Comments on: Note: Milledge and Lo Duca in DC http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/ MetsBlog.com features the latest Mets rumors, player movement, and news circulating around the Internet, as well as Mets related insights and opinions by Matthew Cerrone and his team of guest bloggers. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:41:19 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: VCarver http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61866 VCarver Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:15:18 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61866 I think some are born with BOTH an ability to throw 100 mph and a high pitching IQ. IOW, the innate smarts to know how to pace yourself. What if someone told Burgos to pace himself? What if he just ignored them? Oh well, it's too late. His value is zilch now. Nice job, Omar. I think some are born with BOTH an ability to throw 100 mph and a high pitching IQ. IOW, the innate smarts to know how to pace yourself.

What if someone told Burgos to pace himself? What if he just ignored them? Oh well, it’s too late. His value is zilch now. Nice job, Omar.

]]> By: VCarver http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61858 VCarver Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:11:14 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61858 Excuse me? You are simply wrong in thinking the caliber of a team has a significant impact on multi-year park factors. Wrong. The fact of the matter, peripheral stats can be affected by park factors. And, IMO, BABIP is a bunch of cr@p (generally speaking). I don't give a damn where he was on the Mets depth chart. Don't you understand? If he was undervalued by the Mets brass, which apparently he was, that's part of the problem. Your reason is thus circular. He pitched in a more difficult division for a pitcher than the NL east. It's often harder to pitch for a crappier team than a good one. . The only ones who will be amazed if he amounts to more than a #5 is the Omar apologists. Excuse me? You are simply wrong in thinking the caliber of a team has a significant impact on multi-year park factors. Wrong. The fact of the matter, peripheral stats can be affected by park factors. And, IMO, BABIP is a bunch of cr@p (generally speaking).

I don’t give a damn where he was on the Mets depth chart. Don’t you understand? If he was undervalued by the Mets brass, which apparently he was, that’s part of the problem. Your reason is thus circular.

He pitched in a more difficult division for a pitcher than the NL east. It’s often harder to pitch for a crappier team than a good one. . The only ones who will be amazed if he amounts to more than a #5 is the Omar apologists.

]]> By: VCarver http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61844 VCarver Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:05:54 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61844 In the minors, especially for a reliever (whose ERA can be skewed), peripherals such as K rate are often more important. Lindstrom's K rate was terrific. In the minors, especially for a reliever (whose ERA can be skewed), peripherals such as K rate are often more important. Lindstrom’s K rate was terrific.

]]> By: VCarver http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61835 VCarver Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:01:30 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61835 Andrew Miller was a first round pick who has good minor league numbers, but his major league numbers are awful. IMO, Maybin was the key to that deal. Miller and Willis are basically a wash -- 2 pitchers whose most recent stats were not pretty in the majors. If you ask me, the Tigers got the better end of that deal. So I'm not sure what relevance Miller has to the discussion. As for Maine, he was a last minute throw-in to the Julio deal. How is he relevant to the discussion? Benson's value was marginal since he put up mediocre numbers, was often injured, did not have the stamina to pitch near 200 innings, and was due to make $15M+ over the next 2 years. Andrew Miller was a first round pick who has good minor league numbers, but his major league numbers are awful. IMO, Maybin was the key to that deal. Miller and Willis are basically a wash — 2 pitchers whose most recent stats were not pretty in the majors.

If you ask me, the Tigers got the better end of that deal. So I’m not sure what relevance Miller has to the discussion.

As for Maine, he was a last minute throw-in to the Julio deal. How is he relevant to the discussion? Benson’s value was marginal since he put up mediocre numbers, was often injured, did not have the stamina to pitch near 200 innings, and was due to make $15M+ over the next 2 years.

]]> By: coldentoshea76 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61677 coldentoshea76 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:37:34 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61677 For something that's supposed to be "stating the obvious," this is oddly ambiguous and confusing... Do you mean "skills" in a general sense? In that case, doesn't that qualification make the whole "team" issue moot? Are you suggesting that you would be happy with unskilled players from good teams? If not, how is that any different from just saying that we want the most skilled players regardless of their team, which was my entire point in the first place? Do you mean that you don't want any players from bad teams unless they're star players? In that case, I can just use other obvious examples. Are you suggesting that you wouldn't want James Shields as a fourth or fifth starter? Brandon Phillips as our second baseman? Matt Capps for the bullpen? You would turn these non-stars down just because they played for bad teams? Are you only talking about the general skills of these specific players? Even if you think that Milledge has more upside than he's being given credit for (which is, i think, a very reasonable argument), clearly, for 2008, Church has more "skills" on defense and against a wider range of pitching (having trouble against lefties does not equal having trouble against righties, of whom there are many more, and breaking pitches), and Schneider has more "skills" than LoDuca on defense and in getting on base. Even if you don't think these skills are worth trading Milledge, you can't really deny that they're there.... For something that’s supposed to be “stating the obvious,” this is oddly ambiguous and confusing…

Do you mean “skills” in a general sense? In that case, doesn’t that qualification make the whole “team” issue moot? Are you suggesting that you would be happy with unskilled players from good teams? If not, how is that any different from just saying that we want the most skilled players regardless of their team, which was my entire point in the first place?

Do you mean that you don’t want any players from bad teams unless they’re star players? In that case, I can just use other obvious examples. Are you suggesting that you wouldn’t want James Shields as a fourth or fifth starter? Brandon Phillips as our second baseman? Matt Capps for the bullpen? You would turn these non-stars down just because they played for bad teams?

Are you only talking about the general skills of these specific players? Even if you think that Milledge has more upside than he’s being given credit for (which is, i think, a very reasonable argument), clearly, for 2008, Church has more “skills” on defense and against a wider range of pitching (having trouble against lefties does not equal having trouble against righties, of whom there are many more, and breaking pitches), and Schneider has more “skills” than LoDuca on defense and in getting on base. Even if you don’t think these skills are worth trading Milledge, you can’t really deny that they’re there….

]]> By: thrilledge 4 prez http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61596 thrilledge 4 prez Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:55:11 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61596 maybe vargas had such a good rookie year because Lo Duca was catching him. Willis, mota, and vargas all seemed to have good years with paulie behind the plate. Include maine and perez to that this year. I think he calls a better game for young pitchers than people think. Who has schneider turned into a 15+ game winner at a young age? NOBODY!!!!!! LETS GO NATS.....I MEAN METS!!...(i think?) maybe vargas had such a good rookie year because Lo Duca was catching him. Willis, mota, and vargas all seemed to have good years with paulie behind the plate. Include maine and perez to that this year. I think he calls a better game for young pitchers than people think. Who has schneider turned into a 15+ game winner at a young age? NOBODY!!!!!!

LETS GO NATS…..I MEAN METS!!…(i think?)

]]> By: Scorp6 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61574 Scorp6 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:47:07 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61574 For the record, people like me would prefer to have a better balance of veterans and younger players. We have evolved into a bunch of senior citizens (Moses, Old Duque..) with a group of core players D. Wright, Reyes and Beltran. My bigger problem is that we have a manager who despises younger players, and Lastings Milledge in particular. If Willie Randolph was such a professional why even bother to attemp to throw Milledge under the bus? Be a man or be a better person, don't be vicious and try to hurt a 22yo kid further than you already have. It was another Willie the Gut moment when he refused to accept any blame or responsibility for the lack of controll or motivation of the players on the team. What does Willie try to do? Blame the kid. In my opinion Willie was wrong, and he deserves any and all critisism thrown his way! Lets Go Mets! For the record, people like me would prefer to have a better balance of veterans and younger players. We have evolved into a bunch of senior citizens (Moses, Old Duque..) with a group of core players D. Wright, Reyes and Beltran. My bigger problem is that we have a manager who despises younger players, and Lastings Milledge in particular. If Willie Randolph was such a professional why even bother to attemp to throw Milledge under the bus? Be a man or be a better person, don’t be vicious and try to hurt a 22yo kid further than you already have. It was another Willie the Gut moment when he refused to accept any blame or responsibility for the lack of controll or motivation of the players on the team. What does Willie try to do? Blame the kid. In my opinion Willie was wrong, and he deserves any and all critisism thrown his way! Lets Go Mets!

]]> By: tonylett http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61572 tonylett Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:46:49 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61572 Thank you too! If in the end all you can get for a guy who was your #1 prospect ayear ago and didn't get hurt and is still a kid is a very good defensive catcher at the end of his prime and a 4th OFer who was never a big prospect from a losing team, then YOU DON't TrADE HIM!!! You give him a legit chance to play everyday!! Could his value have dropped anymore?? I dont see it. Maybe there are character issues BUT this kid aint Elija Dukes or Josh Hamilton! Thank you too!
If in the end all you can get for a guy who was your #1
prospect ayear ago and didn’t get hurt and is still a
kid is a very good defensive catcher at the end of his
prime and a 4th OFer who was never a big prospect
from a losing team, then YOU DON’t TrADE HIM!!!
You give him a legit chance to play everyday!!
Could his value have dropped anymore??
I dont see it. Maybe there are character issues BUT
this kid aint Elija Dukes or Josh Hamilton!

]]> By: kowalski69 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61554 kowalski69 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:40:37 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61554 jesus christ how can a trade be a failure before Day 1 of the season. I know we're all GM's, but come on give it a chance -- at least give the off season a chance to complete and look at things as a finished product. Methinks the Mets will be in 1st at the All Star break by 3 1/2 games and we'll have made a blockbuster trade at the deadline. jesus christ how can a trade be a failure before Day 1 of the season. I know we’re all GM’s, but come on give it a chance — at least give the off season a chance to complete and look at things as a finished product.

Methinks the Mets will be in 1st at the All Star break by 3 1/2 games and we’ll have made a blockbuster trade at the deadline.

]]> By: nychurch111 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61546 nychurch111 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:38:06 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/11/note-milledge-and-lo-duca-in-dc/#comment-61546 gomez? great attitude? so i guess you turned the other cheek when gomes styled after hitiing a deep fly ball foul, then in the same at-bat, dtyled again when did hit a home run. but i guess you didn't see that right? interesting gomez? great attitude? so i guess you turned the other cheek when gomes styled after hitiing a deep fly ball foul, then in the same at-bat, dtyled again when did hit a home run. but i guess you didn’t see that right?

interesting

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