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At the blog for Mets Refugees, Dan takes a closer look at what fans can expect from Mets OF Ryan Church, who was acquired a few weeks ago, along with C Brian Schneider, in exchange for OF Lastings Milledge.
Ultimatly, Dan says…
“I think Mets fans will be
happy with the production they receive from right field in 2008. Although, I think Mets fans would have been happy with the production they would have received from Milledge in right field, as well.”
…the thing is, as evident by the following quote, this decision had less to do with our collective happiness, and most everything to do with the Mets trying to win now, next season, and milledge being too undeveloped to contribute, right now…
Willie Randolph, speaking about Milledge, while talking to reporters during the Winter Meetings in Nashville…
“You can’t make mistakes when you’re trying to win a championship. So, it’s too much to really expect a young player to have all that mastered. Some organizations can be patient with that…No, we can’t afford to go with a that type of guy at this point in time. He needs more seasoning…For me, you have to make sure you don’t get blinded by one asset, you have to look at the whole package.”
…this is why i am understanding of this trade…as i said then, i know the Mets are going to regret trading milledge, at least to the extent that he’ll be a pretty-good player one day…the thing is, the Mets will always be able to afford a corner outfielder who hits .280 with 15 HR and has speed…i like milledge, and wish he was still on the team, but i think we’re going to be pleasently suprised by church, especially on defense, which is something the Mets are putting a ton of value upon this season…and, let’s be honest, milledge’s defensive insticts in right field left a lot to be desired…plus, if as willie says, milledge isn’t really ready for crunch time, then the swap for church, who is seen as more stable and more fundamentally sound, makes sense…
…the thing is, if church makes the same mental mistakes as milledge, you can bet he will get pulled by willie too…what’s worse, as i have been saying since the trade occured, i do believe milledge will mature and grow beyond his current limitations in to an engaging, talented and exciting player…
…the point, though, is that, given the pressure to win now, the Mets were not willing to wait…
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Thank god a new post. Refreshing the page and seeing something from Sunday 1pm was killing me.
Ditto. Don’t even care what it was about.
I expect Church and Milledge to put up basically the same numbers this season but I’d much rather have Milledge, theres no question he has the brighter future.
I see Church as a dime a dozen guy. While I doubt he will set the world on fire….I similarly doubt he will do worse than last years number. In the end…trading Milledge for him was seen as an error because what cme back was not what the team was lacking….good relief pitching or starting pitching.
Milledge may end up being a stud or just another pretty good outfielder. Either way, we traded down. I see both Schneider and Church being gone before the end of next season. I could have seen Milledge around for a decade or more if he developed to 75% of his potential with us.
I wouldn’t call him a dime a dozen guy. 43 Doubles in 470 AB’s is pretty impressive. 107 K’s in that span isn’t as impressive.
I actually think that Church is a rarer commodity than he’s been given credit for. What other established (at least about 1000 ABs), starting-CF-caliber-defensive outfielders are out there who can put up his numbers for a minimal salary for the next four years? His numbers themselves could certainly be replaced on the FA market, but then we’d be using resources better directed elsewhere. We might, for instance, get similar production out of Fukudome, but that’s at least 10 mil a year for the next three or four years that won’t go towards starting pitching, the bullpen, etc. There are significant benefits to having Church other than just looking at his hitting numbers.
If he really does need to be a platoon player, I would guess that a disproportionate amount of the Ks came against lefties.
But, you are in a bind with that if you plan to PH for him late in games when a lefty comes in from the pen. You would lose D since Easley would be the only logical choice, and Endy is probably reserved for replacing Alou for defense.
That’s why they could use someone like nady.
Church is okay against lefties. He doesn’t strike out more against them, but his power drops off.
No. He’s not ok against lefties.
His career line against lefties is .254/.331/.392. Like I said, “okay”.
Theres no room for a Nady. The early signing of Easley caused that. Cant get rid of a pinch hitter like Anderson. Cant sacrifice the defense Chavez can give you and Gotay plays 2b, ss, and 3rd which Anderson and Easley cant do, and he can hit. There’s no place to put a right-handed hitting platoon outfielder on this roster.
I dunno. I think an inexperienced yet talented RF’er wasn’t going to make or break or year. I think there was/is something else to this. Probably his attitude.
Agreed.
It was the whole, we’re expecting one thing and we get this whole other thing.
perhaps the way he loafed after a ball in the corner allowing a triple instead of a double in a must win game rightfully turned the front office off as well…
A quibble. The way the team is consituted now, they really can’t pull him no matter what mistakes he makes. Unless, of course, you want to have Easley running around out there instead? Beltran’s quads started hurting just by me typing this!
They really do need another OF, a strong RH hitter that has some pop, plays acceptable D, and can also cover 1B decently. Basically, someone to replace Green, just RH. And better.
With Endy being the only legit spare OF, if you pulled Church for him, then you have no one left to cover for Alou if you need a D replacement, other than Easley or Anderson.
Unfortunately, the only way to get that RH OF is to probably dump Chavez, unless they are willing to eat Easleys contract? Unless, of course, they decide to go with a 6 man pen and keep the extra position player.
Might be the best idea, one less guy for Willie to keep track of!
Just seems that with Easley and Anderson you have 2 guys that are effectively PHs, and should spend little time out on the field. Just hard to carry 2 guys like that with a 5 man bench.
I disagree, both Easley and Anderson can play the OF when needed and be serviceable. As long as they don’t play CF then they are fine. Obivously I would love for Gotay to learn to play the OF, if not, it may be him that gets the minor league orders.
I look at them as OK on an emergency basis, but not for regular duty. Matt seems to imply that Church could be benched if he makes the types of mental mistakes that Lastings made.
Gotay is useful due to he ability to spell all the infield spots including ss and 3b which both guys need to get a blow occassionally.
Easley is a decent OF replacement but not simply in a platoon situation with Church. Only Nady makes some sense in my eyes for a platoon since he really raked LH pitching and he is at least avg in RF.
“You can’t make mistakes when you’re trying to win a championship.”
That’s funny coming from Willie. Pop quiz Willie, if you’re down by two in the 9th inning and you have man on 1st and 2nd, no outs with the bottom of the order up, what do you do?
That’s right, you hope for an extrabase hit to tie the game.
While you’re at it, learn to make a double switch, this is the NL.
Willie doesn’t make mistakes – he goes with his gut, which is right 99.999% of the time. The lone .001% is just a calculation error.
Yup, his gut told him to stay pat to allow the team to show him that their a championship team. In the process, we blew the biggest lead in baseball history.
His gut also told him not to rock the boat.
Team’s going into a tailspin and his gut told him not to rock the boat?
I really hope you realize all my comments here have been sarcastic.
I hate Willie’s tendency to chose his gut over statistical proof, amongst other obvious trends/factors.
you’re not going to get an extra base hit with the outfield in no doubles D (unless it’s a HR). Bottom of the 9th, I’d bunt the runners over, then take two shots at a blooper or a bleeder with pinch hitters.
Congratulations DAG!!!
You’re already a better manager than Willie!!!
Amazing. In the same thread where people take shots at Willie’s tendency to go by his guts over stats, people are advocating a strategy (bunting) which has been statistically proven to be unwise. Make up your minds.
This isn’t a black or white area. Sometimes you need to go with stats, othertimes it can be appropriate for a manager to use his gut (rarely).
In other words, whatever Willie does is wrong. Gotcha.
I definitely don’t think the Mets got a bad return for Milledge — ideally, they would have waited until they acquired a frontline SP so that they wouldn’t risk losing a necessary chip, but we don’t know if other teams were hot on Church’s trail (I doubt Schneider would’ve been taken by the time 2008 rolls around, but who knows) — the point is, there’s a lot we don’t know, and Omar got two talented players who will, with 100% certainty, help out in some way, shape, or form next year.
Exactly!!!!
I’ve said from day one that I don’t think Milledge will turn out to be much, but he’s a better trading chip than Church ever was. So, we lost.
Again, credit to original commentor, we took on 25% of the worst offense in baseball.
This is just an insult to our intelligence..
Ryan Chuch is not the difference, and they could of EASILY gotten a player on par with Church, WITHOUT trading Milledge
So you if wanna upgrade the OF to “win now” fine.. but why trade Milledge at .20 on the dollar to do so?
THAT is the problem with this ridiculous trade
100% right. The replacement guy in Church is acceptable next year b/c he likely will post the line that Milledge would have this year. The problem is Milledge will climb higher and had the potential to be our RF for years to come. I know they sold him too early (before he broke out) or too late (before the METS killed his value). Regardless…he was more useful to us than in a trade right now. That is what is most upsetting. I do not buy that we could not have used him this year because we were hunting a championship. That is nonsense. That is what a damn manager is for for g-ds sake!
Let see the “upside” of Milleadge? I saw a good hitter that acts like a high school kid on the professional ball field. Lets take note of all of the other supposedly “upside” outfielders the mets traded: Alex Ochoa, Carl Everett, and one other person who’s name eludes me at the time. SO WHAT they traded Milleadge. To me he seems to be someone that is going to be another Gary Sheffield, yes he “might” have the talent but Sheffield has been nothing but a headache for every team he played on. This trade is not going to make or break the Mets.
Church does seem to have talent, and was IIRC a pretty highly rated prospect too. It just seems to have taken him longer to put it all together.
Some guys are just like this. Byrnes was no spring chicken when he had his break out year.
So hopefully tis is the year that he steps up to the next level. Getting out of RFK and onto a better team can’t hurt! Just get nady or mench to spot him against the tougher lefties and let him go.
Not many guys at the age of 29/30 “take it to the next level”.. at least in the non juice ball era..
What you see if what we’ll get from Church.. he’ll be completey over matched against lefties, and taken out of games quite often.
If there is a win-now mentality throughout the organization, then I find it hard to believe that Ryan Church would be anyone’s first choice at the corner outfield position. There was certainly better to be had either via free agency or trade.
Who?
Im in the minority here but i liked the trade, I think Church will be good for us, great attitude, hustle and grit, things we’ve been searching for esp on this blog for a long time now. However, I don’t buy the “we need guys who can help us win now, we cant afford milledge to go through growing pains” crap. Reyes displayed many growing pains this past season and were not getting rid of him or we’d have Santana by now. Reyes went into a “slump” and basicly stopped playing baseball when we needed him the most. I like Church and think he and Schneider will be great for the ball club, but I loved Milledge too
hustle and grit?
hhmmm, didn’t see anything like that when I saw Mets v Nats
If we wanted hustle and grit we should have signed David Eckstein. Joe Morgan told me his intangibles are 2nd to none.
Or bring back Ty Wigginton.
Why does evey white player have ‘hustle and grit’? Its ridculous. Regardless, I think we’re going to be pleasantly surprised with Church, who I view as a late-bloomer ready to have a break-out year, like Eric Byrnes of Freddie Sanchez.
I did, I think he is a good player
That makes you one unique person.
I really just want next season to get here. I am curious though as to how many players onthe opening day roster are already with the team? There could actually be quite a bit of turnover still (the old “shake up” that so many posters crave).
The pen in particular could have a bunch of new (or different) faces. Of course 1 more rotation guy at least, and probably a back up OF/1B type.
That would be a fun contest. Pick the 25 man opening day roster. Whoever gets the most right wins an “in Omar we trust” T-shirt!
All I remember is Lastings carrying us for a short time right after the All-Star break when no one else was hitting.
As much as I like Willie, his comments sound pretty dumb. If he as a manager, can’t get one young guy to play hard and the right way he should be shown the door.
Because we know that youngsters can’t help win a championship, right Pedroia, Lester, Papelbon, Buchholz?
I don’t think Willie actually believes what he’s saying. He’s just glad he didn’t get fired and is parroting the team’s PR statements.
Regardless of what management did – I don’t think Willie liked or respected Milledge as a player.
Can’t blame him, an unproven player who doesn’t hustle and walks away when a superior addresses him.
and loafs after a ball in the corner to allow a triple instead of a double in an do or die must win game…
Or the contined swinging at beaking stuff off the plate in at-bat after at-bat…
Milledge just didn’t show development in the opportunities he did have.
That just can’t happen and Milledge should know better. He needs to learn he can’t rest on his laurels or his reputation as a very good prospect. At some point that potential has to be realized on the field and I just didn’t see that development happening. Not right now.
Church plays a good RF (better defensively than Green or Milledge) and his bat is pretty solid, though his power is alley rather than yard. Milz projects to more than 15 HRs/year, though. next year, playing every day, he should get 20 or so (even playing at RFK), and down the road he’s a 25-30 guy for sure.
All that said, I think Schneider was 50% of the value proposition for us in this deal. He’ll be the catcher for 60% of games, and his defense/game calling skills will be a big factor too.
I am wondering where the RH-hitting part of our RF platoon is coming from. Easley starting in right for 40% of our games is not a prescription for a world championship. He has other roles to fill for us as a super sub.
Can not be Easley. I think the RF platoon is not happening. I can see Easley occassionally providing him some relief but unless they trade Endy and find a way to get a Nady…I do not see that happening. If the Pirates asked us for FMART for Demaso Marte…what can we expect they ask us for Nady…..Pedro straight up?
I’m still confused as to what Willie’s idea of a winning attitude is. I was asking this all last year, and I have a feeling we will all be asking this question repeatedly over the next 10 months.
As for Milledge, what Willie was watching in 2007? Lastings was one of the few July/August contributors at a time when Willie’s ‘veterans’ were doing nothing. Lastings is already a very good player and had already proven the abilityto hit well in MLB. To ignore that fact just shows Willie’s stubborn tunnel vision approach to handling player personnel. With his recent comments, it’s almost as if Willie is using Milledge as a scapegoat to last season. Seriously…..Has Willie even come close to making similar disparaging comments about anyother player from last year’s team? Answer: No. Not even Mota!! That tells you something.
All this trade proves to me is that, once you are black-balled on a Willie Randolph squad….you are cooked. Willie was obviously NEVER going to change his opinion of Lastings, and that is why the kid is now gone. Fact is…no one contributed to the decline in Lasting’s market value more than Willie Randolph. It’s too early to tell, but if this trade blows up in their face, the Mets have no one to blame but themselves for getting little return.
As with Church…I see a big issue. I bet he will be great against righties, but the guy cannot hit lefties. And until we get another right-handed power bat to platoon in the OF, this lineup is going to be pretty damn weak against left handed pitching. Alou is the best hitter we have against southpaws, and he is good for 60% of the season at best. Other than Wright, who else is there?
I am not liking the OF depth right now. Gomez and Chavez are basically carbon copies of eachother (tools-wise) and as fillers should get 350 ABs combined. Marlon will get some PT as well. But with Alou certain to be injured and out 40% of the time, Beltran likely out 10-15% of the time, and Church sitting 40% of the time, there needs to be another piece to the OF puzzle that contirbutes 220+ right-handed ABs . Easley is not an OFer. And though he is a phenomenal athlete, Ben Johnson has proven very little thus far.
So we need a right-handed hitting corner OFer with some pop. Omar must find a near Nady-esque diamond in the rough, b/c this hand is not going to play for long. I honestly thought Johnson would be that guy, but that’s likely not the case. the thing is, we all knew Milledge was certainly that guy with the ability to beat you in many ways.
This trade was all about the emotion of a manager who knows what he doesn’t want, but can’t provide a clear vision as to what he DOES want. Dropping Milledge for another lefthanded OF bat and a catcher with little pop (.330 SLG!!!) is so much more about Willie’s ego and thin concept of a winning team, and far less about common sense. It’s now left a gaping hole in an imbalanced lineup.
And now we will all witness Lastings going .280/20/70 for DC next season. Place your bets.
Lastings also wasnt well liked by over half the clubhouse. You can only rub some people the wrong way for so long. He can now get his props for his homers in front of 8,000 instead of 45,000.
Where do you get that? Who represents half the clubhouse? Seriously…who are those names?
I understand if that was the case in 2006, but Milledge appeared to have cleaned up much of his act last year. I find it incredibly opportunistic for Willie to throw this guy under the bus after he has been traded, and use the “fans don’t see what we see” line. All it is is an attempt to justify a trade to a large portion of Mets fans that feel it was unjustly done.
Cleaned up huh? Not running out his own groundball and plenty of pop-ups. Not hustling after balls in the outfield. Waking the Marlins up on the next to last day of the season to “get his props” (his own words mind you) after a meaningless homerun. Which was a direct cause of that fight according to not only the Marlins but the Mets players as well. They were having trouble getting him to do what he was suppose to do when rehabbing his own injury. Everyone there loved his talent but his attitude had a lot to be desired.
Not running out his own groundball and plenty of pop-ups.
- you just described Jose Reyes over that same timeframe.
Not hustling after balls in the outfield.
- You just described every Met outfielder not named Chavez.
They were having trouble getting him to do what he was suppose to do when rehabbing his own injury.
- See “Duanar Sanchez”.
Waking the Marlins up on the next to last day of the season to “get his props” (his own words mind you) after a meaningless homerun.
- How is this any different from Reyes having a dance for every run scored by the team throughout the season?
- And from what I recall, it was also Reyes comments being misconstrued that caused that melee.
- We have now resorted to being concerned about inciting incidents that ‘wake up’ the Marlins. Now that is frightening. This is what we as Mets fans have become.
All those actions are no different from actions we have seen from other Mets. And during last year’s collapse, I don’t ever recall a finger being pointed at Milledge at all for the team’s lack of fire and discipline.
Simply stated…Milledge is a Randolph scapegoat. A scapegoat that was far from being the real problem with this team.
And I’m still waiting for those clubhouse names.
Try every coach. Delgado, Beltran, Alou, Easley, Green, Wright, Glavine, Wagner, Heilman, Valentine (before his injury), Feliciano, Chavez, LoDuca. Those are the ones connected to not appreciating his attitude. His problems were mentioned all throughout last year. Here’s a question. Why are you the only one defending his attitude? No one else seems to be. For every complaint about him you have a player thats done the same. Problem is that those players only did that one thing. Your boy Milledge has done them all and that “get my props” thing went beyond the little dance thing. No team started a fight over those dances now did they? I’m not so concerned about the fight that woke up the Marlins as to the million dollar body but ten cent brain of the guy who caused it. Willie isnt the greatest manager of all time, far from it. I’m not defending him, he has a long way to go when it comes to game strategy. But he is an old fashion one, who demands a player to play the right way. He gave a little on Reyes because he usually plays hard everyday. He probably didnt see that from Milledge and no matter what anyone says, if Omar didnt see what Willie saw, he would still be here. GM’s dont give away talented ballplayers just on the managers say so. So there was something else there other then Willie.
“Other roles to fil?”
Sure, maybe as a conservative Christian Jew hater. Great fit for a New York outfield position.
I’ll find it very hard to root for this guy. He apologized yes, but apologizing for a comment that makes you sound like a bigot, doesn’t make you sound any less like a bigot.
Milledge continued to make the same (baseball) mistakes over and over (not hustling, swinging at horrible breaking pitches) and showed little sign that he was correcting his mistakes, which made him a hard guy to root for. Church made one (non-baseball) mistake, apologized for it, and has not repeated it. IMO unless it comes to light at some point in the future that he has continued his bigoted thinking, the guy who admitted the error, apologized for it and didn’t repeat it is the easier guy to root for
and what was his comment?
Wow, do you think that the majority of guys in the majors are wonderful off the field? Everyone of them has made a stupid comment at some point, and there’d be precious few that would fit my criteria of perfect citizen. Jeez, Mike Piazza said that Rush Limbaugh was like George Washington or something to that effect, but I still love Mike for his on-field stuff. Church can never, ever make it up I guess, and everyone is as bad as the worse thing they’ve ever done or said. Makes us all worth two-bits. So be it. But he did apologize, which according to this post’s even logic makes it worse. But I’d be careful throwing around “Jew hater”–those are strong words, and inappropriate considering what he actually said. I think he learned from it, and playing in NYC will no doubt hear about it every time he takes the field. And if you’re against conservative Christians–most of whom probaby share the sentiments Church used in a question about his jewish girlfriend– you won’t have many ballplayers left to root for (for the record, I’m not a conservative christian, and my wife is jewish, and I happen to believe that we’re not as bad as the worse thing we do or say).
9movaugns reaction is exactly why issues like these get blown out or proportion. All based on emotion without little regard to accuracy or the context of the comments stated. Then it unfortunaely escalates to name-calling.
No where in any of the reports does it state or prove that Church is A) a jew hater, or B) conservative. But when overly emotional and easily offended individuals (who, unfortunately reside in our media as well), get a hold of a comment like Church’s, they shape it in any way that suites their socio-political opinion in the manner, and start throwing out labels and broad assumptions. I can understand how Church’s comments are offensive to some, but for those offended to completely lose their minds and brand him as a ‘conservative christian jew-hater’ shows absolutely zero intellect. It’s incredible how it is so fashionably trendy to be offended in our society nowadays, and to voice your reaction an any way you see fit.
Facts are, every major religion believes that it holds the truth to the after-life. Chrisitans are no different, and Church’s comments only reveal his understanding of the New Testement doctrine. He was answering a question.
And his comments certainly have nothing to do with his ability to play baseball in NY. His god could either be Allah, Christ, Buddha, or Elvis….it still won’t help him hit better against lefties.
Green is the worst OF. Remember the 3 triples that went his way in 06 NLCS?
I had blocked it out, but now I do.
Sorry, I need to learn to block out some horrific memories.
Funny thing, I wonder if Carlos Gomez is as fast as he looks, cause compared with Shawn Green in RF, it wouldn’t take much to look like a gazelle out there.
I just hope we keep Gomez long enough to test that. Omar loves him, so I figure both him and F-mart will be here unless a star pitcher becomes available.
I was standing in that corner of the outfield that friday night and saw the one ball glance off his glove. Then I looked up at the TV monitors near the Dunken Donuts and saw it again and again. SO after having to witness it live and then see it repeated on screen as an imminently catch-able ball I can say it haunts me still.
I don’t mind church, I just think a simliar OF could’ve been had via FA, while we used Milledge as a piece to trade for a pitcher.
Check out Church’s umbers at Shea, boy kills it. Only 25 AB’s but near the top among other away stadiums. Dude gets amped by NY.
Yes, it is interesting to note how successful Church and Schneider were against the Mets during the last week of 2007.
Clearly Omar noticed.
Unfortunately, you either have to trade Milledge or you fire Willie. If Church can give us 50 doubles in 500 AB’s, I would say this was at least an equal trade.
Milledge’s talent did not out-weigh his attitude. Lastings needs to wake up and see that he can’t just get by with only his quick batspeed. His defense was subpar, he didn’t utilize his speed on the basepaths and he didn’t show he can learn to lay off the offspeed stuff away.
So Church needs to break the franchise mark for doubles by 6 next year in order for him to be equal to a guy that needs to change his plate discipline, utilize his speed better, who plays subpar defense?
You lost me.
I like the trade. It will be awesome to have a catcher like Schneider behind the plate. And Church will do fine in RF. I think someone like Nady would be a welcome addition to the roster, and wouldn’t require trading Endy to do it. Trading Endy talk is almost as rediculous as trading Reyes. Endy is a fan favorite too!
Being a fan favorite doesn’t have much on whether or not you get traded.
Absolutely right, just ask Xavier Nady.
First of all, Nady and Milledge don’t even deserve to be considered a “fan favorite” in the same sense as Endy. The “catch” will live in infamy for many years, and everyone loves Endy, you can’t say that about Nady (who was traded for Oliver Perez), nor Milledge, who many people, myself included, don’t really care was traded. I’m excited to have a good defensive catcher, and to aquire a catcher like we did, all while replacing any production we’d have gotten out of Milledge this year, makes tons of sense IMO.
I respect your opinion but I must say that EVERY female Met fan that I know expressed immediate displeasure upon Nady’s being traded away. He was certainly a “fan favorite” among them.
Also, I do recall a lineup lacking right handed hitting in key spots in the postseason and many people male and female lamenting that Nady wasn’t in the lineup.
So 22yr old Lastings is not allowed to make mistakes but it is OK for the manager to learn on the job? Makes sense.
In my opinion Willie the Gut should just keep his mouth shut. He has zero credibilty in my book. This is a man who absolutely refused to give Milledge a chance to play, was at least partly responsible for some of the negative press that ultimately hurt his percieved trade value. Willie would rather play Marlon Anderson if CF than give Lasting a chance to play. The man is so stupid he wanted to bat D.Wright 8th! It is called being a moron! Part of the reason we have so many old players on the roster and in AAA is that the current management of this team is not capable of teaching or nuturing the younger players that we have. So we rely on OLD Duque, Julio Franco, Jose Lima, Carlos Delgado, etc. The bottom line for me is Willie the Gut likes to toot his own horn, just like Omar. Don’t you feel sorry for both of them? I do not! Willie is not qualified to manage the Mets, in fact his brings us down not up. Fire Willie Randolph! Lets Go Mets!
That’s the biggest problem with NY and the big market. Omar and Willie have to WIN NOW, because they are both fired if they don’t win this year. Damn the torpedos full steam ahead has to be the motto when the blame is going to fall on your head. Screw the future, because, in reality, that will be someone else’s problem
“Screw the future, because, in reality, that will be someone else’s problem”
Feel like i just signed into a political blog…
I’ll wait and see on Church. I think he may help us some this year but agree we traded away some future potential but should be able to find decent corner OFs in future. Losing Lastings was tough but I think they had issues with his attitude and showboating which I never liked either. Enthusiasm is great but it can’t go overboard especially when you are young.
No, we can’t afford to go with a that type of guy at this point in time. He needs more seasoning…For me, you have to make sure you don’t get blinded by one asset, you have to look at the whole package.”
Yeah, more seasoning! You mean like… sitting and hanging out on the bench losing AB’s to Shawn Green? Is that the type of seasoning he needs?
You can’t judge the whole package if you don’t have any real sample to determine it off of.
Willie’s a clown.
You, know it’s funny. I don’t ever recall you being down on Willie. I wasn’t one to be too down on Willie either. But I am completely in the same boat as you. Willie is a clown. He’s dillusional.
After last season, Willie IS THE LAST person that should be preaching winning philosophy to his fan-base. To me, he is considered a loser until he proves to us otherwise. And that is the thing that irks me the most about him right now. It’s almost as if he feels we have no right to quesiton his philosophy or not trust him. He is still carrying himself with a sense of entitlement b/c his resume shows that he played and coached on championship teams. It’s that BS Yankee arrogance that may pay dividends for him in the Bronx, but means absolute crap in Queens.
And he will NEVER understand that.
While I’m certainly not happy with every decision that Willie makes, i have to take exception with:
“he is considered a loser until he proves to us otherwise.”
In his 18 year major league career he played on 3 teams with losing records: ‘82 Yanks; ‘89 Dodgers; and the ‘92 Mets which were clearly the worst of the bunch. Also in the 3 seasons he’s managed he’s never had a team with a losing record. You can call that “BS Yankee arrogance” if you wish, I call it winning.
As a Met fan it kills me to type this, but if I have to put the “loser” tag on something and my choices are A) Willie Randolph or B)The Mets, I ain’t taggin’ Willie
So after being outmanaged by LaRussa in 2006, and managing over the worst collapse in recent history last year…you are still willing to call Willie a winner?
interesting.
I’m looking at an entire body of work, you’re looking at one series and 3 weeks.
interesting.
What a great point Willie… We can’t afford to have our number eight hitter be a young 22 year old with a little bit of seasoning, but lets go throw out Oliver Perez in game 7 of the NLCS. Milledge is a pretty good defensive player, regardless of what you say. He is a natural center fielder, so the switch from center-field just takes time. This trade accomplished absolutely nothing, because it is not as if we were a Ryan Church away from being a championship team. Or a better right-field defense away from being a championship team. This trade in no way improves the Mets ability to make it to the World Series. The only way that will happen is if the pitching is improved. To say a team can’t contend for a championship with Lastings Milledge as their eighth hitter is just embarrassing and not true. And oh yea, good thing the Red Sox didn’t use Ellsbury in the playoffs, I mean the guy really needed some seasoning. Everyone knows young guys can’t help you win championships. Oh wait a second…
Fire Willie. Fire Omar. Cannot beleive how my opinion of these two have changed over the past year. If anyone thinks Willie’s comments are reasonable needs to get their head checked. Basically he is saying he’d rather throw out lesser talent because we can’t afford to have a rookie starting while we are persuing a championship. Most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. Have fun being someones bench coach Willie, because you’ll probably never manage again.
I think Milledge will have the same kind of career as Jay Payton. They’re very similar ball players with similar skill sets and similar hype as prospects. While Jay Payton is a fine player and I liked him a lot when he was on the Mets, getting Church and Schneider for a “Young Jay Payton” isn’t such a bad deal. Milledge may end up fulfilling more of his potential than Jay, but who knows and they Mets are in “Win Now!” mode . . .
Here’s the problem.. I have not heard any satisfactory answer as to how the Church/Schnieder move help us to win now. Lastings was immature.. he’s 22 yrs old. Getting older in RF isn’t helping us win now when the ‘help’ can’t hit left handed pitching. Our offense does not get better adding Schneider and Church. Period. These are two mediocre bats for 1 mediocre bat with upside. I’d rather see Millz in the 8th spot than Church/Schnieder in 7th/8th.. This trade was Willie basically giving up on a 22yr old kid with great talent, and its an embarrassment. Willie should have been fired after last year. He is a disgrace to this uniform and I feel betrayed by both he and Omar. The only saving grace is that both will be gone after next year god willing. Unfortunately, it will be after a lackluster 3rd place finish in the NL east. Good Riddence.
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It’s less deluding, and more a defense mechanism to prevent us all from collapsing into depression.
+1
Even more stupid
Wolverine is right. Got rid of a guy with a million dollar body but with a ten cent brain. Potential gets you nowhere. You got a solid rightfielder with smarts who’ll give you good offensive numbers and is definetly an improvement over last years rightfielder. You also got a good defensive catcher who was brought in to help the pitchers who couldnt hold anybody on. We seemed to have forgotten that aspect of our pitching staff. You guys keep talking like Church is the only one they got in this trade. Yeah, a few years down the line Milledge might be something but the Mets need consistency now. Sometimes I wonder about you guys. Who was it who said that Piazza should of got a big signing bonus because of his potential and others like him too? Let me remind that person that Piazza was taken in the last round, behind 700 some odd others, as a first baseman, and only because he was related to Tommy LaSorda. You want to jump on Omar, jump on him for signing Easley too early because he’s cluttering up the roster spot of a right-handed hitting outfielder/first baseman that might have been a platoon with Church.