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…well, over the last day or so, i have talked with essentially the same group of people that i normally do, who are connected to and have knowledge of what the Mets are up to, and the sense i get is that while the team still feels confident 
in their ability to acquire Johan Santana, people around santana currently think the Red Sox are back to being the front-runners…which makes me wonder if Boston recently stepped up their offer to the Twins…also, from what i can gather, the Rangers are the third team in this mix, not the Yankees, Mariners or Angels, but i do not believe they have much of a chance to get him anyway…
…at any rate, if there is a sticking point with the Mets, again, as i said over the weekend, it could be that santana wants a seven-year deal, and the Mets remain uncomfortable with that sort of contract for a pitcher…also, despite agreeing and understanding that the Jose Reyes-caliber player is off the table, yet any other player can be had, the Twins now suddenly want more or less every single pitching prospect the Mets have…seriously…last weekend, when i relayed the phrase, ‘the Mets are willing to flood the Twins with prospects,’ i took that to mean two top-pitchers, two top-outfielders, and a player like Aaron Heilman…now though, while i have not heard any specific names mentioned, it is sounding to me like the Twins want Carlos Gomez, Mike Pelfrey, Philip Humber and Kevin Mulvey, among others…so, basically, the Twins want the whole lot…and the Mets are reluctant to do so, and i can’t say i blame them, especially if they are having reservations about such a long-term contract…
…nevertheless, people connected to the Mets still seem positive, though i keep hearing that they’ll continue to ‘monitor the situation,’ which hardly invokes confidence from me…at the same time, people around santana, who prefers to pitch for the Mets, are back to seeing Boston as a likely destination…so, there is a definite disconnect there, which i am having very a difficult time figuring out…what really drives my crazy, speaking as a fan who badly wants to see santana end up in queens, is that every conversation i have had, no matter who it is, always ends the same, which is with, ‘well, you never know, things could certainly change.’…ugh…no kidding…
…by the way, this is why i never got in to investigative journalism…i’m a writer who blogs his experience about being a Mets fan, which now happens to include conversations with people who tend to know what’s up on the inside of this organization…and so i write about it…that said, i’m not going out of my way to research a story…i prefer to just sit back and watch it develop…at the same time, when people contact me, or talk, i listen…and then i write…so, if my account of minaya’s pursuit comes off as flip-floppy, or running in circles, that’s because it is…
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I would be pleasantly surprised if Santana ends up on the Mets. I’m not expecting it however.
If Boston is back as the frontrunner, that probably means they’ve indicated a willingness to include both Buckholz and Ellsbury. I don’t think the Mets can compete with that. The only silver lining would be if Santana realizes he doesn’t want to pitch in the AL East and puts the kaibosh on the deal (highly unlikely).
Dude, there’s no way the Sox give up Buccholz alone, let alone with Ellsbury. If the Sox are the front runners it probably means that they’re either giving up Lester, Crisp, and 3 high ceiling prospects or Ellsbury and 3 or 4 similar high ceiling prospects.
Why would the Red Sox ever give up 2 of Lester, Ellsbury, Buccholz if the Yanks aren’t offering Kennedy and Hughes and their primary compeition is the Mets who are willing to give up 4 or 5 guys, none of whom are as good as Lester, Ellsbury, or Buccholz?
If anyone really thinks a deal like that can actually happen…you are all so friggin out of your mind it is ridiculous. Worse…according to the poll you have going…more than half would do the deal and cripple the entire franchise for one pitcher.
You realize that this is not a player who is cheap or under control for more than a year (I realize you are getting a window to negotiate your deal). He is all but gone from the Twins no matter what. in 12 months, he is free to sign anywhere and all it costs you is one first round draft pick and money.
No team in their right mind would trade all 3 relatively close pitching prospects, 1 well thought of but A ball pitcher, one ML dominant set up man, and the teams best outfield prospect for one CY Young winning pitcher.
He throws his glove on the field 34 times a season at best. That means you go to war without this guy for 128 other games. Plus you eliminate yourselves from any future trades for the next year or likely 2 and have no depth from which to assist the big club in the outfield where you are certain to have at least one need coming up in LF. Also, you have to think about 1b in the near future and the reality that next year, Pedro, OP and Duque are all free to hit the road leaving you a rotation of just Johan Santana and Maine.
Forget it
and you have NO protection against injuries in the pitching rotation. What happens if Pedro and El Duque go down at the same time? Trading all those guys for one player is the case of making a trade to make a trade. It is irresponsible and just plain stupid.
That’s how you end up with Chan Ho and Brina Lawrence in the rotation. At the same time.
I’d agree if I thought anyone we are giving up is that good. If the list included F-Mart our only real prospect it would be a different story. From what we have seen so far from the people mentioned nothing has impressed me and clearly no one else in baseball thats why the redsox have the advantage. Pelfrey and humber will be a steve trachsel types. Gomez will be very replaceable as a .270 w/ 10 hr guy, Mulvey and Guerra are the only wildcards and a risk I would take.
Johan is the prize and the guy that makes us contenders year in and year out. If even one of the guys we send to Twins pans out they will be lucky. we know what we are getting they dont. The mets are not the Royals - we have money and will be able to attract FA’s. Without Santana I think we take a big step back especially considering the rest of the NL east.
I agree with you gwg … if anyone would trade all of that for Santana - who will cost a ton anyway - I have two words for you: Herschel Walker.
Also, if Santana really wants to play for the Mets, why not reject the trade, wait a year, and get tons of cake from the Mets? I know one year is another year with the possibility of injury, but if he “really” wanted to come to the NL and NY, I would think he would chance it.
I don’t believe the hype.
Please everyone, come off it. There is NO reasonable trade for Johan. While I would love to see him in our rotation also, that isn’t the number one concern with the Mets and you all are thinking way too wishfully.
After all, let us not forget the horrific April David had, or the first half Delgado had. Had either one of those two performed like they are supposed to perform to let us win one or two more games, then then we hit the playoffs and no one is complaining about the rotation.
And to all of you Maine and OP haters, bear in mind there is a whole winter for them to develop and no one can honestly say that they think those two guys will be bad next year.
Personally I am in favor for a bullpen upgrade and I hate to quote Steve Philips but a solid pen can get you 2-3 wins a week, an Ace can only get you a win once every 5 games (at best!) So any trade involving Heliman should be erased, and I can’t see Minnesota wanting to trade Johan w/o Heliman in the package.
So quit hassling about Johan because you all know it will never happen, and if it does for the Mets, it will be a 6 player swap leaving the franchise burnt to the ground in the coming seasons.
“Gomez will be very replaceable as a .270 w/ 10 hr guy”
most scouts say gomez will be a 280is 30/30 guy, with gold glove defense and a cannon for an arm, some even say 30/50. But I believe you, and youre amazing scouting report on him. Thats like me saying, Colby Rasmus is nothing but a .270 10 hr guy. But then again, you are ignorant so you probably dont even know rasmus. Also, you dont know martinez either you just read about him so u say his name like your cool , and pretend to actually know something. One could make the arguement that 6 years of Gomez cheap is not even worth Santana for one year straight up. I would make that arguement.
“Without Santana I think we take a big step back especially considering the rest of the NL east.”
Yeah, that makes sense, we stay the same, nobody in the NL East with the possible exception of washington gets bettrer, but we take a step back. How do you stupid monkeys justify the things you say. Do you actually just repeat them until you believe this absolute garbage is true? The braves traded renteria and Smoltz and Chipper are a year older, they lost Andruw. Theyre not better. The Phillies go a nice close but lost a lot of big time production from their 07 CF. They didt get better. The Mets have a full year of Pedro instead of Glavine. We will say thats a wash, which is being polite. We upgraded big time at catcher, regardless of what some of the monkeys who dont understand the sport will tell you. We also upgraded big time at RF from last year, and it stings losing Milledge, but he is like 3 or 4x more valuable playing center, where he is much better. Church posted a 500 slg this year vs righties, but most dont even know what tht means so they call hima platooner. His numbers vs right hand pitching was better then every player on the Mets last year besided Wright and Beltran. We upgraded green and lo duca, and we upgrade pedro over glavine. Yup though, we are petty much already done in the division. Lets just cancel the season.
Well, here’s what they are saying in Minneapolis:
Latest Johan Santana Rumors
Joe Christensen of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune has the latest buzz surrounding the Johan Santana trade talks.
The Red Sox and Twins talked yesterday, and the Twins are leading toward Jacoby Ellsbury rather than Jon Lester. Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson would also be included, and the sides are trying to figure out a fourth player.
The Yanks and Twins haven’t talked much lately, but apparently Kei Igawa’s name has come up in the talks. He can’t have much trade value in the Twins’ eyes.
Christensen implies that the Mets might be trying to finish second here, staying involved for the sake of PR.
Christensen also notes that the Twins are fond of Jered Weaver, and the Angels could jump in if they decide to use their trade chips on another starter.
Also, the idea of the Twins including another player on their end has come up. In the past Joe Nathan has been mentioned, but Christensen is referring more to Twins’ prospects. They don’t have much in the system though.
I give the mets brass kudos for not letting the twins hold them hostage. Three pitching prospects with the option of Heilman instead of one of them plus either Gomez or Martinez is fair. Twins want a fourth pitcher or both outfield prospects? No…. Have to walk away from that, enough is enough…..
It may be time for the Mets to 1) send out some smoke signals to Santana that they are willing to back up the Brinks truck (not that they are, just saying as a fan, $$$$ are meaningless to me); 2) hope Santana forces the Twins hand by saying he really isn’t interested in signing a contract with anyone else; 3) take a play out of Hankenstein’s handbook, put together a reasonable package (no more than 3 top prospects and a low level guy with upside) and set a deadline. My guess is fans would respect that and move on if it didn’t happen.
At least the mets would show some backbone for a change.
All that said, I keep feeling that if the Yankees unload Matsui, they sign a FA CFer (I hate the lame buzz, but I read this morning they have interest in Corey Patterson) and include Kennedy (and all of his 19 Major League innings) for Johan.
just saying as a fan, $$$$ are meaningless to me
If the Mets overpay financially for Santana, say $25M/year for 6 years, how will the Mets not use that as an excuse to jack up ticket prices for 2008 and beyond (moreso than they normally would)?
I know the Wilpons have multiple revenue streams from Sterling Mets, but that doesn’t mean they won’t use a big dollar sigining as an excuse to raise prices under the rationale that people will pay more to see a big name.
Luckily I live in SF, so ticket prices at Citifield have no bearing on me. Also, and more luckily, when I go to games, they are usually coporate seats, freebies.
And it is all supply and demand! $4 a gallon for gas, $10 beers. If I can’t afford it, I’ll buy a Prius and drink Schlitz at home.
Nice ballpark you have out there.
But for those of us who live in New York and can attend games at Shea/Citifield, big dollar contracts will have a bearing on us.
So $$$$ are meaningful to me, as a NY-based fan. That said, I would rather the Wilpons overpay in $$$$ rather than empty the farm system for Santana. But if no one is willing to pay $25M/year, the Wilpons should hold firm, especially if Santana has really indicated a preference to play for the Mets.
Isn’t it all relative?
I mean, who cares what your ticket prices are if the team sucks? I have a full-season package, and I hear what you are saying about the prices.
However, I am more apt to pay a bit more for my tickets if it means picking up a stud, top of the rotation pitcher than I am to be happy about my already over-priced tickets to see a mediocre team.
I agree. I have a Tues/Fri package and would gladly pay a bit more if it means Santana would be on the Mets.
As I said below, I was just pointing out that a big dollar contract will have an impact upon us NY-based fans, so the dollars are not meaningless to me.
sorry to jack this thread…i’m waiting on my renewal so i can upgrade to full season…anyone gotten theirs?
I haven’t. They are probably waiting to see how the offseason turns out before making any decisions on ticket prices for 2008.
They’re going to jack up the prices anyway. They research the threshold to which fans will pay and beyond which fans will not pay, then they maximize the price to which the most dollars can be made. Whether they get Santana, they are jacking up ticket prices to meet this threshold.
Right, but a big dollar contract for Santana would justify an even larger increase in ticket prices than they normally would do (e.g., a 6-8% increase with Santana rather than a 4% increase without).
I’m not saying this in the hope that the Wilpons will be frugal. I’m just mentioning it in reaction to multiple postings from several people saying (in effect) “who cares how much it costs to get Santana?” There will be an impact on ticket prices (and probably at the concession stands) for those of us attending games at Shea/Citifield.
How do you think investors in the other business lines of Sterling would feel if Wilpon took profits from them to pay for Johan Santana? Come on.
i agree, but you know he’s not gonna do it. he’s gonna continue to just get used by the twins.
And that is exactly what is happening here. With the Yankees apparently out of the picture for the time being, the Twins can’t afford to lose the Mets. This would leave the Red Sox at the table negotiating against themselves. Then they would have no reason to give up Bucholtz and Ellsbury.
Johan’s desire to play for the Mets is only helping the Twins keep them involved so that they can more out of Boston.
Maybe this is a dumb question, but if Santana has a preference on where he wants to pitch, why wouldn’t he just tell the Twins, “Trade me to the Mets [or whoever] or I won’t sign a contract extension and will just become a free agent next year and go where I want?” I gotta assume that if he had a strong preference he would do that.
I think a trade to any team is contingent upon a 72 hour window to negotiate a long term deal with Santana.
But, what if he pitches in Minnesota this year and gets injured or has a horrible year? That’s a lot of money to lose.
The Mets have no shot at Santana because they will never pay what it takes to get him. It would take a serious change in thinking about giving a pitcher a greater contract than 4 or 5 years and the Mets are unwilling to do that. Anyone that thinks they would are deluding themselves. So enough about this Santana nonsense. It’s not happening.
according to todays rumors on SI.com the Red Sox are offering two seperate deals, one including Ellsbury & others and one including Lester & others, i don’t see how they’ve stepped up their offer
I can see it now…Omar bashing will commence soon….
In 3…2…1…