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During an appearance on sports radio WEEI in Boston this morning, Curt Schilling said he thinks that the Red Sox will eventually acquire Johan Santana from the Twins.
…as i said yesterday, people connected to the Mets still seem positive, though i keep hearing that they’ll continue to ‘monitor the situation,’ which hardly invokes confidence if you ask me…at the same time, people around santana, who prefers to pitch for the Mets, are back to seeing Boston as a likely destination…so, there is a definite disconnect there…
…nevertheless, the way i keep hearing it, the Twins want Carlos Gomez and four pitchers…however, yesterday at SI.com, Jon Heyman wrote that the Twins want both gomez and Fernando Martinez, plus three pitchers, which the Mets are unwilling to do…
Meanwhile, at his blog for the Daily 
News, Adam Rubin recalls a story he wrote while in Nashville that lists Aaron Heilman as the fourth pitcher in question.
…i just assumed they were pitching ‘prospects,’ not some one from the major-league roster…but, again, it was relayed to me as just ‘four pitchers,’ so who knows…maybe it is heilman, like rubin suggests…
Yesterday, MetsBlog asked if the Mets should trade Pelfrey, Humber, Mulvey, Guerra and Gomez to the Twins for Santana, who will also require a seven-year contract, and only 58 percent of the 3,700 respondents said, ‘Yes, make the trade.’
…however, if heilman is among the four pitchers, that is a very, very different story…
…so, let’s try this again…
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If Santana was going to go to Boston, why haven’t they done it already? Haven’t the Red Sox already spelled out who they are and aren’t willing to include in the trade?
curt still thinks regan is president
If only…if only.
don regan never was president, though it didn’t stop him from acting like one.
Interesting… An Iran-Contra reference.
Probably the weirdest Secretary of Treasury I’ve ever seen.
Not to mention Reaganomics left my family broke somehow.
Obama ‘08!
We were middle class, thank you very much…
Actually got something out of Clinton — an opportunity to get money.
way to stay classy, pochemon!
If Santana goes to the Red Sox, the entire league is a cooked goose. The Bosox will be unbeatable.
That said, while I can understand not wanting to give up the entire farm (both Guerra and Martinez), I recall a post along the way likening the situation to ripping off a band-aid.
It’s tough…but for the best pitcher in the game, you have to do it.
The only hope I have is that Omar is playing chicken and testing the waters in the hopes that the Twins will pull back on their request.
It’s a dangerous game, but you can’t seen too desperate either.’
Though I think that game needs to end within the next week or so or this is going to be a lost cause.
After hearing Mad dog saying that the mets should make the deal and shouldnt let fernando martinez be the deal breaker. I started thinking about what someone poster yesterday. If we give up the farm who comes up when pedro gets hurt or when El duque goes on his 2 month vacation or when Moises is taking his much needed 8 week break and the list goes on. We need to face it we have an old team and we need those so called prospects to step in when our old stars get injured. So even though i would love to have Santana I don’t think its the wise decision to make.
Why does including Heilman over Guerra make it that much more desirable. Guerra is 18 – he is so far from making an impact. Trading Heilman deepends the hole in our bullpen. And in either case, Guerra or Heilman we are still emptying out our farm system.
Guerra ceiling is all world Ace .. Heilman is Heilman.
Guerra aint that far away.. he throws 95+ with impeccable control and has the best change up in the system (maybe including heilman) and made wonderful progress on his curveball last year… he is 18 years old and 6 foot 6 with wide shoulders and carries 200 lbs like he can add more muscle.
wonder how long it takes to blow out Matts comments section tonite
this is exactly what i said (below)… i don’t understand the logic that makes this a better deal for the Mets at all…
Because Heilman is gone after 2008. Plus there’s Sanchez, Smith and Kunz.
I have a bit of a problem with the “only 58%” line.
58% is majority….communicate that as such
While it may be a majority the reason why “only” is being used is because it’s a majority by a slim margin and not an overwhelming majority. “Only 58%” means that a lot of fans feel that it’s too high of a price to pay and regardless of whether it’s a majority or not it’s still a lot of people who would not pull the trigger on that deal. That said it’s weird to see that a deal with Heilman included instead of Guerra so far has an overwhelming majority support…doesn’t make sense to me. Why would you rather trade your set up man than last year’s draftee???
That’s fair, but 3,000+ for a survey is nothing to sneeze at. 58% based on these numbers is a convincing majority.
To your other points, it is very interesting that people are willing to give up Heilman, who is such a key cog in our bullpen and is FAR more difficult to replace (IMHO).
That being said, i’d make BOTH trades. Get Santana on this team and we are clear-cut faves.
58% of 3,000 is 1,740. 240 people over the 50-50 level is not something that i would call a “convincing majority”. Besides, something tells me that a good part of the people who voted “yes” would have said “yes” no matter who the players going to the twins would be.
I think Santana has been hyped up so much that people are ready to trade their mothers for him. If we give away our entire farm for one guy we’re going to be in serious trouble come july because our DL will look like this: at least 1 OF, 1 bench player, at least 1 starting pitcher (I would guess 2), and at least 1 reliever. At that point we’ll have no one nearly ready to bring up from minors and no one to trade away for replacements. Getting Santana at this price will mean having AA players plugged in to 4-5 other impact spots on our roster in mid-season
Yes, but the “majority” of people agreeing does not imply it’s an intelligent choice. One example is the hundreds of posts like “FIRE OMAR, WILLIE, EVERYONE!!!!” after the end of the season.
Adding the “only” to 58% just means it isn’t a no brainer that we can all agree upon.
Agreed with you there. As a person who has been visiting this site since its inception, i have to say the IQ quote has dipped considerably…..bound to happen, tho, as it grows ever more popular
ain’t that the truth
I agree as well.
For instance, Roach2’s comments are always so much more intelligent than the original Roach’s…;p
Can’t argue with you Roach2.
humber, pelfrey, and mulvey won’t be more than #3 starters. we could hope, but it won’t happen. realistically if even one of them becomes a #2 starter it would be a surprise. johan is one of, if not the best pitcher in the league. omar needs to stop playing games and do this deal.
i know people will get upset for fear of injuries and the need for yopung replacements, but the reward is far greater than the risk. its time to start winning world series.
Frankly I dont know what I would do. Its a coin toss to me. I kinda see it from both sides. I wont be mad either way. But I am cautios cuz the mets do have an old team. And these old guys WILL get injured.
The guy you are trading for is not old. He is 28. Farm systems can be restored quickly. Aces cant.
I meant pedro alou heck even beltran and delgado.
Right, but you can replace these old guys with other, cheap alternatives. If Pedro gets injured than all the more reason you need Santana. If (when) Alou gets injured you play Chavez, Marlon Anderson, or some other guy they can pick up like Nady or Mench. We arent trading anyone that has anything to do with replacing Delgado anyway. And Beltran is young and has played most of all 3 seasons with the Mets (with 2 very good ones by the way). The point is, the Mets can replace the prospects they are giving up. They cannot simulate Santana.
You cant replace guys with the potential of F-Mart and Guerra. Do you guys think these kinds of prospects grow on trees? That they draft dozens of these type players every year? Yeah, they can replenish the farm system, but with the same kind of prospects thats getting them nothing in trade value that they have now. No way that I can see they should be traded to become the favorites “on paper”. As several people say, trade Heilman, he’s going to be gone after this year anyway. Could use him to get something now then nothing later.
we should only include the fourth pitcher if they are willing to take ryan church instead of gomez
considering the fact that we traded milledge, who do you play in RF? And don’t tell me “trade for Nady” ’cause that’s just bs. Give me a real option…
i would honestly start endy before i started church. i feel he has never been given a real opp to start. yes, we would lose his bat as a pinch hitter late in the game, but we always have marlon and ruben off the bench. i dont know, lets just ask that 14 yr old what to do.
I understand that it is slightly painful to make the deal for Pelfrey, Mulvey, Humber, Guerra, Gomez, AND FMart. That deal would completely guy the farm system and possibly hurt the Mets down the road. Having said that, I would even have to make that deal. Bottom line is that all of those prospects are replaceable. Santana is not.
If the possible deal is “only” Pelfrey, Humber, Mulvey, Heilman, and Gomez it must be done immediately. No point in even waiting the Twins out because of the risk that he gets dealt somewhere else and we never have that chance again. The Mets would HAVE to just bite the bullet and pull the trigger on that deal.
Bottom line: Lets not lose sight of who we are trying to trade for. He actually is the best pitcher in the game and he’s 28. Just think about this deal from the reverse perspective. If it were 1988 and the Mets traded Gooden for 4 prospects you’ve never heard of (but are supposed to be decent), and one average set-up man, would you be happy as Met fans? Thought so.
I don’t think that Pelfrey, Humber, and Gomez are “prospects you never heard of” Each has appeared in major league games already and each is very young. That’s a lot of upside to get in return for one player, be it the best pitcher in the game…
Would you be happy if the deal was in reverse? Thats the question you have to ask yourself. If you wouldnt be, then you know its a good deal for the Mets. Simple as that.
If I’m not willing to make the deal to land him then by logical reasoning I would be happy if I were a Twins fan to make this deal…. I would gladly give up ANY player for 5 high level prospects because the law of averages says that at least one of them will become a big game player. Simple as that.
So you are telling me that you think that one of Pelfrey, Humber, Mulvey, Heilman, or Gomez will be as good as Santana? Do you think any of them will be even close? I dont.
you may be rigth zero, one of them probably will pan out, but i can guarantee you none of them will be santana. panning out is one thing, being the best pitcher in baseball is a little above that.
If the Astros had to give up their top two pitching prospects and a few other minor leaguers for a SS on the downside of his career, then how can the Mets be expected to give up less for the best Left hander in baseball? And we’ll know if Santana really wants to play for the Mets if he vetos a trade to any team OTHER than the Mets.
Unless they have zero interest in him, why can’t the Mets package Church with Gomez, Pelfrey, Humber and one of the Heilman, Mulvey, Guerra group. I don’t know why the Mets won’t give up these prospects for the BEST pitcher in baseball. Even if it means signing Shawn Green back for another year…make the damn trade. In my opinion, Pelfrey, Humber, and Mulvey, have nowhere near the ceiling of Isringhausen, Pullsipher and Wilson…and look how that turned out for the Mets. We already held on to Milledge too long, let’s not make the same mistake with the rest of these guys. the Mets have the opportunity to have Santana, Perez, and Maine anchoring the rotation for the next 7 years with Pedro for a year or two and decent #4’s and #5’s available. What is the hold up already?
I’ve been an Omar supporter since he’s gotten here, I know he’s made some bad calls, but overall I think he’s helped the franchise. But if there actually was (and that’s a big if) an offer on the table from Minnesota of Santana for a group of our prospects, and we rejected it, and Boston ends up with Santana… Oh man. That’ll put a serious dent in our relationship. In fact, it would make me more suspicious that there was influence from above on the matter. Omar isn’t dumb, why would he hold up a franchise changing trade over one prospect, it just doesn’t make sense. There’s something going on that we just aren’t aware of.
I am sure it has nothing to do with Wilpon not wanting to open up the pocketbook for the contract. Any other explanation is just silly or dumb.
The deal was right there, but 1 prospect got in the way. I’m not buying it for a second.. we’ll give you these 5 players, but not this 1 player too. Its ludicrous. The deal died on the table due to one thing: MONEY.
Enjoy the ticket increase anyway. A lot of you people are all about ownership saving cash. Too bad they don’t care about raises the ticket prices while putting a mediocre product on the field for the past 20 years.
did you ever consider that you are not as well informed as you’d like to think
i said it earlier today, this wreaks of wilpon pulling the plug. i think the mets figured they never really had a chance but would try as hard as they could to appease us, the fans. then out of no where we got this chance that no one expected us to get and we couldve made a deal and we didnt. bc wilpon never really thought hed have to face paying santana and when he saw that there was a chance he would, he put the handcuffs on omar and told omar to spin it as best he could. i feel bad for omar now bc hes gonna take all this heat and i dont think its his fault.
It’s called negotiation folks. The Mets will give up those players, they are just waiting to see if they have to. If the Red Sox up the ante, the Twins go back to the Mets and the Mets cave. Right now I think Omar is waiting to see how serious the Sox are. He’s trying to get Santana without killing our back up plan for future trades and injuries.
He is doing exactly what I would do. I would wait and see if I can get around the extra player.
that is the smart thing to do, youre absolutely right. In theory you want to give up the least amount you can and omar should find out what that is. BUT i dont think thats whats going on here, i think mr minaya told mr wilpon, “i cant get santana, i just need the go ahead to negotiate a contract”. then omar told wilpon the going price for an all world ace and wilpon almost had a heart attack said no hung up the phone counted our money then raised ticket prices.
What makes you think if the Red Sox upped the ante by including Ellsbury and Lester, that the Twins would even bother going back to the Mets? That would be getting exactly what they wanted in the first place. The deal would be done.
It would be nice to be able to keep one of the other pitchers if we give up Heilman. The thought of a spot starter is appealing. But still please just get this deal DONE!!!!!!
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SI!!!!
I’m in the “do pretty much whatever it takes to get Santana” boat, but I’m sorry, if the deal requires both F-Mart and Gomez plus 3-4 other of the notable prospects(Mulvey/Guerra/Pelfrey/etc), I think I’m passing.
Looking forwards to 09 assuming you trade both Gomez and F-Mart, say Church is so-so and they decide to go another way. Say Delgado sucks it up too and he’s gone, and say with Pelfrey/Humber/Mulvey all gone, we decide to go with El Duque as the 5th starter in 08 and he decides he’s really 42 and this is it. And that Pedro decides he’s pretty much done as being just average isn’t his deal.
You are looking at having to replace 1B, RF, LF, SP, SP, and even worse if no one really steps up in the bullpen in Heilman’s spot, or if someone does, say Sanchez, creates another RP hole.
I want Santana on the team as much as the next person and I think acquiring him pushes this team way ahead of the other NL teams, but for all those complaining about our lack of farm depth, doesn’t a trade like this just continue the problem? Pretty much scraping the top off our best prospects now, and forcing us to continue to make Type-A FA signings over the next 2-3 years to replace these players in the organization, which will make us lose our 1st rounders regardless.
If the Twins want to talk with one of the OF’s, 2-3 of the better pitchers, and 1-2 of other position players, I’ll talk, but that is just way too much.
well none of those prospects play 1B so thats moot you have to replace that anyway. fmart isnt major league ready for 09 so youll still have to replace a corner spot so thats moot. and replacing 2 SP is usually bad but if the other 3 are maine perez and santana its not that hard as youre looking for a 4 and 5 (usually not type A FAs) as opposed to a 1 and 2 (type A FAs) which we would be looking for next year if pedro leaves and since we wouldnt have santana. next years pitching FA class is diminishing by the day i think sabathia is the only full fledged FA left since i think sheets and penny have options. so either we have santana maine perez and 2 spots to fill going into 09 or we have perez maine pelfrey and 2 spots going into 09. which one do you think is better?
this trade gives the Twinks
the CF they covert who has some ML experience
A setup man with Big time ML experience who can slot into the closer role for a traded Nathan
Pelf and Humber who were both high draft picks and arguiably ready for the show.
A quality Arm in Mulvey who may be 6 months away and has 4 pitches with good control.
seeing how the dopey Stros gave up 5 for a declining Tejada including two top prospects and a player who was a top prospect last year b4 playing in the show .. Omar has to put these 5 together and pull the trigger and hope Santana’s arm doesnt fall off.
This trade is turning out to be eerily similiar to the Frank Viola trade. Now granted Santana is a better pitcher – two Cy Youngs to Violas one at the time (and Viola was coming off a horrific season) – but man, it’s like Aaron Heilman is the Rick Aguilera in this trade.
Viola = Barry Zito
Viola does NOT = Johan Santana
thank you. if santana was on any other team no one would make the comparison.
Saying Viola=Zito is just plain unfair.
Someone shove a sock with red paint into Schilling’s mouth.
For the same reasons I was in favor of getting Santana in yesterday’s poll:
The addition of an ace would make the Mets NL favorites for the next few years, with the nucleus of Reyes, Wright, Beltran and Santana – and the spending power to continue to add necessary other parts.
As much as I hate to gut the farm system, the organization has the $ resources to replace a number 3-4-5 pitcher (even if it means overpaying). If we still have a young OF (Gomez or F-Mart), I can’t see not making this deal.
Additionally, if they don’t get Santana it increasingly is looking like wouldn’t be frontrunners for either Bedard or Haren.
I’ll take my chances on rebuilding the farm system vs having a dominant team on the field for the next few years.
Scr*w Schilling…he’s a two face m*ron. I hope he’s on “the list” after that ridiculous “testimony” he gave to Congress. That being said you cannot let Boston beat us out for yet ANOTHER player…enough is enough..We can in 2nd to them w/ Lugo, Matsuzaka, etc.- don’t let them beat you for Santana Omar…give up the phone…Enough is enough with them already. Just give up the farm, who cares- whatever it takes…Besides, They already have a $175 million payroll. Time to bump us ours to 130-140 million. We bring in just as much if not more revenue than them.
actually, we don’t bring in as much as them. they have fenway roush racing as well as all of the other fenway related stuff. we are close, but not quite up to their level.
DO IT, Omar!
I agree with you Jay- I am sure Freddie Coupons, that cheap b*stard, is putting the “kabosh” on this because he doesn’t want to put out the money for Santana. Guarantee you.
I hate when players talk about players their teams are their to trade/sign. They don’t need to say anything.
didnt jose reyes just say how good the mets would be with santana
…I like the idea of getting rid of Heilman…he is one of those guys who every time he walks on the field your heart skips a beat…well, like Mota, these are the guys I don’t want Willie having to make a choice about bringing in.
…once you have Santana…you move El Duque into the bullpen in Heilman’s place…simple as that…
…maybe even grab Prior and call it a day…
I think the points guy would give you a minus for this comment… if you need me to explain why then you just shouldn’t be posting here…
What can I say, Heilman has done nothing for me since he has been here…it would be a lot easier to replace him than to find an ace…
…so, my question to you is how long are you willing to wait to win a WS and do you really think one of these guys will be the one to help that happen? Will Reyes/Wright still be on the team at that point? I’ll pass on finding out and try to do something now.
If you think this trade will give the Mets the WS you’re out of your mind.
I’m not saying it will, but if you sit around and wait for everything to happen without making moves…you’re gonna be sitting around for a long time…
where to start? maybe you like “the idea of getting rid of Heilman” but that might be because you don’t value a 3.03 era, 1.07 whip, and a 0.87 HR/9IP reliever who can appear in 81 games for you. that’s half our schedule. pretty good production, especially considering how ineffective the rest of our bullpen was last year. maybe he’s done nothing for you, but he did a lot for the mets last year down the stretch, with era of 2.84, 2.31 and 2.04 in July, Aug, and Sep/Oct, while the rest of the bullpen was imploding.
el duque as a replacement? can he even suit up for 81 games without injuring himself? please. whether he can get the job done in any capacity coming out of the pen is a very open question. there is no way he will be able to set up half our games.
mark prior? his next mlb relief appearance will be his first. i don’t think he’s even done rehabbing from shoulder surgery–I do know the cubs are hoping he can be ready to pitch in may. and yet you think he’s a superior set-up guy to a proven reliever like heilman. unreal.
You’re right…when you put it that way (above)…it does not make sense to be that down on the guy…it’s hard to forget the bad days sometimes. I also looked at the numbers last night too and my original comment was quite ignorant…it won’t happen again, normally I think a lot clearer than that…this whole Santana thing has my in a tail spin.
…that said, I still think if Omar is going to do something it needs to be big or it shouldn’t be done at all…i.e. if he is going to start next season with these guys and throw some of the “prospects” into the mix to see what they can do at the big league level, then so be it…but have the conviction one-way or the other.
Wrap it up Omar . . . Lets do it. Heilman for Santana . . . . .and Morneau and Mauer. What its Fair.
make the deal for santana, keep guerra, sign dotel (no draft compensation) and call it a day. bullpens are crap shoots anyway and we have alot more arms than we did going into last year (muniz, collazo, kunz, sanchez possibly padilla, on top of the usual suspects)
*YAWN* If Santana is going to the Red Sox…it would have happened already. I didn’t know Schilling was their GM now…how ignorant of me. Wake me up when Santana is coming to Queens.
if we are stupid enough not to start Heilman, the last Met with a complet game 1 hitter, package him with Gomez & the Pelfrey/Humber dynamic duo and I’d rather not Mulvey, but if we have to, Mulvey
get it done Omar
NOW
I can’t believe 68% of people at the time of this posting support this trade.
That’s crazy. The Collapse has people all nutty.
ABSOLF***INLUTELY YES!! If Heilman has to be included, by all means MAKE THE TRADE ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gomez, Humber, Pelfrey, Heilman and someone not named Kevin Mulvey. However, since we’re giving up 5 players, what is the possibility that Minnesota at least throw in one player from their side? Rather than include Mulvey, how about Parnell? or Niese? Just someone who is not Mulvey or Guerra!!
There’s a wise old ancient saying that applies to baseball: An ace in hand is worth two in the busth.
That’s why they need to make this trade. With or without Guerra, Heilman, F-Mart or anyone else not named Reyes, Wright, or Beltran (and maybe Maine and Perez). Don’t let a prospect hold up the deal. Guerra may only end up to be a #3 at best. You can’t project an ace at this point in his career.
It’s up to Johan. He can steer the negotiations his way if he wants. All he has to do is have Greenberg tell the Twins he’ll only sign an extension with the Mets now, and he will be a Met. Eventually.
Reyes has to do his part and get in Greenberg’s ear!
We’re not projecting him as an ace, just about every scout and talent evaluator is doing that. People who do it for a living. As for Santana only wanting to be a Met, what makes you say that? You think if he gets traded to the World Champion Red Sox and they give him the money he’s looking for he’s going to be disappointed? If it comes down to going where the money is or playing for a winner, wouldn’t he be getting both there?
Heilman simply cannot be replaced, he cannot be included in this trade. Those who disagree might need to watch more baseball games….
Are we the gNats? Their pitcher with the most wins came out of the ‘pen, not ours. I really like Heilman, but I’d rather have a dominant ace for 8 innings once every five days, than a good relief one inning every three days….
Yeah and whos gonna pitch setup? Scooby Doo?
67% of you guys WANT this deal???
Turn the hype channel off, its a getting to your heads.
Even though is Santana, i think is WAY too much to give, if the twins can return at least a decent first base or catching prospect, thats another story.
But 5 players for 1 i think is way too much.
I know its tempting, but hold on to your guns Omar.
Im a first time poster and heres a trade i think you can not refuse if your the twins Santana for Gomez , Pelfrey ,Smith , and eathir Mulvey or Guerra and eathir Church or Gotay
Then to solve the Right field problume i no everyone is going to knock me on this one but i hear the angles are looking to trade Gary Matthews Jr and that it wont take much trade Mike carp and 2 other prospects that are equal to the ones they traded for Castillo or sign Geoff Jenkins and kevin Mench to plantoon then sign livan and Jeremy Affeldet. This scenerio seams very reasonible to me
Listen, all of you guys can discuss this topic for hours,days or years. All you can do is just wait and see what the organization does to acquire JOHAN SANTANA. You are all wasting your time making your FANTASY trades. Just sit back and wait, and if nothing happens, so be it. Only the ” TRUE MET FANS ” will still love the team. Being General Manager isn’t the easiest job out there, you have to deal with alot of pressure from everywhere including the most important ” us – THE FANS ” Let Omar do his job.
You have to realize thousands of Mets, Boston, Yankee and Twins fans are doing the same thing we are right now on dozens of other blogs/forums. What we’re doing is no different. It’s human nature to speculate and express opinions. And who can’t have an opinion on this matter?
I will still love the team if the Mets don’t get Santana, but I will be mad at Omar if it were to come out that he could have gotten him for a package such as Gomez, Humber, Pelfrey, Heilman, and one from Mulvey/Guerra/F-Mart … but refused to pull the trigger.
The Mets have 3 first round picks in June. If they draft wisely, they can re-stock the farm system fairly quickly.
I will still love the team but I will be really pissed if we dont get Santana. First I thought we had no chance because of lack of talent but now that we CAN get him for 5 prospects who MAY work out we better get him. And it better not be that we dont get him because the Wilpons wont pay either or I will really be pissed. No reason this cant get done. He is the best pitcher in the game and not one of our prospects will ever come close to his talent. Its a no-brainer.
Sorry i made a few spelling errors its Angels and either
I don’t frickin get it…
5 for 1 doesn’t make sense…remember that Santana’s contract is up after this year. There’s too much risk that he’d just walk away.
If he still had a couple years on current contract – maybe, but I’d hold on to pelfrey and gomez.
If I were the twins, you bet I’d do this deal…he’s walking next year either way.
If a deal is struck, it is contingent on whether the team who acquires him can sign him to an extension. The Mets will be given a 72 hour negotiation period. During that time frame, an extension will be proposed … if Santana and the Mets can not agree to something, the entire deal is a moot point. If that were to happen, he would still be property of the Minnesota Twins. He wouldn’t waive his no-trade clause without an extension.
So basically, if Santana gets traded … he is good as gone.
He will be locked up, no doubt about it.
metsdude13 ur 100% right how are we having any effect on omar’s desicion to me it seems like he does not care what we think he hasent made a move that has pleased the fans this yr
example trading milledge
does any1 like my moves i said earlier
THIS IS BS… You make this Trade… who knows if anyone of these clowns will turn into good baseball players, we KNOW Johan is the best pitcher in baseball… As far as outfielders.. you can ALWAYS buy quality outfielders… not the case with picthers (obviously, look at this year)
Let’s do this already and bring October baseball, even better a ring, back to Shea, one last time. I could think of no better send off to Shea, no better story for years to come as we raise the flag at CItiFIeld, its PR gold, its money in the bank, its why we’re fans.
I’m sorry, let’s just give them all the blue chippers we have. For one pitcher, I don’t care if it’s Cy Young, we don’t want to turn into the Yankees. And……we need bullpen help, how can you toss in Heilman.
All you guys need your head examined. It would be just our luck to trade all the blue chippers, pitchers and outfielders and then he comes up with arm trouble. No sorry, I wouldn’t do it.
I love Mulvey & Pelfrey. I think Heilman is a great player. But they’re worth getting rid of for Johan. Gomez and Humber are trash to me. They both look like one trick ponies. AAAA players.
I know, I know, Pelfrey is a world of talent and this year’s 5 starter, and that Mulvey will be a help down the stretch, and I know that Heilman was a big part of the bullpen. But the Mets have 2 starting pitching prospects that I personally think could be plus versions of Pelfrey and Mulvey. They are Guerra and Niese.
Of course, we need some backup plans if Martinez or Hernandez get injured.
Matt Wise and Freddy Garcia.
Get Kevin Mench or So Taguchi for two years to hit the lefties for Church and to replace Alou.
Rotation: Santana, Martinez, Maine, Perez, Hernandez
Bullpen: Schoeneweis, Feliciano, Wise, Sosa, Smith, Sanchez & Wagner
Lineup: Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Alou, Delgado, Church/Taguchi (I think Taguchi is more probable), Schneider
Garcia comes in the last 2 months of the season and helps out Hernandez and becomes part of the September 1 roster.
If u r the Mets u have to do the deal of
Gomez, Heilman, Mulvey, Pelfrey, Humber
Prospects do not always pan out(all of the time)
That being said i would not trade guerra or martinez..
if u could trade pelfrey gomez heilman humber mulvey
and sign johan for 7 years u have to do that deal the best pitcher in baseball just enetering his prime!!! come on Omar dont screw this up and take the deal who knows how these prsopetcs will do and we know how johan will do we have 2 first round picks 18th 22nd and 34th for the supplimental and we get to keep martinez and guerra (well i hope we can keep Martinez) its a great deal for us and besides we always sign the dominicans and all of them do were fine with prospects we restock all the time
dont get so taguchi he sucks
Willie Randolph needs to re-take Managerial Decisions 101… that way the bullpen doesn’t get overused and you can get your starters within the 200IP range so that they are not blowing gas like Sabathia and Carmona did in the post-season.
ALMOST 4,000 VOTES! 65% SAY YES TO THE DEAL! MATT, CAN YOU PLEASE PASS THIS INFO TO OMAR SO HE KNOWS HIS LOYAL FANS WANT SANTANA NO MATTER WHAT IT TAKES. PLEASE! THEN IF HE TRADES THE 5 OR 6 PROSPECTS NEEDED TO GET HIM AND IT FAILS AS A DEAL HE CAN SAY HEAH THE FANS WANTED IT AND WE CANT PUT THE BLAME ON HIM. WE NEED THIS DEAL SO BAD TO RE-ENERGIZE THIS FRANCHISE AND THE FANBASE. IT WILL ERASE THE COLLASPE OF LAST SEASON FROM OUR MINDS AND GIVE US SUCH HOPE FOR NEXT YEAR. ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS SANTANA AND A NEW DECENT RF SUCH AS NADY. THANK YOU AND SORRY FOR THE CAPS BUT I WANTED TO SHOW MY PASSION FOR THIS DEAL.
If Omar makes moves based upon media or fan pressure rather than good baseball sense he should be fired. He should do all he can to dissuade the Wilpons from forcing such moves.
From the posting I would venture that the vast majority of posters are 20 years old or younger and thus have not witnessed a Mets team with a certifiable ace and believe that one will cure all that ails this team. They refuse to look at history. Historically the presence of a great pitcher in your rotation guarantees nothing. And in all honesty Santana never put the Twins on his back and took them to the Promised Land as Hershiser did for the Dodgers in 1988.
Trading away the farm removes any trading chips or call-ups the Mets would have to fill holes on the team or replace injured players for the next few years. The salary they would have to pay Santana would make it difficult for the Wilpons not to break the budget if they were forced to purchase players to fill the gaps via FA (assuming said players are available). And, honestly, I can’t see the Wilpons exceeding budget.
BTW There was no guarantee that Wright and Reyes would turn out the way they did and what would you people be saying now if they were traded away?
I am a 30 year old Met fan and a huge follower of baeball and its history. I realize one ace doesnt win you a champioship but we have the rest of the pieces already. We are one ace away from getting to the “promised land” If the rest of our team wasnt that good I wouldnt want to trade away our young kids for Santana. I would want to re-build. But our team is old minus a few players and we need to try to win it all now. Santana gives us a great opportunity to do such. Which of our prospects do you see as ever being even close to Santana in talent? Name one. Also please dont make rash judgements about me and my knowledge based on one post you read. Santana may not have carried the Twins on his back to a championship but he has gotten them to the playoffs for many years. They just havent had enough talent around him. He cant do it alone and on the Mets he wouldnt have to. Cant you see him winning 20 to 25 games for the next 3 to 4 years in the NL and in a pitcher friendly park? Maybe you are content with a decent team and first round exits but I’m not. With the team as it is now constituted we wont win the World Series. Sorry we just wont.
Totally agree with you BSmitty, well said. We need Santana and anyone who watched last year’s team knows it. Your right, the fact is we cannot go into this season with the team we have right now. We need to make a big move and this is the perfect time to do it.
If the team would have signed a Lilly or Meche last year or Willie would have used Pelfrey and/or Humber in the bp to spell some of the overworked pitchers the Mets would have made the post season last year. But add Santana to last years team and you are definitely in the playoffs but you still may not beat the incredibly hot Rockies and definitely don’t beat a still superior Red Sox team.
My last post was not directed at you specifically but in general to the majority of the posters. The judgment I make is based on the nature and tone of most of the posts here and I am not alone in this opinion. The only one in response to your post was the one where I said Omar should not make moves based upon fan or media pressure.
BTW Frank Viola was to have led the Mets to the Promised Land (and at the time the Mets got him he was considered one of the better pitchers in baseball) but instead the players the Twins got eventually gave them a World Championship. And if you get Santana but the bp fails again you will still not win. Because of the age of some of the players on this team there is still the potential of multiple breakdowns and after that trade there will be almost no way to fill the holes so the team still may not win it all. And if the Mets do not win it all this year or next it could be many more years before they contend again. What I want is a consistently winning franchise and that has to be built from within.
BTW even with Santana I don’t think they could beat the Red Sox, Indians, Tigers, Angels or Yankees in the WS.
Well maybe they beat those teams you mentioned or maybe they dont but I for one would at least like to get the opportunity to try. We havent won a ring since 1986. Thats a long time. I would rather win a world series this year or next and take a step back after for a few years then win consistently for many years yet never win it all. Its about winning the championship and its been too long for us. Also I am sorry but I completly disagree with Viola-Santana comparisons. Viola was no way near Santana is talent wise. Not even close.
I can see your pov. It has been a long time since the Mets won anything. But even with Santana this team is not as good as the ’86 team while the AL teams I mentioned are better than the ’86 Red Sox. So it could end up being 2000 all over again.
While I agree that Santana has more talent than Viola had, in 1988 Viola with the Twins pitched 255.3 innings and was 24 and 7 with a 2.64 era and his WHIP was 1.136 and won the Cy Young. With the Mets in 1990, a year the Mets won 91 games and finished 2nd in the East Viola pitched 249.7 innings, was 20 and 12 with a 2.67 era and his WHIP was 1.150 and finished 3rd in the Cy Young voting. Those are not shabby numbers. BTW in the 2nd half last year Santana was 5 and 7 with a 4.04 era. You also have to question why the Yankees and Red Sox are backing off. Remember these 2 teams are aggressively competitive with each other and you would think landing Santana would be a major acquisition for one or the other.
I want the Mets to be a perennial playoff team and the only way you do that in today’s climate is by building from within, acquiring a sufficient number of top prospects so you can make a deal for a Santana without leaving the system barren and judiciously acquiring free agents.
paying online survey…
Wow! This was a really enlightening article….
Atomoxetine….
Atomoxetine….
agreed .. i voted yes on this one and no yesterday..
may want to swap out one of the PelfHumMul triumvirate for someone younger not named Deolis
Are you all kidding? You would rather hold onto a 18 year old in single a than an established eighth inning guy who is crucial to this years bullpen? Wow i think that you are all Santana crazy at this point. Giving up the entire farm is bad enough, but giving up an established major league pitcher is even worse. He is a great pitcher but lets be realistic. 5 players for a guy who pitches every five days is silly, ridiculous and crazy. I can see a package of Maine, Gomez and Humber. I can see a package of gomez, Humber, pelfrey and Smith. I can see another couple packages working…..but come on, the Red Sox did not offer anything that was out of this world and so you know that the Twins will come back to us before they make any trade. The only trade we cant beat at this point is one with Lester and Ellsbury in it, and they dont seem willing to offer that. We can beat Hughes and Cabrera when the yanks inevitably get back into the thing, and we can beat the sox if they only put a pitcher of a centerfielder deal together. And we can do it with less than the trade suggested above. I never thought i would say this but thank God Omar is running the team. He is at least thinking a little bit.
These Red Sox say a lot of things.
Remember when Ortiz said “Pedro ain’t going to no Mets”
Maybe Schilling has similar forecasting abilities.
Oh please don’t give him that much credit. The old phrase “When a donkey brays it’s not always saying something important.” When a famous person speaks they could be full of bunk. Also, all he said was that he thinks it’ll happen, not that it will.
Curt Schilling is awesome! A rare player who actually speaks his mind and actually plays to win more than the money. I wish the Mets could have some fight like Curt. Is it a crime to discuss what your team is doing? No it isn’t and after what Curt has brought to Boston he can say all he wants for all I care.
If we could keep Fernando Martinez and still acquire Santana, it’s a great deal regardless of who else is involved
Gomez or Martinez and three pitchers or no Gomez or Martinez and four pitchers….. Lets keep it reasonable Twins……
For some reason I’ve heard the phrase “one in a million” at least 4-5 times this off season which makes me think that it’s over utilized. To put so much faith in an 18-year old is insane. How can you be comparing him to Kazmir when this guy isn’t being valued (as of right now) higher than Pelfrey?
If guerra is this freaking good, why not send him, Gomez, and Heilman and be done with it. We still have F-mart, we still have Pelf and Mulvey and even Humber, and we still have enough depth that the farm wont fall apart…..if Guerra is this good, the Twins must know too.
wow, so i didnt know guerra was supposed to be this good. makes me have to think a lot more. im so confused.
I remember that distinctly.
+5
i think ive been one of the hardest to sell on the santana trade in the forum..
i wouldnt trade fmart or guerra in any of these packages under any circumstances.
heilman i feel is a goner after next year and replacable int eh 8th inning..
Gomez i can live without and the three pitchers are replaceable int he minors..
you have to give something to get something and while ive consistently been against giving up the farm and 150 mil for a pitcher im willing to roll the dice and give it a shot with pedro, delgado, alou etc not getting any younger
Exactly bro. Heilman is extremely important. if we get this trade to go through we are obviously favorites next year. why blow the bullpen, our other weakpoint, just to solve the SP situation. trade the younger pitchers. keep heilman. win world series.
The thing is, Heilman is all but gone after next year. Arbitration eligible this year, and his contract expires next year. He wants to be a starter, and think about how much $$ he’ll charge to stay a setup man?
Trade him while we can get something in return.
unless they were talking about 4-5million people.
well you know what they say if youre 1 in a million theres 1000 people in china just like you.
And when he gets to be Pelfrey’s age they’ll be saying “Pelfrey who?” In a few years you wont be able to trade pitchers like Ollie and Maine for this kid. Makes me think you would have traded Doc Gooden before he made it as well.
deolis guerra and fernando martinez arent coming up for injured players unless all 5 starters and all 5 OFers are down at the same time.
oh.. and I wouldnt trade John Maine in any of these packages.. he’s young and controllable and won 15 games last year
if you can get santana and keep guerra and fmart thats a steal. replenish the farm at the draft, sign dotel, sign a livan or a jennings or someone as the 5th starter move duque to the pen, possibly pick up a kevin mench or brad wilkerson to be the 4/5th OFer and your done.
Duque can’t pitch out of the pen. If that’s the way you want to go with him, you might as well release him.
If Duque fizzles out about 3/4’s of the way through the season while pitching 5 or 6 innings once every 5 days, how do you expect him to hold up when having to be ready to go every other night. Just the preparation of having to be ready that often is going to put added stress on him.
Duque has to be a starter for this team or else he is worthless to us.
He’s got a big mouth but I’d take him on my team any day. He’s got 3 rings, and he was a big part of getting all 3. How many players can make that claim?
I don’t know well enough, but how is it characterized that he “plays to win more than the money.”
i love him as a pitcher and a competitor. and he used to amuse me with some of his comments in the media. but im sick of him talk now. he talked way too much leading up to the congressional hearings and then said nothing worthwhile. he basically just made himself look like the fool that he really is.
Let’s start with Heilman. Who replaces him? And please don’t say Duaner Sanchez, I will have to hold my laughter in. He simply cannot be counted on. Anything from him is gravy.
After that one (there is no one to replace Heilman in-house or on the free agent market, and there certainly wouldn’t be any pieces left in the system to trade for a high-end bullpen arm)…
The Mets rotation is not exactly held up with 2 sturdy arms in Pedro and El Duque, who replaces them in the rotation when they go to the DL during the season, as both are almost assuredly to do so?
The Mets have now traded away #6, #7, and #8 on the depth chart.
When he was a free agent briefly this season, he had multi-year offers worth more than what he signed for with the Red Sox. He actually took a big pay cut to come back to the Red Sox too. (about 4 Million?). He signed for just $8 million. Which I think is what Glavine is getting from the Braves. Schilling is worth more than Glavine IMO.
And he signed for just 1 year with the Red Sox. From what I gather, he left probably around 10 million on the table.
I think it would be funny as Hell if Schilling winds up on the Mitchell Report tomorrow. That would be classic.
And if he doesn’t, then good for him. But I am sure that if he is not named by Mitchell, he is going to have a lot to say about those who are and will probably get beaned in his first trip to the plate during interleague and go on the DL.
My personal opinion is that while Schilling is apparently the type of guy everyone loves when he is on their team, and he indeed was a large part of Boston’s success, the Red Sox did him a huge favor by bringing him back for 2008. He is clearly not the pitcher he once was.
I don’t like either trade. They’re both simply too much, and these packages are OCEANS more than anything else the Twins have on the table.
I am bullish on Guerra as well. He’s a deal-breaker for me. I love his delivery and changeup. I saw him in The Futures game and was really enamored with his potential.
I understand that the market perception of Mets prospects is too low right now, and that thusly the Mets have to overpay in order to get in the game for Santana, but I think the cost is most definitely prohibitive when you trade away 4 good-to-great prospects and your 8th inning guy for Santana, as great as he is.
You just can’t trade away your entire young starting pitching depth for one guy. Take at least one of their names out and I start to consider this proposal a lot more.
Heilman should really have a ton of value on the market. Do you see the contracts that mediocre relievers are getting these days?
i think the mets would miss heilman but the guy is gone after this year. he wants to start and will get that chance in 09. might as well trade him now while we can. you can sign a dotel to relieve, no hes not close to heilman but he can somewhat help replace him. also id prefer the mets signing a cheaper 5th starter like jason jennings or even livan to 2 years this way duque can go to the pen and maybe be less injury prone.
Sanchez is an unknown. He hasn’t pitched so long and no one knows how effective he’ll be in 2008. Dotel hasn’t pitched over 50 innings in over 3 years. If Feliciano replaces Heilman, who replaces Feliciano?
The point being it’s not always easy to replace a good setup reliever. But I have no problem putting Heilman in a deal if the Twins want him.
Okay, we have discussed Sanchez and why you can’t count on him?
Dotel? He’s an enormous injury risk. When is the last time he stayed healthy. He would be effective if he was healthy, but how on earth could you count on that?
Feliciano? He barely was able to handle 3 months of the 7th inning role until the Mets had to completely limit his use because he was “overworked”. Willie had to basically use him as a LOOGY for the last 2 or 3 months of the season to try and keep him healthy and effective. I have no confidence he could handle the 8th inning role. He’s not durable enough.
whose 3.50 era are you talking about? can’t be heilman. his was 3.03, which went well with his 1.07 whip and his 0.84 HR/9IP.
Yes, Sanchez and Dotel could do the job, or they could be bombs. They both have injury issues, and Dotel has been really up and down during his career.
Feliciano might be able to do the job. He’s really come along the last couple years.
I like Schilling a lot, always have, but one quibble with your post , I don’t think the fact that he or any player has X rings is any measure of anything in such a team game as baseball. It’s sportswriter hyperbole.
Normally I’d agree — like when someone says Jeter has x number of rings — but in certain instances I think it’s fair to give a player credit for making a significant contribution to his team’s championship. Schilling is such a player He played significant roles in 2001, 2004, and 2007.
gotta agree. I am one of heilman’s biggest fans around these parts, but he’s good as gone in 2010 the way the mets have treated him, and so he may be worth more to us in a trade for a true ace than he’ll ever be coming out of the pen.
dotel and sanchez have to be regarded as long shots to be as effective in the 8th as aaron was last year. heilman was really consistent, and he killed in september when the rest of the team was folding like a pup tent. but we may have to take that chance, given the opportunity to get johan. i voted no yesterday and yes today as well.
gotta hang on to guerra and f-mart, as future chips if nothing else. that package matt polled us on yesterday was worth a lot more broken up than this one. there was a ton of trade value there, especially if we give these guys another year to develop. good investment oppty there.
You cannot pass up on getting Santana so that you can hang on to unprovens like Guerra and Martinez. That makes little sense when you are playing in a market like NY.
Who says Guerra is irreplaceable? You can only project what he may become. It’s a crapshoot.
I would say Santana is irreplaceable.
guerra’s value now lies in his projectability. he will have much much more value after another year of development. now is a terrible time to trade him.
Remember how much stock fans put into Petit? Now I realize Guerra is a much different pitcher with better stuff, but what if he turns out like Petit?
And with all due respect Metsdude, are any so-called experts projecting him to be an ace?
Just because someone ranks him as the Mets’ #2 prospect doesn’t mean they think he’ll be an ace. And the BA analyst doesn’t even use the word “ace” or anything close. It’s still just a long long way from where Guerra is in his development right now to ace status. I realize he could become an ace, but it’s no sure thing.
Grow up kid, How old are you? 13?
yea, but they dont need too. we would still have endy for the OF and we can sign this year’s version of chan ho park, hopefully just better.
Why in God’s name would you even want to consider having to sign “this year’s version of chan ho park, hopefully just better”?! Wasn’t last year’s version bad enough for you? It was for me.
i take that back. i was unaware how good guerra is projecting to be. this is a tough decision, but i would have to say do it this way.
You wouldn’t want to swap any of those three guys out if they are all necessary to get the trade done. It is quite possible that without all three of the guys you named the Twins would stop talking to the Mets regarding Santana.
for what its worth, i voted yes today as well. i just hope people understand what we’re giving up in heilman. he was money the 2nd half of the season last year–and he pitched in half our games. he really was the team’s most reliable arm. replacing him will not be easy, but you don’t get a lot of chances at a guy like Santana.
i really think that if the twins were ready to do the trade matt polled us on today, it would already be a done deal.
I agree and disagree.
What if we traded Wright & Reyes? ;-)
Anyways, let’s analyze the deal:
Gomez is so highly touted by other teams. I just don’t see him blossoming into much. He’s such a huge risk/reward guy. We already have a team core, which would be reinforced with Santana. Let Gomez go while his value is high.
Heilman is a great setup guy, but he’s eligible for arbitration, his contract expires next year, and he has a burning desire to be starter. Another guy the Mets would benefit from letting go.
Pelfrey is a great talent, but not proven. And when you get an ace in return…
I just don’t see Humber blossoming into much. Even the optimistic think that he’ll be basically what Carlos Silva is. That’s his potential. It would be worth it to deal him.
Gomez, Heilman, Pelfrey & Humber.
I wouldn’t like to let Mulvey go – A good pitcher, innings eater, middle of rotation guy, our safety if MArtinez or Hernandez get injured. But if he’s a sticking point — hell, there are guys we can get to be safeties. Garcia and Wise.
Still at kid