all kinds of news just to get fans talking.
[...] Mets Blog said it December 8th: having talked with a variety of people over the last few days, ranging from those who are connected to the team to people connected to player reps to those who work in media and for teams who are following the negotiations, from what i can gather, Johan Santana prefers to be on the Mets, where he can a) be in New York City, and b) get out of the hitter-dominant American League… [...]
[...] the past few days, and thanks to Met blog pioneer Matthew Cerrone, there finally has been some light shed on a developing situation that seemed so destined from the [...]
Womens Plus Size Clothes…
I found your site on technorati and read a few of your other posts. Keep up the good work. I just added your RSS feed to my Google News Reader. Looking forward to reading more from you….
u a
Figure I’ll fill in the blanks for ya…..
Payee dis man hizz munny…
I thought about that, but Matt says that Omar and Johan’s agent could be in contact if they were close to a deal.
It would never be halted because of money. I think both sides would be resonable about this. Santana is the best and so should get something more than Zito. This won’t play out like the ARod soap-opera (or “soak”-opera). The sticking point will be players, and I hope we drive a hard bargain there.
I don’t see why we could not meet his at 6 years and have a performance clause to activate a 7th and maybe even 8th. Those clauses can also determine salary too, ie if you are pitching like the best pitcher or the third best pitcher in the NL you will remain the highest paid pitcher in the league, of course there will be some minimum innings clauses.
“based on their willingness to spend over the past 4 years”
Umm…the Met payroll was higher in 2003 than it has been the last 4 years.
Since 2003, MLB’s revenues have more than doubled.
MOOT not MUTE. Learn English
Ok, thanks. That seems more likely. I don’t want to get too excited for nothing.
Agree with you Metsdude, but there are ways to perhaps get around those things:
Greenberg: Hypothetically speaking, would you ever be adverse to giving a pitcher 7 years?
Omar: We have our guidelines and that’s something I’d hate doing. But it depends on the pitcher. If the pitcher were truly one of the best in the game, I’d certainly be willing to go that length.
Greenberg: Hmmm, ok. Just checking.
Both Greenberg and Omar have big smiles on their faces when having this conversation!
Anyway, AFAIK, the tampering rules do no extend to players and Castillo could already have made numerous phone calls to Santana to sell him on the Mets. I have my doubts about giving Castillo 4 years, but if he turns out to be helpful in securing Santana, it’s all worth it.
You’re not getting excited for nothing. This trade is the most logical one for the Twins to make on many levels which Matt discussed. The only sticking point will be their player demands. They’ve moved on from Reyes, but are probably still pushing for Maine. We don’t have to do that–we can offer 6 players–far more than the Sox offered, and very competitive with them as well. Looking at Heilman, Pelfry, Gomez, Church, and two other “parts” from Humber/Mulvey/Carp/etc. A ton of talent there, and this list of young talent shows that contrary to what many have said, the Mets do have strong farm talent (which they will lose to make this deal–but not all of it–FMart stays!).
Reggaeton spelled backwards is Not-something . . .
You are right…and we can thank Mo Vaughm for sucking up $17 million. Another reason to hate Steve Phillips. FYI, opening Day payrolls for 25-man roster.
2007: $115,231,663
2006: $101,084,963
2005: $101,305,821
2004: $ 96,660,970
2003: $117,476,429
2002: $ 94,633,593
2001: $ 93,674,429
2000: $ 79,800,000
Let’s also not be dumb and forget about context.
Reyes and Wright have been on the team for 3 seasons now and were making peanuts.
Maine, Perez, and Heilman also make almost nothing.
Steinbrenner can’t steal him if Santana exercises his no-trade. That’s our “ace-in-the-hole.)
player 2 player communication is NOT tampering…something tells me they didnt just sign Castillo cuz of his glove and bat…
I’m telling you, for numerous reasons, I feel like I am living in the Twilight Zone this weekend… then I come on here and find I am in complete agreement with you and VCarver on a few Mets issues.
But yeah… trading Reyes… not a good idea.
It is tampering if the Mets put Castillo up to it.
You do realize that the .400 avg is based on 20 at-bats, right? Are you really arguing that that’s significant enough of a sample size to project the way he’ll handle the pressure of New York over the rest of his career? Should we have traded Wright last year because his .160 NLCS avg (over more at-bats- 25, by the way) “proved” that he would never be a good “clutch” player? Basing some sort of career projection on 20 at-bats is ridiculous.
Milledge was traded because of his attitude. Remember he didnt run out a ball either. He woke up the Marlins on the next to last day just so he could “get his props” on a meaningless homer. He pretty much rubbed half the guys the wrong way in the clubhouse. Oh, and he probably had another album coming out.l LOL
to all of them.
the most expensive year was our worst and the cheapest was our best…how do you like that